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Practical Chats for Intentional Living
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Monday May 15, 2023
Monday May 15, 2023
Top Ten from 2022: #10 Things I Wish I'd Known Before my Child Became a Teenager with Dr. Gary Chapman
"They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness." Hebrews 12:10 (NIV)
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
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What are some ways we can begin teaching our teenagers skills that will benefit them for the rest of their lives?
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What are some regrets you've heard parents of teens express over the years?
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Will you elaborate on ways to partner increasing independence with increasing responsibility for our teen?
Gary Chapman, Ph.D.—author, speaker, pastor, and counselor—has a passion for people, and for helping them form lasting relationships. Chapman is a well-known marriage counselor and director of marriage seminars. The 5 Love Languages® is one of Chapman’s most popular titles, topping various bestseller charts for years, selling over thirteen million copies, and has been on the New York Times best-sellers list continuously since 2007. Chapman has been directly involved in real-life family counseling for more than 30 years, and his nationally syndicated radio programs air nationally on Moody Radio Network and over 400 affiliate stations. For more information visit www.5lovelanguages.com
Other Episode Mentioned:
5 Love Languages with Dr. Gary Chapman
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Things I Wish I'd Known Before My Child Became a Teenager
The 5 Love Languages of Teenagers
A Teen's Guide to the 5 Love Languages
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday May 08, 2023
Monday May 08, 2023
205. Power of Movement with Alisa Keeton (Revelation Wellness)
Matthew 6:10 (NKJV) "Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven."
**Transcription Below**
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
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What are some practical ways our bodies can be a part of the solution for moving through past pain and beginning a healing journey?
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In what ways do you see science and faith fitting together perfectly?
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You say that our bodies and brains are for us, but how would you encourage someone who feels the opposite?
Alisa Keeton is a wholehearted pursuer of God's love in heart, mind, soul, and strength. A fitness professional for over 30 years, she is the founder of Revelation Wellness, a nonprofit ministry that uses physical and mental health practices to spread the gospel by inviting participants to become integrated and whole beings through biblical teachings, on-line events, productions, and in-person retreat experiences. Alisa is the author of The Wellness Revelation and Heir to the Crown and hosts the popular Revelation Wellness podcast with over 7 million downloads. Alisa lives in Phoenix with her husband, Simon, and they have two children, Jack and Sophia. As a family, they are on a mission to change the world with the kind and courageous love of God.
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at Lemanproperties.com, or connect with them on Facebook.
Alisa Keaton, founder of Revelation Wellness, is my guest today. She's going to share how we can utilize the science of the way God created us so that we can be transformed by His love, we can process our stress and emotions in effective ways, and how we can love others in a powerful way on earth as it is in heaven.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Alisa.
Alisa Keeton: Thank you, Laura. I'm really excited to be here.
Laura Dugger: Will you just start by sharing a bit of your story, leading all the way up to becoming the founder of Revelation Wellness? [00:01:23]
Alisa Keeton: Yeah, it's a good one. Let's see how concise I can be. Being that I'm 52 years old, I have a lot of story to tell. Well, I took my first fitness class in 1985 when I was 14 years old. It was back then called Aerobics. You went to a little strip mall where there might be a little room or office place where they cleared out all the furniture, and it was a place for a bunch of 80s moms to come.
I was 14, and my friend's mom invited me and my friend to go with her to her class. For some reason, I said yes. I was always very active in my life.
At that time, at 14, for me, I was going through what most 14-year-olds go through, is this question of, am I pretty? Am I valuable? Am I worthy? You start to question and make those transitions from childhood into young adulthood.
My home life at that time was pretty unstable. [00:02:25] There was a lot of dysfunction. My father had addictions. My mother was codependent. They were very busy chasing around their own dysfunction. I felt pretty lost in the mix of my upbringing and my home.
Physical activity always felt like something of a relief for me, a release, an escape, kind of a way to just be free. My body always expressed or felt most at home, who I am when I was moving my body. So when I took an aerobics class, I laid there at the end of that class, cooled down. I remember having tears coming out of my eyes. That had not happened before.
There was something about the collective community of being with other people, other moms that were encouraging me. You're trying to encourage one another. It's a joyful experience. It's silly. It's a freedom experience for me. I enjoyed every moment of it.
Little tears ran out my eyes and I just had this sense that God was with me. [00:03:28] I really didn't have a relationship with God then, but I felt a sense of everything was going to be all right. That's all I knew is that everything was going to be all right. There was this knowing. It didn't come from myself. It was like this voice. I didn't know to call it God, but I now can see it as that.
I started going back to that class every week. I would try to bum a ride with my friend's mom, or I would get my parents to take me. I loved it. It felt like a little place of escape.
Then I really started doing more fitness, looking for places to go do it. I joined another gym because it was the 80s, and a lot of people were doing different things, bodybuilding, all this kind of early 80s health. Really, this pursuit of you could change your body with fitness became a focus for me.
I started doing that, my body responded to it. I started getting attention for it. It all started working out, like, oh, this is the thing that I was made to do. Yet, it really became an idol for me. I did get into the fitness world. [00:04:29] I did start helping people.
I became a personal trainer. I've been in the health and fitness for over 31 years. But I did it initially as a way of trying to find my own identity, value, and worth. I could really help people. Truth be told, I could help people change their body. Even today, Laura, you want to lose some weight, I can give you the math equation.
What I ended up noticing over the years as I was growing in my love for fitness and helping people in their health and their body health was two things would always occur with anyone I would try to help. Not all the time, but primarily majority of people would become obsessive about the thing that they were changing or wanting for their body. They would just become so self-absorbed. It was never enough. They would pinch another inch. How do we change this? How do I get rid of this? I could see them critiquing themselves as never satisfied.
Then the other side of the coin would be people would get going off to a good start, investing hundreds and thousands of dollars with me to buy packages or to just be a consistent accountability for them and give them a plan and then they would fall off. [00:05:38] They would just stop coming. There was this neglect and obsess pattern that I saw continually happening.
Then in my own life, although my body wasn't necessarily... it wasn't not responding, I definitely fell in the obsess category, but I was at least able to see this is not going anywhere fruitful. I started to fall into the fitness competitive world. That I saw was dangerous. If I stay here, where could this really lead to? Somehow, and I think that was God really planting wisdom in me at an early age, that this could go into very unhealthy directions.
Then my life personally was falling apart outside. I had everything externally as far as my body, a job that was bringing in more money than my friends who had nine-to-fives out of college. But my life inside my heart was falling apart. My marriage was falling apart. I didn't know who I was. I felt insecure all the time. And that's where Jesus entered. [00:06:39]
Then when Jesus entered, I love that He didn't take my love for helping people in their health and embodiment and physical activity. He didn't squash that. He actually redirected it to this is what our bodies are for, this is why we have a body, and this is what I want people to know.
So I started leaning into the Word of God and falling in love with Jesus. Really just falling in love with Jesus. Actually, I resisted the fitness thing with Jesus for quite a bit of time. Then as I continued to just walk with Jesus, he wouldn't let me let go of this vision of helping people truly get free and out of that obsessed neglect pattern.
That's what led me to establishing in 2011 Revelation Wellness, and that's what we do. If you go to our website right now, you'll see Stop Obsessing, Stop Neglecting, and Live Free in Your Body. We do that by helping people have mental and physical health practices to grow in a wholehearted faith. And that our body is not about vanity. [00:07:42] It's about ability, and that's what we help people do.
Laura Dugger: What are some of the unique opportunities that have come as a result of this ministry?
Alisa Keeton: Oh, my gosh. I think the most unique thing about the ministry is watching how people have transformation, watching people who really never thought... Again, the obsessors who know that they have made it about something that is not life-giving and it terminates on itself... because that's what idolatry does. Idolatry is you seek after that thing, and eventually it doesn't satisfy.
So it's awesome to watch people who have been in fitness for a long time who have either struggled with eating disorders, body dysmorphia, body image disorders, feeling like their body has never been enough and constantly trying to change it, watching them come and just break from the lie that was spoken over. Really what Jesus does is because we invite Jesus into the story of their body, He reveals, that's why we're called Revelation Wellness, He reveals to them the deeper heart issue that it was always about, and He wants to walk with them in further healing. [00:08:55]
So watching people move out of eating disorders and those obsessive patterns of spending hours at the gym, counting every macronutrient of food, always walking around with their MyFitnessPal, just so much waste of time and energy, watching them heal and get free, watching them let their body change, watching them get kinder to their body, which is my story, that's been an amazing opportunity.
Then the other side is the people that have felt like they've had a little bit of fitness trauma. In other words, they were the last kid picked for the kickball team. They were the last kid in on the 30-yard or 50-yard dash, whatever it is. Watching them really come to the Lord with their pains and hurts and be truly delivered from that cycle of neglect and walk with Christ out into healing.
What we don't see in our ministry often, and I'll just shoot it to you straight, Laura, we will never see us look at this amazing before and after picture. [00:09:58] We have a lot of before and after pictures or people that could do that, but we've realized that our bodies are always changing and that our bodies were created to host heaven. They're created to steward the presence and love of God. And if we do that, then our body is going to work itself out in what it should weigh or what it should look like.
So we help people constantly come back to this inside-out approach. And that really is the message of this book, The Body Revelation, on how to heal from the inside-out.
Laura Dugger: I love how you weave in your own personal story in the writing of this recent book, The Body Revelation. But then what are some practical ways that our bodies can be part of the solution for moving past pain and beginning a healing journey?
Alisa Keeton: Yeah. I would like to say that those extremes that we fall into, whether it's obsess or neglect, really it's idolatry. [00:10:57] Again, maybe for some people it's not their body that becomes the idol, but it's money, it's friendships, it's success. That's what the enemy came to do. He came to kill, steal, and destroy. So he shoves us into these extremes of making it about that thing, turning a God thing and make it into a good thing, or completely dashing us into thinking God is good, He's not strong enough, He cannot help you, what's the point of trying? That's what he does. That is his scheme. Where Jesus came to give us life to the full.
And when we come to Christ... I don't think anyone comes to Christ skipping through the tulips. We come because we need a Savior. We come because we know we can't save ourselves from obsessing. We know we can't save ourselves from the neglect pattern. We know idolatry really tries to get our hearts and take us captive, and it does not satisfy.
So when we've lived a life in those extremes, surviving our pain and trying to behavior-modify and manage our hurt, we actually, inside your brain, we come with a lot of neural pathways and thought processes in a life that we lived prior to coming to Christ. [00:12:11] So this renewing of our mind in Romans 12 too, it's not just renew your mind because reading the Word of God is good for you. It actually renews your mind. It's truth. The Word of God will last forever. Heaven and earth will fade away, fall away, but the Word of God stands and endures. It's the Word of God that created everything.
Our bodies, who we are, created by God's Word spoken. And so our minds need renewing in who God says we are. And that pulls us out of that obsess and neglect pattern. Here's the beauty of what Revelation Wellness and the Book teaches, your mind is connected to your body and your body is connected to your mind. This is scientifically research-backed.
When you talk up to your mind, you are also talking to your body. Your beliefs, what you think, affects your biology. And your biology of how you're feeling will affect how you think. So we kind of get stuck in a loop unless we know a word or something that is truer than what we think and truer than our physical existence here on earth.[00:13:18]
This body, it's a good body, but we will also be given a new body one day, a resurrected body, a whole body, a body that is not bent, broken, and fractured because of sin. So we really need to come back to who is God? Who am I in relationship to Him? And that process of metabolizing who God is in relationship to our pain is what renews our mind, not just in a spiritual way, but in a neurological, neuropathway way. And that brings up our immune system so we are more resilient when it comes to sickness and disease.
Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
[00:14:01] <music>
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[00:15:54] <music>
Laura Dugger: Well, and you bring up the brain that God has created for us. And you've done a lot of research on how we get into that higher functioning part of our brain. So can you summarize some of that for us?
Alisa Keeton: Yes, I love it. I can't believe the things I know about the brain, but honestly, this book was written out of my own quest of healing, of why do I know what is right to do? It wasn't necessarily about food or exercise. I would kind of do that as my coping mechanism.
But my soul, like I knew what was right to do. I could do all the right things externally, but internally I could not hold hope and joy and love and peace and patience and kindness for my children and my family. Like my life was not... there was disintegration. And I got after, why is this happening? I was reading the Word. I was leading Bible studies. I was doing all the things, but it was not penetrating my heart. [00:16:55] When I realized it wasn't about my heart, it was about my head.
I had come through childhood trauma. I had lived through adversity of my youth. And whether you've lived through adversity in your youth or you're now a full-grown adult living through chronic stress every day, whether it's trauma of your childhood, ongoing stress in your childhood, or ongoing stress/trauma in your adulthood, that changes the organization and structure of your brain. That is a fact.
And that's why I believe we see so much sickness and disease increasing. And that's why we see more drugs being made because we're trying to chase the symptom of our hearts have not found rest in Christ.
And although our hearts say, yes, I believe in God, until our brains have a chance to rewire and renew, and we do that with our body as well, then we will feel like hypocrites. We will confess with our mouth and believe in our heart, but yet our lifestyle won't reflect what we believe. [00:18:01]
The good news about the brain is it can be renewed. Since the 1990s, we found out that neuroplasticity really is a thing. Prior to the 1990s, if you were diagnosed with any type of mental health disorder or challenge, any type of behavior, addiction, it was just kind of thought, well, you've got to manage that. There's nothing we can do.
In the 1990s, we realized that we actually could re-sculpt the brain through something called neurogenesis, neuroplasticity. And people who exercise, people who move their body... so I want to deconstruct. Some people think, oh, gosh, I have to do burpees. I have to do a really hard thing. No, you actually just have to... if you just move your body and increase your heart rate up to a moderate pace, that area of your brain, an area of your brain called the hippocampus, which is responsible for memory and learning, mostly for memory, like it really helps you construct memory and recall memory, that part is active for people who move their bodies, who have any practice of elevating their heart rate 20, 30 minutes a day. [00:19:11]
And when we increase the activity of the hippocampus, we decrease the activity of the amygdala. People who are chronically stressed or grew up in adversity or trauma, their amygdalas are hyperactive. Everyone knows this today. If you are stressed out at work, you feel like, "Oh, my gosh, I'm going to lose my job," or "people aren't liking my work," or whatever it is, and then we compound it with emails and texts and demands, you're chronically stressed, your amygdala is more active than those who have learned to be resilient and faith and have trust that, nope, I'm a person who can rest. I do not put my faith in what I can see. I put faith in the unseen, that I have a hope that is more than what I'm living through right now, what I'm experiencing.
And like I said, when we exercise, we're increasingly neurogenesis of our brain, decreasing the cry of the amygdala, which is fight, flight, freeze, pain, cover yourself, make sure, you know, do whatever you have to do to protect yourself. [00:20:16] That gets quiet. And then we can come up to higher reasoning.
The prefrontal medial cortex for people who move their body or meditate and have an ability to sit still and breathe or move your body and think good thoughts, your prefrontal medial cortex, which is responsible for reasoning, making good decisions, having perspective, taking empathy, optimistic thinking, creative thinking, that gets more active for people who engage in some type of movement.
So that's really the message of The Body Revelation. As you go through it, we journey through metabolizing pain. So wherever you are, whether it's just you're just unhappy in your life, maybe you've lived through divorce or rejection or bullying or shame. I just believe we haven't done a good job in the church of talking about the body. And what about the pain that I hold?
Bessel van der Kolk says, and he's a psychotherapist, that our bodies keep the score. [00:21:16] Our bodies are holding onto information and pain. And that energy, as you learn in the book, in The Body Revelation, cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed into something else or transferred onto someone else.
And when we get into these physical practices that we go through in the book, we're actually metabolizing that pain. We're not running from the pain. We're not running from the stress. Stress is not a bad thing. It's just too much. Ongoing stress changes the operation and structure of our brain. So we can love Christ and give Him our lip service, but our hearts will feel far away and our bodies will pay the bill.
Laura Dugger: So bottom line, the way to get to the higher functioning parts of our brain, getting out of the fight, flight, freeze, and just stuck in the emotions and getting more to the critical thinking or the dreaming part is just simply to move that God gave us that option.
Alisa Keeton: Yeah, I will say yes to move. But the quickest way to do that, and it's the most simple way, which is connected to movement, is breathing. [00:22:19] Like everyone right now, let's just inhale for the count of five. One, two, three, four, five. Exhale. One, two, three, four, five. That shifts us. Just taking a deep... Whenever we take an inhale to an exhale, we shift from sympathetic mode of our nervous system, which is our fight, flight, freeze, into parasympathetic rest and digest.
And it's so beautiful because God tells us He gives us His breath. His spirit in us is our breath of life. So when we breathe... and that's why first knowing how to breathe and then really what movement is, is amplification of the breath. So when I start to stress and I bring that breath in, I'm actually activating stress in a useful way. So that helps us to metabolize pain. So yes to movement, but yes, also in this book, we do a lot of breathing practices because it's the quickest, most accessible, and proven way to help people heal from the inside out. [00:23:24]
Laura Dugger: Yeah. It sounds too good to be true, but it is very true and backed up by science. Like you said, that's how the Lord created it. On page 15, you have a section of why pain must be processed. And I'll just read one of your quotes. You write, "And although your body is efficient at internalizing your pain, it isn't efficient in actually dealing with it." So Alisa, as we're learning how to metabolize pain, how does this process ultimately make us more connected to God?
Alisa Keeton: That's the beauty of The Body Revelation. I just want to say it is too good to be true, you guys. That's called faith. We believe in a faith that is too good to be true. We had a God who came to us. We didn't deserve it. He died on a cross, resurrected. It all feels like crazy too good to be true.
And the book really is pushing us towards dropping the pin at where we are. [00:24:25] That's why I start... There's six stages to metabolizing pain. I talk about we got to begin where we are, and we're just surviving. We're just getting through life. Everyone, if we aren't thriving, if we aren't in the abundant life, we have to stop and think, okay, I am living in an old state of mind. I'm thinking from my old self. And that's a survival mechanism. It's okay.
I think it's beautiful that God's like, hey, I want you to live. Surviving isn't a bad thing, but it's not the best thing. So from surviving, we can begin to move through and go, "Okay, I've survived some pretty hard things. Life is hard right now. My job is hard or my marriage is hard. My kids are stressful." But we then can begin to recognize how that stress, how our partnership with those thoughts actually are... they do brain damage to us. Really, if we continue to think in that survival mode and just try to get our needs met as fast as possible instead of, okay, I'm now going to learn how to take this energy of stress that I'm feeling, and I need to express it. [00:25:33]
And so that's in the book. We teach people how to go through an expressive phase, how to express our emotions and what we're feeling without oppressing others with our feelings or suppressing the emotions ourselves, which only hurt ourselves.
Then moving from that, it really is to humble ourselves before the Lord. We can express ourselves, but unless we take it to the Lord. People hear that in sermons like, "Hey, take your feelings. The Lord's capable. Take it to the Lord." But a lot of people go, "How do I do that? What does that look like?"
The book actually goes, we're going to now go and do this together. Put on your shoes. We go for a walk and we take those things to the Lord. We actually express, move our body, or sit and breathe and take those emotions to Him because He's more than capable of taking it. And He is the help and He is the ever-present help in times of trouble.
Then once we've taken something to God, we're His. [00:26:30] When we go to Him and say, God, you are a God, I am not, we humble ourselves. That helps us to move through the next stage of metabolizing our pain, which then puts us in right standing with God. When we give God our emotion, our hurt, our pain, our rejection and our praise and our joy, it puts us in right standing with God. And we are now operating as citizens of heaven to earth. We're children of God. We actually are citizens of the kingdom here on earth. We are the royal priesthood. We are God's chosen people.
And from that posture of being raised with Christ, then we can walk through this life with a body in good stewardship of bringing more of heaven to earth. That is kind of the process of metabolizing our pain. We have to know where we are, feel what we feel, take it to the Lord, but there's practical ways of doing that, which we learn in the book. [00:27:31] And then from there we operate from our inheritance and our identity of who we are.
And then that's the goal of the book is that people keep their body revelation. Don't lose their body revelation. Stay where God says you are seated and lifted up with Him when your body is the way that heaven gets seen here on earth.
If your body is moving and breathing and you are able to host love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self-control, you're doing it right.
Laura Dugger: You even say that when our bodies move, our mind seems to receive God's word with less resistance. So will you elaborate on that?
Alisa Keeton: Yeah, that's the same thing. Back to the brain... It's so cool. Our brains are like... they're not our minds. Our minds are like what we're conscious of, our consciousness. I talk about it in the book that our brain is the car's engine. [00:28:30] It's just like the engine of your car. It's mechanical. It's there. If it's taken care of it, the engine's going to work.
Our body is the car, like wherever we're going to take our body, but our car, our body can't go anywhere without an engine. So the brain is the engine, but the mind is the driver's seat. And anyone who's mindful of who God is, you're going to drive that car towards the things of heaven. You're going to drive that car towards: This is what God said, this is what He's doing and here's how I am an ambassador and a messenger of this message today.
So our brains being the mechanical engine that they are, they develop in three parts from the bottom up. At the lower part of the brain, the brain stem, it's the earliest form of your body or your brain developed in your mother's womb. And you come out, a baby comes out, a healthy baby will come out with a fully formed brain stem. That part of your brain is also known as the body brain is the part of your brain that helps you to swallow, blink, do things that you don't have to think about doing. Breathing. [00:29:34] That's your body brain.
And then the next part of it, the mid area of the brain is your limbic brain, which is more of the emotional place, memory and learning, the amygdala, fight, flight, freeze. That's survival part of your brain. When you're born, a healthy brain, it's pretty active as well. That's why a baby cries because it feels — amygdala — cold or scared or hungry, and it knows, cry, send the signal.
The top part of your brain is your prefrontal medial cortex. That's the executive functioning of your brain. That's reasoning as we talked about. Funny enough, God would have it be so that we are not born with fully developed prefrontal medial cortex. We are not developed with executive functioning brains, not until we're in our mid-20s do we have a fully formed engine for our car? And that's why the formative years are so well-formative in the sense of how the brain will develop.
But when we move our body, when you go for a walk, or when you just sit and breathe with intention, you are engaging the body part of the brain, the lower area of the brain, the brain stem, and the limbic brain. [00:30:46] What I like to call it is like kind of putting a stick in the elephant's trunk.
So as you engage that part of the brain, you know, elephant trunks wander and they keep from keeping that part of the trunk wandering, the circus people would put sticks in the elephant's trunks. When we move our body, we're kind of occupying and in a productive way, the body, the brain, the emotions. We're occupying them in a really healthy way, productive way. So then the prefrontal medial cortex is open for business. What do you want to talk about? What do you want to reason about? What do you want to think about? What do you want to dream about? What do you want to have a vision for?
And that's why when we move our bodies, it is neuroplastic. You can actually restructure your brain to help move it towards a more active prefrontal medial cortex and a less active amygdala. And all of that happens because we've engaged all areas of the brain. [00:31:46] If you want to.
Now a lot of people just go to the gym and just move their body and they stay very emotional about trying to lose weight and getting things done, missing the higher opportunity to think more clearly, to get in line with who God says they are and to even pray and dream and become more of a whole person in that movement time.
So I don't have any science on that, but there is science behind bilateral movement when you go for a walk, that when you are stimulating both sides of the brain, it's much like EMDR, which is a therapeutic treatment for people who have lived through trauma. It can help them calm and access that traumatic moment without a panic mode. And I believe that can happen when we walk or move our body in a rhythmic way. We can access higher thought and kind of properly file away any stress or worry. [00:32:45]
Laura Dugger: I just view this conversation as such an invitation to move. Because you just mentioned you don't want to miss out. And I feel like we do miss out on what the Lord has to offer when he talks about loving with mind, body, soul, spirit, our strength. All of this I'm seeing is interconnected.
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You so eloquently weave together science and faith and you've talked about neuroplasticity, but you also mentioned in the book the first law of thermodynamics. Do you want to share some of the conclusions, what that is?
Alisa Keeton: Yes, I love that. There's so many things in this book that I love. I think I wrote the book just to get to some of these really fun things to think about and to think, God, if that's how God made the world and I'm made in His image, there might be something here to how I live and move and have my being.
So first law of thermodynamics. So this is actually in stage one of the book I talk about in the surviving stage. You know, we're all born broken, born into sin, born little sinners and trying to get through, get what we need in life. And that's okay. We're created with needs. [00:34:46] Needs aren't to be shamed. Needs need to be met. Hunger, thirst, clothing, warmth, love. God's left us with those vulnerabilities for needs.
But in our needs of getting our needs met, we will desire things, anything to try and get that need met. I can't remember who said that that's the definition of sin. Definition of sin is getting a legitimate need met illegitimately, in illegitimate ways.
And so I talk about this desire that we all have. We all have desire for love. We all have desire for belonging. We all have desire to be purpose and matter. Those desires are energy. It really is. When you desire something, you really... that's an emotion. I want that. I have a fire in my belly for that. And that emotion is energy in motion.
We all are a bunch of energetic creatures wanting things. And what we want... really we're made for God, but that energy, God has created it so that energy we have that gets me through the day, that makes me want to take another breath, that makes me go for the walk. [00:35:57] I have to take energy in in the form of food and out goes energy. So that's the metabolism. That's actually what a metabolic process is. Energy in, energy out.
But thermal thermodynamics says it's the law. That energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed into something else or transferred on to someone else. God created energy. In the beginning, God said, let there be light. I believe that by the way, when he said, let there be light, I believe it wasn't like light. As in when we think of a light, like turning on a light switch. It was this Zzzz, this hum, this energy. Light. It really is a force of electricity. Light. Because everything God created is energy. This table is energy. Your computer's energy. Your body is energy.
And energy is more empty space than matter. If there's more of you, Laura, that is energy, that's empty space. [00:37:00] There's less of you that is your skin and your bones and your blood, which is true. Because go down to any cemetery, you're going to see a lot of no energy, the energy left. The soul is energy. The desire is energy. And energy cannot be created or destroyed because God created it. And you can't destroy it because whatever God creates only God destroys.
So energy now is this force of "I'm either going to transform it into something else that is useful or destructive, or I transfer it onto someone else in a useful or productive way." And that is this... once we kind of pull back and be like, Oh, I'm just desiring things and my energy inside of me is either getting used for good or for evil. I can't create it. I can't destroy it. I can only change it into something. What do I want to change it into? Or I want to pass it on to someone else. Am I going to pass on love or am I going to pass on fear? Am I going to change it or let it just change me in a positive or negative way? [00:38:13]
So I think energy to me is just a fun way to kind of demystify. I know people might be like, Ooh, this is new agey. No, this is old age. This is how God created the world. And if until we start to contend with how energy is who we are, we're an energetic person and our beings and what we do with our energy matters, and we can partner with God to change it and transfer it and change the world, that's really such a powerful invitation.
Laura Dugger: And just to build on that, I'm going to tie in two more of your quotes. One, the first is from page 38 where you write, "In essence, emotions are energy in motion, making their way through our bodies and waiting to be harnessed by our muscles so our bodies can release them into the world." And I love how that connects to what you say on page eight, one of my favorite quotes in the book: "Our bodies are how love makes its way into the world."
Alisa Keeton: Yeah. I just want people to see it. Really your body is not vanity. It's not for vanity. [00:39:14] The world and Satan and our flesh will constantly try to pull us into that current. But our body is about ability. Jesus came and put on flesh, not to flex and have six-pack abs. He came to show us a kingdom and an ability behind that kingdom. And then we've been given that same ability to raise the dead, cleanse the leper, heal the sick, like change the world so it looks more like heaven on earth.
Laura Dugger: Amen. Well, you also say that our bodies and brains are for us. But how would you encourage someone if they're listening and they actually feel the opposite right now?
Alisa Keeton: Yeah. If you're feeling that, first of all, compassion. I feel like God... He draws near the brokenhearted. He draws near those who feel like they don't have it. I love the Message version says in Matthew 5, "You're blessed when you're at your end of your rope." You're blessed. The blessed are the poor in spirit. [00:40:18] So it's a beginning place.
I just want to encourage someone to say you're in a beginning place. Here's what you don't need to do. You don't need to open up the app and download another program and muscle up with more willpower. And maybe if I read more scripture and I really buckle down. That's exhausting. He knows how tired you feel. And I think God invites us to come and take His yoke upon us. Because there is a yoke. There is a yoke. I always like to think that there is work in this world. There is good things that God has for you to do. And it does take energy and time and energy. But He's worth it choosing what He wants for your life is best.
But when you come to Him, He receives you with kindness and compassion. In Romans, it says that it's His kindness that leads us to repentance. And repentance means a new way of life, a new direction to go, a new purpose for why you go that way. [00:41:18] So come to Him in kindness.
I mean, the book will help you with that, that learning to just feel what you feel, but take to Him to learn what you need to know. And then in that it's a gentle walk out of it. It is not a fast, quick fix. It's not going to be flashy. I also want to encourage someone who feels frustrated with their body. First of all, to just say, if your body never changed one inch on what you saw in the mirror, but you could feel more free in it, more in love with God and yourself and others, would that be enough? Because I think the world constantly will tell you it's not enough. You have to change it. It needs to be smaller. It needs to be taller. You need to be blonder. You need to be tanner. You need to be whatever. Like it is a torment game that we have to get out of.
Shift our attention towards this body hosts heaven. This is how love gets seen. I cannot give away what I don't have. So God, I need you to come and love me here in this body, because it's where He chose to dwell. [00:42:23] And just stay in that place with Him. The goal of The Body Revelation is that you would have this body revelation of what your body is for and who it belongs to and how to hold on to that house key of your body home so that heaven stays in you.
It might not ever change on what you see, but what you contain and hold on the inside absolutely can change. You asked me that question, what are some of the stories I've seen and things I get to be a part of? It's that. I get to see over and over how people begin to fall in love with God in a deep and really experienced way that they can taste and see that God is good and then they begin to make choices, thoughts, and feelings come from this goodness of God in a body that's being called good. It's a fantastic, wonderful, gentle way to go. So that's what I would encourage you is be kind and be gentle and go to the Lord and begin these tiny little steps of walking into new life. [00:43:23]
Laura Dugger: We are all about practical application when we hear something to put it into practice because that is a lot of times where the Lord meets us with transformation. You exhort one of the first steps. Rather than turning to run and numb, if we find ourselves in a state of stress, you invite us to rather walk and talk. I think you mentioned today, breathe too.
Alisa Keeton: Yes. He's the best. He's the best. There's no better place to spend your time than with Him. And you receive all that you need, all that energy of heaven that you need to then go out and give it away. It's fun. It's a fun way to live.
Laura Dugger: Alisa, there's one of your stories that really stands out as well. So will you share your personal story to illustrate the power of hope?
Alisa Keeton: Oh, the power of hope. Yes. When my firstborn was born, my son, Jack, I had all the dreams of what having a baby would be like and having your firstborn. [00:44:26] And I did not have that experience. I had a son who cried nonstop from three weeks old until three months old. He had colic. He had colic nonstop round the clock. Not just the bewitching hours colic, but really ongoing.
I had tons of pride around that. I felt like I was failing, like my child could not stop crying. I didn't want other people to have to care about my baby that was crying. So I stayed locked up in my house, trying to just help this child sleep, which he wouldn't. I was beginning to lose myself. Lack of sleep will do crazy things to people. And then you got hormones resetting. It was a messy, messy time.
And I was mad at God. I remember thinking, what is this? I thought I was going to have this amazing baby experience, and it was terrible. And I was embarrassed and ashamed of it.
Then one day there was a knock at the door, and what they call the mommy brigade showed up, some women from church, women that I didn't even really know. [00:45:28] I mean, I had just started going to church at this point. I was just really newly walking with the Lord again. They had been checking on me by phone, but I was not coming. I was not responding to a lot of stuff. And they showed up, and it was just a brigade of them, walked in, and my friend Melinda just kind of pinned my arms down and said, "We are here to help. You are going to go lay down now, and we're going to take care of everything." Wow, I could still actually cry right now, Laura, thinking of that. Because I'm such a doer. I'll keep going. Again, those people that were just like, I've got to just make it happen. I've got to survive.
She pinned my arms down and walked me back to the bedroom and laid me down, and I resisted until I didn't. And while I slept, they did my laundry and cared for Jack. I mean, he would be fine if he was held all the time. You had to hold him all the time. It was a moment of hope. It was this that "you're not alone, and this moment will pass. We're going to get through it." [00:46:29] Kind of back to when I was on the aerobic room floor, that everything is going to be all right. That hope moment gave me enough to say, "Keep going. This is not going to last forever."
There's a study that was done by some scientists on hope. And what they did is they took rats. Rats are actually pretty good. They're pretty good at swimming. But they put rats in water, and the rats in water would drown after about five minutes or so. After five minutes, they would start to drown because they were in this contained environment. It's not something that they had been in before, and they didn't know what to do. Even though they inherently are pretty good swimmers, they would drown after about five minutes.
What they did next is they thought, you know, I wonder... because they knew rats were good swimmers, that they then took another set of rats, put them in this contained environment of water, and right about the time before they were going to die, right around they could see they were starting to lose their ability to keep their heads above water, they would swoop in and lift the rat up, take it out of the water, give it a moment to reprieve, give it a moment to be okay, and then would put it back in the water. [00:47:49] And those rats that went back in the water would swim for hours. I believe it was up to 16 hours. They would keep swimming.
Why is that? Because they were touched by hope. And that touch of hope and then to be put back into that environment, they actually found something inside of them that was, like, stronger, like, okay, we can keep going, we can keep going, hope is coming, hope is coming, hope is coming. So their ability, their inherent ability to swim connected with this hope, and they could go longer than they thought they could initially.
I think it's just a beautiful picture of how God created us. He gives us these moments to take hope, because in taking hope that we find in Him, we find an inherent ability to go further than we thought we could.
Laura Dugger: Thank you for sharing that. And yes, you've already given the reason for our hope in Jesus Christ and wherever we're at, that just turning to Him and starting this process, sharing where we're at openly with Him, He is our hope and He can get us through. [00:48:53] Alisa, you have so much more to offer. So where can we all go after this chat to learn more from you?
Alisa Keeton: I love that. Thank you. You can go to Revelation Wellness, revelationwellness.org. We have all kinds of free things to get you going, get starting to move your body, or to sit and get some of these mental and physical health practices for your wholehearted faith. So revelationwellness.org.
I highly encourage the book. I love writing things that are systematic, things that can help people drop the pin where they are and then move through something, not feel like it's a smattering of this, that, and other things. It actually is there to help you progress and process through. I really hope people enjoy it. And that'd be a great place to start as well.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will put links to that in the show notes for today's episode. You may already be aware we are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce? [00:50:01]
Alisa Keeton: My savvy sauce is intimacy with Jesus Christ. I love Him. I went from knowing about Him and His word to really all the things that I've learned to practice where I have an intimate relationship with Him. So intimacy with Jesus Christ is my secret sauce. He knows me. I know him. We're on a first-name basis. He is my friend. He is as real as my breath, my hands right here. That is my secret sauce.
Laura Dugger: Alisa, you are clearly on fire for the Lord and your enthusiasm spurs me not only to move, but to also glorify Him. It's been incredible through reading your book and following Revelation Wellness and hearing you today, just these gifts that He's given you specifically, you're clearly stewarding those well to help set the captives free in unique ways. So thank you for your faithful ministry and thank you for being my guest today.
Alisa Keeton: Thank you, Laura. It was a blast. I enjoyed every moment. [00:51:08]
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [00:52:08] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [00:53:07]
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [00:54:10] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Apr 24, 2023
Monday Apr 24, 2023
Special Patreon Re-release: Out of the Box Stress Relievers to Apply Today with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith
**Transcription Below**
Matthew 11:29+30 (NIV) “Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith is an author, speaker, and board-certified internal medicine physician. She has an active medical practice in Alabama (near the Birmingham area). She received her B.S. in Biochemistry at the University of Georgia and graduated with honors from Meharry Medical College in Nashville. She has been an adjunct faculty member at Baker College and Davenport University in Michigan teaching courses on health, nutrition, and disease progression. Dr. Dalton-Smith is a national and international media resource on the mind, body, spirit connection and a top 100 medical expert in Good Housekeeping Doctors’ Secrets. She has been featured in many media outlets including Women’s Day, Redbook, First For Women, MSNBC, and Prevention. She is the author of Set Free to Live Free and Come Empty (winner 2016 Golden Scroll Nonfiction Book of the Year and 2016 Illumination Award Gold medalist). Her newest release is Sacred Rest: Recover Your Life, Renew Your Energy, Restore Your Sanity, including ground-breaking insight on the seven types of rest needed to optimize your productivity, increase your overall happiness and live your best life. She has shared her tips on merging faith and medicine with over 16,000 health care professionals to encourage the current and next generation of doctors to treat the whole person. Learn more about Dr. Saundra at IChooseMyBestLife.com.
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
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So, for today, I'm pleased to share an episode that originally aired in December of 2019 with my guest, Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith, who is a clinician, author, and speaker. [00:02:21]
Here's our chat.
Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Dr. Dalton-Smith.
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Thanks for having me.
Laura Dugger: Great to have you back. In case our listeners missed our previous chat, will you just share a glimpse of who you are and what you do?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Yes. I'm a board-certified internal medicine physician and an author. My latest book is Sacred Rest: Recover Your Life, Renew Your Energy, Restore Your Sanity. And I'm a mom of two teens and a wife of almost 19 years now.
Laura Dugger: Well, and as a doctor, what issues are your clients commonly presenting with?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Well, some of the main things that are coming into my practice are, number one, is just chronic fatigue, people that are tired all the time, insomnia is a big one at this point, as well as lots of people who are struggling with anxiety and depression. Those seem to be the main areas of concern when someone shows up. What I'm finding is that a lot of people are dealing with insomnia. [00:03:22] That's probably one of the biggest ones.
Laura Dugger: And we haven't really discussed that much on this podcast. So are you seeing any reasons for insomnia or anything that helps people with this frustrating issue?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Well, I see that the typical way that medicine is treating it is to toss a pill at it, which is kind of typical for medicine. But that's effective to some degree. I don't have a problem necessarily with people using sleep aids periodically.
But the issue with that is that your body can become very dependent on them. So even natural things like melatonin and then the prescription sleep aids, when your body becomes dependent on it, then you have to take them to be able to go to sleep. I prefer to try to help patients kind of determine what it is that's keeping them from getting their body in a calm enough state to be able to get to those higher levels of sleep.
I mean, when you think about sleep, you really have to look at the kind of the sleep process. [00:04:24] You have REM and non-REM sleep. And with the non-REM sleep, you have four stages. So most of us are getting stage one and stage two, which is very light sleep. You don't actually get the restoration of the body and kind of the nerve regeneration and all of those good things that happen in sleep until stage three, which is a much deeper type of sleep. It's where, you know, if I tried to wake you up, I'm going to have to shake you a little bit. You're not just going to wake up from hearing a sound.
And then rarely do adults get to that stage four, which if you have kids you've probably seen it. When they fall asleep in the car and you pick them up and they're like a rag doll, they're just like floppy. So rarely do adults ever get to that stage because it's such a deep level of sleep. But the good thing is, is you don't have to get there. You actually start getting a lot of the restorative benefits of sleep in stage three.
Laura Dugger: Are you saying adults don't usually get there because they're not sleeping long enough periods or because maybe physically we don't need that stage? [00:05:28]
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Well, that stage, you can jump to REM from three to four. So when I say adults don't get there, they transition through there. Maybe a better word. They don't stay in that stage. They transition through there onto REM sleep, which is that rapid eye movement sleep where really you get a lot of the great benefits with the awakening of the senses and being able to process information. That's where the new synapses come in and creative ideas burst forth and dreams and all of those things can start taking process.
Laura Dugger: That's so fascinating to learn more about the brain. One more question on this topic of insomnia. Do you see it being related to other life factors like diet or lifestyle?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Yes. There's lots of studies that suggest that caffeine later in the day does affect your ability to go into these deeper levels of non-REM sleep. So many of the studies recommend that you stop caffeine, preferably before noon. [00:06:28] But some go as far as saying you could go to two o'clock and still not have any adverse effects from it.
What I always recommend with my patients who are dealing with insomnia is to stop at noon and see if it does improve their sleep. And that includes tea and Coke, which gets complicated here in the South where I live because everybody likes tea, either sweetened or unsweetened. So there's lots of caffeine being consumed long after the coffee in the morning. So I think it's important to really have some times when you are doing a self-analysis to see how your body is responding to these different things.
Laura Dugger: That's so interesting. What about sugar as well? Is that a culprit for insomnia?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Sugar stimulates most people. So large amounts of sugar at night. But considering sugar is consumed within about two hours after eating it, as far as your blood sugar spike and then it going back down. [00:07:27] If you were eating, let's say, ice cream or something like that, you know, something really sweet right before bed, then there wouldn't be enough time for your sugar levels to kind of spike and go back to normal or even bottom out, depending on the situation.
You've heard of people say they have a sugar rush and then kind of the lull that comes after it. So depending on the timing, that could play a part in it as well.
Laura Dugger: You mentioned anxiety, depression, and insomnia are some common presenting issues. How has that changed over the years?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Well, our lifestyles are way more stressful. So I've been practicing medicine now for about 20 years. And when I first started practicing medicine, it truly was all about medicine. It was high blood pressure, diabetes, heart attacks, strokes, all of the basic internal medicine issues.
Now we have gotten a really good grasp on prevention for a lot of these. So people are mindful of the things they need to do to try to keep their blood pressure and their sugars under control but they're not keeping their lifestyles under control. [00:08:35] So they are packing more activities and taking away their time to rest and replacing it with more work.
And then when social media hit, what, maybe 10 years ago, I guess, when we first started having kind of this big influx with social media, that catapulted all of it in the wrong direction as far as those things that I mentioned with insomnia, depression and anxiety. Because then what little downtime we had before got consumed with activities that make us compare ourselves to other people, that give us very broad glimpses and a lot of lives. And we're only seeing the beauty in the life. We don't really see all the other stuff when you're looking at a lot of these social media posts.
So it really started affecting us mentally in a way that I think most of us didn't realize. You know, our social capacity and our ability to have empathy and to relate to people only extends so far. [00:09:40] We really aren't hotwired to be able to keep up with 3,000 people and how their day-to-day lives are going. But that's what we do.
Laura Dugger: That kind of leads me into another question. What are the most common stressors in the lives of the patients that you see?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Some of the big ones usually are family. If they have kids, that's usually a consistent stressor. Just the worrying about the day-to-day process of being a parent. I think parents always have some level of worry just kind of ingrained in them.
The age group that I deal with tends to be between the ages of 40 to 60 within my practice. And so there's a lot of stressors having to do with elderly parents or aging parents. So you have your kids you're dealing with who are getting ready to go to college and then you have your parents who are probably getting ready to go to a nursing home. So you've got kind of this weird dynamics where you're having to intercept within two lives that are on completely different playing fields. [00:10:41]
Other stressors include trying to find that work life. I know a lot of people call it balance. I call it work-life harmony because I don't think you can balance the two. But trying to find that harmony between your work life and your home life. That seems to be a huge stressor.
And then finances. Having enough and getting the bills paid and debts and all the different parts that go with just the financial part of it.
Laura Dugger: Just to elaborate on one of those topics, we've had multiple listeners ask different things about aging parents because there's not a lot of helpful information out there. So if that is a common stressor, what encouragement do you have for somebody in that sandwich time where they maybe are still caring for their children and their aging parent?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: There are resources, but they're not well promoted is what I'm finding. What I recommend, if you have any type of way of getting in contact with your aging parents' physician... and that gets really tricky because let me tell you a trick. [00:11:46] You can't just call the doctor and expect them to talk with you because we have all type of HIPAA laws now.
So the very best thing you can start with is having your parent include you as an authorized person the physician can talk to about their case. That's just a signed piece of paper with your name and any of their kids or whoever that your parent would allow the physician to talk to. That way, when you call, they can let you know what's available in their area to help your particular situation.
It could be home health, having a home health aide come out to help with bathing and cleaning, and those kind of daily activities that your parent might be having trouble with. Also, home health aides can do a general home assessment to see if there's any areas in the home that appear unsafe. Maps that they may slip over or fall and those kind of things.
So just kind of getting in relationship with your parents' doctor would be a great start because that way they can tell you what they're seeing that you may not see if you don't live there. [00:12:52]
Laura Dugger: And during our previous conversation, listeners can go back and find that episode on sacred rest. And it seems like maybe those caregivers are in a season of being more depleted and hopefully they can really focus on getting some helpful restoration.
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Yes, that's so important because caregivers often they get into that give, give, give mode and they really don't see how allowing themselves to be restored helps them to maintain that. You can't continually give and never receive without eventually becoming depleted and burned out. Caregiver burnout is a huge thing.
You hear about that even within parenting, not just with caring for the elderly, but where it seems almost as if someone snaps at some point. And really what's happened is they've become burned out. They've given so much that they just don't have anything left.
Laura Dugger: Those are really great recommendations for caregivers. [00:13:52] But then as we're talking about these stressors that your clients present with, do you have any highest recommended stress relievers?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: A lot of them are the ones that have to do with some of the rest issues that we talked about. So one of the big ones is social. And that's basically in the form of community, making sure that you have a community kind of mindset, those people that you are allowing to restore you, those life-givers that are allowing to pour back into you.
So making sure that you take the time for relationship with friends that don't need anything from you other than just wanting to be within your presence. And that can be difficult when you're a caregiver. Let's say if you have a demented parent who is staying at home with you, how are you going to go out with friends?
One simple way and something that a lot of homeschool or stay-at-home moms have been doing after talking with them about this concept is allowing electronics to work for you. Using things like Skype or Zoom or WhatsApp or FaceTime to have virtual times of social rest. [00:14:59]
So have a virtual coffee date with someone who is life-giving to you. Set a time. It doesn't matter if the kids are screaming in the background. It doesn't matter if the demented parent is walking around in the background. It allows you to have that eye-to-eye contact where you can actually see the person's mannerisms, their facial expressions. You can get that energy from just being in their presence and allow yourself to enjoy that without even having to leave your home.
Laura Dugger: That's a great idea because having a support system may be a stress reliever that's lesser discussed than others. Do you have any other lesser-discussed stress relievers?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Yes. One has to do with just that whole concept of making sure that you are getting good physical rest, both passive and active. The active part is what I want to focus on. I know we talked a lot about sleep earlier. So I want to focus on the active part of physical rest because so often when we have a lot of stress, we carry it within our bodies. [00:16:03]
Some of us will have kind of tense muscles. You'll feel like your neck and your head's not moving well because it's just very tight. Some people clench their teeth and grind their teeth. So they'll have pain that's in their jaw and kind of behind the ear area and the TMJ joints. All of these are areas where the body has a tendency to hold on to stress. So you want to do things that relax those muscles.
One of the very most simple things is to be mindful of if you have constriction of the neck, like when you move your head from side to side, you feel pulling down into the neck, to take the first two fingers and to push them into that muscle and just to kind of do a little kneading. It's just a simple self-massage to try to get that muscle to release.
And sometimes isolating the muscle by doing that, by putting those two fingers on it and just rolling them over it to knead them a little bit, can start allowing you to recognize when it's tense so that you can quickly start doing the things needed to release it, like neck stretching or neck rolls and things of that nature. [00:17:09]
I highly recommend massage for people who carry a lot of stress in their neck and back areas, because those muscles can become so toxic that it really just kind of limits you in other ways. It can be very distracting and keeps you from being able to focus because of just that ongoing tension.
Laura Dugger: It's a great creative solution. Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
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[00:19:28] <music>
Laura Dugger: Any others that you can think of?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Looking at life as an adventure and determining what you need to discover next. I think oftentimes that when we get more stressed out, we have a tendency to focus solely on the work that needs to be done and we take away the play and the fun because we feel like, I've got so much to do. I don't have time to just have fun or to play or to explore or to enjoy your life. And that's no life at all.
We always say that people should take a vacation so that they can go have some fun. Vacations are great if your sole purpose of the vacation is to have fun. But if you're going on vacation because you're tired and stressed out, you probably need more of a retreat than a vacation.
Because our standard vacations are not restful in the least bit, be doing a lot of fun work. And so what ends up happening is people feel like vacations don't really work to relieve stress because they come back from vacation more tired than when they left. [00:20:41]
So we really have to look at when we do vacations, when we're doing the planning part of it, what exactly is my goal? What am I needing to be accomplished during this time away? Because if you're needing to have that playfulness and fun, great. Do that at the early part of the vacation because we need that. We need those breakaways to have fun.
But if you're also feeling tired, reserve some time at the end of the vacation to do things that are more in the line of creative rest. Some time just in nature, some time at the beach, just appreciating the beauty of the surroundings and the setting. So that when you leave that time, you really were able to get the fullness of what you needed in those moments.
Laura Dugger: I think vacations are wonderful. Or like you said, retreats. Do you think that there's a way to incorporate that fun or playfulness or retreat more so into everyday life? [00:21:41]
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Absolutely. I highly recommend for my patients, when we're going through kind of why it is that they're either in an anxious or depressed state, to tell me what it is that they love to do just because it feels good to them. It may not make any sense to anyone else or be logical, but it's just something they love to do.
It's important to feel like you have permission to enjoy your passions. And so that could be something so bizarre and remote. But that's the thing. The more bizarre and remote it is, the more likely you are to feel like you don't deserve to be able to do it.
I had one woman whose playful side, kind of the thing that she loves to do, is to go into these antique stores you'd see like on the road if you're traveling and try to find these antique porcelain dolls. And she just has a fascination for it. It's just everything about it comes alive inside of her. [00:22:41] When she finds a new one it's like finding a new treasure.
And I think that's important. If there's something about your life that you love. Some people it's as simple as putting fresh flowers in your house or in your office or on your kitchen counter. Something that is purely for the love of it, not because you have a good reason for it or because it's going to fix anything specific, but just because it puts a smile on your face.
Laura Dugger: And I'm sure that, like you said, that's different for everybody depending on your own idiosyncrasies.
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Yes. I have one patient whose fun thing she likes to do is to she goes to a park, she just sits and watches kids play. And I told her, Okay, so what is it about that? She's like, I love remembering what it's like to be carefree because then I can then have it in my head when I go into my life. And I thought, How beautiful is that to be able to understand that that's an area where you struggle and you have to struggle with being carefree. [00:23:43] So being able to see people living carefree is how you remind yourself that that is a possibility for you.
Laura Dugger: It sounds like she was very self-aware to be able to identify and then problem-solve to meet that need.
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Absolutely.
Laura Dugger: Another topic you seem to be passionate about is helping others thrive in life. So can you share some ways that we can turbocharge our lives?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Yes. Let me start just with our core relationships. One of the very first things is to make sure that you are prioritizing eye-to-eye contact in your relationships. We've created a culture with all of our electronics and all of our digital communication where we are more comfortable not looking in each other's eyes. When I go to my kids' school, I'm sometimes distraught over how frequently their friends will be talking to me. And it's like they're looking at my ear and not my eyes.[00:24:41] There's a discomfort we have now with the intimacy of eye-to-eye contact with others.
And so just to begin that within your own marriage. So often with couples, as we get further and further in our relationship, you'll find that we are in the same room with each other, but we are not actually intimate or taking a lot of intimate time in our day-to-day interactions. We're either looking at our iPads or iPhones or the computer, the TV. Or when we are face to face, it's when we are discussing things like bills or arguing with each other. So you end up in these situations where people feel like they're living with their roommate and not their lover anymore.
So one of the things that I have people do in my 30-day sacred rest challenge is I have them spend five minutes face to face with their spouse asking that question. Everybody asks, but no one stays around to hear the answer. How are you doing? [00:25:40]
I find that if you allow time for people to honestly answer that question with more than a one-word response, then you get some very deep interaction into what's going on in their life. And that can be done with your spouse, your kids, and with people that you love to not allow them to get away with "it's good" or "I'm okay" or "everything's fine". To actually require them to process that question and to give you a heartfelt answer.
Laura Dugger: Are there any other ways you recommend people thrive in life?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Yeah. The morning routine, I think, is huge. I think how you start your day kind of sets the course for what the rest of your day is going to look like. For many people, when we first get up in the morning, the initial process the brain wants to go through is kind of, Okay, what do I got to do, what do I got to do? And just kind of jump into the activity.
I start every morning with a very simple opening my mind to what are the possibilities of what today can hold and just allowing God to kind of give me a fresh perspective on kind of my purpose and my goal for the day. [00:26:45] To be able to enter the day kind of with a specific mindset.
For example, today I woke up with a specific mindset of in what areas can I surprise someone with the goodness of God? That was kind of what came to me this morning. And so how may that look? I spend the day looking for how can I bless someone above and beyond what they would expect or what I would normally do. So if I go to a restaurant for lunch, I would normally maybe give a 15% tip or something like that.
So on a day when I felt like this, like I'm representing God kind of in human form, then that might be a 30% tip. It would be the above and beyond. And with a little note that says something like, "hope you have an awesome day. Be blessed." So I'm not preaching a scripture to them. I'm just loving them in a different way.
When you start days like that, you start them with a purpose and with a goal, you open yourself up to be looking for those opportunities to see that come to pass. [00:27:48] And it's wonderful. It leaves you feeling purpose-filled every day.
Laura Dugger: I love that idea of surpassing their expectations, and I think it does glorify Him. And I think it would just be a disservice not to cover something in the medical field while we've got your time. So are there any fascinating things that the medical field is discovering about our brains?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Yes, there is one study that really, when I was working with the book, just really blew my mind. I can't recall exactly where the study was done at, but the study was one where they were looking at how prayer affects people in the hospital, as far as how it affected their ability to heal and how it affected just their mindset and their thought processes.
What I loved about the study was that it took a look at when people were praying, what part of the brain was synapsing. [00:28:47] And what it found was the same part that was synapsing is this part that is in effect when we have communication with other people.
And I love how they concluded the study was that conversation with God imprints on our brain in the same way that conversation does with humans. It actually leaves an imprint on our brain so that it seals kind of a moment in time when that conversation occurred. It's not kind of like this out there in the blue thing that that no one can, you know, recognize. That when people talk to God and they're doing it in prayer, that it is as if he is standing in front of them and they are having that conversation.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that is incredible. And I love how he created our minds to be that way and be in relationship with Him.
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Oh, it's powerful. It's a powerful concept to think, to even just have that thought that your conversations with God are that concrete. [00:29:50] That it's not just all kind of out there and you can't grab a handle to it, but within our human bodies, He's allowed it to be in such a way that we can almost hold on to a piece of Him within those conversations.
Laura Dugger: And we have covered such a range of topics today. I'd love for you to boil it down. How can we apply all of this helpful information to our lives so that we can see actual life change?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Really, it's just putting into practice all of those seven different types of rest that I've talked about regarding sacred rest. Finding that time to allow yourself to stay rejuvenated and to be restored. I love that, you know, rest is an R.E. word and then recovery and rejuvenation and restorations are all R.E. words as well, because really it's about allowing yourself to have that redo, that second chance to come back in and to repair those places of our lives that get beat down living in a fallen world and allowing us to continually be restored back to a place of being at our best and serving at our best. [00:31:02]
Laura Dugger: And a great place to start is if listeners want to grab your book, Sacred Rest, or if they want to take that deeper dive going back to our previous episode that we recorded together so you can get an audio version of just an overview of those types of rest. And Dr. Saundra, is there any other way that listeners can find you online?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: Yes, they can visit my website at IChooseMyBestLife.com. That's my main website and lots of free resources on the resources tab are located there.
Laura Dugger: Perfect. Okay. As always, we'll link to that in our show notes and on our website under our resources tab, it will be listed there as well.
We are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: I would say to love eye to eye. And that's in every relationship that you have. [00:32:01] To love eye to eye with people so that you let people know that you see them. That's not just the people that you already are in deep relationship with. But even the people that you meet on the street, give them your full eye-to-eye attention. We feel so disconnected in this world and as if we're oftentimes alone. And just knowing that someone honors you enough to open themselves up to look eye to eye with you is a blessing in itself.
Laura Dugger: That's a wonderful idea. And really, Dr. Saundra, this time has just been so informative. I really appreciate you breaking these topics down for us. So thanks for your time. And thanks for being a guest today.
Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith: I enjoyed it. Thank you.
Laura Dugger: We hope you enjoyed this special Patreon release. And we hope it also gives you a glimpse into the amazing conversations we're having on Patreon every month. Next week, the only episode going live is for our paying patrons, and we don't want you to miss out. So head over to thesavvysauce.com, click the Patreon tab, and then follow the prompts. [00:33:07]
By joining Patreon, you are not only financially supporting the ministry of The Savvy Sauce and making our future episodes possible, but you are also signing up to gain access to perks, such as downloadable scripture cards and bonus episodes. It will only take you a couple minutes to make a huge difference. So we welcome you to join today.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. [00:34:07] But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? [00:35:13] We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. [00:36:15] We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Apr 17, 2023
Monday Apr 17, 2023
204. Charlotte Mason Inspired Mini-Series: A Delectable Education with Emily Kiser
**Transcription Below**
John 10:10, "The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly."
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
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Will you unpack a few points from Charlotte Mason’s philosophy of education?
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How do you explain what a "living book" is?
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How can we (practically) lay this feast before our children, regardless of our child’s method of schooling?
Emily Kiser is privileged to be the mother of four unique persons and be able to teach them about God, themselves and the world. For the past sixteen years she has operated a private lending library for local families full of living books. In that capacity she became acquainted with the teaching methods of Charlotte Mason and has devoted herself to learning as much as possible about the philosophy and practice of that great educational pioneer. It has been her great delight to help families implement the Charlotte Mason model of education locally through the Living Books Library, regionally by teaching seminars, and beyond with her Picture Study Portfolios and A Delectable Education Podcast. A perpetual student herself, Emily can imagine no greater joy than to share in the educational journey of her own children as they enjoy the feast of ideas and build relationships in as many directions as possible under the ultimate guidance of the Holy Spirit–the Supreme Educator of Mankind.
A Delectable Education Podcast
Emily's Book Recommendations:
A Tree for Peter by Kate Seredy
Little Britches by Ralph Moody
Roller Skates by Ruth Sawyer
Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan
A Little Princess by Frances Hodgson Burnett
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:01] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in central Illinois. Visit them today at LemanProperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
Earlier this year, one of my favorite friends passed away. Her name is Heather, and we met early on in motherhood. She's the person who introduced me to Charlotte Mason. And the more I read about Charlotte's biblical perspective, the more I desired this philosophy to influence our parenting.
I believe her wisdom is a hidden gem, and so I want to share it with others, beginning today with my guest, Emily Kiser. Emily is the host of A Delectable Education, where the hope is to spread the feast of the Charlotte Mason Method. [00:01:19]
She's my first guest in a mini-series to share more about Charlotte Mason's philosophy on cultivating moral character and making learning irresistible for life. The rest of the series is going to take place on Patreon, so I hope that you'll join Patreon to make sure you hear the rest of these episodes in addition to our growing library of bonus podcast episodes.
You can join by going to thesavvysauce.com and clicking the Patreon tab, then click on "Join Patreon here" to follow the prompts. But for today, we get to enjoy an intro into this philosophy and learn some actionable takeaways to help us implement ideas to encourage a more peaceful home.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Emily.
Emily Kiser: Oh, I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Laura Dugger: My pleasure. We are going to begin by going back. So, how did you come to meet and follow Jesus Christ? [00:02:20]
Emily Kiser: Well, I always am a little trepidatious answering this question because I have been a believer for as long as I can remember. I don't remember a day that I didn't know about God, know that He sent His Son to die for me, and that that was the only path to salvation. Obviously, my faith has grown and deepened as I've gotten older, but as far as I know, I've always trusted in Jesus.
Laura Dugger: That is incredible. At what point did you also encounter Charlotte Mason?
Emily Kiser: Well, I personally was homeschooled only for the first three years of my formal education, and then I went to public school and through all the way through high school graduation. And then I went to a private Christian college. And then I moved home after graduation. That's a whole other story.
At that time, I wasn't really against homeschooling, but I never thought I would home-educate my own children if I ever had any. [00:03:21]
But I have always loved books. I started a private lending library with my mother out of our home, and we supported local homeschooling families. And it was through that library that we started giving seminars about how to use the type of books that we had in our library, which we call living books, in whatever homeschool method our patrons were using. We just wanted them to be able to use our resource that we had available to them.
And so through that, I just very vaguely knew about Charlotte Mason as one of the major methods of home education. But I didn't really meet her until I started reading her books aloud to my mom, who is blind, and they were not at that time available. She couldn't get them in Braille, and they were not available on audio. So I was about 25 or 26 years old at that time, but that was all it took. I just fell in love with her method. [00:04:20]
Well, I had various experience myself with different educational paradigms, both at home and in my public and private college education. And then I had spent several years while we were developing the library, reading about different educational philosophies, especially classical education. But when I encountered Charlotte Mason's method, I just recognized the truth that she wrote about. I absolutely agreed with her that the foundation for education lies in the Gospels and Jesus's words about how we were to treat and view our children.
From there, I just began helping my mom, who was at the time homeschooling my very much younger siblings who were adopted. And we just tried to implement her method as much as we could.
So both of my younger brothers have fairly severe learning challenges, but I saw them flourish. And so I knew if this method of education could respect them as persons and enable them to grow and make progress and still enjoy learning, that it would work for anyone. [00:05:25] And so from that time on, her philosophy has not only shaped my vision for education, but has also changed me as a person. I don't like to think about what kind of mother I would be now if the Lord hadn't brought this mentor in Charlotte Mason into my life when He did.
Laura Dugger: You are the mother of four children who you are home-educating. Can you remind us of their ages?
Emily Kiser: Sure. I have a nine-year-old, an almost eight-year-old, an almost six-year-old daughter. All the rest are boys. My daughter is about to start formal lessons this coming school year. And then my youngest is four.
Laura Dugger: Okay. You and I are in a very similar stage of life. But I would love for you to unpack a few points from Charlotte Mason's philosophy of education. So I'm just going to read some of her quotes and then I'll allow you to elaborate. She writes that "there are three educational instruments, the atmosphere of environment, the discipline of habit, and the presentation of living ideas." So will you share what this means for us today?[00:06:37]
Emily Kiser: Mm-hmm. This is from one of her mottos that was adopted by her school of education as an atmosphere. A discipline and a life is another shorter way to say that same idea. Charlotte Mason taught us that these are the only three instruments that we as teachers, as parents, that we can use without infringing on the personhood of our students.
The environment that they find themselves in is largely controlled by the teacher and especially by us mothers. Kind of if you want to think about it in the way she describes it, is the air around them. We're not even really aware, but it clearly affects everything about us. So our attitude towards our children, the rhythms and routines that we establish, the things that we choose to expose them to or not, those are all part of that atmosphere. So that is still very relevant for us today.
The second part is maybe the one that most people have trouble with when they hear education is a discipline. [00:07:36] They may think or misunderstand what she's saying, and they might equate that with punishment. But that is not at all what Charlotte Mason meant.
She used that term "discipline" in conjunction with the habits that we form as persons and that we help our children to form in themselves. So it's much more helpful if we equate discipline with term discipleship, which is really their synonyms. So disciples strive to become like their masters.
Throughout Christianity, we have understood how the habits or practices of our lives shape us more and more into the image of Christ. And Charlotte Mason believed that the physical habits that we develop form habits in our brains. And modern research has revealed that to be true, confirmed what she knew kind of in proto-science that was happening at her time.
But because of this, the entirety of her method is structured to encourage habits of the good life. She called it like attention and the habit of obedience and the habit of kindness or honesty and on and on and on. [00:08:42] So if we are training our children in these things, then that will shape them as persons and helps them live a more smooth and easy life that's not beset by as many troubles as those who are undisciplined, you might say.
Then the third instrument is the presentation of living ideas. This is perhaps the most direct or vital instrument that we have at our disposal as mothers, as teachers. Charlotte Mason believed that the mind needed ideas in order to grow. And she often referred to ideas as mind food. So living ideas are those ideas that take on a life of their own inside ourselves. The things that we can't stop thinking about, that they go in deep and really shape and mold us as people as we digest them by thinking about them more and interacting with them.
So that is the main consideration that we make as we consider what our children should learn about. And that's why I say presentation of living ideas is probably the most direct, although the others are definitely informed by parents as well. [00:09:51]
Laura Dugger: Can you even give a recent example in your own family of what a living idea looked like?
Emily Kiser: Oh, my goodness. I always am at a loss when I'm put on the spot to come up with examples. One that sticks out in my mind because we just visited there is we went to Tuskegee Institute on the way home from our recent vacation. That was because one of my children who was in school read a biography of him about a year ago and has asked consistently, "can we go visit his laboratory, which they turned into a museum?" ever since then.
So he had this idea, he had this connection from reading about this man, and he so desired, he wanted to go and visit and see the things. And he said, "Oh, mom, are they going to have some of his rocks?" Because the book that we read had described his rock collection that he carried with him wherever he went.
And so just to see that excitement and interest persist over this last year, and then that he already had a connection with this man in this museum. [00:11:00] And I think the rangers at the museum were a little taken with how interested they were.
Laura Dugger: I love that. Because I've always envisioned it as even just sharing, maybe from our own quiet time with the Lord, a scripture that really stood out to us or reading a book together. It sounds like the options are really limitless.
Emily Kiser: Absolutely. That reminds me of another, actually the same child. And he's done this a couple of times. But in our Bible lessons, I will open up and ask an open-ended question after we've read the passage from scripture, and then they've narrated or told back to me in their own words what the story was about.
So we just recently read the parable of the vineyard where the vineyard owner hires workers at the beginning of the day, and then he goes out later at the middle of the day and hires more, and then he hires some at the end of the day and then pays them all the same wage. And I asked, well, Jesus said at the beginning of this parable, the kingdom of God is like, and what do you think that is? And so the words of scripture here are giving that living idea. [00:12:05]
And my seven, almost eight-year-old said, without any hesitation, well, the vineyard owner is God and the workers that were hired at the beginning of the day are like those people who've been Christians their whole lives. And those hired at the end of the day are those who have become Christians like four seconds before they die. He was very precise about that.
And I said, "Okay, and what was the wage that they earned?" And he said that Jesus died on the cross to save them from their sin. And I was just so blown away that the words of scripture could just immediately communicate that truth to him when his own disciples, who had lived with him for years, had a problem understanding what he was talking about. But that is a true living idea.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that's an amazing example. And really, this conversation reminds me of another one of Charlotte's quotes where she says, "Education is a life. The need of intellectual and moral as well as of physical sustenance is implied. [00:13:08] The mind feeds on ideas and therefore children should have a generous curriculum." So is there anything else you would like to add about ways to give our children a generous supply of ideas?
Emily Kiser: Well, I think the main thing to keep in mind is that we do need to be spreading a wide feast of ideas. And just those examples show that children are really hungry, the two examples I shared about my son, that they're hungry for those ideas.
But also we can't control which ideas are going to spark living thought for our children. And so because of that, we recognize the seriousness of our duty to supply ideas. But also we have humility at the same time because we are not directing, Oh, my child needs X from my point of view, I'm going to give them this living idea. You know, our hands are kind of tied at that point.
But we don't want to waste time giving our students busy work or letting them drown their minds in what Charlotte Mason called What Is Twaddle which she described as the mental equivalent of eating sawdust for our brains. [00:14:18] We want to spread a wide feast. That's kind of the tagline of our podcast because we see it as this beautiful metaphor for the whole method that Charlotte Mason laid out for us.
So that means to spread a wide feast would be exposing our students to a varied curriculum that would include subjects well beyond the three R's such as humanities and STEM subjects, but taught via living books, because that is what Charlene Mason believed the best medium to convey these living ideas.
And I think we probably all know, but maybe we don't always articulate in the same way, that humans are especially created to absorb information in a literary form. And that's why we always remember the sermon illustration more than necessarily the exposition, right? We connect with the story and it sparks our imagination and captures our attention.
And so because we were created that way, we learn best through living books. I would say supply a wide variety of living books. [00:15:21] Make sure you're giving your children ideas about all kinds of things and not just one thing.
But we also learn from hands-on observation besides living books. The wide feast is also full of material objects that would give us living ideas, too, from the study of the natural world or nature study, as we call it, the world that God created, all the way to science experiments or maps and pictures and music and singing.
So all of those things, I would say, help give your child a supply of ideas that are going to meet each one where he is and give them plenty of nourishment to take as he needs, he himself as a unique individual needs.
Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
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[00:18:02] <music>
Laura Dugger: Could you also give us an example of the material objects and what that looks like?
Emily Kiser: Sure. This is probably the easiest one in order. You know, it's sometimes hard to learn how to discern living books, but as far as material objects, the number one would be, get outside and ask questions. Like ask questions of yourself. Like, I wonder why this is doing this, or I wonder what this flower's name is, or I wonder why I see this kind of plant over here and this kind of plant over there? And just start to notice and pay attention to the things outside our door.
This is applicable to anybody, no matter where they live. I happen to live in the country on several acres of land. And so people think, oh, you're so lucky and have all this at your fingertips. But honestly, I'm not walking from place to place as much as people in the city who might learn much more, you know, these specific trees and their neighborhoods or see the same birds or get to actually study a squirrel's behavior far more than I do. So I would say that's the best.[00:19:06]
And then, you know, I just think of art. I mean, that's a personal interest of mine, but it was developed by my blind mother and my father who had no education. But they thought it was important. We lived in a small town away from a big city. And so every time we went on a trip or were passing through a big city, we always went to museums and saw objects of art. No exposition. There was no instruction. It was just exposure. And I think that that's another easy one.
Wonderful music. A wide variety, classical music as well as folk songs, those are all wonderful things to do.
And then to make experiments. Like if your child has a question about why something is instead of just getting the answer to allow them to have the time to wrestle with and explore and ask that question and wonder and then maybe find an experiment that would help come to that conclusion that they can participate in through that experience. [00:20:05]
Laura Dugger: I love that example, too, because I don't have it memorized, but there is brain science that backs this up. I believe in the way God created us that when we go to interest-led learning, I believe it's dopamine that comes in our brain and washes over us. Is that right?
Emily Kiser: I think that's right. I've read similar things, too. Yeah.
Laura Dugger: Well, and this is perhaps my favorite point of Charlotte Mason's philosophy. But she writes, "We should allow no separation to grow up between the intellectual and spiritual life of children, but should teach them that the divine spirit has constant access to their spirits and is their continual helper in all the interests, duties and joys of life." So, Emily, what are some examples of ways we can live this out as we disciple our own children?
Emily Kiser: Yes, that's a great question. So first, this is a culmination. Charlotte Mason kind of distilled her six volumes of educational thought at the time. [00:21:09] It was not that many because one of them was published after she died. But all of the things that she had written about her philosophy, she distilled into what she called a short synopsis. And this is the last point of that short synopsis.
And the reason that she says there is no separation or we should not allow any separation to grow up between the intellectual and, quote, "spiritual life" is because she believed ideas were central to education, and really, to us as persons. An idea is a spiritual thing, right? We may get it from a material source like a plant or a book, but the actual idea is of the spirit world. And so the way that we deal with them is as spiritual beings.
So she did not believe that there was materialistic education because all education has to be spiritual. So that's just a kind of foundational idea of her method. But this other part of that, we have to go back to the first principle or the first step point in that short synopsis that she says children are born persons. [00:22:12]
Because when we recognize that the person in front of us, our child, no matter how small they are, is not our own possession, and we teach her that she is not her own possession, either, that she belongs to God, we believe that she can and ought to have a relationship with her creator. She is a fully formed person, a fellow image bearer who deserves dignity and respect, as well as correction and training.
So we don't talk down to our children. We expect that they can understand far more than they can communicate when they're little, perhaps. But we also need to trust the Holy Spirit to give insight to them and instruct them. We ourselves need to rely on that same Holy Spirit to gain insight into our children that he has entrusted to us.
So as much as I can, I talk to my kids about the relationship that they are made for with their creator. [00:23:13] And as they express that belief, I talk about the Holy Spirit as their divine helper. I just had a conversation with my daughter the other day who was having a hard time getting control of herself when she was angry. And after she calmed down, she said, "God can help me." And I'm like, "That is right." I think it's kind of starting to sink in that all of these conversations that I've had with her over her life, that He is her help. And she may not be able to gain control, but she has the Holy Spirit who has promised that that's one of the fruits that He gives us is self-control.
Also, that whenever they have any need, that they can turn to Him. So when something wonderful or delightful happens to a child, we always thank God for His good gifts. When I'm correcting a child, I discuss their duties that God has given them to obey, to be kind, love one another. Those are kind of always the ones that are at the forefront of our conversation. [00:24:15]
And then we just read the Bible with them from the age of six on. They are reading the words of Scripture. I'm not reading necessarily all of the most gory passages from Scripture, but we are reading the words of Scripture because that is a way that they're building their relationship with their divine teacher.
So we discuss spiritual things. And all of that that I've been saying really has created an atmosphere that teaches them that God is omnipresent and he desires to know and to be known by them.
Laura Dugger: That is beautiful. Another term Charlotte uses is mother culture, but this may be a new term to some of us. So will you teach us what mother culture is all about?
Emily Kiser: Sure. You know, I don't know if Charlotte Mason used it, but she talks about the idea for sure. It is a term that was coined by another writer in the Parents Review, which was an educational magazine that she edited. [00:25:16]
And it refers to the duty of us as mothers to continue to educate ourselves. This is for practical reasons. We need to know things in order to care for or raise or educate our children. We don't have that. I wish we did. But we don't have all of that knowledge just downloaded to us the moment we have a child brought into this world. So we need to continue to learn.
But also, besides the practical aspects of it, we need to share intellectual development as our own persons. And so that process of learning and to continue to learn at our own level as adults gives us an understanding sympathy that Charlotte Mason said was absolutely essential in our relationship with our children because we need to understand the work that they're going through. And that really creates a camaraderie and a rapport with them as they learn new things.
And also it broadens our own interests. [00:26:16] It gives us as mothers, which sometimes we feel lost in the process of raising and caring for children because it is such an all-consuming task. But it gives us a fuller life and then models that for our children, that we are always learning and growing. And that doesn't stop when we graduate from school.
Charlotte Mason, when she was living, which was a while ago, obviously over... she died a hundred years ago. She developed a mother's education course at the time when it was not... I mean, just the first women were even being able to go to university and get degrees. So she was, I think, ahead of her time. But she developed a formal mother's education course that assigned work for the year. They had exams, they had to write papers kind of a thing.
So we at Delectable Education, we have created an informal book list and it's modeled on that course. And that can be a great place to start if you are like, "I don't even know what I should be reading." [00:27:16] And it has stretched us as well because we don't always read in all these categories ourselves. But that has been a great, great learning experience for us. And we are about to publish, I think, our fourth year of that list. So there's no exams, there's no papers due. You can read them in any order, pick and choose titles. But that's a good place to start.
Laura Dugger: Well, and you're talking about reading. Charlotte Mason definitely exhorts parents to read aloud and also encourage their children to read only the best books and to read them often. Emily, what acronym have you created to explain exactly what a living book is?
Emily Kiser: Okay, so it uses the word LIVING. It's very creative. I don't know why, but it seems to fit and encapsulate all of the things that we were wanting to say about it or distill all the things that Charlotte Mason says about what makes a living book. [00:28:17]
So the L is for literary power. That means the language itself is wonderful. It's worthy of notice. It's words so perfectly chosen that the mind grasps them and images are created. That is true literary power. Charlotte Mason said that a book without literary power was like having beautiful pictures painted that you could not see because your eyes were covered or being introduced to people who do not live and act in your thoughts. A lack of literary power is just crippling for our intellect because it lacks a beauty sense. So something beautiful about how the words have been chosen.
Then the first I is for living ideas. The ideas that capture the imagination. They plant a seed that germinates in the mind and causes one to continue to wonder and ponder it. [00:29:15] And even to pursue further knowledge about the subject, as we were talking about earlier, the ideas really take hold of us. And there are so many books full of living ideas.
What is even more wonderful is that different ideas in the same book can grab hold of us each in different ways. Even grab us at different times in our life. I think about books I've read over and over and how new things strike me because I have different experience and have grown since the last time I read it. So what one child grasps or excites his imagination, another might overlook in favor of a different idea.
Now V is for virtuous. So living books are those that exemplify virtue or virtuous living. So the characters like us struggle to make the right decision. But they ultimately do or sometimes dire consequences occur. When we connect with a living book, the characters and figures in it become real people to us, even if they're fictional.[00:30:19] And we can live vicariously through their choices.
So let's take A Little Princess, for example. I loved this book as a child and still do. So in this story, Sarah, who was used to having all of the best possessions that many could buy, she was a very, very indulged child, all of a sudden has become destitute. Her life has become very hard. And she has found just a small amount of money and she is so hungry. And she goes to this bakery and looks in the window and sees these hot buns and she just is so overcome. She's going to spend her money on that because she is so hungry.
But as she's going into the shop, she sees a small beggar girl who's even hungrier and more poor than herself. And she has this internal battle, Do I share this food that I could eat all of? And it wouldn't even touch my hunger. But she has more need of it. [00:31:19]
So as you read this story, you're caught up in this, you know, what would you do kind of a thing. And so children are going to identify with that. They're also going to identify with her struggle as she kind of has to force herself to do the right thing. The best living books are going to do that in a way that's not moralistic or preachy to the child. But they're just reading the story and they're captivated because they identify and have identified with Sarah's plight.
But that doesn't mean that all of the characters are always going to make right choices or be examples of virtue in every circumstance.
Another famous example would be Pinocchio, who mostly never does the right thing. Right? And he has disastrous results as he pursues his own desires. So this type of living example can also be instructive for the reader as the bad choices result in consequences. And after struggling with a character like Pinocchio, we are overjoyed when he finally chooses the harder path to love and serve another above himself. [00:32:24]
So the second I is for inspiring. Living books are inspiring when the author is passionate about their subject and they transmit that passion to the reader. This is the major reason why textbooks are not considered living books for the most part, because they're written by multiple authors or committees whose members may individually be passionate. But that gets lost in a collaboration on a text. But a passionate author also does not water down or predigest their subject as they write it for the reader. But they want to pass on their own knowledge and do it in such a way that their interests become ours.
N in living is for narrative. When we think about books that are narrative, that could mean books that are told like a story. And there are so many living books that that is true of, both fiction as well as nonfiction. But narrative doesn't always take that form. [00:33:23]
The use of wonderful language and imagery can evoke such vivid pictures in our mind's eye that we see what is being described. And we understand it better than if all the facts were just listed. Charlotte Mason said living books put the flesh on dry bones of facts. And the narrative quality of a book does just that.
It also means that living books can be narrated. So narration is when we tell back the ideas. You've probably heard the famous quote, it's been attributed to many people: that you don't know anything until you can explain it to someone else. That is essentially what narration is.
So when narrative quality is present in a living book, we're able to comprehend those ideas and to organize the material that we just took in and then relate any previous knowledge and experience that we ourselves may have and then tell others about it, what we read or heard.
And sometimes it does take a little bit of time to be able to narrate a book. Sometimes a book is tough and we have to chew on it for a little while before we can distill that. [00:34:29] Or sometimes it's a hard topic that we don't quite know, but we hear about these things that we read with our kids later on as they've had some time to wrestle with it.
Narrative books make us feel like we've actually had those experiences that are being described, but we haven't had to experience them ourselves, which can be very beneficial in things that we wouldn't really want our children to have to go through themselves, but they can vicariously do that in a narrative book. Then finally, G is for generational.
Living books are generational because they are enjoyed over and over throughout life and from one generation to the next. Most classic books got to be called such because they've been enjoyed by people over and over throughout history and they speak to us because they contain a bit of the truth of the human condition.
And so different details like different time periods and the dress and technology, they don't stand in the way of us enjoying and learning from a book because they convey essential truth in the ideas that remain relevant to us. [00:35:35]
C.S. Lewis wrote several great essays about that concept in his book of Other Worlds. He said, "No book is really worth reading at the age of 10, which is not equally and often far more worth reading at the age of 50, except of course, books of information. The only imaginative works we ought to grow out of are those which it would have been better not to have read at all."
So all six of those letters can be kind of a test for what a living book is and they can all be distilled into this one overarching principle that living books capture our imagination. And we are changed and moved by these books so that after reading one, we are never exactly the same again. So that's the kind of book we have in our library and that Shalom Mason expected us to use and present to our children.
Laura Dugger: I think you're probably making all of us eager to read. [00:36:35] It would be helpful to have a few titles that you recommend. So I won't ask you what your favorite books are, but what are a few titles that come to mind that your children have enjoyed recently or they really stand out to you from childhood?
Emily Kiser: Well, I mentioned A Little Princess. I actually do have three favorite children's books. I have narrowed it down to those three. The first is a small, unassuming book that has been reprinted so you can still get it called A Tree for Peter by Kate Seredy. And we and our family read this very regularly. Most Christmases we read it. It's like, I don't know, six chapters or something like that. It has some beautiful illustrations.
Little Britches by Ralph Moody. And that's one we all have enjoyed as a family as well. His exploits and things that his parents have taught him have kind of made their way into our family conversations and anecdotes.
Roller Skates by Ruth Sawyer. [00:37:38] Let's see. The Pilgrim's Progress has been a favorite of my boys. We read that for school. And it's just shocking to me because a lot of adults, even myself, have a hard time reading it and understanding what's going on. And they took to it like ducks take to water. And yeah, things come up often that I know they got from that book.
Laura Dugger: Well, that is so helpful. Thank you for giving us a few examples to get started. If you've benefited in any way from The Savvy Sauce, we would love to invite you to become a patron. If every listener gave just $1 per month, it would completely offset all our production costs. We want to keep majority of our content free to the public. And one way to do that is with your help. Please consider joining Patreon today and finding out what perks you can receive for pledging $2, $5, or even $20 per month. [00:38:35]
Another Charlotte Mason idea is laying an educational feast before our children, which you've alluded to. But will you share a few more elements of what all is included in that feast?
Emily Kiser: Sure. So, off the top of my head, I probably will miss them, but on a regular basis each week, we cover in our school lessons Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament, language arts of a wide variety, math, natural history, and science, artist study where we look at pictures by famous artists, multiple pictures over the course of a school term, composer study where we listen to multiple works by a famous composer, literature, poetry, Shakespeare, history, geography, recitation, which is not so much memorizing, although that often happens, but it's learning to speak beautifully, to say and read in such a way that you impart meaning to your audience so they understand the text better themselves, citizenship, physical education, singing, handicrafts. [00:39:48] Oh, and art. Like we make, we draw and do watercolor painting and things like that ourselves.
Laura Dugger: A huge variety of things.
Emily Kiser: So those are just during the school morning. And then in the afternoons, there's of course a lot of free time because our morning lessons, Charlotte Mason was adamant, needed to be short and confined to specific times of day so that our students have time to kind of interact with those materials on their own schedule.
The mornings, packing all of that into short morning lessons can seem like a whirlwind, but then they have hours in the outdoor where they can explore nature in a more intentional way and just have freedom to roam and play and use their bodies and their lungs to a much better capacity than they do inside. And we do drawing and some of our handicrafts and folk dancing and reading aloud as our afternoon occupations. [00:40:50] So a lot of things that help spread that wide feast.
Laura Dugger: Well, this all sounds so wonderful. If we desire to lay this feast before our children, how do you recommend that we manage our time so that we can fit everything in? Because I'm even thinking of the time it would take to prepare these lessons to share with the children.
Emily Kiser: Sure. Yes. So there is a lot. And I would say it can be burdensome for those of us who were not raised this way and it's not a natural part of our life, but I think it is so worth it when... like I'm looking out the window right now and all of my children have their bike helmets on. They've been whipping around, and now they're building a fort under some trees. And just the creativity and interest that they have is just so worth it.
So the first thing you should know is this is not an hour on each of these things every day. It's short lessons. That was another tenant of Charlotte Mason's method. So in the school morning, which for the lower elementary was only two and a half hours maximum, lessons would range from 10 to 20 minutes tops. [00:42:00]
So we do a lot of things each day. We don't do everything every day. Then the time gradually increases. My upper elementary student has three hours and it goes up to about four hours of formal bookwork lessons in a morning, even in high school. That's the cap on their time. So it is rather intense for those moments.
And so we have to guard, as parents and teachers, have to guard those hours in order to do this. If we think the Wide Feast is worthy pursuit and we agree with Charlotte Mason that they need this wide array of living ideas, we do need to consider our own schedules.
We also have to recognize with that much intense work in the mornings, which it's fairly enjoyable for them because they're moving from one thing to another. They don't have time to get bored or let their mind wander. You know, dawdling over one math problem for that long, it's just the math lesson is going to be over and it's time to move on to something else. [00:43:00]
But because it is intense time for their brains, they do need time and space in the afternoons beyond lessons to be able to kind of process a lot of those things. So I think that, for us, has to be reflected and guarded against as well in how much out-of-the-home commitments we ourselves make either for our children or for ourselves. That we can't be running errands every day and not having just some wide space in our days.
And so, yeah, I think time management of ourselves, diligence and consistency and getting up and getting meals ready on time and starting school, those all help to make that successful. But as far as fitting it all in, the method and the timetable really helps us achieve that during our school day.
Laura Dugger: And then for you personally, when do you prepare these lessons?
Emily Kiser: Mm-hmm. So I'm a little unusual in that I have been studying Charlotte Mason... well, I had been studying Charlotte Mason for 10 years before I had any children of my own. So that is not normally the case. Part of my work is I help develop school plans and choose books and resources for families to use as they implement Charlotte Mason. [00:44:17] So that part does not take me nearly as much effort as another person.
But as I do the bulk of my planning for the forthcoming school year, I try to have that done before summer because of my own personal schedule. But most people do that during the summer before. So I know what books we have. I've even kind of paced those out in a way so I kind of know how much we can cover in a single day or a single week lesson.
And then while we're in school, each day at the end of the day, as we're putting our materials away, I take about 20 minutes and look at that day the following week and prepare less. I just skim over anything that might need to be skimmed. I pull any extra resources that I might need. And I just have a little system for doing that each day so that I'm kind of spreading my planning out instead of doing it on a weekend day, which I know a lot of people do as well. That just does not work for me personally. It would just never get done. So I do a little bit every day to help facilitate that. [00:45:20]
Laura Dugger: Okay, that's helpful to hear how you implement it. I'm just going to limit myself to one more Charlotte Mason quote where she simply writes, "Our aim in education is to give a full life." That always reminds me of what Jesus said in John 10:10, The thief does not come except to steal and to kill and to destroy. I have come that they may have life and that they may have it more abundantly.
Emily Kiser: Amen.
Laura Dugger: Emily, how can we all lay this feast before our children, regardless of the child's method of schooling?
Emily Kiser: Well, I agree with Charlotte Mason that a full life depends on this broad exposure to all kinds of ideas. And so I think no matter what method of schooling we're doing, we can look at our coursework. We can supplement anything that they may be getting in a more traditional school setting by exposing them to other subjects. [00:46:20]
So when our educational goals are very narrow, it does tend to lead to a restricted life. I'm reading currently a beautiful book about the unintended effects of modern farming. And over and over something that has just struck a chord and it resonates with me based on my experience with Charlotte Mason, that he says specialization is death or something to that effect.
And in his case, the farming practices that raise just one type of crop have literally destroyed the ecosystem in that area. And it ultimately harms that single crop too, as the soil deteriorates and other natural things aren't building it up. So I think that is an apt metaphor for our children.
If we raise them only to focus on one single career goal, or if we train them to measure success by financial gain, then they're going to be stifled. The ecosystem of their souls are going to be diminished. [00:47:22] And so in order to avoid that, we want them to be curious about all kinds of things in all different subject areas.
So we can do that by giving equal importance to picture study, as much as math, for example. As we are curious and continue to learn ourselves, we're modeling that intellectual habit for our children. So I told you earlier that we just went to Tuskegee to see George Washington Carver's laboratory. He was an amazing man. And what was so striking to me is that he did so much to help others around him with his immense curiosity and his interest in all sorts of things.
He was a scientist. He had a rock collection. He didn't study the science of geology. He was fascinated by them. But he also was a painter and a knitter. And they had examples of both of his works there at the museum.
One quote that he said, and I think goes along with this conversation, he said, "No individual has any right to come into the world and go out of it without leaving behind him distinct and legitimate reasons for having passed through it." [00:48:28] And that just was so challenging to me personally. But I see in the life that he lived that he did carry that out, and it was a very full life, and it touched so many people beyond him.
Laura Dugger: Well, and Emily, you have done so much work that can benefit all of us listening. So where can we go online to learn more about the work that you have to offer?
Emily Kiser: Well, the first place probably would be our podcast, A Delectable Education. It is on every podcast platform that you might want. We are wrapping up our eighth year of podcasting, so we have over 250 episodes. So you could do a really deep dive if you wanted.
We also have many teacher help and other resources available on our website, which is adelectableeducation.com.
I also do have a website for our library. It's not maintained as much since I have had children and have educated them and have done all of the work with our podcast. But that is livingbookslibrary.com. [00:49:28]
And we do have book lists if you wanted more ideas about living books. We have top picks on different subjects, even, that you can find books about different subjects if you're interested in just some suggestions.
If you'd like to widen your own feast with picture study, I've produced some picture study portfolios and Bible picture portfolios that are available at simplycharlottemason.com. We also have Facebook and Instagram accounts, both under A Delectable Education.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will link to all of that in the show notes for today's episode. And you may be familiar we are called The Savvy Sauce, because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Emily Kiser: Well, it wouldn't surprise you if you listen to this conversation, but really the daily rhythms and household habits and routines that we have. I don't know that I would have developed them as extensively without Charlotte Mason's guidance, but it is literally how I accomplish all of the things that I do. [00:50:35] And for the most part, it helps our home run smoothly.
So everything that I can turn into a habit, I do. I cook during school breaks. I stock our freezer and have a month-long meal rotation that we just cycle through over and over throughout the school year. And my kids have tasks that they do at set times of the day. We kind of peg those basically around meals, and that eliminates so much thought on my part and also constant nagging to get them to do things. So I don't know where I would be without those.
Laura Dugger: And I said that was my final question, but I guess I now have a follow-up. Can you give any more of those specific things that your children do or other things that you have set as a habit?
Emily Kiser: The thing about habits and all of our routines, they are born out of necessity, and the moments that have been like the trying times consistently, when I notice there's a pattern to when people are melting down or things that just are causing constant frustration. [00:51:33] So that's always the point that I look to to determine, how can I make this go smoother?
The other thing is that they build so incrementally. If I were to lay that all out for you, it would probably be overwhelming for most people, but it did not start that way. It was, I have all of this time with this newborn, how are we going to get a general structure to our day?
So with meals, the first thing I started with was before we have a meal, we pick up all of the toys that we had. So that is just a constant thing that continues to this day. When we finish school, we put everything away and then we have lunch. We have free time outside most of the time in the afternoon, and then they can come in and do some of their occupations like drawing and handicrafts that I talked about. And then that stuff gets all picked up before dinner.
So it's the routines that I started early, or however they start generally build and get more involved. And they all have specific household chores. I basically reset those in the summer. And then we have time to practice and get used to them before kind of dethrows of the school year is upon us again. [00:52:41]
So for the last year, my seven-year-old has been responsible for cleaning the kitchen up after every meal because my now nine-year-old did that last year. And he's moved on to some of the laundry and cleaning a bathroom. So they do a lot, but it has all been incremental, if that makes sense.
Laura Dugger: Yes, that is so helpful to hear practical examples. So thank you for sharing. And really, Emily, this has just been such a privilege to have this conversation with you. And it makes me so excited for what's ahead as we dive into this mini-series with your colleagues. So I hope everybody listening subscribes to Patreon so you don't miss parts two and three.
But Emily, you are just a lovely teacher and I appreciate you sharing your gifting with us today. So thank you for being my guest.
Emily Kiser: Oh, it is my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? [00:53:42] It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:54:43]
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:55:44]
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Apr 10, 2023
Monday Apr 10, 2023
203. Heaven Bound with Robert Wolgemuth
**Transcription Below**
"Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds." John 12:24 (NIV)
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
- Why is this Scripture is especially meaningful to you: "Unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds." John 12:24b
- What have you learned about Heaven through your own loss of your late wife?
- In your unique line of work, will you share specific stories of interesting people you have encountered and lessons learned from them?
Robert Wolgemuth has been in the media business for thirty-nine years. A former president of Thomas Nelson Publishers, he is the founder of Wolgemuth & Associates, a literary agency exclusively representing the writing work of more than one hundred authors.
Robert is a speaker and best-selling author of over twenty books. His books include, She Calls Me Daddy, the notes to the Dad’s Devotional Bible, The Most Important Place on Earth, She Still Calls Me Daddy, and What’s in the Bible: The Story of God through Time and Eternity, co- written with R.C. Sproul. His other collaborative works include Men of the Bible and The Most Important Year in a Man’s Life.
Robert is known as a champion for the family, effective communication, leadership, listening skills, relationship building, and biblical truth. Among his professional accomplishments, he has served two terms as the Chairman of the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association. A 1969 graduate of Taylor University, from where he received an honorary doctorate in May 2005, Dr. Wolgemuth has two grown daughters, two sons-in-law, and five grandchildren. Robert is married to Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth, who is the host of the daily radio/podcast, “Revive Our Hearts.” She is also an accomplished author and speaker. Nancy and Robert live in Michigan.
Finish Line on Amazon or from Revive Our Hearts
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: Thank you to an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank, who paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Learn more about this amazing non-profit organization at MidwestFoodBank.org.
Robert Wolgemuth is my guest today, and this is a conversation we all need to hear. We get to talk about heaven and loss and his latest book, Finish Line. Robert is a wonderful storyteller, and this conversation will linger in your mind long after it ends. I hope that you are richly blessed by spending your time with me, as now we get to hear Robert's story.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Robert.
Robert Wolgemuth: Thank you, Laura. It's an honor to be with you.
Laura Dugger: Well, I'd love to start with just getting a little bit of context. [00:01:18] So, will you take us back to when you surrendered your life to Jesus?
Robert Wolgemuth: Yes, I would be happy to. You know, you hear stories about praying at your mother's knee. That's exactly what happened to me. My mother and dad, three siblings at the time, lived in South Central Pennsylvania. And my daddy was the pastor of a church. And we went to a movie. Now, that's a crazy thing because we didn't go to movies.
My first movie I was a senior in high school. But we went to a movie, it was like in the community center, and it was a movie called Mr. Texas. And it was the story of a singer-songwriter named Red Harper. And it was his story of coming to faith in Christ. And so, when the movie was over, I was on the back row... I mean, this is what you read about, right? I was in the back row, and I said to my mother, my precious mother, "I would like to receive Jesus as my Savior." So, I knelt, literally, in the dark, in the back of the auditorium, and prayed to receive Christ. [00:02:22]
A really fun side note. Erwin Lutzer, who was for years the pastor of Moody Church in downtown Chicago, and I were sharing stories of our conversions, and he said, "I know this sounds crazy." He said, "Well, I was a little boy, and I went to see a movie called Mr. Texas." And I said, are you serious? So, the very same story Dr. Erwin Lutzer and me have in coming to faith in Christ because of a movie, which is amazing, actually.
So, I had the privilege of growing up in a Christian home, and I'm so thankful for that. My parents loved each other, and they loved us, and they had a vision for missions around the world. And so, we spent a couple years on the mission field. So, I'm very grateful. But because of my family, I was able to be exposed to the gospel. And that's how it started.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that is incredible. You also have a fascinating career. Will you tell us more about the work you get to do? [00:03:22]
Robert Wolgemuth: Fascinating career. You mean I've not been able to hold down a job, so I've got a great resume? Is that what you're saying?
Well, right out of college, I spent five years actually working for Youth for Christ, the ministry called Youth for Christ, with high school students. I gained an amazing appreciation for people who are in youth work, especially lifetime youth work. If you can be successful in youth work, you can do anything.
And so I had six years of that and the joy of leading young people to Christ. Then at the end of that six years, I was invited to join Youth for Christ in the magazine division, publishing a magazine called Campus Life Magazine. That was my first exposure to the publishing world. I got to work alongside people like Tim Stafford and Philip Yancey. I mean, what a joy. And those guys continue to be close friends 60 years later. [00:04:23]
So, that was my introduction to the publishing business. And then, after a few years of that, I was invited to come to Waco, Texas, and join Word Publishing. That was book publishing, but first it was magazine publishing. So, this was book publishing. And so, I haven't left that industry. That was my introduction to it and I'm still doing the same thing. I mean, not the same thing, but still in the same industry.
In fact, I tell young people sometimes when I'm invited to speak at graduate schools or colleges, if you can find an industry that you love, stay there. Because I have 60 years of friendships with people in this industry. And it's amazing. I'm so grateful for that.
Lots of younger people skip from one industry to the other, one job to the other. But if you find one that you like, and you feel like you could spend your lifetime doing that, stay there. [00:05:24]
So, I went from Waco, Texas, to Nashville, Tennessee. I was the president of Thomas Nelson Communications, which was the non-Bible publishing at Thomas Nelson. And eventually, with a colleague named Michael Hyatt, started an agency, a literary agency, representing authors.
So, I bought him out in 98 and spent the rest of my career so far representing authors as an agent. So, I've had the privilege of speaking into the lives of people whose names you would know, and receiving from them wisdom and understanding and friendship. So, it's been a thrill.
Laura Dugger: I can imagine that it is. Are there any specific stories that come to mind of those friends that you've encountered, or even specific lessons that you've learned from soaking in all that wisdom?
Robert Wolgemuth: Well, yeah, there is a story. I don't know if you follow country music. [00:06:25] So, my late wife, Bobbie, and I lived in Nashville for 17 years. And if you're not a country music fan when you go there, you're exposed to it whether you want to or not.
So, I taught a large Sunday school class at First Presbyterian Church in Nashville. And one day, one of my friends came up to me and said, "Did you know that Denise Jackson is in our Sunday school class? I said, "Okay, who's Denise Jackson?" And she said, "Well, she's the wife of Alan Jackson." And I said... You know what I'm going to say, don't you? I said, "Who's Alan Jackson?" There are people right now listening, Laura, who've just hit the end key. They don't want to listen to somebody who doesn't know who Alan Jackson is. So, with apologies, I was pretty new in Nashville, and I had no exposure to country music.
Well, long story short, and a wonderful story, really, a couple weeks later, Denise approached my late wife, Bobbie, and introduced herself. [00:07:28] Of course, my wife said the same thing I said. Denise said, "My name is Denise Jackson." And Bobbie said, "Oh, that's wonderful. Do I know you?" "Well, I'm the wife of Alan Jackson." "Well, that's great. Who's Alan Jackson?"
Well, the truth is that that was during the time that they were separated. So, long conversations ensued, including Denise saying to Bobbie, "I would love for you to pray for my husband to come back." They were separated. And Bobbie said, "Oh, I have a much bigger prayer than that. My prayer for you, Denise, would be that you become the woman God created you to be." I mean, that was it.
Well, to fast forward, eventually, Alan and Denise decided to reconcile, and they asked me to actually do the service where they renewed their vows. Really incredible thing. And then because I'm an agent and I'm in the publishing business, Denise said, "I'd love to write a book to tell this story." [00:08:34] And so she wrote a book called It's All About Him, with a picture of Alan and Denise on the cover. The "Him" in All About Him was Jesus. But when you look at the book, you think, she's writing a book about her husband.
In a week, that book was number one New York Times bestseller. Which, if you know the industry, you know that that's it. That's winning the Super Bowl, right? So the book did incredibly well. We paired her with a wonderful writer, Alan Vaughan.
There are other stories. That's one of my happy stories, really happy stories, about the industry, about being involved in book publishing as an agent. And then I also had a publishing company with a guy named Michael Hyatt, who some of your listeners will know.
So there are lots of stories. We could spend a week just telling fun stories about God's kindness and how He's led my path, an unexpected path. I didn't have any idea what a literary agent did. [00:09:36] And now I've spent 20-some years doing that.
So it's been a joy. It's an opportunity to take the message of people who know the Lord, who have been gifted as teachers, writers, people who know the gospel, know the Bible, and take their word, take their message to a broader audience. That's been a joy to do. That's how I've spent my career.
Laura Dugger: Thank you for letting us in on that. That is really interesting to hear the whole story. Your life has taken quite a few unexpected turns. I'd love for you to elaborate on why this scripture is especially meaningful to you from John 12:24, that says, "...unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds."
Robert Wolgemuth: I love that text because... I've just written a book called Finish Line. [00:10:39] The subtitle is Dispelling Fear, Finding Peace, and Preparing for the End of Your Life. I tell the story in that book of the death of my late wife, Bobbie, in 2014.
And there are lots of twists and turns about the story that I tell in the book. Probably the most interesting one to your audience would be that Bobbie knew a lady named Nancy Lee DeMoss because I was Nancy's agent. I helped her with her publishing work. And Bobbie and Nancy became friends.
Nancy was single, 57 years old, never married. And before she died, Bobbie thought it would be cool if after she dies I would marry Nancy. So she told two friends that she hoped that Robert would marry Nancy Lee DeMoss. But she never told me that.
So several months after Bobbie was gone, I reached out to Nancy because I had been her agent. [00:11:42] And now I'm single, and she's always been single. And that turned into a romance, and we got married in the fall of 2015.
You tell people that story, and it's really a God story. How could you ever patch that together? How could you ever make that happen on your own? You couldn't. It's got to be the leading of the Lord.
Actually, we wrote a book, Nancy and I did several years ago, called You Can Trust God to Write Your Story. We include in that book our story of God's kindness in bringing us to each other. And there are other, like twists and turns.
So Bobbie died in October of 2014. And we showed a video at the end of her service. I actually shot the video from the balcony of my home. In fact, you can get it if you look at Bobbie Wolgemuth, Trust and Obey. It'll pop up on your computer. She's singing the old hymn When we walk with the Lord in the light of his word. [00:12:50]
And at the end of the video, this is at the end of her funeral, the screen went black, and the words appeared in white, that you just read from John 12:24. Which represented to the folks who were there, and the people who live-streamed this funeral, that Bobbie had died and it was a kernel of wheat that had fallen to the ground and the harvest... and I could tell stories after stories of God's kindness in turning that seed in the ground into a wonderful harvest. So that's our story.
I'm incredibly grateful that the Lord gave me almost 45 years, 44 and a half years with Bobbie. And then the Lord had in mind for me to marry another amazing lady. So the kernel of wheat... in fact it's interesting, Jesus said those words. And it was right before His own crucifixion and burial and resurrection. [00:14:00]
So He was referring to Himself. And just imagine the harvest we could talk about, the millions around the world, throughout history, who have been redeemed by the blood of this man. So His kernel of wheat fell into the ground and died and the harvest that it produced, we could talk about, again, for a long, long time — how faithful God has been in redeeming the story of His Son. And that can be our story when we die. Our kernel of wheat can produce many seeds, a great harvest.
Laura Dugger: And you do lay that out so beautifully in the book about Jesus, and the greater picture of what this points to. But I was so grateful also that you let us in on some really sacred moments and walked us through what that was like to lose Bobbie. And even in her final moments, just the incredible way God was near to you.
Robert Wolgemuth: Yeah, it is an amazing story. [00:15:02] Honestly, I feel like a spectator to my own story. I mean, it's amazing. The Lord gave me an opportunity to actually live all that I have been able to experience.
But Bobbie was diagnosed with stage four ovarian cancer on Valentine's Day of 2012. And she was a warrior. She never complained. When I tell people that, they say, "Come on." She didn't. And I was her primary caregiver for 30 months.
So on Monday, August 27th, 2014, my daughters... I have a daughter... Missy, who was born in 71. Julie was born in '74. And they came to my home in Orlando, our home in Orlando, because we knew that Bobbie didn't have much time. So they came on a Monday and we spent the day together. And then I asked permission to lie down for a while because I really hadn't slept for weeks. [00:16:05] And so that's what I did.
But I was down maybe for an hour and a half, and Missy came and woke me up, and she said, "Mother's calling for you." So during that time, that hour and a half, Bobbie was telling the girls, her daughters, what she was seeing. Twinkly lights, children singing. Again, you hear about this, but this really happened to us, to our family.
So anyway, Missy came and woke me up. So we spent the rest of the night just awake, sitting in the living room. Bobbie had a hospital bed there. So the morning, when the sun came up, it was about 8:30 that morning, and we read our Bibles together. And I was holding the Bible that Bobbie had most recently used. She read coast to coast in the Bible, I think, 35 times. And this was one of those. It was a one-year Bible. [00:17:06]And she always underlined and made notes in the margins and so forth.
So we were reading a passage and Bobbie stopped me and she said, "I put a note in the margin there, didn't I?" I said, "Yes, you did." And I read her what that note said. So she was very much awake, alert, alive. At about 10.20, our hospice nurse came to the house. We had hospice twice a week for about 20 minutes. So I did most of the caregiving, which was my privilege.
So she came to the house about 10.20, and she walked into the living room. Bobbie was on the hospital bed in our living room. She greeted her. Her name was Enid, E-N-I-D. She was a lovely Hispanic lady. So Bobbie greeted her, and she greeted Bobbie, and Enid reached over and hugged Bobbie in the bed.
Enid went about her routine, and she took Bobbie's blood pressure. [00:18:07] And she reported what it was, and Bobbie said, "That's really low, isn't it, Enid?" And Enid said, "Yes, Miss Bobbie, that's very low." And so Enid took Bobbie's wrist to take her pulse, and she put her fingers on Bobbie's wrist and held it for a while and then moved her fingers and then tried her other arm. And Bobbie said, "You can't find a pulse, can you?" Enid said, "No, Miss Bobbie, I can't find a pulse." Which is amazing, isn't it? Because Bobbie was so alert. She was so alive.
So she asked me to lower the bed so she would be laying flat. She had been kind of sitting up. So I did that, and I'm sitting right next to her in a chair. And she reached over to me, and she took my shirt in her hands, and she pulled my face in right next to hers and she said, "I love you so much." And she died. So she was alert, I mean, to the very last moment. Isn't that amazing? [00:19:08]
Actually, Missy and Julie, my daughter, said, "Is she dying?" And Enid put her hand on Bobbie's chest, and she said, "She's not breathing. Yes, she's gone."
You know, I'm telling this story not because I read it somewhere. We experienced this. We lived this. And it was so much like Bobbie. I mean, she loved the Lord. She couldn't wait to go to heaven. In fact, the night before when I was resting, she said to the girls, "I'm going to be in heaven tomorrow." So she knew. That's our story. Safe to say that that's a memory that will never leave us. It's a happy memory.
You know, somebody said, we're not moving from the land of the living to the land of the dying. We're living in the land of the dying, and we're moving to the land of the living, which is the reverse of what we normally think about. So that's our story. [00:20:08] And I tell that story in detail in the book Finish Line, which I'm so thrilled to be able to tell.
Laura Dugger: Well, goodness, Robert, I was, I mean, crying instantly as I was reading your story through the book the first time and then hearing you explain it. It's so beautiful and precious. So thank you for letting us in on that.
My husband, Mark, and I recently lost one of our favorite friends, Heather. And anytime we lose someone dear, I think it reminds us how deeply we do long for heaven. So what have you learned about heaven through this loss of your late wife, Bobbie?
Robert Wolgemuth: Well, it's the land of the living. So those who know Christ are living with Jesus. They're more alive than they've ever been. D.L. Moody said, "When you read the story that D.L. Moody is dead, don't believe it for a second. [00:21:13] He's more alive than he's ever been."
So when you get that truth into your heart, it transforms the way you feel about death. In fact, I say in the book that watching Bobbie valiantly face her own death and not complain, eliminated... I know that sounds outrageous, but eliminated my own fear of death. I mean, if I could do that through this book, because, you know, when people are surveyed, what's your greatest fear, very quickly, people say death.
The other is public speaking. But, you know, people are afraid of dying. In fact, I think, if I can be so bold as to say, one of the ironies of the worldwide pandemic was the exposure of people's fear of their own death. I think that had a lot to do with all the hoops and hurdles that we were forced to jump through and jump over. [00:22:18] And I'm not saying that you should be careless. That's silly. Of course not. But if you're not afraid to die, that changes everything. That changes everything.
Now, how I die, I don't... I say in the book, women don't have this. But famous last words for men sometimes are, Hey, you guys, watch this. In fact, I talk about famous last words in the book. It's interesting, Laura, that 30% of us will die instantly. It's like when you go to sleep at night, you're awake, you're lying there, you close your eyes and you wake up the next morning. I mean, you were sleeping for eight hours. 30% of us will die like that.
Nancy's daddy was 53 years old and died on the tennis court. He was getting ready to serve the ball and the next thing he knew he was in heaven. 30%, approximately, of us will die suddenly like that. [00:23:21] That means 70% of us will have an exit ramp. It may be like Bobbie, 30 months. It may be a couple of weeks. It may be years. But it's an interesting thing. I need to be ready for the 30%.
You know, if you're part of the 70%, then you have a chance to get things squared away, your relationship with the Lord, your relationship with your family and so forth. That's the 70%. But if you're in the 30%, you're going to have to keep stuff buttoned up all the time because you never know.
Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
[00:24:01] <music>
Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank exists to provide industry-leading food relief to those in need while feeding them spiritually. They are a food charity with a desire to demonstrate God's love by providing help to those in need.
Unlike other parts of the world where there's not enough food, in America, the resources actually do exist. That's why food pantries and food banks like Midwest Food Bank are so important. The goods that they deliver to their agency partners help to supplement the food supply for families and individuals across our country, aiding those whose resources are beyond stretched.
Midwest Food Bank also supports people globally through their locations in Haiti and East Africa, which are some of the areas hardest hit by hunger arising from poverty. This ministry reaches millions of people every year, and thanks to the Lord's provision, 99% of every donation goes directly toward providing food to people in need. The remaining 1% of income is used for fundraising, cost of leadership, oversight and other administrative expenses.
Donations, volunteers and prayers are always appreciated for Midwest Food Bank. To learn more, visit MidwestFoodBank.org or listen to Episode 83 of The Savvy Sauce, where the founder, David Kieser, shares miracles of God that he's witnessed through this nonprofit organization. I hope you check them out today.
[00:25:30] <music>
Laura Dugger: Well, your book, Robert, Finish Line, reminds me also of this quote I just heard from C.S. Lewis, where he says, "Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither."
Robert Wolgemuth: Wow, that is so good, Laura. Yeah. Don't you love Lewis? Won't it be fun to have coffee with him?
Laura Dugger: Oh, is that the truth?
Robert Wolgemuth: Yeah. So I love that. And it's true. That changes the model. That changes the paradigm of what we're accustomed to when we think about our own death.
Laura Dugger: Well, and you let us in on a little bit of your love story with Nancy. But do you want to share anything more to catch us up with where you are in this phase of life?
Robert Wolgemuth: Sure. Sure. So, Bobbie's funeral was live streamed. I knew Nancy because I was her literary agent for a number of years. So we knew each other professionally. And she knew and loved Bobbie. Both of them used, for some of their internet stuff, the password HIMLADY, HIMLADY, because they both loved Him. [00:26:35]
So Nancy watched Bobbie's funeral in October of 2014, and she sent me an email and she said that she had watched it and it was amazing. And it was. And she said, "Would it be okay with you if I would share some of that audio on Revive Our Hearts? And I said, "Well, of course." And she said, "I especially would love to play the tribute that Missy and Julie," my daughters, "gave to their mom." And I said, "Yes, of course."
Actually, isn't the internet incredible? Because if you'd like to, you can Google "Bobbie Wolgamuth Daughters". Their 20 minute tribute to their mother will appear magically. So Nancy was taken by that. And it is amazing. I don't know I've ever seen a standing ovation at a funeral, but that's what they got. [00:27:35]
So I began to interact with Nancy regarding, isn't it ironic, my late wife's funeral service. So that would have been in December of '14. I have known Nancy's brother, Mark, for many years. So providentially, we were having lunch in December. So just a couple of months after the funeral and a couple of months after I had spoken with Nancy or communicated with Nancy. So I said to Mark... actually, I was nervous. I felt like a sophomore in high school. I was so nervous to ask the following question. I said, "Mark, tell me about Nancy." I'm a single man. She's a single woman. She's 57. I'm 67. That's a sweet story about that, too.
So he said, "Well, my wife, April, and I have talked about this for many years, and we're pretty sure that Nancy has been called to be a single woman in ministry." [00:28:39] But if you'd like me to tell her that you asked about her, I'd be happy to do that. So the next morning, Mark texted me and said, "April, I talked about this, and if you'd like to reach out to Nancy, we think that would be fine."
So a couple days later, I gathered the courage and I sent Nancy an email. Laura, she responded immediately. I thought, "This is very cool." Well, the email said, "Thank you so much for sending me this email. One of my assistants will be happy to respond to you." So it was an auto reply. Thanks a lot.
Well, that would have been in December. Maybe a week later, I did get a response. And she filled me in a little bit on her travel. She was in Arkansas visiting the state women's penitentiary there. Nancy's had an amazing ministry all these years. [00:29:40] That was in December 2014. And in November of 2015, she was my wife.
Now, you know, it's interesting because some people look at that and say, "That is really fast." I mean, "Isn't that kind of dishonoring of your late wife?" My response to that is, "No, I had 30 months of an exit ramp. This was not sudden." So Bobbie and I talked a lot about her death because we knew it was imminent, unless some miracle.
And my wanting to get married again, I think, is a tribute to my relationship, my marriage to Bobbie. I loved being married. Somebody has said, like, "Why?" I said, "I loved being married." They ask why. And my answer is, "I loved shepherding my wife." In fact, my first book after Nancy and I got married is a book called Like the Shepherd: Leading Your Marriage with Love and Grace. And I tell this story, of course. [00:30:42]
So Nancy and I were married in November of '15. Ever the capitalist, when Nancy found out that 60,000 people had live streamed our wedding, she said, "I can't believe we didn't do pay-per-view. We could have paid for that thing." I hope that doesn't sound like disrespect. So, yes, we were married and it was an amazing, an amazing celebration. It lasted three days, actually. It started on Friday night, ended on Sunday afternoon.
Now I've had a chance to be married to another amazing woman. And she's very different, very different than Bobbie. But she loves the Lord. She's an amazing Bible teacher. In fact, some of your listeners will know that there's only one woman in the world who is a Bible teacher on a daily broadcast. And that's Nancy.
Revive Our Hearts, Her Ministry has grown exponentially in the last 20-some years. [00:31:51] So I get to be a part of that. I mean, can you imagine? So I could tell you about conferences with tens of thousands of women around the world, really. And so the Lord gave me this incredible woman for 45 years almost and now Nancy, and we've been married since '15.
I had to move, listen to this, I had to move from Orlando, Florida to Southwest Michigan. And I moved in January. When I took my Florida driver's license into the DMV, the lady behind the counter looked at my Florida license and it was snowing outside, and she said, "Nobody does this. Why are you doing this in January?" I said, "Well, her name is Nancy and I'm happy to do this."
Anyway, this has been a privilege. I feel like a spectator looking on the field that's my life. And I'm overwhelmed by it so much of the time. [00:32:56] So it's God's goodness.
Nancy and I wrote a book called You Can Trust God to Write Your Story. And that was published several years ago. And it's true — you can trust God to write your story. So I'm very grateful.
Laura Dugger: You also alluded to one more sweet story. You said, with her being 57 and you were 67, was there more to that story?
Robert Wolgemuth: Yes. In fact, I dedicate the book Finish Line to Nancy because, you know, if you look at actuarial tables, I'm 10 years closer to my finish line than she is. So there's a certain element of sacrifice. First, that she had been a single person all those years. So I'm going to get to my finish line most likely before she does.
Nancy was born in 1958. I was born in 1948. Her mother was born in 1938. So I am 10 years older than Nancy. [00:33:59] And Nancy said to me one day, "Look," before we were married, "if this doesn't work out with us, my mother is still available." Actually, I'm closer in age to her mother by a couple months than I am to her. And we love Nancy's mother. Her daddy is in heaven, but we love her mother. We talk to her every Sunday afternoon. And it's pure joy. But I said, "No, I think I'll take you. I love your mother, but I'm going to take you." So that's been fun.
And we've met a lot of couples now. Some, including her mother and dad, who were 13 years apart. Her daddy was 13 years older. Anyway, I highly recommend being married to a woman like Nancy. She is amazing. I dedicate the book to her. It's the first time a book has ever been dedicated to her. And I say that in the dedication, that she married a man 10 years closer to his finish line than hers. [00:34:59] So it was a huge gift and continues to be a huge gift to me.
Laura Dugger: How did you find out about The Savvy Sauce? Did someone share this podcast with you? Hopefully you've been blessed through the content. And now we would love to invite each of you to share these episodes with friends and help us spread the word about The Savvy Sauce. You can share today's episode or go back and choose any one of your other previous favorites to share. Thanks for helping us out.
There's so many different parts that we could go into as well about the book but I just want to zero in on one part, because we've gone big picture but you get very practical in this chapter about no more secrets. So will you just share more of why you incorporated an urgent call to action in that chapter?
Robert Wolgemuth: Yes. That is a very important chapter. It's a sobering chapter, really. Because my business is representing writers, pastors, teachers, scholars, I've had the opportunity of knowing many down through the years, men and women. [00:36:10] And one of my clients, who is gone, died pretty quickly. Probably three months of his exit ramp.
He was worldwide known and respected. When he died, his people, including his family, were going through his things and discovered a life that nobody knew about. And it's honestly, Laura, one of the great tragedies of my... not just my career, but my life, was the story of this man.
In fact, when he was 17 years old, living on the other side of the earth, my daddy, Dr. Sam Wolgemuth, was preaching at a youth rally and offered an invitation for those who were there to come forward and receive Christ. And one young man came forward, and it was this man. [00:37:14]
We often kind of kidded about the fact that we shared the same dad. My dad in an earthly way for me, and my dad in a heavenly way in a spiritual way for him. So now he's gone, and people are going through his things and discovering really an unthinkable other life.
And so I challenge the people who are reading, and it's really both for men and women, to uncover that before you die. Because this was discovered after my friend died, and he couldn't explain anything. Or he couldn't confess anything, or he couldn't repent of anything. He couldn't fill in the blanks for people who could not figure out what had been going on. So my admonition to the readers is, no secrets. Don't wait until you can't answer questions, or explain things, or ask forgiveness for things. Do it now. [00:38:24]
I tell the story of hiring two young men to work for me in my agency. And they're standing in front of my desk, I'm sitting at my desk, I look to the left and to the right, the drawers in my desk, and then behind me the credenza that had drawers in it, and my computer. And I said, "There's nothing in any of this that you can't have access to." People would say, "Well, that's really bold and brave of you." Actually, no, I'm a coward because I don't want to have to explain stuff.
And I know of my own sinfulness, my own fallenness. And knowing that people have access to that keeps me on the straight and narrow. Because when you hide, you do things you shouldn't do. Sin lurks in the darkness, right?
So this man, whom I knew so well, but didn't know this about, and my admonition to the readers of this book is, don't have the same thing happen to you. [00:39:32] Now is the time for full disclosure, for full transparency, for full repentance and confession, for reconciliation. Because once you're gone, those opportunities are lost.
Laura Dugger: Well, I'm so grateful you wrote that chapter, and I'm very sorry about your friend. I can just imagine how confusing that is to process and reconcile who you knew him to be, and then to find out all of these devastating secrets.
Robert Wolgemuth: He was so good at it, Laura, that his family, his wife, had no idea. So what it really discloses is how good we can be at secrets. I mean, we are so skilled at hiding. I'm sure your listeners are going back to the Garden of Eden, right? And they sin, and they hear the sound of the footsteps of God Almighty, and He calls out and says, "Where are you?" [00:40:37]
That's the message of the gospel. It's God going first, sending a Savior, looking at us and saying, "Where are you? I'm here. I'm here. I'm here for you." There are so many wonderful things about the gospel. One of my favorite truths is that God goes first, and calls us out, and loves us, and invites us to repent, and welcomes us as His sons and daughters.
Yeah, no secrets. It's for your good to know that people are going to go through your stuff. So, far better for them to have you alive when they do, than after you're gone, when you can't, as I said, explain, repent, confess. So, no more secrets. That's that chapter.
Laura Dugger: Thank you. As we all age, what are some of the important missions that you want to make sure we do not lose sight of? [00:41:38]
Robert Wolgemuth: We're surrounded by lost people. As I mentioned, Bobbie was an amazing lady. She loved God's Word. She spent early mornings, every morning, early, I mean like in the darkness. Dark O-30, we used to call it. But something that has been sort of new to me, like I'm going to say in the last seven or eight years, is courage to share my love for Christ with others. It's interesting, isn't it?
The Apostle Paul, of all people, Romans chapter 1, said, I'm not ashamed of the gospel. So, for him to say, "I'm not ashamed" means that he knew what that felt like to be ashamed. That was a familiar sensation. So, when I'm anxious, nervous about witnessing to the Uber driver, the Apostle Paul is my friend. So, he understands that little anxiety we feel. [00:42:36]
But the world is filled with lost people who are desperately looking for a Savior, even if they don't know it. So, if it's the Uber driver or the clerk at Lowe's or Home Depot, those people need to hear the gospel. And you're the person who's been sent, gloriously sent, to tell them about Jesus.
I guess my admonition to your listeners, to all of us, is don't miss opportunities to tell people about your love for Christ and to pray with them. I'll bet, since I married Nancy, I bet we've said, I'm going to pick a number, 200 times, to people unknown to us, but known to Christ, how can we pray for you? Nobody has ever said, "Well, you can't. There's nothing that you can pray for." Everyone, every single one, has said, "Well, let me tell you about my wayward son. Let me tell you about the anxiety that I feel. I need peace." [00:43:48]
And so we have the joy. Whether it's the guy fixing the sprinkler system or, as I said, an Uber driver, people love the kind words of somebody who's inviting the Father into the presence of this conversation. And honestly, the more you do that, the easier it gets.
And it's important to know, this isn't about collecting scalps or checking a box. This is about loving people who are lost and wanting them to know Jesus. And it changes the whole paradigm. It changes the whole experience. So, there are a lot of things, but I'd put that at the top of the list.
Laura Dugger: Well, and Robert, when we turn the final page of your book, what is the takeaway that you want to ensure we don't forget?
Robert Wolgemuth: Well, I just talked about sharing your faith, we used to call that. Telling others about your love for Christ. [00:44:48] But I would start with, be sure that you're going first. That you're preaching the gospel to yourself. And that you know God's word, that you love His word.
You know, I'm talking to some people right now who are night people and some people who are morning people. The world is divided into morning people and night people, right? But I would say to you that unless you're spending your own time in the word on your knees, you won't have anything to share with people who are lost. So, start there. And I'm so grateful. Nancy's memories of her dad are exactly the same memories of my dad. In fact, they did know each other. But it was spending the first hour or so of your day in the word and on your knees. Once that begins to be part of your DNA, the fabric of your life, then everything changes. [00:45:50]
The gospel is about the relationship that we have, by God's grace, with the Savior. And when that's settled, when that's strong and vibrant, then everything else falls into place. Now, that doesn't mean that things are all rosy. I lost my wife to death, to cancer. But what it does, it gives you perspective. It's the kernel of wheat that falls into the ground and dies. If it doesn't die, it remains a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.
So, that's my story. I want the memory of my life to be exactly that. That the harvest of my life will be people who I was able to love into the kingdom, people that I was able to encourage, to serve. That's what really matters. So, that's my story.
Laura Dugger: Well, one of my favorite parts of your book, I'll just quote you from page 197, where you write, "My deepest hope is that you and I will be ready." [00:46:54] That's my prayer for our family and friends and people we've not even met yet and truly, just everyone listening to this podcast today. Robert, your book gives us a sobering perspective of how close the end may be. Will you share where we can go to learn more from you after today's conversation?
Robert Wolgemuth: Well, yes. Let me just go back to the word "ready". I own golf clubs, but I'm not really a golfer. I play occasionally. But there's an expression in golf called ready golf. So typically, and this is a gentleman's game, a gentle lady's game, right, you don't hit the ball until you get to your ball. And it's the furthest from the pin. So, if you're playing with a foursome, you always wait for them to play. Unless the golf course is crowded and then you play ready golf. Which means you don't wait for the other guys in your foursome to hit their ball. You hit yours. If you get to your ball and they haven't hit theirs, you go ahead and play. And that's called ready golf. [00:48:10]
And I talk about the importance of being ready. You know, there's so much anxiety that we experience when we're not ready. Okay, so let me take you back to college or graduate school. You're walking into a classroom. You're going to be tested and you're not prepared. How do you feel about that experience? I mean, your heart is pounding in your temples. You can hardly see straight because you're not ready.
And the joy of knowing Christ and of serving Him, of humbly repenting of your sin, is to be ready to not have to live with that anxiety. And so I talk about being ready. In fact, years ago, Dr. Tim LaHaye said something I've never forgotten. And I've repeated this hundreds of times. That a book is a long letter to one person. [00:49:11]
And so each time that I've written a book, I write it to one person. That sounds crazy, doesn't it? But I have, in the past, put a yellow post-it note on the corner of my screen and I've written a whole book to one person. So when I refer to the reader, I refer to the reader as you. And you and me. I'm picturing us with a cup of coffee between us. And it's a conversation. There's no microphone. There's no platform. It's just you and me.
So I've actually written this book to a particular man. Ashley and his wife. And if those people come to faith in Christ, I love them. They're dear friends, but they're lost. That would be worth, I don't know, pick a number, 350 or 500 hours of writing this thing. [00:50:12]
Because that's forever. Knowing these people would know Christ and spend eternity in heaven would be worth the time it took to write this book. So I don't know if that's helpful, but that's surely my heart.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Yes, Lord, let it be so. That is our prayer that they and many others would come to know and experience and enjoy you now and forevermore. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.
Robert Wolgemuth: Thank you.
Laura Dugger: Well, Robert, I do want to encourage everyone to pick up a copy of this book at Amazon, or they can also go to Revive Our Hearts. We'll put links to all of that in the show notes for today's episode. But you may be familiar we are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Robert Wolgemuth: Years ago, Zig Ziglar, who... first I listened to all of his tapes. Remember tapes? [00:51:19]
Laura Dugger: Yes.
Robert Wolgemuth: And then by God's grace, had a chance to meet him and publish him. So we became friends. You know, he's got this fabulous twang, southern drawl, and incredibly lovable and loved Christ. But he had this thing that he had little plastic poker chips printed with these two words, round, R-O-U-N-D, Tuit, T-U-I-T. And so he passed them out to his audience, sometimes thousands of people. And he would say, you know, a lot of people know what they ought to do and just haven't gotten around to getting it done. So he said, you know, people say, "I'll do that when I... you know, I'll get a Round Tuit." And he laughs and he says, "Now look at your chip. It says "Round Tuit" on it. And so now you have no excuse to not get around tuit." [00:52:25]
So I talk about a lot of practical things in the book, like planning your funeral, about making sure that your will is in good shape. 60% of us don't have a will. That means the state decides what charity your money goes to when you die rather than you deciding on where that goes or your kids or grandkids, where your funds, your wealth goes to. So there's a lot of stuff like that. We're all procrastinators. We say, Yeah, that's a good idea. Maybe someday I'll get around tuit."
So the savvy sauce is don't wait. In fact, years ago, I heard actually a layman giving his testimony and he talked about the woman who poured expensive ointment on Jesus' feet. And he said... I'll never forget this. He said, "There's no way that she thought about this in great detail." Because if she had thought about it, she never would have done it. [00:53:26]
And how often do we like writing a thank you note to a friend or picking up the phone and calling a friend, an old friend, whatever. You say, well, someday I'll get around tuit. No, my challenge, I think the secret sauce, the savvy sauce, is don't wait. If you feel prompting to reconcile with a friend or having the hard conversation with your mate, don't wait. Get to it. And of course, in the book, we talk about planning your funeral and buying your burial plot. Not for you, but for the people who survive you.
But my encouragement is to not wait, to get on the things that need to be done, especially your own relationship with Christ. But do it. Get it done. My favorite advertising slogan is Nike's. Just do it. Don't wait. There's no time limit. Like right now. So that would be my encouragement. Maybe that's my savvy sauce.
Laura Dugger: I love it. [00:54:25] That is wonderfully convicting in a good way. And something came to mind for me, and I hope it does for everyone listening.
Robert Wolgemuth: Great. That's wonderful.
Laura Dugger: But Robert, I so appreciate you sharing your gifts with us and documenting all of this timeless truth in yet another one of your books. So thank you for this labor of love. And thank you for being my guest today.
Robert Wolgemuth: What a pleasure. Thank you, Laura. Blessings to you and blessing to the people who are listening to this. I'm so grateful.
Laura Dugger: Amen.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. [00:55:27] So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? [00:56:25] Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. [00:57:30] I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Apr 03, 2023
Monday Apr 03, 2023
202. Simple Ways to Connect with Our Kids And Enjoy Breaks with Beth Rosenbleeth (Days with Grey)
"I perceived that there is nothing better for them than to be joyful and to do good as long as they live;" Ecclesiastes 3:12 (ESV)
**Transcription Below**
Questions We Discuss:
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What are your thoughts on independent play for children?
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How do children benefit from process art?
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What is your recommended breakfast invitation for us to try this week?
Other Resources Mentioned:
Parenting for the Relationship with Sandra Stanley
Favorite Easter Activity with Kids
My Favorite Gift Ideas for Kids 0-8
Gifts for Children’s Easter Baskets
Beth Rosenbleeth is a mom of three energetic boys, and I am a 13-year veteran teacher with a Masters degree in teaching reading.
Early in her parenting journey, she became frustrated with how her days felt despite her education and background.
She started Days with Grey to help introduce more play into her days.
Since then, Days with Grey has helped hundreds of thousands of parents better connect with their children through play-based learning (all while getting more breaks!).
She knows that the journey of parenting is not easy. You feel like you need an extra hand along the way, and she wants to be that helping hand for you.
Days with Grey offers play-based learning resources, including a course, guides, and activity ideas (that tell you what to do and what to say!) so you can drink your coffee HOT(!) while your kids play independently nearby.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Sam Leman Eureka
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message.
Hey friends, I wanted to share some exciting news with you. Savvy Sauce Charities has officially received our confirmation from the IRS that all donations are tax-deductible. I know that we have super generous listeners, so we wanted to let you know you can now mail your check to Savvy Sauce Charities and you can mail that to P.O. Box 101 Roanoke, Illinois, 61561. Thanks in advance for supporting Savvy Sauce Charities.
And now I'm pleased to gift you this bonus episode because Dr. Kris Christiansen's first episode became one of our top 10 most downloaded from 2023. [00:01:21] But just as an extra episode this week, we're going to re-release part two with Dr. Christiansen.
Here's our chat.
Welcome back to the Savvy Sauce, Dr. Christiansen.
Dr. Kris Christiansen: Well, thank you, Laura. It's great to be back. We had so much fun last week and looking forward to our conversation this week.
Laura Dugger: We really did have a great time. I hope anyone listening today makes sure that they go back and listen to last week's episode first, because you laid so much groundwork and we covered a lot of topics. But let's just continue the conversation today.
You've worked with men who have low testosterone and women who have low sexual desire. So what have you learned about these specific topics over the years? Well, as we mentioned last week, men with low testosterone often have several symptoms like fatigue, low sex drive, trouble with erections and orgasm, irritability, and depressed mood. [00:02:28] Can affect cognition too, so sometimes they're just not thinking quite as clearly.
They may even have hot flashes, night sweats, and sleep problems, just like women in menopause. You may have heard the term andropause, pausing with those androgens, and it's very similar to what women experience.
Along with feeling crummy, many studies indicate that men with low testosterone have an increased risk of heart disease, strokes, diabetes, and osteoporosis. Treating men who have low testosterone often makes them feel better, but it doesn't work for everyone. So it's not the fountain of youth like people hope for, and it's definitely not without risks.
There are side effects such as oily skin, acne, hair loss on the top of their head, which they don't like, and hair gain elsewhere. It can also cause increased breast size or man boobs because indirectly it increases their estrogen levels. [00:03:34]
Testosterone treatment can decrease testicle size, decrease sperm count, and increases the risk of infertility. So young men who want to have children should not use testosterone. There are other treatments, just not testosterone itself because of the risk of infertility.
There's also a risk of potentially blood clots and cardiovascular events in older men. Testosterone doesn't cause prostate cancer, just like estrogen doesn't cause breast cancer, but it often increases the PSA, that's the prostate cancer blood screening test.
Unfortunately, prostate cancer is relatively common, like 1 in 8 men, so we have to monitor men more closely for prostate cancer when they take it. Not because the testosterone causes it, but you just need to watch it because potentially the cancer could grow faster if it's there and if they're using testosterone. [00:04:34]
Besides, feeling crabby and fatigued and having sexual problems may not be due to low testosterone. These are fairly common issues and they can certainly be attributed to other problems like pressures of work, work stress, pressures of life, and relationship issues. So just because they may be having some of these general symptoms doesn't automatically mean that they're a candidate for testosterone treatment.
As for women, I see women all the time in my clinic who come in with low desire and I kind of have to play detective to see what could be the underlying problem to their low libido. We talk about a biopsychosocial model when it comes to sexual function and dysfunction. So we have to ask about all these different aspects of the biopsychosocial model.
For example, the bio aspect refers to the biological and physical components like hormones, pain, medications, side effects, and chronic medical problems. [00:05:37]
Pain is often a common factor in low desire. And it's not uncommon for my patients to have always had pain with sexual activity, intercourse, or penetration. So she thinks this is normal for her. But pain is not normal. It's never normal. And who would want to have sex if it hurts? So we have to figure out what's causing the pain and fix that before we can help the libido. And sometimes that's all we have to do.
Fatigue is also a very common factor. So if you're working and you're working 40 hours a week, you come home, you have to make dinner, you clean up and put the kids to bed, and you just don't have any energy left over for sex.
And for stay-at-home moms who have the most important job in the world, they don't get lunch breaks, days off, or break from the daily routine. So it's ongoing. And sometimes, you know, they just need a little help or a little break and reserve a little time and energy for sex because it's often not there. [00:06:41]
Women usually don't have sex at the forefront of their brains, our brains. Our brains are not bathed in testosterone like men's are. So we're not thinking about sex all the time like guys often are, not always, because sometimes women have higher libido than their husbands.
But we divide desire into two different kinds. There's spontaneous desire and responsive desire. Spontaneous desires, when we're thinking about sex, want to engage in intimate time with our partner and initiate the encounter.
However, more often, women are not the initiators and a common scenario is for desire to happen after sexual intimacy has begun. And we refer to this as responsive desire. So once you're engaged in that intimate time and you can relax and it feels good and say, Oh, I wish we would do this more often. [00:07:40] But then that more often doesn't happen.
So when we're young and the relationship is new and exciting and sex is exciting, we look forward to it and we initiate it. As the relationship matures, sex is still a wonderful way to connect with our spouse, but we're not thinking about it all the time like we did when things were new and fresh.
So as that relationship matures and as we mature, that's when responsive desire comes into play. And it is a completely normal response. So, for example, when dinner's done, dishes are put away, kids are in bed, and your husband starts to rub your back, and then you think, Okay, this is nice, and the back rub turns to more intimate activity, and that's when your desire kicks in. And that is a totally normal response. So even if you don't have desire at the get-go, if it comes along, then it's okay.
So it's also important to know that all back rubs don't have to lead to sex. [00:08:42] Some women, they're afraid to hug or they're afraid to be touched because they think that touch is going to lead to sex. So we need to know that non-sexual touch is very nice and it's okay to stop there. Just because you get a background doesn't mean that it has to proceed to that next step. You can just enjoy that touch for what it is.
Laura Dugger: That's really helpful because if you say that many women do experience low sexual desire, you're not saying that if you don't have spontaneous desire, that would be low sexual desire. That would more so be diagnosed if you are even into the act of sexual intimacy and into those arousing touches, but you're still not experiencing desire. Is that right?
Dr. Kris Christiansen: That's right. There's a diagnosis called hypoactive sexual desire disorder. It's common in women for sure, and it also happens in men too. [00:09:45] But hypoactive sexual desire is low desire that causes personal distress. And that distress can be exhibited as frustration, grief, loss, sadness, sorrow, and has a negative impact on the relationship.
So if we have low desire, but it's not causing any problems, it's not an issue. Not everything has to be treated. It's when the low desire is actually causing problems within that person, that the personal distress or within the relationship, that's something that we need to address.
So if we don't have the spontaneous desire where it's at the forefront of our brain, yet the responsive desire is happening and both parties know that and it's okay, it's not an issue. But if it's causing an issue, then we can look into it, see what's contributing to it, and try to help. [00:10:47]
Laura Dugger: Okay. And if this is the most common sexual dysfunction in women, then how can women identify if they are experiencing this?
Dr. Kris Christiansen: Well, you may have hypoactive sexual desire disorder if you just don't think about sex, don't desire it, and don't enjoy it once engaged in sexual activity. There was a big study published years ago, 2009. They looked at 31,000 women. So big study.
They found that 44% of women have some sort of sexual problem in their lives. 44%. It's almost half of us. But we only call it a disorder or a problem if it causes distress. So if we take distress into account, then the prevalence is more like 12%.
When it comes to low desire, depending on the study that you read, anywhere from 30% to 50% of women will experience low desire at some point in their life. [00:11:52] But it's only an issue if it's causing distress, and that happens in about 10%.
Sexual desire decreases as we get older. Not for everybody. Like I said, I've got women in their 80s coming in, and we know that sexual problems are most common in the middle years, like 45 to 64. So if you have low desire, it's causing problems, and you want help, know that there is help out there for you.
There are subtypes of HSDD. We talk about situational versus generalized. With situational HSDD, this implies that certain factors are affecting the low libido, such as relationship issues, stress or fatigue, medications, pregnancy, recent childbirth, menopausal symptoms, or other sexual issues like pain, decreased arousal or orgasm problems. [00:12:55] Sometimes it's a matter of our partner's sexual problems, which then spill over and affect us. So if we can improve these contributing factors, then libido often improves.
Sexual pain, decreased lubrication, and arousal problems often go along with the low libido. So if a woman simply just does not experience pleasure with sexual intimacy, meaning she's not experiencing arousal or those pleasurable feelings, she's probably not going to participate in sexual intimacy in the future.
And we know that many women engage in sexual activity just to feel close to their husband. But if she's not getting any pleasure from it, why does she want to do it? We also know that foreplay is an absolute must. It takes time to warm up, time to get aroused, and it takes longer as we get older.
I heard of one podcaster referred to sex without pleasure like mushy steamed broccoli. [00:14:01] So if sex is like mushy steamed broccoli and you really don't like mushy steamed broccoli, then you're probably going to avoid it. So we've got to fix the mushy steamed broccoli.
Other things that can affect libido: chronic medical conditions such as diabetes, metabolic syndrome, thyroid problems, urinary incontinence, it's huge, MS, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, and cancer, especially breast cancer and other gynecologic cancers.
So treating those underlying medical conditions can be helpful. And the better that we can manage them, like with our blood pressure and cholesterol and diabetes, the better our bodies work, both men and women.
Medications can affect sexual function like blood pressure meds. We talked about hormonal contraceptives last week. Spironolactone. Spironolactone is a water pill, but sometimes women take it to treat acne or to treat facial hair, especially in women who have PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome. [00:15:10]
The reason spironolactone works for those issues is because it's an antiandrogen. Androgens have to do with testosterone. So if this spironolactone is treating our acne and treating the facial hair, which is great, but it's antiandrogenic, meaning decreasing our testosterone levels, it's going to affect sexual function.
Other medications: antidepressants, other mental health medications, and most definitely breast cancer treatments.
Other factors: depression and anxiety, have a huge impact on sexual function and libido. We know that the medications that we take to treat the depression and anxiety they cause sexual side effects.
However, the anxiety and depression often have bigger effects than the medications themselves. We also know that having depression increases the risk of sexual dysfunction by 50% to 70%. [00:16:10] So if you have depression, you have a 50% to 70% increased risk of sexual problems.
The reverse is true. Having sexual dysfunction, whether that be low libido, orgasm issues, or guys with erectile problems, having sexual dysfunction increases the risk of depression by 130% to 210%. And stress and fatigue are really common problems.
So if you go on vacation, you get adequate rest, and you escape the stressors of life, and you find that your libido is much improved, well, then I guess you need a permanent vacation. So send me an email, I'll give you a doctor's note, and let's make sex better.
Okay, so that's situational HSDD, low libido that's due to specific situations.
There's also generalized HSDD. This is where there are no other contributing factors like pain or medications or whatever, but libido is still low. [00:17:14] This means it also occurs in all settings, so whether you're home or whether you're on vacation, and with all partners, but hopefully you just have the one-lifetime partner.
HSDD, that is not caused by contributing factors, is thought to be attributed to an imbalance of brain chemicals, like depression. Sexual desire is regulated by key regions in the brain through the action of various neurotransmitters. So there's a balance of excitation and inhibition, and the balance of the excitatory and inhibitory neurotransmitters impacts sexual function.
Sexual excitation is mediated by the chemicals dopamine, melanocortin, oxytocin, vasopressin, norepinephrine. So these are all good positive sex steroids or sex hormones that help with sexual function. The inhibitory ones are opioids, so pain meds, so people who are on chronic pain meds has a negative impact. [00:18:17]
Serotonin, which comes in many antidepressants. Serotonin can have a negative impact. Endocannabinoids, so cannabinoids, meaning THC, negative impact. And prolactin. These are all associated with sexual inhibition.
So prolactin is a big factor in breastfeeding women because when you're breastfeeding, that prolactin level increases because it causes milk letdown. But prolactin decreases dopamine and libido.
Again, it's a natural function. I think it's God's way of making sure that women don't get pregnant right away. You know, we don't understand all the biological causes of HSDD. But we think that the generalized acquired HSDD involves either this predisposition towards inhibitory processes, which shuts everything down and results in decreased excitation. [00:19:16] Or there are some women with increased inhibition where those other neurochemicals have too much of an inhibitory effect. Or it could be a mixture of both.
The other breakdown of the HSDD is acquired versus lifelong. So acquired means previously libido was normal, it was good, it was not a problem, and then something changed.
Lifelong HSDD is when libido has always been low. It's never been high. There can be many different factors contributing to this.
We do have several treatments available. The treatment really depends on what type of HSDD the patient has. So if it's situational HSDD, meaning attributed to a specific underlying factor or factors, then we've got to try to fix those, whether it's addressing relationship issues, trust, pain, medications, or other sexual problems. Sex therapy is very helpful regardless of the type of HSDD. [00:20:23]
Sex therapy is talk therapy, trying to peel back the layers of the onion and figuring out what's contributing to it, and dealing with some of these problems. When it comes to generalized acquired HSDD, we have a number of ways that we can treat it. That's really good news.
Part of it is just education, talking about normal sexual functioning, and understanding the difference between spontaneous and responsive desire. So if you don't have spontaneous, it doesn't mean that you're broken or something's not working. As long as that responsive desire happens, that's totally normal.
The role of motivation in sexual desire, making sure that he or she is well-rested and the experience is good and pleasurable, and other things that contribute to the positive aspect.
We have to talk about the importance of adequate stimulation. This is where foreplay is really important. [00:21:26] Stimulating the clitoris, starting with non-sexual touch or whatever is important and arousing for the person. And it's different for everybody. What's arousing one day may not be arousing the next. So it's really important to keep those lines of communication open.
We also need to address any modifiable factors such as the depression or anxiety or self-esteem or body image problems. So if a woman feels really self-conscious and just can't be comfortable, is uncomfortable being without clothes in front of her partner, that can be a big impact.
Addressing stress or distractions. You want to make sure that you have that privacy and can be comfortable in this situation. A history of abuse can have a lifelong impact. Substance abuse, self-imposed pressure for sex, so if we're imposing this pressure that we have to have sex or if our partner is imposing that pressure on us, that's not going to lead to a very positive experience. [00:22:33]
Lifestyle factors, relationship factors, and even beliefs about sexuality. God talks about sex and intimacy throughout the Bible. It's a gift that He created for us, and He wants us to be able to enjoy that with our spouse. And that's the way it's meant to be.
But if we kind of forget that factor and still think of it as being dirty or off-limits and, you know, you shouldn't engage in that, you shouldn't enjoy it, that's going to have a definite impact on sexual function.
Other factors: making sure we've got adequate lubrication and addressing arousal problems if they happen. Sex therapy, like I mentioned above, is really effective. Sounds weird, people are reluctant, but talking through these issues with a trained therapist is really helpful.
The other good news is that we have two medications approved by the FDA for the treatment of HSDD in premenopausal women. [00:23:37] So these have been approved just in the last few years. They work on the brain chemistry. We talked about the excitatory versus the inhibitory aspects of these neurotransmitters, and that's exactly what these medications are addressing.
They're approved for use in premenopausal women, but they've also been studied in postmenopausal women, and they are safe and effective. It's just that they don't carry the indication because it would take another billion dollars for all those studies to get them approved by the FDA for postmenopausal women.
I still use them off-label in my postmenopausal women. I probably use them more often in my older patients than my younger ones because they work. They work by either activating those stimulatory pathways or reducing the inhibitory pathways that regulate desire. And when they're effective, which, honestly, they work in about 45% of women, not 100%. [00:24:35]
Women say that the medication gives them that want-to-want back, and that's what so many of them are missing. It's like somebody turned off a switch in their brain, and as much as they want to, and they really want to be close to their husband, they just can't bring themselves to do it, and this is when the medication can be helpful.
Medication doesn't help relationship problems. It doesn't help other medication side effects and such, but it just restores the brain chemistry.
One of the medications, the first one approved, is a pill. It's called Addyi, A-D-D-Y-I. Flibanserin is the generic name. It's a pill that has to be taken every day, taken at night, and it takes about six to eight weeks before we see the full effect. Kind of like an antidepressant. It takes time to restore the brain chemistry.
The other medication is called Vyleesi, with a V as in victory. The generic name is bremelanotide. [00:25:37] This is an injection. It comes in a pen, a single-use pen, much like an insulin pen, so you never see the needle, and the needle's teeny tiny, and it really doesn't hurt. So you give yourself this injection in your abdomen about 45 minutes prior to sexual activity, and it's going to be effective for 10 to 12 hours, so it's not like you have 45 minutes. Clock is ticking. It does give you some time.
For our late perimenopausal, postmenopausal patients, testosterone can be helpful. So actually giving women testosterone. It is off-label. Unfortunately, we don't have an FDA-approved treatment for testosterone in women, but again, we use it quite often, and it can be an effective treatment.
There's no approved product, testosterone product, for women, so we have to use male products in female doses. Again, we have about 10% of the amount of testosterone that men do, so we use 10% of the amount of the testosterone gel or whatever. [00:26:38] These improvements are gradual, and sometimes it takes a few months before they take full effect.
So please know that HSDD is treatable. There are treatments, there are options, and bottom line, there is hope.
Laura Dugger: And now a brief message from our sponsor.
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Laura Dugger: Well, I love learning more about the intricate and brilliant way God designed our physical bodies. So with that in mind, what are a few benefits of orgasm?
Dr. Kris Christiansen: There actually are several benefits to orgasm. One of them is that it can boost mood. So with orgasms, we get the release of neurochemicals or hormones that make us feel better.
Those hormones can be oxytocin, dopamine, and endorphins. [00:29:39] So oxytocin is also known as the love hormone and the bonding hormone. It's released 500 times the normal amount with orgasm and plays a role in sexual arousal and ejaculation for men. It also increases when you're hugging someone or breastfeeding your baby.
It has other non-sexual roles. It causes uterine contractions in labor and childbirth. And like I said, it's involved with breastfeeding and allows the milk to be released.
It also impacts human behaviors and social interactions like recognition and trust and that romantic attachment. So that's why that snuggle time as part of sexual intimacy is just so valuable. It connects us.
Dopamine is our feel-good hormone. It allows you to feel pleasure and satisfaction and motivation. [00:30:41]And it plays a role as the reward center. So when you do something pleasurable, your brain releases a large amount of dopamine. So you feel good and seek more of that feeling, whether it's sex or junk food. Dopamine is also that hormone that gets released as part of that runner's high that just makes you feel good and makes the pain go away.
Other benefits. Orgasm can strengthen relationships, improve sleep, increase body confidence. And it helps to reduce stress by releasing that dopamine and strengthening our pelvic muscles. It helps relieve pain with those endorphins.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that is incredible to kind of hear it summarized in all of the science behind it. But then it also makes me consider people who have never experienced this. So what is the treatment plan for your clients who have never experienced an orgasm? [00:31:42]
Dr. Kris Christiansen: The first intervention is usually education because orgasm often comes from the clitoris. There are a lot of women who just really don't know what it is and where it is. But God gave us a clitoris, and it only has one function, which is sexual pleasure.
So we think of it as being just that little pea-shaped structure that you can see and touch. But it's actually much larger and much more involved than just the little pea-sized glands clitoris that we think of.
It's a deep structure. It's made up of mostly erectile tissues and nerves, just like the penis. And it reaches deeper into the pelvis. It encircles the vagina, and it goes all the way around. It has kind of like legs that extend on either side.
Boys and girls start with the same genital structure as the developing embryo, and then we differentiate into the different male and female genitalia. [00:32:49] So our clitoris really started looking like a penis, or vice versa. And it's a glans clitoris, or what we think of as the whole clitoris, but it's just that small glans, which is the same structure as the glans penis, the head of the penis. So our clitoris is really like the head of a penis.
The female equivalent of the penile shaft is the cruse, or the legs, and the vestibular glands that extend down and around the vagina, just inside the labia majora. So it's much larger than what we anticipate. And stimulating just the labia majora can be quite pleasurable, because it's part of the clitoris.
There was an article published in the New York Times just last October, and it was entitled, Half the World Has a Clitoris. Why Don't Doctors Study It? We really don't know that much about the clitoris, because nobody's really looked into it. [00:33:50] So this article talks about how little we know about it.
Shortly after that article came out, there was a study published in one of the medical journals that noted that the clitoris actually has more than 10,000 nerve fibers. Actually, 10,281 to be exact.
Previously, they were basing the knowledge, we thought it was only 8,000, based on a study that looked at bovine or cow clitorises. Anyway, most women, up to 70% or 75%, are not able to reach orgasm with just vaginal penetration.
Most women need direct stimulation to the clitoris in order to be able to experience orgasm. And a lot of women don't know that. A lot of men don't know that. So we think that just penile-vaginal intercourse should lead to orgasm, and it doesn't.
It also doesn't happen spontaneously. [00:34:54] That only happens in the movies. Unfortunately, movies and media just do us all a big disservice. So there's a reason that God tells us to guard our hearts and our eyes. But intimacy is all about intimate connection with giving and receiving pleasure.
So if we keep that in mind, that it's giving and receiving pleasure and connection, and not about the goal of reaching orgasm. Because if that's the reason you engage in sexual intimacy is just to reach orgasm, it's not going to happen. Your brain's not going to let you go there. You have to be able to relax and let go, feel vulnerable, and be in the moment.
There are a lot of issues that can contribute to difficulty with orgasm. One of the biggest ones is anxiety. So if we're anxious about not being able to reach orgasm or if we're placing pressure on ourselves, that's one of the biggest deterrents. [00:35:54]
Other factors are medications. Antidepressants, especially those SSRIs, like Prozac and Zoloft, and Paxil, can cause sexual problems, especially orgasm issues. In men, if they have premature ejaculation, we often prescribe those medications for that reason because that helps delay ejaculation at least a few minutes.
Other meds which we may not know about is the birth control pills. I think we talked about that previously and the negative impact that birth control pills can have in some women.
Other issues: hormonal issues, especially when our testosterone levels decrease, that can be an issue.
Medical problems and physical trauma like injury or surgery or radiation to the pelvic area. Emotional trauma and relationship issues. So, again, if we don't feel safe and can make ourselves feel vulnerable, orgasm probably is not going to happen. [00:37:02]
Hypertonic or really tight pelvic floor muscles also play a role.
Age is a factor. So there are normal age-related changes, and women often have decreased lubrication and need increased time for stimulation and lots and lots of foreplay.
Nerves just become less sensitive, and then when you also are dealing with medications and circulation issues and the decreasing hormone levels, unfortunately, that plays a role. However, it doesn't mean sex isn't pleasurable.
In men with orgasm, they experience, you may have heard, andropause, because their testosterone levels decrease with age too. And so just like women, men often need more time and directed stimulation in order to maintain the erection and be able to reach orgasm as they get older. So if things change, it doesn't mean that we have to give up on sex. It just may look a little differently as we age. [00:38:05]
It's also important to use a really good lubricant. Using a good lubricant can actually increase your ability to reach orgasm by 70% or 80%. As far as treatment options, besides education and learning about our bodies, sex therapy is really helpful.
It combines a cognitive behavioral therapy and often sensitive focus exercises. And sometimes it's just plain communication between spouses and expectations. Experimenting with non-coital, non-vaginal intercourse type of activities, such as massage or oil or manual stimulation, and using a vibrator.
So a vibrator provides additional stimulation and helps overcome the problem of decreased sensation because those nerves aren't as sensitive as we get older, especially with medications and problems like diabetes, which affects the nerves. [00:39:07] So using a vibrator with partnered play can be really fun.
Again, keeping in mind this is giving and receiving pleasure, and our spouse often gets a lot of pleasure about giving us pleasure. So changing things up, changing your routine, say the location or time of day, changing positions.
So if we usually wait until bedtime to engage in sexual intimacy, we're tired and our bodies don't work as well when we're tired. So trying to carve out some time earlier in the day or reserving some energy for that fun time can make a big difference.
There are no FDA-approved medications for orgasmic disorder, but we often use off-label treatments, which is a lot of what I do in my specialty, to help different things like with arousal and orgasm. [00:40:07] One of the things we may try is Viagra or Cialis in women. So yes, this is off-label, and insurance usually doesn't cover it for men, and it most definitely does not cover it for women, but there are ways to get it really, really cheaply.
Anyway, so Viagra and Cialis, they don't help with desire. For men, it doesn't really help with desire either, except that it gives them the confidence that they may get a better erection. So the way these medications work, they increase blood flow to the erectile tissues, which is our clitoris.
So by increasing blood flow, it may work a little bit better and help with arousal and orgasm. There actually have been a few small studies that show that it is helpful, especially in women with diabetes or taking antidepressants.
Other treatments may include an arousal cream, which is compounded. [00:41:08] It does require a prescription, and you have to get it from a special pharmacy. But this arousal cream often has something like Viagra and testosterone and a few other things in it to help increase blood flow.
There are over-the-counter options. One of them is called Zestra, Z-E-S-T-R-A. It's a mixture of some botanical or herbal supplements that are meant to increase blood flow. Another one is Arouse Serum by Rosebud Woman, which can be helpful.
Like I said, a vibrator or there's such a thing as a clitoral stimulator that acts directly on the clitoris that can be helpful. You know how men have a vacuum erection device to help with erections? Well, there's a similar device for women. It's called Eros, E-R-O-S. It acts like a little mini vacuum device that goes over the glans clitoris and it pulls blood into the clitoris to help with the arousal and orgasm. [00:42:12] It basically works like the erection device for a penis.
Sometimes orgasm just comes down to learning your own body and discovering what feels good. So like we mentioned, you've got to be completely relaxed, uninhibited, and be able to let yourself go.
The more you try to reach orgasm just for the sake of reaching orgasm, the less likely it's going to happen and your brain really just won't let you go there. So I want to try to not engage in goal-oriented sex. The goal is to reach orgasm and once you reach orgasm, you're done. You don't want to do that because we have to be able to relax and enjoy the journey. So remember sexual intimacy is about intimate connection and giving and receiving pleasure.
Laura Dugger: Thank you. That was a very holistic response, which I appreciate looking at various angles to help with this. [00:43:14] Even I think I've shared on the podcast before, one woman shared with me that when she and her husband are engaging in sexual intimacy, if she is having difficulty, like you said, just getting there, relaxing enough, spiritually, she will just pray silently and ask God to help her. She said the results... I can't remember the exact quote, but are miraculous or supernatural. So I love the holistic approach.
And then also it just made me think when you were talking about different physicalities that I would recommend if anyone's listening and they are struggling with this right now, there are so many reasons to seek out a professional like Dr. Christiansen, who we're talking to today. Because even things that we wouldn't think of like back injuries, where something has happened and... I don't know all the science behind it. You wouldn't know this better than me, but where the brain can't interpret what is going on in the genitals. And I'm not sure if it's spinal cord severing, but sometimes people with back injuries have said they have more difficulty experiencing orgasm. [00:44:26] So there's just so many things to unpack. And that's why you're such a brilliant resource.
Dr. Kris Christiansen: Well, and that's so true. And it really is the spinal cord because those same nerves that come from your clitoris track all the way up your spinal cord to your brain. Even just, you know, say a herniated disc or a small tear in the disc or some injuries can impact sexual function. And if you tell that to a neurosurgeon or an orthopedist, they're going to say, No, that doesn't impact it. But it really does.
Laura Dugger: Have you checked out our library of articles available at thesavvysauce.com? New posts are added multiple times a month related to parenting, intimacy in marriage, personal development, habits, and other topics connected to what we discuss here on The Savvy Sauce. If you sign up to join our email list, you're also going to enjoy little extras delivered straight to your inbox.
Our hope is to encourage you to have your own practical chats for intentional living. [00:45:27] So these freebies will include things like questions that you can ask on your next date night, safe resources to read to promote enjoyment in your intimacy and marriage, or questions to ask your kids to connect at a more relational level. We hope you check out all the available reads at thesavvysauce.com under the articles tab.
Well, kind of on a different topic, we have over 50 Savvy Sauce episodes that are related to sex, but we have not yet covered perimenopause and menopause in depth. So let's just begin with a definition. First, what is perimenopause?
Dr. Kris Christiansen: Perimenopause is the transition phase from our reproductive life where we're experiencing regular periods to the point where those periods stop. [00:46:26] And it may begin 8 to 10 years prior to menopause. In some women, it can last up to 14 years.
So it often starts in the early to mid-40s. Menstrual cycles become irregular and unpredictable. The only predictable part is to expect it to be unpredictable.
Our periods can become heavier, lighter, closer together, or farther apart. You know, so we just really don't know what to expect. They can be heavy and frequent and lead to excessive blood loss, and sometimes women become anemic. So if that's the case, if, you know, heavy frequent periods, please see your provider because there are lots of things we can do for this.
Other symptoms can also include the psychological and other physical symptoms. Psychological symptoms may include anger, irritability, mood swings, depression, anxiety, difficulty concentrating, brain fog, mild memory problems, and some trouble with word finding. [00:47:35]
So, you know, we may think we're going crazy or whatever, but it's just really... It's perimenopause and our fluctuating estrogen levels that just don't let our brain work as well as it used to.
Other physical symptoms may include hot flashes, night sweats, decreased libido, weight gain, urinary problems such as urgency, frequency, and incontinence, and vaginal dryness and painful intercourse can often happen. We often think of this as menopause, but these symptoms may start happening as early as our early to mid-40s.
The reason behind all of this, it's due to fluctuating and decreasing levels of estrogen. So some days our ovaries may be working great, giving us plenty of estrogen, we feel pretty good. The next day they're taking a break and we're not feeling like ourselves.
So even in perimenopause, estrogen, systemic estrogen can be helpful. [00:48:38] So as long as we don't have any contraindications like breast cancer or history of blood clots, a little bit of estrogen can make us feel normal again.
Laura Dugger: Wow. Is that something you would recommend? Do you begin going to your OBGYN if you're experiencing difficulty sleeping and brain fog and these different things that you've talked about to check if you are anemic or if you're in perimenopause or need some estrogen? What would be the next step?
Dr. Kris Christiansen: Yes, absolutely. Starting either with your primary doctor or your OBGYN, if you're still seeing one, that would be your next step. But I would recommend going on the menopause.org website. That's a national organization for menopause.
There's a list of providers on there who have a special interest or even certified in menopause treatments. So menopause.org, click on Find a Provider, and you put in your location to find someone in your area who would be a little probably more well-versed in menopause and perimenopause treatments. [00:49:51]
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. Now, what all can you teach us about menopause?
Dr. Kris Christiansen: Menopause is defined as 12 months after the last period. So it's just like 12 months one day... it's a mark in time. It's a normal, natural event in a woman's life, and it can occur naturally or due to surgery, like removal of the ovaries.
Sometimes we just don't know when menopause occurs because a woman may not be getting her period in her 40s because of birth control pills and IUD or a gynecologic procedure such as an endometrial ablation or hysterectomy. So if she's not getting her period in her 40s and 50s, we don't know exactly when it happens. We do know the average age is 51, and it usually occurs somewhere between the ages of 45 and 55. And it's all due to the reduced functioning of ovaries and decreased levels of estrogen and progesterone. So it marks the permanent end of fertility. [00:51:03]
Like with perimenopause, a lot of women experience symptoms and physical changes, and they may include hot flashes, night sweats, sleep problems, mood changes, weight gain, slowed metabolism, hair becomes thinner, skin may become a little drier, and loss of skin elasticity where wrinkles are a little more prevalent, loss of breastfulness, and even some mild memory problems.
Not to mention, though, hot flashes and night sweats can be really disruptive, especially if the night sweats don't allow us to get a good night's sleep. They tend to be worse in perimenopause and early menopause. They affect like 50 to 80 percent of women and more common in Black and Latino women.
Cigarette smoking increases frequency and severity. So one more reason to stop smoking. Hot flashes resolve in 85% of women within about five years. [00:52:04] But 10% to 15% of women may have persistent flashes throughout their lifetime. They usually last about seven years, and up to 30% of women can have them for 10 or more years. So they can last a while, but in most people, they do get better and go away.
A very common problem is also what we call the genitourinary syndrome of menopause. We call it GSM. It's very common. It affects up to 85% of women in menopause. And unfortunately, that issue gets worse with time.
So GSM is a collection of symptoms caused by the lack of estrogen and affects the vulva, the vagina, and the urinary system. We used to call it vaginal atrophy, but because we know it also affects the urinary system, they broadened the term.
So the vulvovaginal symptoms may include vaginal dryness, loss of elasticity, painful intercourse, vaginal atrophy, tight nips, shortening of the vagina, vaginal itching, and thinning of the vaginal tissues, which can make it prone to tearing. [00:53:18]
It affects sexual function with decreased arousal, decreased sensation, trouble with orgasms, and tearing of the tissues, which causes pain and bleeding. So those urinary symptoms may be urinary urgency, frequency, painful urination, urinary incontinence or leaking, and even UTIs.
Laura, I can't tell you the number of women I see with these problems. And most of them say, no one ever told me this was going to happen to me. And these problems, they get worse with time, unfortunately. Like those hot flashes, they get better and go away. But our GSM symptoms, they don't get better, they get worse. The good news, though, is that we have great treatment options for GSM, so it doesn't have to happen.
Vaginal estrogen is highly effective and it's extremely safe. [00:54:17] The vaginal estrogen acts locally just on the vulva and the vagina and the bladder, so it doesn't get absorbed and affect the whole body. More importantly, we have studies to show that it does not cause breast cancer, heart attacks, strokes, or blood clots.
If you get a prescription and you read the package insert, unfortunately it does say it has these risks, but the drug companies have taken these risks associated with systemic estrogen, like pills and patches that increase our blood levels, and they apply that same risk to the vaginal treatments as a class effect, but this is totally not the case. Unfortunately, it scares women away from a very safe, very effective treatment. And you can use it until you die. There's no reason that you have to stop it at any point.
And it's not necessarily just about sex. It's about vaginal health because urinary urgency and frequency incontinence is really bothersome. There are several over-the-counter vaginal moisturizers that can be effective, especially if you start using it when your symptoms are mild. [00:55:27]
You've got to use these vaginal moisturizers regularly and consistently, like every few days in order for them to work, and it may take a month or two before you see the full effect. So they don't work if you're just using them right before intercourse. Vaginal estrogen doesn't work that way either. Both of these, they have to be used regularly and consistently if you want to see the benefits.
With the over-the-counter moisturizers, though, you have to be careful. There's a common one called Replens that you can buy in just about any grocery store or drugstore. But that Replens has propylene glycol in it, which can actually be irritating. So you don't want to use anything that's going to make the problem worse.
Three ingredients that I recommend avoiding in lubricants and moisturizers are glycerin, parabens, and propylene glycol because they can cause irritation. [00:56:26]
Back to menopause, I think it's important that we look at this time and embrace it and enjoy it because it's a change in life. It's a new chapter. Some women may feel a sense of loss or grief as we no longer have our menstrual cycle or reproductive ability, and our experience changes with aging, of course.
Society, as we know, places a lot of pressure on women to stay youthful and vivacious, and using our youth makes us feel less desirable or less valuable. Obviously, this is a harmful and false narrative, so we must look at aging as a gift and embrace it as a gift from God.
A lot of women feel a renewed zest and look at this season as an opportunity to try something new, new hobbies, interests, ministries, or goals that had previously been elusive because we were too busy. It's a great time to seek the Lord and learn what He has in store for us. [00:57:29]
Laura Dugger: I love that positive perspective. It's always helpful to hear the good news. One of the most common questions that couples ask related to their sex lives, and I would say especially Christian couples, will ask, is this okay? I realize this is a sensitive and controversial topic, but from your vantage point, Dr. Kris, as a Christian and as a clinician, what is your opinion on sex toys?
Dr. Kris Christiansen: That's a great question. I get that also: Is it okay? You know, it really is, I think, a condition of the heart. If we're looking at sex toys as a way to just experience great orgasms or to pleasure ourselves and not using them in the context of the sexual intimacy that God has intended for us, that's probably not the most ideal setting. [00:58:38]
But if we look at sex toys as a tool to help us enjoy our sexual intimacy with our spouse, I look at it as a tool and as an aid, because as we get older, our sexual function changes, our bodies change, and using, especially like a vibrator, increases that sensation, it increases the arousal, and it allows us to be able to continue to connect in various ways. So as long as we're not looking at it as a way to replace our partner and it's a way to enhance our intimate time together, I think it's okay. But again, it's a condition of the heart.
Like Paul says in 1 Corinthians, I have the right to do anything you say, but not everything is beneficial. I have the right to do anything, but I will not be mastered by anything. You say, food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both. [00:59:48] The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord and the Lord for the body.
I think as long as we're using them in the context of our loving, intimate relationship with our spouse and they're there to help enrich the experience, I think it's okay. But again, it comes down to the condition of the heart.
Laura Dugger: Thank you for sharing your perspective on that. I know there have been previous episodes with authors who have even given questions as filters and kind of used this same scripture. Is this beneficial to your marriage? Is this something that in your heart you feel is God-honoring? So I love that recommendation that everybody takes it to the Lord themselves and see where He convicts them. If it is something He says, yes, enjoy freely, or provides a word of caution, and maybe it's different for different couples. [01:00:51]
Well, Dr. Kris, where can we go after this chat to learn more from you?
Dr. Kris Christiansen: I have a business that I started. It's called Intimate Focus. The website is www.intimate-focus.com. I started this company because I wanted to provide a place where women and couples can learn more about sexual health, sexual wellness, and purchase quality products to enhance their sex lives.
In my medical practice, I often recommend getting a good lubricant or a vibrator which can help with stimulation, but obviously many women are reluctant to go to an adult store or order something like this from Amazon if other people are looking at their purchase history. Like with lubricants and moisturizers, you can buy them at Target or the grocery store, but they often contain ingredients that can be irritating and contribute to pain, so you have to be really careful. [01:01:58]
So I wanted to provide a safe, comfortable space where people can get good information about sexual health and wellness and be able to purchase quality products. From that website, products will arrive in an unmarked box from IGH Focus, not even Intimate Focus, so nobody will suspect anything crazy.
But God planted the idea of this business in my heart, and I consider my business and my medical specialty as my ministry, because God designed sexual intimacy, and we need to be able to provide a platform where it's safe, it's not shameful, and it's okay to talk about.
So I want to help educate and empower women to take away the shame associated with sexual intimacy and pleasure. I believe that sexual health and function and pleasure are God-given gifts, and we should be able to enjoy sexual intimacy throughout our lives. [01:02:57]
However, as we've discussed, there are a lot of factors that can negatively impact sexual function, and people need to know that there is help available. So if you go to the website, intimate-focus.com, and you click on Contact, right now it's just me, so that email would come directly to me, and that's a way to reach out.
On sexual health concerns in general, especially if you need a sexual medicine provider, please go to the ISSWSH website, stands for the International Society for the Study of Women's Sexual Health, isswsh.org. And on that website there is a "Find a provider", so you can type in your location and see if there is a provider near you.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will provide all of these links in the show notes for today's episode. [01:03:58] Dr. Christiansen, I have one final question for you. We are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge, and so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Dr. Kris Christiansen: One verse that comes to mind is James 1:19 and 20. "My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this. Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry, because human anger does not produce a righteousness that God desires."
So, if we could all take James' advice, be quick to listen, slow to speak, and definitely slow to become angry, we would do a better job of understanding others, have empathy, love, and compassion. I try to do that. Can't say I'm always really good at it. That's one of my savvy sauces. [01:05:01]
Laura Dugger: Oh, I love that. Dr. Christiansen, I just want to again say thank you for educating us on these sensitive subjects and doing so with kindness and gentleness. I am so grateful for you and I just want to, again, say thank you for being my returning guest.
Dr. Kris Christiansen: Well, thank you, Laura. I have enjoyed this and I really, really appreciate the opportunity because God created sexual intimacy, He wants us to enjoy it. Sometimes it doesn't always work as planned, so we have to provide a place where people can go for help.
Laura Dugger: Well said.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. [01:06:01]
This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.
But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.
Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [01:07:05]
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John. [01:08:02]
Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Mar 20, 2023
Monday Mar 20, 2023
Special Patreon Re-Release: Making Your Home a Place of Love and Peace with Devi Titus
**Transcription Below**
“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.” -Titus 2:3-5 (NIV)
Devi Titus, wife of Larry Titus, is an international Christian conference speaker and author. She is an award winning communicator with the Washington Press Women’s Association and speaks to multiple thousands annually, both nationally and globally. She first came to the attention of women nationwide in 1978 when she founded and edited VIRTUE magazine, a successful Christian alternative to secular women’s magazines. VIRTUE magazine raised a standard of excellence for women’s lives for 22 years. She is an author and founder of The Mentoring Mansion (now called the TITUS HOME). Married for over 55 years, Larry and Devi have two children, six grandchildren, and eleven great grandchildren. She and her husband reside in the Dallas/Ft Worth, TX area and travel extensively worldwide.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Home Experience by Devi Titus and Trina Loranzo
The Table Experience by Devi Titus
When Leaders Live Together by Devi Titus
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: Today's message is brought to you by Chick-fil-A East Peoria. Stay tuned for insider tips we're going to share during the episode.
I'm excited to welcome back Devi Titus. She's an internationally known author and speaker, and today she's going to teach us about biblical priority management, how to keep our list of priorities in order every day. I hope you enjoy our chat.
Welcome back, Devi.
Devi Titus: Oh, it's so awesome to be here again, Laura.
Laura Dugger: Well, we're always glad that you join us. And in case our friends listening missed our last conversation together, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and lay the foundation for your most recent book?
Devi Titus: Oh, sure. Thank you. Well, I'm married for 54 years to an amazing man who was called into ministry before we were married. We married at age 17 and 21. [00:01:19] He was called as a young man. So I thought I knew what I was getting into, but I had some surprises.
We have two children. Those two children have given us six grandchildren, and three of the six have given us 10 great-grandchildren, and we have an 11th one on the way.
In the year 2001, we left leading a local church. We had pastored four different congregations in 37 years, and we have a missions organization, and we work with men and women and pastoral leadership in 24 nations. So we have a very fruitful life in ministry.
My passion is to restore the dignity and the sanctity of the home. I am at the season in life, and I have the wonderful experience of going into many nations, being an invited guest in large conferences in many nations. And I see the condition of our current culture from many, many different perspectives. [00:02:23] The common thing in every nation is that the dignity and the sanctity of the home have been undermined.
A great, great historian of all times, Edward Gibbon, cited five basic reasons why great civilizations wither and die, and we see that happening in our world today, is the undermining of the dignity and sanctity of the home, which is the basis of human society. That's the number one of those five reasons.
So I really thought, okay, if the undermining of the value of the home and the wholeness of the home destroys a nation, then can't we build a nation by restoring the value and the wholeness of the home, which is what dignity and sanctity means.
In the year 2001, I focused, completely focused my life to do this. And I did it by writing resources. I speak to conferences, but I also bring eight women at a time once a month into my personal home, and I call it the Titus Home Mentoring Experience. [00:03:32]
So they live with me for four days. I'm the mom teaching them essential principles, vital relationship skills. We send them back into their environments and hopefully they then will pass those principles to their spheres of influence. And we literally have hundreds of thousands and now with the internet, millions who are really embracing these principles. We are seeing a huge transformation in some nations, but more importantly, in individual homes within those nations that is affecting a national outlook.
So that's a little bit about me. I'm very passionate about what I do. And as long as the Lord gives me health and strength, I'll never retire.
Laura Dugger: I'm so thankful for that, because you clearly have this incredible gift for just inspiring and training women so that they can also create a peaceful home that has eternal value.
Devi Titus: Thank you.
Laura Dugger: Yes, I mean that. [00:04:32] So let's cover a few of those values from your book and just learn how each of us can practically apply these values into our own homes. We can start with priority management. You teach that that is a value of order. Can you tell us more about that?
Devi Titus: Well, yes. We are referring to the book, The Home Experience: How to Make Your Home a Place of Love and Peace. This home experience book is over 300 pages. It's a full-color book, pictorial. It is a coffee table size, nine by 12. And you leave it out on your table to remind you every day how important your home is to the human hearts who live there.
Every human heart must have love and they must have peace. And we cannot have peace without order. So that's why priority management brings order. And you know what a day is like when you didn't prioritize and you can't find your car keys and you don't know where the kids' baseball mitt is and they have their little team meeting and you have to be on time or he'll get kicked off the team and you can't find the shoes when it's time to get ready for school. [00:05:47] So when there is disorder... God is not a God of disorder. He's a God of peace.
Priority management is different than time management. We all have 24 hours in a day. But within those 24 hours, we must structure our priorities.
So the list of priorities that I created will help give you a guideline not to neglect the most important for a lesser important thing. I will say that all priorities that I have listed are all important to be mindful of every single day.
Laura Dugger: Can you just give us what a biblical list of priorities would look like in order?
Devi Titus: Yes, I am really happy to do that. Number one is the fear of the Lord. Many people say, Put God first. Well, what does that mean? Does that mean I have to read my Bible every day, and if I don't, I'm not putting God first? [00:06:46] Do I need to spend X amount of time in prayer? And how much? A little bit? A lot?
You know, what does it mean to put God first? You know what? That is so individual. But I'm going to tell you what it means. It means to have a fear of the Lord. You may not read your Bible today, but a fear of the Lord doesn't go away. There is an awe about God that you reverence. And basically, the fear of the Lord means you believe God will do what He says he will do.
So He says He will give you a promise for a certain kind of behavior and He says he will give you a consequence for a certain kind of behavior. The fear of the Lord believes it and adapts and adjusts your decision based on that premise.
The word says in Psalm 111:10, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And I don't know about you, but I've got to have wisdom every single day. I'm constantly making decisions about things that I don't know. [00:07:49] And I just say, God, give me wisdom how to make this decision.
The fear of the Lord, Proverbs 1:7, is the beginning of knowledge. When I have the fear of the Lord, God will let me know something that I don't know. He'll just speak it to me. The fear of the Lord adds length to life. The fear of the Lord gives you health. Medical science has proven that anxiety will break down your health when you don't have peace. So the fear of the Lord gives you peace and it'll keep you from getting diseased.
The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him. So He's protection. He who fears the Lord has a secure fortress or home for His children. It will be a refuge. So the fear of the Lord makes your children feel safe in your home when you are a person who fears the Lord.
And just one more. And there are many, but these are just a few. Proverbs 14:27 says, "The fear of the Lord is the fountain of life." So that's the first priority. [00:08:49]
The second, then, if you are married, is your husband, and notice your children do not come before your husband. Be sure that you have a marriage-centered family if you're married, not a child-centered family. I would say the majority of families become child-centered. The children are between the husband and wife, which creates a distance between the husband and wife.
Actually, that creates insecure children, not secure children. So your marriage is a covenant until death do you a part. Your responsibility for your children is until they are grown adults. So that's a very short season in the life of your marriage.
If you're not married, then your priority number two, if you're not married, is that this is a season in your life to not just have a fear of the Lord, but to be totally devoted to doing service for the Lord. An unmarried woman is concerned about the Lord's affairs. [00:09:50] Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. That's 1 Corinthians 7:34.
So it's a real privilege to have an adult season and not be married. Don't waste it on yourself, waste it on socializing, waste it on partying, wasting on hanging out at bars or hanging out in social places. But use your time productively for the service and the affairs of the Lord. Volunteer. Serve someone that you wouldn't have time to do when you take on the responsibility of a family.
Number three then is your home. Now notice we have fear of the Lord, we have husband and then we have home. Not children. And the reason home comes next, this is all based out of Proverbs 31.
On this show, I can't give you all the references, but just trust me, the home is the institution that God created for the human heart to be formed. You may never have children, but you will have a home. And that home is important. [00:10:50] First, for your personal life to flourish, and second, for those who live there. So you prepare the home to be functioning in love and peace before you bring children into it. That's why it's a priority.
Then your children. So you care for your children before you care for yourself. Your children would come next. What are their needs, their emotional needs, their secure needs. Your career is not priority over your children being properly cared for.
Next, priority five is your private life. If you are not personally healthy, your public life will not be healthy. If you are not personally healthy, what you do at work or what you do in ministry or whatever your public life represents, by healthy, it can be many different things, but particularly I want to just speak to your attitude. [00:11:49] So your personal life or your private life is really controlling your attitude.
I love this saying, it's not original to me, but you really are who you are in the dark. In other words, whatever you do, when nobody looks at you or sees you is the true you. That needs then to be able to be reflected in the light. So essentially your private life will look different than my private life, but it's important for you to be aware every single day to keep healthy in your mindset, in your attitudes, and in your habits. So your lifestyle.
And then number six is our public life. And how many times are many of us driven that our public life actually is first. I have to go to work. That's your public life. I'm in ministry. That's your public life. And it comes first. And even your grooming, which is your private life, isn't considered.
The hair gets slicked back, you know, into a ponytail. [00:12:50] You leave the house without makeup. You might be driving to work and putting it on while you're driving. You haven't just taken time to be peaceful. Your public life will flourish when these priorities are in order. So that's the list. And then I can kind of tell you how that practically works.
Laura Dugger: We have quite a few listeners that are both stay-at-home moms and working moms. So could you speak to both groups of women who still have children in the home? What does it actually look like on a typical day to live out these priorities in order?
Devi Titus: I had a lady write to me and she said, "Dear Devi, after reading about priority management, I couldn't figure out where I was going wrong. I would get to my office and not know what to do first. Then I would take an honest assessment the way I spend my time, and I realized my priorities were out of order. Now I have a sticky note on my desk at all times. Every day, I literally check off these things in my head. Did I spend time with God? [00:13:51] Have I honored and cared for my husband's needs today? Is my home in order? Have I addressed my children's needs and made sure and taken care of them? Have I exercised or cared for myself today? Check, check, check. And then I turn my attention to my public life, my work."
I love that because when you have this mindset, keep in mind, this is not a list for the week. This is every day. And it could be something as simple as when I get up in the morning, a habit that I have created, but it actually came from my father. He woke me up. His greeting was, "Hi, Devi, this is the day the Lord has made. We will rejoice," meaning no matter what happens, you're going to rejoice. "We will rejoice in it and be glad."
And so I get up in the morning and I say, "Good morning, Lord. This is the day that you have made." I do that while I walk to the bathroom. It's the first thing I have to do when I get up. "Lord, this is the day you have made. Whatever comes my way, I will rejoice and I will be glad." [00:14:53]
So in that moment, that might be all the conversation I have with Him for the next hour, but I had it. And He was focused in my mind. And then, of course, I make every day specials for my husband. So if he wakes up later or if he was up early, there was a greeting, a conversation, a kind voice, a kiss, a hug, a touch as I walk by. And that's affirming him.
Then when I go into the kitchen, I gather the things up. I keep it in order. If I need to leave for work, I have prepared the night before. So I have the children's breakfast ready. Their lunch is packed. So their system that's putting my children in the right place. They didn't come first that morning. I left without makeup. If I'm a stay-at-home mom, I get up and I prepare myself for the day. Your children deserve a mother who is put together. Don't stay in your pajamas half a day in sweats, they never see your hair combed or never see you prepared. [00:15:57] And you want to train them to prepare themselves, too.
It's a balanced flow. Some things get more time than others. Remember, priority is different than time management. So the fact that my husband is after the Lord doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to spend the most time in that day with him. So don't get confused with time.
It's just that I am aware immediately that this is a marriage-centered family. And the more healthy my marriage is, the more healthy my children will be. So I'm going to invest in him this morning. If it takes preparing the night before.
Then, of course, your children. What are their needs? You want to look at them physically and emotionally and spiritually. The emotional side or the developing of their soul, their character, starts early. Their physical need and their soul is developed from infancy. [00:16:57]
By the time they get to be three, four, five, now you can introduce maybe a scripture memorization. You've already introduced prayer because you prayed with them as a habit from the day you brought them home or birthed them in your own home. So you start these habits. That's a habit of putting God first in their life. Those habits will then continue in their life.
Your personal life is cared for in many ways. My personal life is cared for because I have those other priorities in line. Then when you leave for work, you're leaving for work, focused on your work, giving your boss the best that you have. That's what you're getting paid for. And that's good stewardship. But you're not doing it in guilt. Get up an extra 30 minutes so you can make your bed and clear the dishes, even if they're stacked in the sink. Don't leave them scattered all over in cereal boxes on the counter.
An extra 30 minutes can make a huge difference in you leaving for work in peace. [00:17:58] And don't put a legalistic spiritual routine on yourself. That is very bad. I don't believe in that at all.
Laura Dugger: This may be brand new information, too, especially the part where you say from Proverbs 31, prioritizing the home before the children. Could you give us a practical example of what that might look like?
Devi Titus: So your children need a comfortable bed, right? If they're the age to be in a bed, they need a mattress that isn't broken down or a comfortable place to sleep. If you're listening and you're in another country, a comfortable place to sleep might be a cushion that you created with blankets on the floor, but you still created it. You still created a place. That was your home before the child laid down on it.
So the atmosphere and the furnishings in your home is what creates structure for your children to grow, to be nurtured, to develop a chair to sit in at a table. That chair can be broken down, but it wouldn't service very well that child. [00:19:00] It needs to be size appropriate and it needs to be sturdy so they won't fall out of it or off of it. So it's so practical.
I had one gal come to me and say, "Devi, I never ever thought of this. Our sofa is so torn up because I've allowed my child to tear it up." I thought, "Oh, this is childish behavior." "If she sees a little string, she starts pulling at it. It creates a hole. She sticks her finger in the hole and she'll put pressure on that hole until it rips and tear. She's literally torn our sofa up until there's holes and I have it covered, not just with a blanket. I now have bed pillows on the cushions with a blanket."
And I said, "Why did you not replace the sofa?" And she just looked at me like, "I don't know. Maybe I thought I couldn't afford one." And I said, "Well, have you bought any clothes?" "Yes." "How many clothes do you have in your closet? How many dresses?" "Oh, probably 10." "How many blouses?" "Probably 20." And I said, "Stop buying clothes and buy a sofa." [00:20:04] The sofa gives comfort to the family.
Now, don't you ever let your child physically destroy property because that is a destructive behavior. They'll destroy people. They'll destroy property. If you let that habit start, it will continue to bigger things. Why do we have graffiti? Because those kids never learn to respect property within their home.
Your furnishings, they don't have to be expensive, but you need to walk through your house and furnish your house appropriate for the season you're in. And it needs to be comfortable where your family wants to be there.
Why did Barnes & Noble become such a huge company in the time and season that feminism told us home wasn't important? Because they created a home atmosphere in a bookstore. People found peace there. They went there.
And you know what? You will never feel loved in a home if there's not peace. [00:21:04] See, love has to be believed. The home, the atmosphere of that home doesn't need to be fancy, doesn't need to be expensive. But I'll tell you what, the human eye does respond to color. So it's important to have color, to have things coordinated because it stimulates our soul. The health of our soul becomes soil for the health of our spirit.
Laura Dugger: Using it as a means to a greater end.
Devi Titus: Absolutely. It's strictly an environment.
Laura Dugger: Do you have any other final questions that you would recommend we ask ourselves as we all seek to align our priorities in an order that would be honoring to God?
Devi Titus: Oh, that's such a deep, good question. I'm not sure how much I have time, but I would love to elaborate just a moment on a statement that I just made regarding love and peace. Because every human soul must have love and peace. And if the home is where the heart is formed, then you want to ask yourself, what are the two things that the human heart must have? [00:22:07] Must have love and peace. God is love. Jesus is the Prince of Peace.
Jesus is the only way to God. He says, "I am the way, the truth, the life. No man comes to the Father except by Me or through Me." So if Jesus is the Prince of Peace, the only way to God who is love is through Christ. Then the only way to love is through peace.
I want you to think about this. Love is only as influential or impacting as it is believed. Just remember God so loved you that he gave his only begotten son. That through Him, through Jesus, you would be me and the world would be saved.
So when God loved you, he's loved you from the beginning, but His love had no influence on your life until you believed it. Once you believed He loved you, everything changed in your life.
It's the same in our homes. [00:23:08] Your children, your husband have to believe you love them. And the way they believe it is through peace. So you could say I love you, but you can yell at them. You can scream at them. You can be angry. You can be undisciplined and self-controlled. Everything can be chaotic, out of order. That's all self-centeredness, frankly. That's putting you more important than everybody else in your family. And that's wrong. It's sin, actually.
So do an assessment in your home and say, is love being believed? If a person doesn't feel secure in love, let's take your children, you become vulnerable to aggression because they fear the pain that rejection brings. So if you scream or yell or you're out of control, your kids feel pain inside. They feel rejected. It hurts. So their aggression is to push you away or your husband, to push you away before you push him away because he feels rejected. He's not secure in your life. [00:24:13]
So ask yourself, what do I need to change in the atmosphere of my home to bring peace? Because I do love my family, I do love my husband. But now that I hear this, I'm not sure they believe it. What do I do that can make my love, my sincere love believed?
And the only way it's believed is for you to gain order, order within yourself. Remember, self-control is one of the signs that you are filled with the Holy Spirit of God. It is part of the fruit of the Spirit, just like kindness, meekness, gentleness, love, and self-control.
So start with self-control because that is something that is your responsibility. Self. Control yourself, bring peace, and then love will be believed.
In love and peace, everybody will flourish. They can't not. It's like planting a flower in good soil, and you continue to nurture and water that flower with food and care — you've already given it love and peace — and it will grow to maturity, it will blossom, it will bloom, and it will multiply. You won't have to worry about it. [00:25:28]
If your heart is hard, if it is hurting because you've been hurt and you've become vulnerable to aggression, let the Holy Spirit heal you from that. Lay aside your offenses, forgive those you need to forgive and come back to a tender, humble place in your heart.
If there's no peace, if you continue to allow your environment to be filled with chaos, it creates an environment where the people who live there become vulnerable to addictions. Addictions, it doesn't matter what kind it is, illegal or legal, addictions are really a temporary form of trying to gain peace. So your kids won't be vulnerable to drug addictions if they have a home filled with love and with order.
So take a personal assessment so you can realign your priorities and to be able to recapture the belief of love through peace. [00:26:29]
Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
[00:26:33] <music>
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[00:27:40] <music>
Laura Dugger: Let's move on to the topic of hospitality. You've taught that this models a value of serving. Do you have any favorite scripture that's related to hospitality?
Devi Titus: I do. Well, there are several. You know, when I was a little girl, we lived by a railroad track in the hobos. They rode the train and the train stopped right there at the train stop near our home. And those hobos would get off of the train and they would walk through our little town and they would ask for food. Our house was the first one they came to. It was the nearest.
My father really lived out — and my mother — Hebrews 13:2. "Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers. By doing so, you may entertain angels." And my dad set a picnic table outside the back door of our house, which was the common door that people came into. And he said, "Devi, if a stranger or one of the hobos from the train stop and ask for food, lock the door, make him a sandwich, take it out on a paper plate and sit him down to this table and feed him. If we're not home." [00:28:50]
If my mom and dad were home, they invited him in and they would always make him something to eat. And here's what my dad said: "He might be an angel." I mean, they really believe the scripture. He might be an angel. So that formed in me a conviction about hospitality.
And then I married Larry, who is a lover of people, and he has taken in strangers back from the hippie days of teenagers hitchhiking across the nation with, you know, bare feet. In the 60s and 70s, he picked up hitchhikers. He brought people from the street. He would bring drunks from the bars and he would bring them to our home.
So I realized as a young girl that 1 Timothy 3 overseers, these are spiritual leaders within the church. One of the qualifications is that we are given to hospitality. And so those are some of the ones that have really shaped my conviction about hospitality. [00:29:51]
Laura Dugger: Wow. That is incredible to hear even how your parents planted that seed in you. Do you hear any common excuses from people why they are reluctant to open their own homes?
Devi Titus: Oh, absolutely. Number one, most people's homes aren't in order. So they live a very different image of a public life than they live in their personal life.
Probably the second reason is we have really lost a sensitivity of connecting in relationships, even within the church. We are accustomed to meeting people in public places, but very few people want the vulnerability that it requires in order to bring people into their homes.
Laura Dugger: Do you have any recommendations or a remedy for overcoming these excuses?
Devi Titus: Oh, I would start with one person at a time. Just think your most simple meal, whether it's grilling hamburgers or cooking hot dogs. In fact, my daughter tells a wonderful story. After 35 years or so, they moved to Dallas area and she got married in Amarillo, Texas. We moved away. They moved to several different states. [00:30:59]
They returned to Dallas and reconnected with an old friend. The old friend said, "I remember coming to your house and it was the most special meal. Oh, it was awesome." Well, my daughter kind of left because she's really never been known. She had four children, but she's never known to be a cook. She was a meal preparer. They always had meals, but she doesn't like to cook. You know, if you don't like to cook, you're not a very good cook. But she thought it was crazy that this lady remembered this meal after all these years. And she goes, "Really? You're kidding me. What did I fix?" She said, "You fixed Coney Island's chili cheese dogs. And they were so delicious. But it wasn't just the chili cheese dogs. It was the way you set up the counter and the way you serve them." See, she was hospitable. It wasn't about the food.
And if we can get over that hurdle, it's really the connection. Make it cute. Start with one or two people that you're fairly comfortable with. [00:32:02] Or a stranger that you sit by at church. In fact, this week, Friday night, we are bringing a young couple to our house that I sat beside at church last Sunday.
Laura Dugger: Oh, I love that. You're living out your principles.
Devi Titus: Yes. They're in their 20s. They've been living here three years. They go to church every Sunday, but they haven't connected to couples their age. So we have invited two other couples their age. One of them leads a small group of couples their age. We've invited those three couples. Maybe we'll grill chicken outside. But it'll be simple. It'll be fun. They'll be comfortable. I won't set a formal table for this event to start them out. But I'll graduate them to that. That's the blessing.
So just start one at a time. The people that you greet and say hi, but you never tell their name. Why don't you ask them home for lunch? Whatever you're having, serve that to them, too. They will love it.
Laura Dugger: Yes, everyone loves to be invited. [00:33:00] I also appreciate your chapter on etiquette. And some people might think that that word can sound stuffy, but I love how you insightfully teach that it's actually a value of kindness. So will you start just by sharing some of the rules of kindness as they relate to etiquette?
Devi Titus: Well, sure. The reason that sort of rules of conduct or behavior began to be developed, oh, I think back in the 1600s or so. Of course, they've evolved. Culture changes then, etc. I'm just going to go to a point in time in history when trade had opened up between England and Asia. And their cultures were very different.
There were some codes of conduct that were developed to be able to host in England, the queen to host the heads of state of Asia. And so they sent them in advance, which was an act of kindness and consideration so they could be comfortable in their culture. So that began. [00:34:01]
And if you look at the heart of every sort of rule of etiquette, if you know to do this, it will save your guests from being embarrassed. That's the whole purpose of etiquette. And it makes things more comfortable and easy.
Another reason to know etiquette, which are rules of kindness and consideration, is so when you are in social settings, you're not self-centered. Colossian says to conduct yourself in a manner worthy of honor. If you know how to act, you can forget about yourself. If you don't know, you're uncomfortable and you're thinking about yourself. What do I say? What port do I use? Where do I sit? Do I sit now or do I wait? It's all about me.
If you know it and you're comfortable enough that if kindness means I need to break this rule so you don't become embarrassed, I have the confidence to do it. [00:35:00]
Laura Dugger: Now, with this knowledge of etiquette and kindness, do you have any practical ways that we can prepare to lavishly love others?
Devi Titus: Oh, wow. Forget about yourself. Number one. To lavishly love someone else is to put yourself in their shoes and then to make the most of that opportunity. The scripture says, Let your conversation toward outsiders be filled with grace. Grace means favor undeserved. So no matter how somebody else is behaving, let your conversation compliment them. Give them an encouraging word. That's thinking beyond yourself how their rudeness might be affecting you. Give them grace.
And it says seasoned as if it were salt. You know, salt always brings the best. It enhances the flavor. It doesn't diminish the flavor. [00:36:00] So kindness and consideration for others. When I'm in the checkout line at Target and there's a big basket in front of me with kids misbehaving and a new person at the customer service or at the checkout who isn't doing a very efficient job and I'm in a hurry, I just have to think, Okay, how can I season this situation with salt? That's what the scripture tells me to do.
So it's not about me right now. I can't change this situation. So let me try to make it better. You know, so I just put all the sweetness I can in my voice. I think of something positive that I could say to encourage this young mom with out-of-control children, to encourage the lady at the checkout who's struggling, learning a new job and make it better for her. So that's the way we do it. We have opportunities really anytime we go out into public to be able to do that.
Laura Dugger: Yes, endless opportunities. [00:37:01] Changing gears a little bit here. You also have a background in interior design. Is that right?
Devi Titus: I do. Not a formal one, but a self-taught one, and attended a number of small seminars, institutes, but I owned a business for 10 years.
Laura Dugger: That explains a lot of the beauty that you incorporate into all of your resources. But I appreciate your section on home decor and you describe that as a value of beauty. Why do you believe that design and creativity are important to incorporate into our own homes?
Devi Titus: Because our God is the creator and we have His nature in us. Everybody is creative to a point. So you might be more creative intellectually and I might be creative more artistically but we have God's nature in us. And He has designed and created beauty. [00:38:01]
As we're talking, I'm looking out the window and I'm looking at the color coordination of various, various shades of green from dark to light and the spots of color that emerge out of that, including brown. It's just amazing.
There's a pleasure to the soul, to the internal nature of who God created us to be. I think we've lost touch in many ways of who we really are as a human in this environment that God has put us in on this earth. A man that we discipled in prison for 25 years was released, came to our home to live with us during his time of release. And the biggest thing for him was he had never seen the night sky. He was incarcerated for 35 years. He had never seen the night sky.
Now, just think about that. [00:39:00] We were designed to see light and the day sky, the night sky. And we come into our home... Well, it's a protected environment, but it's no different in terms of color, the need to see coordination and order, and color and systems because it surrounds us on earth.
Laura Dugger: I've never considered it that way before. Would you even say that the creative and beautiful design of our homes has eternal value?
Devi Titus: Well, not in terms of our eternal soul, but it had eternal value before we existed. I'm not saying your physical furniture in your house. No. Because all biblical principles are transferable to every culture and we must be sensitive as we talk about this subject of the cultures.
So I'm in different cultures and different environments where our homes are very, very different and what we have. [00:40:00] But the human soul never changes. You can go to Calcutta, India, and a believer who the nature of God, you have become his temple, they will take their dirt floors that used to be filled with holes and mud and gravel, and they will start sweeping it. Nobody tells them to. They'll sweep it until it becomes hard like a floor.
They'll line rocks up coming into the little entrance of their hut or shack. They'll line them up as if it's a sidewalk or a path. They just start creating beauty out of what they have because this is the God nature. So it's eternal in that God is eternal, and that nature will never change because God created that nature.
But our physical homes, you know, they change all the time. We change from big to small, from small to big. You can change color schemes, but the home itself is a reflection in a sense of the health, the nurture of our soul. It doesn't matter what our socioeconomic standard is or the nation or the culture that we live in. [00:41:13]
Laura Dugger: I really appreciate that clarification. We've covered so many important topics, but one more value that I want to touch on that you write about in your book is about a mentoring revolution. So what age would you recommend that we start seeking out a mentor or start seeking to become a mentor ourselves?
Devi Titus: Well, as a mother, you are a mentor to your children — your sons and your daughters. A mentor means you invite a person into your life and you engage all five senses. That's the difference in being a teacher and a mentor.
So when to become a mentor, I would encourage you to be sensitive. If you have daughters or sons, it can go either direction. I'm going to just talk about daughters for a moment. If you have daughters who are in elementary school, invite their friends to spend time in your home.
I just had a lady volunteering in my home on Wednesday for the mentoring program that I conduct every month called the Titus Home Experience. [00:42:19] It was her first time here, so I said, "Tayden, tell us your story." And we had about four ladies in the kitchen making and chopping and dicing some of the stove stirring.
So she started telling me about the dysfunctional home, her drug-addicted mother, her alcoholic father. And she said, "I found refuge and peace at my friend's home. And I would be there as much as possible. They were a Christian family. They took me to church. I learned what a home should be from hanging out there and I never wanted to leave."
So what if that mother had not hosted her daughter's friend who wanted to be there? That's how she saw Jesus in action, being in a home that was very different than hers. I think to be really sensitive to your children's friends and really be hospitable to them first. Those are strangers that you're bringing in. And it will make a huge impact. Not as a program, but just as incorporating them in your life, all five senses. [00:43:24]
Then if you want to develop a program out of that, like a junior high, fifth grade, surely we can bring them around the table and talk about some of the things that are important.
Laura Dugger: And what about seeking out our own mentor? Do you have any tips on that?
Devi Titus: A mentor really comes naturally through a relationship. So it's not really a regulated thing. I have developed a program whereby you can mentor so you can follow my program.
All the principles that I've talked on on the previous show that we did a number of months ago, as well as this show, are all in my home experience book. And I did a third section called A Mentor's Guide. So if you like a system where you already have women who are drawn to you in relationship and they just are constantly saying, oh, please teach us, do this. And you want to create a program, I've got it all created for you. I've made it really easy for you. Then you can schedule a time, a place, how frequently we will meet. [00:44:29]
My program is designed in seven sessions. So it doesn't drag on and on forever. You have a start, you have a finish. And usually, the people that you invite are people that you know. Now, for me, I've opened my life up to the world. So when I speak in large conferences, I invite the whole crowd. Anybody can come. It's first come, first serve. And everybody that I entertain are strangers. I've already done the other level for many, many years. And God has just taken me to this level. But you don't start here.
Laura Dugger: That's incredible to hear. And really, this topic and all of the ones that we covered were samples from your book. And I hope that everybody chooses to follow up and look at one of those today. So where can listeners find more information about your book and more about your ministry?
Devi Titus: Oh, thank you. My name is Devi, four letters, D-E-V, as in victory, I, Titus. DeviTitus.com. [00:45:36] So the Titus Home Experience is actually a four-day mentoring intensive that you come and stay with me in my home. And I am your mom. You can read all about that. And you are invited.
I would love to receive you. Nothing would thrill me most than for you to say to me, "I heard you on the radio." So that would be so awesome. You can get that information, the curriculum.
The principles that we've talked about. I teach in depth. And my daughter is a counselor professional. And she does the vital relationship skills component during the intensive. So she teaches here with me. She's a grandmother of ten. She's very seasoned in life. And I think married, I don't know, 35 or 36 years. So we are quite a team. But DeviTitus.com.
We have other books. My husband has an incredible book to men called Teleos. That means complete. [00:46:37] So the complete man: discovering your unique identity. It's phenomenal. It's 12 chapters. It's also a mentoring tool for men. But it's really the things that fathers should have taught their sons. And most of the men in your life didn't have that kind of father. So that's a great resource.
We have a marriage book of a different kind called When Leaders Live Together: How Two Strong Personalities Can Thrive in Marriage. Because my husband and I are both leaders. And most marriage books do not address that kind of relationship.
So all of our material is from a unique angle. We started writing after we were older. We were writing so we could leave a legacy of principles that aren't often taught. So that's what we have. There are more books there, but those are the primary ones. The Table Experience - Discover what Creates Deeper, More Meaningful Relationships.
So DeviTitus.com. If you want to read about our whole ministry, KingdomGlobal.com. [00:47:40] That will tell you about Larry's ministry to men. He holds conferences for men. Our missions that are in many, many nations. We invite you. We just invite you to join us in the mission that God has called us to, to mentor the nations.
Laura Dugger: As we wind down our time together today, our podcast is called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or discernment. So Devi, as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Devi Titus: Well, we've been talking about priorities. So my savvy sauce to you is make it a habit every single day when their feet hit the floor to align yourself with the fear of the Lord in your life. Say, Lord, I commit my day to you. This is the day that you've made, and whatever you bring to me, I'm going to make the best of it. Let that be the beginning of your conversation every day and you'll see that that alignment alone will change the way you're able to handle what comes to you in that day. [00:48:45]
Laura Dugger: Thank you for that wisdom. I can just hear the joy and passion in your voice. So thank you for sharing all of your savvy ways with us today.
Devi Titus: Well, thank you, Laura. It was an honor. It was a privilege. And thank you, listeners, for allowing me to invest in your life.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. [00:49:45]
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. [00:50:50]
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. [00:51:50]
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Mar 13, 2023
Monday Mar 13, 2023
201. Knowing God, Self, and Others with Jada Edwards
**Transcription Below**
Mark 12:30+31 (NIV) "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
- Do you believe God talks to all of His children?
- Why is it important to learn how God exclusively wired each of us?
- You say "You can’t love well if you don’t love close." So, how can we love close in order to love well?
Jada Edwards is an experienced author, speaker, Bible
teacher, and mentor. She has committed her life to equipping women of all ages, regardless of marital status, with practical, biblical truth to help them live more genuine lives.
Jada currently serves as the Women’s Pastor and Creative Services Director for One Community Church, where she seeks to serve the evolving communities of Collin County through creative expression and cultural relevance.
She has served in various directional capacities within the youth and singles ministries at Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship, a church with over 1,000 youth and 3,000 singles.
Jada holds a Master of Business Administration with an emphasis in Organizational strategy and has experience improving organizations though process improvement and technological initiatives.
Jada and her husband, Conway, have a son named Joah and a daughter named Chloe.
Connect with Jada through her website, Instagram, or Facebook.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Leman Property Management Company
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at Lemanproperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
My enthralling guest for today is Jada Edwards. Jada is a speaker, author, Bible teacher, and mentor. I felt like this conversation was a power hour of discipleship. I hope you enjoy this time as much as I did.
Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Jada.
Jada Edwards: Thank you so much for having me. Excited to be on.
Laura Dugger: Absolutely. Looking forward to this. Let's just start here. Will you give us a flyover of who you are and what God has called you to in this season of life? [00:01:18]
Jada Edwards: Oh, man. I am a scatterbrained wife, mother, teacher, sometimes author, doing a million things, and I still get the privilege of leading in our local church. I oversee a ministry area there. God has called me this season to navigate the chaos.
So it is primarily motherhood, because my kids are little, they're nine and five, and secondarily church and ministry, really local church is second, and then ministry life. So kind of keeping those all in the mix.
Laura Dugger: You teach the Bible so well. What would you say is your favorite thing you've ever taught on?
Jada Edwards: Man, I don't know if I have a favorite thing ever, because the Bible is so good. But I will say what I'm teaching on now is the idea of what it means to love well, and using Jesus's explanation of the greatest commandments, the foremost commandment that summarizes all scripture, to love the Lord your God, soul, and mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself. [00:02:32] And just the massive, under-appreciated implications of that. That everything that we wrestle with is a love issue. So that's what I'm getting to take the ladies at our church through right now, just what that looks like to study what God needs when He asks us to love us with all of who we are.
And I'm kind of tacking on to that, how to study the Bible. So one of my favorite things really is how to study scripture. I love getting to teach on Bible study methods. And so we're kind of doing both.
Laura Dugger: That's awesome. Do you want to give us just a little taste of how to study the Bible, ways that you recommend?
Jada Edwards: Yeah. Well, I like the inductive method. You know, it's not new. You just got to kind of keep it fresh in your mind. And that is observation, interpretation, application. Observation is that phase where you're just... what do you see? What do you know? It's background, context. Who was the audience? Who was the author? Time period. [00:03:33] What king was in power? What was going on in the world?
And then just what you plainly see in the text. You know, Jesus is answering a question. Paul is writing a letter to a church. Like just the very basic things of what you see answering kind of the who, what, when, where, why.
And then interpretation is saying, well, what does that mean? And so it's really this idea of taking the context and observation and saying, well, what does this passage mean? Which really is, what did it originally mean to the original audience?
And then application says, well, what does it mean to me? 23rd Psalm, for example, I'm not going to look for God to be my literal physical shepherd and make me lie down in the grass and be by a stream of water. So I have to know what that meant first to the original audience, to David, who was a shepherd, to what that metaphor meant to him. Now I can figure out what it means to me, how He restores me and gives me peace.
I like helping people walk through that because I think our tendency is to quickly run to application. [00:04:33] Read a verse, I want to hear a quick message. I want something tweetable, soundbite is the culture we're in right now, and I just wanted to fix something in my heart or give me a new insight or whatever.
I think if we are patient with the word and do much more mining, much more digging in the observation and interpretation phases, then we will have a richer and more accurate result when we get to application. What does it mean to me?
Laura Dugger: Do you believe that God talks to all of His children?
Jada Edwards: Absolutely. I do. I'm like, if I as a believer I believe that we are given the gift of the Holy Spirit and I think that means the power of God endures me. And so He's not silent. He's got plenty to say. The answer is that because if He wasn't speaking in scripture, I would not say I could quench him. That means I'm shutting something down that's normally happening or should be happening when I'm walking in a way that pleases God. When I don't, then I quench Him. I shut Him down. [00:05:34]
I can grieve Him, which means there's some fullness of joy and abundance that comes when I'm thriving and what God has asked me to do. Because when I don't, then the Bible says you can grieve Him, you can make Him sad, you can bring down his countenance because He's still a person.
And so, yeah, I think it's the only way that I have survived life is knowing that I can constantly hear the voice of God through His scripture, you know, through the people He brings my way and affirms by the spirit that's within.
Laura Dugger: I couldn't agree more with you. But if you had to articulate it, what do you think are some ways that God does invite each of us to lean into the Holy Spirit and hear what God is saying to us?
Jada Edwards: I really think scripture, for me, is such a gateway. And I know various denominations tend to come up with ideas. Holy Spirit is one of the most debated things among Christianity and among Christians. And so I know some people like experiential avenues, you know, some people like... you know, they think about these really distinct visitations of the spirit, things like that. [00:06:45] I'm not here to argue those points. I'm saying Jesus said with His own words, "I'm going to bring someone. He's going to be a comforter. He is going to guide you in all truth. He is going to bring to your remembrance things I've said."
So in my mind, I'm really not looking for the Holy Spirit to give me brand new revelation that's never been revealed in scripture. I'm looking for Him to apply, bring to my remembrance the things that the Word made flesh, Jesus Christ has already said. And so that's the application piece.
And, you know, he speaks so clearly through scripture. And then in His goodness, He'll have a friend or a sermon or, I mean, a commercial if you want to, anything kind of confirming what He's already said. But scripture is my home base. Even if I get a great word or great insight from a teacher or from a friend who loves God, I'm like, Okay, where is this true in scripture? That's kind of my true north.
Laura Dugger: And just to circle back to that scripture that you said you're kind of camping out on right now and it's most meaningful. [00:07:48] So as we're looking to love God more, how do you think we can incorporate some creativity into church so that we can know God better and love Him more?
Jada Edwards: Well, I think it's just, number one, being open to how God wants to use the gifts of the body. You look through scripture and you see all these kinds of spiritual gifts. Well, you already see diversity of giftedness. And then in addition to that, you see whatever generation you're living in, there's going to be a diversity of talents. And so how do I bring those in? Because God is creator. And I want to show people that there's so many different ways that God can be glorified or that we can point you back to God.
I'm very grateful that our church... my husband and I, when we planted our church, creativity, and worship were such huge pieces for us. So I actually oversee our worship arts or creative arts ministry. And so that is like our dance team. They dance once a month. Our drama team, they're doing drama pieces, skits and monologues and things like that once a month. [00:08:51] Our choir and then our next-gen, our next generation groups.
And so I love that we are intentional about incorporating those things. Because I can't tell you how many times someone has... maybe the sermon didn't resonate with them or they didn't get it, but the dance moved them and they were like, "Oh my gosh, y'all do this in church?" And we're like, "Yeah, because God created dance."
Or we have a painter or we have a violinist or we have a hip-hop rapper or whatever. It's just kind of like we try to stay very, very open to what God is saying and how He might be expressing Himself in the moment.
And it's very important to see things happening in culture. When I see artists who are killing it, like they're great poets or actors or singers or whatever, and they're not in the church, all I'm thinking is there's someone great out there that love God. Like that belongs to God in my mind. All of your music, it belongs to God. [00:09:50]
Now, my goal then is how do I find someone that does this excellently and does it to the glory of God? And we're going to try to bring them. I want to show people the world does not have the monopoly on great singing or great talent or great dancing. So that's been a really intentional piece for us to broaden people's perspective and understanding of how God gives glory through the arts.
Laura Dugger: I love that so much. I've heard you say before that crafts were meaningful to us as children, but that doesn't go away. We don't outgrow that. Would you elaborate on that thought?
Jada Edwards: Well, I think somehow assimilation starts to shut down imagination as we get older. So what seems right? Like what's the job you should have? What's going to be a good financial decision? What's the way you should raise your family or when should you have kids, or, you know, what color should your hair be? [00:10:54] It's like if I'm an adult and my hair is pink, then surely I can't have a real job, right? It's just kind of like certain things go hand in hand.
I think as adults, we have to work to stay imaginative. And I don't mean making up things about God that are not true, but imagining all the ways God might want to express Himself, might want to show Himself off. And so, you know, does that mean that we... like I said, we might have a live painter on platform. Does that mean we've got a gymnast who, you know, making sure she's covered properly? We've had a gymnast on platform doing stuff because she loves Jesus and she gets to show people how walking with the Lord has been her source of discipline. I mean, just unimaginable things.
And so it's an intentional effort to kind of get out of what is considered normal and say, Okay, how do we give back to the imaginative kids that we were? [00:11:56] Because I think we were closer to our purer selves when we were younger. And I think that's who God is. I think He's creator. I think He's creative. And so, yeah, we have to be very intentional about unpacking what seems normal and right and staying open to whatever artistic or creative thing God might want to do. Even if you don't feel artistic, He can do artistic things for you.
Laura Dugger: Those are a few ways to incorporate it into the church. But how can we also embrace creativity in our home to experience the beauty and the goodness of God?
Jada Edwards: Oh, well, I mean, I think there's so many things like what your thing is. Like if you love nature, Okay, then what are you doing in your home or with your family, with your friends that incorporates that? Do you do a nature walk? Have y'all decided to plant something as a family? Like everything is a lesson.
We just got a little mini baby herb garden. I love cooking. I love fresh herbs. My kids love dirt. I was like, this all works. [00:12:57] And we're going to plant our little baby herb garden and we're going to talk about it. And we're going to learn about growth and seeds. You know, there's a million illustrations in that. And so we do that.
Sometimes we do devotions in the morning. I'll have my son read something, you know, great book by Louie Giglio. I think it's called Incredible God or something like that. But he has a devotional book for children. But stuff like that. My son needs to practice reading and, you know, I need to make sure they're not... I need to fill their time because they can keep asking, can we watch TV? Can we do that? We're going to read this devotional. He reads it. We talk about it. My daughter chimes in. You know, it's a whole thing around the table where I don't care what it is. We'll pick a letter and say we're going to come up with 20 words that start with this letter. And then we're going to say, why did you come up with that? What made you think that?
And then we have crazy conversations about what they're thinking or what we're thinking. And so that just can't look a lot of different ways to me when we're inviting God into those spaces. And so even if it's not something artistic, I think sometimes the way we structure our day, structure our time, we got to get creative because we're in a season right now where breakfast for us, even though it's 6:30 in the morning, is our most consistent family time. [00:14:12]
And so we spend a lot of time around the bar talking like we do in the mornings. And we're getting ready and stuff, but we're not in the space where we have dinner every day at six o'clock. I mean, we have like a couple, one or two nights a week where that's consistent. But breakfast is our go-to. We're all there in the morning. And so we make the most of that. It's our family devotional time, usually with my son.
So, yeah, I just think being open to how God may want to show up in your home and your friends and your family is important.
Laura Dugger: And is that book... is it called Indescribable?
Jada Edwards: Indescribable, yes.
Laura Dugger: Yes. I'm going through that right now with our daughter Shiloh, so connecting with what you're talking about.
Jada Edwards: It's so good. And it leads to so many conversations. To your point, it sparks creativity because it always starts with some great story about sharks or caterpillars or the earth or the moon. And my son is enraptured because he loves all those things. And then it turns a corner talking about how God shows up in our lives. [00:15:12] That sparks so many good conversations. And it keeps His mind thinking that, look at God in all these things. I can see God in everything. That's really my goal for them.
Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
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[00:17:22] <music>
Laura Dugger: We're the only one who can be responsible to know ourselves and understand how God created us individually. I personally believe that this work can lead us to know God better and to be able to worship Him with more freedom. So with that in mind, Jada, do you have any examples of how we actually love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength?
Jada Edwards: Well, if you go through that kind of list and your heart is the core of your emotions and your affections, I'm old enough where we had book covers when I was in school and we drew on book covers, so-and-so loves so-and-so and all that stuff. So, I mean, I'm trying to remind them of what it's like when their heart is affectionate for someone, even if that person does nothing in return. When you have a new son or daughter or niece or nephew or when you're in love, there's so many things we just have.
We have affection for celebrities that we've never met. Like we just are heartish toward them. And so thinking about how do I love God with my heart, like my desire, not just "I need something from you." [00:18:34]
And then your soul. Obviously, the spiritual core of who you are and that goes to scripture and being led by the spirit of God.
Your mind. How do I love God with my thoughts? I've asked myself, how much space in my brain does God occupy? How many of my thoughts come back to God? Or is it I'm spending all this time in anxiety, stirring up anxiety, wondering what if and how if and what if that didn't work? And let me think of a plan A, B, C, and D. What's my backup to my backup? Like you can get down a rabbit hole of life and really God gets kind of brought in on the tail end. Like I've hit my wall of anxiety, Oh, God, can you please come in and quiet my heart and please help?
I mean, I'd rather try to, as Paul said, to take every thought captive. How do I love God with my mind? What am I letting occupy my mind? You know, I'm really sad because someone hurt me deeply and it consumes me. How could they do that? And who's going to get them back? [00:19:38] And look how it's changed my life.
The hurt is real, but how much time I will occupy my mind is going to show me what I love. Do I love living in that place of hurt? I mean, I say that doesn't sound right. It doesn't sound right to say I love being hurt, but you love what you let your mind occupy. And so, you know, how do I love God with my mind?
And then my strength. I love that because it shows me that to love God is work. You know, it's kind of like I tell people, when you get married, when you say I do at the altar, like when does the work begin? Because now you're saying, Hey, I want to merge two lives and we're going to try to love God while we're doing it. And by the way, we've known each other a few months or a few years and we think we've really figured it out.
And so when you say I do, a husband does not suddenly become endowed with amazing leadership insight. A woman does not suddenly become endowed with the ability to help and support and co-partner and all these things. That stuff takes work. To love one another takes work. [00:20:40]
And so I think sometimes as Christians, we think I'm going to become a Christian or have an experience with God and I'm going to suddenly be able to love Him. Like He's going to be my heart's desire. And nothing in scripture says that that's going to be easy. You know, Paul talks about that conflict in Romans 7. The thing I want to do is not what I do.
So when I think about loving God with my strength, it's like how much effort am I putting into it? When do I get off social media, turn off Netflix, commit to saying, I'm not going to go to bed until I spend 10 minutes in scripture or I'm not going to leave my house until I spend 10 minutes in prayer. Like it's work. And when I'm offended, it takes strength to not say something back or to think some thought that's not edifying. So anyway, those are things I think practically when it comes to loving God can be helpful.
Laura Dugger: Right. I'm even thinking along those practical lines, what you had mentioned earlier about somebody offering a dance to the Lord. That's I would see the involvement of heart, soul, mind, and strength. [00:21:41] So I see all of this layering on top of each other or the connections.
But why do you think it's important to also learn how God exclusively wired each of us?
Jada Edwards: Oh, man, I'm such a big purpose, life-calling person. I just think the more you know about who you are, who God's made you to be, the better you can live out whatever the assignment is He's giving you, the better you can glorify Him, the better you can love Him because you know what your stuff is and where you struggle and where you thrive. You better you can love people. You know what your pain points are, what your buttons are.
I think at the end of Psalm 139, when David is like, "Search me, I want you to search me, Lord and see my anxious thoughts. Is there anything in me that's not like you and like this idea of leave me in this way everlasting?"
That Psalm is actually one of my favorite Psalms, speaking of favorite scriptures. Because the whole Psalm is basically David saying, You have searched me, you have known me, you know everything about me. [00:22:42] And you know where I go, when I sit down, when there's thoughts on my mind, you know, before they even form on my lips, all these things. And then he ends by saying, search me, oh God, know my heart, try me, know my thoughts.
It's clearly not because God needs to search David so that God can know David. He's already established that He knows him. He's saying, search me so you can show me me. Show me what you see in me. Because I think it's very important for us to say, God, tell me who I am.
My calling and purpose and all that stuff is important to find. But if I don't know how I'm wired, am I fast-paced? Do I tend to be harsh with people? Am I slow-paced? Do I tend to be very analytical? Like all of these things help me know how God might want to fulfill that purpose in me. And so I'm always on mission, personally, alone by myself. I'm like, Okay, now how does this affect your work relationship? How does this affect your marriage or your kids? It applies to everything. [00:23:42] Knowing self and knowing people, I think, is how we love will.
Laura Dugger: Jada, you just are natural at weaving in the observation and the interpretation. And now as we zero in on that topic, then let's go to application. Will you elaborate on your process of stacking the personality tests?
Jada Edwards: So I just feel like people are complex. I used to love DISC, D-I-S-C, if anyone's not familiar with that. There's lots of free tests out there now because it was really super simple. Everybody was in the Myers-Briggs, but I was like, Listen, 16 combinations is a lot. So I liked DISC because it was like, are you a director, an influencer, steady, compliant? You kind of broke everything up based on your pace, if you're a fast-paced person or a slower person. They're not good or bad. They're just different. Or if you're people-oriented or task-oriented, it was real simple.
And then other things came along. StrengthFinders, Spiritual Gifts Test, obviously. Myers-Briggs is cool. There's a new version of that called 16 Personality Types, which gives names to each of those. [00:24:48] The wiring, your hard wiring is your temperament, like how God made you. You love people. You love tasks. You're analytical and precise. You're free-spirited. That's just how God made you. And that DISC kind of stuff in Myers-Briggs. Because you can have different personality types with the same motive. Are you an achiever? Are you perfectionistic? You want harmony.
And so if I'm an achiever, if I'm a quiet, introverted person, my achievement may come out in writing or counseling or something that is very introverted and one on one. If I'm an extroverted person, then I'm probably on stage, on platform. I'm a talker.
So you need like who you are and how you do life, because that speaks to motive, like why you do what you do. And then I love adding in spiritual gifts because then we get to see. Some people with the gift of hospitality are super talkative. They need to be at the door. Some people are introverted, focused workers. They're the ones planning the thing, you know?
So it's just so many facets to how we're wired. [00:25:50] And I think the more we know about ourselves and each other, we get to kind of see the fullness of who we are and be amazed that God made us in an instant. It's like, I'm going to give you all these complexities, boom, and there's 200 billion of them. Go. So, yeah, I just love it. People fascinate me.
Laura Dugger: I agree. People fascinate me as well. And I enjoy studying this. You brought up spiritual gifts and spiritual gifts are a vital part of knowing ourselves so that we can love others better. So how do you recommend that we first discover and then use and exercise and practice our spiritual gifts to serve and build up the church?
Jada Edwards: Oh, I think, you know, in my mind, that's kind of the idea of strategic service, like knowing fully who I am. And even as a church organization, knowing who we are and who we might need, and who might serve well in a particular area. It just helps us to be more intentional.
Anybody can go and pick up trash or set out chairs or be a greeter if they've got a great, inviting personality. But there's going to be some people who are really good at it. [00:27:06] There's going to be some people who pick up chairs and pick up trash just because they love the church. They have a servant heart. They're going to do it.
But that's not going to be sustainable. What's going to be sustainable is the person who's bothered by the trash on the floor, the person who does not understand why the chairs are not in a perfect row. The person who doesn't understand why the person at the door greeting doesn't look happy to be here. Like the person who finds the typo on the website, you know, the person who listens to the music and is like, those chords don't go.
I think the things that disturb us, disrupt us, those are usually places where we can lean into really strategic service. We all have to do everything very often at some point. But long term to know that I'm going to contribute more in this capacity than I am in this capacity really keeps my eyes open for what God might do.
And so you can have a servant's heart and say yes to whatever the need is but also have intentional eyes for what God might open opportunities that really suit you. And so I think it's always important to try to be as strategic as we can with our service. [00:28:08]
Laura Dugger: I've heard this taught both ways, so I would really value your insight. Do you believe that God gifts us with these spiritual gifts while we're still in our mother's womb or are spiritual gifts given to us at salvation, at that moment when we get a new heart and become a follower of Jesus?
Jada Edwards: You know, that's a good question. Scripture would make me think that the gifts, spiritual gifts are gifts of the spirit and that if you have not received the Holy Spirit as a believer, then even though God knows what your gift will be, they may not be fully endowed to you or, you know, be able to be fully realized. But then there's this other side that our lives are purpose-driven, even before our spiritual gifting is revealed. Because Paul says in Galatians 5, "I was called and set apart from a mother's womb." David says, "You formed me in my inward parts." Like there is this intentionality even in the womb. [00:29:12]
And so I would probably have to process that more. But if I was going to be nuanced about it, I would probably say that calling, purpose, intentionality, God gives us in the womb at conception and that He obviously knows our spiritual gifts. But I think that we only fully realize them, able to receive them once we become believers. I can't reconcile not being a Christian and being able to use your spiritual gifts. I can't reconcile that. And so I think they're there waiting for us to choose Jesus.
Calling, purpose, yes. Because a lot of people are walking in some version of their calling and their purpose before they become Christian. Then come Christian, they're like, oh, this is what God meant. Paul, he was still teaching. He was still passionate. He was still preaching, but different agenda. You know, so you see in the life of Paul, there was still activity in a life dedicated to what he was good at. It's just that when he found Jesus, that same gifting, that same wiring just became used for the Lord. [00:30:18] And then he was, I believe, given the spiritual gifts that come with salvation.
Laura Dugger: That's a great example, because then you see very different fruit produced from the gifts prior to encountering Jesus and after.
Jada Edwards: Same personality. That's why I try to tell people there's no right or wrong personality. Paul didn't become quiet. He didn't become shy. He didn't become less passionate. He was still pretty direct. He still said what he wanted to say and how he felt like. You know, he was still a zealot. It was just that it was for the Lord.
And so his life is a reference point for me often to encourage people that whatever your personality and how you're wired and what you're good at, man, God gives you that at birth. And using it in spiritual divine ways with certain endowments, certain portions of faith or hospitality or pastor and a shepherd, those portions you get as a believer and then they partner with how he's already wired you and then you see like that divine calling. [00:31:17]
Laura Dugger: There is an exciting project taking place behind the scenes right now, and I would love to invite you to participate. I will give you more details as I'm able, but for now, here's my request. Will you email me your personal story of a specific way God has clearly shown up in your life? Big or small, I want to hear an account of the way He made Himself known to you and maybe received credit for an answered prayer or a way He worked out a situation in a miraculous way or how He displayed his power in your life. There's no limit to the type of story to submit as long as it's true. So please email me your story at this email address, info@thesavvysauce.com. I can't wait to read your story. Thanks for sharing.
I've also heard you share before that it's our work to have a PhD knowledge of ourselves, and that's for everyone's benefit. But then to realistically expect others to have more of an elementary knowledge of us. But hopefully conversations like this can spur us on to more thoughtfully observe and learn more about others so that our degree in others becomes more advanced in our knowledge of them. [00:32:38]
So as we change gears now from knowing ourselves, how do you think we can grow in knowing others well?
Jada Edwards: I would say a lot of times with the same tools that I apply to the study of scripture and the same tools I apply to learning myself. So personality and strength and all that kind of stuff is so important because the more I know myself and I become aware of other personality types or other strengths or other spiritual giftings, then the more I'm aware and I'm able to see that in other people.
And so when I do spiritual gifts or when I've done my spiritual gifts, I don't just look at my teaching, leadership, whatever it is. I want to learn all of them. So when I see someone I go, "I think you have a spiritual gift of hospitality, you know? And so I want to learn those things because they prepare me to be able to speak into the lives of others and learn them and appreciate them. [00:33:35]
And when I compare it to the study of scripture, I say, you know, observation, because even with all the tests and all the assessment in the world, it still does not tell you a person's life experience. I could take a person with the exact same Myers-Briggs, the exact same personality, the exact same strengths or whatever they're using, and they're still not going to be the exact same person because their households were different, their childhood experiences were different, the value. I mean, there's so much nuance to our actual life experiences, that assessments and those foundational things about how we're wired, they're just the beginning.
It's as valuable to take those tools and take scripture that we apply to ourselves and ask God to give us discernment into others. Because I think Philippians 2:3 says, You put others' interests over your own. Well, I can't if I don't know their interests. If I keep projecting my interest to your interest, then I can't love you well.
And I'm just mad that you didn't remember my birthday. And I'm not thinking about the fact that I didn't grow up in a household that cared if it was my birthday. [00:34:38] You know, I'm just thinking about my life. So those little things, they start to become real chasms, you know, in our ability to love well, when we can't get outside of ourselves to really educate ourselves on other people.
Laura Dugger: I love one of your previous quotes where you say, "You can't love well if you don't love close." So how can we love close in order to love well?
Jada Edwards: You know, nobody wants to love close unless we've got some kind of warranty or guarantee that this is going to go well. Because it's like, What God? Yeah, it's risk. It's so much risk. Every time, I really have to do a couple of things. That's one. Always choose transparency and authenticity. Like that is hard for me. I am a guarded person. I'm a focused person. I don't tend to naturally gravitate toward transparency.
God has had to stretch that muscle in me so that I can embrace my humanity and my dependence and who I am as a creature. That I don't have all together. [00:35:51] And so asking Him, Okay, God, how do you want me to be authentic in this moment, be transparent in this moment? Someone's going through something. Do I give them a scripture or should I just tell them "I've been through that. And let me tell you my story a little bit"?
And then also asking God when I should be vulnerable, because you can be transparent and authentic and I can tell you, "Hey, marriage is hard. My marriage is not perfect. A, B, and C." Being vulnerable, saying, "Here's what we're going through right now." Well, that's not for everybody. But I still have to have my heart open to how God wants me to do that, because that's how I love close. I mean, most of the time we think closeness comes... We want close love to come because we give up very little and the other person gives up a lot. And that's why we get married. Someone's made me happy. You know, even if we love Jesus, we're naturally self-centered people. So we're like, Oh, this person made me happy or I can see our life together.
And loving close really is I take the risk because I know God is my advocate.[00:36:54] God loves me thoroughly and completely and unconditionally. I don't want you to hurt me. But if you hurt me and disappoint me, God's love... He's got me and I can be okay.
My image for that... I think I talk about it on my podcast. It's the book I'm working on. My image for that that always comes to mind is the Garden of Gethsemane. That Jesus brought in three men that He knew were going to fail into His most vulnerable moment. And they fall asleep. He doesn't unfriend them. He didn't cancel them. He gives them another chance and even a third chance. And they never get it. They never are able to stay awake with Him during his toughest time.
And so when I see that and think about that story, I'm reminded that community and loving close and loving in a real vulnerable way is such a part of how we're wired. That even when people fail us, God does not excuse us from being transparent and vulnerable. He's like, yeah, disappointment is a part of this world. And guess what? You disappoint people, too, Jada. So it's part of this world. [00:37:58]
But there's going to be some moments that come because you're vulnerable, willing to take a risk from really meaningful relationships that you cannot have if you try to self-protect the whole way. It's a risk. You're probably going to get hurt. Someone's going to hurt you, not say the right thing or betray your trust. And they didn't mean to. They just were talking too much or whatever. And you got to decide, do I want to cut that off and isolate another person from my life or, God, are you asking me to leave? That's what it means to live close. It's hard.
Laura Dugger: Yeah. Is there any other specific scripture that informs your desire to live in biblical community?
Jada Edwards: Well, I just think about... I mean, the way Jesus modeled it with the disciples is so significant. I think for the man that lowered... the man who could not walk down on, who was on the cot and they lowered him into the roof, I think about what does it mean to have friends that have walked with you long enough that know that here's an opportunity for your life to be changed. [00:39:05] We're going to do whatever it takes. We're going to mow you through the roof. Thing is sold out. We're going to make sure you get there. He could not have done that on his own. He needed a community of people to help him do that.
I think whether it's Old Testament, you know, Jonathan and David, and you see those things in a friendship type community. But even David and Nathan, that Nathan wasn't David's friend, but he showed him the error of his ways after he had an affair with Bathsheba and had her husband killed. That's still community that you need. Everybody's not going to be a friend, but there's so many ways that we can let people in. Because David could have said, "Hey, Nathan, you know what? We're not even that close. You don't have any right to bring this to me."
But his heart was open because he knew he had dishonored the Lord. And so we can find that the way we're wired to live in a community, it shows up in so many ways. But when I think about it, the bottom line is it's risky. That means I got to keep being willing to trust God to heal me, give me wisdom so that I don't shut people off when I get disappointed. [00:40:08]
Laura Dugger: I love how you bring that scripture to life about the four friends lowering the man who cannot walk because it makes me think of Psalm 16. The first part of verse eight says, "I have set the Lord continually before me." And so that's part of maybe our responsibility or our part or what we can be doing. But also then in biblical community, those friends, they were crucial to be the ones to set this person before the Lord. And I think that's something we can do for our friends.
Jada Edwards: And I think God is so faithful to bring us people. Sometimes they're what I call guides or like God friends, like that Nathan and David or Paul and Barnabas. They're not many people you go to dinner with and chit-chat with. But they're people who are intentional. They care about God's purpose in your life and things like that. And sometimes He just brings us girlfriends.
You know, I think so often about Mary and Elizabeth. Like only God would have her cousin, who should have been barren, also be pregnant with John the Baptist. And now they have this shared experience. [00:41:16] They're both in this place like no one else can understand. No one else can understand. And God gives them each other.
So much so that it's just, you know, their babies leaped for joy in their womb when they connected. I just think God is so faithful that even if you think, "No one gets me. I don't do friendships. I can't find a real closeness with someone," He will do that. He will find you a Mary or an Elizabeth that is like you cannot believe how much you all have in common. I just think He's gracious like that to give us things that give us ways to lead into community. But we have to be asking all the time, "God, where do I... is this a friendship that I need to pursue? And yes, risky, back to my word.
Laura Dugger: It's risky, but... oh, that is so good, Jada. Because it's true. He is so faithful. And when He gives... We see this modeled in scripture. When He gives people a calling, He brings alongside an encourager or a friend. [00:42:15] So Barnabas to Paul, or like you said, Elizabeth to Mary. I love that.
Let's combine all of these pieces that we've chatted about so far. We've talked about knowing God, knowing ourselves and knowing others to love all better. So I just want to hear a few more of your best practices. So as you've grown to know yourself better, what is some wise stewardship that's resulted?
Jada Edwards: That's a very good question. Let's see, if I know myself better, I think I'm a better steward of my time. I am kind of an achiever, extroverted. I want everything to be great all the time. And so my tendency is to say yes when I have a certainty that I'm going to be successful. I know I can do that well, I'm going to say good.
But as I've gotten to know myself, I know that God grows my faith when I have opportunities where I'm kind of out of my comfort zone. Like I really need to lean on Him because this is not something I've done 20 times. [00:43:21] And so I'm starting to see Him and trust me with certain things like that. And I'm like, now, why God am I doing this? And He's like, yeah, because you trust me and I want you to.
So there's a discomfort that I'm becoming comfortable with saying, Okay, God is going to do this. I have tried to be a better steward of my parenting. My son is very compassionate and emotive and relational and caring and I tend to be less compassionate and more task driven and like that. And so that has challenged me as I've gotten to know myself and thought about who my son is and how he's wired. Like that gap between our relationship and why I get frustrated because he can't get over it when he's having a sad day. And God's like, You need to chill. You're going to make him think this is not okay. So he is.
And so there's been moments where it's easier to hang out with my daughter because we're wired a little more similarly. But I have to lean in and steward my time with them differently. [00:44:22]
It seems so small, but it used to be convenient for me to put them to bed together. In the last year, it just takes a little longer to get them to bed, but I put her to bed first because it literally takes her five minutes. She don't need a story or something. She's like, good night. My son is like, I want a song. I want a story. He's probably going to tell me something about his day and I have to dig in and go, He needs these five to ten minutes to just kind of talk without Chloe interrupting, without me being in a hurry. And so that little thing has changed our bedtime routine, but it has enriched our relationship.
So as I learn about myself and God shows me about others, whether they're family or friends or people in ministry, He gives me small ways to make adjustments that are probably meaningful to them. I don't think He's saying overhaul your whole life. He's just like, just be discerning, be interested in others, be interested in Me, and I'll show you baby steps that you can just make adjustments along the way and just be better every day. [00:45:22]
Laura Dugger: Just to elaborate on that a little bit further, are there any other systems or habits that you've put in place that help you choose and discern where to invest and manage your time and energy?
Jada Edwards: I don't know if it's systems. I kind of have a grid that I think through. I'm like, Okay, how does this affect our family routine? How does this affect my commitment at our local church? I teach Bible study there on Wednesdays. So I kind of just have been more intentional about my priorities and thinking through all those things. And does this line up with what I believe God's calling us to do this season?
So I think taking time to slow down and ask those questions. But the trick is I can't answer those questions unless I've done the work on really seeking the Lord on what our family's priorities are, what He's called me to do. So there's a whole ongoing investigation with God. What are you trying to do in my life? Because then those things drive my priorities. [00:46:22]
You know, I've been intentional about Sabbath. I feel much more confident in what I say yes to and no to. I think it's given me wisdom how to navigate relationships. You know, I'm not trying to worry if everybody's okay. I mean, I do sometimes, but not in an unhealthy way. So it's just been a lot of little things, I think, you know, God is continuing to grow me.
Laura Dugger: There's so much practical wisdom packed into that answer. I love it. Jada, you've been such an encouragement. What's the best place that we can follow up and find you online?
Jada Edwards: I love Instagram. I'm getting better at Facebook. I have a Facebook page, simply Jada Edwards, easy to find. Instagram, I think, is I am Jada Edwards. It's pretty easy to find. And we have some podcasts as well. And you can find those on your platform. Just Jada Edwards. So simple. Or you can go through the website, though. And the website has many books and Bible studies and all that kind of stuff on there. [00:47:24]
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will link to all of that in the show notes for today's episode. You may already be aware that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. So Jada is my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Jada Edwards: Well, my savvy sauce is probably based on everything we've said. Know God, know yourself, know people and you'll be able to love well.
Laura Dugger: Love it. It has been such a joy to get to chat with you and learn more about each of those topics. And it's such an important conversation because that knowing leads to loving and growing in love is always a worthy pursuit. So, Jada, you are just captivating to listen to. And I delight in the way that God wired you which came out in this conversation. So thank you for seeking to live faithfully for Him and thank you for being my guest today. [00:48:30]
Jada Edwards: Thank you so much for having me.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [00:49:31] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [00:50:30]
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [00:51:34] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Mar 06, 2023
Monday Mar 06, 2023
200. Planting Seeds of Faith in Our Children with Courtney DeFeo
**Transcription Below**
Galatians 6:7 (NIV) Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
- When you reflect back on parenting, what are you most pleased with, regarding ways you and your husband chose to invest in your family?
- What are a few of your favorite ways to plant and cultivate seeds of faith in everyday family life with your own kids?
- How can we disciple our children to be a friend to God?
Courtney DeFeo wants to be a resource and help to YOU, more than she want you to be impressed by HER. She believes God gifted all of us with unique talents and passions. She's had fun discovering a few of hers and using them to support her fellow moms, parents and women in this journey called life. What’s the point of great ideas if we just hoard them to ourselves? However, it’s important to note – she in a “Season of Rest” right now! Find out more on her website: www.courtneydefeo.com.
Other Episodes Mentioned:
Finding Your Purpose as a Mom with Courtney DeFeo
*Special Patreon Release* Ideas for Spreading Generosity with Courtney DeFeo
Self-Care in Motherhood with Karen Stubbs
Life is Better with the Holy Spirit with Jeannie Cunnion
Thank You to Our Sponsors: Solid Rock Christian Academy and Chick-fil-A East Peoria
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: Our sponsors for today's episode are Solid Rock Christian Academy and Chick-fil-A East Peoria. Check out solidrockchristianacademy.org for their alternative schooling option with a solid biblical view. Visit cfeastpeoria.com for available employment opportunities or to place your catering order.
Courtney DeFeo is my returning guest today, and she is an engaging storyteller and resource genius, so she's going to share a lot of encouragement and direction with us, specifically as it relates to parenting in partnership with Jesus, so that we can provide rich soil in our children's lives and hopefully help them cultivate seeds of faith, which will provide blessings and benefits now and forevermore.
Here's our chat. [00:01:19]
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Courtney.
Courtney DeFeo: Oh, thank you. I'm glad to be back.
Laura Dugger: Well, the first time you were on The Savvy Sauce was over four years ago, I believe, so I can't wait to hear an update. What phase of life are you and your family currently in?
Courtney DeFeo: I can't believe it, but we're in the teen age, which is just crazy. So they're 13 and 16, 8th grade and 10th grade. Ron is still working at American. We're here in Texas. We'll get some time on the end. I'll tell you about my December, but we had a cancer journey with Ron this Christmas.
So a lot of what you'll hear me talk about today comes from a very surreal point of perspective. It's like, "Nothing matters. My husband's alive." And it makes all the things seem very trivial when you go through that. So he's happy to report he's doing great.
They got a pancreatic cancer. They found it early. They got everything out via a surgery, which is just an absolute miracle with this kind of cancer. And he doesn't need radiation or chemo. [00:02:19] So we are floating on a miracle and really thankful to have our main guy around for many years.
Laura Dugger: Wow. I have goosebumps everywhere hearing that. Goodness.
Courtney DeFeo: I know. I say it real flippantly, but I think we're going to probably do an Instagram Live or Facebook to tell the whole story because it's truly like God's hand through the whole thing. And so there's a lot of details. I hate to lob that on people, but it's real. Our new lens of life is coming through that. And so I wanted y'all to... at least I have a heads up as I talk through some of these things.
Laura Dugger: Yes. Well, certainly keep us posted so that we can all tune into that. Now I'm especially excited to get your perspective. So when you and Ron do reflect back on parenting, what are you most pleased with regarding ways that you two chose to invest in your family?
Courtney DeFeo: Yeah. I think across the board, the time spent. And I don't think that's in a way of like quantity of time. I think it's quality of time. [00:03:21] We have really put them as a huge priority in both of our lives. And it goes consistently. Because it just flies. Everybody says that, but it's like here we are. My oldest is driving, and she's not home very often. She's gone all the time.
And so I just look back and think that those moments in the carpool and at the playground and at their field trips, you just can't get them back. And so we're so thankful that we've had time with them.
Laura Dugger: And is there anything that especially stands out? Was it more of those little moments that you're talking about or travels or the big celebrations? What comes to mind?
Courtney DeFeo: I think we do it differently. I do stay home for the majority of my day, so I'm able to be at all the things. And I do want to make a caveat up front that I heard one of my best friends, Sissy Goff, is a counselor. And she said that one of the danger traps that we're falling into as parents is making them our entire world. And so I do want to just set that stage that we are not obsessed with them to the point that they are our entire lives. [00:04:22] We still have our marriage. We still have our own walk of faith. I still have speaking and teaching and all the things that I do. But they're a pretty significant part, and we do intentionally spend a lot of time with them.
So I think that we can, as a culture, get kind of pulled into obsession where they're the only thing that matters. And then we can also swing too hard to the other way and neglect them. So I think wherever you fall on that tension is just knowing it and going, Oh, I'm creeping into helicopter mom or I'm creeping into not paying attention to them at all. And so it's different for each person.
But to answer your question, I'll use Ron. So Ron is an executive in America and he works a lot. And so he early on in our parenting read that book by Andy Stanley, Choose to Cheat, and was like, "You're going to have to cheat something. You can't do everything." So he will, when he's able, choose to cheat work or a meeting.
And as people know that... and sometimes he can't leave. But he has found that every morning he can take them to school. And so he has consistently over time taken them to school most days of the week, which I love. I'm like, yay, I'll stay in my pajamas. [00:05:22] But that's his window of like they listen to music, he catches up with them, they laugh.
And it's not as much time as I spend with them, but I can guarantee you looking back, they'll be like, My dad was there every morning. And he certainly puts the phone down and talks to them in the evening as well. But I'm so proud of him for that, because with his job, there's not a whole lot of like, Oh, I can just walk away for four hours and kind of sit at the field trip. There's not a lot of that. But when he's able, he is so there and so attuned to them and making little memories.
But as a family, we do like to travel. Obviously, with American, we've got some perks. And I like to be the house as well. We'll talk about that more in the teen years. But I like to have their friends over as often as possible. You learn a lot when you're in the house where people come. So mine is typically like saying yes to the sleepovers and the parties and the things so I can just keep an eye on who's in their life and pour into their friends as well. So that's a lot of material, but that's a few ways.
Laura Dugger: Yeah, that is so good. And I'll link back to our previous episodes together. [00:06:23] But in those we focused more on younger children. So today I want to switch our attention to those tween and teen years. You always have fabulous and fun ideas for planting and cultivating seeds of faith in our children. So what are a few of your favorite ways you do this in everyday life with your own girls?
Courtney DeFeo: Another caveat I want to say upfront is that Jeannie Cunnion has said this before, but we are significant as parents. We're not sovereign and God is sovereign. And so I will say a lot of things that we did or I did, but with the hope that you guys understand like God has moved through this whole thing. And I can't take credit for all the good. I certainly don't want to take credit for all the bad.
So it's like this constant thing where I want to encourage parents to be active and be intentional, but not put the entire responsibility on yourself. God redirected some things I thought were the path and they weren't the path for my kid. It's a balance. It's a balance. There's tension in all of it. [00:07:21]
So for middle school and high school, I have been very focused on people and places. So who is in their life and then where they are going to specifically experience God? That may look different for every family. They happen to be at a Christian school, but I don't think that's a mandate, you know? But I didn't want them there unless the faith was real. If it was a Christian school by label and people were not walking it out, we would not be there anymore. That is one place.
Camps. I know people have different feelings about overnight camps. But for one of my children, she's been significantly impacted by her faith in a specific overnight camp. And so we make time and set aside money to make sure she's in that environment.
Church on Wednesday. I know different, like the Northeast people are like, wouldn't that be nice to have a youth group program? But for here in Texas, where it's like Bible belt. We have let them try different ones and not... And for a while I wanted to make them go to our church, but they, for a season, went to other churches where their friends were. And they were just getting around people that would say the same thing that I would and a voice that they care about. [00:08:25]
So there's a phase where they just roll their eyes at you, you know, but then if you dial in a mentor or small group leader or a pastor that would say the same things you want to say, but they receive it differently because it's someone cool, someone younger. And so you'll really see that shift happening in middle school and high school where they start paying attention to other voices more than yours, whether it's their friends or other leaders. It's not to say they're not listening. They just may not go like, Mom, that was a good word. Thanks for sharing that.
So people and places. And I keep quoting people because I don't want to take their material, but Andy Stanley and Sandra had a big impact on me and their parenting ways. But they would say how to dial influences and dial them out. So by having kids in my car or having kids over at the house, I can see which friends need to come over for more often because my kids are completely themselves or they're comfortable. [00:09:20] And I can see which ones are going to kind of draw them in a direction I don't want them to go.
So it's not completely micromanaging that, but being aware of which people you want to make real easy. Like, "Hey, let's invite someone over. Hey, let's go to coffee with her mom." And making those opportunities easily available for people that just bring out the best in them.
High school, I'm learning painfully to let go and watching how God works. You know, like I wanted Ella to be on the tennis team, she didn't love it and she decided to get a job. She has learned more and grown more through that job than she ever would have been tennis for her particularly.
And so kind of watching them fail, so to speak, or do things not according to your plan, going like, "God, you know all the things that she needs to learn as a high schooler and you're going to put her in places that I didn't see coming.
So I am struggling, if I'm honest. It's a lot of them being away and I like to be real involved. So I'm forcing myself to ungrip and slowly loosen that grip so that when they leave for college, I'm not in a coma crying on the floor. [00:10:25] So there's a few ideas for those years.
Laura Dugger: I love how you articulate those ideas. It kind of makes me hungry for more. If you expand it beyond those tween and teen years, are there any things that stand out specifically when they were younger that you're so grateful you did to cultivate their faith life?
Courtney DeFeo: Yeah. Overall looking back and so glad we invested I think baby's years. I'm so glad I held them. I think we can get so wrapped up into schedules and doing it right. That's like, don't forget you have a newborn for just a little season. Hold them, not all the time, but snuggle them, enjoy them.
On the downside, I shopped too much. I was all into the matching smocking outfits, you know? And looking back, I'm like, "Man, I spent a whole lot of time making sure they looked perfect. And I don't know if that is probably worth." I've been doing every now and then, but I remember being obsessed for a season to make sure every... and I have girls, so it was like every season they matched and had the perfect dress. That was a probably great time spent.
I also am glad we were in small groups. [00:11:25] We had a consistent small group through church that just put me around other believers, other moms and dads together that were kind of thinking ahead and thinking how we were going to do this in a way that honors God. And that constant "just work on your own faith and in your own marriage" really set up perspective to not just drown when it's physically draining and just be like, Okay, I need to pull away for a minute, pull up, and see that life is bigger and more complicated than this one season of whatever the formula thing was or whatever the sleeping issue was. And so our small groups have the same baby years were huge.
Toddlers in preschool. I am so thankful we played and we focus on discipline. And you will see that with many people that didn't really want to discipline their kids. And then they get to like age eight, nine, they're like, Oh my gosh, we probably should have told them some boundaries.
So I would say toddlers just is not fun, but just stay consistent at teaching them that you are the mom and dad. They can't run in the street. They can't throw Cheerios at people. [00:12:26] Like those things will play out that they will respect your voice and know that you mean it later when you can't physically pick them up and put them in timeout when they're in elementary school.
Then lastly, at elementary, the carpool was just huge to consistently be there, field trips. And not all of them. I don't want to put this guilt on someone that's working full-time. It's not really the quantity. Like you don't have to go to everyone. But show up in a couple of their environments so they can see that you're present.
And then play dates. Just really getting them around other kids and teaching them how to share. The creativity that comes from playing is just massive for them.
So those are a few time investments. And then if you want to, we can get into some of the faith aspects for sure.
Laura Dugger: Yeah, absolutely. Feel free to elaborate on the faith part and also how you are making sure that your home is one that's welcoming for them to now bring their friends. Are there any practical things you do?
Courtney DeFeo: Yeah. I'll touch on that one first. [00:13:27] I think that even when we were shopping for a home, we had that lens in mind. Like what did the backyard look like? You know, can we get a trampoline? Like are there things that they can do here? And I don't think it has to do with money. It's just like, is the home set up a way? And then it's not like... I remember some of my friends' homes growing up were so perfect. We literally couldn't walk in certain rooms so they had to vacuum it.
So we're pretty like go with the flow. Like you'll look in my kitchen and there's hoverboard tracks all over the cabinets at the base because I let them ride hoverboards to the house. They learned to skate in here. I guess just caution people not to make your home so perfect that kids don't... And you don't want to have respect. They can't just destroy the place and spray paint the dining room, but they can feel comfortable to be kids.
My mom when I was growing up would put a cereal box... Like if you came over lunch, you said, I really like Lucky Charms, she would have Lucky Charms in the top of the pantry every time. So our pantry had literally like 25 boxes of cereal.
I'd say that practically because there was something about my mom's environment and my dad, but my mom specifically was like, You are welcome here. [00:14:32] You're not a bother. You belong in our home. We're excited to see you. And that does wonders. There's a lot of kids that don't feel that and your home may be their only place to feel seen.
So it's some of the practical stuff, but it's also just like knowing what's going on with them, checking in with them, greeting their friends and the place that they just want to keep coming back because they feel, you know, God's love through you. So lots of fun.
And I try to say yes as often as I can on the sleepovers and the annoying things with the perspective that like, it will not always be this way. [00:15:04] Like it will not always be a hundred sleeping bags and chips everywhere and all that. So yeah, there's a couple examples there.
Then on the faith things, I mean, this is such a hard question because every kid is different and some kids don't really grasp a hold of the gospel until they're in college. Some kids are early age. So anything you can do to keep that conversation going, not in a mandate, you're not... you know, you don't want them to feel like, You're not enough. You're not living up to this spiritual, you know, angel that I spoke to, but that it's a real thing and it's not always easy.
Obvious statement is that we need to live it out. That we need to be talking about our own journey. We need to pray. We need to be in the word. And I haven't always done that amazing. But I will say, with this cancer journey, they have seen our faith come to life. It's like we believe what we say we believe and we are going to... Ron has been on his knees on a pillow every day since he got that diagnosis, praying and thanking God for what He did.
They've seen our friends at our community of faith show up and lift us up in a way that we all felt this surreal kind of peace. [00:16:06] It's like, you can't just make that up and snap it into place. It's as years of investing in what we believe in that really came to light.
Also, and this was all my first book, I probably talked about it in your first podcast, but I'm really big into them experiencing faith over hearing constant lectures. So if you say, "Hey, generosity is a huge piece of who we are as a family, is what God thinks is a great idea, how do we do that regularly as a family and not just talk about it? Because words are good, but it's really when you see the action of faith play out that that sinks something in them. And I know it was true of me growing up. My mom just lived out service and loving others in a way that it was real, and you saw it.
Okay, next one. I know these are all over the place but... But I do think, like I said, now in these high school years, like do I truly trust that God has the best plan for Ella. And now that she's in high school, it is hard.
For example, I want her to go to Auburn. She may not go to Auburn. But I really want her to. [00:17:08] So I'm going to show her Auburn, but ultimately say to her, "I trust that God's going to guide you to the school and if you should go to college and which one. And really live that and not try to manipulate her entire life. It's easy for us to do it because we had certain dreams of what these little girls may grow up to be, but consistently putting them around youth groups that make God seem fun and where they can get a message.
And also reading your own experience. Like if I get an email from someone that something impacted them, or I prayed for them, I will read to them like, Hey, this is what happened while y'all were at school today. This is how God showed up and I can't believe it. So kind of a constant awe of what He's doing.
[00:17:46] <music>
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[00:20:16] <music>
Laura Dugger: You partnered with ParentQ to release this unique study and journal for moms and tween daughters, so will you just tell us more about that?
Courtney DeFeo: Yeah. I think I was getting into... there's a real shift, and you know this from your girls, it's all so cute. Like kindergarten, first grade, second grade, it's rainbows, unicorns, make-believe, it's all so sweet. And then all of a sudden around third grade, third, fourth, these girls and boys switch to be like, Oh my gosh, those other friendships are hard, my body's changing. Like it's like they wake up into a new level of life that is hard to watch because you're like, Oh my goodness, they never doubted their confidence, and now all of a sudden they don't like their legs or whatever the thing is.
And so I was looking around for a study that I could do with moms and daughters because I do feel like in that third, fourth, sixth age range, they're still thinking we're pretty cool and they're not embarrassed to be with us. Around middle school, that shifts and they're like, "Please don't come in. Don't show up, I don't want you around." And then I'm happy to say they come back around. Ella wants me around here in 10th grade. [00:21:17]
But all that to say, I wanted something for moms and daughters to talk about, not just Jesus, because of course we want to walk them through the Bible, but really the topics that were consistently hard and hurting most of these girls. And I was watching it come to life with my kids.
So I knew it was supposed to be a study. I knew it was supposed to be for tween girls, about 9 to 13. And God just kept pressing on me certain topics. I also knew I wasn't capable of doing the whole thing. So I called my buddies at Orange that does curriculum in churches all over the world and just said, "Hey, if I write most of it, will you help me design it? Will you help make it better?" And they said, yes.
And so we put out Treasured a few years ago. It's got six different sessions and there's a journal and a study. But the first one's about identity. The question is, what's unique about me? The second one is body. What's happening to my body? The third one is how do I handle my emotions? Obviously emotions. Then friends, then technology, and then faith.
So I felt like if we did those six really well, we would really touch on a majority of what is consuming their hearts and minds during that time. [00:22:22] It really set them on a trajectory where they might not get it and succeed at it, but they would have some seeds planted that when it's middle school and when it's high school, they can go back to, oh my gosh, what did we... you know, Lord put my heart back on what we already knew about friendships. And this is feeling weird again. How should I kind of anchor my thoughts on that topic around what Jesus might say?
There's a DVD and... I don't know who has DVDs anymore. But there's a digital version, we'll say, of the study that you can do in small groups of moms and daughters. And then there's a journal that comes alongside. And it's really designed for moms and daughters to do together in their own quiet space.
Laura Dugger: So the journal portion, can you share a little bit more what that's about?
Courtney DeFeo: Yeah, for sure. I'm a visual learner and I know my kids have very little attention span. So there's a lot of drawing and interacting with your mom in there. So for example, I'm looking at the identity one right now. It takes them through an exercise where they fill out a thumbprint. [00:23:24] Like what is unique about me? And you draw in there. And it's the chance for a mom to say like, I see unique things about you. You're different than your friend. Your friend isn't better than you. You're just different because I see the way God did this.
Also, I've had a lot of moms reach out and be like, oh my gosh, did I need this? So it's an exercise of a daughter reaching into some of these truths, but then a mom right alongside her either doing the crafty activity or reading through some of the questions.
My hope at the bottom of my heart is that people have conversations that this tool just kind of spurred up and set them in their laps versus like, Hey, we're going to learn from Courtney and Orange and just read out this stuff and memorize it. It's more of like just stirring the pot. Like as we think about body, there's a lot of things that come with body. We don't have the sex talk, but it tees you up to talk about some of these things that would naturally not come up otherwise.
So I really prayed when we were making it that these conversations would just become so normal that let's say emotions, when a daughter did struggle with her emotions, it's not the first time she's thought of it and it's not awkward for her to come back to her mom and say, "I feel so jealous" or "I feel so teary all the time" or "I'm angry. [00:24:35] Like what do I do with that?" And they can kind of circle back and talk through some things that, you know, this started with them.
Laura Dugger: I love how you had mentioned previously that you love that experiential learning. So can you just give one example of an activity that's involved in this study?
Courtney DeFeo: For sure. Let me pull it through. It's been so long. I picked it up this morning and I thought, "Man, I don't even know if I went through this in detail with a Larson. So I needed to circle back to it. But a couple of things it has in there.
I had a 12-year-old or 11-year-old that I trusted write a devotion and they can read out from another girl's words, which I think is super important. One of the things with emotions, I feel like the main idea is that you actually can be in control of your emotions more than you think. So it's not like total control, but it's like you don't want them in the driver's seat. Like if you have a car, most of the tween world is that the emotions are just going so high because your body is changing. Your physical body is changing and your emotional interior is changing. So when they feel totally out of control and they just want to go punch something, okay, that's real. [00:25:39] So let's start naming it. Like, were you angry? Were you hungry?
And then it gives them an activity on how to work through that and how to gauge on their temperature. Okay, what are we feeling? First, it tells them, "First stop. What are you feeling? And then you draw it. Now breathe.
Next one is name it. What are you feeling? Are you frustrated, overwhelmed, scared? Then refocus. What are things that can help you reset? Like maybe for one kid it's a bath, one kid, let's say, turning on some praise music. And just equipping them for things I think I'm working on as a 46-year-old. Like how do I not let emotion in the heat of the thing dictate my whole day? How can I kind of reset?
And kind of pull up and look at it. Because when they're little, it's mainly sadness and anger that come bursting out, but we know that there's more to that. And if they act only when they're hangry, life isn't going to be good. I mean, it's like, hold on, get a snack, take a little breather, and let's come back at that.
You know, you probably had moments as an adult where you send an email in the heat of a moment when someone's hurt your kid and you're like, "Oh my gosh, could I get that email back? [00:26:44] Because I shouldn't have said that when I was so angry and hurt, you know, that kind of thing. So lots of practical things in there.
Then on the study there's videos from younger girls. It's not me. I try to find someone cool and hip and 20-something to walk through a really quick video. And there's always a visual. So they may be holding up in the one session they talk about clothing yourself. So the girl has on different hats and clothes.
I love the videos. Even if you don't want to do a small group, they're digitally available and you can just pull them up. And there's questions that come with it. Because I want them to hear from someone in a real short, kind of a short message, but kind of reframes their thinking.
And then the journal is more activities. Let's draw this. There's verses. There is coloring versus all kinds of cutie things in here.
Orange did a great job. I kind of set them up and then they made it really awesome. So I can say it's awesome.
Laura Dugger: That is fantastic. Even when it comes to podcasts, I know I love sharing podcast episodes with our daughters. And I wonder if other moms are even doing the same thing right now with theirs. [00:27:47] So it's helpful to kind of go further into those topics to see if Treasured study is a good next step for them.
Courtney DeFeo: I do think the questions are a key piece because.my natural bet... It's funny that I'm passionate about experiences over lecture, but my natural bet is to sit them down and tell them some wisdom, you know? And I have to constantly pry my fingers off of that too and say like, They are wiser than you think. Like when you ask them a question, what comes out of their mouth will completely surprise you. Like they have thought through a lot of the things you don't think they have.
So I even think at dinnertime with your whole family or even these bedtime things, even if you pick it up and just pick one question, it can start conversations where you'll see their heart and go, Man, they're really struggling with this or man, they really have a good grip on what... I mean, they can see right through it. Little girls are just stinking smart. They can see through all the stuff with friendships around the lunch table and they can see why it doesn't feel good.
And they can even have moments where you could say like, Hey, we're in this area of friendship. [00:28:48] Do you think you could be a better friend? So it's not just all the other kids, you know, hurting me. It's like, where could I say, Oh, I could be a better encourager. Oh, I could include people more often.
And so I think it kind of takes the... you know, when they're in trouble, we sit them down and tell them, here's the five things you did wrong and they're not learning because they're just embarrassed. And so I think these non-threatening moments with our daughters really help them open up in a way that we can affirm who they are, step into some hurts, and pray about it together. I just love it.
I didn't always do it well. I have to keep saying that. Like my kids would say, yeah, she hadn't put us to bed in a couple of years. But lately I've been going up there and scratching the racks again and not trying to miss those opportunities.
Laura Dugger: Well, I think that's incredibly helpful to zoom in even on a particular resource and get those practical applications. But then as we zoom out further, how can we disciple our children to be a friend of God?
Courtney DeFeo: I think... I don't know if I've done this well myself, but I do know that there's nothing more heartbreaking than when your daughter feels alone, or your son. It's hurt. [00:29:55] And it was like that mama bear comes out. There's things that you cannot control and they just are hurt.
I think in those moments, it's like teaching them that you feel so alone and it's not true. You have a family that loves you. You have a million friends, but they feel really alone sometimes and just saying like, you will actually never be alone. Like there is a someone that lives inside of you that knows your every thought. And just reminding them of that truth.
Now one lady at Orange told me this story and I just loved it. She said her daughter got in the car one day from the lunchroom and the lunchroom was just the worst. I mean, it's so painful. So she gets in the car, "No one sat with me at lunch." She's crying. And she said, "I went into this sermon about how God loves you and you're never alone." And she said, "I know all that. What do I do about the lunchroom?"
And so I was like, Man, that is it right there. Like we don't stop telling him the truth that they are never alone and God is with them. But there's some very real tween and teen things that they're like, "But what about this?" I think we have to engage in both, try to help them solve it practically, but never stop reminding them that they truly aren't alone. [00:30:55]
We use music a lot. I've noticed my girls, like when I don't know what to say, I'll just put on praise music and we'll just kind of sit in that, in the car. Or I've noticed Ella always turns it on when she's showering, when they're cleaning the room. And that is just truth that is just going in their hearts over and over again. It kind of helps them.
I've noticed it helps both of mine reset in a way. Like if I've told them to clean the room again, they're mad at me. Like don't just stomp around the room, put on some praise music and you'll all of a sudden have a different environment up there. So, yeah, I think just keeping to remind them, putting them around people that would remind them that Jesus is with them and sees them.
And then you can specifically pray. I don't think the Holy Spirit is something that's like 18 and up. I believe once they've invited God into their heart, the Holy Spirit can speak to them. And so pray that they'll recognize His voice and that they will feel really seen personally by Him so they're not always drafting off our faith, they're having their own experience. [00:31:51]
And they may be not mature enough to say like, Mom, God put this first in front of my head, but they're having those experiences. And just pray that God really almost repeats Himself so that they go, wow, God did see me in that. Or He did send the person to text me, or He did send data when I needed somebody or that kind of thing. I'm making it sound easier than it is, but I think it's a huge pillar of their faith to know that they are never alone and there's someone that personally can hold the entire world in His hands. And He can also know that, you know, Larson may be struggling with fear or whatever the personal thing is.
Laura Dugger: Well, and when you're speaking this, it reminds me of this scripture I came across. I remember it meant something different when I became a mom. It's in Ephesians 5. It's parts of 18 through 20. It says, "But be filled with the Holy Spirit and constantly guided by Him. Speak to one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, offering praise by singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord. [00:32:51] Always giving thanks to God the Father for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ."
And I think you just illustrated that is such a great way. To disciple is even pointing them to praise music. It seems too good to be true.
Courtney DeFeo: They get in the car and say, "Mom, you won't believe this" and just say like, I don't know for sure, but that may have been God. Just like, you know, if they say something like, this is crazy this happened, to say, it might not have been coincidence. It might've been God trying to send you. And kind of getting their eyes used to looking for that.
I'll tell you this story that I just shared in the message this weekend. And it just blew me away. It's one of the most surreal encounters I've had with the Lord. And I tell my girls about this, and I'm like, "You're lucky. It's not just for me. He can do this stuff."
But it was on my birthday a couple of years ago. We've been here in Texas about seven years, but I just get homesick around my birthday. I'm like, "I want to be with my mom. I want to go see my sister." And so I get a little pouty every year. And I was sitting here feeling particularly frumpy because it was COVID. I'd gained some weight and I'm like, "Ooh. Like I'm going to for real pity party. [00:33:51]
I remember Sarah Haggerty, a friend of mine said, "You can just ask God, what do you think of me? And then write down whatever He says." And He's never spoken audibly to me, but He will put things in my heart. And I'm like, "Was that my heartburn? Did I just make that up?" I just heard Him say, not audibly, lovely. "You are lovely."
And that would have been quite the opposite of what I was feeling. I was believing some lies from the enemy that morning. And I just was on my porch and just said, "Lord, what do you think of me?" Which I think is such a great question our girls can ask to make sure they're hearing truth and not the enemy, just lying to them.
Fast forward about an hour or so, my friend neighbor texted me and said, "Hey, I put a little something on your porch for your birthday." And I was like, "Oh, someone remembered." And I go out there and there's... I don't even remember what she gave me. It could have been earrings, dish towel. But on the front was a card and I opened it and it said, "You are lovely." I mean, what? It was literally God's like, "I'm telling you, I'm trying to tell you you're lovely."
And I called Ashley crying, I said, "What? Oh my gosh." [00:34:50] And she said, "The crazy thing is I prayed that morning for God to use me in little ways, just to remind my friends how much God loves them. And I went to find your birthday card and I've had this card forever. And it's like it just jumped out of the box that it was for you. So I just put it on your porch."
I tell my girls that because it's like we all need that. We all need the Holy Spirit to enter into our day and say like, I see you and you are not a failure. You are not ugly. You are not just average or blah. Like I'm trying to think all the things they say. But you are lovely. So I have clung onto that.
And try to remember that that is available. Like you said, in Ephesians, it's available to us. We just need to be listening and pray that God will show Himself to our kids. Because it's possible.
Laura Dugger: Yeah. Your story brings tears to my eyes.
Courtney DeFeo: Isn't it really cool?
Laura Dugger: There's scripture that says He delights in every detail of our lives. That is beautiful.
Courtney DeFeo: It is so cool. So I say all of us ask today and don't feel afraid if it's like, well, I heard busy. Well, that's probably not Him. If it's convicting, that's okay. If it's condemning and telling you you're awful, it's not His voice. [00:35:58] And so I just say, Lord... just ask it over and over again, because I think that's not selfish. I think we just need to be reminded and kind of get this voices out.
And our kids have a very loud internal voice. And we need to teach them how to not just believe what Satan is spinning in their head or what their friends said. We can believe what friends say. And their friends get a really loud voice in their mind and their heads in middle school particularly. We just need to keep training them how to just deflect that in some way of like, that is not who you are. Maybe you had a bad day, maybe you were angry, but you are not a bad person. And just keep retraining and redirecting. Can I just say? This is so hard.
Like people that are acting like it's easy, it's not easy. Like it is hard to be intentional. And that's why I think we... I don't know how people do it without Jesus. Because you have four girls. I'm already exhausted with two. Like it will take the power of the Holy Spirit to parent these kids. And you won't get to the full list is what I'm realizing. [00:36:58] I have this mental checklist of all the things I need to teach them before they graduate and my husband's like, "It's not possible. It's not even possible to get to all the things like teach them how to change a flat tire, make sure they floss. All the practical and emotional things. You need the Lord for sure.
Laura Dugger: Who is someone you love who could use encouragement today? With that person in mind, will you think back to all The Savvy Sauce podcasts and articles available and choose one to share with them right now? Or if you want to love and encourage our team, we invite you to join Patreon. You can put your love of The Savvy Sauce into action by visiting TheSavvySauce.com, clicking on the Patreon tab, then following the prompts under "join Patreon here". We can't wait for you to have access to all the bonus features that we offer our patrons. Thanks for your support.
Courtney, I consider you to be a queen of resources. What are the other books and podcasts and resources that you turn to for parenting? [00:38:02]
Courtney DeFeo: I have a lot of friends in this space. So I will say on books, top of the list that just came to my mind, so I guess I should share in case the Lord wants to give this to somebody. Jeannie Cunnion is a dear friend of mine. We went to Auburn. But she has several books. Parenting the Wholehearted Child is a great one. Her first one. And then she's got a couple since then that some is about your child's faith.
And Don't Miss Out is basically what we've been talking about. Like don't miss out on the power of the Holy Spirit for you as a mom, but then also for your kids. So any of her books I would highly recommend have been great.
Then one just came to my mind this morning that has been a long time, but it's a part of Orange, but Kara Powell is a doctor and she wrote a book called Sticky Faith. This really piqued my interest because there is a huge percentage of kids that will walk away from their faith in the college years. They just get out of their parents' dictatorship and they're like, Well, now I'm going to do whatever I want.
She's a researcher. So she did research on what are the kids that stayed in their faith and didn't do it perfectly, but stayed connected to their faith, what were the common denominators? [00:39:04] I love data. I'm like, okay. And it's a short list. I remember not being condemned or overwhelmed going like, okay, I can do this. I can stay at these things. And just pray for them that they will stay around. So that one's a good one.
Then on podcast I love Heather McFadden. She has one called Don't Mom Alone. She is so, so grounded in the Lord. I love the way she interviews. There's hundreds of them. She's been doing it for years and years. So probably like 300 episodes. And they're real topical. So you can scroll through and find whatever the thing is that you're struggling with and you can pretty much find one.
I think her website even has a search engine where you could say like, you know, screaming toddlers or a marriage on the rocks while you're parenting. You can search some things on her site and they'll help. But I do like just her heart and knowing how she's going to reframe. Just like you're doing. We can talk all day about kids' behavior but are we rooting that conversation in Jesus? And she does that really well.
The next one podcast is called Birds on a Wire. Karen Stubbs. I love her. [00:40:05] I just wrote the forward for her new book. That's Survival Guide to Motherhood. And she has a great podcast similar to Heather's. It's called Birds on a Wire. And you can search also by topic.
I remember one time I was going in to have a confrontation with a couple middle school moms that our three daughters got in trouble and I really felt like I was supposed to kind of call us all out and circle the wagons on these girls. I just was about 10 minutes early and I pulled that up because I was like, "Lord, I need you, but I don't know how to phrase this in a way that won't offend these two moms." And she had a thing that was like approaching other parents when it's tricky or something like that. I just scrolled through and it left off the screen and I listened to it. And it was just like having a mentor right beside me.
Karen's been a mentor a long time, but I can't have coffee with her. She's in Atlanta, I'm here. If you don't have a mentor in your life, which I highly recommend, she's a virtual mentor. She's got grown kids. She's been through it all. She's super real. She's in touch with actually what's hard. And she's awesome. [00:41:09]
Laura Dugger: That is such a great list. I'll link to a few previous episodes. Karen has been a repeat guest and Jeannie came on to talk about the Holy Spirit and her book Don't Miss Out. So I second your opinions on all of those ladies that you recommend.
Courtney DeFeo: Oh. Good. Good. Good. Awesome.
Laura Dugger: And now just for fun, what are some of your favorite relationship-building activities to do with your daughters?
Courtney DeFeo: I think there's a lot. Like I said, I teeter on obsession with them. So I really love... and I will say in the teen years, don't believe the lie that's awful. I just think what you're... it's almost like what you're looking for. And I don't want to use that whole word manifest, but it's like God says we can set our minds on things. Like if you set your mind that you're going to enjoy your kids in the teen years, it is hard. Like it's emotionally... the technology is so hard to manage. It is emotionally hard.
But I wouldn't look back at someone in a two-year-old three-year-old phase and be like, "Oh, just get over it." It's physically draining. [00:42:09] Like having to stay awake and get these threads physically through this stuff is super draining. Just don't put the entire basket of teenage years is hard when it's real... look for the good. Like they're fun people. They're becoming their own humans. Their friends are hilarious. So I've tried to engage, but also I've told them upfront, like I will not be your best friend. I will be your friend, but I'm at the end of the day is my job to parent you, and you're not going to like some things. And I'm typically the disciplinarian. So they've been mad at me more than Ron, but there's some fun moments.
So a couple of those are we to travel together. And even if it's a day road trip or... we've gone some pretty cool places because of the airline perks. But we love seeing new places and try new restaurants. Obviously, with girls, they like all the things. My girls are super girly. So they like nails shopping, thrifting, coffee, all those little things.
Thrifting is one I didn't do growing up, but you can give them a budget of $10 or $20 and take them to a thrift store and they can find some really cool finds. So that's a less expensive one than going to like Lululemon or Anthropologie. Giving them some budgets like that. [00:43:14]
Ella loves music. She sings and does choir. But she got on a Harry Styles kick. And I'm not endorsing Harry Styles as a human being, but his music is fun. We've been to two concerts together and we've gotten some flack from some other Christians that are like, "Oooh." You know, just saying that he's not the best influence. But I know her heart. She's grounded in Jesus but she loves a good song. We had more fun at those concerts. Like I was squealing like a teenager, you know? It was so fun. Those have been fun for us.
Larson is my crafty girl. So any sort of get her hands in something, make something, paint something. So I've tried to make time for that with her. Or just supply it. You know, like say you're not... she's 13, but she will still get into some slime and she loves to make a mess. So when her friends come over, I have to bite my tongue and not say, Gross, I don't want any more slime and just let them be crappy. Sometimes I'll get involved with that.
The other one that I would highly recommend, and I'm a little biased because I'm on the board, but Lighthouse Family Retreat is a place where you can serve families with cancer. [00:44:20] And we do that about every other year. I'm telling you, it doesn't even matter if it's a mission trip locally, you know, internationally, or even in your own town. Like showing them what it feels like to use their gifts and just their presence for other people as a great way to spend time together. And you'll see the best of your kids come out.
I love who my family is at Lighthouse. It's like all the needs and the whininess is gone. And they're just zoning in on this family that's had a child walking through cancer, their siblings have been destroyed by it, the marriages are almost destroyed. And we get to basically help them have a great beach vacation. I've never seen my kids do laundry like this or clean up. I'm like, I didn't know you had these skills. And they are making sure this family has their floors swept and their food, the whole babies. It's really a powerful thing to watch. If you ask them, that would probably be top of their list of things they love together as a family.
Laura Dugger: Wow. What a creative and meaningful idea. You're just a fresh spring of ideas. [00:45:20] If we want to dive deeper into any of these topics that we covered today, where would you direct us after this conversation?
Courtney DeFeo: You can search my name and podcasts. I've done a lot of podcasts, but I did have one for a season called Treasured. And that has about a hundred episodes that I still fully support. I just got tired during COVID. I had a lot of migraines and some new diagnosis there, and I just took a break. And I haven't gone back yet. So you're one of the first podcasts I've done in a long time.
But I would say Treasured podcast probably has a lot about raising girls. That's probably it. And I'm on Instagram every now and then, but I'm not really consistently putting out content. But I try to use it as a place when God puts something on my heart, I'll try to specifically encourage people with whatever that thought is. So check me out there.
But just know like this all sounds good, but my kids are at an age where I can't throw them under the bus too often. It's their life. And so what you can see from people like me is like, Oh man, their life is perfect. [00:46:19] You know, we've had some rough goes and I just can't talk about it all the time. So just know you're normal. Don't give up. Keep being intentional. Every day is new. One foot in front of the other. And just really get good at apologizing. Because I do that more than anything. I'm like, "Guys, I was not nice yesterday. I am so sorry." If you interviewed my girls, they would be able to tell you a full load of things that have not gone well here. But I'm just an imperfect mom trying to follow Jesus and, and really steward these kids that I only have for just a little season.
Laura Dugger: Well, I think your transparency is very relatable. You may remember from last time we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, Courtney, what is your savvy sauce?
Courtney DeFeo: I do think because of the mom that I had and because of a certain wiring of mine, I love being a cheerleader and specifically for my kids and encouraging them very specifically. [00:47:20] Like I said, if someone had just called me on my birthday and said, you're so great, that would have been awesome. But because they were specific and followed the Lord's prompting, it hit so deep. I just think encouragement is biblical. Like He tells us to spur one another on in Hebrews and encourage them to encourage one another daily as long as it's called today.
I think it's not to say you can't discipline your kids, but they need reminders all the time that they're good, that they're kind, that they're worthy of being a great friend. And so just pray that God can peek into their hearts and see specifically where they're struggling. And you can call out whether it's physically like, Hey, I love your... you look so cute in those pants. Or Hey, I love the sister that you are. Like I see you Ella and how you protect her.
I mean, I wrote something on this recently on Instagram about their relationship. And it was a prayer that I had early on that they would be sisters that loved each other. And they have fought and it's unnerved me because I don't like... I want them to get along so bad. But watching their relationship develop over the years has been really sweet. And so I try to encourage that specifically and say, you know, Lars, I love how you gave her and her friends space. I was a little sister, I know what it's like to knock on the door and want to be included. [00:48:33]
So just really try to call out the things that they're doing well and not just nitpick all the things, which I am a nitpicker. I have to catch myself all the time and be like, all they've heard today is pick up your clothes. Oh my gosh. Why do you leave trash there? That tone is rude. There's time for direction, but I would say the majority of your mouth needs to be lifting them up and not inflating.
Like you don't want them to go on American Idol and have no voice and be like, my mom told me I was a great singer. You don't want to be projecting lies, but it's like you want them to feel seen and that they're good enough in your home. Because I do think in the Christian culture, this was convicted to me a few years ago, that they can feel like they have to earn their love. Like they have to be good enough to be loved by us and they have to be good enough to be loved by Jesus. And that is just false. And so anything we can do to counteract that. And I think encouragement is a huge piece of it.
You know, Ella texted me today about a GPA and a ranking, and I said, "Ella, this is not your identity. [00:49:32] I want you to try your best, but at the end of your life, you are not going to look back and be like, I'm so glad I was 12th percentile in my class. Like, who cares? You know what I mean? So just constantly redirecting them that they are enough. And it's tricky. It's tricky because I do see the trash on the floor and the gum on the side of the car seat and all the stuff.
That's the quick answer to savvy sauce. I would say knowing your kid, cheering them on, and having a heart of encouragement for them.
Laura Dugger: I love it. Courtney, you are always lovely and fun and uplifting. I really did enjoy hosting you. Thanks for being my returning guest today.
Courtney DeFeo: Thank you. Keep up the good work. I know so many moms are clinging to this when maybe they have a lonely season and they need a friend. So you're being a friend to so many. And it's going further and wider than you probably even know. So keep up the good work.
Laura Dugger: Goodness. Thank you for the encouragement.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? [00:50:33] It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:51:34]
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:52:35]
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. [00:53:34]
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Feb 20, 2023
Monday Feb 20, 2023
Special Patreon Re-Release: Answering Common Financial Questions with Certified Financial Planner and Speaker, Natalie Taylor
Proverbs 13: 11 (NIV) “Dishonest money dwindles away, but he who gathers money little by little makes it grow.”
Matthew 6:19-21 (NIV) “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”
Natalie Taylor is a Certified Financial Planner, Professional and Behavioral Financial Advisor who is passionate about helping people cultivate a plan for their finances based on their values and goals so they can not only make progress, but find confidence, balance, and peace along the way. Frequently quoted in major publications such as the Huffington Post, Forbes, Business Insider and Lifehacker, Natalie draws on many years of comprehensive financial planning experience and a decade of professional speaking to share advice that works in real life, not just on paper.
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”