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Do you want ideas for questions to deepen your conversations? Do you want to feel intimately connected to your spouse? Do you desire to parent with purpose? If so, tune in each Monday with Laura, a licensed marriage and family therapist who specialized in Christian sex therapy. She interviews the best faith-based speakers to answer our questions and doesn't shy away from a wide range of difficult topics. Sexual intimacy is discussed once a month so that you can delight in your marital relationship, feel equipped to teach your children about sex, and learn practical ways to overcome hurt or addiction. Episodes on health and wellness cover topics of hormones and free lifestyle swaps, perimenopause, and what simple practices yield HUGE health benefits. Marital experts teach conflict resolution that actually works, parenting pros share wisdom from newborns to adult children, business leaders let us in on secrets of the trade, and the foundation of everything is Jesus Christ! Find joy here and live on purpose as you consider, “What’s your savvy sauce?!"
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42 minutes ago
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1hr 38 sec
Raising Future HEALTHY Adults with Elizabeth Pehrson (Episode 296)
Hebrews 12:11 NIV “No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.”
*Transcription Below*
Elizabeth Pehrson is a speaker, podcaster and founder of The Exchange. She’s a yellow sanguine, who is full of energy and lives life wide-open! She loves Jesus and meaningful connections. Elizabeth is married to David and mother of EIGHT children, who range from high school to graduated from college.
Follow her online:
Instagram: @long_game_parenting or @octomama or @theexchangeus
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.m.pehrson
Thank you to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage
Questions and Topics We Cover:
- What are a handful of habits in the home that you see as most essential for families so that they all can experience a joyful life together?
- What natural consequences and strategic discipline can you offer as ideas for teens living at home?
- As parents, what else can we do now to help our kids reach maturity and independence as adults?
Previous Guests from The Savvy Sauce Episode Mentioned:
75 Responding to God’s Stirring with Elizabeth Pehrson, Founder of The Exchange, Part Two
Inspiring Perspective in Parenting with Kay Wyma (Episode 164)
Stories of God's Upside Down Economy with Kristen Welch (Episode 174)
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
Music: (0:00 – 0:11)
Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 1:18)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
I'm thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, WinShape Marriage. Their weekend marriage retreats will strengthen your marriage, while you enjoy the gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at winshapemarriage.org slash savvy.
My returning guest for today is Elizabeth Pehrson, and if possible, we are going to get even more practical than we did last week, as we're going to discuss ways to actually enjoy parenting, while simultaneously preparing our children to launch as faithful and healthy adults someday.
Here's our chat.
Welcome back again to The Savvy Sauce, Elizabeth. I'm so excited to be here.
This is fun. It's always a joy to get a chat with you, and we're going to go even more practical today, but do you mind sharing some disclaimers about that first?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (1:32 - 1:57)
Not at all. You know, when I was growing up, I grew up in the church, and I really looked at "train up a child in the way he should go, and when he's old, he will not depart from it," as a promise. And it really is a principle. And so as much as we want it to be A plus B equals C, it's not always that way. There are certain principles that we are to follow and God's asked us to, and so I think we need to focus on that and leave the rest to him.
Laura Dugger: (1:57 - 2:28)
That's so good. So, keeping that in mind, but then also hearing wise tips that we can hopefully implement. How do you think we can teach our children the importance of reciprocity, such as encouraging them to ask other people questions rather than just focusing the conversation on themselves, or encouraging them to do chores around the house, rather than just expecting their parents to do all the work or over function for them?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (2:29 - 6:07)
Oh, yeah, this one's right up my alley. I love this question so much. John F. Kennedy, you know, gave his famous speech, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." And I think in the same way, we want each family member to ask not what can you do for me, but what can I do for the family. And we believe that wholeheartedly.
And so, because of that, we started assigning age-appropriate chores at the age of three. And they have a chore every single day of the week, except for Sunday, even when they're busy, even when they have baseball, football, lacrosse, didn't matter what it was. We have this whiteboard in our home. And it's like the motherboard of all things in our family. And it's got on the top part of it, it has our calendar appointments, practices, games, meetings, you know, meals for the week, like everything you can imagine that it takes to run our family is at the top part. And then the second part of the whiteboard, we have a section that says, “because we clothe and feed you, and then it has their names underneath that.
And so, when they leave for school, I look at the calendar, I look at everything that needs to be gotten done that day or that week for the family. And then I delegate it to each of the children. And so, I would assign them each a chore. And so, when they would get home from school, it was right there where they would walk in and put their backpacks down and they knew to look at their chore. And they knew that it had to be finished before dinner. And it made it so easy because there was no nagging, there was no reminding, there was no, you know, begging them to do it and following up, it was just so much a part of each of their day, just like going to school or brushing their teeth, it was something they knew they had to do.
And in addition to that, in our home, when our children turn eight, we have this rule that you are no longer a consumer, but you are a contributor. So, at the age of eight, they have to start doing all their own laundry, washing their own sheets, and lots of other substantially harder chores. And then at nine, they have to start mowing the yard, they start cooking and things that actually really contribute to the family as a whole.
And, you know, in the last episode, I talked a lot about modeling for our kids, you know, what we want them to learn. And as far as the, you know, talking about asking important, I mean, having them ask questions and reciprocity, it's the same thing as to you have to model it, right? You have to model that for your children. And so let them hear you ask the cashier how her day's going, you know, even if it embarrasses them, or, you know, how you speak to the waiter or the waitress, let them see you notice the neighbor struggling with something in their yard. Like let them watch you thank their father for taking the car to get the oil changed or taking the trash out just simple things like that. You know, something that our mentors taught us that we implemented with our children right away.
And this was I cannot emphasize the impact that this had on our children enough. But when somebody anybody, but particular an adult asked you a question, you look them in the eyes, you answered their question. And then you responded with a question, you ask them a question that was a game changer. I can't tell you how many bus drivers, teachers, coaches said, “I've never had a student asked me how my weekend was.” I've never once, when they get on the bus asked me, ”How am I doing today? How was my day?”
And again, it's not for any like praise or anything like that. But my point is, it's so countercultural that it stands out. And it's so important to have your children learn from a young age what it looks like to look an adult in the eye and ask her a question. If they can't do that, when they're older, they'll never be able to advocate for themselves.
Laura Dugger: (6:08 - 6:21)
I love all things countercultural. I think because a lot of times it does point back to Jesus, just even somebody experiencing that and having a wow factor. Ultimately, it's because the goodness of the Lord that they've just experienced.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (6:22 - 6:23)
Absolutely, absolutely.
Laura Dugger: (6:23 - 6:38)
So, do you have maybe a handful of habits in the home that you see as most essential for families so that everyone living there can enjoy and experience a joyful life together?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (6:40 - 9:00)
Oh, I'm sure that we do. I think joy in a home is rarely accidental. It's cultivated, it's intentional. And I would just say, ask what brings your family joy, and then do more of that. It's most likely going to be different for everybody. And I can only speak for us. But what we loved, what we did, family dinners around the dinner table were non-negotiable.
There were seasons around the dinner table, that part was negotiable, because there were seasons, like we had four boys playing football. And so, we would have practices five nights a week and four games on Saturday. And so, we would take the dinner to the ballpark, and we would literally sit there as a family, because I wasn't going to constantly never have family dinner just for the six months in the fall, or winter, or whatever. But we used dinner time to ask intentional questions, to laugh, to tell stories. We joked, we role-played, that was a big one for us.
Just as a family, we would do that together. And probably the best thing that we did, and the thing that we still do, is we make things fun. We play games, really fun ones. Not that board games aren't fun, those are fun. But instead of, our kids are grown now, and for Easter, they will all come home, and I will have created games out of Easter eggs with all different types. Not going to find them, but just different types. I'll line up 20 Easter eggs with different colors, and then the first person, they get 10 seconds to look at it. And then the first person that can replicate it with those colors. Things like that, what was in the Easter eggs, questions, that kind of stuff.
One year, we did an Easter egg hunt, where we tied two people together. One was on the back, and the one below was blindfolded. So, the one on the back had to tell them where to go, and what to do. Or we leg-tied their legs together. Just things to make it creative or fun. At Christmas, we always play reindeer games. It's my kids' favorite thing that we do. We've often gotten in inflatables, and we've done an Easter egg hunt that way, where everyone's wearing these huge inflatables, or we play a kickball game. And that was our Christmas card this last year. But just anything that wants to make them want to participate, right? Want to have them want to come home. So that's what I would say.
Laura Dugger: (9:01 - 9:18)
I love it. And I don't remember the direct quote. It was from Bob Goff. But just saying how the more outlandish it is, or the more that you add variety or break from the norms, that's what they're going to remember. So, I'm sure your kids have incredible memories of all those holidays.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (9:19 - 9:19)
Yes.
Laura Dugger: (9:20 - 9:38)
I hope so, anyway. Oh, I'm sure that we'll have to steal some of those. But do you also have any stories to share for the payoff now that you're experiencing? Because when your children were little, you started them off with focusing on chores and hard work.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (9:38 - 9:39)
How long do you have?
Laura Dugger: (9:40 - 9:42)
Give everything you got.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (9:42 - 14:13)
Okay. Chores for children when they are young, it has proven to be the single biggest indicator of success when they're older. Hands down. Chores, specifically hard chores, they teach your kids responsibility. They teach them resourcefulness. It instills in them confidence. It instills in them capability. It instills in them competence. And I could give you example, after example, after example of how I've seen this payoff for my children. And I would say even in some ways, more importantly, how I have seen it negatively impact their friends, whose parents did not require them to work at home when they were younger.
I remember my oldest son went off to college, and he called me after orientation and he's a man of few words, doesn't say thank you very often. And he said, "Mom, I have to tell you something." And I said, "What?" And he said, "You know, this is a pretty hard school to get into. And the people are competent. They're smart." He said, "I have never in my life seen a group of individuals that are so incapable of doing anything for themselves." He's like, "We're standing in line to get our, what's the ID, you know, their picture taken." He said, "Kid after kid on their phone. Hey, I don't, I don't have a credit card. I don't have a debit card. I don't know how to do this." He said, "I mean, and then he gets to college and it's like, they don't know how to get their oil changed. They don't know how to, you know, make their own doctor's appointment." And he thanked me. He's like, "I'm sorry. I resisted it when I was younger, but I just want to say thank you."
And, you know, my daughter Libby called me one day and she said, "Mom, you know, you're not going to believe this." And I said, "What?" And so, she tells me of the story of her roommate, and her roommate had not left campus in six weeks. And so, she asked her, she said, "Hey, I thought you had a car here." And she said, "I do." And she said, "Well, why don't you ever leave?" And she said, "Well, I don't have gas." And she said, "Well, do you need money?" And she said, "Well, no, I don't need money." You know, she said, "I thought maybe you needed gas money." She said, "No." And she said, "Well, then what's going on?" She goes, "I've never put gas in my car." And that's not a chore, but that is a basic skill. Think about that, dropping your child off to college with a car and never having shown them or made them get their own gas.
And then she called me a couple of weeks later. And she said to me, "Mom, did you know it's possible not to know how to hand wash dishes?" And I said, "Well, that's not possible. What are you talking about?" She said, "Well, she was just buying new dishes, plastic dishes. She was buying them because she didn't know how to wash them." And so, she said, "I said to her, hey, like you can just wash your dishes." She goes, "We don't have a dishwasher." And she said, "So I had to show her how to use soap and water to wash her own dishes." I mean, I could go on and on and on.
I mean, I have another daughter that went off to college, and we were at the very first day moving them in and the mom was barking orders, telling everyone what to do. And after about 10 minutes, I was like, I went outside in the hallway, and I just sat down and removed myself. And her husband looks at me and he goes, "Wow, you learned quickly." And I said, "What does that mean?" And he said, "Get out of her way and let her do it." And I said, "Well, what about your daughter?" He goes, "Oh, she's never done anything for herself. She does everything for her."
We got in the car to go home. And I just said to my husband, I said, "It's going to be really hard for our daughter because this girl's never done anything for themselves." I mean, I could give you story, after story, after story, but you know, when you require your children to put in hard work when they're really young, you know, they don't panic when life requires effort. Later on, they aren't entitled to comfort. They aren't entitled to other people doing things for them. You know, they know how to contribute, you know, wherever they land, whether it's in a dorm room, a house or, you know, college house or beyond, you know, my kids joke with me. They were like, "Mom, this can be a gift or a curse knowing how to do everything." And I said, "Well, what do you mean?" They're like, "Well, nobody else knows how to do everything. And they know that we do. So, they just want us to do it." And I was like, "Sorry about that. You know, sorry, you have to take care of it."
But again, it's like, we are trying to train our kids up for independence, not to be dependent on us. And they go off to college or they graduate college, and they're already going to have first, like so many first being away from home, sleeping with a stranger in their same room, your dorm room, like so many things are going to have to navigate. And then do you want them to have to figure out how to do laundry, how to do dishes, how to I mean, no, it's like, wow, chores instill that. And then when they're really young.
Laura Dugger: (14:14 - 14:23)
So, did you and your husband sit down and map out everything that you wanted them to know? Or how did you come up with these chores? And what are some more examples?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (14:24 - 16:09)
Oh, yeah. And it's so interesting. It's so interesting, because I thought about this when I was thinking about our time together. But there's a book that we read. Well, there's a couple of books that we read that were pretty impactful. But one of them was called Cleaning House by Kate Wills Weima. And so, her 12 things, the idea of the book is to think about all the things you want to know your children know how to do and know how to do well when they leave home. And then you take one month and you just focus on that, that specific thing. And so, we sat down and her 12 things weren't our 12 things. Some of them were, but some of them were not. And so, we just did month after month after month of wanting them to know exactly, you know, how to do these things, you know, when we're grown, or when they're grown. And so we did that.
But I mean, my husband, anytime he was working on the lawnmower, anytime he was doing anything in the yard, he gathered the boys around like, "Hey, boys, come on," and he was trying to show them or fixing the toilet or deal, you know, whatever it might have been. And I would do the same thing, whether it was in the garden, or whether it was in the kitchen, or whether it was outside with yard work, whatever, just to gather them around and involve them because they don't know. I mean, it's not their fault, but they won't know unless we show them.
And one of the things I love is that the earlier you start showing them and training them up in these chores, and in this yard work, and in managing a home, the longer you have at home to train them up to do it well. But a lot of people think, oh, they're too young, or I'll just wait until they're older. Well, truth is, by the time they're 16, you really have very limited time with them. Very limited. And you're like, "Oh, when am I going to do that?" You know, they're at their sports, they're at school things, they're driving, they're with friends. And so, it's like, the earlier you can start the better.
Laura Dugger: (16:11 - 16:22)
So good, even I'm thinking we could even involve our kids in what else have we not thought of that you want to learn how to do because it really is a gift to be trained and to take that time.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (16:23 - 16:32)
I mean, and that kind of goes back to what we've talked about last time, you know, just being lifelong learners and curious, like, I don't know how to do this. But let's figure it out together.
Laura Dugger: (16:33 - 16:44)
Well, and I'm going to also link to a previous episode, I did interview Kay on that book. But do you remember the other one that you also read related to it?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (16:44 - 20:24)
Oh, yes, there was a season where there's actually two of them. But there is a season where my focus and my priority was riding entitlement from my children. I meet with moms all the time. And they're like, "My children are so spoiled." And I'm like, "Well, just I'm curious who spoils them." You know, and it really does start with us. It stems with us, even if it's the ones where moms will say, "Well, I mean, I don't give them that brand new thing, but their grandmother does." Well, technically, you're the gatekeeper of what comes in and out of your home, you can allow it or not allow it, you can say to them, "You know what, they don't need the newest iPad, they don't need the newest Lululemon or whatever. I want to, I want you to offer an experience with them, you know, something different, something like that, you can control that." But there was a season where that's all I saw. And I saw it in my children's hearts as well. And so, I read the book How to Raise Grateful Children in an Entitled World. And then I also read the book 7 by Jen Hatmaker long time ago, a lot of our philosophies have changed. But back in the day, long time ago, it was an entitlement, it said an experiment against a mutiny against excess. And so, it was another challenge we did, like we did the 12-month challenge from Kay's book, we did a seven-month challenge from her book, and we took seven areas where we have so much excess, and we stripped it down one month at a time. And I'm telling you, it was hard, not only because our children didn't want to do it, but it was hard for me, particularly the month of technology. I mean, you're talking no TV, no cell phone, no, I mean, other than phone calls, you know, no scrolling, none of that, no podcast, no, you couldn't use it just for a month just to have stillness, quiet. I mean, it was crazy hard. But then we noticed that the puzzles started coming out and coloring started coming out and creativity started coming out, you know, it requires 15 minutes of boredom, boredom for creativity to set in. And I would say the creativity did set in, and it was unbelievable.
One month, we only allowed we got to choose, but we picked seven foods. That's all you could eat for one month. When you went out, that's all you could choose from. It was so hard. It was unbelievable. But what caught me so strongly was in her book, she starts out by saying she had three young children at home, and she was adopting two children from Ethiopia. And she had already been over to visit them twice. And they were literally starving to death. And you know, her heart just wanted them home. But because of all the logistics, she couldn't get them here yet. And she said one day she made fish sticks for her kids. And then she went up to go switch laundry. She came back down a few minutes later, and she saw all the fish in the trash can. And she was like, "What in the world?" So, she asked them, she said, "Did y'all not eat?" They're like, "We did." And she said, "Well, I just saw the fish sticks in the trash can." And they're like, "We didn't have ketchup." She's like, "You just threw away five pounds of fish, you know, whatever it was, because you didn't have ketchup. Yet we have two other children across the world that would give anything to have those fish sticks." And I was like, "I see that with my children. It's like, I don't want that. Or I don't care for that. Or that clothing, I'd rather something else." And so, for one month, they only could wear seven articles of clothing total. That's it. And it's crazy, because you think everyone's looking at you like, "Why are you wearing the same thing every single day?" No one even cares what you're doing. But it just changed your whole mindset and perspective. So, entitlement was a big one for us. And those two books were super helpful with that.
Laura Dugger: (20:25 - 20:28)
Well, and even it sounds like a version of fasting.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (20:29 - 20:53)
Oh, absolutely. I mean, we've told our kids all you know, since they were young, it doesn't matter what it is. Whatever you can't fast from owns you. It does, whatever that is. And so, some months the food was harder for others for some month, the clothing was harder, the girls, the clothing was harder. You know, the boys could care less for some month, it was a technology, but it's like whatever it is, it's got a stronghold in your heart. That's what owns you.
Laura Dugger: (20:54 - 23:23)
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Another big topic is discipline, and that's something that parents are consistently interested in discussing, probably so that we can all balance rules and relationship. For any of the other parents who are also exhausted and maybe don't know what consequences to utilize as they seek to influence their children, what are some natural consequences and strategic discipline that you've offered before or that you can think of, especially with teens in the home?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (23:25 - 27:02)
Yeah. Discipline basically means to disciple, and so we're training our kids up. We can't expect them just to know it on their own and intuitively think, that's not a wise choice, so I shouldn't make it. We're here because they need us. God entrusted them to us. But I love that you said consequences, because that's really the way I choose to look at discipline, because childhood is meant to be training ground for independence.
Natural consequences, in my opinion, are the best way to do that, because I think consequences should connect directly to their choices, to my choices, because as we tell them, every single choice you make, every single one has a consequence, good or bad. You're going to have a consequence. You reap what you do, so therefore it is so important to acknowledge and recognize what you choose. Not my response to it, but to what you choose.
You oversleep an alarm, which is, you know, middle schoolers and high schoolers are known to do. You oversleep the alarm, you experience the discomfort of being late, whether that's missing the whole day because you as the mom are busy doing other things, or you're at work, or maybe you just missed that test the first period and you can then drive yourself to school, but you have to suffer that consequence. I'm not going to rescue you from that, or you know, you forget to bring in a project that you have worked on for days and days and days and days, and you forget to bring it in. Your grade will reflect that. That is a natural consequence.
I had a son, I won't name him, but I had a son that chose to make the decision to cheat on a chemistry test, and the teacher called me and said, in high school, AP, and said, "You know, he's a great student, he made a poor choice, he didn't study, he's busy with football," and she said, "So I'm going to let him retake it," and I said, "No, he chose to make that decision. Please fail him like you would do any other student. I do not want him to ever, ever, ever consider doing this again," and she goes, "Well, it might be on his transcript." I said, "Okay, so be it, but I'm more interested in his long-term character and who he's becoming than I am about his AP chemistry score. I'm more interested in that," so the natural consequences, or to give him a zero on that.
You know, you have the stud athlete as a son, and they forget their cleats or their jerseys at home. Guess what? They sit out from practice. They sit out from the game that afternoon. You know, it's not going to be the end of the world. Although we think it is, they think it is, it's not. So, I try to think of discipline, you know, not as punishing, but more as preparing them for adulthood, and you know, like we talked about the other day, I encourage moms not to bail, but to let them fail. I mean, it literally could seem like the end of the world to your child, but in the grand scheme of things, it has no bearing on their life later on, but many moms treat every little thing as if, you know, but I just try to tell moms when I meet with them, your child's employer will not care what they made on a middle school project. They won't. If they forgot it and got a C, your employer, their employer will not care that they made a C on that, or maybe even an F. They will not even care what your son or your daughter's high school GPA is. They will not care if you missed that baseball game, you missed that tournament, but they will care if you are hardworking, if you're responsible, if you take ownership for your actions, and I think natural consequences are the best way to teach all of those things.
Laura Dugger: (27:03 - 27:13)
Well, and I would assume if we actually follow through, it's so painful in the moment, but it probably doesn't take many times to learn that lesson.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (27:14 - 29:29)
No, not at all, and particularly if you have multiple children. I remember I was giving a talk on entitlement and how we rescue our children so easily, and I was setting up, and so I was getting things out of my car, taking things back and forth into this, you know, building where I was setting up, and as I get into the back seat, I see this project that my daughter literally had been working on for two weeks, and when she got out of the car that day, she left it, and I just thought, "Oh, here I am talking about this. I can either do it, nobody will know, take it up there, but then I was like, no, what does that teach her? Mom's going to bail me out every single time," and it was like, ah, it crushed me, crushed me, but I was more interested in what's going to happen for her long term, and another thing, if you have, if you have siblings, multiple children, they can learn from each other, not just from their own personal suffering.
That same daughter, I'll never forget it. She came home from school. She was in the third grade, and my kids know, like, your schoolwork is on you. It is not on me. I have already been to kindergarten. I have already been to third grade. I've already been to high school. It is on you, and I email the teachers at the beginning of the year. I just want you to know that my third-grade daughter will be doing her entire projects, schoolwork, tests, grade, everything will be her, so please, please grade her on a third grade level, because what's happening is parents are doing their projects, parents are doing their papers, all of the things, and so it's like, wow, hers looks terrible. It is on par for a third grader, though, you know, so I email the teachers at the beginning, and I let them know that they are responsible. They can choose to teach them in any way that they want, discipline them in any way they want, and my daughter came home from school one day, and she had this big thing due the next day, and she was like, "Mom, oh my goodness, I left it in my desk. Would you please email her and see if I can come in early in the morning and get it and work on it," and I said, "Sure," and all my kids were like, "You will," and so I emailed, and I said, "Dear Mrs. Prilliman, she left her, you know, her assignment in her desk. Please feel free to punish her and discipline her in any way that you see fit," and she's like, "Mom," you know, she was so upset, but the other kids are like, "Mental note, I will never do that," you know, so they can learn, you know, from each other as well, so.
Laura Dugger: (29:30 - 29:50)
That is a benefit of having siblings. I love hearing those stories. That helps it sink in, but Elizabeth, also, what can we be doing while our children are still in the home in hopes of them experiencing wise financial stewardship and freedom financially when they leave home?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (29:51 - 32:34)
Yeah, I'm going to be very honest. David and I were not the best at this. It's not our greatest strength, that is for sure. It is not our natural genius, and with a family of 10, money was always tight. It really was, but we didn't want our kids to feel the weight of that. We didn't want them to feel that burden, but having said that, we did teach them delayed gratification. We did teach them saving before spending, distinguishing wants from needs. That's a big difference, working for what they desire or what they wanted, and they had to participate in paying for part or all of what they wanted, and that included travel sports. I mean, you know, there were times where we had five or six in travel sports. I mean, it's thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars, and so they either had to contribute financially if they could, depending on their age, or I remember one year, my son was young, and he wanted to do it, and it was going to be $2,800, and he was very gifted in baseball, and we wanted him to have this experience, but we knew that it was going to impact the entire family because all of our kids were still young.
It wasn't like we could leave them at home. Everybody would be going every single weekend to all these different places, and so we said, "Okay, we're going to sit down as a family, and we're going to talk about this," and so they agreed. They wanted him to do it. They wanted to go to all these tournaments as a family, but so we decided that we would not eat out until that was paid off, the equivalent of that was paid off, and anytime anyone wanted to like stop at McDonald's or pick up something, we're like, "Remember, we're paying for Jack's baseball," and it was a family effort, and so, you know, I mean, it could be their homecoming dress if they want something extravagant or things that were above and beyond, you know, over a roof over their head or food on the table or clothes, you know, their basic needs, but just tried to model financially real life, and we all know that just because we want something doesn't mean we get it. It doesn't work that way, and when we give our kids everything they want, I would argue that we are setting them up and sometimes their potential future spouses up for failure because I don't know if you know this, but this generation is the first generation not to have as to make as much or have as much as their previous two generations before them.
Typically, we make more than our parents and our grandparents, but this is the first one not to, and that's why grown adults are still living at home, so it's like, wow, if we can model this for our kids, you know, that, hey, just because you want that extra thing doesn't mean you get it. You got to work some extra jobs. You got to pick up some extra shifts, you know, maybe ask for some money chores at home, you know, that we would offer them, but we just tried to model it for real life, but like I said, it wasn't our greatest strength.
Laura Dugger: (32:35 - 32:41)
Oh, I bet even more of a strength than you realize just hearing that example. I did not know that about the generation. That's fascinating.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (32:43 - 34:15)
Yeah, I mean, one of my all-time favorite, there's a TED Talk. It's old. It's like a really short one, and I'm blanking on the lady's name, but she was in college, and her dad was an attorney, and he was very affluent. They had a lot of money, and back in the day, I think this was like in the 90s, 2000s maybe, there was this new pair of jeans that were out, and they were $120, and every other pair of jeans were like 50 bucks or something, you know, 40 bucks, and so she called her dad, who could easily afford it, and said, "Dad, oh my gosh, I need a pair of these jeans. Everybody," she was in college at University of Florida. "Everybody has these jeans. I want a pair," and he goes, "Okay, well, what are you going to do to go get the money?" She's like, "Dad, come on. I know you can give it to me." He said, "No, that's not the way life works," so she happened to be in the student center, and she saw one of those little advertisements, need a house cleaner, and she's like, "My parents made me do chores. I know how to clean a house," so she pulled the little number. She went to the lady's house. She cleaned her house, got the 120 bucks, and the lady said, "Well, when are you coming back," and she said, "Oh, no, no, I just needed one pair of jeans. Like, you know, I'm not coming back," and she said, "No, you did an amazing job." Well, this girl went on to start an organization while she was in college, a business. Now, it's like on a Fortune 500 something. I don't even know, but it's called Student Maid, M-A-I-D, and she had 500 employees by the time she was a senior, and she was cleaning apartments, houses, but her dad had given her the 120 bucks because he could to get the pair of jeans, so it's like, get out there and figure it out, and so I just love that story.
Laura Dugger: (34:16 - 34:34)
Wow, I love that as well, and totally different topic, but when it comes to caring for our health and our bodies, if we truly believe our bodies are a temple for God, what are ways that we can model and encourage our children to live wisely in that way?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (34:35 - 37:07)
Yeah, I'm glad you said model because really that's what it comes down to. I mean, if they see us beating ourselves up, not prioritizing sleep, not moving our bodies, not eating well, you know, that's what they're going to do. I mean, it's just history has proven itself. You can look at cultures. Those that move their bodies, sleep, rest on the Sabbath, I mean, they're a healthier culture, and so all of those things, you know, eating with balance, not obsession, resting on Sundays, I mean, even in the church world, that's almost unheard of to take the Sabbath off, and I would really say, particularly if you have daughters, not that it doesn't matter for sons as well, but it really impacts daughter is speaking respectfully about the body that God has given you.
I sadly see so many women talk trash about their own looks or their own appearance, their body, if I could just fix this, I wish I didn't have this, and then they expect their daughters not to do the same, you know, and so when we say, "Oh, honey, you're beautiful," they're like, "Well, you don't think you are," you know, and they see right through it. I mean, I want my daughters to be strong, not skinny, right? I want them to be healthy, not appearance driven. I want them to know that mom got up and went to the gym every morning. Mom made sure she got outside and got sunshine and got on a walk, you know, culture already put so much pressure on these young girls and their size. Oh, my goodness, it like just breaks my heart, and so the last thing they need is for us to start, you know, for striving for unattainable goals, right, that put an expectation on them and their appearance. I mean, that's the last thing that they need, and so David and I have always tried to, well, I would say we tried very, very, very, very hard to compliment their character and their effort, but never their appearance.
Most of the times when you hear parents applauding and just talking about how good looking someone is, how beautiful they are, it's nothing that they did to earn. I mean, you'll hear something. My son is so tall and big and strong, and I'm like, he did nothing. God gave him that, you know, and if you happen to have a very small son like I do, and if that's what you're praising over here, what does that speak to this child? Or, you know, oh my goodness, you're so beautiful, and so we try to focus on their heart, the internal, their, you know, the stewardship of what God has given them, but never appearance. It's more taking care of the body, and we believe the important part of that is the heart and the soul. So, we just want them to have the goal of honoring the life that God entrusted to them, the body that God entrusted to them.
Laura Dugger: (37:08 - 37:21)
Such wise principles, and then when we think about spiritual life as well, what wisdom can you share for parents who want to help their children cultivate a flourishing spiritual life?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (37:22 - 39:19)
Well, one prayer for our children is that they would each have a faith of their own, you know, not one that's handed down, not a formula, you know, but a relationship with Jesus, and so with that in mind, we tried to focus on the heart of who Jesus is and not the rules of God. You know, we never wanted them to view God as this like scary judge, you know, with his gavel, like handing down these judgments, but a God who genuinely loves them regardless of what they do, and so we wanted that to be their own unique personal relationship, not one that looks like ours, acts like ours, you know, it's like this cookie cutter, so we encourage them just to pray naturally, not formula, you know, like formally, but we talked about God in a real casual way, like in our coming and our going, not this big Sunday conversation, you know, you have at the dinner table after church, but we wanted them to see our own dependence on God, which was every single day, and we wanted to create space for them to have their own unique personal faith, and one thing I've learned is that faith cannot be manufactured, but you can cultivate the soil where it grows, and I'll just say this really quick, in an effort to have them have a faith of their own, it was so neat, they all went to the same church, but their faith looks so differently, different from their siblings, and there was a time we had all four of them at one college in Athens, and so they're all there, and we were visiting, and I said, "Hey, well, you know, we'll go to church tomorrow morning, you know, with y'all," and they all kind of looked at me like I had three heads, and I thought, "Well, don't y'all go to church, please tell me I'll go to church," you know, that's not what they meant, they all four went to completely different churches, wow, I was mind blown, I was like, "This is the most ecumenical family I've ever met," like I was like, I had no idea that that is how different the relationships with the Lord are, as for what they were seeking in a church, and I was just so grateful for that.
Laura Dugger: (39:20 - 40:17)
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One other practical thing too, do you have just any tech tips, especially because you've raised so many teens already?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (40:17 - 42:06)
Oh, tech tips. You know, we had this big charging station in our kitchen, and so the kids had to put their phones there at night, and it would charge like all of them, and so we could see if the phone was not up at night, and there were some serious consequences if they broke those rules. I remember one time my daughter, after we went to bed, she snuck back downstairs and got her phone and brought it upstairs, and anyway, I kept getting these notifications come through on my iPad, and I was like, "What in the world?" Well, I didn't even realize the clouds, or it's over my head, but whatever reason, hers was beeping on mine, and so we went in there, and she had her phone under her pillow. She was texting somebody, and so when she got home from school that next day, her door was off of the hinges, and she was, you know, as a middle school girl, her privacy was so important. I was like, "You can change in the bathroom, you know, but you have shown us that you cannot earn privacy right now. You don't make the choices with it," but it is really hard.
I think a lot of people, their natural inclination is just to remove it all from them, but I hesitate to encourage anyone to do that, because the truth of the matter is the world we live in is full of technology, and if you just completely say you can't have it, and the next thing you know they're 18, they go off to college or whatever the age is, and you give it to them, they haven't been in the home where you've been training them up how to manage your time with it, put, you know, limits on the time, how much you can spend on it, that kind of thing, and so it's like you're never going to outsmart your children in technology. They're already smarter than you are, but it's like how can you help them with the time management, you know, letting, talking with them about like what they're putting before their eyes on the technology, that kind of thing. The same goes for TV. You know, we would never watch something in front of our children that we would want them to think is normal ever, you know, and so it's like it's not, we don't want to normalize that.
Laura Dugger: (42:07 - 42:33)
That's good, and really I'm hearing this theme, a key ingredient for everything we've discussed so far is actually a fruit of the spirit, self-control. So, knowing that discipline and self-control are actually going to lead to freedom, how can we help our children grow up to live an appropriately disciplined life?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (42:34 - 45:53)
Yeah, my dad used to say this thing all the time. He would say, "The slave to the compass has the freedom of the seas. The rest must sail close to the shore," and it's so true. I mean, we have, if you want to do that, you have to come under the authority of the boat. In other words, you can't just do whatever you want on a boat and be able to sail the whole ocean. It doesn't work that way. You have to follow the captain's orders, and you have to follow the mechanisms that make the ship move, right? And so, it's like, but if you do that, if you master that, if you're a slave to the compass, to the sails, so the way the boat works, you can have the freedom of the seas. And the same is true of discipline and of self-control, right? We must exhibit that in order to have freedom.
And so, when our children exhibited obedience and discipline and self-control, we then gave them more freedom, you know, more responsibilities. And then when they didn't follow instructions, like my daughter with the cell phone, you know, they didn't do what was expected of them. We pulled in the reins a little bit. Dave Ramsey, years and years ago, before I, my children were older, he shared the analogy of the rope, and I loved it because he said, you know, the more your children exhibit responsibility, making the right choices, they're being obedient, you let out that rope. And that one end, it's almost like you've got a rope around their waist. You're letting it out, letting them experience more independence. But then the second that they don't do that, you kind of rein it back in. If they make a poor choice, they stay out past their curfew, whatever it might be, you pull it back in. And so, it's a very important analogy for his family.
So important though, when his oldest daughter went off to college, Rachel, you know, she goes off to college, he wraps up this beautiful gift, and it was a rope. And it was the rope with the round. And he said, and it had, he tied things on it, like she went to Tennessee, I think. So, it had like an orange thing on it. And then it had the colors of her high school and all these things that represented her life. And he said, "Hey, for 18 years, I've been holding on to this end of the rope. But now it's time I let it go. And I'm giving it to you; you're going to manage that rope all on your own." And so, it meant the world to her because they knew how important and so she put it on her doorknob in her dorm room. And every time she left and entered, she saw that, you know, that rope realizing that she was responsible for how far she let that thing out and how far she pulled that in. And so, discipline, self-discipline is huge.
You know, at the end of the day, we just wanted to show our children that discipline and self-control, it isn't a restriction, right? It's the pathway to freedom. And I've got to tell you; my kids are more disciplined than I am. I mean, my two oldest sons are 26 and 25. And they set timers on their phone. And so, they literally can only and each other has the passcode so they can't even override it. They can only be on their phone for three hours a day at all for anything. And they do it during the hours where they're at work, so that they know they can't be on it anyway. I mean, it's already self-limiting. And it's like they know that this is a temptation, they don't want to waste that time. And so, and when you see a child when you train up a child and discipline, it's amazing how it spills over into other areas. You know, they both are very disciplined with how many books they read, how far they run every day. Like, I mean, they're very disciplined individuals, because I think it's contagious. You know, that just self-discipline just kind of permeates all the other areas of your life as well.
Laura Dugger: (45:54 - 46:06)
And that is so encouraging, because I guess I just envision like, we're planting seeds, and we've gotten to hear a few of the seeds that you planted. And now it grows up even bigger than you could have probably ever asked or imagined.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (46:06 - 46:22)
Oh, yeah. I mean, sometimes their discipline frustrates me, because like, I'll need to talk to them, and they're on like a 23-mile run, and they can't talk or, you know, like, I'll want to call them. And they're like, "Mom, I can't use my phone right now." And I'm like, "Come on," you know, but they are, they are disciplined. I just drives me crazy sometimes.
Laura Dugger: (46:23 - 46:36)
Oh, I love that so much. So, Elizabeth, as parents, what else can we do now to help our kids eventually reach maturity and independence as adults?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (46:37 - 51:07)
Yeah, I mean, again, I can't say it enough. Childhood is meant to be the training ground for independence. So, every single day, they are training you or you are training them. And it's like, are you training them up for independence, maturity? Are you training them up to be dependent upon you? Are you teaching them that your proximity is what keeps them safe? And it's like, okay, so we're going to make these choices when they're young, might be harder on us, because I have mom say to me all the time, you know, I mean, it's just easier when I do it. And I'm like, it is, or they're like, they'll never do a job as good as I do. They won't. But you know what, it's like, it doesn't matter. It's not about what's easy on us. It's what's best for them for the long run.
So, you know, goes back to that book we talked about, but you can really just think of Kay's book, you can really think about anything that you want to know that you want them to know how to do well and reach maturity and master whatever that is. And, you know, most people, not intentionally, but subconsciously think, oh my goodness, by magic at the stroke of their 18th birthday at midnight, you know, they're just going to know how to do these things. And they don't, they don't know how to do these things.
I mean, my oldest son went off to college and two weeks after he went off, I came back home and I was at Target. And I ran into this lady and who'd also dropped off her daughter. And she said to me, "How are you doing?" And I said, "I'm fine. How are you?" She goes, "I mean, are you, are you managing?" And I'm like, "Managing what?" And she's like, "Without your son." And I said, "Yes," she would help my son. She goes, "Well, I have to ask you how many times have you been up there?" And I said, "Since two weeks ago when we dropped them off?" And she said, "Yeah." And I said, "I haven't should I ask how many times you've been up there?" She was well, one time she called me because I forgot to teach her how to use her diabetic medicine. So, I had to drive and teach her how to do that. And I thought, okay, in my mind, I'm thinking that was kind of a really big deal to not know how to do. And then she said, "And then another time she called me, and she chewed me out because I didn't pack laundry detergent for her." And I thought, "Oh, you packed her stuff. She didn't do that." And she said, "Well, I mean, you know, I just was doing it for her." And she goes, "I had to tell her I did pack laundry detergent." And she said, "No, the only thing I've seen you pack are those little round things that I've seen you put in the dishwasher." Oh, no, this is what she tells me. And I was like that she's seeing you put in the dishwasher. She goes, "I had to tell her that laundry pods are made too. So, I had to go up and teach her how to do laundry." And then the third time I just missed her. So, I went up there, but I thought, wow, like we are training them to fly from us.
You know, that is the ultimate goal is that they are independent, that they can leave us. But the hardest thing about it is accepting that success. If you do it well, because that's the last thing you want to do is have your child not need you anymore. Moms thrive on being needed, particularly by our children. But honestly, that is what God gave them to us for so that they can go out and launch onto their own. So, we just started training them up as soon as we possibly could on little things like solving problems or managing their own schedules. That's a big one. You shouldn't be asking them what homework do you have? What tests do you have? What paper do you have? How can I help you? Don't do that tonight because you've got to do your homework. Let them manage their own schedules. Let them set their own alarms. If they oversleep it, there is a natural consequence. So, they won't keep doing that anymore.
And I mean, I had a daughter that slept through every alarm we ever set. It didn't matter how loud it was. So, I was not going to give into that. So, we literally bought an alarm that was a round ball. And on this round ball, it would be on the floor. And when her alarm would go off, it would roll away from her bed. And so, she couldn't not turn it off. She'd have to get out of bed to turn it off. And so, I mean, there's ways you can do it if you really want to. But, you know, training them up how to advocate for themselves. Most children don't know how to advocate for themselves, which is why the most recent stat right now on Fox News, I saw it two months ago, 29% of college graduates are taking their parents with them to their job interviews. 29% are taking their parents with them. They're 23 years old. Think about that. Let that set in. You know, teaching them how to shop for, prepare, cook meals. You have conflict, healthy conflict. Recover from mistakes. You know, try again. I mean, our job, I've already said it, but our job is not to make their lives easy. And it's not to do what's easy for us. It's to make them capable.
Laura Dugger: (51:10 - 51:38)
Wow. You have been so inspirational to learn from. And one more thing on that. When, if we're very encouraged, we're going to be more consistent and do this thoughtfully, intentionally. When we meet resistance from our kids, what encouragement do you have for us, regardless of their age, whether they're whining about it when they're younger, throwing a temper tantrum or giving attitude? What would you encourage us with there?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (51:38 - 54:03)
Well, it's not very encouraging, but you will meet resistance. You will. I mean, why would they ever, I mean, my kids had to make their own lunches starting in kindergarten. And my daughter Walker would come home every day and I'm the only one that has to make their own lunch, you know? And I'm like, "You know what? You get to put in your lunch, whatever you want. Every other child has to eat what their mom makes them eat." You know, I'm like trying to show her these things, but the truth is you are going to be met with resistance. But if it ever crosses that line into disrespect, that first and foremost needs to be handled first, without a doubt. There's never a reason for disrespect. And if you allow that disrespect in your sons, they will grow up to be men that disrespect their wives. If you allow that in your children, they will grow up to be employees that disrespect their employees. And on, you know, you reap what you sow. So, it's like, I am not going to allow that.
Having said that we make our chores on the whiteboard so that there is no nagging, there is no reminding, there is none of that. And so, we put it on there. They know it has to be done. And if it's not done, they don't sit down for dinner. And then once our kids hit middle school and they had practices after school and high school practices and things like that, they couldn't do it before dinner because they didn't get home until dinner or sometimes afterwards. So, it had to be done before they went to bed. And if they didn't, I didn't nag, I didn't get upset with them. But the next day when they walked up and saw the whiteboard, their second chore was incredibly time consuming and incredibly hard because they did not do the chore from the day before. Because again, we're modeling real life. Just because you had a full day doesn't mean you get to walk in the door, kick off your heels at night and just assert all your responsibilities. Not at all. You have to still do it. And so, it's like you've chosen to play these sports. You've chosen to do these travel things and you're still a part of this family. So, it's like encourage them in a way to do these things that doesn't impact you. Like you don't want to get into this, you know, match back and forth trying to explain to them why it's important. It's just a rule. It is what it is. That's why I like it on the whiteboard. There's no, there's no having to nag, having to check, but just don't allow the disrespect is the big thing when they kind of meet you with resistance. But again, what child's going to be like, "Sure, mom, I want to take on this." They're not going to, you know, I, like I said, my oldest, he did not enjoy doing all the things that he had to do. And there came a day he went to college and he was so grateful, so grateful that he knew how to do those things.
Laura Dugger: (54:04 - 54:07)
So, we're going for that long term. Thank you.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (54:07 - 54:09)
Always, always long game parenting.
Laura Dugger: (54:10 - 54:19)
Well, Elizabeth, you have given us so much in these weeks together, but where would you like to direct us to continue learning from you after this chat?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (54:19 - 54:49)
Well, if women live in Atlanta, we do have the exchange, which is local and coming, and I would love for them to come to that. We also have our podcasts on purpose with, which encourages women to live on purpose and with intention. You know, I just absolutely love connecting with women that want to live wholeheartedly this one beautiful life we've been given. So, I'd love for them to reach out to me on Instagram. I've got my personal handle as Octomama. I also have the exchange US and long game parenting.
Laura Dugger: (54:50 - 55:09)
Wonderful. We will provide all of those links in the show notes for today's episode. And I just have one more question for you. We are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for you today, Elizabeth, what is your savvy sauce?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (55:09 - 56:01)
My savvy sauce today, based on what we've spoken about, I would say to the women listening to the very best of your ability, it's going to be difficult. It is not going to be easy, but to the very best of your ability, stop over functioning for your children. And over functioning is simply doing for your children what they can and should be doing for themselves. And my favorite mantra that I tell moms all the time is just because you can do provide or give doesn't mean you should just because you can do provide or give, it doesn't mean you should. So, if you want to have grateful children, do less, not more. You want to raise children that have a respect for other people, do less, not more. If you want to raise dependable, reliable children, do less, not more. That's my savvy sauce for today.
Laura Dugger: (56:02 - 56:46)
Wow. Again, those words just being so countercultural, the ways you have given us so many ways to do that. And I am continuously struck by your thoughtfulness and intentionality and your self-discipline to implement all of this. I just wonder someday when you get to heaven, if God will get to show you, look at these generations that were impacted because of your obedience and then your generosity and willingness to share it with all of us. I pray that we take this and run with it and may the Lord continue to do a mighty work in and through you. So, thank you for the gift that these two weeks have been. Just thank you for being my guest.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (56:47 - 56:51)
Well, absolutely. Thank you so much. And thank you for that visual because that really would be amazing.
Laura Dugger: (56:52 - 1:00:39)
Thank you. Thanks, Elizabeth.
One more thing before you go.
Have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you.
But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own.
So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much.
He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what he has done for us.
Romans 10:9 says, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. So, would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place.
I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity.
In Jesus name we pray. Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him.
You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned.
So, you ready to get started? First, tell someone. Say it out loud.
Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.
You can start by reading the book of John. Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process. And finally, be encouraged.
Luke 15:10 says, in the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents. The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with.
You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Aug 10, 2026
Aug 10, 2026
54 min
Long-Game Parenting with Elizabeth Pehrson (Episode 295)
Exodus 23:20 NLT “See, I am sending an angel before you to protect you on your journey and lead you safely to the place I have prepared for you.”
*Transcription Below*
Elizabeth Pehrson is a speaker, podcaster and founder of The Exchange. She’s a yellow sanguine, who is full of energy and lives life wide-open! She loves Jesus and meaningful connections. Elizabeth is married to David and mother of EIGHT children, who range from high school to graduated from college.
Follow her online:
Instagram: @long_game_parenting or @octomama or @theexchangeus
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.m.pehrson
Thank you to our sponsor: Sam Leman Eureka
Questions and Topics We Cover:
- What is our role, as parents, in making an effort to help our children have a positive relationship with their siblings?
- What are ways we can positively shape our children to have strong and healthy relationships with friends?
- How can we help our children uncover, articulate, and pursue their purpose in life?
Other Savvy Sauce Episodes Mentioned:
75 Responding to God’s Stirring with Elizabeth Pehrson, Founder of The Exchange, Part Two
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
Music: (0:00 – 0:10)
Laura Dugger: (0:11 - 1:54)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka.
Owned and operated by the Bertschi family, Sam Leman and Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at lemangm.com. My returning guest for today is the very energetic, married mother of eight, and founder of The Exchange, Elizabeth Pearson.
I highly recommend that, first of all, you find the link in the show notes to start with our first two episodes together that we did a while back. They focus primarily on raising younger children, but today we're going to focus on parenting teens and beyond in hopes of launching faithful and healthy adults someday. So, with that goal in mind, we're going to begin by discussing relationship-building strategies to foster a life of rightly ordered affections, where we're all loving God and loving others as ourselves.
Then we're going to move into some more actionable ways to ensure our family delights in the abundant life in Christ. Here's our chat.
Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (1:55 - 1:57)
Well, thank you so much for having me. What a joy.
Laura Dugger: (1:58 - 2:23)
Well, I'm just going to start with something that's a little tricky because we obviously cannot control the outcome, but we can be faithful to our calling as parents. So, Elizabeth, do you have any practical tips for helping our children rightly order their affections so that they'll hopefully grow up to love God?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (2:23 - 4:52)
Yes. I appreciate you asking with the disclaimers because I do think that that's an important thing because, first of all, I just want to say that I hope that every single woman listening can understand, believe, and trust that God loves our children way more than we do. And as much as we want to control the outcome or guarantee the outcome with our children, we can't.
All we can do is just be faithful to the children that God's entrusted to us. And when it comes to ordering our children's affections, I would basically just say it can't be forced. It can't be image-driven.
And I say that because, unfortunately, I see that a lot in Christian homes today, a lot. And I think one of the most helpful shifts for me in realizing that I cannot control anything when it comes to my children is that I can shape the environment where their loves are formed. That's one thing that is in my control.
That is something that I can do. And a few practical ways that you can do this, and first I'm going to say this a lot, the most important things that we can offer our children are caught, they're not taught. And we have to model it more than we preach it because our children are incredible observers.
And they notice what we prioritize. They notice what interrupts us. They notice what doesn't interrupt us.
And if God's something we only talk about on Sundays, then they feel that. But if they see us turning to Him when we're anxious, when we're grateful, when we're confused, they start to associate God with real life, not just rules. And second, I would just say, I think it's super important to help our kids understand what's worthy of love, right?
I mean, I think we should talk openly with our kids about sports, friends, achievements, you know, how those can be gifts, but they are terrible gods. And also, that they're very, very, very short-sighted. It's not typically, I would say, not typically the so-called bad things that are stealing our affections.
It's usually the good things that are just not often the best things. And so that I would say, like when I watch my children, oftentimes it would be them loving a good thing too much, you know. Most importantly, I would just say that if our kids or your kids or the listeners' kids grow up knowing the heart of God rather than the rules of God, I think their affections will know where to turn.
Laura Dugger: (4:53 - 5:04)
Oh, that's so well said. And do you have any ideas for characteristics that will help foster a healthy parent-child relationship?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (5:05 - 8:07)
Oh, goodness. I would say, you know, so many things. I think children thrive when they feel safe, when the home feels predictable, when it feels secure, and especially when we listen more than we lecture.
You know, when we can do that, they will feel understood and they won't feel constantly corrected. You know, I grew up in a home that I'm very grateful for, but in my home, love often felt transactional. If I did this, then that.
But, you know, we all know that love isn't something that is earned. You know, it's freely given. And so, our love and affection should never be tied to performance or behavior.
But again, unfortunately, what I see on a regular daily basis is that moms are more codependent on their children than ever before. And because of that, they see their children's behavior as a reflection of themselves. And so that love can become a little bit transactional.
But I would say, practically speaking, I think there's lots of things that encourage a healthy parent-child relationship. And, you know, we could go through a whole list of these things. But the first thing I would say is not being their friend yet.
Down the road, but not yet. You know, we'll have time for that later. But if we treat them as peers right now while they're in the home, authority isn't a value at all that is taught to be respected.
It isn't. And, you know, another thing would be just basic consistent boundaries because structure is actually what creates freedom, right? Open communication, you know, where hard conversations can be had.
And I'm going to tell you, this is something that we were not the best at, but we found ourselves consistently apologizing for, you know, avoiding that hard conversation and then having come back to it. That was a big one. You know, repair after conflict.
That's huge because it is so important for our kids to see us model, you know, owning our mistakes, apologizing for it, you know, when we mess up because that teaches the kids that our relationships can bend without breaking. And the last thing I thought of when I thought about this question was respect for autonomy. And I say that because healthy relationships are ones where we allow our kids to grow and evolve.
But a lot of times we want to keep them stuck in whatever that age, whatever that stage is. And children need to be allowed age-appropriate independence. They need to be allowed age-appropriate freedom, you know, constantly just letting that rope out little by little by little and, you know, knowing that parents eventually will just get to the place where they can guide mentor without instructing, you know, our, our goal for them is their own autonomy and their own independence.
Laura Dugger: (8:09 - 8:28)
That's so good. It makes me even think recently I was reading something about leave and cleave and leaving is breaking all dependencies. And I thought that's kind of the kindness of the Lord that we do that a little by little.
Every year, probably of parenting.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (8:29 - 9:51)
Oh, it's, it's the truth. And it's interesting that you say that because one, we have an 18-year-old boy that's graduating. And my husband and I were just talking, we think it's the goodness of the Lord because what we've noticed, not disrespect, but just this pulling away as he's, you know, nearing graduation, really wanting more independence, not necessarily telling us where he's going to be just, you know, he's not going to be able to go to college.
And then we're like, “Oh, I went to so-and-so's house.” And after the fact, and in, in a way when our first son started doing that, I was like, “You know what? He's not, he still lives in this, you know, in this home under this roof.”
But it's like my husband said, “You know, it's almost like God's goodness that allows him to pull away a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. So that when he does leave in August, end of July, It makes it a little bit easier. You know?”
And then that leave and cleave thing, you said, “I have a son that lives in Houston and he's the lead part just fine, independent, separate, but now he's cleaving to someone else as he's met a girl and that part has been hard for me.” It's like, whoa, like that's a whole, that's like next level, you know, where they no longer, you're no longer the one they call for advice. You're no longer the woman in their life, so to speak.
And so, it's been a lot of growing pains, but it's all, again, it's exactly what God designed when we raise our kids.
Laura Dugger:: (9:51 - 10:28)
But you're right, it's both and it's beautiful, but it's hard and very difficult to go through. It makes me think one of my top 10 of all-time favorite episodes was with Annie Chapman and she wrote the mother-in-law dance. And so, I'll link to that episode as well in the show notes, but I think it was very helpful for even preparing now what that's going to look like someday.
Yep. But as we come back to focusing on today, Elizabeth, what is our role as parents in making an effort to help our children have a positive relationship with their siblings?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (10:29 - 14:01)
Oh, goodness. Having eight children, you know, they have a lot of siblings and ever since our kids were little, David and I just have prayed over and over and over again, one, that they would know, love, and serve God, two, that they would stay close to each other, and then three, that they would seek joy in everything they do. And so, because one of our prayers is that they would stay close to each other, we did everything we could to shape environments that fostered connection with their siblings, with each other.
And that could look like we moved their rooms a lot of times, like who they shared with at different seasons of their life. We mixed them up with different brothers or different sisters, outings or trips where we would take just a couple of them, not all of them, but we mixed that up. You know, we never, ever, ever put up with disrespect or mistreatment of each other.
That one is a huge one, or their belongings for that matter. But that's so important not to allow your children to offer disrespect or display disrespect to their siblings. A lot of people think, oh, it's just their kid, you know, their siblings, they feel most comfortable with him.
That's totally normal, but it really does start at home. Another thing I think of is that we talked as a whole, our family as a team, as a unit. You know, we were a family unit.
It's not like one pitted against the other. We were on the same team. And although if my children were here, I am certain that one or more of them would say that they felt compared to at times, but we really did our best not to compare our children because comparison breeds rivalry faster than anything.
It really, really does. And we also tried to think about each individual child, you know, like, hey, this is your unique gift. This is your strength.
This is an asset, you know, an asset to the team, not just to you individually, but as a family as a whole. And the last thing I would say is everyone laughs because we had family A and then we had family B. And that's the first four kids and the second four kids.
And we taught them to serve each other. You know, the older kids were paired with the younger child, a younger sibling, and they had to help them. Sometimes it wasn't even help serving them, but it was doing a chore together.
We'll get to this later, I think. But chores are huge in our home. And when they turn nine, they have to mow the yard.
And we had we lived on three and a half acres. And so, we had a riding lawnmower. And when my nine-year-old son, my third son turned nine, he wasn't quite heavy enough to keep the mower going, you know, because you have to be heavy enough.
Otherwise, it shuts it off. And when he would lean to put his foot on the gas, it would shut it off. So, my three-year-old boy, his chore was to sit behind him and just hold on, you know, for the hour and a half it took him to mow the yard.
And, you know, we paired them together a lot. But at the end of the day, we can require respect, but we just can't force friendship. I have two daughters that are only 15 months apart.
When they were little, they were attached at the hip. I mean, where one went, the other one went. But now that they're older and they're both in college at the same college, their personalities are very different.
Their interests are very different. And they aren't as close as they once were, but they love each other. They respect each other.
And, you know, we just have to be OK with that, you know.
Laura Dugger: (14:02 - 14:40)
That makes sense because there's different seasons to everything. I think you can see that with siblings who pair up with each other. And I'm sure that changes throughout their whole life.
Yeah, I want to go back. There's a few things that I want to follow up on. One of them was codependency with mothers and their children.
And the other one is already escaping me now. So, I'll try and recall that one. But can you share a little bit more of either why you think it is that way more today or what that might look like if we're codependent with our children and maybe unaware of that?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (14:41 - 16:35)
All I can say is that I meet with women on a regular basis and 9.9 times out of ten there, they see their children as a reflection of themselves. So, when they make wise choices, they tend to tend to get puffed up. When they don't, they kind of bow back in shame or regret.
Or I can't believe this. But the truth of the matter is they are independent, you know, separate from you. And most moms don't know where they end and where the child begins.
We're entering graduation season. And I cannot tell you the number of moms that are like, “Oh, oh, this is so hard, this graduation thing.” And I'm like, but you're not graduating.
Like, you know, the kids have the responsibility of all the different things they have to do. But you don't. They've already you know, you've already graduated.
Let them enjoy this separate from you. But they can't do it. They're a part of every single aspect of their daughter or their son's life.
And when that happens, you know, every home run is so important. Every grade they make is so important. And I am all about long, long term, you know, long term parenting.
And it is not that it has nothing to do with a long-term person of character that they will become. So, if moms can see where they are separate, it is so beneficial for the child as well as the mom. You know, I met with a mom the other day and she's like, well, I'm not codependent, but my daughter is.
And I said, “Well, tell me more about this.” And she said, “Well, she calls me. She's in college and she calls me 10 times a day.”
And I said, “OK, well, let me ask you, how many times do you answer?” And she's kind of looked at me and she goes, “Well, she might need something.” And I said, “She can call back.”
She can text 911. But when you're so readily available to your child, it just fosters that dependency, you know, of your child on you. And it's so unhealthy.
Laura Dugger: (16:36 - 16:51)
And I did hear a mom tell me one time when we, I think, had very little children. She said, “You want to ultimately work that dependency off of you and onto the Lord where they are first going to him, which is a lifelong job.”
Elizabeth Pehrson: (16:51 - 18:23)
It is a lifelong job. There's a funeral service. It's going to sound morbid, but I watched it because it was so impactful to me.
I didn't even know this lady, but I watched it four times, this service that was online out of Florida. And the daughters were speaking and they said, “The best thing that they did, the very best thing that she did for them was to teach them their complete dependence on the Lord.” And she said, “She had cancer and she knew she was passing away.”
And she said, “Girls, don't be sad for me. I am going to be with my heavenly father rejoicing, singing his praises.” And she said, “If I have taught you to rely solely on me, then I've done a really bad job.”
I want your sole dependence to be on your heavenly father. But unfortunately, what I see again is just meeting with these women. We teach them that our presence is what keeps them safe or are, you know, being close proximity, especially with the cell phone.
You know, there's a lot of researchers that call it the longest umbilical cord because it keeps us in contact with him 24 seven. It's so sad. I mean, I interviewed some teachers at a middle school because they don't no longer allow cell phones.
You have to put it in the basket. Now there are some schools that are making you just not even bring it in. But I'm not even exaggerating when I tell you.
They would tell me that the children have two cell phones. The parents would give them two; one so they could put it in the basket and two so that the parents could be able to reach them at a moment's notice. Wow.
It's a real thing. I'm not making this up.
Laura Dugger: (18:24 - 18:26)
That is crazy.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (18:26 - 18:59)
Just to think in not that many years, how different that is from, you know, I ask moms all the time, would you have loved it if your mom had a low jack on you, like tracking your every move? I mean, because what happens is when you do that in middle school, high school, then they go off to college. I meet with moms every single day.
They're like, oh, my goodness, I'm so tired. I didn't go to bed till three o'clock last night. And I'm like, why?
Well, because I have like 360 on my child in college and she didn't get home till three, so I couldn't go to sleep. That's a normal everyday thing.
Laura Dugger: (19:01 - 19:38)
Wow. And OK, for those situations, what would you recommend instead of that? And I guess if I could throw this in, I just was at a reunion with some graduate school friends, and we are all therapists or that's what we studied.
And we were just sharing how truly we've seen this play out. What we learned back in grad school was that if there's anxiety about something, avoidance never works. You have to even if it's micro dosing, you have to go through it rather than around it or avoid it.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (19:38 - 20:32)
Oh, yes. And I mean, I'm sure you've read the book, The Most Anxious Generation of All Time. I mean, that's where we are.
And it stems, in my opinion, my humble opinion from the parents who are so anxious because they are codependent, because they are over involved in their children's life. And, you know, quite honestly, it's like the moms are so involved in their children's lives that when the last child leaves, you see the highest divorce rate is after the last emancipation of the last child. Once that child leaves, it's like, I have no life.
I have no identity. I have no purpose. And I certainly don't have relationship with my husband because my focus has been with my children.
And so, the moms that are anxious, the moms that are just so overbearing, over controlling are the ones that, in my opinion, are fostering those types of relationships with their children, the anxious ones. They can't do anything without their parents.
Laura Dugger: (20:33 - 22:06)
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And so, do you have any tips if they're recognizing that in themselves today? What's just one turning point that could happen?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (22:07 - 23:29)
Well, I would say and I hope that they're willing to take it. Most women that I meet with will recognize that they are. And then they're like, but you don't understand.
Or but I just can't go to sleep or there's a, but you know why I can't. But I would say whatever that is, that has a hold on you, that you're still holding on to your 18, 19, 20, 21, 26-year-old child, whatever it is, they're adults. I mean, legally, they are adults at 18.
But yet whatever that is, that's holding you, keeping you attached to them, whether it's causing you to lose sleep, whether it's causing anxiety. You absolutely have to make that separation in that area. And so, you know, for the one that's got the Life360, 24 seven. Hey, give it to your husband.
You take it off your phone and they will be able to know how to figure out where your child is, should there be a need, you know, but you're hyper fixating on it, take that away. If it is a cell phone and you're calling your child every single day about everything, all that's doing is teaching your child that they can't do it on their own without you. And they have Google, you know, they have the Internet.
I didn't have that when I went away and I didn't have a cell phone, but I figured it out. So, it's like whatever it is that has a hold on you. I would encourage the mom just to make that separation in that one area and then start there.
Laura Dugger: (23:30 - 23:34)
Love it. And I did think of the other thing that I wanted to circle back with.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (23:35 - 23:35)
What is this?
Laura Dugger: (23:35 - 23:49)
So, you had mentioned, yes, you taught your children respect one another in the home, but also respecting their belongings or property. Can you just share a little bit more of how you did that in your philosophy of why that was important?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (23:50 - 25:40)
Oh, absolutely. I would tell you that David, my husband, and I firmly believe that respect for siblings, for coaches, for teachers, for peers, for their parents is hands down the foundation of every other principle that you can instill in your children, because if you respect them, you know, I mean, there are certain cultures and generations that respect their elderly. We're not a culture that does that.
And it's like if you respect them, you hold the door for them. You'll get up and give them your seat. You would never, you know, misuse their things, their belongings.
So, with the second that we saw any amount of disrespect, whether it was to us, like, say, if one of my children said something to me that was disrespectful, whether it was a tone, it might not have been the words. It could be a tone. It could be the volume of his voice, whatever it might be.
My husband would step in and say, “Hey, son. That's my wife. I don't allow anyone to speak like that to her.”
And then therefore, there would be like a consequence for it. And so, I mean, it might be that or at the risk of being too TMI or too vulgar. I had one son that had the urge to go to the bathroom, pee wherever he wanted to.
And one time he peed on his sister's blanket, her blankie, because he was mad at her. Let me tell you something. He will never forget it.
I don't remember what the punishment was at the time, but he got one. He never went to the bathroom anywhere again other than the toilet. You know, it's like, no, no, no, you cannot do that.
I mean, it's the foundation of the golden rule. You know, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. But children think they can get away with it.
And then parents justify it by saying, “Oh, but they're only three. Oh, but they're only six. Oh, they didn't really mean it.”
Well, you know what? That's where you've set the foundation right there. Three, five, six, whatever the age, so that when they grow up, they will respect their coaches, their employers, their teachers.
Laura Dugger: (25:40 - 25:55)
You know, so good. OK, so another relational question, then what are ways that we can help or support positively shaping our children to have strong and healthy relationships with their friends?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (25:56 - 29:02)
Yeah, I think that is such an important question. It was the very first verse we had our children memorize when they were itty bitty, you know, he who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm because research shows that we are the sum of the five people that we hang out with the most. So, who those five are in their circle, it is so important.
You know, it in our opinion, it is essential to model for our children what healthy friendships look like, because, again, they learn that by watching us. It goes back to what's caught, you know, not the top principle. And I think it's essential to have them around other children their own age as often as possible, because I think we can use friendship with their peers, not their parents, not their grandparents, but with peers.
Then we can use those examples and those situations to teach them to include others, to take turns, to read body language, to notice when something's wrong with one of your friends, right? To apologize. Ask for forgiveness too, hey, this one's doing something completely different than I would do, but let's celebrate that.
And a big one is navigating disappointment and hurt. You know, I mean, that's going to inevitably happen with our children and their friendships. So those roles are so important because we can use those experiences to help train and equip them.
You know, for us, our goal was never, ever, ever about popularity. Matter of fact, I don't even like the word. I don't like the you know what it stands for.
But for us, it was really just to focus on their character and the heart issues. So, because of that, we would ask them, you know, not who are you friends with and who do you know, but things like who did you include at lunch today? Did you notice anyone sitting alone?
Did you say anything to them? What kind friend or what kind of thing did you do for a friend today? And, you know, as far as like how we model that for our children and try to encourage that with them, it's going to cause a sacrifice on our end, right?
I mean, when we're allowing and I mean, we might have to take time driving them to, you know, a good friend's house that lives far away or it might be hosting events. It might be goodness. I mean, every mom knows that we've had to wait on our children and wait and wait and wait and whatever that looks like.
But, you know, just modeling that for our children and setting that environment and that groundwork so that they can have these friendships. It's going to be a sacrifice for every single mom. We can and we'll have to sacrifice our comfort.
We'll have to sacrifice our convenience. Right. A louder house, extra groceries, wet towels, muddy shoes like the list could go on and on and on.
But, you know, I know that there have been times when I would hope I would host things in my home, but I would rather be resting, you know, but I can't because I have a house full of 30 kids or staying home because there needs to be a parent there when I'd rather be out on a date with my husband. You know, there's lots of sacrifices that we're going to have to make. But I just think it's super, super important. That we do.
Laura Dugger: (29:03 - 29:25)
Well, and I love hearing that side of it. I'm assuming you're such a both and person, too. What did you make sure that you didn't sacrifice?
Because I never hear you saying I only sacrificed for my kids so it could be better for them. But you were healthy all throughout raising them. So, does that make sense?
How did you balance your own?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (29:25 - 30:36)
No, and I appreciate you saying that, but I'm certain that there were times when I was tired, when I was selfish and that I didn't do the wise thing. But I will say that that it is so important not to sacrifice yourself because, you know, you can hear it in the analogies of, you know, you can't you can't give what you don't have. You got to fill yourself up first.
And it's all true. You know, the oxygen mask on the airplane before you give it to your children, it's so important. But I equally think it's important for your children to see.
I'm not going to be at home at dinner tonight because you know what? I'm with my besties. I'm with my girlfriends tonight.
That is important to me. Loving one another and being with one another is spoken of more in scripture than parenting, more than marriage. I mean, it is spoken of over and over and over again.
So, I want them to see that, “Hey, tonight I'm going to sacrifice time at home and I'm going to go out, be with my girlfriends”. So, there's definitely some things you have to sacrifice. But I don't want a woman to be so depleted because she's constantly giving, giving, giving, giving, giving that again, when she when their children graduate and leave home, they don't even know who they are.
They've lost sight of who God created them to be.
Laura Dugger: (30:36 - 30:39)
I appreciate your balance in that.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (30:39 - 30:41)
It's always and in both.
Laura Dugger: (30:41 - 30:43)
Yes, it really is.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (30:43 - 30:43)
It is.
Laura Dugger: (30:44 - 30:53)
How do you think we can help our kids uncover and articulate and pursue their purpose in life?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (30:54 - 32:55)
Purpose is huge for me. I'm sure you know that. It's the name of my podcast.
It's why I started the exchange. But I have to tell you, I meet with women every single day, grown women, 40s, 50s, 60s, even 70s that still do not know their purpose. They don't know who they are.
So realistically, for our children, I don't want to have anyone, you know, mom beat themselves up because it does take time to help them understand, you know, who they are, why God put them here, what their purpose is. And I will say some of my kids will grasp it before others. You know, I have a son that just graduated UGA, and he still is contemplating, you know, what does God have for my life?
But as far as purpose goes, whether it's your young children, whether it's your high school children trying to figure out, do I go to college? Do I not go to college? You know, what do I major in?
All of those things. But for anyone, I want to say that it's important that they know their purpose is not what they do. But the why behind what they do.
And if someone is unsure of what that is or, you know, why they do something, I would encourage them to ask questions. That's my biggest thing. When I meet with women, when I talk with them, just ask questions, ask questions.
I mean, we don't have the answers, but to ask questions. And so, I'll ask my children, you know, when they're contemplating some of these things, “Hey, what makes you come alive? What lights you up?”
You know, who do you love to serve? What could you do for hours, hours, and hours and lose track of time? For an older woman, I would say, what did you love to do as a child?
You know, maybe what do other people say to you? Man, you make that look effortless. You are so good at fill in the blank.
What keeps you up at night? What breaks your heart? I think the answer to all of those questions lead us ultimately to what God uniquely put in our hearts to do and how he created us.
You know, when he created each one of us, he gave us something that he wants us to offer to the world. And whatever that is, I would say will lead you to your purpose.
Laura Dugger: (32:56 - 33:00)
And do you have yours articulated that you want to share with us?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (33:00 - 34:41)
Oh, it took me a long time to go, God, who did you create me to be? And asking some of those questions, it's so interesting. So, you know, I speak, I speak, you know, at the exchange and in the last 10 years, I've started speaking more at churches and other places, and it's my absolute favorite thing to do.
It lights me up. I find great joy in it. It comes natural to me.
And one day when I was asking this woman, I'm like, let me ask you, what did you love to do as a child? Like, what could you just do for hours and hours? And she's like, well, I don't know.
Can you give me some examples? And she said, what did you love to do? And it was like this light bulb went off.
And my mom was very, very, very girly. And I had three older brothers. I was not.
And my mom wanted me to be very girly. So, she would give me for every birthday, Christmas, Easter, Flag Day. It didn't matter what the holiday.
I got a Madame Alexander doll. It's this doll that has it's like on a stand and it just sits there like you don't play with it. You don't you just look at it.
I don't know the purpose of these dolls. I don't know why anyone would want one. But when I tell you I had 100 of them, I literally had 100 of them.
And so, when I was thinking back to what did I love to do as a child instinctively, no one told me to do it. I would get home after school, and I would pull out all of these dolls and I would put them on my bed and I would line them up and I would talk to them. I would tell them all about my day, what I learned, what someone taught me, the injustices of being the only girl in the family, what I'm going to do when I'm older.
And I literally that's what I did for hours. And it was like this light bulb went off. It's like God put that in me.
I was encouraging my dolls. I was talking to them. I was, you know, hopefully motivating them, inspiring them.
Obviously, they couldn't move. But that's what I do now. And encouraging women is my purpose.
Laura Dugger: (34:42 - 35:27)
I love that story so much. That's amazing. Do you love The Savvy Sauce?
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Elizabeth, do you have any tips for how we can influence our children to become lifelong learners?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (35:28 - 39:29)
Yes, I think it's super important to encourage that in your children. But I also don't think there's a formula for it because some children are naturally more curious. Some are naturally more inquisitive.
I do think it's super important to recognize that, you know, what it is that they want to learn. They want to study because it's going to be different for your children. So, you might not think that they're a learner or someone that's curious, but they're just not curious about what you're curious about.
Right. My oldest son reads a biography of presidents and historical figures all the time. He tries to get through one a week.
I couldn't think of more boring reading, but he loves, loves it. He just takes it all in. He knows all the facts and stats on presidents.
But what's funny is when he was two years old, he could name all of the presidents in order at two years old. I couldn't even do it. I had to hold up the placemat to make sure, you know, that he was right.
I have another son that studies history, loves it, just absolutely loves it. And I have a daughter who probably the one that's most like me. But I will tell you that she will be a lifelong learner of people the rest of her life.
That is her passion. She's curious. She's inquisitive.
She's always asking questions of people. And as long as we know that ultimately, it's just going to be up to them. Some are going to be great learners.
Naturally, others won't be. But I would say if you wanted me to point to something again, it just comes back to modeling it, you know, for our children, because children copy what we love, not what we lecture. They copy what we love, not what we lecture every single time.
And I remember when one time when my kids were little, they wanted me to plant a garden. And I don't know what the opposite of a green thumb is, but that's what I have. I'm like the opposite of that.
And I had no idea. Like, you dig up the grass, you till the soil. Like, when do you plant?
How do you even grow a vegetable? I had no idea. But I said, “You know what? I don't know how to do this, but let's figure it out together.”
We'll figure it out together. And, you know, I suggest that moms would say things to their kids like, I just listened to this podcast, and it really challenged my thinking.
I had never thought of it this way before. Or I don't know anything about that topic you want to talk about, but let's find out, let's dive in and look, go to the library or, you know, whatever it might be. And lastly, I would just say that it really comes down to praising effort, not performance, because if you're saying you're so smart, you know so much about that or you're so wise in that area.
It really is. It doesn't do them anything other than teach them a performance based. Right.
So, it's like I want to say the things the things to them. Like, I am so proud of you when you didn't know what you were doing. You stuck with it.
You figured it out because I think that is a growth mindset instead of like instead of driving in performance anxiety. Like, I don't know how to do this. I didn't figure it out.
I can't. You know, we really want them like, hey, I don't know what it is, but I'll figure it out. You know, and I just think when learning really becomes about grades, achievement, success, whatever it is, curiosity dies, does.
So, it's like at the dinner table. I remember David and I would ask questions of the kids, and we would ask them things like, what did you fail at today? Like, what did you mess up today?
Like, what surprised you today that you didn't know yesterday? And then David and I would share as well. Like, let me tell you what I learned.
Let me tell you where I messed up at work. And it's just important to normalize not having all the answers. You know, one of our big parenting mantras is don't bail, let them fail.
And I think it is so important because we don't want to rescue our children. You know, we want them to not know how to do something so that they can figure it out and then just learn as they go. You know, because that's really where confidence grows.
It grows through problem solving and learning things the hard way.
Laura Dugger: (39:30 - 40:01)
Wow, there's so much there. I love I'll kind of summarize a few things. So being curious ourselves, modeling it, having our own interests and sharing those ideas, but I hear this theme of questions, asking our kids questions.
I think that develops critical thinking. But then you helped identify with them what their interests were. And I think that will naturally lead to being a lifelong learner if we find what we're interested in.
You said all of your kids might be different once they found that. They'll probably be lifelong learners in those areas.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (40:01 - 40:32)
For sure. And I guess what I meant by some or more so than others like my first born, he is a five on the Enneagram. And so, his he wants to know how everything works and studies it and researches it for hours before he makes a decision where I have some other children that are like, you know, instead of ready, set, go, it's more like go, set, ready, you know, and I'll figure it out later.
I don't care. But he's just naturally more inquisitive to want to know how things work. What makes things tick?
Why does the world work the way it works? You know, that kind of thing.
Laura Dugger: (40:33 - 40:44)
Well, I don't know if this goes together or if you would share something different. But do you think there are any ways that we can help our children recognize and utilize their spiritual gifts?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (40:46 - 44:02)
Yeah, when I think about spiritual gifts, I kind of think it goes back to the purpose question that we talked about earlier. You know, again, I know a lot of adults that don't know their spiritual gifts yet. They're still questioning.
They're still I'm not really sure is it this or this or I don't know where to lean in. And it's hard for parents to help their children find their spiritual gifts when they don't know theirs, you know, or they don't know how God wired them or what he placed deep inside of them. But one thing that I would offer when you're trying to help your children with that is just as parents just notice things about your children, but notice them out loud.
What God's already doing in your children, notice them out loud, speak them out loud, like pay attention. Which child comforts the crying sibling who organizes the game so that everybody feels included? Who asks deep questions about faith or which child senses when someone, you know, is left out?
You know, those are all clues as to how God wired them and what's deep inside of them. And, you know, you can say things as simple as you know, you know, I noticed you have a gift for encouragement. You really are so good at that.
Or, hey, you know what? You notice what other people miss. That's amazing.
How do you do that? God is always giving you courage. You know, I have a son named Josh, and he's got this big Joshua one nine frame in his, you know, Bible verse in his room.
It's like God has given you a spirit of fear and but of courage and of sound mind, you know, and it's like we try to speak that courage into him or, you know, I have one son that always keeps us organized and on track. And we used to call him the traffic cop because he was always like this. But then I was like, no, that doesn't really speak life into him.
It's more of a judge. So, we were like, you know what? You are so organized.
You keep us on track. And I think when kids hear out loud like their strengths name, they begin to see them as gifts rather than just like, oh, that's just how I am. That's a person that, you know, personality court.
And as you're trying to speak those things out loud and let them see and notice things about themselves that maybe they didn't see. You can also give them opportunities to practice things like, hey, at the dinner table, you're going to pray out loud tonight for the family, for our meal, or, hey, I'd like you to help lead with our family dinner devotions or hey, you know what? I'm going to go serve this weekend at this project.
And I really want you to come alongside me and go with me. Maybe, hey, you know what? I noticed this younger sibling really needs encouragement today.
Could you just go and speak some encouragement to her? You know, handwritten notes. That's a big one in our family.
You know, literally handwritten notes, not just by a card and signing it. Love, Josh, you know, but to write out. And I think that's something that we can instill in our kids because that's a lost art.
But, you know, most importantly, more than any of that, I would say to remind your kids this gift, this spiritual gift that God has given you isn't for you. It's for someone else. Right.
A person of purpose, a hero, whatever you want to call it, is a person who takes who they are with what they have for the benefit of someone else. That's it. It's just like who they are with what they have for the benefit of someone else.
And when you do that, there's always a gift that you can offer somebody else.
Laura Dugger: (44:04 - 44:15)
Well, in another biblical topic, we know that it's a biblical command to be hospitable. So, were there any specific ways that you trained your children in hospitality?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (44:16 - 46:33)
Yeah. Hospitality was my mom's ultimate gift. It was probably the thing that she modeled the best for my brothers and for me.
We hosted foreign exchange students for months at a time. Every single Sunday. People don't believe me when I tell them this, but it's true.
Every single Sunday, we would invite a family home from church to have lunch with us that we did not know. It was never somebody that we knew. And so, on Saturday, we would prepare the house.
We would prepare the yard. We would cook the food as a family. Everybody had a role in it.
And then my dad would literally find a family that we did not know. And he would invite them home. And my parents always had their home open for Bible studies, for parties, for small groups, whatever, and whomever needed a space.
They made our home available. And I've just tried to do that for my children in my own ways because it looks very differently than, you know, the way my mom did it. But I basically think hospitality is simply just making room.
That's it. It's just making room, whether it's making room at your table, whether it's making room in your home. You know, a lot of moms are perfectionists, and they associate perfection with it.
My home's not clean enough. My home's not pretty enough. It's not perfect enough.
And so, then they don't want to do it. But I can just tell you honestly, with eight children, perfect wasn't an option, you know, anyway, but we did. We had an open-door policy for dinner.
We even had a sign on our garage door. It said dinner's at 6:30. All are welcome.
And so, anybody could come and show up to dinner any night of the week at 6:30. And all of our children, when we invited people over, everybody had to participate, not just those that were excited about it, but like the whole family, you know, whether it was setting the table, greeting the guests at the door, making eye contact and then asking them questions, clearing plates. I mean, just whatever it is.
We wanted every single person to be a part of it. And really, we just tried to say, hey, you know, this is going to cost you something, because sometimes generosity does. You might have to squeeze in at the dinner table and sit like this because we're all squeezed in and that's OK.
Or you might have three air mattresses on your floor tonight and you have to share your room. And I know you don't want to, but that's OK. I mean, it's like generosity is going to cost you something.
And we wanted our kids to know that.
Laura Dugger: (46:34 - 46:47)
Oh, such great examples. And do you have any other additional tips for ways that all of our family can actually delight in the abundant life that Christ has, that he's offered each one of us?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (46:49 - 48:59)
Yeah, I mean, again, I certainly do not have all the answers, and we could have made service projects and serving others more of a priority in our home, for sure. But I just I think that the abundant life in Jesus it is about serving others. It is about offering others what he's given you.
And, you know, we don't serve to earn love like we serve because we're already loved. I mean, that's really the bottom line. And that changes everything.
And so, I would just encourage families to start serving together, not as a punishment, you know, not as a obligation, but just as a way of life. It's what we do. It's who we are.
And so, because of that, the abundant life for us offering it to others looked like making meals, making cupcakes, making a cake and delivering it to people. We had elderly neighbors all in our street and we mowed their yards. We picked up pinecones.
We went to the grocery store and picked up their medicine for them. You know, we made, again, handwritten notes and cards, just very small, easy, tangible, ordinary things that we could do to love on others. And I would say, let them see your joy in what you're doing, because they children do not like drudgery.
They're just going to resist it. Right. It's like but if they see you delighting and feeling full, full after serving and then giving, they appreciate you know, they appreciate that they see the joy.
And so, it's just it's important. I just think all the way around just there's Andy Stanley always says, you know, following God's principles will make your life better and it will make your life make you better at life. And so, when we follow these principles, when we serve, when we celebrate the kids serving other people with a joyful heart, you know, we celebrate their impact, not their performance, not how grand it was, not how big it was.
But hey, you made someone feel loved today. That's a really big deal. That's a really big thing.
You're eight years old. Not everybody can do that. And I am so grateful that you love Jesus so much that you would be willing to do that.
So, I just think the abundant life comes from following God's principles. You know, it's not having more. It's just loving more.
Laura Dugger: (49:00 - 49:14)
Oh, love it. You have so much wisdom to share. So, before we press pause on this conversation, because we get to continue again next week, will you just let us know where we can go in the meantime to learn more from you?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (49:15 - 49:38)
Oh, sure. If someone would like to follow me, it's on Instagram. I have my own personal one.
It's called @octomama. My kids made that long time ago. I also have the @theexchangeus.
That is that's my Instagram handle there. And then a long game parenting, writing a parenting book. And so, I do have a handle for that where I post things.
But it's called @long_game_parenting. So, yeah, wonderful.
Laura Dugger: (49:38 - 49:56)
We'll link to all of that in the show notes for today's episode. And Elizabeth, this is your third time on The Savvy Sauce. So, you already know we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge.
And so is my final question for you today. What is your Savvy Sauce?
Elizabeth Pehrson: (49:56 - 50:36)
I would say in light of our conversation today and in light of what I talked about and shared, it's so simple. It's just 12 words. I say it all the time.
Think what you want your kids to be and then be it. Think what you want your kids to be and then be it. And I don't mean this in terms of your career or your profession, you know, but I mean in terms of modeling for our children what we want to impress upon their heart, things of character, because the truth is, it goes back to that.
We can only take our children as far as we've gone ourselves, or we can only help our children as far as we've done the work ourselves emotionally, mentally, spiritually and physically. So, think what you want your kids to be and then be it.
Laura Dugger: (50:37 - 50:46)
What a beautiful way to close out our time together today. As always, Elizabeth, you are just effervescent and time flies by when we're having conversations together.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (50:47 - 50:49)
I talk fast, so thanks for saying that.
Laura Dugger: (50:50 - 50:52)
Well, thank you for being my guest.
Elizabeth Pehrson: (50:52 - 50:55)
Absolutely. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks, Laura.
Laura Dugger: (50:56 - 54:10)
One more thing before you go.
Have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you.
But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own.
So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much.
He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him. That is good news.
Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what he has done for us.
Romans 10:9 says, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. So, would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place.
I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity.
In Jesus name we pray. Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him.
You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned.
So, you ready to get started? First, tell someone. Say it out loud.
Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.
You can start by reading the book of John. Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process. And finally, be encouraged.
Luke 15:10 says, in the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents. The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with.
You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Aug 3, 2026
Aug 3, 2026
58 min
Top Ten from 2025: #1 Maximizing Sexual Connection as Newlyweds to Long Term Marriages and Recovering from a Sexless Marriage with Dr. Clifford & Joyce Penner (Episode 252)
*DISCLAIMER* This episode is intended for adults
Ephesians 5:21 (NIV) Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
*Transcription of original episode* Maximizing Sexual Connection as Newlyweds to Long Term Marriages and Recovering from a Sexless Marriage with Dr. Clifford & Joyce Penner (Episode 252)
Questions and Topics We Cover:
- What are a couple of your most important tips for newlyweds?
- What are your favorite recommendations to share with couples who want to be proactive and enhance their sexual intimacy, even if things are currently going pretty well?
- Will you define what constitutes a sexless marriage and share any trends you've seen over the years?
Thank You to Our Sponsor: The Sue Neihouser Team
Dr. Clifford and Joyce Penner are best known for their pioneer work in encouraging people of all faiths to connect their sexuality with their belief system ─ helping them embrace sex as good and of God. Dr. Clifford is a licensed clinical psychologist and Joyce is a registered nurse and clinical nurse specialist. They are highly respected authors and speakers, in addition to being parents and grandparents.
Dr. Clifford and Joyce Penner’s Website
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Books By Dr. Clifford and Joyce Penner:
Enjoy! The Gift of Sexual Pleasure for Women
The Married Guy's Guide to Great Sex
The Gift of Sex: A Guide to Sexual Fulfillment
Sex FAQ We Didn’t Have Time to Cover Today
Previous Savvy Sauce Episodes with Dr. Clifford & Joyce Penner:
Easy Changes to Enhance Your Sexual Intimacy in Marriage with Dr. Clifford and Joyce Penner
Additional Previous Episodes on Sexual Intimacy on The Savvy Sauce:
Fostering a Fun, Healthy Sex Life with your Spouse with Dr. Jennifer Konzen
Ways to Deepen Your Intimacy in Marriage with Dr. Douglas Rosenau
Ten Common Questions About Sex, Shared Through a Biblical Worldview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Hope For Treating Pelvic Pain with Tracey LeGrand
Treatment for Sexual Issues with Certified Sex Therapist, Emma Schmidt
Talking With Your Kids About Sex with Brian and Alison Sutter
Natural Aphrodisiacs with Christian Certified Sex Therapist, Dr. Douglas Rosenau
Pain and Joy in Sexual Intimacy with Psychologist and Certified Sex Therapist, Dr. Jessica McCleese
Identifying and Fighting Human Trafficking with Dr. Jeff Waibel
Hormones and Body Image with Certified Sex Therapist, Vickie George
Passion Pursuit with Dr. Juli Slattery
Female Orgasm with Sue Goldstein
Erectile Dysfunction, Premature Ejaculation, and Treatments Available with Dr. Irwin Goldstein
Turn Ons, Turn Offs, and Savoring Sex in Marriage with Dr. Jennifer Konzen
Desire Discrepancy in Marriage with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Answering Listener's Questions About Sex with Kelli Willard
Anatomy of an Affair with Dave Carder
Supernatural Restoration Story with Bob and Audrey Meisner
Healthy Minds, Marriages, and Sex Lives with Drs. Scott and Melissa Symington
Female Pornography Addiction and Meaningful Recovery with Crystal Renaud Day
Building Lasting Relationships with Clarence and Brenda Shuler
Healthy Ways for Females to Increase Sexual Enjoyment with Tracey LeGrand
Pornography Healing for Spouses with Geremy Keeton
Sexual Sin Recovery for You and Your Spouse (Part Two)
Personal Development and Sexual Wholeness with Dr. Sibylle Georgianna
Our Brain’s Role in Sexual Intimacy with Angie Landry
Discovering God's Design for Romance with Sharon Jaynes
Sex in Marriage and Its Positive Effects with Francie Winslow, Part 1
Science and Art of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage, Part 2
Making Love in Marriage with Debra Fileta
Mutually Pleasing Sex in Marriage with Gary Thomas
Sex Series: God’s Design and Warnings for Sex: An Interview with Mike Novotny
Sex Series: Enhancing Female Pleasure and Enjoyment of Sex: An Interview with Dr. Jennifer Degler
Sex Series Orgasmic Potential, Pleasure, and Friendship: An Interview with Bonny Burns
Sex Series: Sex Series: Healthy Self, Healthy Sex: An Interview with Gaye Christmus
Sex Series: Higher Sexual Desire Wife: An Interview with J Parker
Sex Series: Six Pillars of Intimacy with Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo
215 Enriching Women's Sexual Function, Part One with Dr. Kris Christiansen
216 Enriching Women's Sexual Function, Part Two with Dr. Kris Christiansen
217 Tween/Teen Females: How to Navigate Changes during Puberty with Dr. Jennifer Degler
218 Secrets of Sex and Marriage: Interview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Special Patreon Release: Holy Sex: An Interview with Dr. Juli Slattery
Special Patreon Release: His Desires and Her Desires in the Bedroom with Dr. Jennifer Konzen
224 Surprising Discoveries of Sex in Marriage: An Interview with Shaunti Feldhahn
227 Resolving Conflict in Marriage with Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo
Patreon 28 Re-Release: Protecting Your Marriage Against Unfaithfulness with Dave Carder
Patreon 23 Her Desires and His Desires in the Bedroom with Dr. Jennifer Konzen
Patreon 26 Holy Sex with Dr. Juli Slattery
Patreon 28 Protecting Your Marriage Against Unfaithfulness with Dave Carder
Patreon 29 Remaining Sexually Engaged Through The Years with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Patreon 49: Story of Healing from Sexual Betrayal in Marriage: An Interview with Bonny Burns
Patreon 52 God, Sex, and Your Marriage with Dr. Juli Slattery
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast.
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Jul 27, 2026
Jul 27, 2026
46 min
Top Ten from 2025: #2 Gut Health, Allergies, Inflammation and Proactive Solutions with Emily Macleod-Wolfe (Episode 256)
1 Corinthians 6:20 CEV "God paid a great price for you. So use your body to honor God."
*Transcription of original episode* Gut Health, Allergies, Inflammation and Proactive Solutions with Emily Macleod-Wolfe (Episode 256)
Emily MacLeod Wolfe is a Nurse Practitioner wellness professional with a passion for helping individuals achieve their health goals in a holistic and practical way.
With 5 years of invaluable experience in the field, Emily has developed a deep understanding of the importance of a balanced lifestyle for a vibrant life.
Emily firmly believes in treating the whole person, not just the symptoms, and takes a comprehensive approach to healthcare. She learned these from her own personal experience of dealing with Hashimoto's thyroiditis and eczema and found the root causes to treat them naturally. She is passionate to help others with the personal knowledge and health freedom she has received.
By combining her medical expertise with a focus on nutrition, exercise, and mindfulness, she empowers her clients to take control of their health and make sustainable lifestyle changes.
With a warm and empathetic demeanor, Emily creates a safe and supportive environment where clients feel heard and understood. She works closely with each individual to develop personalized wellness plans that are tailored to their unique needs and circumstances. Whether you’re looking to improve your physical fitness, manage stress, or simply lead a healthier life, Emily is dedicated to guiding, encouraging & supporting you on your wellness journey.
Find a Functional Medicine Provider in Your Area
Questions and Topics We Cover:
-
Will you define what it means when you refer to our "gut" and explain why our gut health is vitally important to our overall health?
-
What lifestyle sets us up to have a healthier gut?
-
If you had to simplify it and leave encouragement for each of these areas, what's a good starting point for something we can all start doing, stop doing, and continue doing?
Thank You to Our Sponsor: The Homeschool Printing Company
Other Related Episodes on The Savvy Sauce Podcast:
Being Intentional with our Health, Finances and Relationships with Elizabeth Dixon
Simple Changes for Healthier Living with Leslie Sexton and Vasu Thorpe
Sustainable Health & Nutrition with Molly Pfleuderer and Ryan Parnham
Rhythms of Renewal with Gabe and Rebekah Lyons
Healthy Living with Dr. Tonya Khouri
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Jul 20, 2026
Jul 20, 2026
1hr 1 min
Top Ten from 2025: #3 Redeeming Our Time with Jordan Raynor (Episode 255)
“But as for you, be strong and do not lose courage, for there is reward for your work.” 2 Chronicles 15:7 AMP
*Transcription of original episode* Redeeming Our Time with Jordan Raynor (Episode 255)
Jordan Raynor is a leading voice of the faith and work movement. Through his bestselling books (The Sacredness of Secular Work, Redeeming Your Time, The Creator in You, and The Royal in You.), keynote speeches, podcasts, and devotionals, Jordan has helped millions of Christians in every country on earth connect the gospel to their work.
In addition to his writing and speaking, Jordan serves as the Executive Chairman of Threshold 360, a venture-backed tech startup which Jordan previously ran as CEO following a string of successful ventures of his own.
Questions and Topics We Cover:
1. What does it look like, practically, to live on earth as it is in Heaven?
2. From your time studying of the Bible, do you find a difference in how our call to work applies to both men and women?
3. What are some ways we can pass along this wisdom to our children?
Other Episode Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce:
Stewarding Technology for More Intentional Relationships with Joey Odo
Related Episodes on The Savvy Sauce:
Being Intentional with Marriage, Parenting, Rest, Personal development, and Leadership with Pastor, Podcaster, and Author, Jeff Henderson
Practical Life Tips with Blogger, Rach Kincaid
Ordering Your Priorities with Kat Lee
Living Intentionally with Shunta Grant
Cultivate What Matters in 2021 with Emily Thomas
Rhythms of Renewal with Gabe and Rebekah Lyons
Divine Productivity with Matt Perman
Why Limits Are Good For Us with Kelly Kapic
Thank You to Our Sponsor: The Homeschool Printing Company
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Jul 13, 2026
Jul 13, 2026
1hr 1 min
Top Ten from 2025: #4 Holy Spirit Stories and Fruit and Ways to Identify His Guidance in Our Lives with Margaret Feinberg (Episode 274)
Exodus 31:3 NIV "and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills—"
*Transcription of original episode* Holy Spirit Stories and Fruit and Ways to Identify His Guidance in Our Lives with Margaret Feinberg (Episode 274)
Questions and Topics We Cover:
-
Joy is a fruit of the Spirit, so will you share some insight into what you’ve been learning about the Holy Spirit from your most recent research for your latest book, entitled The God You Need to Know?
-
If someone listening has trouble identifying the Spirit’s role and God’s direction or Jesus’ voice in their life, how would you encourage them to grow in attention and recognition of His voice and leading?
-
Do you have any stories to give as illustrations for the Spirit still mightily being at work in the world and in people’s lives today?
Margaret Feinberg, one of America’s most beloved Bible teachers, speaks at churches and conferences and hosts the popular podcast The Joycast. Her books and Bible studies, including Taste and See, Fight Back with Joy, More Power to You, and The God You Need to Know have sold more than one million copies and received critical acclaim and national media coverage from the Associated Press, USA Today, Los Angeles Times, Washington Post, and more. She was named by Christianity Today as one of fifty women most shaping culture and the church today. Margaret savors life with her husband, Leif, and their superpup, Zoom.
Margaret's Most Recent Work: The God You Need To Know Book and Bible Study
Thank You to Our Sponsor: The Homeschool Printing Company
Other Related Episodes on The Savvy Sauce:
150 Brain Science and Spiritual Abundance with Ken Baugh
Special Patreon Re-Release Theology and Discipleship with Ken Baugh
259 God Speaks to His Kids . . . Here's How with Chris Allen
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Jul 6, 2026
Jul 6, 2026
56 min
*Disclaimer* This episode contains some mature themes and listener discretion is advised.
Top Ten from 2025: #5 Questions for More Connection and Laughter in Marriage with Casey and Meygan Caston (Episode 269)
2 Corinthians 1:4 NIRV "He comforts us in all our troubles. Now we can comfort others when they are in trouble. We ourselves receive comfort from God."
*Transcription of original episode* Questions for More Connection and Laughter in Marriage with Casey and Meygan Caston (Episode 269)
Questions and Topics We Cover:
- Will you share three of the questions from your most recent book, specifically the ones people have told you unlocked the best conversations in their own marriage?
- You say you're an unlikely couple to help support marriages. Will you share a glimpse of your own backstory?
- What are a handful of ideas for ways couples can strengthen their connection with one another?
Casey and Meygan Caston are the Co-Founders of Marriage365. Casey and Meygan were perfect examples of what not to do in marriage. Three years into marriage, they found themselves having racked up more than $250,000 in debt, fighting constantly, and were ready to call it quits. Despite the 12 failed marriages between their parents, they knew this wasn't the legacy they wanted for themselves or their children. They began reading and educating themselves on how to do marriage the right way. The result of their journey is Marriage365, where they millions of people worldwide through their books, social media, retreats, and their online streaming service, Marriage365.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Inquisicook
Sample of Previous Episodes on Sexual Intimacy on The Savvy Sauce:
5 Ways to Deepen Your Intimacy in Marriage with Dr. Douglas Rosenau
6 Ten Common Questions About Sex, Shared Through a Biblical Worldview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
89 Passion Pursuit with Dr. Juli Slattery
108 Anatomy of an Affair with Dave Carder
135 Healthy Ways for Females to Increase Sexual Enjoyment with Tracey LeGrand
155 Sex in Marriage and Its Positive Effects with Francie Winslow, Part 1
156 Science and Art of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage, Part 2
158 Making Love in Marriage with Debra Fileta
165 Mutually Pleasing Sex in Marriage with Gary Thomas
218 Secrets of Sex and Marriage: An Interview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Special Patreon Release: Protecting Your Marriage Against Unfaithfulness with Dave Carder
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook, Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Jun 29, 2026
Jun 29, 2026
1hr 2 min
Top Ten from 2025: #6 Choosing Fun and Adventure in Your Marriage and with Your Family: An Interview with Dan & Sam Mathews (Episode 266)
Isaiah 55:12 MSG “So you’ll go out in joy, you’ll be led into a whole and complete life. The mountains and hills will lead the parade, bursting with song. All the trees of the forest will join the procession, exuberant with applause. No more thistles, but giant sequoias, no more thornbushes, but stately pines— Monuments to me, to God, living and lasting evidence of God.”
*Transcription of original episode* Choosing Fun and Adventure in Your Marriage and with Your Family: An Interview with Dan & Sam Mathews (Episode 266)
Dan and Sam Mathews have been married since 2014 and currently reside in Missouri with their two kids, Canyon and Ember. Since the moment they got married, Dan and Samantha have been living a life of sacrifice and faith. From backpacking in Arkansas to RV road trips across the US, they have always taken the adventurous route. Sam is a lifestyle vlogger and content creator, and Dan hosts a hunting podcast in addition to his social platforms. Together they share their life of adventure online with millions of followers. Follow them on socials @wearedanandsam.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Inquisicook
Questions and Topics We Cover:
- What are a few adventures you're so grateful you said yes to in life?
- Matthew 25:26 MSG says, "That's a terrible way to live! It's criminal to live cautiously like that!" So drawing your wisdom from the Lord, how does your faith fuel your sense of adventure?
- How can we begin to enjoy an adventurous life in our marriage and with our family?
Other Episodes Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce Podcast:
82 Traveling with Your Family with Katie Mueller
242 Stories Series: He Gives and Takes Away with Joyce Hodel
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook, Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Jun 22, 2026
Jun 22, 2026
1hr 1 min
Top Ten from 2025: #7 Raising Healthy Children with Dr. Charles Fay (Episode 254)
2 Chronicles 20:12b (NIV) "We do not know what to do, but our eyes are on you.”
*Transcription of original episode* Raising Healthy Children with Dr. Charles Fay (Episode 254)
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
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When it comes to helping our child find purpose in life, what are some helpful questions to ask and why is this even important?
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What are some specific examples of beneficial discipline for a variety of ages of children?
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What are natural and proactive ways we can improve mental health in ourselves and our children?
Charles Fay, PhD, is an internationally recognized author, consultant, and public speaker. He is also president of the Love and Logic Institute, which became part of Amen Clinics in 2020. Millions of educators, mental health professionals, and parents worldwide have benefited from Dr. Fay's down-to-earth solutions to the most common and frustrating behaviors displayed by youth of all ages. These methods come directly from years of experience serving severely disturbed youth and their families in psychiatric hospitals, public and private schools, homes, and other settings. For more information, visit loveandlogic.com.
Dr. Fay's Book, Co-Authored with Dr. Daniel Amen: Raising Mentally Strong Kids
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Inquisicook
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Jun 15, 2026
Jun 15, 2026
48 min
*DISCLAIMER* This interview includes some adult themes and is not intended for young ears.
Matthew 9:37 (NIV) "Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few."
*Transcription of original episode* God, Sex, and Your Marriage: Special Patreon Release Interview with Dr. Juli Slattery
Questions We Discuss:
-
For many couples, sex can be a difficult area of marriage and you encourage people that is normal, but you also warn us not to confuse normal with healthy. What is normal for married couples and what is healthy, as it relates to sexual intimacy in marriage?
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What is God's genius chemical cocktail that we experience during sex?
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Will you give a brief overview of your four pillars of intimacy?
Dr. Juli Slattery is a clinical psychologist, author, speaker and broadcast media professional with over twenty-five years of experience counseling, and teaching women. She’s the president and co-founder of Authentic Intimacy, a unique ministry devoted to teaching God’s design for intimacy and sexuality. In 2020, Juli launched SexualDiscipleship.com, a platform designed to help Christian leaders navigate sexual issues and questions with gospel-centered truth. She hosts a weekly podcast, Java with Juli, where she answers tough questions about relationships, marriage, and spiritual, emotional and sexual intimacy. www.authenticintimacy.com
Other Episodes with Dr. Juli Slattery on The Savvy Sauce:
Passion Pursuit with Dr. Juli Slattery
Patreon 26 Holy Sex with Dr. Juli Slattery
Life-Giving Marriage with Dr. Juli Slattery
Thank You to Our Sponsors: Female by Design
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”