The Savvy Sauce

210 School Series: Benefits of Private High School with Luke Baker

210. School Series: Benefits of Private High School with Luke Baker

 

Proverbs 9:9 (NIV) "Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still; teach the righteous and they will add to their learning."

 

**Transcription Below**

 

Questions and Topics We Cover:

1. In your private school setting, what is something unique you get to teach?

2. What sets apart private high school from other schooling options?

3. For parents deciding which school option is best for their family situation, what are a few of your favorite reasons to recommend they choose private high school?

 

Luke Baker is an Adjunct Professor at Bradley, Illinois Central College, and Social Studies Teacher at Peoria Christian School in Central Illinois. He is a veteran teacher, world traveler, active club sponsor, and passionate scholar of history.

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription**

 

[00:00:00] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

 

[00:00:17] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Thank you to an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank who paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Learn more about this amazing nonprofit organization at MidwestFoodBank.org. 

 

We are continuing our school series to learn from teachers in various schooling options, including private, public, and homeschool. If you missed the kickoff yesterday, I hope you also go back to tune in and hear from Brianna Haworth. 

 

Today, we get to learn from private high school teacher Luke Baker. On a more personal note, Luke is married to my sister, so he's been our brother-in-law for almost 20 years. He is a reputable teacher in our area, and I hope his perspective continues to challenge us to be thoughtful as we continue to ponder which option may be best for our family at this time. [00:01:19] 

 

Here's our chat.

 

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Luke.

 

Luke Baker: Thank you, Laura.

 

Laura Dugger: So glad to have you with us today. Can you just start us off by sharing your personal testimony?

 

Luke Baker: Yeah. I grew up in central Illinois. I had, I think, a pretty typical small town near a small city upbringing. My family was really involved in our local schools. My mom, especially, was really involved in our local church. Grew up with an Anabaptist education and kind of had the central, Midwest, small-town worldview in many good and bad ways that comes with all that. 

 

And then I very deliberately wanted to wait to come to the Lord. I'm not sure if that was the right thing to do, but that was maybe some of Satan's way of keeping me back from a redeemed life. [00:02:19] But a little ahead of schedule, I came to Christ in college and really was surrounded by a very good group of young believers. 

 

But I kind of had a shift in my belief system when I got to travel overseas, do some stuff in the Middle East as part of a very secular college outreach group. But as a young believer, obviously being in places like Jerusalem and Nazareth really spoke to me. Clearly coming to the Lord was the biggest change in my life. But I would say that trip to Israel and getting married were the other two. And it kind of steered my worldview in slightly different directions than maybe my upbringing would have been. 

 

I went into education. I started out as an engineering major. After differential equations, I thought maybe teaching history was a better idea for me. I've been in public school and now teach in private schools. 

 

I have three kids, and it's been very interesting from top down, you know, sitting at high school and teaching as an adjunct in some colleges, to watch my kids come up towards me in age, towards the age group I work with. [00:03:31] 

 

I've been blessed to teach at a very good college prep school in Peoria, Illinois, that I'm pretty passionate about. It's been a good ride with the Lord. I really, every year, feel very blessed and very confident that either through the people He surrounded me with or through His own grace directly, God will provide.

 

Laura Dugger: And you are extremely intelligent and a very gifted teacher. And it's neat to see how the Lord took that interest in history and how you get to use that professionally now. So, Luke, in your private school setting, what is something unique that you have the opportunity to teach?

 

Luke Baker: One of my favorite things we do pretty much every year... we call it mini-term. Some schools call it spring extension or spring break at school. But we spend a full week teaching non-traditional classes. [00:04:33] So some teachers will take a group of students hiking for a week. One year I taught football because we don't have football at our school. We're kind of a soccer, baseball, basketball, volleyball type school.

 

The past few years, I've been able to use computer games to teach kind of a space exploration, logistics, economics. It's this clever little program that lets kids really kind of simulate what a future economy might be like. They're essentially playing space truckers and delivering goods from point A to point B, but they get a real kick out of it. 

 

We learn a little science, a little math, a lot of economics and a lot of kind of resource management, stuff that I don't think kids usually get very excited about. But when all of a sudden you put it in space and it's a computer game, they really enjoy it. So I get to scratch that engineering side a little bit, even though I'm a history teacher.

 

Then after school, one day a week, we have a board game club, which I really enjoy. [00:05:36] And it's an attempt to get kids to unplug. Instead of sitting in their basement on a computer or on their phones, they're sitting across from somebody playing a game. They're pretty complex little games. They scratch a lot of the same itches that those less social, very intelligent kids kind of need. But it does it in a way where they get to work on people skills. So those two things I think I really enjoyed.

 

Laura Dugger: I love the freedom that you're talking about in those many terms. And I'm just curious, is that typically a highlight for the students?

 

Luke Baker: I hope so. Usually, they fill up pretty fast and I get quite a few repeat customers. I mean, some students would just rather do school. But especially juniors and sophomores, because they're kind of seniors, they can have some internship opportunities and stuff during that week that they really do well. [00:06:34] Or go on mission trips, which is why it exists. It gives extra time next to spring break for mission trips to happen without leaving so much school undone. But it's really fun for the rest of us. 

 

You really get to connect with your students in a really different way. I really don't know how it works for me, because it's kind of hard to see yourself. But I can totally see teachers and students that either would never interact with each other because schedules and interests and subjects don't align, or they're interacting with a teacher that they've had for some core subject and now they're both doing woodworking or they're both doing cooking. It's an extra connection in their interest that normally they wouldn't have. And it's a lot of fun to see that happen.

 

Laura Dugger: That sounds like a lot of fun. I'm also curious, just as we're looking at this series and parents and students may be listening in as they're considering private or public or homeschooling or other options, what would you say sets apart private high school from the other schooling options? [00:07:42] 

 

Luke Baker: That's a very good question. That's a loaded one. I would like to start by saying I have seen and interacted with homeschoolers and kids who've gone all the way through public school that have done really, really well, have been in an incredible place with their spiritual walk, and they just knocked it out of the park. 

 

So I'm going to have a hard time not sounding like I'm trying to sell my option as better than the others. But I'm just talking about like when things go wrong or when things go right, this is the differences I see. Because we do get a fair amount of public school kids that come in freshman year. We do get a fair amount of kids that are transitioning from homeschool to high school because, you know, mom and dad don't want to do AP bio or chemistry in the house. Or, you know, they're not qualified to teach a college credit class. So I feel like I have a pretty eyes wide open cross-section of everything. [00:08:43] I went to public school the whole way through in the area. 

 

But to me, like if you're looking at homeschool, whatever people ask, kind of the analogy I use, my students make fun of me for using analogies way too much, is like being a YouTube contractor. Like you totally can build your own house by watching YouTube. And it could be a great house. And there'd be no problem with it. And people can do that. 

 

But for a lot of us, we get pretty lost in the woods really fast and we would be in trouble just because it can be done or it's good enough. It would be tricky to say that somebody doing it on their own using resources would ever do as well as a professional, that this is what they do, that they're certified. They're bringing in professional electricians, professional carpenters, HVAC people, people that do siting and gutters. We all know in our circles, people that this is their entire professional career. [00:09:41] 

 

If you're homeschooling, you're kind of taking all that on and you're not a professional. That's what makes it really tricky. Again, I have a good friend who built his own house, sold it, and it's remarkable. You know, there are people that do that and do it really, really well. Even my analogy, I think, holds well that it can be done and the right people know, yeah, I can do this. 

 

But especially with COVID, we saw a lot of people experiment with homeschooling and it went really wrong really fast for some of them.

 

Laura Dugger: That's super helpful to hear the comparison from your professional standpoint. Is there any other advantage that you see specifically that private school offers beyond the professional certified teachers?

 

Luke Baker: Yeah, the classroom environment... and homeschools have done good with having co-ops and all that. And I've seen some students really excel in that. But I coach Scholastic Bowl and Scholastic Bowl tends to get a lot of kids who don't do team sports, don't understand a team attitude and they struggle. [00:10:48] You know, this is their first time doing any sort of organized, competitive, anything. 

 

I've coached football and tennis and other things as a varsity high school coach before and the contrast gets really obvious really quick. The idea of existing in kind of a shared space where others get, I mean, everyone gets to have the spotlight. Everybody gets to ask questions. I mean, that's for most people where their professional goal is going to end up too.

 

The homeschool students can really, really struggle with that. And it can really kind of throw them off. One of the things I often tell parents is your kids are not the same kids when they're not around you. I mean, they just aren't. I had experience with my middle child. There was a stage when she was younger where she was our discipline challenge. She really was at home. Every single teacher for those like two or three years in elementary school, they would just go on and on about how kind and quiet and helpful and just tenderhearted she was. [00:11:56] I was sure we had got the wrong teacher conference. How could this be this kid who's just, you know, hitting the fences nonstop? 

 

Everybody has different ways to behave in different environments. One of my cautions with homeschool parents is those other sides of your kid don't get cultivated when they're not around other people and other authority figures. There's a dynamic that can really get lost in any time, K through 12, a developmental stage that, I don't know, that I think is pretty vital. Because, I mean, we all know when we grew up, we were different around our bosses, different around our grandparents than we were around our parents. You just got to be careful that you don't get too small of a circle.

 

I think parents often think, especially the older grades, like middle school and high school, that school's about content. And homeschoolers knock out the content like nobody's business. Homeschool kid shows up, they will be well-read, they'll be well-versed. 

 

I teach a Bradley class on education when I taught last year, a class on education to kids who are going the next year to become teachers in high schools. [00:13:06] And I really had to hammer into them, your content is just a vehicle for skills that students need. I think it's very easy for a homeschool parent to hit the wrong target. That you're so worried about getting the math and the science, what you don't understand is a professional who's doing it right. And I'm not saying they all do. We're really teaching skills like how to defend a topic, how to analyze information, and see the bias in a source.

 

I mean, I always tell my parents at PCS, the school that I teach at, if they learn the skills and they hate history, I would take that over the flip, over them learning all the history, which I really am very passionate about. I love history. But there's all these skills we're cultivating, that's the targets we're really caring about. Whether it's English, math, or history. 

 

When I taught math, students would always be like, "When am I going to use this?" [00:14:08] And I'm like, you probably won't. You will never have to figure out a parabola for 90% of you. That's not why we do this. We're doing it, can you take rules? Can you take procedures? Can you apply them? Can you articulate what you've done? Can you then see other times when those rules do or don't apply? That's vital to every life path you might be on. Math is just a vehicle for teaching that. 

 

And it's very hard, I think, for an amateur educator or a student reading on their own to get all that. Again, some do, many do. But that's a challenge, I think, in homeschool.

 

Laura Dugger: That's a great perspective. Luke, what positive impact do you see private high school making in the lives of your students and of the community?

 

Luke Baker: Community, I think, is unique for... I mean, especially my private school, we draw from like 12 different school districts. I think we draw from 130 different churches. I am at a private school where parents have to sign off on a statement of faith. We have to have at least the parents saying that, you know, they support a Christian worldview. [00:15:20] 

 

So our community is that. It's like a central Illinois community. It's really neat to me, and especially with my own kids, my oldest daughter is a freshman, that they have this area-wide community of Christians from different backgrounds, different family heritage, different cultures. But they all share Christ, and they all share the school experience together. 

 

And all the time, that grows, right? You know, they'll run into somebody who knows somebody. It's really neat to see how well that has worked, that they all get to interact with each other. 

 

There's also an accountability to that. I remember we had a kid years ago transferring. It was a Caterpillar family, which is a big company around here that's constantly moving families in and out. And the kid said, "Mr. Baker, this really stinks. I can't go anywhere without running into someone from PCS or somebody that knows me from PCS." [00:16:20] It's like everyone's watching me all the time. And I said, "Yeah, isn't that neat?" And he's like, "No, no, that's not neat at all." 

 

But I like that, like this idea that iron is always sharpening iron, kind of in our extended PCS, you know, private Christian school community. I think accountability is something we've lost as a culture and, you know, an area of private school can kind of help wrestle that back a little bit.

 

Laura Dugger: Yeah, accountability is the word that came to my mind as well. And I'm thinking even for those families who are moving in, that's exciting to be a part of a larger community and hopefully feel more connected and make it feel more like home. So I'm with you. I see that as a benefit. 

 

Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor. 

 

[00:17:05] <music>

 

Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank exists to provide industry-leading food relief to those in need while feeding them spiritually. They are a food charity with a desire to demonstrate God's love by providing help to those in need. Unlike other parts of the world where there's not enough food, in America, the resources actually do exist. That's why food pantries and food banks like Midwest Food Bank are so important.

 

The goods that they deliver to their agency partners help to supplement the food supply for families and individuals across our country, aiding those whose resources are beyond stretched. Midwest Food Bank also supports people globally through their locations in Haiti and East Africa, which are some of the areas hardest hit by hunger arising from poverty. 

 

This ministry reaches millions of people every year, and thanks to the Lord's provision, 99% of every donation goes directly toward providing food to people in need. The remaining 1% of income is used for fundraising, cost of leadership, oversight, and other administrative expenses. Donations, volunteers, and prayers are always appreciated for Midwest Food Bank. 

 

To learn more, visit MidwestFoodBank.org or listen to Episode 83 of The Savvy Sauce, where the founder, David Kieser, shares miracles of God that he's witnessed through this nonprofit organization. I hope you check them out today. 

 

[00:18:34] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Do you have any systems or goals in your own classroom that you've seen have proven over time to be most beneficial?

 

Luke Baker: Yeah. One of the things I really try to grow in the students after their freshman year. Freshman year, they're trying to do school, they're trying to... I mean, about 30% of our kids did not come from our eighth grade, so they're having to think critically now instead of a little bit more rote memorization, all that.

 

But as they get older, the idea of questioning appropriately things you're told, things you're taught, things you read, whether that's a teacher saying, "Here's how I think something is," whether it's a social media news article that you ran across on Facebook or whatever, whether it's a YouTube video or a news outlet, to have an appropriately critical mind to where you're trust but verify, prove all things, kind of that mentality. [00:19:41] And how to do that right and how not to be, you know, abrasive or rude or to the other extreme, you know, naive and over trusting that there's a balance there that I think is tough for all of us.

 

But then with a safety net, we can kind of do that at a private Christian school and really talk about things from a Christian worldview too. You know, just like the Bible answers this, you know, how do you find this in the Bible? How do you understand how to use the Word and how to make that a living daily decision tool, referring to the Word and leading with your church community and listening to the Spirit?  It's a lot of fun when it clicks. 

 

I would say for a lot of our seniors, we get to see that moment when they're kind of up and running and they're doing them really, really well. Some of them you find out two or three years down the road, you know, you got to wait a little bit for that seed to bear fruit. But I really enjoy that. That's fun to see. 

 

And I will say our kids are really good at coming back and telling us their stories after they're gone because they're excited. [00:20:42] You know, they want to come back and tell their Christian community that they finally got it, you know?

 

Laura Dugger: Wow, that's encouraging. Is that something you would say you're even using daily? Is it more organic that you're opening the Bible with them, or is that part of your curriculum?

 

Luke Baker: I would love to say it's daily. I would say they take me on my word a little bit sometimes. But we have Bible classes that they take every day, just like a regular class. Often they'll come kind of locked and loaded with the Scripture. And it's fun to see how the Spirit kind of orchestrates it all. I cannot say how many times... I mean, probably 50 times in a school year, if not more. They're coming straight from, or yesterday they just covered a Scripture or in chapel, because we all do chapel together once a week. You know, the topic came up, or this story was told, or the verse was read, or this Bible lesson was taught that immediately links into exactly what I wanted to talk about and gives them the Scripture kind of like mentally in hand that I would have wanted to reference to. And it really feels good to see how well that all works.

 

And it has nothing to do with... you know, I didn't know that was going to happen. I would love to say I know all my fellow teacher schedules and knew that this was coming. But it is very much just the moving of the Spirit through our curriculum. [00:22:05] 

 

I think after a couple of years there, almost all the teachers, you know, you learn to just be ready for it. It's a lot of fun. It also saves a lot of teaching time when they're already kind of ready with the stuff you were kind of hoping they'd get. And then you can do next-level stuff or have a little bit deeper conversation because we're all on our staff kind of building off of each other back and forth.

 

Laura Dugger: That is so exciting. I love moments like that when truly the credit can only go to the Spirit orchestrating those events and that timing. Luke, what do you see as the most important thing for students to learn or master by the time they leave high school?

 

Luke Baker: To really know yourself. To know here's the gifts God gave me, here's where my strengths are, here's my weaknesses, here's the things I need to have a mentor for, here's the things maybe I could be a mentor to younger believers on. [00:23:11] You know, just to have... I mean, I know I struggle with knowing yourself, understanding how has God made me, where are my strengths and my weaknesses.

 

And not to maneuver away from your weaknesses, but to have support with the communities that God puts in our lives to take care of those. One of the stories I bring up quite a bit is the story of the talons where a young prince hands out, you know, sometimes it's told as money or chests of gold. And some of his subjects invested it and grew it and then were like, look what I have. But the sad part of the story in the parable is there was a servant who had buried it all. So nothing changed and then just gives it back to him.

 

There's a bit of a pun in the old English on what the word talent means there, but it kind of works that like don't bury your talents. God gave you these gifts. I think high school students so much want to already be like, I know I'm going to be a lawyer. I'm going to be an accountant. I know I'm going to be a fashion designer. [00:24:19] And I try to very gently pull out of them. They're like, you have other talents and other gifts. Don't put yourself on a rail yet. Invest in those. You're biblically called to take the things you were given and invest all of them in all the ways. Don't be the single-note person when God's given you the ability to play chords. 

 

Navigating that is the thing that... if I could pick one thing that students know, it's that they know how God's made them to be and are embracing that.

 

Laura Dugger: Wow. I love that so much. A lot of wisdom in there. What would you say is a helpful way parents can partner with you for the benefit of their children?

 

Luke Baker: That's a bit of a self-serving question. I think parents kind of grow up with their students. Again, having kids that were very young when I started teaching at the high school and watching them come up. [00:25:23] I think parents just kind of knowing that they're growing up alongside their students... I mean, I don't want to say immature because that's not what I mean. But like you kind of exist in the mind space of your child because you're thinking for them and with them.

 

I think so many parents really, really want to endorse and make their kids feel like everything they did was valid and right. And that's not really what we're called to do. I think when parents and teachers, both well-intending buttheads, that if they're doing everything right, that that's still a battleground. Especially with that oldest student coming through, I see it with freshman parents a lot, they want to validate everything their kid's done. 

 

That's not what God models for us as an authority figure. That He doesn't exist to say everything you've done is good no matter why you did it. He can make it good, but He's there to shepherd us, to guide us, to provide us things like the Bible and the Holy Spirit. [00:26:28] And I think parents so much want the win to be on their kid's team that they're forgetting where their place is on the team. 

 

They're trying to be a teammate and a cheerleader and supposed to be coaches. We're supposed to be having a big picture in mind, guiding the kids along. 

 

And you kind of should think of a teacher as an assistant coach. That we exist to help that goal of parenting and raising a kid, but everyone's got to kind of embrace their role. Assistant coach can't be a head coach, and a head coach can't be a player or a cheerleader. And it's tricky. It's hard with all the emotion. Every time I have a second or third board come through, parents have already got it. I mean, they're good at it. They learn really, really quick the do's and their don'ts. 

 

But if a parent and a teacher want to get along, I think parent is the head coach, but that's how we need it to be. And that's how it works best is when everyone's doing what they're supposed to do in that relationship.  [00:27:30] 

 

Laura Dugger: That's a helpful analogy.

 

Luke Baker: Then I think parents always want to hold cards really close to their chest about their students, whether that's allergies or learning disabilities or family problems. You should be at a place with your school where you can feel like you can share that stuff with your teachers and with other people that are around your kids. Because if you don't, it really does create a lot of problems for everyone.

 

I don't know how many times things have come up, even at Peoria Christian, but certainly when I was in public school too, and we just needed to know. As a young teacher, before I had kids of my own, I was always very like, Why would a parent not tell us? Why would they not give us everything we would need to know about their students so we could help them in class? 

 

Well, now as a parent, I know it's because you have to trust the person you're giving it to. And yeah, the schools I was at and some of the places I was in the past, I could see why a parent knowing everyone that was involved wouldn't want that information out there, wouldn't trust the proper handling of that, the sensitivity to it, the right way of approaching the kid, you know, tactfully and talking about it. [00:28:42] 

 

And when a parent or a student is thinking about, am I at the school or in the educational environment I should be in, if you can't trust the people who you're interacting with every day with really important information about you that either affects your education or your physical well-being, that's a good red flag on you're not maybe in the best teaching environment and learning environment. 

 

Of course, if you are in that environment, please share, because it's so much easier to handle things if you know they're there than to be guessing at it all the time.

 

Laura Dugger: For parents deciding which school option is best for their family situation, what are a few of your favorite reasons to recommend they choose private high school?

 

Luke Baker: Well, private high school, I mean, I'll talk about my school in particular, there are families that I deeply love and really enjoy their children. If they ask me, "Should we be coming to Peoria Christian? Why would we come to Peoria Christian?" I would honestly tell them probably not for you. [00:29:45] 

 

For example, private schools are usually very limited on things like vocational technology. We don't have a welding team. We don't have a shop class. We don't have a lot of those things. And very few Christian schools would have that. So that might be a reason to stay with a local public school. 

 

I would also look at your school board. There are certain communities in Central Illinois we just don't draw very heavily from. And I know why. It's because those schools are very well run. The teachers are as open about their faith as they can be. The board is very intentional and very parent-centered. So in so many ways, it's almost like a public Christian school. If you have that, maybe we're not for you.

 

Sometimes I make the analogy of someone looked at my 15-year-old SUV and said, "A Range Rover would be a much nicer vehicle. And here's why Range Rover is better." And everything they said would be perfectly true and 100% correct. [00:30:50] It just doesn't make sense for me to go out and buy a Range Rover, not because my car is better, but because it just that makes sense for where I am in life and my income and all that. I think a lot of that plays into it. 

 

On the flip side, we do pull some kids from very good schools where the student just really, really needed a reset, whether it's a year away or just to be able to start over without a reputation. Sometimes kids just don't ever click with a friend group as people change, you know, middle school and high school. I don't know if there was a big push in local churches to kind of reconsider giving your kid a reset, but I feel like we've had quite a few students last four or five years where that's kind of what their mentality was that they wanted to do over.

 

They wanted to be able to come and reset everything their freshman or sophomore year. And most of the time, I think that goal has been pretty well achieved. A good school can kind of be a two-edged sword sometimes if it's just not working for your students. [00:31:55] 

 

Laura Dugger: And what encouragement would you want to leave with any students or parents who are listening right now?

 

Luke Baker: I would encourage parents and students, especially if they are in public schools, to really think about what are the motivation of the authority figures in your life. I mean, I can tell you because I've taught in the education side of the college level. Young teachers, they very much want to change how your kid thinks, how your kid feels, what your kid's worldview is.

 

And to them, for all the noblest of reasons. I'm not a big fan of most of the major news outlets. But I know this whole idea of teachers trying to shape students has been pretty front and center. And, yeah, that's 100% true. And so then who are you sending your kids to be with? Or if you're the student, who are you sitting in front of? 

 

It's a tricky duality to say, I'm going to trust them to teach me math or science or English. But they know what they're talking about, the authorities. But then when they switch to how do I handle life's problems, how do I handle life decisions? How do I deal with these really important things? [00:33:14] I've got to know when to shut them off because they don't share my worldview, they don't believe the Bible, they're not looking through the same decision matrix that I want to.

 

And especially for, I think, middle school ages, but also at high school, that's really, really hard. How do you trust a person half the time while they're talking and then feel like I have to ignore them the other half? If you feel like that's what you're dealing with, if private school can work, we can kind of take that off the table, where not only are they having to not listen to a worldview or listen to kind of an indoctrination, but like we're in sync with what the student or the family wants to learn.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've had students ask me very tricky religious questions. And we break open the Bible and we read it and then I send an email to the Bible teacher and say, "Hey, so-and-so's really talking about this. If you have any insight, talk to them." It can become a running month-long conversation. It just happens alongside their schooling.[00:34:20] We're all helping them and we're all supporting them. If that's what is lacking in a public school experience, I think that's a good time to start thinking about private education.

 

Laura Dugger: That's a great perspective. It sounds like at your school, you all can kind of come around and support them as a team, support the student. That is such an invaluable gift as a young person to have so many trustworthy mentors. So I appreciate you sharing that. 

 

How did you find out about The Savvy Sauce? Did someone share this podcast with you? Hopefully, you've been blessed through the content. And now we would love to invite each of you to share these episodes with friends and help us spread the word about The Savvy Sauce. You can share today's episode or go back and choose any one of your other previous favorites to share. Thanks for helping us out. 

 

Luke, you already know that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or discernment. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce? [00:35:29] 

 

Luke Baker: Well, my savvy sauce, when my firstborn was growing up, we're a little bit older than most parents with kids our age, especially in the towns we live in. And so I had an opportunity to kind of watch for four or five, six years, whatever it was, all the people around me, whether it was family, church, co-workers, how they parented. And I decided that I was going to always answer any question my kids asked honestly and to the level I think it needed to be answered. But not to make up... I'm not picking on my father, but like, you know, if you don't eat your green beans, the police are going to come arrest you, you know. And sometimes silly, harmless stuff like that. But I just didn't like that. It did not appeal to me. 

 

So there have been many times I've told my kids, it's not really something we need to worry about now or it's not something we need to talk about. I think at least for my children, the idea of just always being honest with them and answering every question, which kids can ask a lot of questions and I get that. [00:36:43] But I mean, I'm a teacher. If I have a talent, it should be answering questions. And so I would just encourage parents, like it's so easy to fall into little truisms or clever little stories, but it has paid off really, really well.

 

Especially now that I'm into the teenage years, my daughters, because that's my oldest two are both girls, know that dad's always telling them exactly what he believes, what he knows to be true. And I'm not being flippant with my answers. I'll tell them I don't know if I don't know. There's no harmful filler information to try to avoid saying something creative. I just tell them the truth. 

 

And then anytime you can make something have an educational impact, don't force it, but do it. Sometimes I get eye rolls from my daughters and the growns. My youngest, Leo, is seven, so he's pretty much up for anything. [00:37:43] 

 

Like, for example, my middle school daughter had a friend over and we have a traveling section of the Vietnam War Memorial. It's called the Wall that Heals, coming through a local community. It was late at night. It was dark. They were still roaming around the house, not getting to sleep. It's like, hey, let's go check out the wall. I know they weren't super thrilled with the idea of seeing something that felt like it was a history thing, but I think it paid off well. 

 

Not always are my kids happy to go to a museum or read a historical marker, but if you moderate it appropriately... you know, I never get to spend as much time at a museum as I would love to. But you figure out to what degree can my kids handle this stuff and then maneuver it around. It has been really fun, especially with my oldest child, to watch her go through middle school, having been to places, known things, seen things, read about things. I mean, it's not just history stuff. We do science museums. She's actually a counselor this summer in a science camp that she attended when she was younger. [00:38:50] 

 

To be able to have actually done those things, know those things, have experience hands-on, not just through a YouTube video with all of her subjects. Sometimes she knows more than her teacher about a thing because she's done it, she's seen it, she's been there. And we still have fun vacations and we still hit the beaches and go to the amusement parks and all that. But it's okay to make even fun things a little educational.

 

Laura Dugger: I love that. Spoken from a true heart of a teacher. Luke, I just hear so many comments in the community about what a fantastic and impactful teacher you are. I love hearing from your students or their parents. So I just want to say thank you for caring well for your students. And thank you for being my guest today.

 

Luke Baker: I do want to say, you talk about reputation and you and Mark and the East Peoria Chick-fil-A, it is always so fun to interact and meet people that either work there, that just go there. The community at large, especially when they don't know that I have any connection at all, really does just love the restaurant. [00:39:58] Both with the students that work there from all the different schools, but also just the experience being there. 

 

I wish you could unknowingly hear all the things I've heard about your family in the store, because I'm very proud always to let people know about my connection with it, because it has such an incredibly good reputation both for the food, but also for the light and the Christian example it puts out there in a community that needs it.

 

Laura Dugger: Thank you, Luke. I'll pass that along. That's credit to Mark. I'll pass it along, but thank you. And likewise, it's the same exact feeling of pride when they share and "Well, Mr. Baker is actually our brother-in-law.

 

Luke Baker: My families are very kind at PCS. Well, it's been my pleasure. Thank you for thinking of me when you were doing this.

 

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. [00:40:59] But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

 

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

 

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. 

 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. [00:42:04] Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. 

 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. 

 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?

 

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. [00:43:09] Start by reading the book of John. 

 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. 

 

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.  [00:44:08] 

209 School Series: Benefits of Private Elementary School with Brianna Haworth

209. School Series: Benefits of Private Elementary School with Brianna Haworth

 

**Transcription Below**

 

2 Peter 3:18 (NKJV) "but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen."

 

Questions and Topics We Cover:

1. What positive impact do you see private school making in the lives of students and the community?

2. What systems have you put into place in your own classroom that have been most beneficial?

3. From your perspective, what are a few benefits of children attending private elementary school?

 

Other Episode Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce:

Miracles of God with Founder of Midwest Food Bank, David Kieser

 

Brianna Haworth is an Elementary School Teacher after graduating from Olivet Nazarene University in 2020. She taught in a public school for 2 years, and has now switched to teaching at Solid Rock Christian Academy, which she loves! She has been married for 2 years and she and her husband enjoy walking together, going on ice cream dates, and serving in the junior high ministry at their church. She was raised in a big Christian family and has been blessed to know the Lord since she was young. Brianna also loves music, nature, and working with kids!

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor: Leman Property Management Company

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription**

 

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

[00:00:17] <music>

Laura Dugger: Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at Lemanproperties.com or connect with them on Facebook. 

We are launching a series I've always dreamed of hosting. A series to challenge and equip us as parents to ponder which schooling option may be best for our children at this time. This month, we're going to learn from teachers in various schooling options, including private, public, and homeschool. 

Today, my guest is private elementary school teacher, Brianna Haworth. Brianna is going to share lessons and ideas that apply both to the classroom and to our homes.

Here's our chat. 

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Brianna.

Brianna Haworth: Good morning, thanks for having me. [00:01:18]

Laura Dugger: Well, I'd love to just start by having you share your personal testimony with us.

Brianna Haworth: Yeah. So I was raised in a loving Christian home in a really big family. We had nine people total. So my parents, and then I had six brothers and was the only girl. So we were definitely very active and stayed busy with all of the sports and activities.

We were part of the Apostolic Christian Church until I was about 8 years old. Then my parents actually helped launch Summit Point Church in East Peoria. And so that's where we still go now. 

But it was such a blessing to be raised by strong believers in a home where we prayed together and prioritized church events and talked about God in so many different ways. And so because of that environment, I really have held a Christian worldview for as long as I can remember. 

I first gave my life to Christ, though, when I was five years old and have been following Him ever since. But because of my large family size and some unkind friends in middle school, I often felt invisible growing up. [00:02:24] And my older brothers, I love them so much and they have such bright personalities that fill a room. But because of that, I never felt like I could quite measure up.

At school, I felt like I was always fighting for attention from others and not always invited into groups and friendships. So as a young person, that was just a very hard thing to experience often on every day. I really wanted to be seen as valuable, but I felt like no one really wanted me around.

Since I had a relationship with the Lord, I would come to Him with my hurt and my insecurities. And the beautiful thing was that He did see me. And even though I could never deserve His love, He freely gave it just so much of it.

Over time, he spoke to me more and more through scripture and worship songs and sermons and even people around me. He showed me how He loved and cared for me and taught me how to listen to His spirit and follow Him. God's love really changed my life and gave me the identity and belonging and purpose that I had been searching for in school. [00:03:26]

So for a young girl with a lot of hurt inside, questioning my worth and place in the world, it really made all the difference. Even into adulthood, God really continues to blow me away with His love and forgiveness and goodness. So, yeah, that's a big summary of my testimony. 

A lot of that plays into my decision to become a teacher, too. In my hurting, God had really given me a gift for seeing people that were often unseen in a room. The way He deeply loves and cares for each person really fills me with passion to share that love. So much of my testimony was forged through my years in school, and that's where I felt called to go and spread love. 

So I went to public school growing up. And the impact that school has on kids is really just crazy, whether it's through the teachers or the other students, academics, or even just the social pressure of being at school in general. There's always just such a huge impact on kids, especially in younger grades. [00:04:27] And so much of your view of yourself is formed in elementary school. I saw this a lot in my life as well as the lives of my younger brothers, too. 

So as a teacher, I wanted to allow the Lord to shine a positive light through me during those really important years. And so it's my prayer each morning before school that He would give me eyes to see students that are hurting and that His spirit would just guide me in my responses.

So I'm about to enter my fourth year of teaching. It's been really a blessing to be in this field, even though it is sometimes challenging. I taught in public school for my first two years, and then I switched to teaching kindergarten at Solid Rock in Moreton this past year. So, yeah.

Laura Dugger: Thank you so much for giving us the background. Now you've grown up in public school, but we're going to focus on private school education because that's where you're a teacher now. So what kind of positive impact are you seeing private school making in the lives of your students and the community? [00:05:29] 

Brianna Haworth: One of my favorite things I would say about teaching in Christian school is just how each subject is taught with a biblical worldview woven into it, whether that's science or reading, math. All of it really is tied together. This really has helped students just to be learning more about God's character during all parts of the day and not just during Bible lessons.

So my students last year really learned so much about God's creation and how He provides for us in so many ways. It was just really awesome to see their view of God just developing and seeing them learn more about Him throughout the day. 

One of my other favorite things about teaching in Christian school is just the spiritual influence that happens throughout the day. There's just so many opportunities to teach students practical ways to lean on God while they're at school. So like when there's behavior issues, we're able to pray about it together and look in scripture and see what God has to say. [00:06:27] 

When students are frustrated about a challenging academic task, I can ask them to listen to the Holy Spirit and see what He says about working hard and we can pray together in that too. So it's just been so beautiful to watch the spirit move in the classroom, especially coming from public school where that wasn't something that could really be talked about. And it's really just helped the students to look to God as their first response during challenges, which has been really just amazing to see. 

Our school also does monthly service projects to help grow servant hearts in our students. This has been a great way to reach out to the community as well. We volunteer over at the Midwest Food Bank. We did that a couple of times last year, and also we wrote some cards on Valentine's Day for a nursing home. We even raked somebody's yard in the fall. 

It really has just led to good discussion with the kids about living like Jesus and how He chose to serve and trying to follow those footsteps. [00:07:28] So that has been a really awesome part of the private school that I've been at.

Another positive impact is just the smaller class size too. At Solid Rock, there's a cap of 15 students per class where when I was teaching, my student teaching was in a public school and I had 28 students in one class. So just like that size makes such a difference where teachers are really able to differentiate their teaching and their instruction.

So if a student is moving faster, you can really give them one-on-one challenges and work with them so they're still working and growing. And then also if a student is struggling, you can have more time to work with them to help them master a skill. So it just leads to greater academic growth too throughout the year, which wouldn't always be possible with such a large class size.

Laura Dugger: I love how you're talking about these service opportunities, really getting hands-on experience. I love that so much. Even the organizations that you said you're involved with, Midwest Food Bank, comes to mind. [00:08:31] 

Previously, I had interviewed the founder of Midwest Food Bank, and he just shared miracle after miracle. I'm going to add a link in the show notes if anybody wants to go back and hear that message. It was fascinating to get to hear from him. So thank you for leading the children in that way. 

Are there any other systems that you've put in place in your own classroom that you've seen maybe to prove most beneficial?

Brianna Haworth: Yeah. One thing I really love is we do start every day with prayer. Once the kids come into the classroom, it's sweet because we kind of take turns praying too. So I get to hear each of the students share their own prayers and hear their hearts in that. 

But it really just helps to set the tone for the day and center us on the Lord each morning before we start all that's ahead of us. That's been something really simple but beneficial that just couldn't happen in a public school setting.

Another thing we do that I really love is we study the fruits of the spirit a lot, especially with kindergarten. [00:09:31] And they've been a really big help in the classroom. At the start of the year, we actually start by learning about the Trinity and the roles of God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. And then as we learn about the role of the spirit, we look into Galatians 5 to identify the different fruits of the spirit. I actually have them displayed on a little tree in my classroom. 

Then we introduce something I use called the fruit of the spirit jar. It's a system that's been really helpful. Basically, I just bought 100 small plastic little apples and then a really large clear jar. I made three marks that go up the jar. And each mark has a prize on it labeled. Like pajama day or extra recess, etc. 

Whenever the class or student was displaying a fruit of the spirit, they would get to go put one of the plastic apples in the jar and then they could kind of accumulate over time. And when they reached a mark, they got that prize. [00:10:29] 

So when students were waiting really patiently in line before lunch, I could have them put in a fruit of the spirit for patience. Or when a student was going out of their way to do something kind, they could earn a fruit of the spirit, too, and I would write a note home to tell their parents how they had shown the fruit of the spirit that day. So it's been a really practical way to reward students for making good choices and also tying God into all the different parts of our day. 

We also do something called calm time after lunch and recess each day. It's another pretty short and simple thing that has been really helpful. So when the students come in from recess, I have these twinkle lights on and the rest of the lights in the room are off. So it's a very calm setting when they come in. 

They come in and find a spot to lie down right away. And then once they're spread out, I play just like an acoustic worship song over my speaker. During this time, I encourage the kids to pray and take deep breaths, set goals and just prepare themselves to have a successful afternoon. [00:11:28] It only takes about four minutes each day, so it's really quick, but it's been a great way to help the kids transition from playtime to focusing in on school.

And then after the song ends, we all take a deep breath together and get started with our afternoon. So that's been another little helpful thing that we've done.

Laura Dugger: Wow, these are such great ideas. I'm even thinking now I would love to implement some of these into our home. So even with that calm time, you said you notice a big difference. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that? What do you see in the kids after that playtime as they transition?

Brianna Haworth: Yeah, for sure. Well, when kids are outside, like at recess or PE, that's usually just... it's the most unstructured part of the day, which is super necessary for kids so that they can focus as we get back into the learning for the day. But the transition can be really hard where if you just have them come in from running around and just go straight to their desks and start a lesson. They're really just not going to be focused or listening. [00:12:31] Just like physically, they're moving around a lot and they just start talking and not really able to focus. 

So usually when we do calm time, as soon as it's done, you can just tell like we have them calmly walk to their carpet spots and we like all just kind of ease into learning Bible time. And they just are really ready to focus even after just such a short amount of time. It's just like a reset button almost. It's really helpful.

Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor. 

[00:13:03] <music>

Sponsor: With over 1700 apartment units available throughout Pekin, Peoria, Peoria Heights, Morton, Washington, and Canton, and with every price range covered, you will have plenty of options when you rent through Leman Property Management Company. They have townhomes, duplexes, studios, and garden-style options located in many areas throughout Pekin.

In Peoria, a historic downtown location and apartments adjacent to the OSF Medical Center provide excellent choices. Check out their brand new luxury property in Peoria Heights overlooking the boutique shops and fine dining on Prospect. 

In Morton, they offer a variety of apartment homes with garages, a hot downtown location, and now a brand new high-end complex near Idlewood Park. Their beautiful, spacious apartments with private garages in a quiet but convenient location await you in Washington. And if you're looking in Canton, don't miss Village Square Apartments. Renters may be excited to learn about their flexible leases, pet-friendly locations, and even mini storage units available in some locations.

Leman Property Management Company has a knowledgeable and helpful staff, including several employees with over 30 years working with this reputable company. If you want to become a part of their team, contact them about open office positions. They're also hiring in their maintenance department, so we invite you to find out why so many people have chosen to make a career with them.

Check them out on Facebook today or email their friendly staff at leasing@Lemanprops.com. You can also stop by their website at Lemanproperties.com. That's Lemanproperties.com. Check them out and find your place to call home today. 

[00:14:57] <music>

Laura Dugger: Nowadays there are so many options for schooling. What would you say is something that you get to teach that's unique due to your private school setting?

Brianna Haworth: We spend time practicing Bible memory verses each day, which has been something obviously you couldn't do in a public school. And the kids learn a new verse every month and then we practice it daily. We also have a Bible curriculum that we do every day. These lessons focus a lot on just God's character and ways that He calls us to live. So it helps to just bring that conversation into the classroom. 

Another thing I really notice is that in private school, we devote a lot more time to things like science and social studies. With public schools, they spend the vast majority of their time and their resources on teaching reading and math because those are the subjects covered in the state standardized testing. 

So science and social studies often get thrown in very few times a week. Many elementary schools don't even provide their teachers with curriculum for those subjects. They kind of just do what they can, read a book, and say that that counted as their social studies time for the day. [00:16:06] Where at Solid Rock, we have a science and social studies curriculum that we consistently spend time on throughout the week. 

And the kids just really love those subjects and it really just helps them to have a more rounded out academic experience. And also tying in learning about God through those subjects, too, has been really great. 

We also have a Spanish curriculum that we do so that kids can be learning a different language, which I've never really seen much in public school. So that's been another really helpful thing.

Laura Dugger: Oh, I can absolutely see this being beneficial because children at that age can just soak up foreign language so much faster and adapt to that. And all of these things that you're putting in about the Bible verse memorization and even like going back to you talking about the fruit of the spirit, these are things that will benefit them for their entire lives. So I love hearing the impact you're making.

Brianna, what do you see as the most important thing for elementary students to learn or master? [00:17:09] 

Brianna Haworth: Honestly, I'm a strong believer that teaching character matters more than the content that you're teaching, because while it's important to keep up with academic standards, really the most important thing is for students to master character skills and helping them become good decision makers. 

It reminds me of the old saying about if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day; teach him to fish, you feed him a lifetime. Most adults probably couldn't tell you all the facts that they learned in elementary school, but many of them probably learned how to persevere when they first did a challenging school project.

So the bonus of teaching at a Christian school is that the character skills we practice can come from a biblical standpoint, too. So, as I mentioned before, I really use the fruit of the spirit as a starting point. And I think that's a really great place to start.

We also focus a lot on the concept of growth and the importance of noticing and celebrating growth, even if you're not quite as far along as someone else. [00:18:06] God's really given each of us unique gifting, and so some students may excel faster than others in a certain subject or learning area. 

Students tend to really notice this and they might want to quit if they realize they aren't grasping something as quickly as someone else. But often, the kids who grasp the concept quickly will then kind of stop pushing themselves and coast, and so then they're not growing either. 

So, as a teacher, I really focus on the concept of growth and that if you learn something quickly but stop challenging yourself, then you stop growing. Also, if you're slow to pick something up and you give up, then you also stop growing.

So, in both scenarios, you have students that are missing the character skill of perseverance. And so, if you can push both of those students to continue growing, then they're both more successful and can have built a habit of working hard to help them for the rest of their lifetime. This can really do wonders for a student's confidence, too, as you really help to highlight and celebrate how much they've grown instead of just comparing them to how fast they're learning it. [00:19:09] 

Laura Dugger: I love that. And I love how you chose to boil it down to character. It is escaping me right now. I can't remember which book I was reading recently. It may have been Habits of the Household, but where they gave this word picture that we are hoping and praying for fruit of the spirit in our children, but the soil that it grows in, that we cultivate, is character. So that really partners with what you're saying.

Brianna Haworth: I love that.

Laura Dugger: If this is your first time with us, I want to say welcome. We are so honored to have you join us and we would love to hear how you first heard about The Savvy Sauce. And if you've been here for a while, would you consider becoming a patron?

By joining our group of patrons, you gain exclusive access to many bonus episodes. And the new episodes and downloadable scripture cards just keep coming with your monthly patronage. You can join today by visiting thesavvysauce.com and clicking on our Patreon tab, then click "Join Patreon Here". [00:20:13] We are able to keep producing content due to the generosity of our patrons, so we want to sincerely say thank you. 

What would you also say are some helpful ways parents can partner with you for the benefit of their children?

Brianna Haworth: I would say that kids really thrive on consistency. So, it's really helpful when parents can do anything to be connecting school and home for the kids. For example, if our learning target for Bible time in the week is that God is good, and then parents talk about that at the dinner table, it really helps students to just further grasp the concept.

Another thing is just to check in daily with your child about how their behavior was at school and have discussions about things that they're doing well at and maybe things they could be working on. It just kind of helps to connect where it's not do whatever you want at school and then come home and there's no consequences or conversation about it. It really helps when you can have those discussions. [00:21:14] 

And even academically, it helps when you can be connecting school and home and reading with kids at home and practicing skills that they're learning, like counting or whatever it is we're learning in math or science. The students really, when they consistently practice these things, they learn more and they're more successful in what we're learning. So, it applies to academics and behavior, too.

And at the heart of it, you know, we really want kids to just be learning how to center their lives on Christ. So, if we talk about and practice that all day at school, but it doesn't continue at home, that can really be confusing for a child. So, keeping things consistent is really the most helpful thing in whatever way you're doing that, whether that's academics or behaviors or just how you are talking about God at home, too. 

Laura Dugger: Well, from your perspective, what are a few benefits of children attending private elementary school? 

Brianna Haworth: I think having a biblical perspective on behavior is really beneficial. [00:22:13] When I was teaching in public school and a student would do something unkind, for example, and I would try to talk to them about it, they sometimes wouldn't really understand why it was a problem. The furthest moral conclusion you could really get to was the golden rule of treating others the way you want to be treated. And that if you wouldn't like it, then you shouldn't do it to someone else. And it basically taught students to respect others because it's what they would want. 

So, in many ways, it was actually building a world centered around self for students, where they measured their morals with themselves at the center to determine if something was right or wrong. 

But then I would have some students say something unkind to another student and claim, well, I wouldn't mind if someone else said that to me, so it's fine. So, it just really doesn't work to try to teach morals without God as the unchanging center. It's really difficult for kids because otherwise you just don't have any clear measure.

So, being able to use Jesus as a role model really gives so much clarity to students when they're learning about right and wrong. [00:23:17] And with a biblical perspective, you can identify that God loves everyone and you can look to Jesus as an example of how to show that love. So, this allows you to really get to the heart issues when behavior problems come up in a way that you can't really do in a public school.

Another big benefit of sending your kids to private school is just that they have a lot less negative exposure impacting their lives in quite a few different ways. Elementary ages are just so impactful in a student's development. 

Public schools in America are really coming to a place of crisis from what most teachers would agree on. Ever since the COVID pandemic especially, the bad student behaviors have really just been at an all-time high. Public schools have their hands tied where they can't really do much to discipline poor behavior. And parents at home enable the behaviors to continue, so then these negative behaviors just escalate over time. [00:24:17] 

So, if you multiply this by five to eight students in every class, it really just leads to an immensely stressful environment for the kids and the teachers. And because of this, public school teachers are stretched very thin and are forced to take away lots of the privileges and fun things that would be in a classroom. 

In my public school, teachers were actually being told that we needed to be mean to the students because they responded more to fear than love. Which really forces teachers to tuck away so much of the love and passion that they had when they began teaching because behaviors are really just out of control and there's such a lack of support in the public school system. 

That was actually the main reason I stopped teaching in public school a few years ago. God just really clearly calls us in the Bible to be kind and tender-hearted and slow to anger. And I felt that in public school, I, as a teacher, was being asked to sin and act against how God was calling me to. [00:25:18] 

Of course, students need firm boundaries, but I believe you can do that without being mean and you can do that in a way that still shows the character of Christ.

So, in public schools, teachers are just in oversized classrooms with countless bad behaviors to manage all day and little to no support from families or administration. So, even the teachers with the best of hearts are really being driven to negativity. And so many great teachers are actually leaving the profession because these impossible situations that they're being thrown into.

Then the students, of course, are in the classroom, too. And they're left with teachers at the end of their ropes and they're being exposed to so many bad examples of behavior from other students. And at such an impactful stage of a kid's life, these bad examples are just a really bad impact and can have really damaging consequences.

Not to mention, there's also all the progressive standards that are being pushed into the young ages of public schools. [00:26:19] And it's just a lot of negative impacts on your kids from lots of different ways to look at it with the public school system right now. 

So, with private Christian schools, students are spending their day with teachers that are believers and students who come from supportive Christian homes. So, they're learning content that is centered around biblical teachings. It's really just a night-and-day difference between the public and private school setting. 

In private school, instead of all of those negative impacts on your children, they're really just being poured into and supported. And they have godly role models to look up to and friends who share their beliefs. And in such an important time of life, those positive influences really make a big difference.

Laura Dugger: You're really making me think of a scripture as you explain this about them, the children being in the presence of a believing teacher. I'm just going to read Luke 6:40 here in the New King James Version. It says, "A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher." [00:27:24] 

I do think when we're spending so much time with our teacher, inevitably we will become more like them. And so, you're just giving a lot of interesting points to think about. In this series, that's what we're hoping to do is to present a variety of options for school choices that's going to hopefully benefit both parents and students so that they can make informed decisions for what's wisest for their own family situation. So, Brianna, what are a few of your favorite reasons to recommend that they choose private elementary school?

Brianna Haworth: I would say the main thing really just comes down to trust. When you have a solid Christian school, it really provides a space where you feel safe to leave your children for the day and you trust the people in charge. I mean, I've heard that multiple times this year from the parents at my school that they just feel so safe leaving their kids with me for the day. 

And you also just see more consistency in what you're teaching your kids at home and what they're being told at school, whether that's academics or behavior. [00:28:28] So much of the lifelong development and worldview has grown in these years, so it's important to just know who you're allowing to influence. And with private school, I think you can just have a lot more trust and you also have a lot more of a relationship with the teacher because of the smaller class sizes.

I feel I got so close to all of the parents of my class this past year and really just felt like I got to know them and their families really closely in a way that I truly just couldn't have in a public school setting.

Laura Dugger: Well, with your unique perspective as a teacher then, what kind of encouragement do you want to share with the parents and the students who are listening right now?

Brianna Haworth: I would just say it's really all about growth and progress and that that looks different for different people and it occurs at different paces and that's really just okay. In 2 Peter 3:18, God calls us to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, to Him be the glory. [00:29:27] 

God doesn't call us to be perfect. He calls us to grow one degree at a time. So whether that be in academics or social interactions or just knowledge of our Savior, what really matters most is that students are listening to the Lord and following Him as they grow. It doesn't really matter where everyone else is at and it's not very helpful to spend your life comparing yourself to where other people are at. What really matters is to focus on growth.

Laura Dugger: Love it. You already know that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?

Brianna Haworth: Well, this isn't really teaching related, but it is something that has been really impactful that the Lord's been teaching me, especially these past few years of life. But being raised in a Christian environment, I often heard from church and my family that our life's purpose was to have an impact on others for God's glory. [00:30:28] 

For me, this really led to extreme pressure on myself, especially when I was younger, and perfectionism. And so especially then as I became a teenager, I felt so much pressure to successfully impact others and bring God glory. And I would spread myself so thin trying to do things for God, and then I wouldn't see an impact. I felt like such a failure. And it led to a lot of heartache and even some distance from God as I felt like I just kept on failing Him. 

But then the Lord really spoke to my heart when I was reading 2 Timothy. In chapter two, we're told to be a good soldier for Christ and that a soldier's aim is to please the one who enlisted him.

So thinking of my life's purpose being to please Christ rather than to impact others provided a lot of freedom as it really hands the weight of the outcome to the Lord. So each morning it's been my prayer that I would please God in the day ahead and please Him in my obedience to Him and in how I serve and show love to others and how I prioritize time with Him even. [00:31:32] And none of those things hinge on an outcome that's beyond my control. 

So I've learned to leave the outcomes in God's hands, and it's really allowed me to just live into who God is calling me to be without all of the pressure slowing me down. That simple mind shift has really greatly impacted my faith, especially these past few years. I find it really helpful to share with others, too.

So it really frees you from living in the weight that was always meant to be left in God's hand and it allows you to celebrate what God is doing, even if the outcome might not be what you had hoped or expected.

Laura Dugger: I love that so much. Thank you for sharing. I can just tell through this conversation how much your students mean to you. You have just given us such valuable information and wisdom shared that we can just now hopefully discuss as we make these schooling choices. So thanks for sharing your time with us, Brianna.

Brianna Haworth: Thank you. Thanks for having me. [00:32:32] 

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [00:33:32] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [00:34:31] 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. 

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [00:35:35] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

208 Tremendous Testimony and Adding Spark into Your Marriage with David & Terri Sumlin

*Disclaimer* This episode is not intended for young ears.

 

208. Tremendous Testimony and Adding Spark into Your Marriage with David & Terri Sumlin

 

**Transcription Below**

 

James 4:8 (NKJV) "Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded."

 

Questions and Topics We Discuss:

1. As it so often happens, What the enemy meant for evil, God used for your good. How did He begin to do that?
2. What are some practical things we can be doing in our own relationships to prioritize and delight in our marriages?
3. What specific stories can you share to encourage married couples and parents?

 

David and Terri Sumlin are co-founders of Marriage Life Ministries and authors of the Oneness of Marriage®, Intimacy of Marriage®, and Marriage Innovators Workshop® series designed to help couples enrich their marriages through the application of biblical principles and adventure-based learning. They both have served over the last 18 years as international marriage educators, retreat leaders, pastoral counselors, and conference speakers.

 

Their unique approach to marital education is built upon some of the advances found in neuroscience, psychology, physiology, and adventure-based therapy, which ultimately is tested through the lens of God’s word for validation. The result is an Activity-Based Marital Enrichment process that helps couples derive behavioral transformation and sustained learning. Couples who participate in these types of marital enrichment programs are 84% more likely to report having increased levels of marital satisfaction long after the program has ended.

 

David is a native Texan and earned his bachelor's degree in finance from the University of North Texas. He served as a management consultant with the American Productivity & Quality Center and later as an executive for Hewlett Packard. In 2002, after sensing God’s call to enter full-time vocational ministry, David enrolled at Dallas Theological Seminary to pursue a master’s degree in biblical counseling as well as a doctorate in marriage and family ministry.  Upon graduating from DTS, he received his call to pastor a church in northwest Houston for seven years before serving as a full-time marriage educator.

 

Terri was born in Ashland, Kentucky.  She earned her bachelor’s degree in Education from the University of North Texas.  Upon graduating, Terri has been blessed with a 23-year career as an English teacher.  Terri is a leader in women’s ministry and serves full-time alongside David in their combined marriage and family ministry.

 

David and Terri currently live in Houston, TX and will celebrate their 33^rd wedding anniversary this year.  They have two children, a son Robin and a daughter Morgan who married the love of her life, Zach and gave the Sumlin’s their first grandson, Brooks and granddaughter Sadie.

 

The Types of Marital Programs that we offer are three-fold.  Marriage Adventures are 7-day high adrenaline programs that include white-water rafting, challenge courses, and other high adventure activities designed to engage the emotional, cognitive, and behavioral parts of marital enrichment. Marriage Outbacks provide much of the same experiential-based learning objectives as our Adventure programs except that it is condensed into a weekend version where couples rough it in the great outdoors. The third type of program that we offer is our romantic Marriage Getaways hosted in intimate locations around the world.

 

Conferences, Workshops, & Pastoral Counseling.  In addition to our highly successful marital enrichment programs, we also facilitate marital education for churches, small groups, and organizations in both large conference and intimate workshop venues. In addition, we offer pastoral marriage support and pre-marital counseling on a case-by-case basis.

 

Marriage Life Ministries

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor:  Intimate-Focus

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription**

 

[00:00:00] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

 

[00:00:18] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message. 

 

Are you looking for ways to enhance your love life, but you're not sure where to turn for help? Intimate Focus offers solutions and quality products to help you enjoy your intimate activities. Intimate-focus.com is a trusted place to begin your journey, and make sure you use the code SAVVYSAUCE at checkout to save 20%. 

 

David and Terri Sumlin are my guests today, and they have a tremendous testimony. They're going to share their story with us now and give us fascinating insight into practical ways we can delight more in our own marriage.

 

Here's our chat. 

 

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, David and Terri. [00:01:18] 

 

David Sumlin: Yes, thank you.

 

Terri Sumlin: Hi, we're excited to be here.

 

Laura Dugger: Well, let's just start with the two of you taking us back to when you met and fell in love.

 

David Sumlin: Terri and I met when we were at the University of North Texas back in the early 80s. We were both officers in our respective fraternities and sororities. There was a leadership retreat on campus. I was probably a first-year senior. Terri was an incoming sophomore. Never met her before, but we got assigned to the same small group together. And it was there that I was captivated, couldn't keep my eyes off her.

 

Remembering the icebreaker that we had was paying a compliment to one another in the group. I knew everybody in the group, didn't know Terri. Got to Terri, and I just looked at her, and I just had this kind of one of those moments where your mouth opens up and starts saying things before your brain can catch up to what you're doing. 

 

And I just looked at her, and I said, "Those are the most gorgeous eyes I've ever seen." [00:02:19] And then I thought to myself, "Oh, my gosh, everyone in the group just heard what I said." So embarrassed, thought I'd never see her again. And it turns out God had a different story.

 

Terri Sumlin: But I like your question. That's how we met. But to fall in love, we both admit we probably didn't know what love was. We were both young, weren't walking with the Lord, and so we probably even through our first seven years of marriage even, it was more infatuation. It was lust. We got married out of lust and infatuation. And it wasn't until God stepped in that showed us what love was. So we probably fell in love seven years into our marriage. 

 

David Sumlin: Yeah, yeah.

 

Laura Dugger: Well, I love the honesty there. So if you take us back maybe to that time early on before you were in love, what difficulties did you go through early on as a married couple?

 

Terri Sumlin: Well, we were young. I was married at 22, and then we had children immediately. So within our first year of marriage, we had our first child, and then 20 months later, we had our second. [00:03:20] 

 

So it was just a struggle. We didn't have the foundation of a strong friendship because, again, we got married probably with the wrong motives. Neither one of us were walking in a personal relationship with the Lord, so we didn't have that foundation.

 

We were just trying to make it work by ourselves. And with a young family, David just dove headfirst into his career and felt how important it was to make money. So he devoted his life to his career and climbing that corporate ladder, where I turned to my job as a teacher and raising the children.

 

So our marriage was not a priority by any means. So we just started to drift apart, and we didn't have any common ground, any common bond that was keeping us together to fight for ourselves.

 

David Sumlin: Yeah. I would even add to that I was a consultant. I worked for a productivity company. And work, that's where I felt affirmed. I did not feel affirmed when we were together because it was always about the business of running kids and raising a family. [00:04:20] But work is where I got my accolades. That's where I felt like I had what it takes to be successful. 

 

So I dedicated almost 100% of my time to my work. I traveled a great deal. In fact, traveled so much. There was a three-year stint where I would leave, go to the airport, catch a plane on Sunday afternoon, fly around the world, and wouldn't come back until the following Friday. So basically for a good three years I was just a weekend dad, a weekend husband. If even that, because we often fought most of Saturday. 

 

It just got to a point where I just didn't really want to come home anymore. I've got to be in New York on Monday, so I'm just going to go ahead and stay where we were. So, yeah, that didn't help.

 

Laura Dugger: And I can see where a lot of couples may relate to that type of story. Sometimes it goes even further than that into more harmful or destructive choices. So with the two of you not having the Lord in your life and being married, but not turning toward one another, it sounds like you were turning toward work, David. And Terri, where were you turning? [00:05:33] 

 

Terri Sumlin: Well, unfortunately... well, I did. I was trying to be affirmed as a mother through my children, but those emotional needs that I had were definitely not being met. And so I did. I turned to another man. So I did step out of our relationship. While David was traveling for a few months, I stepped into having an affair with a man that I was working with, thinking that he was going to fill my heart, meet all my needs, those emotional needs that David was not meeting. So, yeah, so I did. I made a very bad choice trying to seek affirmation, trying to seek acceptance, and love from somebody else since I wasn't getting it from my husband.

 

Laura Dugger: Thank you for even sharing that. We've heard from listeners who are walking a similar path and they find themselves here where they can't believe they're on this trajectory. But just going back, I'm thinking, again, not having the faith piece, how did you two decide to stay together after that? [00:06:33] 

 

David Sumlin: Well, it was interesting. After Terri had confessed the affair, I went into just rage. I was just so angry with everything. It was actually my father, my estranged father, whom I didn't talk to for seven years because he divorced our family. Turns out he married his secretary and he had an affair. He came back into our lives at that moment, perhaps because my mother had called him and asked him to get over to our house because I was about to do something stupid.

 

My father, who became a Christian during the seven years I didn't talk to him, invited us to go to church with him. In fact, the next morning after Terri had confessed the affair on Saturday, when I went to that church service for the first time and listened to this pastor from the pulpit give this message, I'll be honest, I thought I was the only one in the sanctuary. I'm thinking to myself, "How could this pastor absolutely know how I'm feeling right now?" [00:07:32] And I wanted more of that. 

 

So for the next couple of years, I just threw myself into knowing everything I could about Jesus. Nothing else mattered. He was my solace. He was my refuge where I would turn to, even though Terri and I were going through that time of reconciliation.

 

Terri Sumlin: For me, God used that storm. He used the affair. He used what David and I were going through. I'll never forget. It was one night. We had had a huge fight like we always had, and David finally broke down and he just says, "You know, I'm done. I'm done. I want a divorce. This is over. I want a divorce." And it was that night that Jesus just grabbed me because I was at one minute screaming back at David, "Good, I hate you. I want out of this marriage." 

 

But then Jesus took hold of my heart. It's so difficult to describe this to somebody. Nothing I did, but He just took hold of my heart and he brought me to my knees. All of a sudden I'm crying. I'm shaking. [00:08:33] I can't breathe. And all of a sudden I just get on my knees and I cry out to David, "Don't leave. Don't leave. I want to make this work. Please don't leave." 

 

It was that night that Jesus called me into a personal relationship with Him. And He knew that that had to happen because the next morning I woke up, I felt like a different person. I felt like I was free. I felt like a renewed spirit, a renewed heart, a renewed soul. 

 

A couple of days later God used some circumstances at a camping trip that caused me to confess my affair to David. That was the moment. I never would have done that. Never would have done that if Jesus had not already accepted me and forgiven me and shown me how much He loved me and transformed my heart.

 

So He knew I had to be transformed first. And then from that, that's when I was able to feel safe enough to confess my affair to David and then trust God with what was going to happen from there. And that's eventually what led David to what he just described as well. [00:09:33] 

 

David Sumlin: Yeah. And for a lot of couples who are trying to go through this season of reconciliation, while the church can certainly and is a refuge for many of those couples, Terri and I were on two separate tracks. She was pursuing her faith with God by getting involved in women's studies and prayer groups and things like that, while I had a separate track getting involved in more the care ministry side of church.

 

So even though we chose during those two years of reconciliation after the confession of the affair to stay in church together, we still were on two separate tracks, and rarely did those tracks ever meet up with one another. 

 

Part of that, during that time, Terri got involved in youth ministry. So it's interesting how God used a very specific event to really bring us both to our knees. Terri's involved in youth ministry. Two years after the affair was confessed, we're still trying to heal from this, but no one in the church knew about our little dark secret. Nobody knew about the affair. [00:10:40] Nobody knew that I was still harboring bitterness and resentment and unforgiveness. 

 

We rarely slept in the same room during those two years. We never, I think, even uttered the words, I love you. And then it happened two years after the confession, our youth group in our church is taking a ski trip to Colorado as part of a youth conference with five other churches. And the youth pastor comes up to Terri two days before the trip and says, "Terri, we've got a problem. Our adult chaperones have just backed out. Is there any way you and David could go on this trip and chaperone these high school students?" And we said, "Well, it's Christmas. We're on vacation. So yeah, we can go as long as we can bring our two little kids with us." And off we go and do the very best we can do, sleeping in the same hotel room for a week.

 

Fast forward, now it's time to come home. We finished the conference, finished our ski trip, and our youth pastor on the day of departure from the hotel in Crested Butte decides to make one more run down the mountain with all the students. [00:11:46] Our bus was supposed to leave the hotel at 12 o'clock in the afternoon, and we don't end up leaving until seven o'clock at night.

 

By this time, the 73-year-old bus driver is beside himself. He is so angry with our youth pastor because he knows he's going to miss the driver exchange in El Paso. So off we go. We're the first of five trailway buses following a snowplow through Monarch Pass, these windy roads in the mountains of Colorado. 

 

And it's there that our bus driver, about nine o'clock at night, decides to make a bold move and pass the snowplow. The second bus behind us said, "You were going so fast we lost sight of you within seconds." As our bus is winding its way through these windy roads in the mountains, it hits the first patch of black ice, slams the bus into the side of the mountain. He brings it back under control. I'm sitting right behind the driver with my son, and Terri's right behind me with my five-year-old daughter. [00:12:41] 

 

Terri stands up, screams at the driver, "You're going too fast, slow down." The youth pastor next to me gets up, goes to the back of the bus, because he knows what's about to happen, gets all the students to get down in the middle of the aisle. And as the bus is approaching a big wide turn in the mountain, it's there he hits the second patch of black ice, spins the bus completely backwards, and we go off the mountain at 75 miles an hour, is what the black box recorded the wheel speed.

 

As the bus is rolling down the mountain, rather bouncing down the mountain, ripping the roof further and further off the bus, it's depositing 55 students and six adults all down the mountain. Now, sadly enough, there were three fatalities in that accident. They flew in army helicopters to triage everyone that was alive to five different hospitals all over Colorado. And they took me to a local country hospital in Canyon City, and I'm laying on the emergency room table, head strapped to the table. [00:13:39] I didn't know what was going on. In fact, I had a severe concussion. I remember a boy, he told me, came up to me afterwards and looked at me on the mountain. Had blood all over my face, broken arms, everything. And he looks at me and he says, "Mr. Sumlin, are you okay?" And I said, "I'm not Mr. Sumlin. I'm Joshua." I had no idea who I was. 

 

And so I'm in that state on that emergency room table. A nurse keeps coming in and asking me questions. You know, do you know where you are? Do you know your name? What happened? I don't know any of that. I know my name's David, and I kept telling her I was 18 years old. Then she brings in my son, and she says, "David, I know you can't see him, but I've got a young boy here. His name is Robin. Do you know him? We're trying to find his parents." 

 

Now, I can't see him, but he can see me. And he just screams up, "Dad!" And it just starts coming back to me. And I asked the nurse, I said, "Where's Terri?" She goes, "I'm sorry, we don't know. [00:14:40] We don't know where. You've all been taken to five different hospitals all over Colorado." 

 

In that moment, I began praying out loud for the very first time, "God, why did you allow this to happen?" I don't hear anything. No answer. And then all of a sudden, it feels like all my thoughts are getting interrupted. I can't hold onto a thought more than just a few seconds. 

 

And then I start hearing this word over and over again in my head, the same word I used with Terri two years prior when I wanted a divorce. "Done. Done. David, you're done. You're done with your corporate career. You're done with the money, the possessions. David, you're done holding onto this bitterness, resentment, and unforgiveness towards Terri. You need to find Terri. You need to tell her that you forgive her for that affair and that you were in love with her."

 

The ironic thing about the whole thing is my whole family was triaged to that local hospital. The doctors and nurses just didn't know it. It took them two days before they could figure out who kind of belonged to who. [00:15:42] I remember them wheeling my bed into Terri's intensive care unit. By that time, all the doctors, family, they're all in the room. I didn't care. I made everybody leave. Everybody leave. Shut the door.

 

And I looked at my wife, who was unconscious, laying on the hospital bed. She got beat up bad. She severed her spine in several places, broke her ribs, her arms. Her head looked like a basketball, swollen, black and blue. Tubes in her nose and mouth. I didn't care. I looked at her and I said, "Terri, I don't know if you can hear me or not, but I need you to know something. I need you to know that I forgive you for that affair two years ago and I am so in love with you."

 

Terri remained in the hospital for four months, surgery after surgery. They didn't think she was ever going to walk again. By that time, I was an executive at Hewlett-Packard. And I remember walking in on crutches in January to my senior vice president's office. It was performance review time. [00:16:44] And he sat me down, he said, "David, I'm so sorry for what's happening in your family. Please know the companies behind you will do anything to help support you. And in terms of performance review, you can have anything you want. What do you want? Name it. You want Asia, it's yours. You want Europe, it's yours. And I just remember looking at him and saying, "You know what? I'm done. I'm done. I believe God is calling me and my wife into something that's so bigger than ourselves." 

 

Just to walk alongside other married couples and help tilt their chin two inches up to get God's perspective of what really is important in this life. And it's an amazing thing God did. Just to give us perspective of what really is important. Because it's not the money. Not the possessions. It's not even sometimes what we think we deserve or are entitled. What's really important on this side of heaven is the person you're married to. It's the person you're living life with, the family you're living life with, and a relationship with God. [00:17:49] 

 

It's flipped us totally upside down. That was really what we needed to change our trajectory and move us in a different direction in terms of our healing and our purpose, life purpose, for what we do now.

 

Laura Dugger: I am stunned by hearing the account of your story. Terri, is there anything you would also add from your side?

 

Terri Sumlin: As far as the story itself goes, unfortunately, from when I stood up and told the bus driver to slow down, they said I was awake and talking, but I don't have another memory until like a week later. So the details of the story, people ask me all the time, when he came in and said he forgives you and loves you, how did you react? I'm like, I hate to say that I was unconscious. I don't remember that. 

 

But I do remember the feelings afterwards when we flew back to Houston and David was by my side and I got to see it wasn't just words. [00:18:51] I got to see his forgiveness. I got to experience his love and his new perspective and change in life. 

 

Something so horrific... People are like, "Oh, you know, I'm so sorry that happened." And I'm like, "Yes, the events of it were horrific, but the outcome was beautiful." And if that's what it took for God to bring us to the other side of our faith, the other side of our marriage, to restore us, then you know what? I'm thankful for it. I'm thankful that he didn't give up on us. I'm thankful that He just didn't let us live in our sin and our misery. But He used something like a bus accident to bring us out of that, to renew our focus and renew our hearts.

 

Laura Dugger: And I'm assuming your children were okay in the accident as well.

 

Terri Sumlin: They were. Our son is the only one on the whole bus, did not have a scratch on him. They think he landed on top of David and bounced off of him. 

 

Our daughter has a pretty bad laceration across her face and broke her ankle. And she still has some anxiety issues. [00:19:50] She'll be 30 next month and she still has anxiety issues and some PTSD from the event. But other than that, they're good. They're fine.

 

Laura Dugger: Understandable. That is like you described, such a horrific event. And yet as it so often happens, what the enemy meant for evil, God used for your good.

 

Terri Sumlin: Definitely.

 

Laura Dugger: How did he continue to do that?

 

Terri Sumlin: Just even the way we're living today, if you would have asked us 20 years ago, 15 years ago, that we would be doing and helping other couples in their marriages and help them see God's design for marriage, we probably would have laughed because we ourselves were so miserable. But he just used this event. He used even the affair I had to help other people understand expectations, to help other people understand...

 

I mean, I know the reason I had the affair is I had a void in my heart, an emptiness in my heart, and I expected my husband to fill that. [00:20:50] And when he didn't, I went and tried to find someone else who could. But God used that emptiness and that void in my heart to, again, bring me back to him. So it's really helped not only in our own marriage but for us to understand possibly what other couples are going through. I can understand loneliness. I can understand insecurity.

 

We understand unforgiveness, unmet expectations. We've lived so much of it that I think God is... that's why I think he's blessed our ministry, that we can walk alongside other couples and really help them with empathy, not just sympathy or not just with tools and knowledge, but with true empathy because we've been there. So He's using our misery for our ministry, as we hear all the time.

 

David Sumlin: Yeah, and it's interesting. I people sometimes when they ask what we do, I say, you know, in some sense we certainly are gypsies. We don't ever stay home or on the road two to three months at a time. But in another way, I would consider ourselves kind of like stormologists. [00:21:52] We study the storms of marriage and family. And what's beautiful about that, just walking alongside other couples who might be going through storms, is for those couples that kind of lean into God during those difficult life circumstances, what I've noticed and what I've come to learn over the years is that God can use the storms, certainly can use the storms of marriage, of family, not just to bring you to the other side of rest or peace or comfort. 

 

I believe God uses the storms in our lives to bring us to the other side of our faith. There's such a beautiful picture of how Jesus does that, even in the midst of His own storm with His disciples as they're going across the Sea of Galilee. God can use those storms to help reveal His power, His presence in our lives. I tell you, if I'm in a storm, I do not want to take one step out of that storm until I've learned everything God wants me to know. [00:23:03] 

 

Terri Sumlin: And another part of the storm part and another way that God is using our ministry, I think, to help understand others is we love what He did for us. He had to break us down. He had to totally get us to confess our sins, to look at how sinful we have been. He had to get us to that point of brokenness before He could begin to redeem and restore us, not only individually, but also our marriage. 

 

One of our favorite scriptures we use with couples as well is in James 4:8-9. He says, "Cleanse your hands, you sinners, be miserable. Let your joy turn to mourning. Let your celebrations turn to gloom." In other words, you should be able to look at your sin. When you look at your sin, you should be so broken that you know that nothing else can get you out of where you are except for the grace of Jesus Christ. And that's where He had us. We had to get to that point of brokenness, that storm of brokenness, before He could restore us individually and our marriage. [00:24:06] 

 

That's what we're able to tell other couples from personal experience. We counsel with a lot of couples now, and we're looking for what we call that James 4 moment. Have you had that James 4 moment? Have you had that moment of brokenness where you're truly looking at your sin with repentance? Are you accepting the grace of Jesus Christ to cover your sin? Because you have to get to that point before He can begin to restore you or your marriage or your relationship, whatever that might be.

 

So it's sort of our code word now. It's like, okay, have we seen the James 4 moment yet that He brought us to? Or have we not? Or is God still working in that heart? Is there still some work that He's doing?

 

Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor. 

 

[00:24:47] <music>

 

Sponsor: At Intimate Focus, they believe sexual health and pleasure are God-given gifts, and married couples should be able to enjoy sexual intimacy throughout their lives. Life changes such as pregnancy, childbirth, medical problems, or menopause, all of these seasons, can make sexual activity difficult to enjoy. But you do not have to suffer in silence. You are not alone. For others, everything may be going well, but you just want to spice up your love life. They can help with that, too. 

 

Intimate Focus offers quality sexual health products and trustworthy information that will equip you to enjoy life's intimate moments. All their products are non-toxic and body-friendly, and information on the website is based on reliable medical advice. Intimate Focus is available to help enhance your sexual intimacy. 

 

Visit Intimate-Focus.com to begin your journey, and make sure you use the coupon code SAVVYSAUCE at checkout to save 20%. Again, the website is Intimate-Focus.com, and the coupon code is SAVVYSAUCE to save 20% on your first order. 

 

[00:26:04] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: It's clear that God has restored and redeemed your lives and your marriage. But if you catch us up to present day, after that moment of leaving your corporate job, David, how did the two of you launch into marriage ministry, and what does it look like today?

 

David Sumlin: In those days, when I told my senior vice president I was done, we had prayed for two years about just, okay, what can God do with this? My younger brother was already in seminary at Dallas Theological Seminary, and we prayed about it. So I enrolled, went to seminary, got my master's in biblical counseling, as well as my doctorate in marriage and family ministry.

 

During that time, we were introduced to an opportunity at a place called JH Ranch in Northern California. It's a camp where they lead week-long retreats for parent teens, and they were just in the midst of starting a marriage tract where husband and wives could go and experience this adventure-type ministry. [00:27:16] 

 

The chairman of the board heard our story, heard about the affair, the bus accident, and also knew that I was in seminary, and invited us to come out and lead the husband and wife program. That was, gosh, that was nearly 18 years ago. And we've been out there ever since. It's a big part of our ministry. 

 

We just decided to... we led a life of surrender. We sold everything, you know. Back then, we had a 6,000-square-foot home on a golf course, beautiful cars, possessions. We sold everything, got rid of everything so that we could become itinerant for the Lord. 

 

It was during that time, God was kind of building this marriage ministry, our passion for walking alongside other couples, and it just kept growing and growing and growing beyond the walls of JH Ranch into other areas. Winshape, for example, a ministry founded by Chick-fil-A, called us in to start leading some of their retreats and adventures. [00:28:20] 

 

So it's brought us to a point now we... I guess several years ago, probably going on 10 years now, maybe decided to, you know, maybe God's calling us to start a ministry. So we founded Marriage Life Ministries, for which we now lead probably upwards of 40 to 50 events per year.

 

Even though we have a house here in Houston, Texas, we're here probably maybe four or five weeks a year. We are on the road constantly, two to three months at a time, ministering to a little over 10,000 marriages every 12 months. And in the midst of leading these high adventure retreats, which is kind of our specialty, we also do a whole lot of counseling with couples.

 

Terri Sumlin: And he mentioned high adventure. In Northern California at JH Ranch and some of the other places we do, the high adventure is high ropes courses. It's whitewater rafting. It's horseback riding. It's, you know, just anything to get you out of your comfort zone to help you lean on God and lean on each other more. [00:29:27] 

 

David's whole dissertation, his doctorate was about the advantages of adventure-based learning in marriages. So it's not sitting in a classroom getting lecture to filling in blanks type thing. All of our retreats are incorporating some type of activity. Even if we're not at a place where we can do the high ropes courses, we're still doing low ropes, we're still doing activities where couples actually have to get out of their seats and do something to help reinforce the principles or the ideas that we're trying to teach or that scripture is telling us about.

 

So ours are a little different. We've been to many retreats that are very good, but they're more of a classroom setting. We want to do things differently, that you're out of your seat. You're actually doing things actively to help reinforce ideas.

 

Laura Dugger: There's even brain science behind that, that makes it stick. 

 

Terri Sumlin: Definitely.

 

David Sumlin: Well, if I could just get a little geeky.

 

Laura Dugger: Absolutely.

 

David Sumlin: I'm a research nut. [00:30:24] It was during that period of time of healing where Terri and I... you know, Terri would say during those two years, shortly after she confessed the affair, "David, let's go to a marriage retreat. Let's get help. Let's go to a counselor." And I would try those things. We'd go to a weekend marriage conference and I would end up leaving Friday night shortly after the opening comments, because I'm like, Yeah, these people don't know what we're going through kind of thing. 

 

So when I set out on my doctoral research, what I wanted to do is kind of entertain the question, is there a different way to bring about marital enrichment, especially for couples who are trying to heal. So for four years, I made this camp up in Northern California, JH Ranch. It was my research laboratory. I would take couples and I would strap biofeedback monitors on these couples as they were traversing these obstacle courses 50 feet up in the air kind of thing. 

 

And I had these biofeedback monitors tethered through Bluetooth to an iPad where I'm watching, monitoring heart rates, breathing, video cameras, recording eye movement, verbal communication, body language, the whole nine yards. [00:31:40] 

 

What I noticed is that when couples get into an escalated state, and Dr. John Gottman really kind of talks more about this, it's those times of escalation, those times of fight, flight, or freeze where we don't believe our spouse understands what we're trying to tell them. And it's in those moments where we get into an escalated state, our sympathetic nervous system kicks in, adrenaline is running through our body, and we get into that lockdown. We just cannot make sense of what's going on in our argument.

 

Dr. Gottman, a lot of counselors will say, well, take a timeout, which is absolutely a thing you want to do if you're in an escalated state. You want to allow the parasympathetic nervous system to kick in and reverse the process, bring you to a state of equilibrium. But a lot of counselors, Gottman included, will say, I wonder if we could in the moment equip couples with tools to help them de-escalate.

 

So the whole premise of my research was, what if I could teach couples how to resolve conflict in the morning and then simulate conflict in the afternoon by putting them 50 feet up in the air on these tight ropes, traversing obstacles through the canopy of the trees, strapped into harness systems. [00:32:54] And it was true. 

 

As soon as these couples would get even strapped in with their helmet and their harness, their heart rates would start escalating. And we know that physiologically, if your heart rate is above 95 beats per minute, there's a good chance you can get into that fight, flight, or freeze mode. 

 

So these couples, as they're in clearly an escalated state, what we noticed is couples who would employ the tools we gave them, deep breathing, long exhales, looking into each other's eyes, honey, it's okay, we're on the same team, we can do this together, I tell you what, put your hands on my shoulders, I'm here with you. Those couples, one, their heart rates came down a lot faster. The parasympathetic nervous system kicked in much sooner. 

 

Then we would monitor their relationships. We used instruments to measure their level of marital quality or marital satisfaction before they arrived to the event. [00:33:53] Again, on the day of departure, seven days later. And then we would also measure that at intervals of three months, six months, nine months after the event. 

 

And what we noticed is that 84% of couples who engage some kind of experiential learning opportunity in the midst of their healing, those couples, 84% of those couples, sustain the incremental improvements to their marriage well beyond the actual event, which is much different than traditional counseling, which a lot of counselors, if they're willing to be honest and admit, you know, really only about 11% of couples who go to traditional counseling will sustain the incremental benefits of the counseling intervention. 

 

But sadly, 90% of couples could, in fact, relapse two months to two years after the counseling event and go back to the way they were. So we wanted to do something different. And it's amazing how many counselors will refer their most difficult cases to our adventure-based marital enrichment programs. [00:35:01] And it's amazing what God does through that. These couples will leave saying, this was absolutely the best part of our entire marriage, just being able to be present with God in the midst of doing something very experiential. So I love what we do.

 

Laura Dugger: I think that's fascinating. It makes me wonder, based on all of your research, what are some practical things that all of us can be doing in our own relationships to prioritize and delight in our marriages?

 

Terri Sumlin: Quite a few things. We'll just sit on a few of them. One is making sure the first thing is use the word prioritize to prioritize your marriage and make it the most important relationship thing you do on this side of heaven.

 

Second, too, your definitely a personal walk with the Lord. But it's active dating. It's being intentional about your dating each other consistently once a week. [00:36:00] A lot of couples are like, "Once a week. I have two little kids. I can't do that, whatever." And when we say once a week, we just mean carve out a couple of hours every week to have quality time together.

 

It doesn't mean you have to spend a lot of money going out with a babysitter and so forth, but just at least once a week where you have quality time, where you're not talking business, finances, kids, etc., but you're doing something that's going to create a memory. Maybe it's a picnic in the backyard. Maybe it is going out to something fun. We do reinforce active dating as much as possible, just like the adventure-based learning. It's getting your heart rate up. Go bowling. Go do something fun and adventurous. Try novel ideas you've never done before. But do things that are going to create positive memories and putting those positive deposits into the neural pathways in your brain. 

 

So definitely active dating or some type of date at least once a week where you're saying no to children, no to the busyness of the world, no to dishes, and so forth, but say yes to your marriage, where you're spending quality time.

 

We actually have some date cards that we've created. [00:37:01] So even if you are just going to dinner, that's fine. But we give you cards to talk about during dinner that's going to help you remember wonderful memories you've had or dream about the future or affirm each other and just really dwelling on the positive.

 

So our days of just going at dates and playing on our phones and staring into space, those are over. We try to be real creative and different, even the days where we're just going to dinner type thing.

 

David Sumlin: Yeah. Another thing I think that we really emphasize with couples we work with is how to navigate through unmet expectations. This has been a game changer for not just me and Terri, but for the couples we work with. We've created something we call an expectations inventory where you're cataloging, taking inventory of all the expectations you have of yourself as a husband, as a wife, as a father, mother, in all these different areas of your relationship, working with kids, how we communicate, how we resolve conflict, how we spend our leisure time, all those things.  [00:38:00] 

 

But taking inventory of the expectations you have yourself and the expectations you have of the other person. And then the third column of that is now list all the expectations you believe your spouse has of you. Once we get them to catalog all these expectations, then we have them go circle all the unmet expectations. 

 

What we want to know is are those expectations realistic? If they're not, can you give yourself permission to take it off your list, take that expectation down? If it is important, but you're not meeting it, then what can we do to either negotiate that expectation to where it is realistic or how do we cope with it?

 

I got just a quick story. Terri and I did this. We were getting ready to celebrate our 30th anniversary and 30th anniversaries are big. And we wanted to go to... I had this dream of going to Italy and just spending two weeks in Italy. But it was during COVID, you know, the whole world shut down. [00:39:01] So we ended up going to the one place that allows anybody. And we went to Mexico. So we got a first-class all-inclusive resort in Mexico and we spent some money on it.

 

But I knew that two weeks before we left to go on our vacation, our anniversary trip, I knew just from previous experiences that if one of us says something or does something that falls short of the other's expectation, it certainly can ruin that day, if not the whole vacation. So I told Terri, what I want to do is I want us to go on a hike. Just go through a national... there's a national forest close by our house.

 

Let's go on a three-hour hike together. We're going to get our heart rates up. We know that when we do that and have a meaningful conversation, couples tend to remember those conversations much more than they would if they was just sitting in a chair.

 

So for the entire three hours, we hiked through this national forest. We talked through every expectation we had of that Mexico vacation or that anniversary trip. [00:39:59] Everything down to the details of what I expected Terri to wear, you know, are these nights going to be flirtatious nights or are they going to be just sitting down at a sports bar watching the national college football championship kind of thing.

 

And it gave us an opportunity during those three hours to say, Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I know that's your expectation, but I'm not sure that's realistic. What if we did this instead or if we kind of modified that?

 

What ended up happening is by the time we went to Mexico, it ended up being the best week of our entire marriage because we didn't have to deal with any unmet expectations. We knew it was important to the other person and we had already agreed.

 

Terri Sumlin: And we've taken that same concept and now we apply that to almost every day. So we would highly encourage couples... you know, a lot of couples say, well, we don't really have expectations. But I would challenge that. Pretty much every argument you get in with anybody is because one or both of you have not met the expectations. [00:41:00] 

 

The other person didn't do or say or react the way you had hoped or would have expected them to. We, again, encourage couples to do this every day. If we're going to go do something, what are your expectations? Is this going to be this kind of date or is it going to be a fun date or romantic date? Okay, we're going with the kids to this event. What are your expectations?

 

Just really talking about realistically, are your expectations realistic? Are they not? And yeah, that has become a new vocabulary for us. Almost every day before we enter anything, we have that discussion.

 

Laura Dugger: There's an exciting project taking place behind the scenes right now, and I would love to invite you to participate. I will give you more details as I'm able, but for now, here's my request. Will you email me your personal story of a specific way God has clearly shown up in your life? Big or small, I want to hear an account of the way he made Himself known to you and maybe received credit for an answered prayer or a way He worked out a situation in a miraculous way or how He displayed His power in your life. [00:42:10] 

 

There's no limit to the type of story to submit as long as it's true. So please email me your story at this email address, info@thesavvysauce.com. I can't wait to read your story. Thanks for sharing. I want to speak to parenting a little bit too, but first just to understand when you quit your job, left Texas headed to JH Ranch in California, what ages were your kids at that phase? And what did family life look like at that time?

 

Terri Sumlin: We actually found out about the ranch because David in the healing of our marriage, but also healing as a father, he took both of our children out there as a father child, part of JH Ranch. And that's how we were first introduced to it. 

 

So they, at that time, when he took each of them out there, they were probably 12. So by the time we did our first retreat, I would say our son was probably 14 and our daughter was 12. [00:43:09] That was the very first retreat we ever did. So as parents, I will say when the kids were younger in the midst of our turmoil and so forth in our marriage, we were not the best parents. I was basically a single mom. So we don't have a whole lot of stories to tell. Oh, this is the perfect way to do it as, you know, raising your children. 

 

But once we found the Lord and recognized his way and decided to put our marriage as a priority, our children were old enough to understand that. I still remember the first time I told my daughter… she wanted to go shopping at a mall for a homecoming dress, and I told her no, because I was going on a date with her dad. She was appalled. What, what? But now that was the beginning of a change. And now she can go back and say, "I'm glad I saw that towards the end of while I was at home. I saw you prioritize marriage over us." 

 

It's really hard, especially for moms. We are that nurturer and we just want to put our children's needs before our own, before our spouses, and so forth. So that can be really hard. But our children now, so appreciate and so respect what we do and our story behind it. [00:44:16] No judgment. They're just very proud of what we do. Again, they were old enough to remember the pain of the beginning of our relationship to see the blessings of it now.

 

David Sumlin: Yeah. I would also say it was during that time where we're so... keep in mind, you know, Terri and I are trying to heal our marriage, but we're also being introduced to a relationship with Christ at the same time. What we wanted to do in our healing with our children is also give that to them as well. So it's teaching both our son and daughter how to have an abiding relationship with Christ, what that looks like, what it looks like to pray together. 

 

Our world was just turned upside down after that bus accident. They're now getting into a relationship with Christ. They're learning how to be involved in the church. It's interesting. My son in fact starts this week. He's now at Dallas seminary going through his master's program there as well. So both our children are incredibly Godly and do have an abiding relationship. [00:45:19] That was the most important piece. That was most important gift we could give them even out of that storm that we went through.

 

Terri Sumlin: So depending on the age of your children, when they're old enough to understand, but for them to understand that mom and dad love each other, that it's secure for your children to see, you know, you loving on your spouse, kissing each other, holding hands, being affectionate. 

 

We always say for your kids to say, "You're gross," that's a good thing. We want our kids to see that mom and dad are good, that we are affectionate with each other. We do love each other. Because we have to remember this might be the only role model your children have of what marriage looks like is what you're giving them and what they're seeing every day. So we just want to make sure that's a God-honoring relationship that they're seeing.

 

Laura Dugger: Well, then to kind of wrap it up, but do either of you have any specific stories to share or unique encouragement for the married couple listening or the parents who are tuning in right now? [00:46:21] 

 

David Sumlin: Just for starters, we get to see miracles every single week as we work with these couples. One of my favorite stories, you know, we were down in West Palm Beach, Florida, doing a retreat and the waiting list for retreats can be pretty hefty. And there was this one couple that had registered, but they were on the waiting list. They were actually going through a divorce. It was a Thursday. The retreat started Friday. It was a Thursday. They were sitting up in mediation with their attorneys. 

 

An hour away from signing divorce papers, they're at the table, they get a call. The husband gets a call from our registrar who says, "Hey, congratulations. You've cleared the waiting list. You can go to the retreat tomorrow." And he looks at his wife across the table and says, "What do you think? One more chance?" And she says, "Yeah, what do we have to lose?" [00:47:19] 

 

They go to the retreat by the end of the week... And we met with them several times, but at the end of the week-

 

Terri Sumlin: Weekend. In fact, it was only two days. 

 

David Sumlin: Yeah. They stood up in front of the entire camp, shared their story about how they were an hour away from signing divorce papers. They decided to call off the divorce, move back in together. And now they coach with us and they've been doing that for several years.

 

Terri Sumlin: I think to David's point, yes, God... I used to... you know, because we do week-long retreats and then we do weekends. And I'm like, really, you're going to save a marriage in a weekend? But God can do anything. And just if we're submitting to Him and allow Him to work in our hearts, He can and will save any marriage, redeem any marriage, restore, enrich. A lot of people are like, do you have to be in distress to come to a marriage retreat? And we're like, absolutely not. Come just to get enriched, just to have positive memories with each other kind of thing.

 

The one thing I would say as well that has really, really helped us, and it all stemmed from the bus accident, is that idea of forgiveness and grace and expectations. [00:48:23] I think many of us go into marriage with expectations of the happily ever after, you know, and I just can't wait to get married, I'm going to be happy and you're going to meet all my needs, etc. But then we get into the reality of it and there is no way we can meet each other's needs. There is no way we'll be able to live up those expectations of perfection that many of us might have, even if we don't realize it. So it's understanding grace. It's understanding none of us are perfect. We're going to fall short every day. But Jesus doesn't hold on to our sins. He doesn't hold that against us. We are called to do the same. So I think that's the thing that David and I have learned and we've seen other couples.

 

We do something called a Trust Fall at the end of many of our retreats, where they really have to let go of something that's been holding them back. And many of them say it's unforgiveness. And so it's just every day. We don't let arguments last more than a few minutes. They used to last for weeks at a time. Now they last a few minutes. We still get into arguments. We do. [00:49:21] A lot of them quite often, because we're working together and living together and everything else. 

 

But we've learned, you know what, it's not worth it. This relationship is the most beautiful thing. God has restored it. He's redeemed us. Why are we going to let a misunderstanding or an unmet expectation eat away at what God has brought us together? So we've learned to live in a state of forgiveness, of grace, and dealing with unmet expectations in a much better way. When couples are able to get there, God takes their marriages beyond anything you could imagine.

 

Laura Dugger: That is incredible and encouraging. And I hope that it specifically encourages someone listening today. So if they're intrigued for enrichment or if they're in crisis or just want to try something different, where can they go to learn more from you two and learn about your ministry?

 

David Sumlin: The easiest way to do that is to go to our website, MarriageLifeMinistries.com. In that, they can learn kind of where we'll be, our schedule. [00:50:24] So we're in cities all over the country as well as around the world. That's the first place I would go. 

 

Then we occasionally have resources we put out there where they can download those and get some more help. Or just simply call. My number is listed on the website. They can call me directly on my cell phone. And we'll be happy to point them in the right direction if we're not the ones that can help them. We certainly know a lot of people that can.

 

Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will link to that in the show notes for today's episode. And you two may already be aware our podcast is called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for both of you today, what is your savvy sauce?

 

David Sumlin: That's good. I like that. You know, it's interesting. I think our savvy sauce and keep in mind, we just celebrated our 32nd wedding anniversary. And I would say the last couple of years have been the best years of our entire marriage. And here's why. [00:51:28] 

 

We understand that there's different forms of intimacy. There's spiritual intimacy, emotional, physical, sensual, and sexual. We have taken a concerted interest in sensual intimacy and have made it an art form. It no longer is just a kiss, a peck on the cheek. Just not recently, we came home from dinner one night and I heard this song on the radio by Alicia Keys, Fallin'. I was so intrigued with that song and downloaded it by the time we got home.

 

I took Terri, fully clothed, put her on top of the kitchen counter, and we kissed for an hour and a half. It was as if we were taking a blank canvas and painting a Rembrandt. You know, just taking our level of intimacy. And that's carried over in the other fields of intimacy as well, spiritual and sexual and emotional and physical as well. It's just not taking each other for granted. [00:52:29] 

 

Terri Sumlin: I would agree with that. Mine's a little bit different. It's Gary Chapman, love, his five languages of love and physical touch. So many people would associate that, oh, that's a man's thing and physical touch because men are, you know, sexually driven. But I have found in the last few years, my love language has turned into physical touch, non-sexual physical touch. 

 

That's my savvy sauce for David just to be... when he's intentional about touching me, giving me a back rub, putting his hand on my leg, giving me a hug. When we're praying together, he's always touching the small of my back. We know the science behind it as well. There's so much science about the power of physical touch. For me, if there's tension between us, all I need is a hug, and it just melts. 

 

In fact, David gets on to me because we go to restaurants or something, and I'll see couples that are very affectionate with each other, and they're touching each other a lot, non-sexually. And I always have to mention it on our way out. I'll go up to the couple, and I'll say something to them. And David gets so embarrassed. He's like, "You're stalking them." And I'm like, "No, it's beautiful." Because I know to me, that's my savvy sauce, is the power of non-sexual affectionate physical touch. [00:53:33] And it's something that's so easy to do. It doesn't take a lot of effort, but it's so powerful. So that's my opinion.

 

Laura Dugger: Great. And it's free.

 

Terri Sumlin: Yes, exactly. It's free, for sure. 

 

Laura Dugger: Well, it is invigorating to get to spend time with such a happily married couple. I'm leaving this chat feeling energized and really excited for date night tonight with my own husband, so I'll get to share with him all that I've learned from the two of you. But thank you so much for so many things, for staying the course and fiercely loving one another and loving our Lord. And thank you for being my guest today.

 

David Sumlin: Yeah, it was a very nice meeting you.

 

Terri Sumlin: Our pleasure. Thank you so much for having us. So enjoyed it.

 

Laura Dugger: Ever since launching this podcast in 2018, our team has tried to release at least one episode every Monday morning. In addition, we also launched a secret bonus episode for paying patrons on the first of every month. But we're changing things up a bit. [00:54:33] 

 

We will continue to release the bonus episode for paying patrons, but on those weeks, when it's the first of the month, that will be the only episode going live, which means next week on Monday, there will not be a brand new episode available for the general public. 

 

If you've benefited from any messages on The Savvy Sauce, we would encourage you to support our work through joining Patreon. You can go to thesavvysauce.com, click on the Patreon tab, click "Join Patreon here", and then follow the prompts so that you can have access to all these bonus episodes and downloadable scripture cards. We hope you join us there. Otherwise, we'll see you back here in two weeks. 

 

One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. [00:55:34] Therefore, we're separated from Him.

 

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

 

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. 

 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [00:56:38] 

 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. 

 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. 

 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?

 

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. 

 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. [00:57:45] I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. 

 

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

207 Cultivating Character in Our Children with Cynthia Yanof

207. Cultivating Character in Our Children with Cynthia Yanof

 

**Transcription Below**

 

Luke 16:10a (NLT) If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones.

 

Questions and Topics We Discuss:

1. As a working mom, what perspective and wisdom can you offer us parents?

2. What are a few core values or prayers that you find to be helpful as a parent?

3. Will you speak to the importance of independent play?

 

Cynthia Yanof is an author, blogger, and host of MESSmerized Podcast. She loves Jesus, her family, foster care, and having as many friends around her as possible. She is married to Mike, and together they have three kids ranging from college age all the way down to first grade. (No, that’s not a typo.)  

 

She’s excited to introduce her debut book, Life is Messy, God is Good.. You can follow her on social media @CynthiaYanof, and the Pardon the Mess podcast is available on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual places.

 

Cynthia strives to be authentic, vulnerable, and full of laughter as she encourages people on the messy roads of life.

 

Connect with Cynthia:

Cynthia's Website

Pardon the Mess Podcast

@cynthiayanof

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor: Sam Leman Eureka

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription**

 

[00:00:00] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

 

[00:00:18] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka. Owned and operated by the Bertschi Family, Sam Leman in Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at LemanGM.com. 

 

Cynthia Yanof is my guest today. She's an author, blogger, and at the time of our recording, she was the host of the Pardon the Mess podcast. But recently, she handed that over to Courtney DeFeo, who may sound familiar. She was also a previous guest on The Savvy Sauce.

 

Now, Cynthia is hosting the Mesmerized podcast. She and her husband, Mike, have kids ranging in age from college to elementary school, and she's going to share some of her parenting wisdom with us now. [00:01:19] 

 

Here's our chat.

 

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Cynthia.

 

Cynthia Yanof: Well, thank you, Laura. I'm so glad to be here.

 

Laura Dugger: Will you just start by sharing a little bit more about your backstory so that we can all get to know you better first?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Sure. I mean, I could go back and back and back. But to keep everyone from being too bored, a long story short is I grew up in a really strong Christian home with a strong faith. I can't think of a time when I didn't know Jesus. I know that's a weird answer. I've been to so many different revivals and places where I felt like I was told, like, you have to know the exact moment. And I don't know if I know the exact moment. But I grew up in a faith tradition where we just weren't growing towards the Lord. So all of my life, that's what I've known. 

 

I went to college and then went to law school, and I met my husband in law school. We dated seven years. Everyone, seven years. Small eternity, for sure. And then we married and have three kiddos now. [00:02:19] I have a daughter that's a sophomore in college. I have a son that's a sophomore in high school. And then I have a kindergartner. So there you have it. All the ages. All the things going on over here.

 

Laura Dugger: Goodness. And just to elaborate on that, I've heard you say before that your kindergartner, it started off with foster care when you met. Is that right?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Yes. Yes. So our kindergartner... and by the way, everyone just take a deep breath. I'm going to just make everyone feel comfortable in where you are in your parenting. We're at kindergarten 2.0. So this is round number two of kindergarten, because apparently I didn't feel the need to help him through the first round and we learned nothing. And so he's precious. He's just one of those that's going to need a little extra boost. So there you have it. This last year we had fun. This year we're going to learn. 

 

And yes, his name is JB. And we were involved in foster care. Happy to always talk about that journey and the story. But the Lord just really spoke that into our hearts. [00:03:20] We never were adoption minded, really. We just went into foster care out of obedience, dragging our ever-living feet. 

 

JB came to us. He was the very first placement we got. He was two months old. We were willing to take older kids and we got a baby and he never left. Like the Lord just literally... that was our child. He's been with us ever since. It was a rough and bumpy road of foster care. Many, many turns where we thought that he would be leaving, but that was just the Lord's goodness. And we adopted him right before he turned two.

 

Laura Dugger: Oh, goodness. Knowing some friends who are going through that process, that's relatively quick for adoption. But still, I mean, you think of two years. Were you foster parents first before you launched your podcast? Or which came first for you?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Well, it's interesting because I was a lawyer for several years. A mediocre lawyer at best. I always like to say it was just not where the Lord was calling me. [00:04:21] So having achievement syndrome and always needing to achieve. 

I went to law school and had a good law firm job and just at some point, I'm like, "This is just not my... I just feel like there's more. I don't know what it is, but this is not..." Just that holy discontent if I can use church words. That feeling of like, huh, what is it you have for me, Lord?

 

And so sitting on like the 30th floor of a downtown Dallas law firm, looking out a window, I just kind of put my palms up and I'm like, "Okay, Lord, like I don't even know what this means, but whatever it is that you have for me, whatever you created me to do, that's where I want to be." 

 

And just within, you know, six months to a year, we knew foster care. That was something the Lord wanted us to do. I ended up stopping my practice of law to be home and start working through the foster care process. And then just that faithful step of obedience, I feel like then the Lord opened this next door with a ministry that asked me to come work with them, which I was completely unqualified. [00:05:23] And in a lot of ways, probably overqualified for what I did.

 

And that led to writing and then podcasting and just Lord... just only things the Lord could open and close those doors and the things that He had for me. So, yeah, foster care was kind of that first diving-off point that led to all the other things that I now do.

 

Laura Dugger: Wow. Isn't that interesting just to even hear it so succinctly put where He’s blessed your obedience? And really you were faithful in the small things and then He gave you more to stewards. So that's an awesome story. 

 

I'm remembering... was it something humorous for the way that you and your husband specifically met at law school or will you share that story with us too?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Yes. Yes. And I'm going to step back and say one thing and I'll tell you that. But yes, in terms of obedience. But I want to be very clear I'm about as normal and every day is anybody listening in terms of following God. Like on any given day I'm like, yes, I'm going to do this. And the next minute I'm like, "No, that's not in my plan. That seems hard. Foster care seems like that's what spiritual people do." [00:06:30] I'm not sure that's us. Not our thing."

 

And so we did take that step. Like we did what we were called to do. I went into it scared, like super scared of what it would do to our family, what would that mean for our biological kids, what would that mean for our marriage, our finances? I was scared going in. And I came out of foster care, scared of who we would be if we hadn't done it. Because you are changed people when you do the things the Lord calls you to do. And those very, very hardest places where the Lord changes you and changes your family.

 

I just like to say that it's hard and foster care is our story, but I think God has a story that He's writing in all of us. And if we will just take those next steps, whether it's with an obedient heart or you're just dragging your feet, like we were, the Lord is faithful in that. 

 

That's off-subject from what you asked me, Laura, but I start with that. But to answer your question with my sweet husband, yes, we met in law school. I was walking in the parking lot and he catcalled me. Like that whew whew. [00:07:30] I can't whistle, but you know that catcall. 

 

And I was like, "What just happened? Are we serious here? Because you know... I was like, whatever, how old are you when you get out of college? Like 20 or 21 or whatever and in law school. And I was real serious about myself at that point in life. I was like, "Here I go. Watch me, world. I'm at law school. I'm going to do this." When he catcalled me, I'm like, "I don't even know what to say of that." 

 

So we kind of joke about it. My husband played college baseball and so in law school he'd just come off of that and had a lot of confidence. So we always laugh and he's like, "Well, it worked." I'm like, "Kind of." But yes, we dated through law school and then yeah, seven years and got married and here we are.

 

Laura Dugger: That's amazing. I've heard you say before that a mentor told you "live in such a way that God can bless your life". I just love that encouragement. So will you expound upon how you've applied this?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Yeah. You know, that was advice for many years. I'm like, "What does that even mean?" Sometimes people say things and, or I underline it in a book or I'm like, I take a sermon note on that. And I'm like, actually, I don't know what that means. How do I do that? [00:08:35] 

 

I've just watched, and this is something I think Mike and I talked to our kids a lot about, but the Lord, we know scripturally like His eyes are roaming the earth looking for those who are fully devoted to Him. He's looking for people that are devoted to Him that are wanting to do the things that He wants to do that have kingdom purposes. But it's really hard for him to use us and do those things when we aren't devoted to Him, when we aren't living a life that He can bless. 

 

That's not saying a perfect life. None of us are living a perfect life. But if we can't live in repentance and confession and, and just slowing down, asking the questions, surrounding ourselves by people who are following the Lord, surrounding ourselves by people who are pointing us back to Him. Those are the places where I think we've got to be intentional. And when we are, then I think the Lord can bless that. 

 

So it's not this, like I've got to clean up my act in order for God to want to use me. I mean, gosh, can any of us clean up our act enough? No. But if we can step back and prioritize the things He prioritizes, family, loving people well, God's word, spending time with Him, doing those things, if we try to just take those next right steps, it's a game changer. [00:09:44] And in that, I think like you said earlier, He blesses obedience. The smallest step of obedience I feel like the Lord will bless. 

 

Now here's the catch, right? Is His blessing what we call blessing always? No. I like blessing that looks like maybe accolades or recognition or whatever the world might call blessing. And really God's blessing is not, not typically that. 

 

So I love those verses that talk about when the desires of your heart, and when you're pursuing God and Psalms talks about this, then He gives you the desires of your heart. And those desires change. And when you live a life God can bless, He will fill you with desires that he will give you. Like foster care. Like adoption. Like whatever those things are, whatever He's calling you into. And it's a game changer. So, yeah, living a life God can bless is as simple as just doing the things we all know to do, but just being faithful in those things that point us towards Jesus. [00:10:43] 

 

Laura Dugger: You just had such a drastic career change. So let's zero in on your career first and then I'd love to ask you more about parenting eventually too. But you shared kind of how you came into podcasting, but how do you get such amazing guests? I'm thinking like Mark Batterson and what are a few of your all-time favorite lessons that your guests have taught you?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Oh my gosh. You know, I don't even know how we've gotten incredible guests. I don't even know how we podcast. You, Laura, even know from starting the one that we're taping right now, like I'm the least technologically savvy person you've ever met. And so it's just comical. 

 

When I was in this ministry and they were talking about starting a podcast, they're like, "Do you want to do it?" I was like, "No, what would I possibly know about a podcast?" But I figured out pretty quickly that a podcast is like a deposition where you ask a lot of questions and you listen and then you ask follow-up questions. And I knew how to do a deposition because I had been a lawyer for so many years. So I was like, okay, "I can do that." [00:11:44] 

 

And just a reminder that nothing's wasted with God. He can take even the places where... I definitely don't feel like I was in God's calling and my years as a lawyer. That doesn't mean I was outside of what He could use, but it was just funny that He took that. And I took so many depositions and now He uses that for podcasting. 

 

So we fast forward. I remember like, how are we going to get guests? Who's this going to be? It didn't matter to me that they were super famous. I just wanted people that could speak truth. And over the years, the Lord has just allowed us to talk to everyone. Even this week I got to chat with Beth Moore and yes, Mark Batterson. He's one of my very favorites. And Priscilla Shire and Graham Lotz and I could go on and on. Just cool people.

 

To answer your question though, some of my favorites, people ask me that question a lot. I think Sally Lloyd-Jones was one of my favorites because she said something that really impacted me. She's an author, children's Bible, all kinds of things. [00:12:43] But she talked about success and our definition of success and making sure that we always define success by God's definition of success.

 

And I thought for me, for achievement-oriented person, that was just such a great word. Of course, I think it resonated with all the... people that will say podcast, but I thought, you know what? That's a good word, not only for myself but in my parenting. Like what is going to be success in our house? Are we defining it by what the world calls success or what I, as a mom, call success for my kids? Or am I lining that up with what God would call a success for my kids? And am I asking him to find success? That was one that's really stuck with me. 

 

Another one. I got to interview David Green who founded Hobby Lobby and just hearing his background. I won't go into all of that. You know, raised poor and not good in school and all the things he did and how his parents were faithful in raising him in the small things. They had no idea he would be called the biblical billionaire one day. But they were faithful in the small things in parenting him, and look who he is now. [00:13:45] He was another favorite. And then can I give you one more Laura?

 

Laura Dugger: Oh, please do.

 

Cynthia Yanof: Okay. Then the third one, that's one of my very favorites ever. No one's ever heard of him, but he's been on my podcast a couple of times. His name is Darren Kinder. He lives in my area kind of close in Dallas and he worked for the Secret Service. 

 

He was working Secret Service on 9/11 in New York City. He was a building over from the first tower that fell. You'll just have to listen to the story. He's in the process of writing books. So this is exciting too. So you can read about it.

 

But he just basically says that he ended up, they were that morning, the Secret Service and these clean suits getting ready to do their duties, and that first plane hit and they knew. So he and two other guys ran out and worked all day trying to just put out fires and help people.

 

At the end of the day, you can imagine what he looked like. He's like, you know, black and soot all over him and his shoes were burned onto his feet and he's bleeding. [00:14:47] And he goes back where the secret service was meeting and he walks in and he sees a room and two-thirds of the people in that room were still in those clean, perfect suits from the morning. And one of them seeing what he looked like, said like, "Where have you been?" And Darren Kinder said back to them, "No, you guys, where have you been?" 

 

His testimony is just that like, "I'm not going to heaven with a clean suit, just not going to do it." And so he has really impacted me at this whole idea of like, we got to get dirty. We got to get out there. We've got to do the hard things in life. And we don't want to get to heaven in a clean suit. So I would say that's probably one of the most profound stories of faith that I've ever heard on my podcast. It's really changed me.

 

Laura Dugger: And now a brief message from our sponsor.

 

[00:15:33] <music> 

 

Sponsor: Sam Leman Chevrolet in Eureka has been owned and operated by the Bertschi Family for over 25 years. A lot has changed in the car business since Sam and Stephen's grandfather, Sam Leman, opened his first Chevrolet dealership over 55 years ago. If you visit their dealership today though, you'll find that not everything has changed. They still operate their dealership like their grandfather did with honesty and integrity. 

 

Sam and Stephen understand that you have many different choices and where you buy or service your vehicle. This is why they do everything they can to make the car-buying process as easy and hassle-free as possible. They are thankful for the many lasting friendships that began with a simple "Welcome to Sam Lemans". Their customers keep coming back because they experience something different.

 

I've known Sam and Stephen and their wives my entire life, and I can vouch for their character and integrity, which makes it easy to highly recommend you check them out today. Your car buying process doesn't have to be something you dread. So come see for yourself at Sam Leman Chevrolet in Eureka. Sam and Stephen would love to see you, and they appreciate your business. 

 

Learn more at their website, LemanEureka.com, or visit them on Facebook by searching for "Sam Leman Eureka". You can also call them at (309)-467-2351. Thanks for your sponsorship. 

 

[00:16:54] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: With this work that we get to do, there are lots of books that we can read to prepare for interviews. So I'd love to hear some of your top, maybe your top five favorite books list.

 

Cynthia Yanof: Okay. I don't love to read. And I think it's because of law school. I think law school ruined me because it was so much reading and so intensive that it kind of stole the joy of reading to me. Now, because I podcast a lot, I read a lot to prepare for podcasts. 

 

So instead of my five favorite books, I'm just going to tell you my favorite authors, because I read almost anything they have. And these are the ones that I don't have to really bear down and be like, come on, you need to read more. So here's my five favorite authors, pretty much. 

 

Number one is Max Lucado. Anything he writes I love. He's been on Pardon the Mess, my podcast several times, and I just adore him. 

 

Mark Batterson. It's funny you brought that up. Anything he writes, I love. I just find him to be just amazing. In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day is one of his books. It's my very favorite and maybe impacted my faith. [00:18:03] Maybe one of the books, aside from the Bible, obviously the most has impacted my faith. 

 

Number three, I'm getting a little shallower now, but I'm ready. Grisham. I love Grisham's stuff because it taps back into that law side of me. I don't endorse the theology always, but I do think he tells a great story and I love storytelling. 

 

And then just for fun stuff, I love Melanie Shankle. She's hilarious. I just think she loves the Lord and she's got a funny way of putting things that we're all thinking. 

 

And then the last one is actually a book. And I'm just saying this right now because it's a book that has impacted, again, my faith journey, and that is If You Want to Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat by Ortberg. That's just a specific book that I just reread when I was sick a couple weeks ago, but that whole idea of if you want to do the big things, you've got to get on the boat. And so what's your boat? And he talks a lot about how to figure out what are you hanging on to? What are you clinging to? What's your boat? Is it your finances? Is it your marriage? Is it popularity, status? [00:19:04] 

 

So that's one that's really impacted me too. There you go on books, or maybe more accurately, authors I love.

 

Laura Dugger: That's awesome. What a great list. Thank you. You've planted some ideas for maybe some of my next reads. Cynthia, as a working mom, what perspective and wisdom can you offer to any of us parents listening?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting. I'm going to be practical first, and then I'm going to give you a spiritual answer too. But I've worked full time as a mom, practicing law, doing some of that, and pretty big hours, pretty big responsibility. I've worked no time, like literally stayed home with my kids and not worked at all. And I've worked part-time. So I've kind of done every side of the gamut on working. I think it's very individual what works for you. And there's no guilt in whatever that looks like. 

 

Some of us need to do it financially. And if that's where we are, that's great, then we're going to do it and do it well. [00:20:03] Some of us need to do it just because that's how we keep our sanity. And I figured that out about me. I'm not good if I don't work in some capacity, because then I start trying to micromanage my home in a way that's not healthy for anybody here. So working for me is a great outlet. I've just seen the Lord bless that. And I don't mean financially or numbers or platform or anything. I just bless the things that I've been involved with. And I've just been so grateful to see Him in the middle of that.

 

And just because what I do is faith-based, it doesn't need to be that for everyone. I've seen that in my husband's work. He's an attorney still. He also coaches and just the ministry the Lord's given him and that.

 

So I would just say, one, find what works for you and what works for your family and your finances, whatever, and then just live real well in that. Like, do it well and love the Lord in it. Grass is always greener. So I think I've learned that over the years. I've always thought, Oh, man, if I could only stay home. And then I stayed home like, Ooh, if I could only have a job and had some..." Just be content where the Lord has you. [00:21:05] 

 

And then I would say, spiritually speaking, I heard Anne Graham Lotz speak one time, who's Billy Graham's daughter, and she said that as believers, just be faithful in your highest place of influence. If everybody would be faithful in their highest place of influence, then our world would be changed. 

 

I would just encourage you, if your highest place of influence is at home with your kids, which is a great, huge place of influence, because again, we don't know who we're raising, then treat it as that and make it your job and do it the best of your ability and ask the Lord into that. If your highest place of influence is on the PTA board, well, that's great. I mean, love people well. Point people to the Lord in whatever ways you can appropriately do that. Stop conversations that don't need to happen and be about the things that God's about.

 

If your highest place of influence is your CPA or an attorney or whatever that may be, a teacher, and you've got all these lives that you're impacting each day, just do that well and ask the Lord, what does that look like? How can I do this better? [00:22:06] For the period of time you have me here, I want to be faithful in that highest place of influence. I think the rest takes care of itself after that. I think Anne Graham Lotz is right on that.

 

Laura Dugger: Goodness, I love it. I'm just soaking up all your wisdom. This is so great. What are a few core values or prayers that you find to be helpful as a parent?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I've been speaking a lot this year and I've been talking about the three lies to not believe in 2023. Three lies to get rid of in 2023. I think one of them is that I'm going to be judged by the success or failure of my kids. I think that's a lie. We believe that the success or failure of our kids determines kind of where we are in life.

 

I've realized that's a problem because who gets to define success and who gets to define failure, right? Like, are we going by the world standard or like we said earlier, like by God's standard? And I've learned having just sent a kid to college, what the world calls success means that you're good on paper. You're a great student. You're a great athlete. You've done all these things. [00:23:09]  You've worked some… all these things. 

 

And I look at all the expectations, even just getting a kid in college, what the world would say is success and I think about that and I'm like, Was I all those things growing up? Surely not. I wasn't a great student. I wasn't motivated. Sure wasn't a good athlete. Can barely walk today. 

 

But then I look at failures and some of the things that would probably be perceived as a failure in the midst of those very failures is where I've seen God create me and my family and turn us into things He wants us to be, where we've seen him and known him in places that maybe a world would call failure. 

 

Laura, can I tell a quick story about a failure with one of my kids? 

 

Laura Dugger: Always. 

 

Cynthia Yanof: Yeah. Thank you. My son, Brett, though, this last year played football and he was hoping to play more varsity and he ended up playing more JV than varsity football. Silly example, right? But he was discouraged and the car rides home got a little quieter. And by the end of the season, we were all done. Like we're over it. 

 

At the end of the season, he felt like it was kind of a failure. [00:24:09] He's a sophomore and most of his friends got to play quite a bit of varsity and he would dress out and be up there ready to go and just didn't get called in. So the end of the year, awards banquet came, the ceremony and I was like, "Oh, do we really have to go? Like, have we not celebrated this enough? All these kids are awesome. I'm glad they've had a great year. But like, do we have to sit through this anymore?"

 

But my husband, thankfully, he's fabulous. And Mike's like, "No, you're going and you're going to be happy about it." So I went. And I even told a friend, I'm like, "Wake me up if I doze off." I was ridiculous. So we get there and at the end, they called out all the names. And they've watched the highlight videos. They've handed out all the awards. They say, "Hey, well, Brett Yanof, come up here." My son. And I'm thinking like, "Why is the varsity coach calling it my son? Like we got nothing to offer at the awards ceremony."

 

And he started talking about the scout team and he gave him this plaque. I don't know if you're familiar with the scout team, but basically the scout team, those are the kids that get the real team ready for battle. They learn all the plays of the other team. [00:25:08] They do the same blood, sweat, tears. They go through all the same endurance and trials and whatever but when Friday night comes, they're not on the field. 

 

But as he's talking about this and he's giving my son this MVP of the scout team award, I realized in that moment that the coach knew something I needed to know. He was taking and naming a perceived failure, he was naming it a success. And what I couldn't see was that just because Brett's name wasn't called on loudspeaker doesn't mean his contribution didn't count. And just because he wasn't the head on the varsity or he didn't do the things that got recognition doesn't mean that he wasn't a part of the team, that it wasn't valued.

 

And what I think I've realized in parenting is just that we've got to be really careful letting success and failure be defined by things that the world is defining as success and failure. As parents, we got to be willing to step out there and say, listen, I'm going to start naming scout team in my house. And I'm going to say that even though my kid got a C on the test, he studied as hard as he could and that's okay. And just because my kiddo didn't get invited to the party that everybody's at, we're at home and they're learning character values on the couch with us and we're going to name that a success. [00:26:14] 

 

And I would say in all those places where the world's going to call something a failure, where our kids are going to call something a failure, where I as a mom want to say, gosh, this looks like a failure, I'm going to start naming it scout team and I'm going to start naming it success because I know how God works and I know in the very midst of what the world would call a failure, he can call that a success. And He's turning us into, and he's turning my kids into people that He wants them to be. And if that comes at the cost of something that looks like it's a failure, then that's something we're going to be willing to take in this house.

 

I think that's one of the things in parenting that I'm really learning with my kids. Like I'm not going to be defined by success and failure and I'm not going to let my kids be defined by the world's version of success and failure, but I'm going to rename it.

 

Laura Dugger: And how many times do we get this backwards in parenting? It makes me think of the Bible that so often the lessons, especially that Jesus taught are so counterintuitive where we know He flips everything expected kind of upside down. [00:27:15] So do you have any specific Bible stories that have fueled your parenting?

 

Cynthia Yanof: I really like to think of all the Old Testament, I'm going to assess the Old Testament, but I like to think about Abraham and just a guy who... I mean, they were starting with infertility and the Lord said, "You're going to be a father of nations." Like, what does that even mean? What does that look like? 

 

And so I studied that a lot. And I think like all the things that I can't see yet, God's already working in my heart. He's already calling me to these next steps to move, you know, pick up your family, go to the next place is what He said to Abraham. And He was faithful and He did. And he said, yes, like, yes. Okay, let's go and do it. 

 

I think that impacts me. Really all the stories in the Old Testament. I think of Noah and building an ark before he really knew what rain was, but it was just a yes, maybe a hesitant yes, maybe a dragging his feet yes, but it was still a yes. And he did that and he did it well. 

 

I go through story after story in the Old Testament. I think what I love the most about it is that you can see the full picture of what God was doing. [00:28:17] Even with David. I mean, he's out with the sheep when they come for the anointment. They're looking at all his brothers. He's not even invited to the beauty pageant. But he gets anointed and it's still years and years of him being chased by Saul and not getting that anointment. 

 

But we see the end picture and we see now because we can look at the full picture of these people's stories. So the Abrahams, the Noahs, the Jonahs, all these people, we can see the full picture of what God was doing. You just trust Him in that small step. And I think that impacts me because the small stuff, one step of obedience at a time leads to the big things that God's doing. We may see it this side of eternity, we may not, but that doesn't mean it's not worthy. 

 

And so I'm just encouraged I think. I would say when people ask me, like, you know, I'm discouraged or I don't know what God's doing, I'm like, Go read the Old Testament. Go find a person and learn all you can learn about that person. David's always a great one. I love David. 

 

But go find out all you can about him and realize like you're in a segment of life where you're just seeing a little glimpse of the picture. [00:29:17] But you can go back and look at these people and you can see beginning to end their questions, their doubts, where it didn't make sense, why would God allow this to happen, and then you can see how it all plays out. I think that's important. And it encourages me. 

 

And I just want to encourage your listeners that just realize that at any point in time, God could have put us on earth, right? From Adam and Eve all the way to the second coming. At any point, God could have chosen for us to be here on earth. And He could have chosen us to be in any families, any communities and any workplaces, right? But He chose us for now. This is our time in this place with these families, with these kids, with our neighbors, right? And if He did that, He's going to be faithful. 

 

And it may not look like it in a minute. You may not understand it in the moment. You may not be able to see what He's doing. But if you can go back and just steal a little bit of the faith that you can see in the Old Testament, just take a little bit from that and say, okay, like, listen, Abraham didn't know what he was doing when he's picking up and moving, and Noah didn't know when he started building an arc, and David didn't really understand when he was anointed, but he's still hanging out with sheep. [00:30:15] Like they didn't understand, but we now know what God was doing towards His bigger purposes. Take that and put it into your life and know that God's just as intentional now. He's the same yesterday, today, and forever. And if that's the case, He's doing the same things in your life. It's going to look different. But He's still doing it. And that's important. So that would be my encouragement. I could point to you a thousand stories, but I would just say always for me, go to the Old Testament if you're really questioning it.

 

Laura Dugger: Who is someone you love? Who could use encouragement today? With that person in mind, will you think back to all The Savvy Sauce podcasts and articles available and choose one to share with them right now? Or if you want to love and encourage our team, we invite you to join Patreon. You can put your love of The Savvy Sauce into action by visiting TheSavvySauce.com, clicking on the Patreon tab, then following the prompts under "Join Patreon here". We can't wait for you to have access to all the bonus features that we offer our patrons. Thanks for your support. [00:31:18] 

 

We're often told to spend more and more time with our children, but you add an interesting perspective on letting our kids also practice being alone so that someday they can stand alone. Will you speak to that and kind of the importance, even when they're younger, of independent play?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Yeah. I could say two things about that. I one time saw on social media a mom had posted a picture of her son at the meet at the poll day. You know, it's like the beginning of school where the Christian kids get together and come to the flagpole and they pray together. 

 

And this mom had posted a picture a teacher sent her of her son standing by himself at the pole holding his Bible. Literally nobody there with him. But you could see in the background all these kids walking around and all this. And I saw that, I'm like, That's the kind of kids I want us to raise. It's like, how do you raise that kid that's going to go stand there by themselves and their faith? 

 

Because we live in a culture that is so divided economically and politically and socially and racially. Like on every level we're so divided. [00:32:22] And so if we want kids that are going to stand up for their faith, it's getting harder and harder to do that in this country and all countries, but even in the United States where it would have been in the past, it's not popular to stand up for your faith and stand up for the Lord. So how do we raise these kids? 

 

I feel like the Lord just laid out my heart over the years that like, if we want to raise kids that can stand alone, then we've got to let them. And so we can't be the parents that are going to run down to the school every time they don't get in the right class, or we're going to go talk to the coach because they didn't get enough play time or we're going to, whatever those things are. Throw another party to compete with the party they didn't get invited to. We're going to throw a better party. Like all the things that we're so tempted to do. We got to let them stand alone.

 

In terms of just letting them play alone and independent play when they're little, I think about a day when I took my youngest to the playground and I was just watching these moms and I'm like, Gosh, there's so much to learn from the playground. I wish I would have known. I wish somebody would have told me. [00:33:21] 

 

And there's this mom who was like trying to get her kid to go play with everybody else, like all the other kids and he just wouldn't have it. He's playing by himself. And she was trying to get him back into the mix on the playground. And I get it, man. There's nothing that sends me reeling like taking my kids to a social event and I think they're going to be the next outcast because they're over by themselves. They're not engaging. And so I get what she was trying to do.

 

But in that moment, I just realized like, Listen, if we want kids that are going to stand alone, we got to let them. And sometimes that's just how the Lord creates them. And there's places where they've got to be able to do that. And independent play being by themselves, being comfortable by themselves, it's a good place to start. 

 

So just practically speaking with my third kid, yeah. So we spend time even to do fun things. We do all that. But I'm just not going to live under the guilt of I'm not sitting down and doing pretend play all the time, or I don't have a playdate for every single Friday afternoon, or... Because he's learning to play alone and we're just going to set him up to stand alone. And do I think it's important to be social? Yes. I'm not against that, obviously. 

 

I want him to have friends. [00:34:20] I want him to have Godly friends. That's why I pray over him. But at the same time, if we're going to raise kids who can stand alone in their faith and do the things they're called to do and go to things like foster care or whatever it is that maybe other people aren't doing around you, then let's start now by normalizing that and saying, it's okay. Like we're alone and that's okay. So that's my encouragement. Like if you want to raise kids who can stand alone, let them. And it's hard to do, man. I have to kick myself daily and be like, no, let them stand alone. It's okay. But it's worth it.

 

Laura Dugger: Well, and also in your situation, Cynthia, you do get to parent your youngest with that bit of an age gap from your older children. So I'd love to hear some lessons learned... both maybe a few examples of what you would go back and let go of when you were doing parenting round one and then also some specific things that you're so glad you did because now you're getting to see the fruit.

 

Cynthia Yanof: I think maybe one of the biggest examples I can give you is a way I didn't do it right. If I'm honest, which is most often what I talk about on my podcast, let me tell you another way I've gotten it wrong. [00:35:28] But here's one for me, I think. 

 

I just had it in my mind how things were supposed to look for my kids. I think we all do. I think that's natural. Like this is how it's supposed to go. And so we're going to be, you know, good at this and we're going to be involved in that. I just had this in my mind. So the minute that it went off script, like I was derailed by that. 

 

I use example a lot with my son, my poor high school son's getting picked on today. I do have other kids we can pick on by the way, but this is the one I'll tell the story about him. When he was in kindergarten I got a call from his kindergarten teacher that he was going to be put in the reading club. And I was like, The reading club? What's that?" And she's like, "Well, you know, it's for kids that are behind and they're not reading well and so we are trying to catch them up. So we're going to pull them out and he'll meet with a reading specialist each day."

 

And so you would think like, Laura, that's like, "Okay, no big deal." Like a normal parent, you guys would just get off the phone and be like, "Great." Not this mom. I got the phone and I was like, "Oh, this is it. This is like the phone call. This is the one where it starts the ball rolling. [00:36:27] He's not going to be successful in school. He's not going to make it through high school. He'll never get to college and he'll never have a job. I guess we just need to make him comfortable.

 

Literally I'm going down this path of insanity over the reading club. And the interesting thing about it is I was dreading it. I'm like, how am I going to tell him? Like I'm going to pick him up from school and tell him like, Hey, it's almost the end here. You know, bad things are coming your way. You're in a reading club. So I'm like going through these tears in my eyes, like a maniac. 

 

And I get there and he comes bopping out of school. So happy. And he gets in the car and he's like, "Mom, best news ever. I got picked for the reading club today." And I was like, "Oh, tell me about that." And as he starts telling me, it's obvious the teachers talk to him. And he's like, "You know, I get to go with two or three of my friends from the class and we're all going to go meet with this..." the teacher's name. And he's like, "And everyone loves her. And she already met with us and said we can bring our own books and we get to miss the boring part of class." Like he was so excited. 

 

And I couldn't help but think, Laura, I was like, well, thank goodness his teacher got to him before I got to him. [00:37:26] I was doom and gloom over here about this whole thing. But what I was hearing in that moment, nobody was saying it, but what I was hearing was that he's broken. Like he's broken. Like he can't do the things they're supposed to be. It isn't on script. And you know what I've learned is that... Now he's in high school. And by the way, he can read. He reads just fine. He does great. 

 

But I learned in those moments that the Lord was actually going to start breaking him. And I'm going to tell you something with your audience and people listening and with kids, you will have learning differences. And this is one of those points where we realized there was something that we needed to be exploring. There was something in the learning. But what I found out is I felt like it was going to be the Lord. Well, I felt like the world was going to say he was broken, that he didn't meet expectations. 

 

And what the Lord was actually doing was breaking him of pride and self-sufficiency. And he's made him the most kind and compassionate hardworking person you've ever met. I mean, everywhere he goes, people tell us how hardworking he is. Like there's no ego about him because he's had to work hard every day of his life in school. Just didn't come easily for him. [00:38:29] 

 

And you know, the thing that scares me the most about that is given the opportunity, I would have taken all of what God was doing in his life, all that God's creating him to be. I would have stripped that from him because I didn't want him to have to walk a different road. I didn't want him to have the harder road. I would have taken all that away, but yet God was using that. And now I'm getting glimpses of that. That's who God's creating him to be hardworking, kind, empathetic to other people. Thank goodness. 

 

And so I look at that and I would just say like, and parenting there's this big gap in my kids. And I look at my youngest now and I'm like, throw away the script. Like my youngest, I can already tell we're going to have some learning stuff to work through. And I don't know that he's going to have a million friends and maybe he's just gonna have a friend or two or three friends. And that's great. That's more than enough. There doesn't have to be a script on what it's supposed to look like.

 

And very often if we are trying to make them follow a script and we want them on the right select team and I'm air quoting, we want them in the right friend group, all those things, we're stripping away what God's doing in their life and what He has for them. [00:39:33] 

 

I think I've just learned to sit back and let God do what He's going to do in their lives and pray. Oh my gosh, pray over your kids. And pray for yourself that you can step out of the places where you want to be right in the middle of it, manipulating, maneuvering it, all those places. And so I said, that's one of my biggest lessons I think I've learned that I would do differently.

 

In terms of something I would do the same, I guess I would say that is kind of stayed from the top to the bottom with my kids. My daughter who's in college now, she's hilarious. I mean, he's firstborn girl. Let's shout out to all of them, if you've got firstborn girls. I mean they can pretty much run a small nation. So I was real proud of her all along. She was easy. She fit the mold. 

 

I would say what we did right with Kate, we over-parented her. That was wrong. But what we did right is we've always laughed. Like we've just made our house. We've tried to make it fun and humorous and low-key. We've stayed up late when we probably should be in bed and we've gone and gotten snow cones when you probably shouldn't have been doing that. [00:40:30] And like, we've just always tried to be fun and enjoy our kids and their company and like get rid of all the strict, you know, "well it's because I'm the parent". We just really tried to enjoy them. Are we disciplinarians? Yes. But we pick our battles.

 

Someone told me a long time ago, like, listen, if it's our personality, don't parent that, don't discipline that. Just when it's character. So that's what we've tried to do with her. We've laughed a lot.

 

And if there's character issues, like we are all on it, we dive in and we figure them out and we pray over them and we discipline them. For the rest of it when it's personality and it just bugs me and it's not things that are really going to impact the long term, then we let it go. And we just try to laugh and have fun. 

 

We sit with our son now, you know, he's in high school and it's just fun. And then our youngest, I'm just having to learn to laugh, even though some things I like," Oh my gosh, this is driving me crazy." But I would say that's what I would do again. I'd say, keep doing, have fun, laugh at the small things. 

 

If it's not going to matter in a year, then don't make it a huge deal today. So many battles that we fight, like it's just not going to matter in the long run. So let it go. [00:41:33] So those are my thoughts, as I like to say, as the oldest mom in the playground, raising a kindergartner again.

 

Laura Dugger: I've also heard you share something that's always stuck with me. You said in your home that you tried to build up what or who others are tearing down. So can you also give an example of that?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Yeah. I think part of it for me is just trying to teach our kids like you're going to be about something, right? Your home is going to be about something. So you might as well call it what you want it to be about and focus that. If not, it's going to be about things you don't want it to be about. 

 

So for us, it was inclusiveness and bringing other people along and making room for others at our table. I mean that metaphorically and literally. But like I wanted our house to be a safe place and I wanted the kids that maybe weren't invited to other places to be able to come here or the kids that people are saying, "Ooh, they're a bad influence." Well, yeah, so are mine on any given day. Right? So I wanted this to be a place where there's a seat at the table for everyone. [00:42:32] 

 

And so we were intentional on that in a lot of ways and telling our kids, like you need to include others and bring them along. In a lot of ways it just kind of happened. So I think maybe an example though, to answer your question recently of something that comes to mind is, and it wasn't in the last year or two, but my son... I was asking about a kid, a certain kid, and he's like, "I don't know. He's not really my people. It's kind of different." And I said, I mean, maybe he said strange. I don't remember. I'm not trying to put words into my son's mouth. But clearly it was not something he was super, super fond of... personally was fond of.

 

Finally, I had an opportunity to spend a little time with this kid, and I realized this kid's got some learning stuff going on, maybe some emotional stuff going on. Like I could just kind of tell. And so I went back and said to my son, I'm like, "You know what? I want you to get curious about people. Instead of just writing them off and saying like, you know, Oh, that's not my people, instead, why don't you get curious and figure it out?" And I said, "I think there's something going on with this kiddo. Let's be empathetic to that." So through that, my son has gotten to know him and really likes him. He just needed to dig a little bit deeper. [00:43:35] 

 

I mean, that's just a silly example, but ways of just, you know, just trying to do the harder things with our kids, right? Do the hard and the right things. And I think it pays dividends. I think it does for our own families, but more importantly for other people that we need to be loving. If we're called to love our neighbors, let's do that, and let's do it intentionally.

 

I would encourage you, figure out what you want to be about. For us, inclusivity was important. We wanted to bring other people along. But whatever your thing is, just know what that is and kind of make it something that you're striving forward with your kids or family every day.

 

Laura Dugger: That just reminds me of one of my favorite quotes of yours. When you said, "Bring people in. The kindest, most gospel-driven thing you can do on a given day is to include other people to walk the road with them. That's what heaven will look like."

 

Cynthia Yanof: I mean, I think, gosh, it's just one of those things as you read it, I'm like, that's so good. Who said that? I mean, not to affirm myself, but like, right, isn't that the gospel? [00:44:35] And yet it's so hard to live out. Even having written that somewhere or said it or wherever you saw that, like every day I'm like, I have to remind myself. Because here's the deal. Like, I just want to be with my friends. I want to be with people that look like me and act like me and say the things that I say and affirm me and all those. That's great. But like, what about all the others that really... They really need us to love them well. And so how do we do that? 

 

One of the hardest things you'll ever learn to do in parenting is to forgive the kids who hurt your kids. That's walking the road with them. That's inviting them in. That's saying, I realize that you have been really nasty to my kid or you didn't invite him to whatever, but we're still going to love you. And we're going to dig a little deeper and not get caught up in this whole, well, you know, there's just kids I don't want my kids around. 

 

Well, I get that. Right. But I just feel like we've got a God that's big enough to overcome some of those influences. That's not to say that I invite everyone just to speak into my kids and beat into them. No, I'm protective. We have people surrounding our kids that are following the Lord. [00:45:35] But because we do that, we can allow others to be a part of what we do. So I would just encourage us all, I'm encouraging myself on any given day, you know, little things, birthday parties. 

 

If your kid gives you 10 names, just say, "Listen, we have room for 15. Invite five kids that never would think they would be invited and have them over." Invite people over for dinner that are not your friends. Maybe the one that rubbed you wrong at the last football game or whatever it is. Get to know people, encourage them, bring them along.

 

I think that is sometimes, you know, we think we've got to do these huge things, but sometimes yeah, the most God-honoring thing we can do on any given day is just to love people well and include them.

 

Laura Dugger: And I just got goosebumps as you were sharing that as I often do, and I feel like it's kind of a conviction from the Lord, because that sounds like Jesus. You have so much more to offer. Where would you like to direct us to go after this conversation so that we can continue learning from you?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Well, you're sweet. You have so much to offer you guys. And I'm just so thankful to even have a chance to chat with you. [00:46:36] 

 

If you want to catch up with me, follow me on social. It's under my name, Cynthia Yanof. You'll be so disappointed, but I want you to come anyway. There's nobody worse at social than me. And so there's that. But I would love for you to follow me. You can message me. I'll pray for you, pray for your family. If you have questions, I'll try to answer. I have a website, CynthiaYanof.com, but really catch me on social, Cynthia Yanof.

 

Laura Dugger: And as always, we will link to all of that in the show notes for today's episode. Cynthia, you may know we are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?

 

Cynthia Yanof: Well, I love this question, Laura. This is like genius. It's funny because people have told me for years, they're like, "You need a question at the end of your podcast that you ask everyone. I've gotten a question and you're just so good. So I'm envious. But I was thinking about this and I love practical. Like you're saying these practical habits, something that can be replicated. [00:47:37] 

 

I was really trying to think through that. And so on my desk sitting here, here's what I've got for you. I have these stones. Some are in the shape of a heart and some of them are just square. And one of them says "remember", and one of them says "love". And I collect these stones and I use them as stones of remembrance.

 

If you'll remember in the Old Testament, they use stones of remembrance. They would build an altar after the Lord did something specifically like crossed over a dry river, right? They would take these stones and build an altar so they'd never forget the amazing thing the Lord had done.

 

The stones of remembrance for me are my reminders of the things God has done. So what I do is I have some physical stones that represent things like the day that the judge ruled against all odds. He ruled in favor of JB becoming our son. I have a stone of remembrance of the date on it. 

 

I have stones of remembrance that aren't actual stones. They're calendars. Like calendar reminders of things like, you know, when the Lord provided a job or when the Lord helped with a financial need of some sort, or He provided a ministry opportunity or these different things in a stone of remembrance. Yes. [00:48:45] 

 

Sometimes I have literal stones and I love those, but there are also other things, whether that's a bookmark or something in my Bible that's written out, or like I said, a calendar reminder. But I think it's really important to remember, remember God's faithfulness because life is really hard and there are so many unknowns and there are so many things that come along that you're like, Oh my gosh, like what is Lord doing? Is He good? Is He for us? How can I believe the truth of the gospel when I'm living the realities of this world?

 

And all I can say is oftentimes to myself and to my kids, like, I don't know where God is in this. I don't know why He's not giving the miracle. I don't know why the prayer seems unanswered. But what I don't know about God is so small in comparison to what I do know about His goodness and his faithfulness. That it doesn't matter. And I've got these stones to remind me. So it's physical reminders of God's goodness. It's tangible. I can touch it and I can say, He has been good in the past, He doesn't change and He'll do it again. [00:49:45] 

 

And so I encourage you just remember where God's good. Don't overlook it. Don't miss it. Can be small things, can be big things. You know, I gave some examples of bigger things. But there are small places where God has been faithful, where I've seen Him give me a heart for someone that's hurt me. And I write that down and I'm like, that's God's faithfulness because I wouldn't have done that on my own. 

 

So find ways to remember where God's been good, where He's answered the prayers, where He's been faithful to your family, and then keep them handy and share them with your kids so they can remember that too. Nothing's taken for granted. Everything that is good is from the Lord. We know that. So make sure you talk about it. Make sure you represent it. Make sure that your family knows that all good things we have, all the things that we've needed the Lord's been faithful in it, and we'll celebrate that.

 

Laura Dugger: That is such a wonderful charge to each of us. Cynthia, I just love your encouragement and humility and sense of humor. [00:50:45] I'm drawn to all the wisdom you shared. So I just want to say thank you for being my guest.

 

Cynthia Yanof: Aw, thank you for having me. And thanks everyone for listening. I just hope you're encouraged. Again, I don't ever want to come from a place of expertise. I am walking the road with all of you, but hopefully it's something resonated. Laura and I prayed before we started the Lord to speak to each person individually. And I'll pray that again, when we're finished with the Lord to speak into your lives and just something... maybe something will catch and encourage you today. So thanks for having me.

 

Laura Dugger: Oh, it's truly my pleasure. 

 

One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

 

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. [00:51:46] So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

 

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. 

 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

 

So would you pray with me now? [00:52:45] Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. 

 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. 

 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?

 

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. 

 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. [00:53:49] I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. 

 

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

#1 from 2022: Enhancing Female Pleasure and Enjoyment of Sex: An Interview with Dr. Jennifer Degler

*DISCLAIMER* This episode includes adult content and is not intended for young ears.

 

Top Ten from 2022: #1 Enhancing Female Pleasure and Enjoyment of Sex: An Interview with Dr. Jennifer Degler

 

Song of Songs 1:1 (NIV) "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth—for your love is more delightful than wine."

 

Questions We Discuss:

1. Can you tell us more about the three essential aspects to a woman flourishing sexually in marriage?
2. How is a woman's sexual response related to each day of her cycle?
3. What are some important things to know about female orgasm?

 

Dr. Jennifer Degler is a Psychologist, life coach, author, and speaker. She is known for her frank, funny, energetic seminars which weave together practical information and Scripture with real life examples from her clinical practice and her own marriage and family. She loves audience involvement and keeping a group on their toes, meaning no one gets sleepy during her talks, and everyone goes home with apply-it-now tools for successful living, satisfying relationships, and improved emotional health. 

 

Audiences say she could’ve been a standup comedian, but Dr. Jennifer prefers helping people through her central Kentucky counseling practice and writing books like No More Christian Nice Girl and the Deck of Dares: 40 Dares to Make Your Marriage Sizzle. Her fabulous adult children, Josie and Jake, delight in telling their friends that their mom runs a sex shop when, in reality, she founded CWIVES.com, a ministry to help Christian wives make their sex lives sizzle. When she’s not podcasting and blogging about emotional wellness, relationships, sex, and spiritual growth on the JenniferDegler.com website, you can find her teaching a women’s Sunday School class, kayaking, and enjoying her empty nest with her high school sweetheart husband, Jeff.

 

Fan the Flame

Dare of the Month

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

#2 from 2022: Fresh Take on Hospitality with Jaime Farrell

Top Ten from 2022: #2 Fresh Take on Hospitality with Jaime Farrell

 

Romans 12:13 (ESV) "Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality."

 

Questions and Topics We Discuss:

1. What is your personal process (including practical and replicable suggestions) for making hosting a reality?
2. Do you ever have a stinky attitude about hosting?
3. How do you actually involve your kids in the process?

 

Jaime Farrell is first of all, a beloved of her Lord. She is also wife to Jonathan, and mother to Jorja, Jolie, Jemma, and Job. Once her children were school aged, she returned to working as a teacher in her local community. She can be reached on Facebook and she would also love to invite you to sit with her at church! Find out more about the church where her family attends and her husband serves as Lead Pastor at gracemorton.org.

 

Links to Everything Mentioned in Today's Episode:

 

At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. 

 

Sample of Games:

Code Names

Double Ditto

Wits and Wagers Family Edition

 

Websites:

Brown Eyed Baker

Sally's Baking Addiction

 

Books:

When People are Big and God is Small

The Gospel Comes with a House Key

 

Recipes:

Man-Pleasing Chicken

Mexican Pulled Pork Tacos

 

Grace Church Website

 

Other Savvy Sauce Episodes Related to Hospitality:

The Supernatural Power Present While Gathering at the Table with Devi Titus

Practical Tips to Eating Dinner Together as a Family with Blogger and Cookbook Co-Author, Rachel Tiemeyer

Ideas for Meaningful Holiday Traditions with Mentor, Shawn Mazelin

Relationships and Opportunities that Arise from Using Your Gifts with Founder of Neighbor’s Table, Sarah Harmeyer

The Story of Six Sisters' Stuff

Experiencing Joy, Connection, and Nourishment at the Table with Abby Turner

 

Patreon 6 Making Your Home a Place of Love and Peace With Author and International Speaker, Devi Titus

Patreon 12 Mentoring and Hospitality with Mentor, Shawn Mazelin

Patreon 37 Your Hospitality Personality with Morgan Tyree

 

Hospitality Related Articles:

Homemaking Resources

Recipes to Try

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

#3 From 2022: Mastering Technology so it Does Not Master You with Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd

Top Ten from 2022: #3 Mastering Technology so it Does Not Master You with Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd

 

Matthew 6:22 (NIV) "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light."

 

Questions and Topics We Discuss:

1. When you look at brain science research, what have you learned about how technology rewires our brains?
2. What is most helpful in restoring and repairing our brains and our relationships?
3. As it relates to the future, where do you think technology is headed and what should be on our radar?

 

Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd is the Director of the Flourish Center for Wellbeing in Knoxville, TN, and as the Founder and President of Flourish Wellbeing University. She has a Master's Degree specializing in Christian Counseling, and a Doctorate in Leadership. She is also an ICF (PCC) Professional Certified Coach, a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach, and ICF Mentor Coach. She is the co-author with her father Dr. Archibald Hart of "The Digital Invasion: How Technology is Shaping You and Your Relationships". She lives with her husband of 37 years in beautiful Knoxville, TN we they one daughter, two sons, one son-in-law, one daughter-in-law, two beautiful grand daughters and an adorable grand-son. She is passionate about coaching people to flourish and thrive in their: Spiritual Emotional, Mental, Physical, Relational, and Vocational wellbeing. Sylvia is most restored and experiences God when she is close to water, walks in nature, creates beauty and has deep coaching conversations.

 

Flourish Center for Well-Being

Email Dr. Frejd at DrSylvia@FlourishCenterforWellbeing.com

 

At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. 

 

The Digital Invasion by Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd

Thrilled to Death by Dr. Archibald Hart

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

Top Ten from 2022: #4 Becoming Famous at Home with Dr. Josh and Christi Straub

Top Ten from 2022: #4 Becoming Famous at Home with Dr. Josh and Christi Straub

 

"And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers," Malachi 4:6a (ESV)

 

Questions and Topics We Cover:

1. What has God taught you two about why it is vitally important to be famous at home?
2. How do you combat the impulse to seek fulfillment in things outside the home that may seem to offer more instant gratification than cultivating our family?
3. Will you tell us more about what you've learned about the importance of rhythms?

 

Dr. Josh and Christi Straub are speakers, authors, and marriage and leadership coaches. Together, they lead Famous at Home, a company equipping leaders, organizations, military families, and churches in emotional intelligence and family wellness. Together, they host the weekly Famous at Home podcast, lead a yearlong coaching cohort called The Leader’s Heart, and have two children’s books on emotional intelligence called What Am I Feeling? and What Do I Do With Worry? Josh and Christi are also authors of Homegrown and 25 Days of the Christmas Story: An Advent Family Experience, as well as Famous at Home: 7 Decisions to Put Your Family Center Stage in a World Competing for Your Time, Attention, and Identity. Josh and Christi love spending time on the lake with their three sweet kids and their feisty goldendoodle, Copper.

 

Connect with them through: Their Famous at Home Website, Famous at Home Podcast, or Instagram

 

Famous at Home by Dr. Josh and Christi Straub

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

Top Ten from 2022: #5 Orgasmic Potential, Pleasure, and Friendship: An Interview with Bonny Burns

*DISCLAIMER* This episode includes adult content and is not intended for young ears.

 

Top Ten from 2022: #5 Orgasmic Potential, Pleasure, and Friendship: An Interview with Bonny Burns

 

Genesis 4:1a (KJV) "And Adam knew Eve his wife;"

 

Questions We Discuss:

 

1. What are some practical ways we can enhance our spiritual, emotional, and sexual connection in marriage?
2. Will you teach us more of the scientific findings of sex that we may be unaware of?
3. What are some other fascinating findings you've discovered as it relates to the sexual intimacy and pleasure in marriage?

 

Bonny Burns is an APSATS certified partner coach (Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Trauma Specialists, apsats.org.) She has been writing and researching God’s design of sexual intimacy since 2012 on the blog OysterBed7.com and has been speaking about godly sexual intimacy on the popular podcast, forchristianwives.com. She can also be found at strongwives.com.

 

Strong Wives Website

Sex Chats for Christian Wives Podcast

Bonny Burns' Website

Bonny Burns on Facebook

Book with Bonny as your Coach

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

Top Ten from 2022: #6 God’s Design and Warnings for Sex: Interview with Mike Novotny

*DISCLAIMER* This episode contains adult content and is not intended for young ears.

 

Top Ten from 2022: #6 God's Design and Warnings for Sex: An Interview with Mike Novotny

 

Matthew 7:14 (NIV) "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

 

Questions we discuss:

1. What are a few unexpected parts of the Bible that discuss sex?
2. What have you learned through your journey of recovery and counseling?
3. Are there any stories you want to share that took place because you were willing to discuss this topic of healthy sexuality with your church?

 

Mike Novotny is a pastor at The CORE, a church in downtown Appleton, WI, as well as spiritual leader and lead speaker for Time of Grace, a media ministry that reaches people more than a million times each month through weekly television broadcasts and podcasts. He enjoys spending time with his wife and two daughters, continuing his streak of 37 years of playing organized soccer, running long distances and reading any nonfiction he can get his hands on.

 

Pastor Mike Novotny's Website

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”