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Do you want ideas for questions to deepen your conversations? Do you want to feel intimately connected to your spouse? Do you desire to parent with purpose? If so, tune in each Monday with Laura, a licensed marriage and family therapist who specialized in Christian sex therapy. She interviews the best faith-based speakers to answer our questions and doesn't shy away from a wide range of difficult topics. Sexual intimacy is discussed once a month so that you can delight in your marital relationship, feel equipped to teach your children about sex, and learn practical ways to overcome hurt or addiction. Episodes on health and wellness cover topics of hormones and free lifestyle swaps, perimenopause, and what simple practices yield HUGE health benefits. Marital experts teach conflict resolution that actually works, parenting pros share wisdom from newborns to adult children, business leaders let us in on secrets of the trade, and the foundation of everything is Jesus Christ! Find joy here and live on purpose as you consider, “What’s your savvy sauce?!"
Episodes
Monday Dec 10, 2018
Monday Dec 10, 2018
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message.
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It's my privilege to introduce you to Emma Schmidt. Emma is a certified sex therapist and her private practice is in Cincinnati, Ohio. Today we're going to discuss five topics. They include pain, pornography, erectile dysfunction, anxiety, and emotional distance. Here's our chat.
Hey, Emma.
Emma Schmidt: Hi.
Laura Dugger: I'm looking so forward to getting to ask you more questions about your expertise. But first, will you just share a little bit about yourself, including how you decided to become a sex therapist? [00:01:53]
Emma Schmidt: Yeah. So I've been in private practice for about eight years now. I'm out in the Cincinnati, Ohio area. I have two little girls, a one-year-old and a three-year-old and I've been married for 11 years now. So whenever I was first married, so I got married when I was 20, and one of the pieces that really resonated with us is that we were virgins whenever we got married and we didn't know that we might experience some kind of sexual pain and or some kind of sexual dysfunction.
We thought that sex would just be kind of what everybody had told us from movies or books, and so we were really excited about it. Then that started a very long years of journey trying to figure out why we could not have successful intercourse.
I was in my undergrad for psychology at that point, and I tried to look for different resources and therapists. There were so many great family relationship couples therapists out there, but no one who really knew how to address that core piece of sexual dysfunctions or sexual-related topics. [00:03:07]
Though there were many who tried and I really appreciated that and so we kept getting tossed around from therapist to therapist. That's when I decided, you know, I want to be able to grow this field. I felt really comfortable talking about this area.
Even from whenever I was younger, I really enjoyed human sexuality. That was my focus in my psychology undergrad. So whenever I went to my counseling and master's degree, I just heavily focused my trajectory on sex therapy. So I was doing my master's in counseling in Cincinnati and then I would drive down to Atlanta on the weekends to do sex therapy certification, the sex therapy certification program.
That was about eight years ago whenever I did that. I was an individual practitioner. Then in the last, it's been almost two years now, I started the group practice of other clinicians who were interested in sex therapy, wanted to figure out how to become sex therapists and relationship therapists.
Since then, most of our clinicians are either certified as a sex therapist or are in a program for becoming certified as a sex therapist, which is pretty cool because there aren't many in our area. The idea is that we grow as a population to be able to help more people in our community on a number of different levels. [00:04:33] So that's where we're at right now and a little bit of my story.
Laura Dugger: Thank you for sharing that part of your story. Have you been someone who has experienced healing through the sexual part of your life?
Emma Schmidt: Yes. I experienced vaginismus kind of off and on, but definitely for the first three years of our relationship. Then we sought out pelvic floor physical therapy, sex medicine doctors. And we had a lot of success with that and then it came back postpartum. So we had to kind of dive into that. But what was really cool is that we had to learn how to be intimate versus just having physical sex. And that was a pretty amazing experience to understand what intimacy looks like versus what does the performance-based sex looks like.
So we have experienced healing through that sexual part, even though it kind of ebbs and flows still. But the intimacy piece, I think, has been pretty close to us, even if that goes off a little bit.
Laura Dugger: That definitely makes sense. Just to clarify, or if somebody is in your same position, how can they grow in intimacy or what does that look like? [00:05:49]
Emma Schmidt: We had to figure out because we weren't sexually illiterate. We had to slow everything down and explore and figure out what do I like, what do you like, how can we have more conversation? So we could get pretty frustrated by intercourse not working, let's say so we developed a plan where we sit down... Well, we don't sit down anymore, but we did.
We communicate about sex pretty frequently. Even today as a sex therapist We talk about our sex life almost every other day at least or at least once a week where we just dive into what was good, what are you meeting, what am I meeting, how can we be vulnerable and kind of show up verbally naked. That took a lot of hard work and trying to figure out what language we needed.
That in itself helps us become closer because we are having to be so vulnerable with "Actually I know that you like that but this is how it makes me feel" or "Do you actually like doing that because I don't like it when you do that?" And so are we just doing something that neither of us actually enjoy.
So there was a lot of conversation about it, which was really helpful, and then a lot of exploring and experimenting which was good to figure out what's gonna work and what's not, and then readdressing that maybe months or years later to figure out, is that something we want to try again or not or let's talk about this because our bodies are changing during different seasons of life or our personalities are changing. [00:07:22]
There's some things that or some discussions that we had early on that didn't really work for us but now work for us post-kids. So having that ongoing conversation, being able to... I think this is cheesy, but it makes sense, saying like, into-me-see, so allowing someone to really see into you and then you diving into that person as well. So being really transparent and vulnerable.
That's what intimacy is about. If I just go in to have physical active sex, there might not be any intimacy there. But what we were trying to create is how can we show up for each other and allow for a deeper connection than sexually when we were able to express our needs and desires and refocus on the purpose of what we wanted sex to look like.
Laura Dugger: I love that explanation. That does broaden your perspective and really intimacy is so rich. So I love that you've shared that. From your expertise, how do you think that sex therapy can benefit a couple, singles, parents, kids, and even families?
Emma Schmidt: I mean I've gotten a lot of interesting comments about what people think sex therapy is. The way that I like to think about it is sex therapy can help on a broad level any kind of sexual difficulty that one might be having. [00:08:45] So for a couple, let's say, a typical couple might have desire discrepancy. So one person has more desire for sex than the other person or it's been a while since you've had sex now just feels awkward how to start that again.
There might be some infidelity or some addictions that might be happening within the relationship or even just confused about what to do with your body. It feels like going into a sexual situation when you haven't had it before seems like it would be normal, but how do you move your body? This feels awkward. So even diving into some of those pieces with couples is really important. Or the rectal dysfunction or vaginal pain, infertility. There's so many different aspects to sex therapy that can benefit a couple. So that's the couple piece.
For an individual, I think exploring one's sexuality, exploring how to get to know your body and you being a sexual self. So I see a lot of clients who come in who have shame around sex because of cultural messages or religious messages or familial messages. So trying to address some of those shame pieces. [00:09:59]
Or even I'll have some women who come in who want to explore how to have an orgasm and what does that even feel like. Or guys who are coming in and saying, I'm 20 and I have I'm not able to sustain an erection, like this doesn't feel normal, or I have premature ejaculation or I'm just trying to figure out how to date and I feel awkward in this new world where it seems like you're supposed to go on 50 dates all the time and am I monogamous am I not monogamous.
So we explore relationships, we explore how to become more in tune with one's sexual self and really try and decrease some of those shame messages. But we do a lot of exploration around what does that look like.
Then for parents, This gets really tough because you're used to maybe a certain way of behaving sexually, and then you have kids and it completely rocks the boat maybe. Maybe your body and the way that you experience sex feel so much better postpartum. And then maybe sometimes there's a lot of stuff that's going on.
So I'll see women who experience sexual pain maybe because of the scars, scar tissue that they might have because of tearing or the vaginal canal can just really change, your body shifts or if you have a C-section, sometimes you go numb. Some of the nerve endings can be damaged from a C-section. [00:11:19]
So that can be really disheartening when you have had this, you've created such a miracle of life and now you're trying to figure out, well, how do we behave sexually again? Not only that, but you might be functioning on waking up every two hours and you have absolutely no desire. So you feel like you've gotten into the cycle of maybe fighting a lot or you have no energy or the male partner feels like, I want to be there for my partner but I don't know how to. So it's a lot of treading water or walking on eggshells between the partners and then all of a sudden what we see is we haven't had sex in so many months or so many years and we don't know what to do.
So trying to figure out, how do we even schedule sex or make it scheduled spontaneity is a fun exercise that I like to try and create with couples who are parents and the busyness of life, especially with all the sports that are going on and all the activities. How do we make sure that we're creating space for us as a couple when we also have a family going on that we love and we cherish. So what does that look like? [00:12:28]
So that's just a little bit of parents, individuals, couples that we might see with sex therapy but there's so many other pieces and components to it that might be brought into the office as well.
Laura Dugger: It sounds like everyone can benefit from sex therapy in a different way because it affects all of us. Even on your website, it says that 4 out of 10 women and 3 out of 10 men experience sexual problems. Yet I love that you follow it up with saying most sexual concerns are treatable.
So it'd just be awesome to have you educate us on ways that you do treat some of these sexual problems. You had talked about pain during intercourse in the past. So let's start with the woman experiencing pain during intercourse who asks you, why do I feel sexual pain when the doctor says there's nothing wrong?
Emma Schmidt: This is a common concern that we hear. One thing that my sex medicine doctor that we refer to often taught me is that typically when you go to see your GP or your general practitioner person or your OB, they're usually trained in more general topics around their specialty area. [00:13:47]
If it's your gynae, they're usually just trained in gynecology. So what's missed is if you want a sex medicine or a sex course, it's usually an elective and you have to then want to take that elective to get this information.
So what we're seeing is that there might actually be some sexual concerns going on and your doctor might be excellent but they might not know some of these other specialty areas. Just like if you go to your general practitioner for a broken bone they might send you to a person who specializes in broken bones.
What we do is if somebody comes in and says, "I'm having sexual pain and my doctor says I'm fine," I send them to our sex medicine doctor and I say, "Hey, I just want you to go get evaluated to see what all might be happening." But I also ask some interviewing questions and assessment questions to find out where's the pain and what kind of pain might you be having because there's so many different kinds of general sexual pains called dyspareunia, that it could be endometriosis. It could be atrophy of your vaginal canal. It could be vestibulitis and vaginismus or vulvodynia.
What I want to find out is where is this pain located and who's going to be the best fit for you in terms of a doctor that could potentially help? Usually, it's a sex medicine doctor. [00:15:05]
So what I do is I create a team approach so it's usually a sex medicine doctor and then also a pelvic floor therapist depending on the type of pain that a client might be having. So in combination, we create a team approach where the sex medicine doctor, the pelvic floor therapist, and myself are all talking together. And so I work with the cognitive piece.
If vaginismus is going on, what I see a lot of times is the sex medicine doctor and the pelvic floor therapist might have addressed and gotten the client to have no pain anymore but now there's this fear of having intercourse. So we work with the fear of having intercourse and getting over this next hurdle of we know that you have a pain-free pelvic floor area, how can we help you get to a place where you want to enjoy it? We get through some of those negative messages that you can tell yourself about what pain does to the body such as...
A common example is if I go to touch a hot stove, I probably am not going to go touch it again because my brain signals to my body this is hot and you don't want to hurt yourself again. So for someone who experiences pain, that's what their brain is signaling to their body: don't do this, don't have intercourse because it's going to hurt.
Psychologically, we have to work with that and we have to slowly go through that sometimes, and maybe some just general touching around the pelvic floor and creating some safety and that partner is then creating more trust to allow for their partner to then potentially have intercourse later on or some kind of... whatever that pain might be.
We do some exercises through touch but also some cognitive processing, some mindfulness, self-affirmation types of exercises along with addressing "what are you telling yourself? How can your partner be there for you? What do you need from them?"
So it's a lot of intimate conversation. This is really a scary place if you're experiencing pain. In combination with these doctors, I also do a lot of cognitive processing along with some emotional pieces and being able to ask your partner for what you need in that moment as well.
Laura Dugger: That's so neat that you have it as a team approach. It sounds like it can be complex, but the encouragement is that it's totally worth it for the person who is seeking healing.
Emma Schmidt: Exactly. Yeah. [00:17:23] I think it can feel really discouraging when you've heard doctors say this isn't... you just need to drink a glass of wine or just relax. It is more complex than that. And your body is obviously telling you that. So I would always encourage you to listen to your body. And if someone's saying, "No, you're fine," but you don't feel fine, keep searching.
Laura Dugger: That's good wisdom there. And now a brief message from our sponsor.
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Laura Dugger: How do you handle it when a client asks why their partner watches pornography rather than choosing to engage with them?
Emma Schmidt: I always bring it back to the couple and ask them why that happens. Because I think that can be really discouraging. [00:19:27] Porn is so rampant. What I find — when I do my sexual history assessments with my client — is porn is the number one educator for our generation and for a lot of the clients that we see.
And so I try and empathize with that person like it must be really discouraging that they're looking at someone else versus you and what that must feel like then for you as a partner and try. And sit with them and what they're experiencing because it can feel kind of traumatic sometimes for some people.
I try and address, like, what are you experiencing? Why does this feel like a concern to you? And what are you needing for your partner? And how can you address this with your partner? What are you needing from them? Do you feel safe being able to address this with your partner and tell them, like, why this hurts you if it does hurt you? And have the partner respond because they might not know how this experience is for them.
Then try and create a game plan for what would be helpful for you all and what are those next steps to make you both feel secure and needed in the relationship. And I just need a connection that makes you feel bonded together.
And if you feel like your partner is watching porn and that feels violating to you, then you're not gonna want to be with your partner typically. Or you might just approve to them like you can see porn too, which isn’t intimate either. [00:20:49] So really trying to get down to that core piece and have them turn towards each other and connect and figure out, like, what works for us and what doesn't work for us in this relationship.
Laura Dugger: It's so neat to hear how you facilitate these conversations and just bring about understanding because oftentimes the person struggling with pornography has certain lies that they're believing such as this only affects me. But you're saying it really does affect the couple and we bring it into the room and talk about it. Is that right?
Emma Schmidt: Exactly. Yeah, because for some partners, it's not a problem at all. And so if this person's bringing it up, it must be affecting them in some way. And because the two of them have joined together in it, it's the coupleship that really needs to work on it, not just the individual.
Laura Dugger: We have a lot of male listeners as well, so let's address a common question that affects them. Do you ever personally work with males who struggle with erectile dysfunction, even when they're young? You had mentioned some people being as young as 20 years old. [00:21:55]
Emma Schmidt: I do work with males. Many of the male clients I see are ones who struggle with erectile dysfunction, especially younger men who feel very confused because it's stereotypically known to be older men who might experience this because of hormones that might be happening or their different aging experiences that might be going through their body to create some of the erectile dysfunction, blood flow problems.
I do work with men. And I really enjoy this area, honestly, because a lot of it is anxiety and stigma-related or shame-based messages that might be happening. And if not, I do the same thing. If I feel like whenever I'm doing my assessment that it might be more physical, then I refer to a urologist or a sex medicine doctor for them to get evaluated. And most of the time I do that anyways just to rule out anything else that might be going on.
Maybe they have some low testosterone that's happening or sometimes it's that the condom is too tight. What I find too is with erectile dysfunction is when it happens once it is just devastating for the rest of the time. So it might not be that it's a recurring problem because of something else. It might be because of that first time and the messages you tell yourself then after that first time and how difficult that was or even the responses that you get. [00:23:18]
It's usually less likely that it's a physical problem and more likely that it is anxiety-related or messages that you start telling yourself because of that erectile dysfunction that's happening. Because it's so devastating and it affects... When I talk to these men it affects every area of life and you just start ruminating on it. Of course, then that starts to affect the somatic body too.
Laura Dugger: That makes a lot of sense because the mind-body integration is just fascinating. And on that topic, how do you see anxiety affecting people's overall sexual health?
Emma Schmidt: Yes, so anxiety, I believe, is one of the leading contributors of many of the sex therapy challenges that we see in the office. So whether a couple is coming in I'll find that anxiety might be what's creating the disconnect between them talking about their sex life or anxiety might be why they're not having sex because they don't know how to start that sexual experience. Especially with sexual pain or the sexual dysfunctions, sexual dysfunctions is such a negative word so I think that induces some shame too.
But so for erectile dysfunction or premature ejaculation, those are all very much rooted in anxiety, or many times it's rooted in anxiety. So what you were talking about earlier with that mind-body connection being so strong for therapy, I think it's completely correct. [00:24:44]
The sex medicine doctor that I refer to a lot, she likes to say that your brain is your biggest sex organ and I 100% believe that that is true. Because if I am about to go into a sexual situation and I'm telling myself, oh my gosh, I feel so bloated right now and I don't look the way that I used to look and I start putting myself down, what happens is in the brain, it starts to shut off that desire and shut off that pleasure and so my body starts to get tense.
But if I feel confident and I feel excited and I feel really connected to my partner, then my body feels more loose and open and feels more desire or excitement for my body to go through a natural sexual response cycle.
I definitely think that anxiety is rooted in many of these sexual problems. Whether it's the chicken or the egg is I don't know, but I definitely think it follows through with many of the sexual concerns that I see. So a lot of times it's about how can we create space and create peace to shut down some of that anxiety and allow for you to feel more secure in your sexual self and with your partner too.
Anxiety a lot of times is rooted in fear and so we're trying to address what is that fear that you have that's creating that anxiety and how can we create some peace in that to allow you to move forward more confidently too. [00:26:08]
Laura Dugger: How have you seen that work with clients? Could you even give a specific example of how they were able to create space with the goal of peace?
Emma Schmidt: This is a typical client that I might have. They come in and they'll have a sexual problem and I say, okay, how often do you guys talk about this? And they say, "This is the first time." And I say, "Okay, how long have you guys been together?" They might say 20 years.
So I'll ask, "So in 20 years, you've never talked about your sex life." "No." I'll ask, what pulls you back from talking about it? "Well, it feels awkward" or "I feel embarrassed" or "I feel like he's wanting X, Y, and Z or she's wanting this and I feel like I'm trying to provide these things." So it's a lot of assumptions that are happening and a lot of anxiety that's... I want to make sure I'm pleasing this person or, um, I don't want them to leave me if I'm not this sexually active. So a lot of different things that can happen. But one of the biggest pieces is couples not talking about their sex life. [00:27:06]
What we do is I have them engage in a sexual conversation and I say, Okay, this might be awkward and uncomfortable, but you're in therapy so we're gonna try and challenge ourself with what feels uncomfortable in a safe place. So I'll have them start engaging in these questions that they have for each other but they just don't know... a lot of clients just don't know how to ask or what questions to ask. Because we weren't modeled that either, right? A lot of us weren't modeled how to do that.
So once they start talking about it, what I find is that they naturally just start to feel lighter or they even seem lighter whenever they come back into the room. Sometimes after that initial conversation they don't want any more sessions. And that feels really good to think, okay it was just needing to open up that dialogue and that was just through some facilitation or being able to help you figure out what questions you're looking to ask or needing from your partner.
I think like at the beginning, whenever I was talking about my husband and I coming together and opening up that intimacy through dialogue, I think that happens too with couples just not knowing how to create that space to ask. [00:28:08]
And that's what I find when couples come back in too, is if they had a rough time, being able to refocus back on, well, did you guys talk about this? And if the answer is no, how can I get you guys to talk about it at home and not wait until you come back in here? And what do you guys need to create that safety or to feel vulnerable or to create safety to feel vulnerable in that area or how do I help you guys think about the questions that you're looking to ask to connect in this way to create peace instead of anxiety? Because it just builds so...
If I can get clients to engage in more dialogues and figure out what questions they want to ask for connection, then I find that that's what helps really reduce that anxiety piece when they can feel safe with their partner
Laura Dugger: Now, will you speak to the couple who's seeking your relationship therapy for a different reason? Maybe because they feel more like roommates right now, and yet their desire is to grow in a deeper level of emotional intimacy. [00:29:08]
Emma Schmidt: Yeah. Clients who feel like roommates, that's another one that feels pretty present in our office space. What I say is when did that start and what has created that roommate feeling? What did it feel like prior to feeling like roommates? Typically it's we got into a routine or things aren't exciting anymore. You've gotten past that honeymoon phase, we'll call it.
And what happens after, let's say, it's around like six months to eighteen months, is your desires for each other start to level out? When you were dating, typically your libido starts to match each other and so you feel really excited to see the other person, your sex drive is a little bit higher. But when you're together for about six months to a little over a year, it starts to level back out to maybe what feels normal to your body. And that can feel confusing.
Some couples will say after they get married, I feel like my partner tricked me into getting married and they only had sex with me just to get me on the other side of this. I'll hear that a lot. And I don't think that is always true. I think it's the way that our bodies are functioning to excitement and then leveling back out too.
For the roommate piece what I like to do is how can we keep things exciting within the nature of your relationship so that it doesn't feel so routine, so it doesn't feel like we're roommates while also addressing what also makes us feel like roommates? [00:30:36]
One of the things that I think can be really beneficial is what I call the jar exercise. What you do is you have two different jars set up and you put what you find most sexually desirable or what you like to experience sexually or intimacy-wise and your partner then puts what they would like in their jar sexual or intimacy-wise. So you write it on a piece of paper and then put it in there and then you just go through a list of those.
Then what happens is you guys decide how often you would want to pull from the jar during the week. If we decide, if my husband and I, for instance, would decide that we're going to pull twice a week, I say, okay, I'll go first. And I decide what day that I want to pull from his jar, but I only know that.
So I go and I pull from his jar and I read what he is interested in. Then I decide what day, what time, when I'm going to plan this. So I create a situation for this activity or this sexual situation. [00:31:35] Then I initiate the way that he likes to be initiated, not the way that I like to be initiated. So it's really partner-focused, me turning towards my partner and figuring out what does he like and how can I best love him in this way.
Then my partner does the same thing for me. It's a way to keep things spontaneous but also scheduled. Because what we find is that if you just wait for spontaneity to happen, which is one of the number one things I hear from clients, I just want it to be spontaneous, it either doesn't happen at all, you either aren't going to engage in sexual interactions or it's going to happen much less frequently than you would like it to happen.
So if you're able to do this, I find that it can be really fun. You start to learn more about your partner and what they like to do. And you're turning towards your partner and figuring out how can I love them best and this is how it is. And so it can typically be really exciting too because I know my partner is going to like this and I'm excited to please them in this way.
Laura Dugger: Our listeners are some of the kindest people we've met. Your gracious comments through social media, email, and our website fuel us to continue producing more content. Some of you have asked what you can do to support The Savvy Sauce. As you know, we greatly appreciate it when you share episodes with friends. [00:32:44]
And now, for as little as $2 a month, there is a new way to financially show your support. These contributions, ranging from $2 to $20 per month, will be rewarded with extra podcasts, free downloadable scripture cards, and more. Check out all the details at thesavvysauce.com and click on our Patreon tab to find out how you can be a supporter of the arts. Thanks for participating.
Where else can listeners learn more about you and follow up if they want to schedule a session, even if they're not local to Cincinnati?
Emma Schmidt: We have a website. It's Emma-Schmidt.com. That's our website where sometimes we do blogs, sometimes not. Our Facebook feed also goes to our website, so you can check that out on our main page. More resources are available there, such as sex medicine doctors, pelvic floor therapists, other kind of medical professionals in our area. [00:33:42]
Then we also have our Facebook, Emma Schmidt and Associates, Sex and Relationship Therapy, and our Instagram, which is Emma Schmidt Sex Therapy, where we just post a lot of different resources throughout the weeks that could be really helpful for what we hear clients saying in sessions and then we want to be able to translate that to a broader audience too.
Laura Dugger: We will link to all of those in our show notes. Thank you just for making yourself accessible.
Emma Schmidt: You're welcome. This has been fun.
Laura Dugger: Well, we are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy means practical knowledge. And as the final question today, Emma, what is your Savvy Sauce?
Emma Schmidt: So this sounds really morbid but my savvy sauce is realizing that one day we're all gonna die. And so how can I live authentically for myself and for the higher being, can I call higher being, [00:34:41] how can I live authentically and transparently through that and not for others? One day we're all gonna die and so how can I live really genuinely in life?
Laura Dugger: Well, Emma, thank you so much for sharing all of your practical application with everyone who's hearing this message. Your work is making a difference and I appreciate the impact you've had on all of us today.
Emma Schmidt: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. [00:35:47]
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. [00:36:52]
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. [00:37:53]
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Dec 03, 2018
Monday Dec 03, 2018
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today over 55 years later at Sam Leman Chevrolet Inc in EUREKA. Owned and operated by the Bertschi family, Sam Leman in Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over Central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at Lemangm.com.
When I think about intentional holiday traditions, Shawn Mazelin is the first person who comes to mind. She has been a personal mentor of mine and many others. I've heard her grown children say how much they valued her intentionality and purposeful traditions. I hope you enjoy our chat.
Hi Shawn. Thanks for coming on The Savvy Sauce.
Shawn Mazelin: Hi Laura, it's great to be here.
Laura Dugger: For anyone who has not met you yet, can you just share a little bit about yourself?
Shawn Mazelin: I am in my 30th year of marriage. I have two adult daughters, two son-in-laws, a son that is a senior in high school, and another son that is a freshman in high school. [00:01:30] I work at a local maternity home for the last couple years, and I've been very busy with our church and other projects in the community.
Laura Dugger: And you have always poured so much into your family. Why was it important for you to make holidays special with your family?
Shawn Mazelin: You know, I think that it's so important to build memories. Those are more important, I think, than even the gifts that you can purchase. When my kids get together, even now as grown adults, they'll talk about some of the fun memories of growing up together and the things that we did, and the ways that we celebrated. But I never hear them talk about an item that was purchased. It's always about the quality time that we spent.
Laura Dugger: And for people that didn't know you as you were raising your children, were you a part-time working mom, a full-time working mom, stay-at-home mom? What did that look like?
Shawn Mazelin: You know, at various times in our marriage, I've done all of those things. It depended on how I needed to be the best helpmate to my husband. [00:02:35] We were also missionaries for 17 years of our marriage. And when you do that, you're living on faith support. So sometimes I would need to work a part-time job or a full-time job and sometimes God allowed me to stay at home full-time with my children.
So it was a different season for each time, but it was something my husband and I came together on and prayed through. So we had to learn how to be organized and to make family a priority because that was always my trump card. I didn't want my children and the things that were important to fall between the cracks because I was working outside the home.
Laura Dugger: Even in those really busy seasons, how did you carve out time to plan and prepare to make holidays special?
Shawn Mazelin: Well, I would do a little research before each holiday. I wanted my kids to have a clear understanding of what we were celebrating and why we were celebrating it. I think that's one of the keys to parenting is to give the "why" behind something and so that they understand it and make it their own. [00:03:43]
There's a lot of cultural ideas around every holiday. But most people don't realize there's a Christian meaning behind all the holidays. And so I wanted to dig to the root of each time and celebrate those moments.
For example, Christmas, everyone knows, you know, it's the birth of Jesus, but then there's also Santa Claus. Easter, you have the risen Christ, but then there's the Easter bunny. St. Patrick's Day, people talk about shamrocks and green beer, different things like that. And it's really about a man who became a Christian and went back to a country that had enslaved him and He taught the gospel.
As I go through and I look at those things, then we've talked about what is important. so for Christmas, I didn't always do it. You know, as young moms, you're kind of figuring different things out. But we had certain stories that we would share or movies that we would watch that were about the birth of Christ. And when we gave gifts to each other, it had a meaning to it. We look for places to serve and give to other people besides ourselves. [00:04:52]
Laura Dugger: Okay, friends, get your notebooks out if you're looking for ideas related to specific holidays or even birthdays. Shawn, let's spend some time and go through the whole calendar year so you can give suggestions. Let's begin with family members' birthdays. What traditions did you do?
Shawn Mazelin: When they were little, especially, our finances were very tight. So we couldn't afford to always go out for a big fancy dinner. But I would ask each child what their favorite dinner was and make that dinner on their birthday. And we would set the table very ornately.
So we would pull out our nicest dishes and might have a special Birthday placemats and champagne kind of a glass. I made a birthday plate. It's a glass plate. And you can hand paint it and you bake it. I've had it for the majority of their growing-up years. Now the paint's kind of all scratched off and it's not as pretty as it was when we first started but every time I talk about making a new one the kids all protest because they want me to still use that same plate for them. [00:06:00]
As we sit around and we eat your favorite meal and we have this really nice dinner, we go around the table and we say something that we value about that birthday person. So we take turns. It's really been amazing to watch my children bless each other and say things that are about their character traits that will build their siblings up.
Words have a tendency to take a root in your heart. And those things I've just watched bless our family so much to see positive and good things spoken over them. So we do that every year. And it's been amazing because as friends come in, or maybe they'll share their birthday with us, and we go around the table and friends are there.
We've watched people incorporate that in their families and in their homes. It isn't just about a cake and a present. It's about, hey, let's look at who you are on the inside. We notice who you are, how hard you work, how much you give, how funny you are, all of the good things about the person that God has created that's in our family. [00:07:05]
Laura Dugger: What about moving on to New Year's Eve and New Year's Day? Did your family do anything special for that?
Shawn Mazelin: You know, it's just simple. Sometimes we've had game nights and we'll all stay up and you know, I've made little hors d'oeuvres and we'll invite other families in and we'll have maybe a family versus family game night and keep score of whose families beat the other family and just made it a little competitive and had fun with it.
You know, we watched the ball drop or, you know, different things like that. It's just been more of a free night, but it's a night we've invited people in and just shared bringing in that new year.
Then as the clock strikes midnight, we usually stop and we pray together. And we bring that new year in with a prayer for the coming year and for the people in our lives and for our country and for our leaders.
Laura Dugger: And what about anything special you recommend for Valentine's Day?
Shawn Mazelin: Valentine's Day, I think that's just something that's in between your family. [00:08:04] I love to give all of my kids something sweet and remind them of the sweetness of God. I'll write them cards, or I'll do something for each one of them individually. But words of affirmation are a really big deal for us. So I like to write down things that I love about them, and then write down things that we see how God loves us and remind them that they're loved.
Especially as you're growing up and you're in school, sometimes you don't feel loved, and the enemy can come in and rob, steal some of the good things that God has done in your life. And so we want to remind our kids that they're loved, maybe when the world is cold and hard.
Then just my husband and I, we try to make sure that we go on a date because we want our kids to see us dating. We want our kids to know that we love each other. And I think it's healthy for the kids to know that we have family time, but we also have time for mom and dad.
Laura Dugger: I remember you sharing with a group that you mentored that you used a certain resource. I believe it was just called St. Valentine. [00:09:08]
Shawn Mazelin: Yes, it's just going back to the root of the history of how Valentine started. Valentine, this man, he was a priest and he was put into prison because he was marrying people at a time when marriage was illegal. The soldiers were supposed to be going off to war, and they thought the men would be distracted if they were married, so they made it illegal to be married. So this priest married people in secret.
As he was caught and put in prison, he was getting ready to be persecuted and put to death, he wrote a valentine to the jailer's daughter, and he signed it "My Valentine". As I've talked to my kids about this, we just talk about the importance of marriage and what are you willing to do to uphold what God has created and ordained, and how can we love each other?
You know, it's one of the biggest commandments is to love God and to love others. This holiday encompasses that. So we have a way to share that and say that and talk to others about it. [00:10:15]
Laura Dugger: I also remember that St. Patrick's Day was always one of your favorite holidays. Can you tell us more about that?
Shawn Mazelin: Sure. I love that day because it is about a man who was captured into slavery in Ireland and then he escaped and some Bishops found him, and he was taught the gospel, and he accepted Christ as his Savior. He went back to Ireland, and then he shared the gospel with people. And he shared it in a way that it impacted the entire nation.
The clover is a representation of the Trinity. It's what He used to teach about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—three separate things as one. So I love that day because when we eat dinner as a family on that day, we talk about who we need to forgive and how we can forgive, and how we can demonstrate love to others. [00:11:11]
So it isn't just about, you know, a green shamrock and luck of the Irish. It's about being intentional with the people around us and forgiving and living like Jesus asked us to.
Laura Dugger: Moving on to what Christians believe is the most important holiday, what did you do to teach your children about Easter?
Shawn Mazelin: Well, there's some really fun recipes that you can do where you can bake a marshmallow inside of a loaf of bread. And when you put it in and then you bake it and then the marshmallow, it dissolves and the kids can see an empty tomb. I had a little ceramic Tomb with soldiers and Jesus and Mary.
It kind of I would change the story every day of the week leading up to Easter. So Jesus would be walking into town and the kids, you know, would come through the living room and they would maybe see it on this table. And then the next day you would maybe see the soldiers there or you would see Mary there and then you would see Jesus crucified and you would see him and go into the tomb. Then on Easter, we would open it and he was gone.
We would just have tangible little things. And you can make those at home. There's lots of great things on Pinterest to show you how to make those. But just making sure that the kids knew what we're doing had a purpose and a meaning much bigger than an Easter bunny because our Savior gave His life for us. And so we wanted to help them to understand that as early as possible, that He died for us, but He's living in heaven and we can go there one day. That's hard for a little mind to capture. So there are some great tools out there for that. [00:12:52]
Laura Dugger: I love that. It reminds me of my own tradition growing up with my family. We would call them empty tomb rolls or resurrection rolls, kind of what you were speaking about. It was just a good visual aid as a child to start to understand a glimpse of this mystery.
But for anybody listening who wants to incorporate it, like Shawn said, you take a marshmallow, you roll it up in a crescent roll. And then you can dip it in butter and then roll it in cinnamon sugar and bake it and the marshmallow will disappear. So that's a great practical tip to apply today.
How about the 4th of July?
Shawn Mazelin: It was just a family time. Cookouts, sparklers, going to see fireworks. We have holidays as a priority with our kids. I know there's a lot of families that holidays roll around and everybody scatters and goes other places. But for us, it was another time for us all to come together and celebrate our nation. And maybe not in a way that was in a deep meaning because we have so much heaviness on so many other holidays, but just a fun time that we're celebrating our independence as a country. [00:14:02] I was having that time as a family.
Laura Dugger: What about Halloween? That can be a tricky holiday. So how did your family navigate it?
Shawn Mazelin: Sure. You know, when my husband and I were first married, I tended to swing very strictly on Halloween, and we didn't celebrate it at all. I had read many books and had a hard time with that holiday. People would come and knock at the door, and we wouldn't answer the door, and we'd pretend that we weren't home. And it really didn't accomplish anything.
So we didn't love that holiday, but we didn't really know what to do with it. Then churches started offering things to do. So we started to participate more in what our churches were offering. Then we did finally come to a point when we were at home and we would hand out candy and maybe hand out a track with it and explain what the gospel was to people. But the origination of that holiday is very pagan, and it's not something that we really had wanted to celebrate. [00:15:02]
So we drew some lines with what we were celebrating and how we celebrated it, and tried to talk through it with our kids. Why do they dress up with costumes? And why are they asking for candy? We wanted to explain to them that it seems simple, but everything has a meaning. We just wanted them to be cautious.
It's been amazing because, you know, I have one daughter that's grown up and she doesn't celebrate Halloween now. And I have another one that hands out candy at her door. But both of them, I think, would just participate with whatever at their church.
Laura Dugger: That makes sense. That gives freedom to each listener to use their own discernment, like you said, maybe to understand the meaning behind it. But what an incredible thing to help bring the light of Jesus and be able to redeem something so dark.
Shawn Mazelin: Right.
Laura Dugger: What do you like to do for Thanksgiving traditions?
Shawn Mazelin: We love to have a blessing jar where through the year you write things that you're grateful for. And we put them in the jar and we keep them throughout the year. Then on Thanksgiving we pass that jar around and everybody read one of them. [00:16:11]
There has been years where we haven't been great about keeping up with that. So maybe the day before we're scrambling to write things and put them in the jar so we can read it the next day. But we like to make sure that we do say something that we're thankful for.
And having family in, and again, making it special. Decorating the table, making it ornate and something that's more than just your average everyday dinner. So we pull out our nicest dinner glasses and our nicest plates and our nicest tablecloths and linen napkins and napkin rings and the nicest serving bowls. And it's a time that we really are coming together and saying, thank you, God, for all of these things and all of these people and all of these situations.
One thing that I've learned is life is very short and we don't know when the last time we'll all be together is. I've had holidays where the next year, maybe that family member was no longer living and we didn't realize at the time that was the last time we would have with that family member. [00:17:17] So making those moments special.
Then we also have a book that we pass around and everyone writes in that book what they're thankful for. We've had this one journal that we've written in for about 20 years. It's a pretty big book, but it's so fun to go back through that and see my children's little tiny kindergarten handwriting into their grown adult handwriting and see how their perception and gratitude has grown through the years as well.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that's such a great idea and neat keepsake. Maybe I was inspired by you. Something that we do because our kids are so little, each year, ever since they were born, on Thanksgiving, we just trace one of their hands, like the traditional turkey, and then we write to God five things that we're thankful for.
Shawn Mazelin: I love that.
Laura Dugger: We just stick it in this Thanksgiving book that we have and we can pull it out and see how their little hands have grown over the years and their prayers of gratitude.
Shawn Mazelin: I love that. [00:18:22]
Laura Dugger: Okay, well, we saved the biggest holiday for last. What Christmas traditions or meals do you recommend?
Shawn Mazelin: Well, Christmas tradition, you know, there are the fun things, the stockings, those fun things that we can hang up and put up. I think my kids have always enjoyed their Christmas stockings more than anything that they've ever received as a tangible gift.
But we go ice skating every Christmas Eve. We try to get all dressed up after that and we go to a very nice restaurant as a family. There's an older mansion of a house here in the area that's turned into a restaurant. We love to go to this place and go for an elegant dinner. You know, just to have something that stands out with the kids.
We do that on Christmas Eve. Then Christmas morning, everyone wakes up, and you're in your Christmas pajamas and you're always opening one gift on Christmas Eve. And it's always pajamas. They put those on, and they sleep in them, and they wear those for Christmas morning. [00:19:25]
Then we have that opening our gifts. And while we're opening our gifts, I've got a Christmas casserole that's cooking. So after that, we're going into and having a big brunch. And then everyone's playing with their items or, you know, whatever they've gotten for Christmas. And then we transition into the afternoon with a big dinner and family and just people coming in or friends coming in or maybe people that don't have family in the area coming over and just having that time of having the time together.
But my husband always reads the Christmas story and shares that. And we just take that time and remember God sending His Son. We read that as a family and we again have a time of prayer and we just celebrate who Jesus is. We're so grateful for that.
We may watch, you know, the Nativity movie or other Christmas movies and just try to prepare our heart the whole time, not just for the things that people are going to buy that are under the tree, but our heart for who lives there. [00:20:29]
Laura Dugger: You mentioned a breakfast casserole. Even getting really practical, for someone who's listening and maybe they're a mom and they feel overwhelmed at Christmas time, did you make some of that food ahead of time so you could be more fully present that day?
Shawn Mazelin: I did. I usually made that on Christmas Eve morning because I told you we have a very full activity day and we're running. So I just would even take... it depends what I had and where we were, but you know, just eggs, spinach, maybe some bacon crumbles, cheese, mix it all up and let it sit in the fridge overnight and then bake it the next day.
Laura Dugger: You shared a really great recipe that was a French toast casserole. Do you remember that?
Shawn Mazelin: I do. I don't have the recipe in front of me, but yes, that French toast recipe is one that you make. Actually, I think it's an Amish French toast recipe. You can make it the day before, it sits in a refrigerator overnight, and then it just bakes while you're opening presents, and it's so easy. [00:21:34]
Laura Dugger: And it smells the whole house, and you can even start to associate those smells with Christmastime as a memory.
Shawn Mazelin: Yes.
Laura Dugger: Well, are there any other resources that come into mind that you want to highlight with any of these traditions? Oftentimes we think of food or resources or time spent together. Is there anything else you would add?
Shawn Mazelin: With Easter, I have resurrection eggs that we share. You can order them from Family Life. We go around the table and everyone opens one egg on Easter day and it tells you part of the Easter story. And that is always a fun thing for the kids and the adults to do is to open that up and to see the different parts of the aspects of Easter. [00:22:20]
But as far as preparing meals and making things special, pull in your heritage. Pull in something that was something maybe your grandmother made. I'm Italian, so we make meatballs on New Year's Day, which is always a fun thing. I make those the day before, and then they're in the crock pot the whole day on New Year's Day. We just try to pull in some of our heritage and make it special and unique to us.
Maybe something I don't do every time or every week, you know, pull out those things that mean something to your family. One of the things that I've tried to teach our kids, the verse that's Proverbs 22:1, it says, "A good name is more desirable than great riches. To be respected is more than gold or silver." I want my kids to know who they are. That's why we do those things in our holidays as family, because I want them to embrace being a Mazelin, embrace being who God created them to be, and to know that that is a fulfilling thing to guard your... your reputation, it's more desirable. And to feel the roots of their heritage. [00:23:34]
So finding those things that are special and unique to your family, or maybe your husband's family. Maybe his grandma made something special that you want to bring in and incorporate and pass on. Or maybe there's a book or something that they read from years ago that you want to incorporate in your family and pass on as a legacy. So looking for those things that are already there that we don't have to reinvent.
Laura Dugger: I've never thought of that before. We're going to link to quite a few resources and ideas in the show notes just so people can come here, grab whatever tip works for their family, and hopefully be inspired to create some memories today.
Now a brief message from our sponsor.
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If you visit their dealership today, though, you'll find that not everything has changed. They still operate their dealership like their grandfather did, with honesty and integrity. Sam and Stephen understand that you have many different choices in where you buy or service your vehicle. This is why they do everything they can to make the car-buying process as easy and hassle-free as possible.
They are thankful for the many lasting friendships that began with a simple "Welcome to Sam Lemans". Their customers keep coming back because they experience something different. I've known Sam and Stephen and their wives my entire life and I can vouch for their character and integrity, which makes it easy to highly recommend you check them out today.
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Learn more at their website, Lemaneureka.com, or visit them on Facebook by searching for Sam Leman Eureka. You can also call them at (309) 467-2351. Thanks for your sponsorship. [00:25:40]
Laura Dugger: Hey, friends, I just wanted to give you a quick reminder that we're asking for ratings and reviews on whatever platform you use to listen to this podcast. If you would be willing, could you also hit subscribe to the podcast and share this with a friend? Thanks for listening. Now back to the show.
We are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" means practical knowledge or discernment. So, Shawn, as we conclude today, what is your savvy sauce?
Shawn Mazelin: My savvy sauce is taking my family and letting them know how greatly they are loved, to be that encourager. Sometimes as a mom we become very heavy and we can become about correcting and training, but we forget the loving, the kind, the fun, the investing part of it.
So my savvy sauce today would be to be the encourager and to look for the creative, fun ways to build memories into your family. [00:26:42]
Laura Dugger: You have such a heart of encouragement, and thank you for sharing all of that with us today.
Shawn Mazelin: Thank you.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [00:27:48] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. [00:28:48]
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [00:29:51] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Nov 26, 2018
Monday Nov 26, 2018
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Today's episode is brought to you by Fae & Monroe. They make hand-stamped jewelry and accessories, and they are located right here in Central Illinois. They provide delicate, personal everyday necklaces, as well as keychains and accessories. Check them out online at FayAndMonroe.com.
Today we get to chat with Jamie Kaeb. She is a dreamer and a coffee lover. She is married to Clint and the mother of seven, five through adoption. Jamie founded the Forgotten Initiative in 2011, and today we get to hear more of her story, we get to be inspired by God's work, and she will share with each of us how we can serve the foster care community in unique ways. Here's our chat.
Well, hello, Jamie. Thanks so much for joining us today.
Jamie Kaeb: I'm really excited to talk with you and to have this conversation.
Laura Dugger: If anyone hasn't met you yet or heard about the Forgotten Initiative, would you mind just sharing a little background on both?
Jamie Kaeb: So for us, I would say even all the way back to several years ago, if you would have asked me, you know, what do you think about adoption or foster care, would you ever do that? I would have said, oh my goodness, only if I cannot have children, because I was very afraid of adoption. Honestly, I really didn't even think about foster care.
And I remember when Paige was an infant, and now she's 15, hearing a broadcast on the radio about adoption. And I can still vividly feel that pit in my stomach as I said to the Lord, "I hope you're not trying to tell me something."
So that's where I was. [00:02:00] But God, in His gracious way, was so faithful to bring people into my life who opened my eyes and brought awareness to this whole world of adoption and ultimately foster care. For us, adoption became our first experience was with our son Hudson, who we adopted from Guatemala.
And then it was now 2008, and we had kind of caught this adoption bug, and we already had another daughter. So we had two daughters biologically, and then we adopted our son. And now we wanted to adopt again, and this time we were going to try to adopt from the United States.
God took us on a journey that was not what we expected. It was very painful because basically, every person said, No, this is not, this is no. And for me, it was a very difficult time because I'm a very emotional person and all in. And so when God was saying no, no, no to adoption, I was saying, "Why? This is a good thing. I don't understand this. This hurts. This stinks. I hate this." [00:03:00]
And yet God, in His graciousness, opened our eyes to a whole new world. Through the journey of saying no and the journey of waiting, He opened our eyes to a whole new world, the world of foster care. He taught us that it's not about bringing a child into our family, but it's about bringing our family to a child.
So we started to go to foster care classes. This is where we learned that really foster care is about coming alongside another family. It's not just about providing a safe place for kids, which it is, but it's about coming alongside another family for temporary, for time, with the hope that if this family can come back together, then that's a win.
So we kind of learned about that. And at the same time as we're learning about foster care, I remember watching a video of a little girl who was waiting in a foster care office. The worker was calling around trying to find a home for her and everyone was saying, "No, I can't. I can't." [00:04:00]
And watching that there and getting to know this world of foster care was just eye-opening and it just broke my heart. I could not believe that this was happening in my own community. I thought, "This is not okay."
So this time we had our three kids still, and I went to DCFS, our local foster care agency, never had been there before, never knew what to expect. But I walked in and I said, "Please tell me what happens to these kids. Where do they go? Where do they wait? I need to know" because I did not know.
So they let me see some of the rooms where kids will visit with their parents. And just as I walked in there, it was just heartbreaking because the furniture was hard, the walls were blank, the toys were broken, some of them, and it just made me sad. And I thought, "How can kids who are being pulled from everything that they know come here? That is not okay."
So I asked them, I said, "Can we do something about this? Can I bring in people? Can we make over these rooms and make them beautiful." Essentially they said, "Well, will you pay for it?" And I said, "Sure." [00:05:04]
So we called on people I got on Facebook and I called them my friends and family and I said, "Let's create a space that says, you are special to these kids, so that they know that there are people who are thinking of them and who care for them."
So for me, I always describe this as a puzzle piece, because what I saw there is the same thing I see today many years later, is that God's people really do care, they just don't know how to help, or maybe they just don't know that there's this need out there.
But when I reached out to people and said, Okay, this room needs done, we need painters, we need brand new toys, we need people to put shelves together, people jumped on board and they were so excited to get involved.
And also watching the response of the agency to see men and women who work there in this really dark field often, laughing and excited and just kind of blown away that we were even there, was so beautiful. So again, it was like God was saying, Listen, the church, they care. It's not that they don't care. It's just that they don't know. [00:06:05] That was a puzzle piece I always described as saying God was putting together this picture.
And as I got to know workers, I started asking more questions. "Okay, what else do you need? Help me understand. I need to know. This is all so new to me. What do you need? What do your families need?" And as I learned, another common need is diapers. You know, maybe a child will come into DCFS with a soiled diaper and maybe there's nothing on hand.
So the worker, in the middle of this transition time that is scary for the kids, they have to run out to Walmart and often pull out of their own pocket money to pay for diapers. So I'm like, this is easy. So I got on Facebook again and said to my friends, "Let's do a diaper drive." And I wrote, "Let's get 30 boxes of diapers for these agencies." And then I changed my mind and said, "No, let's get a hundred boxes of diapers."
Laura, I'm telling you, again, God's people just stepped up and responded. I started getting diapers to my door almost daily. I think the speedy delivery guy who delivered these diapers thought I was crazy. But it was so beautiful to watch diapers being delivered from all over the United States because people were sending them from Amazon. [00:07:16] Someone even sent them from Japan. Someone who had read the blog apparently sent diapers from Japan.
It was this beautiful way to walk into one agency in town. We got over 100 boxes of diapers and wipes combined, but I took about 30 of those to one agency and I said to them, "This is from the body of Christ. We need you to know that we see you, we care about you, and we just want to do what we can to support you." Again, their response was just overwhelmed. They could not believe that we would do that, that we would think of them.
So God took those puzzle pieces and put them together in a picture that became the Forgotten Initiative. What started then as a movement in my community to just learn the needs, to share the needs of God's people, and then help the church to be the hands and feet of Jesus to this agency and to the families that they serve and the kids that they serve and the foster parents that they serve has moved, has spread all across the nation where now we have 35 communities serving their agencies. [00:08:17]
We call them advocates. They're leaders in their community. They're volunteers who are going out and they're saying, This is not okay. We need to make a difference. And so they're serving and we're just continuing to bring awareness because like I've learned and like we believe, awareness leads to action.
So that's really the story, really, to TFI. And during this journey, as we're in those foster care classes, after going through the classes and really getting our whole brains around this idea of foster care, we determined that, yes, this is what we want to do.
After those classes, we got a call about two little boys. They were three and seven months old, and they needed a foster home. And I will never forget the day that they were coming in to our house. I was waiting. We had not seen them. We really knew very little about them. I was waiting in my house excited, nervous, until the caseworker pulled up. [00:09:08]
And as she did, I ran out there and I saw three-year-old Dade who was very quiet and very nervous. And I just remember looking at him and saying, "I am so happy to have you here." And then looking at little seven-month-old Bobby, who was just a baby, and just thinking, "Wow, this is the beginning."
And for us, as beautiful as that moment was, and we'll talk more about this, I'm sure, but there was definitely some challenges along the way as well. But about five months after those two boys joined our family, their sister also needed a foster home, and so we said yes to her.
So at this point, we had six kids and at that age, they were seven, five, four, three, two, and one. So life changed very dramatically. But that is a little bit about our journey to foster care.
Laura Dugger: You mentioned all of the children's ages. As you continued adding children, did they continue to be the youngest one chronologically as well? Does that make sense?
Jamie Kaeb: Absolutely. And for our situation, those three were the only three that came into our home to foster care because they ended up needing adopting. So we did adopt them. [00:10:16] And in Illinois, once you have six in your home under 18, you can no longer foster.
So for us, our foster care journey was done at that stage. But later on, God did call us to adoption. We met some kids from Zambia. I remember telling my husband one night, "Listen, Clint, I don't know what God's doing, but I feel like we need to pray about adopting from Africa." And I remember Clint saying, "Okay, let's pray, but don't expect anything." Now we have a six-year-old little guy from Africa. He was born in Uganda. We brought him home three years ago. His name is Friday.
Laura Dugger: That's such a beautiful story. Could you tell us two things? You mentioned Zambia, which you actually have some personal connections there. I'd love to have you elaborate on that, and then help people understand if they're interested in becoming an advocate, what can they do?
Jamie Kaeb: Sure. So Zambia, my parents started the ministry called Lifesong for Orphans, and TFI is actually a ministry of Lifesong for Orphans. We're really a foster care piece of what they do. But they have a school in Zambia. [00:11:19]
My sister actually was a missionary over there for a time and brought some kids home from Zambia to travel around the state singing and raising money for their program there. And so it was through that and getting to know those kids on a more personal level that really opened our eyes to Africa.
So as far as becoming an advocate, the best thing to do is just go to our website, which is theforgotteninitiative.org, and click on "become an advocate". You will find out what it really means to be an advocate. We have information on who are advocates, what is required of an advocate, how to become an advocate. So really that is just going to be your best place to go straight there. We encourage you to do that because we need more advocates in communities all across the nation.
Laura Dugger: Incredible. We'll link to that in our show notes so it makes it easy for everyone to click over. Do you have any favorite stories that just come to mind as you reflect on your years with the Forgotten Initiative? [00:12:19]
Jamie Kaeb: What God has really taught me through this journey is that the birth family is so much a part of this as well. So many times I think when we think about adoption or foster care, we think about just the child. But there are parents out there, and really on the day that we received those wonderful boys who we just love, that was the day that their parents' arms were empty as well. And so our hearts were full because we were ready to start, but the sailing on the other side was empty and broken. So there's just pain and joy that go side by side in foster care and adoption.
I think so much of the experiences I've had with their birth mom. I'll call her Sandra here. But I remember the first time we ever talked and she was nervous and I was nervous and she had stereotypes of foster parents like me and I had stereotypes of birth parents like her. And yet as we talked and we started to learn each other's stories, we developed a relationship to the point that when she became pregnant again, she asked me to be at the birth. [00:13:22]
Those who know me know I am very weak in the mind, in the sense of, if you talk about a health issue... in fact, this happened to me once where someone was telling me about their health issue and I literally passed right out. I am not very strong in this way, so I was like, Okay, Lord, if you want me to do this, then you have to work supernaturally. But the opportunity to be at the birth when nobody else was there, to be able to go there with her, to breathe with her, to wipe her forehead with a cool rag when she was contracting.
And then I remember one time as she had kind of gotten the pain under control, I was going to go down and quickly grab a sandwich. And I didn't want to eat in front of her because when I was in labor, I did not want people eating in front of me. And so I thought, "Okay, I'm going to head down." And she stopped me at the dorm. She said, Jamie, "Will you come right back up?"
To me, it just reminded me of the power of my presence. I didn't do it perfectly by any means, but I was there for her. She wasn't that much younger than me, maybe 10 years, but I was like a mom figure to her. And what's been really amazing is that even now we have a relationship. [00:14:31]
We brought those kids into our home in 2010, and even now we have a relationship. And she has said to me over the years, "Jamie, thank you for not changing your phone number. Thank you for being there when I call." There's times over the years we talked very, very little. But now she has two little boys that have never seen foster care. So we are able to bring those boys into our home. Once a month I give her a break and we take them overnight. So our kids are actually experiencing time with their birth siblings.
And she told me the other day that she was talking about me and she described me as her best, best friend.
To me, that is just a picture of redemption and a picture of just God's beauty from ashes. And I get to tell her, "Listen, you have done a good job. You are a good mom. It is okay to need a break." And she eats that up because she needs to hear that word of affirmation.
So many of our kids in foster care and our parents in foster care, they must know that they are special, that their life is valuable, that they are not what they've done, but they are precious in the sight of God. [00:15:36]
Laura Dugger: It's just a side of foster care that you really don't naturally think of. So it's great to bring that to light. And you had alluded to this earlier. You mentioned there's been some difficult seasons as well. Can you just share?
Jamie Kaeb: Yes, absolutely. I would say the most difficult piece of adoption or foster care specifically for me is the emotional roller coaster. Because when you adapt internationally, there are challenges for sure. But what we learned in adoption is that even though we might not always feel 100% bonded to the child, we are 100% committed. We're not going anywhere, and neither are they.
With foster care though, you can be 100% committed to the time that you have. You don't know that they're going to be there forever. So you don't get the opportunity to dream of their future in your family. You are not their parent and it is your job to still respect their parent for being a human being and understanding that kids want to be with their mom and dad. [00:16:37]
I remember nights just holding Bobby as a baby and just thinking, "Okay, Lord, I love this kid so much but he's not mine, and I've got to release him to you because I don't know if he's going to go home." I think that is extremely challenging.
Then just the vulnerability. I can talk now about my relationship with their birth mom, but there were definitely times when I couldn't take her texts or her calls because I was so emotionally spent. I did not have any energy for her. She was not in a healthy place at that stage as she is now.
And so I think the weariness and the pouring out of yourself and the behaviors that can come from kids with trauma, the fact that many of them have learning disabilities. And these were all things we had not experienced before. So they were all very new. And understanding why is a child who's eight years old acting like a three-year-old. [00:17:29]
We learned in foster care classes and through our experience that kids have different ages in the sense that let's say there's a child who's eight physically, but in their little life, they have seen more than maybe a 50-year-old has seen. So experientially, they might be 50 but emotionally, they have not been cared for in the way a healthy family cares for their child. So they have not had these building blocks.
So their emotional age is maybe more of a 3-year-old. And so when they throw a fit, they may look more like a 3-year-old because they don't know how to do it like an 8-year-old. So just learning those things and trying to understand kids where they're at and not parent the way you just feel to parent, even though we blew it many times.
But the other thing is I definitely went through a season of depression through that, starting having three kids and then going to six kids essentially in a few months. We moved, we got head lice, we got staph infections, all things that came through foster care. [00:18:33]
Those are the hard things. I mean, I just remember feeling so dark sometimes and so vulnerable and like, I don't want to do this anymore. It is not fun. It is scary. What if something happens to my children? All those kinds of questions and fears are very real in the foster care journey.
Laura Dugger: Wow, thank you for being transparent so that we can put ourselves in your shoes.
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Laura Dugger: During those really dark seasons, what was it that got you through that time?
Jamie Kaeb: Oh, I think certainly the body of Christ. This is something I think. Like, I remember one night just crying out to God and just being so down and getting a phone call from my mom and just, "Hey, I want to check on you. I know you've been struggling."
And I'll tell you, like, I could still cry about that today because I think so much how I grew up in a loving Christian home. I had every opportunity that I could ever hope for. And yet I still get very down sometimes and I still struggle and I still feel insecure.
Then I think about these kids and these families and how can we expect them to walk in a healthy way all the time or to just keep going or to just do what they need to do because they don't have the people around them. [00:20:40]
I remember one time when we had head lice and I was so... this was right after our third one came and I was so [inaudible 00:20:49] And Clint and I were going to take a date and we needed this date so desperately. And a friend was going to come babysit. And when we found the head lice, I texted her and said, "Listen, this is our situation, you know, we'll reschedule." And she wrote right back and she said, "No, no, no, I'm still coming. I'll be there."
Again, another time I could just bawl because she was willing to step into our mess and be there for us. And I can't tell you, that night was so powerful, just to know that there's people with us. I can still remember where I was standing when I opened a note from a friend who said, "I just want you to know that I appreciate what you're doing and we're praying for you. And here's a gift card to Starbucks. Go have a coffee on us."
These kinds of things might seem so simple to us, but for the one who's struggling, oh my goodness, it means everything because what it says to us is that we're not alone. [00:21:41]
Laura Dugger: Wow. And that mobilizes all of us to know what kind of action we can all take even today. It just leads into another question I have. You've talked about the difficulties, but what have been some of the unexpected joys?
Jamie Kaeb: I would say the opportunity to enter someone else's story, the opportunity to have my eyes opened in a way that would not have happened without foster care adoption, the opportunity to experience Christ in a whole new way when things kind of seem like they're okay, the opportunity to watch my biological kids open their arms to kids from other homes, other cultures, other ethnicities, the opportunity to live in a family that is very diverse and that we can say to each other different is awesome.
I mean, there are so many. I cannot even begin to say what a gift foster care has been to our family and to our home. We would not be the same people we are today. And just the opportunity to know my children. Five of my children I would never know without foster care or adoption. [00:22:45]
Laura Dugger: Yes. And we hear you. We see you. We appreciate all that you've done as well. More importantly, you know that God sees you. Is there anything specific that He's taught you through this season?
Jamie Kaeb: Yes. I would say a few things. It's not about me. That's a big one. Just realizing that it's not about me. His job is not to make me happy or to make things go okay for me. He's going to be there with me always, but it's not about me. When things go wrong, it's not because He's angry with me. It's just because life is hard and He's going to be there. So that's a huge one. It's not about me.
Another one, God's plan is often different than our plan. But when you trust Him, oh my goodness, the adventure of faith. I love walking this journey because it is so beyond me, and to be able to experience the adventure of faith. We went through a failed adoption in Uganda, and going through that experience was extremely painful. [00:23:47]
But before meeting our little girl, we found ourselves on these bota-botas, which are like dirt bikes, traveling, riding up into the mountains of Uganda with 100-foot drop-offs off the side as the path narrowed and narrowed on our way to meet our little girl, going by kids who had never seen White people in their lives, yelling out to us, "Mzungu, Mzungu!"
Experiencing opportunities like this, meeting her sister, we didn't know she had a sister, meeting her family, ultimately that adoption didn't go through, and it's good it didn't. But meeting her sister, having an opportunity to show these girls what running water is, what toilets are, speaking some English to them, just loving them, brushing their hair, getting an opportunity to create an internship for her older sister so she could learn how to do hair after I found out she loved that.
I mean, going to Uganda and living there for a month as we finished up the adoption of Friday, meeting our son for the first time wearing pink pants and a bunny shirt, understanding that he was ours and we were his,
going to Guatemala and meeting our son Hudson, meeting our little children here for the first time, going to court, meeting their birth parents. [00:25:05]
I mean, the adventure of faith when you let go and you trust God, it's wild. So I would say that it's not about me. God's plan is often different, but trust Him because you don't want to miss out.
Then finally, this has been more of a recent learning as we enter and love on people who are vulnerable, even today, that my job is not to help them look like me. It's not my job to make them look like me, but my job is to love them like Jesus. It is too hard to try to be the savior for them. That's not our job. It's not our job to be the hero. Our job is to simply be there and to love them.
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I've heard you say before that not everyone is going to be a foster parent, but everyone can still play a part. So would you mind just educating us a bit on foster care needs and how each of us can get involved?
Jamie Kaeb: Well, I think it's also important to understand from the get-go that children enter foster care because of abuse or neglect. It's not because of something they have done. Sometimes people don't understand that. They think, you know, it's a delinquent child or they've had to leave because of something they've done in their home. That is not the case. So I do just want to mention that.
So that means they're entering foster care with trauma. And trauma can show itself out in a lot of different ways in behaviors. Someone once said, I think it was Josh Shipp, said, what kids don't talk out, they'll act out. So just understand some of those things from the front. [00:27:11]
But I think when you talk about foster care needs, they really are as unique as you and I. Sometimes they're tangible needs, like a bed, for example. Kids cannot return home until they have a bed in the home. So maybe Dad has done everything that he needs to do, but he can't afford to get a bed. So that's where TFI can come in, or anyone really. But that's where people come in and bring a bed to this dad so that his kids can come home. We've seen that happen. Backpacks. We call them journey bags. You can call them whatever you want, but they're backpacks for kids who come into care. They're filled with brand new items.
The reason for this is because otherwise kids have garbage bags. They're moved from home to home with garbage bags. In fact, I remember hearing a story in our area of a little girl who was six years old, and she moved to a new foster home with her garbage bag. And as her foster dad was unpacking, she stopped him because he was about to throw away that garbage bag. And she stopped him and said, "Oh, no, no, please don't throw that away. I'm going to need that when I move again." [00:28:15] So for a kid to think that that's their normal.
A journey bag is so small, but the response we get from kids who receive those bags and even teenagers who receive those bags and the agency, they love handing those out because it's just like Christmas. It's just a little joy in the midst of a hard time. It's not everything.
We've heard stories of kids actually coming to Jesus because they read the Bible that was in the bag, and it brought them back to the faith that they had learned of long ago. We've had kids who have seen a bag, and in one story, a church had like 500 bags, and half of those bags went to one agency, and another sort went to another agency, and one kid opens his bag and it has the book Diarrhea of a Wimpy Kid, which is his absolute favorite book. And not everybody has that. I mean, just little tiny touch points that God says, "I see you. I'm with you. I love you."
Notes of encouragement is huge. Like I told you in my situation, but we've also heard foster moms receiving a note from a journey bag. Her teenager had the journey bag. It was a very hard placement. We heard that this mom took that note out of the bag that was written to her and she put that on her fridge and that note is what kept her going because she knew that she could do this. She was not in this alone. [00:29:32]
So there are so many tangible needs. So many. There's also very many emotional needs. Kids need mentors. Kids need to know that they have someone to look up to. They need people to just be there. Families need mentors. Kids need life skills help.
A lot of times kids who are aging out don't even know how to do something as simple maybe that seems to us as baking cookies. They've never had that life experience that we've done with our moms for years. They don't know how to balance a checkbook. They don't know how, if they need glasses, to go advocate for themselves and go get glasses. I mean, they don't know how to put together a resume. They don't know what to do when their car breaks down. I mean, they just don't know because they haven't experienced it.
The needs are... there's thousands of them. But the idea that we like to impress on people is that, what are you excited about? And then what do you do good at? Are you good at art? Are you good at painting? Are you good at...? And then try to match that up with maybe a need that is in your area. [00:30:35]
If you have a TFI advocate in your area, talk to them, find out what the needs are right now in your community and you can do that. Again, just go to the website and there's a page that says "meet our advocates" and you can find your advocate in your area. Ask them what are the needs and then find the need that fits you and make a difference.
Laura Dugger: Looking at bigger picture, what vision do you have for the church and foster care in the future?
Jamie Kaeb: I envision God's people rising up in every single community across our nation to serve, to mentor, to support the men, the women, and the children in foster care. I want to see God's people... and it's happening through TFI, through many, many other organizations as well. It is a movement that is bigger than one organization. But that God's people are rising up and they are seeing this need, they're seeing these people and that they are getting involved at all different levels. And so that is our vision.
Our mission is that God's people rise up in every single community, whether that be through TFI or not. So that is why we are so intentional about bringing awareness and education and opportunities to serve. [00:31:39]
Laura Dugger: And you've given us a resource where we can get started with your website. You also do podcasts where you highlight foster care stories and even things we wouldn't think of related to it, like human trafficking. What other resources would you recommend if somebody wants to learn more about this topic?
Jamie Kaeb: Our Facebook page, the whole point of our Facebook page is just to bring hope and encouragement in education. And so you're going to find little about TFI and a lot just opportunities to share or get insight. So go there, facebook.com/forgotteninitiative and you're just going to see a lot of graphics that have a quote on them or an article that is going to bring encouragement or awareness. That's a huge place to go.
Our blog that's on our website. I love our blog because it is written by foster parents, by people in the field. I mean, we basically just try to curate a lot of great content. We find great bloggers and we say, "Hey, do you want to join our team?" [00:32:39] So our blogs are not written by TFI, they're written by people out in the field. So we're just trying to share.
Basically, I heard, I think it was Michael Hyatt saying once, you need to be the DJ and play the hits. And that's kind of our goal on Facebook, on Instagram, on our blog is let's find the best information and get it out there in the hands of our people.
The other thing I really am excited about is we just created a brand new children's book series. We call it the Who Loves series. This is for kids in foster care specifically, though any child could read it. And I would encourage other children who don't have this experience to read it too, because it will definitely give them an insight into the world of those kids in foster care who may be in their own classrooms at school.
So this brand new resource you can find at wholoveseries.org. But there's basically three books, and they're written to different age groups, to babies, to toddlers, or babies, to 3-7 year olds, and to 7-10 year olds. And it just really gives insight into the people that our kids interact with and also the emotions and the questions that our kids in foster care have. [00:33:46]
Laura Dugger: That is so exciting. I didn't know about that. Any other resources you would recommend?
Jamie Kaeb: Find our website, find the blog, find the podcast. I mean, all of that is great. But I would also say there's some other great podcasts out there. There's a blog called Confessions of an Adaptive Parent.
They do a blog called Honestly Adoption.
There's a blog on a ministry called Tapestry Ministry, Empowered to Connect. Their podcast is a lot more about, okay, I found out my child's lying, what do I do? So they're gonna be a lot more practical.
There's a book called Confessions of an Adoptive Parent, a book by Jason Johnson called Reframing Foster Care. We live in a good time, you guys, because there's a lot of good information.
One other thing is anyone who enjoys conferences, there's a conference called CAFO, Christian Alliance for Orphans, but it is a conference if you are interested in foster care adoption or orphan care of any kind, you need to go. They do come this way, they've been in Chicago. But that's a really great resource too. [00:34:52]
There's also a conference called Refresh, and that is a conference for foster parents and those who are considering foster care as well.
Laura Dugger: Awesome. This conversation has been eye-opening. I just appreciate your openness to share your story. Now we'll end with a more playful question. So our podcast is called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. "Savvy" means practical knowledge or discernment. And now knowing that definition, what is your savvy sauce?
Jamie Kaeb: I would say, I mean, practical knowledge... I am not a very practical person in a lot of ways, but I'll tell you some little tips of things that I do in my life to kind of keep things going. One thing that has been huge for our family is we call it quiet time. We started this when Paige really was two and she stopped taking naps. And I was like, no, no, this is not good.
When we had few kids the quiet time was much shorter. As we've grown in our family, the quiet time has gotten quite a bit longer. But I'll tell you every single day... Now all my kids are at school but even on the weekends we make our kids go to their rooms and do something quietly for two and a half hours. [00:36:06]
I know two and a half hours might sound like a whole lot of time. But I'm telling you it is essential for our family because I need that time and my kids need that time. And they don't love it but they have learned too that's just part of our life. And I want them to understand that in your daily rhythm, you need to take time to just pause and to stop and to be quiet.
I would say also scheduling date nights with your spouse, that has been huge for Clint and I. We schedule date night every two weeks and we have a sitter and we have it on the calendar and it just happens. And we forget that it's coming up and all of a sudden we'll see in our calendar, Oh my goodness, it's date night. That has been huge for us to just stay connected.
We go out for four hours, so we go out and we sit and eat and then we'll just maybe go to Barnes and Nobles and just read even separately. It's enough time that we can talk through whatever we need to talk through. [00:37:03]
Honestly, sometimes we can even get a little bit bored and be like, okay, what do we do now? And I think that's a healthy place to be because you need that time. There's nights when we just talk, talk, talk and there's nights when we'll sit and read together, just be... I think date nights with kids is another big thing that we do.
Actually, it's eight in the mornings usually, once a week, in general. This definitely can spread out longer than it is. But once a week, I will take a kid or Clint will take a kid out to like Denny's for breakfast. And so basically the goal is that every week one of us is taking one of our kids. For us, having a big family, it's really, really important to us that we invest in them, that they know that they are heard. They're not just one of the pack. I want them to know that mom gets me, and mom hears me, and mom sees me, and dad sees me.
So those are a few things I think are huge. Can I give a couple more? I love this kind of stuff.
Laura Dugger: This is amazing.
Jamie Kaeb: This gets me going. This gets me excited, is organization stuff, because I think having a big family, you feel like a lot of things are out of control. [00:38:07] And so there are some things you can control.
Putting workout clothes out the night before so when I wake up, I will go to the gym. If I don't put them out, often I won't go. That's something simple. I think making kids work is huge. I tell them, "Guys, I can't do this on my own. I need your help.
I heard from a friend who taught her kids when they were eight years old how to do laundry. So last summer, I taught all kids who were eight and older how to do their own laundry. And in the summer, their job was to do their own laundry, to wash, dry and fold it and get it in their rooms. That was huge.
The final thing that has been a game changer and has changed my whole life is online grocery ordering.
Laura Dugger: Well, with a family that big, you have to have these amazing ways to all work together. I just want to say thank you for bringing a voice to the voiceless, for being obedient to God's specific call on your life. Your faith has clearly been put into action, and it glorifies our God. He's the one who desires and offers to be the Father to the fatherless. So thanks again for doing your part, Jamie.
Jamie Kaeb: Laura, thank you so much. [00:39:16]
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:40:22]
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:41:24]
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Nov 19, 2018
Monday Nov 19, 2018
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: You guys, today I have the privilege to interview a leader who I have admired my entire life. He is a natural teacher and his sense of humor will be evident as you hear our chat. He is president and CEO of Leman Property Management, so his financial and business principles are incredible. But more importantly to me, he's my dad. I am so honored to get to share him with you today. I hope you enjoy his life lessons as much as I have.
This episode was made possible by an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank. They paid the sponsorship bit to help spread the word that Midwest Food Bank works to alleviate hunger and poverty throughout the world by gathering food donations and distributing them to nonprofit agencies and disaster sites.
If you would like to learn more about Midwest Food Bank, make a donation, or see what volunteer opportunities are available, please visit them at midwestfoodbank.org. [00:01:25]
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Dad.
Bill Leman: Thanks. It's great to be with you here.
Laura Dugger: I'm so excited. This is very special to get to spend some intentional time with you. Your life experience and thoughtful reflection are a few reasons we want to glean life wisdom from you today. So, let's start off by having you tell everyone a little bit more about your background.
Bill Leman: Okay. I was born in a town of about 2,000, born and raised there, and I had 10 siblings. My brother always liked to say that he had five sisters, and each one of them had five brothers. We had a big family, but we were very close and a great childhood.
I married Jeanne Grimm, who's not only been an incredible wife and mother, but is also really my best friend. We talked when we got married, and we just both agreed that we always wanted to have each other as our best friend, and that's truly the way it's been all these years. We just celebrated our 42nd anniversary a couple weeks ago.
We were blessed with three amazing children. One of them actually produces podcasts. And they married three wonderful spouses and each couple has blessed us with three beautiful grandchildren. So we're kind of a symmetrical family, I guess. Three is an important number to us.
I'm thankful to have become a CPA after graduating from Illinois State University, and I've enjoyed being a part of a public accounting firm for a short time, followed by almost 40 years in the real estate management business. [00:02:58]
Laura Dugger: You've told me that there were a few specific mentor figures in your life who gave you helpful advice. Who were those people, and what did they teach you?
Bill Leman: I had some great mentors. My father and grandfather, I had uncles on both sides of the family and one minister who really helped shape who I am. They provided guidance about my outlook on life and very practical examples of how I should live life.
The specific examples that I can think of are maintaining a positive attitude, expecting the best. I learned that from a couple of my uncles. From my father, I learned about doing my part in every aspect of life. Most importantly, from all of them I learned about loving God and trusting in Him in everything I do, and to walk close to Him, and to stay in tune with His Word and His Holy Spirit.
Laura Dugger: You always have had an extremely positive outlook on life. Where does that come from? [00:03:59]
Bill Leman: Well, I was always given very positive feedback and support by those mentors and by others, and by my family. A lot of it is just supported by passages from the Bible. I think the Bible is the most positive book you can ever get your hands on.
I just jotted down a few of the verses that quickly came to my mind when I thought about positive outlooks that the Bible shares. These are different verses. I can do all things through Christ. With God all things are possible. Ask and you shall receive. Freely you have received, freely give.
So there's four passages that talk about a positive outlook on life. I was able to experience just some wonderful results when I tried that, when I implemented that mindset and I looked to expecting the best and to believe that everything was possible and the results are so reinforcing. [00:04:59]
Kind of a cute example, we had a local bank who every year hosted an economic forecast breakfast and there were maybe 200 people that would be invited for breakfast, and we all filled out a form of our predictions for the year to come.
I remember specifically one year, I thought, you know what, I'm just going to answer each one of these in the most optimistic possible way that I can answer it. And I did. And a year later, I was given the trophy for the most right. And I thought, when I'm looking for the best, somehow God provides that for me.
Laura Dugger: What or who would you say is most important in your life?
Bill Leman: That has probably somewhat evolved over the years, although there are some things that definitely remain the same. I'll go through a few of those. First of all, who's important? Jesus is the most important to me. Walking with Him yields what the Bible kind of talks about as fruit of the Spirit. Some of my favorites there are love and joy and peace and contentment, all things that come from following God. [00:06:09]
Secondly is definitely my wife, Jeanne. She gives wonderful support. She helps me focus on what's important. She helps me put things in perspective. Not least important, she makes me laugh. She's got a wonderful sense of humor and it's just made our life so enjoyable.
I always kept a couple of sayings in my desk drawer in one in my clothes closet. And I noticed that she would spot those and she'd insert little comments that were making sure that I saw things the way that she saw them. I just would have to laugh when I'd open my desk drawer and see that and see how she had changed some advice I was giving to myself and making sure that her perspective was represented as well.
I had one in my desk, and as a matter of fact, I still have it. I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something to the effect that when you get to the end of your life and you could change anything, you would probably go to less meetings and spend more time with your kids. [00:07:10] And she put a little carrot mark in there and put "and with your wife". It was things like that that just kind of made my day when I'd see those.
She is really the biggest reason, as you so well know, that our family is so close. She always said, "You're never any happier than your least happy child. So she made it her endeavor to make sure our children were always happy. And it was so true. If one of our kids was hurting, that would set the limit on how happy she was. She's been just a real blessing and definitely high, high on my list of important things or important people.
Then I guess thirdly would obviously be my children and grandchildren. I've learned a huge amount from them. I can give you some examples there if you'd like. With Drew, I remember one time we had gone on a family vacation and I had a bellboy who was just insistent on putting our luggage into our van. [00:08:15] I had a way that I liked to do it where it all fit right and it was how I wanted it.
And I told him, "I'll just get this" and he just insisted that he would do it. So he put it all in there. As he was turning around to leave, then I took it all out and restacked it the way I wanted it. Drew called me out on that and said, "You know, he's just trying to help bad." And it was true. It was a lesson for me.
I think too, when I think of relationships... and I guess I said earlier, some things have evolved. And I think that's one area. After Jesus and after Jeanne and after my family, I maybe would have gotten into the what's were most important. And I think you probably, more than you realize, helped me realize that relationships are what's important and it's other people and my interaction with them. So that's one thing that I learned from you.
I think of Natalie and I think of her sense of humor. She could find funny things in any situation in life. She just added a lot of spice to my life by sharing some of those funny things and doing funny things. In the summer we'd work together. She worked at one of the apartments we managed. I had a seat heater and she loved to be able to sneak over and turn that on in the summer when I wasn't looking and pretty soon I'd be roasting and she would think that was so funny. But she really had a great sense of humor. So I picked up so much from my kids. [00:09:54]
So those relationships, those order of importance have all stayed the same but what's changed is my emphasis switching from some of the what's that followed that to some of the who's that followed that.
I really saw a lot of family love modeled by both my father and my grandfather. Little things that were done or said and I picked up that I'm sure they didn't even realize somebody was observing, really showed me the importance of loving family and how to love your family.
Laura Dugger: I haven't heard you tell many stories about your grandfather, you know, some more about your dad, but when you think back on either one of those men in your life, what are some stories that come to mind?
Bill Leman: I just saw in him a willingness to put his family first. There were times when it was family or maybe something personally that he would enjoy, he would go with family. And it just always impressed me.
Laura Dugger: What would you say that you've intentionally shared with your children? [00:10:58]
Bill Leman: Well, I've tried to share with you, with my kids, those things that I found yielded me the most rewarding experiences in my life. When I had something that really resulted in a great experience, I wanted you to experience that as well.
There's a number of those. A love of Jesus and worship of God, keeping a positive outlook. You know, whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Be willing to work hard. I read once that you can have reasons or results, and reasons don't count. So that comes from hard work and to be willing to just put your all into a problem.
To not focus on problems, but to focus on promises. It's always the glass half full or the glass half empty. We have so many promises in God's Word that we can rely on. We shouldn't have to focus on problems that we're having. [00:11:56]
One thing that was so important to me, and I really wanted to make sure my kids got the concept, was really the result of an experience I had, a kind of a light bulb moment for me in my life. It was soon after we got married and Jeanne worked at a doctor's office and they were taking a series of motivational classes at night. And she won an award one night for one of her talks.
The reward or the award was a book called The Richest Man in Babylon. I read that book and something in there just really, really struck me because it was something I had never thought about, and it made me not only think about it but change how I acted.
There were two men who were earning different amounts and the richest man in Babylon was talking with them and he asked them each how much they made and they told him they were different. And then he asked him how much they had saved. And that number was the same for both—it was zero. And what he taught them was you need to... he called it pay yourself first. What it meant was you need to save. You need to put some aside. [00:13:10]
That was just really a concept that I had never even given any thought. When we first got married, I'd been going to college for four years. We got married the week after I graduated. Those four years I was living on $2,000 to $3,000 a year. Now, all of a sudden, we get married, and I got my first job. It paid $11,750 a year. Jeanne was working in this doctor's office, she was making about $5,000.
And I remember thinking, "Where are we going to spend all this money? It didn't take long to find out that it didn't work that way." But at that point, we didn't have any kids. We were living in an apartment. I got paid once a month. We did have to do a little budgeting because of that. We'd set aside what we knew we were going to have to come up with for the next month and then we'd take off and go decide how to spend the rest. I remember we'd buy some furniture, or we'd buy a new grill, or just that was the project was, where does the rest of this money go?
Spending less than you earn or saving was just not something I'd ever thought about. I've been taught that concept, but it's different in really applying it. [00:14:29] That concept, more than any other one, I think changed my financial status in life because we started intentionally saving. There's other aspects of that as well, investing and those type of things, but really just getting started on spending less than we made. So I wanted to make sure my kids got that concept.
Laura Dugger: Do you remember any ways that you tried to make sure you would instill that in us?
Bill Leman: Well, I think we had you save some money, maybe from when you earned money or when we gave you an allowance. We always had you pull out a little bit of that for Sunday school and pull out a little bit for savings. Those were kind of ways that we wanted to teach that to you.
But I think more importantly than that, the whole concept of financial responsibility goes so far beyond just saving. When we took the Crown Financial Bible Study, Mom and I took it, and we really learned just a terrific amount of really good practical advice from that. [00:15:37]
Of course, you remember then we were able... I ended up teaching that class for you and a group of your friends, and Drew and Natalie. Really I think that was probably the primary way that we tried to pass that on, just the good lessons that were learned through Crown Financial Study.
I certainly always recommend that to anybody. It's a big part of anybody's life, and to be able to get on top of it, and you know... The thing that is the most rewarding to me is to see how my kids outperform me on some things. I've seen it with you and Mark, how you save and how you designate funds far beyond what I ever did.
We'd maybe talk about sticking different amounts in an envelope, but you actually set up bank accounts for each of your different expenses. Like I said, that gives me the greatest satisfaction of seeing that advice that we've given be put into practical use by our children. [00:16:43]
Laura Dugger: And I just want to encourage any parents that are listening, I think back, I remember as early as five years old, when I did get that allowance, I remember where I'd be sitting on the stairs. It was $3. And you did designate, this one we give back to God so you can put it in your Sunday school box, this one's to save and then the other one usually went toward candy for me.
But those principles that you taught early on you were able to build on it later. And I wasn't even a Christian when you taught Crown Financial but that is part of my story. That Bible study is what got me back in the word and started giving me a conscience again. It was a few months after that that I gave my life to the Lord. So I would second everything that you're saying. Start young and it's never too late.
Bill Leman: Yeah, that's great to hear. Then another big lesson for all of us was to try to be generous with what you've been blessed with. Again, it goes back to that Bible verse: freely received, freely give. [00:17:43] I think we in America, the poorest of us, have so much that we've been given, the freedoms that we enjoy, and just the blessings that we have in this land. We've been given a lot, and there's a responsibility then to freely give as well.
I think of another Bible verse is that you brought nothing into this world and it's certain you're going to take nothing out. So there's really no need to have any other attitude than that it's God's money and it needs to be spent how He wants it spent.
I remember a sermon once that I heard where the minister talked about a man who died and somebody asked, "How much did he leave?" The answer came back "He left it all". So we know that when this life's over, nothing that we have here will mean anything to us in terms of any material blessings that we have.
Laura Dugger: Going further on that topic, I know that I have already learned so much from my children. Was there anything that you learned from the three of us? [00:18:48]
Bill Leman: Oh, yeah. It's really pretty incredible, I would say, the amount that I've learned from my children. I've seen a full-life commitment from all of you towards reading God's Word and striving to live the teachings that it contains. Like I said, sometimes I see it far exceeding my own commitment.
Laura Dugger: And now a brief message from our sponsor.
Sponsor: This sponsorship message is unique because an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Midwest Food Bank works to alleviate hunger and poverty throughout the world by gathering food donations and distributing them to nonprofit agencies and disaster sites.
Over $11.5 million worth of food is distributed to over 1,700 nonprofit organizations each month. In 2017 alone, over 132,000 family food boxes were distributed to disaster victims. Thanks to the generosity of donors, the valuable work of volunteers, and most importantly, the blessings of God, Midwest Food Bank shares the blessings worldwide. More than 3.6 million people were impacted last year. This is done from their eight United States and two international locations.
To learn more about Midwest Food Bank, to make a donation, or to see what volunteer opportunities are available, please visit them at MidwestFoodBank.org. [00:20:14]
How have you seen God's direction in your life?
Bill Leman: It seems like all my life I've seen God either open or close doors for me, and I'm happiest when I can just trust that that is the process that He's using to direct me. If there's a decision to be made and I'm peaceful about a certain way to go about it, I take that as God's affirmation.
When I think of probably the worst financial decision I've ever made in my life, I remember making that decision. And I remember, I think it was Mark Twain who said, when you get to the end of your life, you'll have more regrets about what you didn't do than what you did. And I thought that was great advice, and I actually kind of relied on that in making this decision to get involved actually with a brokerage company that didn't go well at all.
It really taught me that it's such a mistake to try to base decisions on man's wisdom and on how things should be how we think they should be, rather than going to God in prayer and just asking for His direction. [00:21:27] I heard a speaker once talk and say, Don't expect God to keep opening doors if you don't have the courage to go through. And I thought that's such great advice and it applied so much to my life when doors would open sometimes and it just looked like it was too big of a thing to do, I'd hesitate to go through. I think that's an important concept that as those doors open God does expect us to react to His direction and to do what he's leading us to do.
One thing that I've consistently noticed is that when I take a problem to God and ask for His help, the resulting answer is often much better than what I had ever imagined could happen. I've seen that in some big decisions. I can think of one where I bought out a business partner and it worked out. When I took it to God, it worked out in a way far better than I had ever expected it to or envisioned it happening.
And it works in small situations. Just this past winter, Mom and I were going to take a flight to Florida. We had a connecting flight at O'Hare, and we were leaving from Bloomington, and the Bloomington flight got fogged in, and we couldn't leave for three or four hours, which made us miss our connecting flight. [00:22:50]
So now all of a sudden, we're in Chicago, in a big snowstorm and every flight the rest of that day and the next two days was booked. There wasn't an open seat on any flight going to anywhere close to where we were going in Florida. So our first day up there we were on standby and we didn't make it onto that flight. So we had to stay in Chicago that night. We even thought about renting a car and just driving. It just looked so impossible for us to get there.
I remember just committing that to God, "Whatever happens here, let's just take it to be the way it's supposed to be happening." Well, the next morning at seven o'clock, when there was another flight and we went, we were on standby and there were two spots open. And Mom had a nice seat right up in the front. My seat, I love the aisle. I was on the aisle. I rarely pay the extra money to get the exit row, but I got the exit row. [00:23:51]
It's just such a good example of a small problem, but how God provides far beyond what we even hope for. I'd have been happy to stand on that plane the whole way down and back in the bathroom if I'd needed to get down there, but I was on a nice aisle seat in the exit row.
I don't actually hear it this audibly, but I hear still a voice in situations like that where God is just speaking to me and saying, How did I do? It happens in a way when I'm not even thinking about it and that thought comes to me. I think it's amazing how God provides.
Laura Dugger: That one chokes me up a bit. He's such a good God and such a good Father. I love that example. How would you say that you define success?
Bill Leman: Well, once again, my mentors have given me some guidance on that. I'm not very creative or original, but I can remember things that people teach me, I guess. [00:24:55] So I just remember [Gene Bertucci?], who is our church elder, repeated once a definition that he had heard of success. And it said, success is a progressive realization of a predetermined worthwhile goal. If it's a worthwhile goal and you thought about it and as you make progress towards that, that's success.
A couple of other thoughts that kind of relate to success that I've heard and have stuck with me. One was a comment "to have more, desire less". And another, the most blessed person in the world might very well be walking right in our midst, and really it could be you or me.
I think the concept here is that what are the true treasures that life has to offer? If we're getting those true treasures, how blessed we are. When you think in those terms and depending on how you define blessed, you might well be the most blessed person in the world. [00:25:54]
Laura Dugger: We're going to go a different route now. Will you share for everyone the journey of how you chose your occupation?
Bill Leman: Sure. This is really a great example of how I feel God has led me through many of the most important events in my life. When I started college, I thought I wanted to be a dentist. And I based that on a comment that my mother had made once and on the financial status of dentists that I knew. Neither one of those are very good reasons to choose a career.
So I started taking a lot of science courses, which were interesting, but I had no passion for it and no love for that topic. But I lived in an apartment with a couple of roommates, and the second semester my sophomore year, they were both majoring in business and accounting, and we would eat supper together. And they would often talk about their business law class that they were both taking together. And I found it to be just fascinating. I loved hearing about it. [00:27:00]
I took my dental admission tests, applied after my sophomore year to a dental school. It was kind of a long shot to be able to get in after two years. Most people get in after three or four. I went ahead and tried, but I got turned down. Then I decided, based on that experience that I'd had with my roommates, that I was going to switch my majors to accounting. In order to do that, I'm done with my sophomore year now, so I've got two years. And in order to fit in all the classes, I had to take a summer class, which I did, and was able to still get everything in four years in order to graduate with a degree in accounting.
So, then when I graduated from ISU, got married, and I started my first job with a public accounting firm, and I loved my fellow employees, we had a young firm. I think I was the seventh person in the firm and was working with one of the roommates. He and I had been great friends. And I loved the job. And I thought I was set, this is where I was supposed to be. [00:28:11]
Well, one of my biggest clients, was my biggest client, was a real estate developer and he ran into a problem. He had a controller who got sick and died very quickly. And we worked hard trying to get him set up with a new person to come in and be his financial person. And it just wasn't... we had a guy hired and didn't work out. I was getting concerned because again it was my large client and I was afraid things were going to be in a mess for us.
He started pushing me a little bit to take the job. I remember talking with Jeanne about it and it was a little further away from the office yet. Instead of a half-hour drive it was a 45-minute drive. I remember Jeanne saying, as long as I don't have to move, I don't care if you work here. So I went. [00:29:10]
I really thought when I went I'd probably be there about a year and get things kind of settled down and straightened out and then go back to the CPA firm. But you know, I found that I loved that work and I just really enjoyed real estate. God just had a total hand in getting me into a career that I've now spent 40 years in and just thoroughly enjoyed. There's not a day that I haven't looked forward to going to the office.
Laura Dugger: And now you even get to work with your brother and your son.
Bill Leman: You're right. That's just been a highlight of my life is being able to work with family like that. And back again to learning from your kids, I learned a lot from Drew just in our business.
Laura Dugger: I can't remember the stories, but I feel like some of your professors in school taught you some really neat things about business. Do you remember any things that stuck with you from professors? [00:30:08]
Bill Leman: Well, I remember Max Rexrode, Dr. Rexrode, was kind of the unofficial dean of the accounting school. He was the professor that we all just loved taking his classes. And I remember him one day writing up on the board, He said, when he graduated from college he drew a big circle and he drew a line up to the big city. And he says, everybody was saying, go to the big city. And he did. He went to Chicago and got in with one of the big eight, at that time it was eight big accounting firms.
He said, my advice to you is you find out where everybody's going, and he drew this arrow, and he says, "You go this way". And he drew it the opposite way. It's true. I mean, one thing when you're in a small business, I don't know, sometimes you tend to look at what you could have done maybe or what could have happened in a larger company, in a larger metropolitan area. [00:31:08]
I mean, there's struggles that we have in our area with real estate that you probably wouldn't have if you picked a bigger metropolitan area. But his advice was good advice, I thought.
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I have to say, to watch you develop your spiritual gift of generosity, Dad, I do believe it's something that's supernatural that was given to you. I've seen you exercise that giving muscle, and I've learned so much just watching you cultivate that gift. How do you give back as an attempt to show appreciation for what you've been given? [00:32:18]
Bill Leman: Well, once again, I would go back to the idea of just following through doors that God opens. When I get involved in an organization, it's somehow because God has opened that door and I've seen a need to help out. I don't feel that's a huge gift of mine. I think I look at others as giving much more than I do. Think of the widow, you know, who gave two mites, but gave everything she had. I can't say that I've ever done that.
But it's so nice to be able just to have a relationship with God where you can feel Him leading and those feelings of peace about decisions that are being made and through taking advantage of opportunities when the door opens up. I've been blessed to be on a lot of boards where I can use my accounting and business experiences.
But the most rewarding experiences are through the hands-on. I think of our trip to New York with the Midwest Food Bank. I love being on that board. It's very interesting and very rewarding. [00:33:34]
But my biggest satisfaction comes... as you know, we take several trips every year to New York, but we do one at Thanksgiving. We're actually giving food to people that are going to be using it. And hearing their stories and hearing their testimonies and hearing the testimonies of the churches or the organizations that they're coming through and how they're providing. There's just nothing like the hands-on part.
So being on the board is fun. I love working with people, and I love trying to set policy and strategy. But the ultimate is when you're actually getting to be the hands and feet of Jesus. One lady in particular, her husband became bipolar and left soon after their baby was born. She didn't have a job. She was evicted then out of her apartment. But she came and got food in that line. We didn't realize the full impact that that had had. [00:34:37] She talked about that turkey, you know, it didn't just feed Thanksgiving, but Christmas and well into the next year.
Those are stories that when you hear about their life experiences and see the challenges some people face, it can just be hugely rewarding to be in a part of helping them out.
Laura Dugger: Which was so neat to hear you and Mom share her story specifically because she was one that you met years ago. And after she had been a recipient of that blessing, one of the next years she was there and she was the hands and feet serving this turkey dinner to people who had been in a tough season around this Thanksgiving season.
Bill Leman: Yeah, and she got right in the semi with us when we pulled up to hand those turkeys out. And I don't think anybody was ever any more joyful than her.
Laura Dugger: Well, let's also talk about some of the problems that you've encountered and how you have dealt with them. [00:35:39]
Bill Leman: There's a few things that come to mind. The older I get, the more I encounter challenges that help me understand how Moses must have felt when God asked him to do something that he just didn't feel qualified to do. There's situations that I'm asked to help with that when I first look at it, I think, "I can't do this. I'm not qualified. This needs to be done by someone with a different skill set than I have." And yet that door is opened. It just makes me realize how totally dependent I am on God to provide solutions.
We manage some low-income housing apartments, and it's the most management-intense property that we have. It just takes constant involvement. There's always issues. There's always situations that we need to work through. It's just much more difficult. And we can see what happens when people have not been raised with God in their life. And you know that that's the solution. You know that that's really the only way they're going to break that cycle and come out of it. [00:36:52]
We might realize that, but in this case, the city that these were located in came down hard on us because they felt that we were responsible for the actions of these residents. Usually it wasn't a resident, it was somebody that was on the property illegally. I remember staying awake nights thinking, "How are we going to fix this? I don't know how to fix this."
It's a lifelong event to really try to present the gospel to people and to show them how to break through this cycle. And it's not something that one or two or three people can do. I just had that overwhelming feeling of, this is bigger than me. That's a good example of that feeling.
Another one, when I became involved with Midwest Food Bank, one of the things we needed was volunteer drivers, including on this trip to New York. So I went ahead and agreed to get my CDL. A lot of people laugh when they think of me driving a semi. [00:38:01] But when we get out in New York and on some of those streets and in some of those locations, I am lost when it comes to backing up a semi. It takes a lot of experience, and it takes me a long time to do it. There's times when I think, "I can't get this. I don't get it." I can go forward just fine but backing into some spots really gives us some challenges.
Another one, we're developing a new outreach program for our church, and I've been asked to be on that committee. And it takes some creativity and some things that I just don't feel like I have. And so those are problem areas that are challenges that I truly sometimes just really don't know how to handle, and I have to just rely on God to try to show the way on those.
Usually, my problems arise from actions I've taken that weren't in harmony with God's teachings, and those are a little easier to fix. You know what you need to do to make things right and to get things changed. [00:39:11] There's definitely some things that I've done and comments that I've made that I wish I could have the chance for a do-over. But we don't get that chance.
This verse in the Bible has always really been important to me. It's comforting, but it's also just great advice, because you're going to find yourself in a situation where you need to listen to this at some point. We all are. And that's when Paul says, This one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
So there's times when, you know, you mess up and you have to get over it. You just have to get beyond it and you have to quit thinking about it.
Laura Dugger: One other thing that comes to my mind for your life, especially as I've become an adult, I realized the heaviness that would come with something that you faced when you were only 38 years old. Can you take us back to that day? [00:40:12]
Bill Leman: Yeah. Actually, it was on a Wednesday night and I remember I was getting ready for church. I had a classmate who was a fireman came to our house and came and told me, "Bill, you better get down to the hospital. Your dad was in a bad accident." And I just remember I was driving down Germantown Hill, and the sun was just setting right as I was coming down that hill, and the words to the song Safe in the Arms of Jesus just overwhelmed me.
I really think that was the moment that he passed away. But went on to the hospital and of course, I mentioned before we had ten siblings and so everybody was coming in. Mom worked, she was a nurse and actually was working out of town about a half hour the other way from Peoria. So she had about an hour drive. And I remember I had to call her and tell her about it. [00:41:12]
When you see somebody's life come to an abrupt end like that, it just reemphasizes again the importance of our actions in this life. And my dad loved Jesus, and there's no doubt in my mind that he's in heaven. I look forward to seeing him again.
Laura Dugger: I think as I've become a parent, just realizing, wow, when you were only 38 years old, when you're facing some of these other difficulties and challenges, a lot of us would still turn to one of our parents and be able to ask their advice. And I remember asking you, maybe 15 years after the accident, just, Dad, how often do you think about your dad? And you said, "Oh, every day."
Bill Leman: For a long time, it was just hard to get used to the idea that he wasn't there. I mean, you just expected to see him. And this was with a father, which is a close relationship. But I can't imagine how that is for somebody who loses a spouse at a young age or loses children. It must be just incredibly overwhelming to expect to see them and then have to have that realization again, oh yeah, they're gone. [00:42:38]
So, in every situation in life, there's people that have it worse and people that have it better. That's something always to keep in mind too, that there's always somebody that's got a lot tougher situation than what you're having to experience.
Laura Dugger: That's a good attitude to have. And I remember mom always saying, it doesn't matter what age you are when you lose a parent. And I think this would apply when you lose a loved one. It's difficult no matter how old you are when that happens. But it seems like not being able to go to your earthly father for these quick questions, you've really relied on your Heavenly Father. And then the exciting hope is that you know you're going to heaven because of what Jesus already did, and you accepted that. And so you get to be reunited someday.
Bill Leman: I remember my sister, Mary Beth, made that comment once soon after Dad passed away, that she was lamenting that she didn't have a father. She just felt that God spoke to her and said, I'm your father. [00:43:44]
Laura Dugger: So maybe somebody listening today, I hope that's an encouraging word. But because you and I love optimism, let's shift back to a more positive topic. What are the highlights about your life experiences?
Bill Leman: The most joyous experience has been from Jeanne and I being part of our children and grandchildren growing up and just getting to see that and getting to observe and just the joy that comes from grandkids as they make new experiences, and as they achieve new things, it's just a joy to have family.
I sometimes think about what have been the 10 best days of my life, and it's kind of an interesting exercise if you try to think about that sometime. If you have to put together the 10 best days of your life, what would they be? And I've thought about that in a number of them.
The day I was baptized would definitely be one of the top ten. Our wedding day. The day that each of my children, you and Natalie, and Drew, were each born, are days that I'll never forget. I'll always remember those days. [00:45:00] Other events that relate to personal achievements or events, or our family's achievements or events, I won't get into all those, but there are some real highlights there, too. But we also need to remember the small victories.
I sometimes jokingly refer to an experience in college as one of the 10 best days of my life. I mentioned what I lived on back then wasn't much and never had any money in my pocket, it didn't seem like. I would come home sometimes on the weekend, we lived 30 miles away from ISU, and on Sunday nights then I'd go back, and sometimes it was great fun because we were going to get together with friends back at school. And there were other times when pretty much nothing was going on and you knew you were heading back to an empty apartment on a Sunday night.
But I remember one time I was going back and I was kind of hungry. And as I pulled into Normal, I thought, I'm going to stop at this convenience store and get a couple of donuts. So I walked in, I had two quarters and two pennies in my pocket, and I looked at the prices and I saw the donuts are a quarter. [00:46:15] Illinois at that time had a 5% sales tax, so I knew that on 50 cents there'd be a 3-cent tax, so I was a penny short.
So I thought I'd just kind of try to charm my way into getting two donuts for 52 cents. I asked the gal behind the counter, I said, "I'd like to get two donuts, but I think it'll be 53 cents and I've only got 52 cents. I was pretty sure she was gonna say, "Oh, don't worry about that penny." But she didn't. She said, "Well, I guess you can only get one then." I thought, "Mm, okay, well, I guess that's that."
So I went ahead and said, "Okay, give me one," and she rang it up and the tax came out to one penny, and she said, "That'll be 26 cents." And right then it dawned on me, "Hey, I can get another one." So I told her, now I'll take another one. And she wasn't real friendly about it. She kind of grabbed the sack back and stuck the other donut in there. But that to me was one of life's little victories. [00:47:20] It's just fun to experience those. You have to cherish those and have to just appreciate those little victories in life is what I call those.
I think another great example that I'd like to mention and that's Jeanne's grandma kept a diary. And this, to me, again, just shows how the little things in life they can be one of your 10 best days. This was probably... oh, it was over 60 years ago. She lived on a farm soon after they got married, I believe, and they had just finished harvest. And that day, I don't know, they didn't have the combines. I think a lot of it was still done by hand.
She wrote in her diary, "We finished harvest today," It was late November, "and it's a beautiful sunny day with blue sky. It's a grand and glorious day." And I thought, "Mom and I have often said, this is just a grand and glorious day." [00:48:21] So sometimes just the little days and the little wins can mean so much.
Laura Dugger: And you've done a great job of always reminding us to celebrate those. I remember it was in my final year of grad school, there was one big exam at the end, But after that exam, there were still a few weeks of school left and some finals that came as well. And you called me after I took that exam and said, "All right, what are you doing with the rest of your Friday?" And I said, "Well, I'm going to go to the coffee shop and study for all my other ones." And you said, "No, no, no. You're going to call a couple of your friends and you're going to take them out for dinner." So I got to go out with a few friends that night and we celebrated. That's really been something that always stuck with me.
Bill Leman: If you look for things to be happy about, they're out there.
Laura Dugger: What advice would you give to me as your daughter and all of our listeners out there about the life ahead of us? [00:49:22]
Bill Leman: Well, if I was going to give us just some practical advice, I'd put it in maybe four or five bullet points here. Trust God. Expect the best. Keep plotting. Sometimes you have to just remember to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Finish strong. Stop and smell the roses. Keep an eternal perspective and remember that true joy and fulfillment comes from people, not things. That one I think I learned from you actually. I would give you credit for that relationship comment that true joy and fulfillment comes from people, not things.
You had more friends than I think anybody I've ever known. And you made it a point to be involved in their lives. I just think that's a great attribute that you have and I've added it onto my list of things that I'd recommend.
Laura Dugger: Well, thank you, Dad. Well, everybody knows that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" means practical knowledge. And we would love to hear some insight from your life to inspire us with our own action item. So as the final question today, Dad, what is your savvy sauce? [00:50:37]
Bill Leman: I would say, as we talked about, sometimes you get situations where they're bigger than you and they can be overwhelming a little bit. When you find yourself in that situation, mentally go to the cross of Jesus with that problem and lay it down and say, you know what, this is too big for me. I'm just going to give this to you and walk away from it. As you get reminded of it again and again, just remember, you know what, I gave that one to Jesus.
Laura Dugger: I can't think of a better way to end. I'm so grateful that you took the time to meet with me today, Dad. It's something that I've always appreciated about you. You are available. As a little girl, you were available to teach me how to play basketball and to read scripture at our family dinners. And now as an adult, you continue to be available as my friend, my mentor, and a leader I respect and admire. I love you, Dad.
Bill Leman: I love you, Laura. [00:51:45]
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:52:51]
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:53:53]
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Monday Nov 12, 2018
Monday Nov 12, 2018
26. Practical Tips for Eating Dinner Together as a Family with Blogger and Cookbook Co-Author, Rachel Tiemeyer
**Transcription Below**
Psalm 34:8 (a) NIV “Taste and see that the LORD is good;”
Rachel Tiemeyer is one of the two moms behind the blog Thriving Home and a new cookbook titled From Freezer to Table: 75+ Recipes for Gathering, Cooking, and Sharing. She and her friend, Polly Conner, started their site in 2012 as a way to encourage other moms by sharing tips, stories, and healthy recipes from their own homes. After freezer cooking for their families for nearly a decade, they now jokingly refer to themselves as “freezer meal evangelists”. Their blog is a top-ranking site for healthy freezer meal resources, and they are currently writing their second cookbook that will focus on slow cooker and Instant Pot freezer meal recipes. Rachel and her husband have three elementary-aged children and live in Columbia, Missouri.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: I want to say thank you to Leman Property Management for being such a loyal sponsor of The Savvy Sauce. They're located in Central Illinois and with over 1,600 apartment homes in all price ranges, they have listings throughout Morton, Pekin, Peoria, Washington, and Canton. They can find the perfect spot for you.
Check them out today at MidwestShelters.com or like them on Facebook by searching Leman, L-E-M-A-N, Property Management Company. We'll make sure and put a link in our show notes. Thanks again for the sponsorship.
Today we get to hear from Rachel Tiemeyer, who is one of the two moms behind the blog Thriving Home and co-author of the cookbook titled From Freezer to Table. Their blog is a top-ranking site for healthy freezer meal resources, and they are currently writing their second cookbook that will focus on slow cooker and instant pot freezer meal recipes. [00:01:18]
Today, we will discuss nutrition, practical steps to help mealtime become less hectic and more enjoyable, and we will learn more about her passion to provide nourishment to others. As a satisfied owner of their first cookbook, it's an honor for me to get to welcome Rachel Tiemeyer to The Savvy Sauce today.
Hi, Rachel.
Rachel Tiemeyer: Hey, Laura. Thanks for having me on your show.
Laura Dugger: Absolutely. So excited you're here. And let's just start by hearing a little bit more about you. Can you share a snapshot of your life?
Rachel Tiemeyer: Sure. I'd be glad to. I'm married to a guy named Nathan. He's a pastor at our church here in Columbia, Missouri and we've got three kiddos. They're all in elementary school now. I've got a fifth-grade son, a third-grade daughter, and a first-grade son. They are pretty fun. I love this parenting stage. They're all really close in age. They're all two years apart or closer.
So those little years were pretty intense. I stayed home with them and kind of worked part-time while they were at home, and I loved that stage. But boy, having them all in school and being able to participate and coaching their sports and being involved at school is one of my favorite things so far. [00:02:32]
Laura Dugger: You and Polly Connor started your blog, Thriving Home, years ago. So can you take us back? Because it sounds like that coincided with the time that you had those little kids at home.
Rachel Tiemeyer: Yeah, it did. We both started personal blogs back in 2008. So it was kind of the beginning of the blog era, kind of jumped in. And we had two separate, very different blogs. So mine was more about healthy living and cooking and sharing a bit about some things I was learning about a disease my son had which I can talk more about in a few minutes and her blog was more focused on creative endeavors. She's definitely the queen of sewing and makeovers in her home and things like that. And so pretty different, but we both had a similar goal, and that was to encourage moms.
So we both had these blogs from 2008 to 2011. We had already become friends, and that's a whole other story. We began swapping guest posts on each other's blogs. So that was kind of like this new concept. We were like, Whoa, look, we can share traffic with one another. [00:03:40]
So that was kind of how our interest in blogging began. Then in 2011, Polly became a stay-at-home mom. I was already home with my kids, actually working part-time for my church. So my background is when I graduated from college, I took a job right away with a new church. It was a church plant in Columbia, Missouri. It's called The Crossing, if anybody ends up in Columbia, Missouri, and wants to check it out.
But I worked full-time there for seven years as our director of children's ministry and then co-director of student ministries. So at that time, our church was fairly small and I could kind of wear both hats. But then when I had my first kiddo, I stepped back to work just part-time doing some children's ministry. And we always joke that Polly took my job. That's kind of how we met.
So she took over the student ministry side of things, and we really grew in our friendship during that time. And that's when we started dreaming together. We're both just kind of natural entrepreneurs, go-getters, we love to work hard, we're creative, and we really enjoy our friendship together. [00:04:45] And so we began dreaming, what would it look like to start a business together?
And when she had her first kid and she stayed home, and worked part-time for the church, we were like, Oh my gosh, what if we blended our two blogs and we started one blog that really just helped moms thrive at home or equipped them to thrive at home? And we kind of shared our journey of the things we were learning in our own homes. What if we did that on one blog and we really had earning income in mind as well? So, that's how Thriving Home began. We launched it in January of 2012, and that was the beginning of over-six-year journey so far.
Laura Dugger: Have you learned any tips, maybe things that you could share for ways to work well with a partner?
Rachel Tiemeyer: That's a great question. We get asked that a lot. The best way to describe going into business with someone else, I would say, is it's almost like a second marriage, which sounds weird. But if you think about it, there's so much trust involved. You're making big decisions together. You're sharing finances, which can really get sticky over time if you don't set up some expectations from the beginning. And if you don't talk very just honestly with one another regularly, those kinds of things can be hard. [00:06:05]
So I'm thankful that Polly... I always say that she's such a great friend and business partner in the sense that anytime we've had something that feels off, like feels, oh gosh, my feelings are hurt or I'm a little frustrated by something, I mean, she just calls me up and we're able to talk about it quickly.
We always say one of our big goals in our partnership is to keep short accounts. So that means we don't let things fester. We talk about them quickly. And along with that, we try to believe the best in one another. You know, we really are trying to communicate constantly to each other, kind of like I am in my marriage too, but that we're on the same team. We try to talk to one another that way and remember that we're for each other.
Laura Dugger: I love that. You're even using biblical principles to apply it to the relationship.
Rachel Tiemeyer: I'm really encouraged by it. One of my favorite things in life is being able to work with a friend on a creative endeavor that, oh, by the way, it's kind of a side hustle that earns some income for our family too. [00:07:09]
Laura Dugger: Yes, a way to serve them. Some of the listeners today may be in your same boat from when you started. Maybe they have little kids at home and they're starting something up right now. What did that look like for you to juggle having three kids at home working with a partner?
Rachel Tiemeyer: Right. First of all, if anyone out there is thinking about starting a blog as a business or something along those lines, I mean, I would think even podcasting kind of falls in this, so you can probably relate, Laura, but that is not a quick way to make money. So we always say that, you know, first and foremost, blogging is not a get-rich-quick kind of business. And probably my guess is most businesses aren't that.
So what we've learned is that plugging away consistently, persistently, being faithful to show up every week and provide good content and serve our audience and grow and learn. And we've had to pivot. You know, things are always changing in the blogging world. [00:08:06] By doing that, here we are over six years later, and we've grown this business quite a bit while also keeping our families first, our friendship first, God first, all those things. That's always been our goal.
But we started when the stakes were really low and our dreams were really big, but time was so slim at that time, right? Because here we are. Our first goal was to be good moms, to take care of our kids, to really make our homes a thriving home. And we sometimes joke that really it was more kind of like a surviving home but... you know those days, right? Well, actually it's like at some point during most days when you have kids at home, you're just like, I've got to survive.
But over time, as we kept plugging away, and I'm talking about like working during naptime, working in the evenings, grabbing a little time on the weekends for those first two years. And then as the business began to pick up... and guys, we didn't make a profit for a year and a half, okay? [00:09:09] So yes, we built it to be a business and earn income but we didn't pay ourselves our first paycheck... And put paycheck in quotes, please, because it was nothing to write home about.
But we were so proud and so motivated to see that we felt like we were using our God-given gifts and talents to help others and being able to be creative and being able to still serve our families and make them number one. That was beginning to kind of pay off. So it's been a journey. It is a hard balancing act, right, to keep your kids and your family and your marriage and God first, I would think in any job. But we have to keep going back to that and saying that is what's most important. Then our goal is to make Thriving Home hopefully a thriving business.
Laura Dugger: I love that. Well, it's exciting for us all to hear the backstory for how your blog began. But now let's move on to the journey from posting your first Thriving Home post to publishing a cookbook. Did that go as you expected? [00:10:15]
Rachel Tiemeyer: All right, so when we got into this, we had no idea what to expect. The stakes were low. I think from day one, we've always said, we're going to hold this loosely. We don't know what God's plans are for it, but we're also going to work really hard at it.
Both of us are super passionate about what we do. We love it. Like we wake up on the mornings that... like Polly gets a sitter a couple of days a week to work now. My kids are all in school. But on those days that we have designated to work on the blog, we both wake up and we're so excited to do what we do.
So the journey was we began posting blog posts and learning social media and those kind of things the first few years. And over time, what began to happen was Google started to pick up some of our posts. And some of our most popular ones happened to be about freezer cooking and our healthy freezer meal recipes. [00:11:14]
So at the time when I had my first kid, I had a dear friend of mine named Darcy, who also happens to be one of the smartest, most resourceful moms I know. She said, "Hey, what if we started a freezer club?" This was in 2011. This was pre-Pinterest. No one had any resources about freezer cooking online. It was just barely a new term. She had this idea and we got together and we're all like, "Okay, we're in. What's a freezer club?"
She explained and said, Okay, we're going to cook in bulk for each other's families every month and then swap meals and freeze them until we're ready to use them. We began doing that with very little knowledge. A lot of it was trial and error and figuring out what worked to freeze and what didn't.
And about that time too, it's interesting, there were six of us in this group, and again, all friends, and we all began this journey, maybe it's because we had little kids at home, some of us had some health issues, this journey of trying to cook from scratch and use whole food ingredients for the most part. [00:12:21] And that was really fun. I learned how to cook during that time. I really learned the tenets of freezer cooking. We stayed together for seven years cooking for each other's families.
So all of that is to say, I began to write about that on the blog, and soon thereafter, Polly jumped on board, she started doing freezer cooking. She was at home while her husband was in seminary taking night classes, and so she would prep some meals ahead and throw them in the freezer and have them handy for nights that he was gone, things like that.
So we began writing about freezer cooking, and within a few years, our blog rose to the top as one. If you Google healthy freezer meals, we're like one of the top hits. About three years into our blogging, we started getting calls from publishers or emails and saying, "Would you guys want to write a freezer meal cookbook?"
At about the same time, we also had readers start to email us and say, "Gosh, we really would love to have a cookbook. Your recipes are made with real food mostly, and they are kid-friendly. It's hard to find things like that." [00:13:24]
So we hadn't honestly really thought about making a traditional cookbook through traditional publishing. We had toyed with the idea of creating an eBook that way, but we didn't get very far on that. It's a huge undertaking. We were just trying to balance kids and keeping up with the blog and that kind of thing.
But after getting a few different calls from publishers, we thought, "Well, we should at least investigate this," right? So a good friend of ours, Kelly Smith from The Nourishing Home—she's a blogger as well—she told us about her cookbook journey. And she said, "It's really, really hard. It took a year of my life, but I'm so glad I did it. And if you guys are considering it, you need to get a literary agent."
And at that time, we were like, "Oh, okay, what's a literary agent?" But she pointed us in the direction of this incredible gal, her name's Maria. And Maria helped us put together a book proposal and then get it out to all the major publishers. [00:14:23]
During that time, we got five interested big-name publishers. Actually, they ended up giving us multiple offers that kind of bid against each other. So here we are like, "I cannot believe this. We just got a cookbook deal from the publisher we wanted." And that's when it began, the cookbook experience.
Laura Dugger: It's so great to hear that you were faithful in all these small steps and it just continued to grow. So, what encouragement do you have for others who are being obedient to a call that God has on their life, but maybe they're in a different phase right now than you are? They aren't seeing the fruit yet.
Rachel Tiemeyer: I love that you say they're not seeing the fruit yet. I think that's the thing, when I think back to our blogging journey, to even my time in full-time and part-time ministry, and even as a parent, which I think is the most important job that moms are called to right now, especially when you've got little ones at home, is this idea that it's a slow and steady journey. It's a journey of learning. You fail, but you get back up and you keep going. [00:15:28]
And over time, at least for us, you know, you do begin to see some of those seeds grow and some of the fruit of those things. But it really does take time. Even thinking about parenting back to that, those little years, oh my goodness. I just felt like I... Sometimes I was spinning my wheels. You know, I'd be at home all day and here I am changing diapers and making more food, and cleaning up the kitchen for the third time that day. Our house was a disaster by the end of every day.
It was easy to get discouraged in that but here I am now. I've got a fifth grader. He's going to middle school next year. And I feel like God gives us little glimpses of the fruit of that time in my life where I was able to be close with my kids and spend time with them and really talk to them about faith throughout the day and get to teach them things at home. [00:16:29]
And here we are now, and I'm starting to see the fruit of that as a parent. Now, I don't know his story, my son's story fully but I think that's the same thing for our blogging. What you said is it's a slow and steady, keep plugging away, work hard, and maybe don't expect to see fruit right away.
Laura Dugger: Thanks for sharing that. Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.
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Laura Dugger: Has nutrition always been a focus for you both maybe when you were growing up and in your own current family?
Rachel Tiemeyer: I grew up in a family... I'm the oldest of four and my Mom worked part-time. Of course, my Dad worked and so we were a busy family. We're involved in a lot of sports and that kind of thing. We didn't really care that much about nutrition growing up.
I remember often having pop tarts and sugary cereal before and after school. You know, every kid's dream. But my Mom, to her credit, she was a great cook and she cooked from scratch and it was a high priority to get dinner on the table every night. So I do have that memory of sitting together with my family. And we weren't always great about sitting and talking and being intentional with talking and that kind of thing. That just wasn't kind of how we were. [00:18:39] But we did sit down and that was a priority. And I think that really helped ingrain that in me.
Kind of a side note on the nutrition part of my life. When I got to college, I didn't have many tracks to run on in terms of how to eat. So like a lot of freshmen, I started to gain weight. I chose to eat junk all the time and then began to actually have a pretty unhealthy relationship with food. So in my 20s, I would binge eat. I mean, at the time I was just like, "This is so embarrassing. Why am I doing this?" You know, kind of secretively overeating, but I really cared about how I looked and about exercise and that kind of thing.
So what began was I would binge eat. And then I would try to over-exercise or under-eat to kind of work it off. And I sort of was able to maintain my weight because of that unhealthy, you know, struggle going on. But during college, I developed IBS and, you know, just always kind of had an upset tummy. And most of all, I was pretty upset about my relationship with food. I just couldn't figure it out. [00:19:49]
Then I got married right out of college to a great guy. He was in seminary at the time. I really continued that struggle with disordered eating in my 20s, even while I was in full-time ministry and growing a ton in my faith. I had very supportive, godly friends, my husband, they prayed with me. I was able to talk to my friends about this. They were helping me apply truth in this area.
But then when I was about 27, I got pregnant with our first child and sort of a strange thing happened. I was super sick that first trimester, and I didn't want to eat anything practically. I don't know if that sort of broke the pattern for me, but for whatever reason, another thing happened too was my desire to care for about how I looked and my desire for getting what I wanted when I wanted it, which was a lot of times food, those desires changed significantly. And I began to care more about the little person growing inside of me and treating my body the right way. [00:20:56]
All that to say is I'm really, really thankful that God changed that in my life. I've had women ask me many times over the years, like, how did you get past that? Because I know a lot of women really do struggle with that. And I still marvel at how God changed my desires and helped me with that.
But anyway, that sent me down a path of kind of having more moderation and a better relationship with food. But then fast forward a year or so, and my firstborn son, he was a toddler at that point, and he began to get really sick. So at about 15 months old, he was losing weight. He wasn't eating. He actually began limping. He was already walking, but he went back to crawling. Maybe most noticeable was the fact that he had chronic diarrhea with blood in it. I mean, it was alarming. It was awful. It came on quickly.
So over the course of about three years, we struggled to find a doctor who would help us... Sorry, not three years, three months. We struggled to find a doctor who could help us with the diagnosis. But we eventually found out when he was 18 months old that he had Crohn's disease. [00:22:07] We had never heard of it. It doesn't run in our family, although it is a genetic predisposition for it.
Crohn's disease is part of a larger umbrella called inflammatory bowel disease that's different than IBS, irritable bowel syndrome. But it's an autoimmune disease where your autoimmune system attacks your digestive system, and it can be really debilitating. It is a lifelong struggle for people, lifelong disease. There's no cure for it.
However, there's a lot of great drugs now that we thankfully have benefited from. So my son actually has done really well. He really struggled as a toddler, but as soon as we got him on the right medication, I mean, I'm so thankful to God for this, but here he is. He's 11 years old now and he has done fantastic. I mean, he's one of the tallest kids in his class. The only reason I say that is because a lot of these kids don't grow correctly. And he plays sports. He has a completely normal life. He just has to... we go and get an infusion of this medication every six weeks. [00:23:11] But other than that, you would never know.
So, super thankful for that. But all of that is to say, that sent me as a mom down this path of figuring out, Okay, why did this happen to us? Is there anything in our environment that could have caused it? Is there anything in our environment that needs to change to help him stay as healthy as possible? And that's where I started doing tons of research about food and how our food is connected to our health and our body and that kind of thing.
One of the big convictions I had during that time was just that eating the processed food, fast food, or even the things we pick up in the store, canned foods, things like that, I started reading labels and I was going, what are these things in our food? You know, the farther you get down that path, the more you realize, wow, it's crazy the things that our culture... that we eat and our food system and that kind of thing.
So I started down that path and became convinced that I needed to feed our family a lot more vegetables, whole grains. [00:24:16] I switched to kind of organic milk and local or organic meat at the time. But just trying mainly to cook from scratch at home. That was, I guess, sort of my way. Not that I could ever control Jack's disease in any way, but that was my way of sort of saying, okay, I have some measure of control in our home of trying to provide some healthy food for them. And like I said, at that time I joined that freezer club, and what was cool is all these other families were on board with us, and we were able to cook for each other that way.
So that's my long story of where I've come in nutrition. And at this point in my life with our family, you know, I just try to do my best still to cook from scratch. I try to sort of keep it all in moderation because the last thing I want is for my kids to struggle and have an unhealthy relationship with food too.
Laura Dugger: That's an incredible story and I'm so glad you shared it. God is the ultimate healer and yet He works differently in everyone's life. So, if you're listening today and this is not your story because you have asked Him to remove this and you don't feel freed from disordered eating, perhaps He has a different journey for you. [00:25:24] I would love to suggest meeting with a licensed Christian counselor, especially one who specializes in this area. God may desire to use a person in your life as a catalyst to healing.
Cooking from scratch with your cookbook, it's not like it's these long drawn out recipes that take all day. It's easier than somebody listening might expect.
Rachel Tiemeyer: That's one of our goals. We want to help moms because, I mean, I get it. It's hard to have time to cook. And that's really why I'm so excited about freezer cooking is you can fit it in when you can fit it in and then freeze it and have it on hand for that five o'clock witching hour.
But also our desire is to create recipes that kids will actually like for the most part, you know, and that aren't too complicated. All of our recipes have recognizable ingredients in them, or at least we strive for that.
Laura Dugger: It definitely comes through. I just love hearing your passion about all of this. Thanks for sharing about your son and your history with disordered eating and how all of this plays a part. But looking at bigger picture, why are you passionate to provide practical ways to nourish people?
Rachel Tiemeyer: I began to understand our relationship with food. It is a physical one. You know, it is important to be eating the right kinds of things. I tell my kids, if you put the wrong kind of gas in your tank of your car, your car's not going to run very long or very far or very efficiently. [00:26:53] Well, the same is true with food. So, I want to be feeding my family the right kinds of things that we're kind of built for.
But I also think there's sort of a spiritual component to it in the sense that God's given us our bodies to take care of. We glorify Him through the way we treat our bodies. Also, I try to tell my kids this too, but food is a gift from God and it is something to be enjoyed. You'll see on our blog Thriving Home and in our cookbook, we're not trying to have the lowest fat meals or even cut out all sugar and things like that. But I really believe in moderation. And that's what you can sustain over the long haul.
I'm excited to help other families sort of learn that and have that vision because I think that's where we can enjoy food and also benefit from the health benefits of eating right. But secondarily, cooking and providing food for my family is absolutely one of the favorite things I get to do in my home. Laundry would be at the very bottom of the list. And I know for some people, cooking is at the very bottom of the list.
But to me, it's much more exciting to put a fun meal on the table and my kids and my husband get excited about it. Now, mind you, there's always one person in the family who like turns up their nose at it, right? Especially when they're little, you have no idea. [00:28:20] Like one day you'll put spaghetti in front of them and they're excited and the next day they won't touch it, right?
But I love that time of sitting together at the table. And it has to start early, I think. Even though it's hard, it's hard to get everybody at the table, a two-year-old and a seven-year-old and a mom and a dad. That's hard to get everybody to the table, but our families always try to make that a priority as much as we can, imperfectly. It's messy.
But now, my kids, like I said, they're a little older, that's a time that we get it. We get that we need to sit down. It's a time to pray together, to look each other in the eye, to talk about maybe one significant thing before everybody's ready to get up. But I'm excited to see more and more the fruit of sitting down over a meal together, even as they get into their teen years.[00:29:13]
Laura Dugger: I love this practical part. So do you have any other reasons why, for you personally, mealtime is so important as a family?
Rachel Tiemeyer: I've done a lot of reading about this over the years. I think there's just so many stats. There's been a lot of studies on families who eat together. And sort of across the board, what these studies have shown is that children who are in families where they eat together about three times or more a week, around the table, I mean, maybe it's breakfast, maybe it's dinner, but these kids do better in almost every way—socially, academically, physically, and emotionally.
And I would almost argue spiritually too, because it's that time. Like I said, it's a ritual for us. We pray before we eat. Sometimes we end up having sort of these organic spiritual conversations. Polly and I, just developed some what's called table talk discussion cards that we sell in the store on our blog. They're just like a printable that have discussion questions on them for various ages. [00:30:15] So we created them for all different ages. But it's just a fun way to connect with your kids. I think that's really important for families.
Laura Dugger: We will definitely link to those in the show notes. For anybody listening, if you're driving right now or you can't write it down, don't worry, we'll link to the blog and to the cookbook, and that new resource. How can we involve our kids in this endeavor to eat healthy and to teach them to prepare meals alongside us?
Rachel Tiemeyer: Well, this is an area that I feel like I'm on the journey right alongside a lot of other moms, right? It can be a challenge to figure out the best way to teach our kids this kind of thing. But I think for me personally, I tend to want to teach all of it at once.
I think because my son has a disease that really affects his health, I can kind of be overvigilant about it. So one of the things I don't want to do is I don't want to be too strict with my kids. So what I'm trying to do and from what I've read that helps people have a healthy relationship with food is I want to be a good example myself. [00:31:21] I want to provide healthy, well-balanced meals for them and snacks. I want to offer those kind of things.
You know, I do want to encourage them to make moderate choices, but I'm trying not to freak out. You know, you'll notice this as your kids get older they just want to have more autonomy over the food they select. Like my son went on a field trip yesterday and they got to go to this college campus and he chose to have like Taco Bell and buy a giant soda and get candy and all the other kids were doing it, too.
He didn't want to tell me about it at first. He's a truth teller, so eventually he told me. But I was like, "Hey, dude, that's okay. You know, sometimes there's times to just have fun and do that." I said, "But I hope as you get older, you begin to learn that, you know, we do those things in moderation and we try to do it in a way that glorifies God."
So those are the kinds of conversations I'm trying to have with my kids. I'm not saying I'm doing it perfectly. But my goal is that as they grow, I hope they enjoy the gift of food and make wise choices, obviously, that will help their health. [00:32:29]
One of the other ways I think is really great is just to get your kids in the kitchen with you. Especially the younger they are, if you can start that, give them little jobs to do. I mean, I even taught my kids how to use a knife when they were five. I know that's not for everyone or every kid. Some of my kids are more focused and listen to me better than others.
Give them some responsibility, like real responsibility. I mean, my kids used to chop salad for me, and they'd make the little salads that I taught them how to make, a vinaigrette, and they were so proud of themselves that they could make a vinaigrette.
Laura Dugger: That's really neat to hear, even at this specific age five, because I think our kids are capable of so much more than sometimes we're willing to take the time to train them on.
Rachel Tiemeyer: Yeah, I think so too.
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Well, would you mind explaining a freezer club and a freezer party for anyone who's not familiar with those two terms?
Rachel Tiemeyer: All right, so let me backup a second. Some people might not be familiar with freezer cooking. So this concept, all it is is you're preparing a meal. So think of it as meal prep. You're not fully, typically not fully cooking something and freezing it. But the way we think of it is you've prepped a meal up until the point that it needs to be cooked, and you throw it in your freezer.
It does take knowing what kinds of things freeze well and how to freeze and thaw them well for it to turn out right. I think a lot of times the people we talk to when we give seminars and things like that, a lot of people are like, okay, I'm gonna be honest. I think of freezer meals as kind of beige and boring and mushy. [00:34:46] And we say, uh-uh, we really, really believe and we know from experience, like I've been doing this for over 10 years, that a freezer meal can taste just as a fresh meal if you do it right.
So all I have to say is our cookbook walks you through all of that. And we've got a lot of resources on our blog as well, thrivinghome.com, that will help people with that. But one of the things that's made freezer cooking doable for our homes is this concept of either throwing a freezer party or being in a freezer club.
So let me walk you through the differences. A freezer party, there's a few ways you can do it, but this would be a great first step into freezer cooking, kind of the toe in the baby pool. So it's a one-time event where you get friends together. We usually recommend like six people is a good number if you have a kitchen that can hold that many because then you'll go home with six different recipes. [00:35:43]
So you invite friends, you assign everybody a recipe. We've actually got menu plans in our cookbook. We've identified the recipes that work best for this kind of thing. And then you'll come together and everybody brings their ingredients for their recipe. And the person hosting tries to provide most of the utensils and that kind of thing in their kitchen.
Then the way we do it is we divide up into teams of two, and you and a friend plug away at prepping, mostly prepping. There's not a ton of cooking usually. Sometimes you might have to brown some meat or something, but we try to select recipes that's more like just putting food together in freezer bags or freezer containers.
So, with a friend at one of your stations, you would put together two meals for everybody at the party. So, everybody's doing that over the course of the evening. Usually, it takes two to three hours to do it. We like to provide food and fun drinks and music and that kind of thing. [00:36:44] So, you're just hanging out, you're cooking, you're prepping food for each other, and at the end of the night, it's totally like Christmas because you go home and stock your freezer with all these great meals. That would be the freezer party.
Now, the Freezer Club is an ongoing thing. The way ours worked, and Polly's in one right now, and I can kind of talk to you a little bit about how they've made some adjustments for their group. We would meet every four or five weeks. There were six of us that got together. Sometimes we actually had more people in it than that. But we get together every five weeks or so at someone's house and we would plan a menu for the following week.
So everybody came prepared with a few recipes that they were excited to make. Now, we always say before you start a freezer club, you want to set expectations. You want to make sure everybody's on the same page with sort of their food values. You know, if you have people that have severe allergies, that's going to be hard. If you yourself have an allergy, it's really great to like, you know, link arms with people who have similar needs for their family. [00:37:49]
But all that to say you get together... And this was really like one of my favorite times of the month because I got to hang out with my friends, I got to talk about food, got to plan a menu for my family for the following month. And then after you plan your menu, we would swap meals from the previous month.
I know that might sound confusing, but let me explain. So, you would plan your menu, and then during the course of that next month before you met again, you would prepare the meal that you were assigned to make for everyone. So, on your own time, you make a big batch of, you know, whatever it is, cheddar chive burgers. That's a recipe from our cookbook. That's pretty easy. You'd freeze a batch for every family. When you got back together the next time, you swap meals.
So this is how we ate. This is how I fed my family for a good seven years and it was awesome. I have a few favorite things about it. But one was that it saved me time because when you're cooking in bulk you're cutting down on trips to the store. If you're browning one pound of beef, why not brown a few pounds? It's just kind of like why not do the cleanup for all of it at once? So it saves you time. It does save you money because you're buying in bulk and because you pull it out and you eat that at home instead of going out to eat. [00:39:06]
Then a couple of other things that surprised me. One is I really grew as a cook. So making all these different kinds of recipes really forced my hand to try different things. Along with that, you know, people always go, well, did you like all the recipes that people made? Well, no, not always, but it forced us to try new things and it forced my kids to try new things. And a lot of times they were more willing to try something that Ms. Darcy had made versus what Mom had made, you know? So that was really a fun benefit that I hadn't expected, was it expanded our palate.
Laura Dugger: Well, and these ideas are genius for so many reasons. It's brilliant that it's a way to have community, to enjoy your time with your friends, to have something to look forward to. Like you mentioned, you get to save time, money, and calories. If somebody wants to start one today, what's just the first step a listener can take?
Rachel Tiemeyer: Okay, if they want to start a freezer club, I would get our cookbook and read the chapter. [00:40:11] But really, I would say it's finding friends that you line up with in terms of your vision for what kind of food you want to have, how often you want to meet, that kind of thing. Because you got to be on the same page. That's a big thing that we learned in our group is that if everybody's not on the same page and also things like you got to think about all of us have kind of a different food budget as well.
So you want to make sure you kind of set some guidelines for things like that. You know, think about... I think in our group we used to say, and this was years ago, so I don't know if this would still apply, but we wanted to spend about $8 to $10 per meal per family. And sometimes it would be less. Now remember, we were trying to buy organic ingredients and things like that, so it could be a lot less if you were not investing in those kind of ingredients. But set sort of a range maybe of what you want to spend.
Some groups also, when it comes to finances, will say, everybody bring your receipts, let's tally them up, let's figure out the difference, and let's make it the same. In my opinion, that gets very tedious, very fast, and is not really worth it, because over the years, I felt like it worked out. [00:41:24] You know, if I made an expensive meal one round, I knew, okay, time to make a vegetarian soup the next round and save a little money. So overall, everybody tried to kind of Police themselves and that kind of thing.
So just getting on the same page. I would say find the people who can be on the same page with you. And we run through the kind of questions you want to ask to set up your group in our cookbook.
Laura Dugger: Which I love those pages in your cookbook. It just empowers any reader to be able to know what their action step is. As we conclude today, our podcast is called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. "Savvy" means practical knowledge or discernment. What is your savvy sauce?
Rachel Tiemeyer: I love that question. I have two short ones. I love exercise. I'm a big believer in exercise. I don't mean just like going to a row-based class or hitting the gym or whatever, but I've noticed over the years that it really changes my day if I move. And especially when I was at home with little kids, I noticed if we could get outside and do some kind of exercise, and not just for me, for the kids too, it changed our attitudes. [00:42:34] And for me personally, it helps me sleep better and feel better and all those things. As I get a little bit older, I have fewer aches and pains when I work out.
So my savvy sauce is, over the years, I've tried to just do something to move every day. And I always try to tell myself something is better than nothing. So, it might be just simply... You're going to laugh. I'm so practical. But I'm like, if I can fold laundry and walk in place and get exercise at the same time, I mean, I would do that in the middle of winter or walking up and down the steps while I talk on the phone or riding bikes with my kids around the neighborhood, that kind of thing. So, I would say try to move every day in some way. And especially if you can get outside, that's a bonus.
My second thing that I've learned over the years is when you're making dinner already at night, why not double your recipe, especially if it's a freezable recipe, which like I said, all of them in our cookbook are, and then freeze one for later. [00:43:34]
Polly and I both do that. We've been doing that for years and it's awesome because over time you kind of stock up your freezer and you have a meal to pull out when you need it most.
Laura Dugger: Those are so good. Rachel, you are so kind and gracious. It's been a pleasure talking with you. Your blog and first cookbook continue to be a hit, and I'm sure the next one will be great, too. So I've really enjoyed our conversation. Thanks again for joining us.
Rachel Tiemeyer: Me too. Anytime. Thanks, Laura.
Laura Dugger: Guess what? It's giveaway time again. If you head over to our website, thesavvysauce.com, you can click on our "Giveaways" tab and there you'll find instructions for how to enter for your chance to win Polly Connor and Rachel Tiemeyer's book, From Freezer to Table Cookbook. Thanks for participating.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him. [00:44:42]
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [00:45:44]
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. [00:46:43]
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Monday Nov 05, 2018
Monday Nov 05, 2018
25. Leadership Principles and Practices with Former NFL Player, J Leman
**Transcription Below**
Matthew 6:33 (NIV) “But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.”
J Leman is a former American football linebacker. He played college football at the University of Illinois, and was recognized as a consensus All-American. He was signed by the Minnesota Vikings as an undrafted free agent in 2008, and has also been a member of the Oakland Raiders, Carolina Panthers, Philadelphia Eagles, and San Diego Chargers. He is currently a football analyst for the Big Ten Network, in addition to other entrepreneurial endeavors. He is married to Katy and they have three children.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Connect with J on all the social platforms: @jleman47
The Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod
The Complete Guide to Buying and Selling Apartments
The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Leman Property Management Company
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: Today's episode is brought to you by one of my favorite brands in Central Illinois, Leman Property Management. With over 1,600 apartment homes in all price ranges throughout Morton, Pekin, Peoria, Washington, and Canton, they can find the perfect spot for you.
Check them out at MidwestShelters.com or like them on Facebook by searching Leman, L-E-M-A-N, Property Management Company. Thanks for sponsoring today's episode.
Our guest today is J Leman. J is married to Katy and they are raising three small children. J is a former NFL football player and currently he's an analyst for the Big Ten Network. This is in addition to other entrepreneurial endeavors. He's going to share leadership principles and practices with us. Here's our chat.
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, J.
J Leman: Hey, thanks for having me. What a pleasure to be on The Savvy Sauce. I gotta tell you. I love the title. I think it's very original and I love that it kind of has... Like "savvy" is not feminine, but I think when you have sauce as a little bit of a feminine twang to it and I'm a guy and I'm gonna be on this, I think it's cool
Laura Dugger: Well, we are very honored to have you today. For those listening who aren't aware of this fun fact, J and I are actually second cousins, but we didn't meet until we were both in college. From the first time we hung out, J, it was just obvious that you have a sincere joy in the Lord. So can you start by telling us a little bit more about your upbringing and where your faith began?
J Leman: For sure. My parents are kind of, you know, I was born and raised in the area between Bloomington and Peoria, Illinois, and faith is a very strong part of their lives. They went to the University of Illinois. Long story short, they kind of turned away from God. [00:02:23]
My dad had pretty much committed: I never want to be a Christian, I never want to work on a farm, and I definitely don't want to ever be a pastor. The funny thing is, they ended up getting married, and they were unable to actually have children for seven years.
It was in that time, in their desperation, they actually returned to their faith, their childhood, asked Jesus Christ to come into their life, and gave their life over to Him. Then they started reading the Bible that Jesus actually still does miracles. And so they started to pray for a miracle that my mom could have kids. She was told by a couple of hospitals she couldn't have kids.
They started praying and praying, and miraculously, my mother was able to get pregnant after she had been diagnosed that she would be barren the rest of her life. Because they were so blown away that she was healed, they ended up starting a church with my aunt and uncle and them, so four people.
That started in 1977. They started meeting, they grew the church from 1977 to now to about 3,000 people. [00:03:28] It's the Vineyard Church in Champaign-Urbana, Illinois. She ended up having four more kids, so I was the fourth kid out of five, four boys and a girl.
We just grew up in a home where our family motto was, Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all things will be added to you. That's Matthew 6:3. So we grew up in that and, you know, very important part of our life. It's not something that we do lip service for. It's something that we really live out because we believe that, you know, we're a miracle family because none of us kids were actually supposed to be born, but God had different plans. I think that carried us... The way we were brought up, all in the faith, has really carried us on, and we've all continued in the faith as well.
So my story really begins back in Champaign, Illinois. Like I said, I was born and raised in a Christian home. I was kind of an undersized athlete but my senior year I started to grow. I was kinda late bloomer. My second to last game of my senior year I got an offer. [00:04:29]
I didn't have any scholarship offers at all other than to Illinois State. I was offered to play a tight end there, which is an offensive position. But I had no offers to play linebacker, which is a defensive position football until university offered me with like a game left in my senior season.
So they offered me a scholarship. I was able to go to University of Illinois, and really came in at the bottom of the depth chart, but was able to start within a year of actually getting there, became a four-year starter, became an All-American linebacker there, and one of the top tacklers in the history of the game, led the team to the 2007 Rose Bowl. And then went on to the NFL for four years, got hurt my fourth year. I got cut seven times, never really made it.
As great as my college career was, I was devastated in my pro career, because I got cut seven times, seven times. Remember I wasn't good enough. And I got three concussions in one season. That led me to post-concussion syndrome. I had to retire from football.
At 27 years old, I had a baby on the way and was married, but didn't know if I would ever have a head that didn't hurt. [00:05:35] So about eight to nine months later, my head finally got better. I got into the business world, doing some work in the nutrition space, and built a business of about a thousand people that sell a product with me called USANA, which is really a vitamin product that really helps people kind of live their best life from a health perspective.
Have done that and also have announced football games on TV for the Big Ten Network for the last six or seven years. I'm also an active entrepreneur and a real estate investor in Iowa and in the state of Illinois. I'm always, always up for the next big entrepreneurial hustle because I think that's kind of how I was raised.
I've been active in my church since I was a boy, but I have a wonderful wife, Katy, who I met at the University of Illinois. She played volleyball. We have three kids, six, four, and one, and we're having a blast in Champaign.
Laura Dugger: Well, that is a full plate. You talk about your parents instilling scripture in you. What characteristics did they instill in all of you kids from a young age? [00:06:39]
J Leman: The big three are basically faith, work, and sports. Faith was always central. I talked about Matthew 6:33. My dad grew up on a farm in Eureka, Illinois, and was terrified. He didn't say terrified, but was very worried that his sons would not be able to learn how to work or learn a proper work ethic, I should say, like he did. So it was always jobs every Saturday. We knew that we were not going to get college paid for, so we had to work to save up for it, or possibly get a scholarship.
So we started our own lawn service, Leman Lawn Service, got up to about 70 lawns a week. So it was pretty big with me and my brothers. Also, sports were a huge part of what we did. I had two older brothers and an older sister. The older brothers kind of got me into football and got me into basketball, and got me into track. [00:07:37]
And so I would say, you know, faith, work, and sports were just basically the big things that really were hammering home to us. Of course, there are other values such as treating people right, faith, generosity, and stuff like that, but those are the big three I can remember.
Laura Dugger: You've given one example of starting the lawn service, but what are some other practical things that they did to instill those values in you?
J Leman: I think just jobs after every meal. I still remember the list of jobs, whether it was wipe off the table or vacuum or broom or you would do the dishes or you had to take out the trash. There was a list and it was a rotating list. So number one, that.
Number two, we all had jobs we had to do which was add water to plants every day in the summer. I still remember friends coming over and wanting to play and me really wanting to play, my dad would tell the friends, "Listen, you guys you have two choices. J is gonna be working until three o'clock so you can stay and help us or you can go home." [00:08:42] It's super embarrassing when you're a kid to hear that. But I understand now why he did it.
I think one of my biggest fears in my life, if I'm being honest with myself, is that how do I transfer my work ethic and the way I was raised to my kids? Because I want them to really understand that nothing's really given for free in life, and you have to treat people the right way and work hard for things. So I think I always think about that because I know that was so valuable to me when I was growing up.
Laura Dugger: Now that you are a dad, do you have any family anchors or best practices that you can share with us?
J Leman: Yeah, absolutely. One thing, we truly believe that we've got to get the Word of God. It's our responsibility to expose them to The Bible, the principles in the Bible, the power of the Holy Spirit. We love the one-year Bible in our family. I personally read the one-year Bible. That's just a book anybody can get off Amazon for $15. [00:09:43] It's basically just a portion of the Old Testament, New Testament, Psalm, and a Proverb every day, and it's broken up into 365 sections, so you get through the Bible in one year.
It's probably 10 to 15 minutes worth of reading. And a lot of times at breakfast, we'll read through a section, maybe it's the proverb, maybe it's a psalm, maybe it's a portion of the New Testament or a story in the Old Testament that we go through with the kids. I don't know how much they get, they're six, four, and one, and how much they're listening, but the very fact that we do it.
And it's like, okay, we're going to do this. This is who we are. We're going to pray. We're going to ask if people get hurt, we're going to pray, run the spot for Jesus to heal them. If they're looking for something, we're going to ask Jesus to help us find something. So it has to be part of our lives.
And when we go to bed, we're always praying together, we're always reading Bible stories together. Of course, we're active in our church. It's way more than just relying on church, or if you go to a Christian school, we don't, and just relying on a school to teach your kid. We want to be really active. [00:10:49]
And most importantly, we don't want to just teach it to our kids. We want to live it for our kids. We want them to look at us and be like, "Okay, we can see that God is real in Mom and Dad's life," and that they're excited about it. That it's not a chore, but that they're passionate about it, so therefore, I'm gonna be excited about it.
Laura Dugger: Some of our listeners are also preacher's kids, so going back a little bit, did you feel like that cast a shadow for you, or what was that like to grow up a preacher's kid?
J Leman: I think that's really a good question. I think it does cast a shadow if you let it. For us, I never really thought like, Oh my gosh, I'm a pastor's kid, everybody's looking at me. Listen, my dad was always for it. You should want people looking at you. You got nothing to hide. You should want people looking at you and you should want to be known. Those things are not bad things. But just know that the stakes are always higher that you're a Leman. That stands for something. You've got a really proud heritage, and know that you represent all of us when you're out there in public in what you do. [00:11:54]
So I think we all kind of got that. We all knew that. Not that we didn't make mistakes. But at the same time, I think we all carried something with us that, okay, listen, Mom and Dad have really put their name on their back that they're going after God a hundred percent. They've given their life to the ministry. Not that it was like, don't mess it up. It was like, you've got a standard to live up to. I didn't feel pressure to do that. I just felt like it was the right thing to do.
Laura Dugger: Now going back to your current phase of life, I know that it's a busy season. So how are you prioritizing your marriage?
J Leman: Oh man, that's a great question. I recently moved back. I was in the Chicago suburbs for 10 years, where my wife is from. We met at the University of Illinois, and we decided to move back to the Champaign area, largely because of my parents' church. My sister and my brother-in-law are actually head of that church that my parents planted many years ago.
So we wanted to support them. We love Central Illinois, the community. [00:12:56] We also love the church. But we moved back and kind of funny, Laura, is we are rehabbing a house right now. So we kind of bought a fixer-upper in a great neighborhood. It just needed a little TLC. We've been staying with my parents for like three and a half months now, which I would not say is like the best recipe for a healthy, romantic, intimate marriage is to spend with your parents and whatnot.
So we had to be intentional like, okay, how do we create time? We've created, you know, whether it's walking around the block with just us are going to working on the house after the kids are down. It's kind of turn into our date is where we go over work in the house together, scrape off wallpaper, will paint. And we just talk back and forth.
Because when you don't have your own home and you're living with another family or in this case my parents, it's like you don't realize how much you really value personal time with your wife with nobody else around. So we've really had to make that our effort. [00:13:57]
One thing I always try to do when we have kind of more standard weekly rhythm when we're not leaving somebody else's house is my wife is a big... I'm a love language guy, you know, she's a big quality time and acts of service person. So if I, in the morning after I drop the kids off, I can get her Starbucks and bring it to her the way she just likes, I want to do that. And after everything's done, the kids are down, I can take an hour and spend time with her. That really kind of fills up her tank. So I try to be intentional with that. A little bit trickier when you don't have a home of your own, but we find a way to make it happen.
Laura Dugger: With the love languages, some people are very familiar with that book by Gary Chapman. The two of you, are you the same love language or are you different?
J Leman: You know, I don't think, Laura, that a lot of people are the same. It doesn't seem like a lot of people have the same love language. I'm sure it happens. I know Gary Chapman in the book says that. Rarely are people the same love language.
She is a quality time, acts of service person. [00:14:59] I am more of a... listen, I'm a words of affirmation, touch guy, so tell me how great I am and touch me all you want kind of guy with her. So it's kind of... I would say it's opposite. It's just different. But a lot of times we like to love how we like to be loved, right? We like to love others how we like to be loved, whether it's... We like to be touched the way we like to touch, you know, our spouse, or we like to have kind words.
I find myself… I'm a very encouraging person, I feel like, and I'll say like a lot of... You know, I'll say a lot of great things to my wife, you know, like, you look great or thank you for doing this or this really encouraged me to do that. And sometimes the way she responds I'm like, Does she even hear what I'm saying? As opposed to when I just go and get her coffee without looking for any affirmation after it. She can't do something to get an attaboy. That's taken me like ten years to learn.
But, you know, go and get her a coffee, she gets probably more out of that than me giving her a thousand compliments, which wouldn't be the same for me. I've kind of just given up more of just I don't have to understand why it is. She's just different than me and I'm just going to do it. [00:16:04]
Laura Dugger: And I love that your personality seems to be like, hey, no excuses. I'm going to go after the right thing. So I love those examples.
J Leman: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think it's very difficult to really... in any case in life, it seems very difficult with your spouse to some degree to really truly put yourself in someone else's shoes. I think we all see through a lens that's a little bit colored by our own perspectives and what we like and what's in it for us. And I think we truly have to put ourselves in their position.
Laura Dugger: Well, you seem to encourage work ethic, like you mentioned, and routine and healthy living. So how long have you been passionate about these disciplines?
J Leman: Well, you know, I've always been an athlete since I can remember. But in college, I got to the point where I was not the best player on my team anymore. So I was looking for solutions to give me an edge of course legally. You know, I didn't want to use any performance-enhancing drugs. [00:17:06] I didn't want to do anything harmful to my body. So I was like, what can I do that I could get an edge in the competition?
And it really got me into really being a self-taught student, and I had some mentors along the way, of nutrition. Everybody talks about the Keto diet now, the ketogenic diet, where basically you burn ketones instead of burning carbohydrates. You get your body to burn fat, and it helps you.
Back in 2005, 13 years ago, I got on the ketogenic diet. I read a book called Natural Hormonal Enhancement. I found out that diet soda is poison. I found out all the stuff we've been taught about carbohydrates and cholesterol and fat were a lot of fallacy. I basically started to do all kinds of crazy things. I started drinking 20 raw eggs a day, I started eating meat, one and a half pounds of red meat, I started eating butter, coconut oil before anybody was doing that, and changed my body. [00:18:08]
I went from 200 pounds to 245 pounds and grew two inches in college, which led me from being a scrub to being a pretty darn good football player by the time I left. I was always into it, my thoughts were always kind of counter to what they... they were always counter to the nutrition advice of the day up until very recently where it's kind of been substantiated.
Then I got hurt in 2012. I had concussions and again, the doctors wanted me to go on drugs. I wanted to pray and I wanted to use nutrition and that's really when I got into micronutrition. That was the big part for me. When I say micronutrition... macronutrition is basically protein, carbs, and fats, the three big nutrients we all know about. Micronutrition is really vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, water, how those nutrients are actually used in your body if you get the right amounts, you know, timed right in your body, what they can do to heal. It really helped me with my recovery from a lot of football injuries and whatnot. [00:19:08]
So I got really into that. I always joke with my wife because my wife is always healthy, but I always say that she was on the cancellation diet when I met her. She would say, "Oh, I had some ice cream. Let me have a stick of celery to cancel that out." I was like, "That doesn't work like that. You can't just do that." But it's been fun because we've grown together in how we actually eat. We eat really similar now and we feed our kids a very particular way. So it's an interesting thing. Yes, we're very into health.
Laura Dugger: So what does that look like? What are some family meal examples?
J Leman: I don't think you can beat eggs as far as a breakfast for kids. I mean, the protein, the fat, the cholesterol, so good for you. And people have been doing it for generations. So we're a big egg family for sure.
Really, our dinners are very simple. It is a healthy meat. That includes red meat, but there's going to be some kind of meat, some kind of vegetables, some kind of fruit. And we might throw a starch in there like a sweet potato every now and then. [00:20:12]
I always think, Laura, that we kind of grew up in the ultimate processed food generation. It's like, you want cereal? Sure, have cereal. Pop-Tart? Great. You want Kraft macaroni and cheese? Sure. You want a fruit by the foot. Like we ate all that stuff. And I'm like I want to give my kids that stuff with a 10-foot pole, you know, on a consistent basis. It's not bad to have a treat on that stuff. But it's like, that stuff's not good long term for your body.
Our meals are real simple, real clean snacks. It's hard to get kids to eat healthy all the time. So there are snacks. We try to do more nuts, and you do throw some crackers in there once in a while just because it's easy for kids. But that's pretty much what we do. Lunch is always just fruit, cut-up meat and cheese, and vegetables a lot. So that's kind of our style.
Laura Dugger: You've talked about some health. Let's talk about habits as well. Do you have any daily or weekly routines that have really impacted your life? [00:21:11]
J Leman: Yeah. I think I'm a huge... I want to spend time with Jesus every day. I've always gotten, I don't want to say always, but you know, for years and years I've gotten up early. I have read the one-year Bible. Since I was probably 14 years old I've read the one-year Bible probably every year except one or two years. So probably went through the Bible with the one-year Bible 18, 19 times. It's been great. So that's a big habit.
I love to journal. I think I hear God's voice the best when I journal because it's concrete to me. I work out probably three to four times a week, usually weightlifting and whatnot. My big thing is in the morning, you've got to make time for what the most important thing in your life is. For me, that's my faith and my family. So faith, family, and health.
A lot of times in the morning before the kids get up, I've worked out, I've spent some time with God. I get to spend then time with my family, making breakfast, getting the kids ready for school, taking one of them to school. I feel like if I start a day like that, you talk about faith, family, and health, you're really putting your priorities where you want to be at. [00:22:26]
One thing I've recently... So many entrepreneurs are raving about a book called The Morning Miracle by Hal Elrod. That's The Morning Miracle by Hal Elrod. And he recommends basically following six practices every morning. And uses the acronym SAVERS to tell you what those are.
SAVERS is silence. That's the S. A is for affirmation, V is for visualization, E is for exercise, R is for reading, and S is for Scribing or journaling. I was doing the ERS exercise reading and scribing, but I've gotten more into silence, affirmations, and visualization. And making that a discipline in my life because I truly believe that if I can be disciplined in those things, it's only going to accelerate the success and my journey to my goals and make me a better person overall for my family and my faith.
Laura Dugger: We'll make sure to link to all of this in the show notes. And now a brief message from our sponsor. [00:23:26]
Sponsor: Leman Property Management is this episode's sponsor. I can't say thank you enough to this reputable company. Leman Property Management offers over 750 apartment homes in 11 different locations throughout Pekin, Illinois. Whatever price range you may be looking for, whatever apartment style you want to call home, Leman Property Management will have the place for you.
Operating in Pekin for over four decades, they've developed the name associated with selection, service, and value. They offer townhomes with quiet settings off the busy routes or spacious apartments on the edge of town. They have locations in the buzzing downtown if that's what you prefer or apartments with attached mini storage sheds of all sizes. They truly have every area of Pekin covered. Find out why so many Pekin residents have called a Leman Property their home over the years.
The friendly staff, many whom have worked together now for 20 years or more, will make sure you are not disappointed. Find out more about them at midwestshelters.com or call their leasing office today at (309) 346 4159. You can also like them on Facebook at Leman Property Management Company. [00:24:42]
Laura Dugger: How has leadership played a role in your career?
J Leman: John Maxwell is a great leadership author. He says everything fall on leadership. You know, I've started out not knowing if I was a leader or not, but I always realized that people listen to me. And leadership is influence. I think you first lead by example. That gives you the right to be a vocal leader. I think I've always led by example, giving tremendous effort in everything that I did and trying to do stuff the right way.
I think from a very young age, even high school, I was always a vocal leader. Not that I planned to be that way. I just was. What was interesting in my house is I was the fourth out of five, so the youngest got attention, my little brother. The one above me was my sister. And my mom even told me that she was praying one day and in fourth grade, she was just convicted by the holy spirit, like, no one pays attention to J. Like she just thought no one ever paid attention to me. [00:25:52]
So what was interesting was because no one ever really talked to me or paid attention to me, I just had to talk. I started becoming more extroverted. Because nobody was talking to me I just had to talk myself and started talking to myself and trying to get attention. Which I think that made me more vocal and really helped me with my leadership down the line to be a vocal ear. Because I find a lot of people are hesitant to be vocal leader because I think they fear what other people might think of them.
Laura Dugger: And correct me if I'm wrong, but it just seems like you're the type that you don't embarrass easily and you have never-ending energy. So do you think any of that is part of your birth order?
J Leman: Yeah. I mean, I've always had a lot of energy. I've always been a pretty wound-up kid and always kinda I pop right out of bed in the morning. Like I never really slept past seven in my life. You know, there are handful times you travel and you go to bed late, at three or something. But I always felt like I was missing out on the day if I did that. [00:26:55]
Always been early riser. I truly truly think that because I was... You know, that's a larger norm. Because nobody really cared about me, I was nothing really special... I have two older brothers, they were kind of the leaders of the family, I was just trying to keep up in life.
It wasn't until they had moved on and were in college that I finally got to high school and realized that I've been fighting with big dogs my whole life, and now I'm with people my own age, and it was a little bit different. So I've had a confidence about me that really let me step into my own as far as being a vocal leader.
Laura Dugger: Which is, I think, God's favor on you as well. You've just really stood out in all these leadership positions. As you look at other leaders, what are some important characteristics that you believe other leaders should have?
J Leman: There are just tons of characteristics. What are the important ones? I mean, I think integrity. I mean, do you do what you say you're going to do? It's very hard for me to imagine an atheist being a super-strong leader. [00:28:00] Now, I know there are those there, but I just think that your faith is a pillar that you lean on when stuff gets tough. You know what? I love that verse in the Bible where it says... where they sack a town called Ziklag, and they take David's family and all David's men's families, and they turn on David, and they're about ready to kill King David. It says, but David found strength in the Lord his God. Where do you find strength when everything is down? And I think that's where the faith piece comes in. So faith, integrity, character.
I think the willingness to take risk and fail. Failure has just been a huge part of my story in life. I have failed numerous times. I tried to play in the NFL for four years, which I did, but I got cut seven times from the NFL team. My dream of playing in NFL got cut seven times. I fail numerous times in praying for people. I didn't see result I wanted to see. I failed numerous times in going for the sale. I've been told no in sales and business a ton. I was told no last week. [00:29:06] So “no” happens a lot. And how do you respond to that? That's true leadership.
Then it's not just about you, it's not about me, it's about we. It's not how far I can go, it's how far we can go. It's not "you go do it", it's "let's go do it." So I'm a big believer that if you wanna... This is John Maxwell. If you wanna go fast go alone; if you wanna go far go slow and together. That's kind of my big thing is that there's a lot of different characteristics, but if you don't have the faith, integrity piece, everything kind of crumbles.
Laura Dugger: We often hear that leaders are readers. So what are three of your current favorite books or leadership resources?
J Leman: I read the Bible every day, but I won't throw that in there. I think that's just on a different level because the wisdom of God is so far and above the wisdom of man. It's just not even in the same category. But three books that I think are good that I'm kind of feeding off of, number one would be The Miracle Morning. Miracle Morning, which I just talked about, I think, helps you with your habits. [00:30:12]
Number two I love The Alchemist. The Alchemist is a fictional book that's really about finding your destiny. Then number three, not a leadership book but I'm always trying to grow in my skill sets. So I've been basically reading two or three real estate books a month, maybe two real estate books a month, because I do real estate investing, have a little portfolio of properties, and I always try to stay sharp on that.
So this year I've been studying real estate. Years prior I've been studying sales. So I've done a sales book or a business book. Other times I've been doing leadership or something else that's kind of been my niche. So those are my three books.
I would say the third book, for instance, my real estate book right now is The Complete Guide to Buying and Selling Apartments. So that's a niche book, not really leadership, but I just believe it's feeding my brain some new information.
Laura Dugger: Our listeners are some of the kindest people we've met. Your gracious comments through social media, email, and our website fuel us to continue producing more content. [00:31:13] Some of you have asked what you can do to support The Savvy Sauce. As you know, we greatly appreciate it when you share episodes with friends.
And now, for as little as $2 a month, there is a new way to financially show your support. These contributions, ranging from $2 to $20 per month, will be rewarded with extra podcasts, free downloadable scripture cards, and more. Check out all the details at thesavvysauce.com and click on our "Patreon" tab to find out how you can be a supporter of the arts. Thanks for participating.
Do you have any other tips for listeners who want to also become the best versions of themselves?
J Leman: I would say if you don't have a faith, and for me I'm obviously biased towards Christianity, I honestly don't believe I can be the best version of myself without really understanding who and what I am in Christ, what is my identity in Christ because he created me before the foundation of the world and has a destiny and a call. [00:32:16]
What I love is a quote from the book I just mentioned which was The Alchemist is: to realize one's destiny is a person's only obligation. I feel like realizing your destiny has so much to do with your faith. To me that's a huge part of it, you know, is having faith.
Another thing that's huge is your habits, right? If you don't have proper habits... John Maxwell says you'll never change your life until you change something that you do daily. So what can you change that you do daily that can change your life? I think that's really comes out of your habits.
Laura Dugger: J if listeners want to find you online, where can they connect with you?
J Leman: It depends on what your cup of tea is for social media, but @jleman47 for Instagram. Facebook, look me up just J Leman. You can search it. And it's just the letter J. No period, no A-Y. Leman is L-E-M-A-N. Twitter, it's @jleman47. You can DM me anytime you want. That's probably the easiest way to find me. [00:33:27]
Laura Dugger: Well, if you've listened in before, you know that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or discernment, and we want to apply some of your savvy ways to our own lives. So as the final question today, what is your savvy sauce?
J Leman: My savvy sauce is really my morning routine. I think if you get the morning right, you set up the rest of the day. And I would challenge everybody on there, don't buy into the lie that you're not a morning person. I would challenge you to spend time with your faith, spend time with your family, and spend time on your health all before 8 a.m. I think that's so important. Because the faith is the only thing we can really take with us. Family is God's most precious gift to us here on earth. And if we don't have health, we can't really enjoy anything. So I really believe that if you can focus on those three things before 8 a.m., it's going to set up the rest of your day to be a success. [00:34:31]
Laura Dugger: Well, J, as expected, this has been a blast. You just have a magnetic personality and your energy is contagious. So thank you for sharing all of that with us today.
J Leman: Oh, of course. This is awesome. Just so happy to be a part of The Savvy Sauce podcast. I love what you guys stand for and what you're doing. I think it's a much-needed podcast in a space that's flooding with just so much information, and sometimes you need something with real value. I think that's what this is.
Laura Dugger: Thanks so much, J. I appreciate that. It really has been such a pleasure to have you today.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. [00:35:39] We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. [00:36:41] Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. [00:37:43]
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Thursday Nov 01, 2018
Thursday Nov 01, 2018
24. Spiritual Growth With Podcasters Heidi Bolt and Heather Toews
**Transcription Below**
Genesis 2:1-3 (NIV) “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.”
Heidi Bolt is a passionate follower of Jesus. She is married to Kipp and the momma of their three children, Crosley, Wilder & Kollins. She home educates their children, while pursuing both ministry and career home based. She lives in the heart of Illinois and is passionate about Jesus, people and the Church. Heidi has served in ministry for 21 years and has helped launch three local churches as well as an inner city ministry. Heidi and Kipp serve on the leadership team of Church 2:14. She is a preacher and evangelist on the Church 2:14 teaching team. Heidi is a founder and co-host of The H&H Hour podcast with her sister, Heather Toews. Through this platform they help people see their ordinary lives as extraordinary. Heidi has a lifestyle rhythm of pouring encouragement into people right in front of her, starting in her own home and neighborhood. As well as mentoring younger women and helping equip people with the truth of God’s Word.
Heather Toews is a passionate follower of Jesus, a wife to her Canadian husband, Chris and mom to two fun kids whom she home educates. This is both an act of obedience to God and a joy.Along with husband, Chris and six other couples, Heather helped start and leads a local church and is the Director of the Teaching Team. One of her favorite things in the world is equipping and empowering others to step into their God given gifts. Heather is co-host of The H&H Hour Podcast with her sister, Heidi Bolt. The girls use this platform to encourage others to see the ordinary in their lives as extraordinary. She is also co-founder of BLDG58, a ministry called to “Empower leaders and families”. Chris and Heather launched this ministry in January of 2018 and are excited to see where God takes it.
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Hey friends, we wouldn't be here without our sponsors. If you're interested in sponsoring an episode of The Savvy Sauce, please reach out to us at info@thesavvysauce.com.
Today I want to say a big thank you to our awesome sponsor, Leman Property Management in Central Illinois. With over 1600 apartment homes in all price ranges throughout Morton, Pekin, Peoria, Washington, and Canton, they can find the perfect spot for you. Make sure you go check them out today online. You can look them up at MidwestShelters.com or like them on Facebook by searching Leman, L-E-M-A-N, Property Management Company. We'll make sure and link to all of this in the show notes. Thanks for the sponsorship.
Heather Toews and Heidi Bolt are sisters and co-hosts of their own podcast, The H&H Hour. They seek to glorify God by sharing what's extraordinary about ordinary life. They prioritize their families and community first, in addition to being actively involved in ministry, working from home, and homeschooling their children.
We were introduced through our mutual friend, Jessie, and today we're going to discuss spiritual growth. I hope you glean something helpful from this chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, ladies.
Thank you so much. We're so happy to be here. Thanks for having us. It's exciting.
Laura Dugger: Very excited to have you. Can you just start by telling our listeners a little bit more about yourselves?
Heidi Bolt: My name is Heidi Bolt, and I have grown up in Central Illinois, right here, for my entire lifetime. I'm married to Kip, who also grew up in this area. We have three sweet little ones. They're all under the age of six. So it's been a busy few years. And my heartbeat is the local church. Just pointing people to Jesus and allowing people to see the hope of Jesus through the local church. I have been in local church ministry for 20 years.
Laura Dugger: That's incredible. Heather, what about you?
Heather Toews: My name is Heather Toews and I'm married to my one and only love of my life, Chris Toews. He's Canadian, so that's a fun little fact that sets me apart. We have two kids. Bennett is 11 and Juliet is 8. I, like Heidi, am so passionate about helping people find Jesus and pointing them to Jesus and really creating platforms where they get to express their own stories and their own gifts and use them.
We do that in a couple of different ways. We do that through our church, but we also do that through our own podcast. And that's really my heartbeat is just helping people find this path of their own where they get to meet Jesus and share Jesus.
Laura Dugger: Well, I am a regular listener of your podcast, The H&H Hour, and something that I've noticed that you both do extraordinarily well is champion the gifts of others around you. So if someone's listening and they want to learn how to apply that to their own lives, can you share how you do this?
Heather Toews: That is honestly something that I didn't realize was my heartbeat, but I was doing it. And I think just in the last few years, I began to put words to that and understand that that was a gift that God had given me, was to champion people, was to help create lanes for them to run in. And instead of just focusing on "this is my lane and I'm going to run in it," going "What is your lane and how can I help you run in that?"
That looks very different. Sometimes it looks like giving people an opportunity that they might not already have in terms of coming on a podcast or getting involved in our local church or starting their own Bible study in their home or, you know, can look like lots of different things. And sometimes it's just simply encouraging them in their everyday life and saying like, Look at this platform you already have with your kids. You have such an amazing opportunity right in front of you to every single day point your kids to Jesus and to create this culture in your home where they're beginning to see from a perspective that points them back to Jesus every day. [00:04:41]
So it can look like small things and it can look like really big things. But I have just become such an advocate of being a champion for other people and helping them find boldness in the gifts that God has put in them and not hold back from that. Even if it looks different than what the world might say is the right lane to run in or what your family might say is the right lane to run in, like go for it.
Heidi Bolt: Well, and just to echo that, Heather is... it is truly one of her gifts I can say that as someone that's so close to her. We're best friends, we're sisters, but we've been in ministry a long time together. So now even podcasting together, I feel like the Lord has even strengthened our heartbeat for each other.
But I would say one of her primary gifts is being able to see the gifts that God has put within people and call that out of them. Which is so unique. And with that, she has such a high capacity for people and for, honestly, dealing with the rough stuff that comes with it. Helping people get through those excuses of why they're not stepping into what God has for them and helping them go, Okay, now we're gonna take this step. [00:05:51]
So I would agree with you. That's one of your primary gifts. And that's, I think, one of the greatest things about God allowing you to be in your position of leadership is because you do champion others around you. And it's never about you. It's never about your platform.
Somebody said recently on one of our episodes, he said, you know, to light someone else's candle, it doesn't snuff yours out. And Heather does that so, so beautifully. So I don't know if that answered your question, but-
Heather Toews: I didn't always know that that was my gift, but I feel like I was just doing it without putting a label on it. I think so often we look for the label before we have-
Heidi Bolt: The title.
Heather Toews: ...walked through the actual work of it, like we've actually done it. There's such a big thing right now about, well, what is my calling, what is my gift, who am I supposed to be, where do I fit into this big picture of ministry or life or any sort of a calling that we might have? [00:06:51]
As I began to realize that I had been faithful in doing what was right in front of me, God began to really define, put definitions and borders and a title around what I had already been doing. I think that's really important for someone to hear is be faithful in whatever it is that's right in front of you, and at some point, you probably will go, Oh, that's what this is.
Laura Dugger: Are there any stories or examples that come to mind of somebody that you did see this gift and you were able to name it and call it out of them?
Heather Toews: Oh, wow. I mean, I-
Heidi Bolt: So many.
Heather Toews: Countless. Countless stories. I think that the beautiful thing is that it's not always a big platform gift that you call out of people. I think so often it is the everyday ordinary things that God has already put in them that they're just not recognizing as gifts.
So it might be a young mom at home who is so good at having people into her home and making a cup of coffee. [00:07:55] And to her, it's normal, but to the rest of us looking in, we go, that's your gift. You have the gift of hospitality, you have the gift of encouragement. And as you're bringing other people into your home, you're creating a safe place for them. Sometimes they just need someone to point that out and say like, that's a gift that I see in you.
I remember one time, this was quite a few years ago, probably eight years ago, we had a young man sit in our home and he looked at my husband and myself and he said, "You guys are the best people I've ever known at encouraging us to go for something, even if we're not quite deserving of it yet." That really struck me and it hasn't left me because that's who I want to be. Like I want to see someone and not just see their mistakes or not just see what they could be down the road. I want to call it out in them right now.
I talk about that a lot on our own podcast about our kids. Don't talk to your kids about "what do you want to be when you grow up?" Talk to them about who they are right now. I think that's true with anyone.
Heidi Bolt: Well, and for me on a personal note, I've always been a communicator and my heart is in evangelism. [00:09:01] So talking to people about Jesus and God's word comes natural for me. But I married a man who is much more quiet and introverted. And so when this whole concept of the way our church is structured, we have a teaching and a preaching team, and there are multiple ones of us that rotate. So we teach on different things and based on our different gift sets.
My husband is now part of that team and has been since the beginning of the church. And it has been so unique because he would have never said, "Oh, I'm a teacher, I'm a preacher, I'm an evangelist," but he is. And it's been so cool because truly it was Heather who started to call that out in him and to go, "No, you have a voice that's needed on this team. You might be wired differently than Heidi. You may not be the upfront evangelist, but the way you present God's word and the perspective you bring is so important and is so valuable."
So for me, on a really personal note, watching my own husband have that spoken over him to go, "No, you are worthy to be up here." [00:10:03] And I think it's too unique because he does come from a home of divorce. And so just a lot of those seeds that were put in him from a very young age as a 5-year-old boy going, "Where do I fit? Do I belong? Why is my home broken? Am I with Dad? Am I with mom?" So, having that ability to go, "You're a son of God. You belong right here in this church. You belong right here in this position of authority to speak the grace of God over people," to me, that's been very profound.
Laura Dugger: I think Jesus did that so well, even with the people that we read about in the Bible. Nobody was perfect when He called them, but He spoke of what they could be. And it sounds like you're passing that on.
Also from listening to your podcast, it's clear that God's word is extremely important to both of you. So what are you currently reading and learning from the Bible?
Heather Toews: I am currently diving into Mark. I love the Gospels. And I know this sounds super cliché because everyone's like, Oh, the Gospels. [00:11:05] But I've been walking through some really hard things with some people close to me recently. And as I've been in prayer about it, I keep just thinking, Jesus, how would you walk this out if you were right here in physical form next to me? What advice would you give me?
And so I've just been going to the gospels to go, okay, how did Jesus act? How did He respond to people that... situations that were hard? How did He physically walk out the truth of God? So I'm in Mark right now just kind of reminding myself anew of how Jesus walked it out.
Heidi Bolt: I am doing two things. I pretty much stick in Psalms consistently. I feel like Psalms for me is a place where I get refreshed. It's where the Lord just takes... whatever it is that I'm going through, He has a word for me in that. And it's almost like balm on my heart, on my soul, you know, where He can just fill me up and heal me or encourage me.
Psalms is like... it works for everything, you know? And so I stick there all the time. Sometimes I read it from beginning to end, you know, however long that might take me, and sometimes I just randomly turn to a psalm and read that. [00:12:18]
His word is always so true and good to meet us where we're at. But I also find that I have times where I'm... like right now I'm in Revelation. That's more of a learning and getting knowledge and getting information and studying and going a little more in-depth.
So I think it's really important that we learn how to read the Bible in two different ways. One, where we're getting filled up and we're in an intimate communion with the Lord. And then also, what am I learning from the Bible? What am I studying? How am I equipping myself with more biblical knowledge so that I have a better understanding when I talk to people or when I'm teaching it?
Revelation is one of those books that lots of people ask me questions about all the time. They find it scary. They find it confusing. They find it like, I don't really understand this. It is a little bit unknown because most of it is prophecy about things that haven't happened yet. I love looking at the Bible as like all of these things that have happened. And then there's a lot that we may be living in a time where we still get to see this part of the Bible come to life. [00:13:26]
So I have been diving into that and it is so interesting and it is so hard to understand, but just asking the Lord to give me clarity on some things so that when I do teach it, when I do talk to people about it, I have a little more insight.
Laura Dugger: You both mentioned there's five children between the two of you, and they're pretty young still. So if somebody's listening... you said you're great, Heather, at going through excuses. So if they're listening and they think, when do I have the time to do this, what word would you share with them?
Heather Toews: That's so good. That's a great question. I think moms specifically use their kiddos as an excuse to not be in front of Jesus. But I also think a lot of those same moms are on social media a lot. Sometimes it's taking something out to put something else in and if it means every morning you're grabbing your phone and maybe do a test for yourself. Go, Okay, I grabbed my phone at 7:05 and I didn't set it down until 7:20. That's 15 minutes of time that you could have been in God's Word. [00:14:30]
The days that you choose Jesus over other things, I promise you, you will see the fruit of that. So it can be super simple. Sometimes for me it's sitting on my couch with my cup of coffee with all of my kiddos, honestly, not being perfectly peaceful coloring in their books or playing their puzzles, but letting them watch a TV show while I get into God's word or letting them, you know, play a game on my iPhone. I know that sounds horrible, doesn't it? But this is real life. This is me going, "I need time with Jesus." And if I don't have three little kids saying mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy, every 10 seconds, then I'm gonna be able to get into God's Word.
Then sometimes it's later at night where I have a little bit more uninterrupted time where I know, Hey, I'm gonna get 45 minutes to read and to study because everyone's finally asleep. So really just not being a stickler about it, like this has to happen like this, or else it doesn't count, knowing that it's gonna ebb and flow and being okay with that.
Heidi Bolt: I'm in a little bit different season because my kids are a little bit older. [00:15:33] I actually have to go wake them up in the mornings, which is crazy that we've reached that stage. So I do have time in the mornings to dig into God's word. But having said that, having older kids, our schedules are very busy and we're constantly going.
So I've had to learn that it's okay to sometimes have my quiet time be in the car while I'm waiting at a baseball game, the game to start. Or my quiet time might be driving and listening to a podcast, a sermon, you know, which is filling me up and speaking God's truth into me.
So not having such a rigid view of what being with the Holy Spirit, being with God looks like, and being able to change that up as my seasons change, you know, once school starts, that'll change again. And just having this flexibility to know that God doesn't limit us to sitting on the couch and opening our Bible to speak to us. He can speak to us. And honestly, He speaks to me the most when I'm in the shower. Which I seriously need someone to come up with a way to take notes in the shower where it won't get washed off.
Laura Dugger: I think it's out there. I think it's like a shower marker.
Heidi Bolt: Permanent marker. [00:16:42] Because I do feel like I hear from God so intimately in those moments because it's quiet and I'm just focused and I'm not distracted by the laundry or by the phone or anything else. Just being willing to let God speak to you no matter where you are.
Heather Toews: That's good.
Laura Dugger: You mentioned the Holy Spirit. How do you both personally hear from the Holy Spirit?
Heather Toews: That is such a good question. As I've gotten older, I've learned that He's constantly speaking. It's learning to identify what is His voice and what is my own or what are lies from the enemy. And that is not always easy. I think that comes with knowing Jesus.
The more you spend time with Him, the more you're in communion with Him and you're in your word, you will begin to be able to differentiate when it's the Holy Spirit or when it's your flesh, or when it's from the devil. Because our feelings lie to us and I believe that Satan is constantly trying to get those thoughts into our minds. You know, what gets our minds gets us. [00:17:48] So he uses our minds a lot. But on the flip side of that the Holy Spirit is constantly prompting us.
So for me honestly there have only been a handful of times where I actually feel like I've heard... I wouldn't even call it an audible voice but I would call it like a whisper or just almost like it's this loud voice in your mind where you know it's the Holy Spirit, you know it's the Lord speaking to you. Most of the time, it's just a feeling inside my soul, and I go, "Oh, that's the Holy Spirit. I need to follow up on that."
Heidi Bolt: I would say for me, I most often recognize that it's the Holy Spirit when it is directly mimicking what He's speaking to me through His word. Like I'll feel this thought or this feeling and I'll think, Man, is that an idea from God or is that an idea from me? And I'll go, "No, that's got to be the Lord because it is so much of what He's been speaking through His word to me."
I would say you're probably not going to hear from the Holy Spirit if you're not in His word because that is how He starts His communication with us is by knowing His word. Because then when life happens you are able to recall the truth that you've learned in His word, you've put it in your heart, you've put it in your mind, you've put it in your soul. [00:19:01]
So those are the thoughts that come to mind when life happens. Because let's be real life is going to happen, isn't it? Like we've got littles, we've got marriages, we've got businesses, we've got people. So life is going to get messy.
I think the Holy Spirit is the overlooked part of the Trinity. We all believe in God and we all love Jesus and we're so passionate about Jesus. And then it's like, "Oh, but the Holy Spirit feels kind of scary because it seems a little unknown. So let's just leave that aside. Let's put that up in the little attic room of our world and pretend it's not there so that we don't have to deal with it so that we don't have to face conviction."
For me, it's that willingness to acknowledge the Holy Spirit's the one that's here. Jesus said, "I'm going to send Him as your helper, and it's better for you if he comes and I'm not here." So, knowing He's right here all day long, every day, guiding me, leading me, prompting my thoughts, prompting my reactions and my responses, and I get to decide if I follow those promptings or if I ignore them. And I'm not always perfect at following them. [00:20:03] On days that I feel grumpy, I know: "I think I'm ignoring the Holy Spirit right now because He's not grumpy."
Heather Toews: I've also found too that He is so good to give you confirmation. When you follow through with something, you know, say, If you feel like, hey, text this friend and encourage them, and then you do that, and then they respond with, I desperately needed this, that's when you can go, Okay, yay, I listened to the Holy Spirit and I followed through with that. And He will do that. He will confirm to you that you've heard His voice.
Heidi Bolt: And don't you find, Heather, that as you do that, as you start to step out, even if it feels uncomfortable or awkward or like, "Why would I do this? This is so weird. I don't even know her very well." But as you start to do that, you start to go, Okay, that was God. Then the next time it comes up, it is more familiar and you recognize it.
Just like I would run into you, Laura, and go, "You're Laura. I know you because I sat across from you and I podcasted with you." Next time I see you I'm going to remember that you're Laura and you podcast because I've been with you. [00:21:01] So it's recognizing... And it becomes a rhythm. It really does become a rhythm in your life.
Laura Dugger: That's so beautifully put and such a difficult concept to talk about. The next topic can be a little tricky, but can you shed light on the biblical wisdom of being a woman with the spiritual gift of leadership?
Heidi Bolt: That is a great question.
Heather Toews: It is. And you're right, it is tricky. Right now our world is very much consumed with a lot of this conversation, both inside the church and outside of the church. Like, when I see people who I really respect and who are seasons ahead of me in ministry, and they're just now coming out and they're saying, "Enough is enough. It has been too long that women have been held back." And I want to be very clear, I am not talking about this from a women's liberal-
Laura Dugger: Like a feminist-
Heather Toews: ...feminist standpoint at all. I 100% believe that there is an authority structure that God has designed both inside the church, inside families, inside marriages. [00:22:04] However, I do believe that for women, what God has designed and put in us has been held down because of religion, because of legalism, because of misinterpretation of God's design, both in marriage and in the church, and in leadership roles.
I am so excited to be on this breakthrough really that I see in the church for women's voices to not only be heard and allowed but to be respected. And knowing that we have such a different gift set than men have, and we bring such a different perspective to the table.
I often will look at a table of people, and it doesn't matter if it's a business or a church, or a family, and if there's not a woman there, they're missing out because of the way that God designed us. God designed men and women to complement one another, and their gifts to complement one another, and I don't think that the church is separate from that. [00:23:07] I think if he designed it in the family to be that way, then it fits inside the church that way too.
I think what has happened is there has been... over the last 50 to 100 years, there has been a few scriptures that have been taken so out of context in the way that they were written and in the culture that was going on in that particular church, that particular local church of that day, that has shaped this idea of women being silent in the church and of women's gifts being secondary. And they are not secondary. It is about time that God starts to get the glory instead of Satan getting the victory in terms of women's roles.
Heidi Bolt: Heather, I think that's such a great answer. I think it's so important to understand... Okay, so Heather and I are both leaders in our church. However, we lead right alongside our husbands. We're under their authority. We're under their protection. They are championing us. It's not as if, you know, we're on this leadership team that's just women-run and women-based. [00:24:15]
All of us women leading on our team are leading with our spouse right alongside us as one, as a team. and so that's the unique part of it. I think it would be easy for people to look in and go, well... not meaning just us but women that think they are leaders have a lack of authority in their life. That's so unique because for us I look at our leadership structure and we've got these six couples, we've got six women leading, six men leading, all six of these men go, we approve of this woman leading, we approve of this woman leading, and they are championing us.
So I think it's important for maybe if there is a woman listening going, man, I feel like God's calling me to this, really step back and go, "Okay, God is calling me to this." Has He put men around you that are helping call that out in you?" Also, though, it's important to understand that I have not always had the men in my life who were my leaders supporting the cause God was calling me to. [00:25:13]
So I had to be faithful to go, Okay, Lord, I know this is what you're calling me to, but the voices around me are saying, Well, you're a woman, so you're not qualified or you're not the one to do it because you're not a man. What do you say about me, God? Who do you say that I am? How have you designed me? What are the gifts you've put in me? The gifts you've put in me are communication and of God's word and of evangelism. So if you put those in me, I know they're supposed to come out of me."
And so doing it in a way that is honoring to Jesus and frankly honoring to the men around us as well, not assuming like we are better than them, we can say it better than them. Absolutely not. My favorite thing in the entire world is to watch the men of God in our church step up and lead. And they're leading so well around us.
And I think that is the reason God is raising up women leaders within our church is because the men are leading also. Not because there's a lack of leadership from the men. That's not why there's women leading. Because the men are leading and they are empowering their women around them. [00:26:13]
Heather Toews: I love too that there are men now on the church stage, the global church stage, that are recognizing that and speaking out and propelling this idea specifically inside the church. Great leaders that we love and follow, Brian Houston and Craig Groeschel. They're championing these women around them.
I heard Craig Groeschel say this the other day, and I thought it was so good. He said, "When I look at a job application for hiring someone inside of our church," he says, "I don't look at whether they're male or female. I look and I say, "Which one fits the job position the best?" That's really such a beautiful way of looking at it. Who has the gifts that fit this role in our church?
Laura Dugger: Now, what about the person who's pushing back and they say, well, there's scripture that says that women should be quieter in church? You've talked about the Bible informing your decisions and the Holy Spirit affirming that. Can you think of any scriptures that go along with what we're talking about? [00:27:11]
Heidi Bolt: Oh, there's countless. And I think that they get overlooked because the few that talk about women being silent in the church get such a big platform. I don't think that we can take a few scriptures and leave everything else out.
If you look traditionally at the stories in the Bible, God often used women to start local churches. Lydia was one of the first people to help create a local church when the church in Acts began. She funded it because she was a businesswoman. She held it in her home and opened her home up. If you can't call that church ministry, then you can't call anything church ministry.
Esther, you know, the role that she was put in. She was leading her people. She called her people to a fast before she went before the king.
Laura Dugger: Which is a biblical discipline.
Heidi Bolt: A biblical discipline. So that looks a little bit different than what we look like in the church today, but it's the same thing. It's a group of people following God and her stepping up in leadership, the gifts, and the role that God had put her in that season. [00:28:12]
So there are countless examples of women who were involved in ministry. It's just those don't get highlighted as much as the couple of verses that say. I think it's very important for people to study the context which those few verses were written.
There were issues inside the local church that that particular book was written to, that Paul was addressing because of some things that were going on. It would be no different than if there was something going on in our church that and someone in leadership wrote a letter or got up on stage and spoke specifically against a certain spirit that was happening or a certain issue that was happening inside our church. And that got recorded. And then 2,000 years down the road, someone said, well, this is the only way it can be done, not recognizing that it was something that was going on in our particular local church.
So you have to read it in context, you have to understand the culture that was going on in that time and really look at the Bible as a whole and not as one or two verses and choose those as your platform to stand on.
Heather Toews: Well, and I think someone that would be pushing back, I think that we have lived in a history in our culture for many decades where women were told what they were not. We've spent a long time preparing people's minds to believe that is truth, wiring people's brains to believe that that is true. [00:29:39] So, it may take a while to see some of this undone. Now, I do believe the Holy Spirit can accomplish in moments what can take decades to create an issue within.
Heidi Bolt: I think in today's culture you can find negativity about anyone or any place or anything or any church or any restaurant. You know, your husband's in the restaurant world. I'm sure there's people that hate on y'all because you're closed on Sundays and they think that means you think you're better than them. And it's like, that's not the heart of it, is it? The heart of it is giving your people rest.
Anytime someone has negativity and pushback about something, it's probably one of two things. Either a root in their thinking or their heart that they themselves need to work through, an insecurity in their own life, or two, it's that they just simply are unfamiliar with it, and so therefore they're worried to go there.
Laura Dugger: And it makes me think what you're doing, thinking of Priscilla and Aquila as well, just a married couple going after it together. [00:30:43]
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Laura Dugger: Why is rest important as a Christian, and what does that look like in your own lives?
Heather Toews: Oh, I love this topic so much. This is something that my husband and I have had to learn. And honestly, it is vital to our longevity, both in our marriage, in our family, and also in our ministry. I will say that for many years, we did not rest well because we were yes people. Yes to everything because we wanted to please the people we were serving, the leadership that we were under. Whomever it was that was in front of us, we wanted to make them happy by saying yes to everything. And it about killed us.
The reality is we had to get to the point where we realized we were the only ones who were going to protect our own time. [00:32:57] No one else was going to do it for us. No one was going to stand at our door and say, nope, don't accept that one, or nope don't accept that, even if they were really good things.
A few years ago we started implementing when we would sit down and look at our calendar, which first of all creating an online calendar that we both have access to that we put everything on has been one of the best things for our marriage. And it's something we tell young married couples right away: have a joint calendar because you will forego so much miscommunication by having that happen.
But one of the things that we had to start doing was putting white space. We actually use that term "white space" and we put it on our calendar for certain evenings, certain days. Okay, so we've even done this for say a certain month where we've had a couple of months that have been really busy, have been really full, we haven't had any white space, we haven't had any downtime. And so we might look at the next month and say, this month is white space. And then protecting that for our family and for our marriage so that we can have longevity in ministry so that we can keep loving people and encouraging people. That has been really important for us, both in our marriage and in ministry. [00:34:14]
Heidi Bolt: That's a great answer. I could truly echo her. We tease that Heather and I have a cloud that our brains just exist within. And so we will say the same things. And so I could truly echo her. But I have two thoughts. One is our Mom truly taught us from a young age to say yes to what was best and to be willing to say no to what was not best.
She taught us that and she really lived that out. And it wasn't in a way of keeping people out or of not being willing to be productive. She was super productive. It was in a way of really recognizing what we put our efforts into, and what are the options we let pass.
Then second of all is I really believe if God's Word examples it, we also need to follow it. In case our listeners aren't familiar, you know, I believe in the Word of God. And the Word of God starts in Genesis 1 where God begins creating this world that we live in. We are all still reaping the benefits of how He designed this planet. [00:35:15]
Genesis 1 goes through the six days of creation and all of the beauty that was spoken literally into that. Then Genesis 2, it says this. And I'm going to read it. It says, "...so the creation of the heavens and the earth and everything in them was completed. And on the seventh day, God had finished his work of creation, so He rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy because it was the day when He rested from all his work of creation."
So I'm sitting here thinking, If the creator of the universe, who knows the number of hairs on our heads, who knows everyone by name, who breathed his breath into every single one of our lungs, if He Himself rested and then we probably should be too. So just creating that rhythm of allowing yourself to rest. It's not a laziness. It's an actual act of obedience to the word of God.
Heather Toews: And I also believe that we have gotten so busy and so consumed with all of the things, both in our own lives and in our kids' lives. [00:36:20] And it's really, I think, a distraction that the devil is using to keep us from true rest. Because when we're so busy and our minds are so full and our schedules are so full, we really miss out on hearing what the Holy Spirit is speaking to us because we're constantly going, going, going, going, going.
I think it's a weapon the devil has used, and I think it's time that we say, no, we're going to be in control of our schedules. That might mean you take your kids out of one or two or three events. That might mean you step back from saying yes to some things that are really fun and really good and you might hurt some people's feelings and they might not understand it, but you create space so that you don't feel frazzled all the time.
Laura Dugger: I want to be careful with how I word this next question because I think it could be misinterpreted as minimizing our relationship with God down to a to-do list. But that's not what I'm intending. So hopefully you can understand my heart behind this. [00:37:21] But what are some practical ways that we can all grow spiritually with God?
Heidi Bolt: That's a great question. I think so often people want to minimize their relationship with Jesus based on what society tells us a relationship with Jesus is. A lot of times that is simply going to church a few times a year for many Christians here in America.
This is so interesting. I've recently gained a new friend in a new neighborhood that I'm in, and she is a recently converted Christian from the Muslim faith. And as I talk with her and as I hear what she sees a relationship with Jesus Christ looking like, through her eyes that are so fresh and so new, I almost feel like my eyes are being reopened to the joy of salvation, to the truth of salvation.
I would say some practical things in following Jesus, open His word. Because God's word it says it's living and it's active. You know, we wake up in the morning and we think, Oh, I'm thirsty. So what do we do? We get a drink of water. Or, I'm hungry, so we make our eggs and our toast, right, and we eat and we consume the things that we know will nourish us. [00:38:40]
So practically, spiritually consuming God's Word. And not just reading it, but then applying it. Going, okay, I might read one verse today and then focus on applying that one verse. So if you're a super busy, overwhelmed mama, that one verse might be the word and the life you need for your soul.
And then being willing to converse with God the Father about everything. Nothing is too small. You know, being able to go sit in your closet, and cry about your 3-year-old if you need to do that, and say, "God, I am so frustrated right now. I don't even like being with him right now." And being willing to be honest with God, because God already knows your heart. And so as you vocalize those things to God the Father, He's just like a parent, like us, where when our child says to us, "I'm feeling lonely," or "I'm feeling broken about this," He is communicating that to us and then we're able to help fill him up in the ways that his spirit needs filled.
God's the same way with us. I think we have made it way more difficult than what it needs to be. It's really like a father-son relationship where you just hang out with God and get to know Him through His word and through prayer. [00:39:53]
I would say there are definitely some deeper spiritual rhythms that you can implement down the road as you know God more. But I think that's where it starts.
Heather Toews: We live in a day and age where it's so easy to access so many things that help us with this. So you can pull it up on your phone. You know, YouVersion is an amazing tool, and there are countless studies on there for anything. If you're anxious, you're struggling with anxiety, you can type in "anxiety" and it'll pull up Bible studies for that.
My practical advice would be find some people that point you to Jesus and spend time with them. Call them and meet for coffee with them, hang out with them. Hang out with those people instead of the people that drag you down, the people that are always talking about what the latest clothing that they bought.
And I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that fun stuff. We like that fun stuff too. But you know how there are those friends that you leave and you're like, "Oh, I feel drained." And then there are those people that you're like, "I feel so full, I feel so energized because they just pointed me to Jesus." [00:40:57]
So if you don't have those people in your life, find them, spend time with them, and then get into a Bible study. If there isn't one available around you, start one. I know that sounds super intimidating, but it's not. You can order lots of different ones online. They have leader's guides. All you have to do is invite some women into your home and start studying the Word of God together.
Heidi Bolt: I would follow along with that. Get in a local church. If you're not in one... you know, attending a few times a year just doesn't cut it. If you want to lose weight and you go work out three times in one year, you're not going to lose weight. You're not going to have a healthy heart. So get in a local church, a church that is preaching God's Word, preaching truth. Even if it requires sacrifice on your part.
We've got this young family who is driving about 30 minutes to get to our church because they so believe that God called them there. And she told me on Sunday, she said, "The last four months as we have driven, God has filled us up so, so, so much and began to work out all of these things that we've been praying for a few years. We're seeing God step in for us." [00:42:02]
I think sometimes following Jesus does require some sacrifice on our part, and it's not always easy. But being willing to push through a little bit and to find the truth.
Heather Toews: Heidi, can I also add to that analogy that you used about working out? Yes, if you work out three times, you're not going to lose weight, but if you continue to feed yourself junk food, you're also not going to lose weight.
Heidi Bolt: That's right.
Heather Toews: So at the same time as you're feeding yourself with God's Word, what are you taking out of your life that is filling you up that is junk? And it can look like lots of different things. Negativity, Netflix binging. I mean, some of the stuff that we watch these days that we find acceptable. You know, 50 years ago, our grandparents would be freaking out that we were allowing this in our homes.
I'm not saying don't watch TV. My husband and I love to sit down and watch a show together. But what are you taking out that's putting junk into your soul? I think that's really important too.
Heidi Bolt: That's good. [00:42:59]
Laura Dugger: These first eight weeks have been a blast for our entire team. Our plan was to release a lot of great content these first few months and then slow down to a more sustainable pace, releasing one episode each week. I hope you look forward to Monday mornings when a new episode will be available.
And if you're a podcast junkie like me, you may desire more than one episode per week. That's one reason we want to let you know that we're going to offer Patreon. So here's how it works. Go to thesavvysauce.com and click on our Patreon tab. There you can sign up to become a monthly contributor.
If you contribute $2 per month, you're going to receive a free quarterly printable scripture card. For a contribution of $5 per month, you'll get the same perk and you'll get extra podcasts only available to patrons. For $20 per month, you will get all of these previously mentioned freebies and one Savvy Sauce pop socket.
Of course, you can always make a one-time gift, and we are so appreciative of every dollar you contribute. We will keep pouring it into the business to produce great content for you now and in the future. [00:44:06] Thanks for participating.
We love talking about practical things here, and it's tied into our name, The Savvy Sauce, because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. So as my final question to you two today, ladies, what is your savvy sauce?
Heather Toews: [00:44:22] You know, this is something I've been thinking about recently because I think I'm going through it as a mom in my season right now, but it also applies in lots of other areas. And it is this whole letting go of control. I think so many of us, particularly as mamas, we want to control everything. We want things to fit into our idea of what they should look like. We want our schedules to be controlled. We want our children to be controlled. And when things go outside of that control, we tend to freak out, overreact, and think the world is crashing in when really it's not. Things are just a little messy because life can be a little messy.
This is coming up... Again because I have an 11-year-old and I sent him off today for his first event that's out of state without mom or dad on a student ministry trip. And as he sat there this morning, my first reaction was pray a lot and ask the Lord to protect him. But then my second thought was, this is part of my process of learning to let go a little bit. I don't have to let go fully, he's only 11, but letting go a little bit right now so that when he's 18 and he goes away to college or God calls him to the mission field or something that I don't even know about yet that I will be that much more prepared. [00:45:45]
And so as I was thinking about this, and I've been processing this over the last few weeks, I think that there are seasons of that for every stage. It doesn't matter if you don't have children yet, or you have littles at home, or you have middles, or you've already let all of your children go. There is this learning to let go of control, and it's this loosening of our grip so that God can take over so that you can trust Him.
I remember a few years ago —I really don't like to fly that much, which is hilarious because we do it quite often — I was so scared and my hands were clenched and I was holding on to the seat, even though there was nothing to be worried about in that moment. There was no turbulence. It was just all in my psyche, in my head. And I remember the Holy Spirit saying, do you trust me? And I was like, "Yes, yes, I do. I trust you." And He said, "Then then act like it." [00:46:38]
"You know, do you trust me with your life?" "Then relax your hands and enjoy this flight instead of freaking out that something's going to happen because I'm in control of your life. I have control of your life. I think it's the same with our kids. Like, God, do I trust you with my children? Okay, I'm going to let go a little bit of control. In this case, it's, you know, my son going out of state for the day. But it can be about anything.
When we hold too tightly to something and we try to control it, we really are not trusting God and we are not letting Him lead us.
Heidi Bolt: I would say my savvy sauce is something that we were taught from a really young age from my parents and that it's faith in Jesus. That the name of Jesus conquers everything. And it doesn't always mean the outcome is what we hope for or what we think is best. But God's always working for our good.
You know, I remember being a really young girl and I was jumping on this little... remember those little workout trampolines that our moms would do aerobics on and they would jump and they do all this crazy stuff? And now that I'm a mom, I totally get why they were doing that. [00:47:48]
But we had one of those and we lived in this old farmhouse and so they had the old school Radiators that were like... what were those called, Heather?
Heather Toews: Radiators. I don't know. Steam radiators.
Heidi Bolt: Yeah. And the water would flow through when they'd get really hot and they were rigid at the top. So I'm a little girl and I'm jumping on this trampoline and I fall off and I hit the radiator and my head splits open. I was probably four, I was wearing this little white sundress and immediately it was covered and it was red because it was so much blood.
I remember Heather and my parents coming over and laying their hands on me and just praying, "The blood of Jesus, Jesus, heal Heidi." And that's all I remember. Then I remember that the blood, the bleeding stopped right away and I was healed.
I know there might be people listening going, that is ridiculous. But it happened. And there were witnesses. So faith to believe that God intervenes in anything. Then also them teaching us that just the blood of Jesus, you know, if you're afraid, if you're scared, if you're worried, just ask the blood of Jesus. "Jesus." You know, say the name of Jesus and just watch Him show up, watch Him work. [00:48:58]
On a really practical level, I've had a lot of opportunity to exercise that in the last few months and to really go, "Man, Lord, this situation is really hard. I'm doing everything air quotes "right", but we're not having breakthrough in this." So really just going, "Jesus, I trust you through this. This is not how I want this to be going, but I trust you. And that sounds kind of very Christianese, but it really is just Jesus and trusting that He is so present and that He is so intimately involved in everything that I'm walking through. So therefore trusting Him that this is a path that He's sending us down in order to help refine our hearts more towards Him.
Laura Dugger: I love everything that you two have shared. You're just clearly both bursting with all these gifts that the Lord has put in you. Thank you for also exercising walking in faith, and letting those come out of you. I know you've blessed me and all the listeners today, so thank you for sharing.
Heather Toews: Oh, thank you so much for having us.
Heidi Bolt: Thanks for having us. It's been a fun conversation. [00:50:10]
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:51:16]
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:52:17]
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. [00:53:16]
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Oct 29, 2018
Monday Oct 29, 2018
23. Nurturing Friendships With Harvard Graduate, Jackie Coleman
**Transcription Below**
1 Corinthians 2:9 (NIV) “However, as it is written: no eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”
Jackie Coleman completed her undergraduate studies at the University of Georgia in 2005. She later earned an M.A. in Counseling from Richmont Graduate University and an M.Ed. from Harvard Graduate School of Education, where she was named an Urban Scholar. While in Boston, she worked as a bilingual Family Counselor for Youth Villages, and later launched the Transitional Living program, which is designed to assist at-risk youth aging out of state custody. While in Atlanta, she worked on marriage and family issues with Building Intimate Marriages and research and writing projects for best-selling author Shaunti Feldhahn. In 2012, as Executive Director, Jackie helped design and implement Governor Deal's REACH (Realizing Educational Achievement Can Happen) Georgia program, a mentoring and college scholarship opportunity for low-income middle school students. Most recently, Jackie has been teaching at Winters Chapel School where her children, John Wyatt (4) and Olive (2), attend.
Mr. Feit’s principles to live by• Trust God • Expect a miracle• Never take a single moment for granted• Be anxious for nothing At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Honey For a Child’s Heart by Gladys Hunt The Vanishing American Adult: Our Coming-of-Age Crisis—And How to Rebuild a Culture of Self-Reliance, by Ben Sasse John and Jackie’s Article on Work-Life Balance John’s Most Recent Article on Work-Life Balance Amazon FreshStitch Fix
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: I want to say thank you to today's sponsor, Fair+Simple. This business connects people with gifts and products that are making a positive impact. If you'd like to learn more, visit fairandsimple.com.
Welcome, friends. Today we get to hear from one of the smartest people I know, Jackie Coleman. Jackie is a marriage and family therapist. Additionally, she has worked in various educational settings after graduating from Harvard Graduate School of Education. She is a wife of John and mother to two, with number three on the way.
Today we get to chat with Jackie and learn about nurturing friendships as a mom, practical ways to take care of ourselves, and she even shares a few book recommendations. Wherever this finds you, driving, cleaning, cooking, or anywhere else, I hope you enjoy the chat as much as I did. [00:01:19]
Hey, Jackie.
Jackie Coleman: Hi, Laura. How's it going?
Laura Dugger: Great. Thanks so much for joining us today. Jackie and I met through graduate school in Atlanta over 10 years ago when we were both studying to become marriage and family therapists. Jackie currently lives in Atlanta, but is originally from Rhode Island. Can you just give us a snapshot of your life from that point forward?
Jackie Coleman: Absolutely. I know it's a big leap thinking of a girl from Rhode Island in Georgia, but the middle of my sophomore year in high school, my dad decided he wanted to start a practice. He's a pediatrician. He wanted to start a practice in a warmer location, so he sold our snowblower and moved us south. And I will say, he moved us on Christmas Day, which added a little bit of insult to injury, I think, and I disliked my parents maybe for about a week, and then the transition was great. [00:02:17]
So I went to high school in Georgia for one year, and then I did my senior year of high school, enrolled at Berry College, which is in Rome, Georgia. And that's where I met my husband.
Laura Dugger: That's amazing. And you've had a great attitude throughout all of it. And it's been such a...
Jackie Coleman: Except for that one week that I didn't like my parents so much.
Laura Dugger: Maybe on Christmas Day. Understandable. But it's been a privilege to know you single and then married and now as a mom. So how has life changed for you since becoming a mother?
Jackie Coleman: Oh man, how has it not changed? I feel like everything has changed for me, from the work that I'm doing, from my sleep schedule, from the working out that I actually am not doing these days so much, just schedule literally everything, I feel like, is different.
Laura Dugger: Was that what you expected? [00:03:15]
Jackie Coleman: I honestly don't think that there was any way that pre-baby that I could anticipate what life would look like. Sometimes we look back, John and I are sitting on the couch as we're watching the kids, and we're like, "What was life like before?" And it's hard to remember that. But I think before you have kids it's almost impossible to think about what life will look like?
So, no, it wasn't until I held my son for the first time that my world got turned upside down and changed everything. My priorities changed, my heart changed, and it was totally unexpected.
Laura Dugger: That's amazing. And when you say your priorities changed, you were in a pretty unique and high-pressure job at the time. Were you expecting to continue being a working mom once you had children?
Jackie Coleman: Yes, that was the plan. [00:04:12] All throughout the pregnancy and into the first, probably first few weeks of my maternity leave, I was certainly expecting to go back, was starting to make the plans necessary to do that. And I just remember sitting at the kitchen table researching different child care options and sitting there in tears looking up at my husband and saying, "I can't do this. I can't do it."
So we had a lot of serious talks about what that would look like and the feasibility of that. We got to a point where that's what we did. And I'm so grateful. That was definitely where my heart was at and I'm so glad that we were on the same page.
Laura Dugger: You are in a very heavy lifting stage of parenting right now with three little ones. Can you share how are you nurturing friendships during this phase of life with littles at home?
Jackie Coleman: Yes, that's a great question. I find that it's an exhausting period of time. [00:05:15] So if I weren't intentional about friendship, I would tend to stay at home. Once the kids are down, I'd put on my PJs and climb into bed, probably. But in this phase of life, friendship is so important for my sanity, for my emotional engagement, for my intellectual engagement.
So there are a few things that I tend to do. One is that I have a few standing commitments. Some are weekly, some are monthly. These I don't back out of unless, you know, kid is sick, something more catastrophic. But these things are things that I expect. They're on my calendar. An example is I have a book club that I'll do once a month. It's so great for friendship. It's so great for my mind. It's just really interesting conversation every time that I go.
Another thing that I am committed to Bi-weekly is a small group. And this I will not cancel on unless, again, there's something more catastrophic going on. [00:06:22] Then also weekly potluck with my family. So that gets me out and with the kids and seeing cousins and my mom and brother sister nephews. So those are a few of the things that I will not cancel on and that I just expect every week.
Another thing I would say is just realizing the importance of proximity. In this phase of life, it is just not practical with nap times, with eating, with early bedtimes to drive, you know, 30 minutes to see a friend regularly. So I have been really intentional about developing a few key relationships right in my neighborhood.
One of my very best friends lives in our backyard, and our kids love playing together, which is such a blessing. I have another dear friend who lives a couple doors down. They're just some of my greatest friends and we see each other the most frequently because of the convenience of proximity. [00:07:31]
So there's definitely something to be said about that and just the practicality of this stage of life and how important that is. That also say that there are a few... probably two to three deep friendships that I will do the drive for. And that, when an opportunity comes to hang out or spend time together, I will make that a priority.
In this phase of life also, I think early on, I like having a lot of friends and it was fun to have light conversation. Right now I'm craving depth of friendship, and you can really only do that with a select few.
Laura Dugger: Great point. With those few, if they aren't close in proximity, practically speaking, how do you get out of the house or meet them if it is a bit of a drive?
Jackie Coleman: Occasionally, we'll meet up after the kids are asleep. My husband's really great about encouraging me to get out in the evening. And it's hard to get myself. geared up to go and muster the energy to go. But I never regret it. [00:08:43]
We've had a couple of pottery dates or we just meet up for a late dinner. So that's an easier way to do it. We often will get together with a huge group of the kids. There are two friends that I'm thinking of in particular and we'll do just a park play date or just a way that the kids can be engaged, but we can also connect on a friend level. So we'll do that.
Probably I would say we get together once every two weeks and make that a priority even though we're not living all that close.
Laura Dugger: That makes sense. And are these friends that you're talking about that aren't close proximity, are these friends that you've had since before you were a mom?
Jackie Coleman: Yes. One is a friend that was from pre-mom stage, and then she introduced me to this other friend once we had kids. So our friendship has evolved over the years, which is really special.
Laura Dugger: Definitely. So you've got a history with them, and then meeting up every couple weeks, you can just pick up where you left off. [00:09:46]
Jackie Coleman: Yes, yes. It's really, really special.
Laura Dugger: I love your creative solutions, that you're still able to make friendships a priority when a lot of people would say this is a really difficult stage to be doing that. What would you say to other moms who might be listening and maybe they're in a similar season, but they feel guilty about connecting with friends because they're wondering if that's going to be taking away time from them being with their own kids?
Jackie Coleman: Sure. I would say a couple things about that. Mom guilt is real. You can feel it, but it's important not to internalize it. You can feel it about basically anything. I do. When it comes to feeding your soul as a mom, as a person, as an individual, I would say that's a non-negotiable.
I know for me I am a much better mom when I feel like I have a little bit of time carved out that's for me. [00:10:50] Whether it's downtime or with a friend. I think you're doing yourself and your kids a service by feeding your emotional and your spiritual intellectual, sometimes your physical needs. I would say that.
I would also say there are some creative ways to also include the kids and let them have a blast while you're also having a blast with moms. I sometimes do this by organizing, maybe it's a large park play date with a bunch of moms from our little preschool. So we'll get like five or six moms together and a whole slew of kids, sometimes we'll get a Chick-fil-A platter or we'll get some ice cream and let the kids just have a blast. And they are having way more fun, I can guarantee you, than if they were just home with me. [00:11:47]
Then I also get the engagement of a number of moms that I probably wouldn't see unless we did something like that.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that is such great wisdom and you're taking care of everybody at that point. It's a win for everyone both examples that you gave. I love it.
Jackie Coleman: Thanks.
Laura Dugger: So another question I have for you is how do you practice self-care as a mom?
Jackie Coleman: Well, it's easy to let this fall by the wayside unless you are very thoughtful about it. I would say I'm very grateful to my husband who is incredibly encouraging of me going out and having some time, whether that's on a weekend or once the kids are in bed. I'll also say he is very busy and he does travel a lot, but he's also encouraging me getting a babysitter probably much more frequently than I would ever allow myself to do if it were just me. But he knows how important that is. [00:12:50]
So having someone that's supportive, whether it's a friend that can encourage you to maybe think along those lines, your husband, a mom, just someone in your support network that can be looking out for your well-being. Because I know a lot of times we as moms will sacrifice our well-being for our kids. So it's just important to get those reminders sometimes. So I'm so appreciative to him that he's often saying, "Why don't you go? Go out. Let's let you have some time." So that's one way.
And I realize also that finances might not make that conducive for some, like budgetary constraints, but there are also ways that I have found in the home that I can recharge. We have a workout room downstairs. I did joke at the beginning that I have not been working out, which is the truth. There is a workout room downstairs that I have used in the past that if I just... you know, whether John's traveling, I just need to let off some steam. You know, I can go down there. [00:13:53]
You know, watching a TV show and not feeling guilty about the pile of laundry that's sitting next to you. I do that, too. You know, just knowing yourself and knowing what you need. So there are some ways that you can fulfill those kind of need for self-care in your own home, too. It's not necessarily that you have to spend money on a babysitter to get out, but you can take the time at your house, too.
Laura Dugger: I love that. And there's something unique that you've always done, and it's a once-a-year treat. Can you tell us more about that?
Jackie Coleman: I would love to tell you about this. It's one of my favorite things. Once a year at Christmas time, my one request for a gift is that I get one night away in a hotel room. My husband sets it up. And it is just the most amazing time where I know I have 24 hours to read a book, to soak in a tub, to just have some time to sleep. [00:14:56] It's my favorite gift. I think that I'm so grateful that I get to do that once a year.
There has been an occasion where I invited a friend and that was so fun. And then there are times that I just crave to be by myself. So it's a great, great gift that I'm so grateful for.
Laura Dugger: That's awesome. Again, another creative solution, and I love that it can just fill your tank for such a long time. I've witnessed you interacting with your kids, and it does seem to always come from such a full place.
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Every item supports women, education, and fair trade in areas of need. To browse their collection and learn more, check out their website, fairandsimple.com. Thanks for your sponsorship.
Switching gears here, so you're a working mom. For you personally, what does your work-life balance look like?
Jackie Coleman: Well, I was working in the education realm, but more on a policy level. Now I'm actually in the classroom, which is a total switch. I'm teaching at my daughter's preschool, so I'm teaching pre-K, and I am loving it. It's an amazing opportunity that allows me to have a work outlet while at the same time being on the same exact schedule as my kids. So it's a really unique opportunity to have a little bit of my feet in both worlds, I would say. [00:16:53]
So I think like being open to the fact that your desires can change and there's nothing wrong with that. Just being aware of what you're needing and wanting in different seasons and then just trying to figure out how that fits in with your current life and responsibilities.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that's well said. So you can relate to all kinds of moms out there. I love that. And for years, you and your husband have both had an interest in reviewing how other people are balancing this and have even published an article. Is that right?
Jackie Coleman: Yes. Actually, got a book deal writing on how dual career couple can stay happy. And the funniest thing is, as we were drafting this book, our son was just a few months old. And I remember looking at my husband and saying, "This isn't going to work. We are so unbalanced right now. We are not being true to what we're saying." [00:17:54]
So we ended up giving up that book deal just because life was too full. And we knew that we couldn't juggle all the balls that were being thrown at us. So that was an interesting twist on that opportunity. But we did write an article on how couples can stay happy amidst a lot of work and life pressure.
But most recently John has written an article that has revolutionized the way that I at least have thought about work and life and the balance of the two. And he basically is saying that there's a work and a life component to basically every area of life. It doesn't have to be that work is confined to an office. And life is confined to the joyful part the fun and engaging family and extracurricular. [00:18:52]
What he's saying is basically there is work and life to both. For example, in a job there are things that you really enjoy doing that bring life to you and fulfillment, but there are also parts of your job that you don't like. Maybe that's filling out your timesheets, maybe that's you know doing a certain type of report, I don't know.
And then as a mom there is so much that brings me joy, from finding the things that give my children the giggles to, you know, reading a book to them to hearing their thoughts about the day, talking about their highs and lows. But there is the work component of being at home. There is changing of the diapers, you know, there's the tantrums, there's just a lot of difficult things as well.
So he said that it's important to find and maximize your joyful and your purposeful areas of both work and life and that through that you can flourish. [00:19:58] So I just love that. And that's how I think about a lot of the things that we both engage in and making sure that we're maximizing kind of the purpose in what we're doing and the joyful aspects of what we're doing.
Laura Dugger: That is fascinating. I love that concept. Thank you for sharing. We'll make sure and[00:20:24] [00:20:24] [00:20:18] get a link posted for our show notes so that you can read John's most recent article.
Jackie Coleman: And there will be no link to the book about how dual career couples stay happy because it doesn't exist.
Laura Dugger: Hey, friends, I just wanted to give you a quick reminder that we're asking for ratings and reviews on whatever platform you use to listen to this podcast. If you would be willing, could you also hit subscribe to the podcast and share this with a friend? Thanks for listening. Now back to the show.
As we keep going here, it seems like each season presents some unique challenges along with some wonderful yet temporary gifts. So what would you say you're loving right now in your current season? [00:21:01]
Jackie Coleman: I would have to say the stage of life that my kids are in right now is just so fun. I love hearing their thoughts, playing with them. My son says these amazing prayers that just bring tears to my eyes, literally. I mean, that sounds cheesy, but it's just beautiful to hear his heart.
Reading longer chapter books is really fun, instead of the Where Is Baby's Belly Button? 15,000 times. But what's so interesting is I will often, once they're asleep, will flip through old photos. We have like 10,000 photos on Dropbox, and I'll just flip back to when they were really little. And it's just so crazy to me how quickly time has flown by from those stages. And when you're in it, it just feels like it's never ending. And it's wonderful, but there are a lot of things that are hard about it. [00:22:07]
And I guess it just reminds me that I really want to enjoy every phase that we're in because every moment just seems so fleeting. I was reading, I guess it was a blog post about you just never know when you're going to experience the last of something with the kids, whether that's the last snuggle in your rocking chair or the last time they stuck their thumb or, you know, all these last moments.
It just made me think about all the times that I have experienced less and not even realize that it was the last time that they're going to do something or need something from me. I don't want to miss moments by wishing for the next. I certainly did that much too frequently. When the kids were really little, we had them so close together. So they're 17 months apart and it just feels like that stage was such a blur. [00:23:05]
In that time my dad got sick. Like very sick. He got pancreatic cancer. And just that stage was so painful and so exhausting that I just couldn't wait for relief. But now looking back, I just see how quickly time is going by. So I just don't want to ever take these moments for granted, even the tantrum-y ones.
Laura Dugger: That's a really, really great point. You have such a great perspective. And no doubt going through challenges has helped shape your grateful heart. Some people might hear this podcast today and just think, "Oh, she's got it together and life is so easy," but you've had your share of difficulties too. And you were alluding to it there. Can you elaborate on that season when your dad got sick and what's helped you through this grieving process?
Jackie Coleman: Yeah, I'm sure. That season does feel like an incredible blur. [00:24:06] Got pregnant when my son was seven months old. So just, you know, a time where you want to be very hands-on. I was exhausted. I was really sick for about five months during that pregnancy. And then had my daughter and she was such an easy baby. So I can't even blame it on her because she was awesome. She was so copacetic, smiley, giggly. But just having them close together.
My son was a late walker. Just was very physically taxing. It took a lot of strategy that you can think about getting them in a car and to go anywhere. And then my dad got sick around six months when my daughter... I mean when my daughter was six months old and it took all hands on deck, from my husband being incredible and watching the kids so I could spend overnights in hospice with my dad.
Then my dad fought a really hard fight but pancreatic cancer, it was too late in the game and he died. [00:25:15] It was very shortly after, two days after that, that my son was admitted to the hospital for some... they didn't even know what was wrong. He was just holding his head funny. He had a Pre-abscess in his neck, it turned out in mono. So he's fighting two big things. Ended up staying in the hospital for a week.
So I remember getting ready for my dad's funeral in the hospital and I just thought, "It can't get worse than this. It can't get worse than this." But all the while, despite such hardship from all these unknowns with my son being in the hospital to losing my dad, faith was the anchor. Because I had so many people reminding me of the truth, of the biblical truths and pouring into me and listening to me wail.
So I'm so grateful that I had a support network and they... gosh, just from family to friends just really got me through such a tremendously painful time. [00:26:21]
And even there, from that point, I feel like my faith has deepened. Just walking through that experience with my dad, hearing the things he said right up at the end, watching his faith was so incredibly strong, even despite facing probably the scariest and worst diagnosis that I could think of. So I'm so grateful for my faith. Otherwise, I think I would have probably withered.
Laura Dugger: I am so glad I was able to meet your dad. He was an incredible man. What were some of those things you said you learned from his faith, even in those last days? What were some of the things that he said that you really cherish?
Jackie Coleman: Sure. He had four principles that he lived by. He wrote these out before he got sick. So these were truly principles that he lived by. And the first is to trust God. [00:27:21] The second is: expect a miracle. The third is: never take a single moment for granted. And the fourth is: be anxious for nothing.
Now, I do these very imperfectly, but they are posted on my refrigerator as a daily reminder to heed these wise words that my dad got from the Bible, from sermons, from just his own faith. So I try to put those into practice daily.
And then also the things that he said right up until the end, his faith never wavered. He was desperate to go with Jesus. He saw amazing things that I know were so authentic. I think it was just his excitement about the next step, which is so scary to me. Death is so scary and unknown to me, but watching him kind of it was almost like he was going between these two worlds, it was so exciting to him and it made it so exciting for me to think about what might be next. [00:28:41]
So it took kind of this like fear and anxiety out of death and more of a curiosity for me. Now, I can't say that I'm excited about it yet, but I just got to witness things that I think aren't natural. And it was just such a beautiful and painful time, but I am so grateful for that experience.
Laura Dugger: Jackie, you have walked well through so many difficulties. Honored to get a watch you do that well. And just to even hear your faith strengthening through all that, it's miraculous.
Jackie Coleman: Thank you.
Laura Dugger: Expecting a miracle.
Jackie Coleman: Yes.
Laura Dugger: Well, and as we conclude today, I saved our most lighthearted topic for last.
Jackie Coleman: Okay.
Laura Dugger: So we would all love to hear your practical tips that each of us can emulate beginning today. So what is your savvy sauce as a mom? [00:29:40]
Jackie Coleman: My savvy sauce. I'm going to start with probably the most lighthearted and maybe ridiculous, but we'll just start there. I have to say, this day and age, convenience is at our fingertips. It's just amazing. As moms of these little, amazing young children, we should use these conveniences unabashedly.
So some of the things that I do, I love getting my groceries delivered to my front door before 7 a.m. once a week. It is just such a gift to not have to bring my children to the grocery store, which I have never liked going to the grocery store as we have talked about a few times. It is just probably my least favorite place in the world.
I have an Amazon Fresh subscription, so that just saves me about two hours a week. One other thing, from early, early on, I've tried to encourage my children to engage in independent play. [00:30:47] And I know this is where a lot of mom guilt can come in. I know I feel it, and I have to kind of talk myself out of it sometimes, where we want to be engaging with them or entertaining them. But really, it's so good for them to do their own thing and to get lost in their little world. But it also allows me a little bit of time to get dinner done or laundry folded while they play. So we have lots of playtime together, but this is a skill that I've tried to teach them, I guess.
A small thing, I think often I was catching myself calling them if I needed them to do something or if they were in trouble. I just noticed that they would associate... it almost seems like when I called their name, they would associate with something negative. So I really try to have something positive to say or an encouragement or a treat or just something. Because kids are just pros at selective listening, I have found. [00:31:45]
Laura Dugger: So true.
Jackie Coleman: So giving them a reason to listen and perk up when you call their name, I've just tried to do that. Now, my daughter has a very spicy personality. So we have a chair that we call the whining chair. So she has a penchant for whining. She's just a pro. So when she starts to rev up with the whining, she goes to the chair. So it's not allowed in any other place but the chair. And now it's to the point where she said, "But I don't want the chair." And I'll say, "Well, you have to stop whining." And she will. Sometimes. Sometimes I will say. It's not perfect. But that's been really helpful to have a space that she will go to when that starts to rev up.
I would also say that we are so grateful that we have a church that feeds both us and our kids, that we love going to. We actually were attending a church before the one that we're at right now that our kids did not enjoy going to. You know, it's so important for our kids to love church. And they ask. They ask midweek. They're like, "Are we going to church today?" [00:32:56]
That does my heart so good. But we also get fed. So I think finding a church home that is good for the entire family has been great for us. Let's see, I am wanting to... I just read this in a book recently, Ben Sasse's book called, I think, The Vanishing American Adult, which was a really fascinating read.
But one of his big suggestions is to build a bookshelf for your kids and be really thoughtful about the books and the messaging and the ideas that you want them to read over time. One way that I've done that, there's this incredible book that's called Honey for a Child's Heart. And it has so many different reading lists for the different ages for the different genres of book. So we are building a list and slowly building a bookshelf for our kids of books that we want them to read now and as they age. [00:33:55] So I think those are just a few thoughts on some of the areas that I feel savvy.
Laura Dugger: Absolutely. No, that is an incredible list. I need to take notes on all of these. We'll have to put those books in the show notes as well if anybody's interested in looking into those to building their own bookshelf for their kids.
Jackie, you are just a wealth of wisdom. I hope that every individual listener is going to leave today as inspired as I have been through this conversation. You are just one of the most caring people I've ever known. Every time I'm around you, I feel like I learn something new. So thank you for sharing your savvy ways with us today.
Jackie Coleman: Laura, thank you so much for having me. This was a blast.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. [00:34:57] But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. [00:36:01] Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. [00:37:07] Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Tuesday Oct 23, 2018
Tuesday Oct 23, 2018
22. Inspiring Your Children to Be Readers, Part 2 with Blogger, Megan Kaeb
**Transcription Below**
Psalm 121:1+2 (NIV) “I lift up my eyes to the hills- where does my help come from? My help comes from the LORD, the Maker of heaven and earth.”
An avid reader and founder of the blog, Young Book Love, Megan Kaeb is passionate about inspiring kids to love books and reading. She is a faithful Christ-follower, wife, and mother to six.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Connect with Megan on Instagram @youngbooklove
Book List from Megan Kaeb:
Books for Readers 4 and up (the Newest of the New Readers)
Fly Guy Books by Tedd Arnold:
Hi! Fly Guy
Piggie and Elephant Books by Mo Willems:
Piggie and Elephant (Complete Collection)
Books for Readers 6 and up
Mercy Watson (Boxed Set) by Kate DiCamillo
Captain Awesome (Boxed Set) by Stan Kirby
Frankie Pickle Series by Eric Wight:
Frankie Pickle and Mathematical Menace
Frankie Pickle and the Pine Run 3000
Frankie Pickle and the Closet of Doom
Princess in Black Collection 4-Book Set by Shannon Hale
Gone Fishing: A Novel in Verse by Tamera Will Wissinger
Babe the Gallant Pig by Dick King-Smith
Books for Readers 8 and up
The Penderwicks Series by Jeanne Birdsall
The Tale of Desperaux by Kate DiCamillo
Because of Winn Dixie by Kate DiCamillo
Danny Champion of the World by Roald Dahl
The Mysterious Benedict Society by Trenton Lee Stewart
Inside Out and Back Again by Thanhha Lai
Number the Stars by Lois Lowry
The Incorrigible Children of Ashton Place by Maryrose Wood
Books for Readers 10 and up
The False Prince by Jennifer A. Nielsen
The Wednesday Wars by Gary D. Schmidt
Christian Heroes Then and Now Series by Janet and Geoff Benge
The Detective’s Assistant by Kate Hannigan
The Bronze Bow by Elizabeth George Speare
Full Cicada Moon by Marilyn Hilton
The Wingfeather Saga Series by Andrew Peterson
Boys in a Boat (young reader’s edition) by Daniel James Brown
Books for Readers 12 and up
Turning 15 on the Road to Freedom by Elspeth Leacock
The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom
Chains (The Seeds of America Trilogy) by Laurie Halse Anderson
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith
The Notorious Benedict Arnold by Steve Sheinkin
Helpful Sites to Read Book Reviews
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Hey friends, did you know you can make your own customizable board book for a very reasonable price? I came across this idea years ago, and I've made special board books for each of my daughters with Pint Size Productions.
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Hey everyone, we're back for part two with Megan Kaeb. Megan is a voracious reader and loves to inspire others to read and grow as well. And a fun fact that you all may not know is that Megan and I are second cousins. Here's our chat about book recommendations for various ages and ways to make reading fit into your family schedule. [00:01:20]
Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Megan.
Megan Kaeb: Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Laura Dugger: Well, in case anyone didn't hear you last time, can you just tell us a bit about your background?
Megan Kaeb: Sure. My name is Megan. I have been married to my husband, Cory, for 19 years. We have six kids that range in age from 9 years old to 14. Back in November, I started a blog called youngbooklove.com which is all about helping parents discover great books that their kids will fall for. I have been an avid reader all of my life. It is my favorite thing to do. I'm pretty much always in the middle of a book.
Laura Dugger: That's incredible. And last time you gave us so many great nuggets. And today we're going to just dive right in to your specific book lists, which we will also link to more in the show notes. [00:02:17] But can you just share a few of your favorites?
Megan Kaeb: Sure. But this is really hard because I have so many favorites. There are so many good ones out there. But I will try to narrow it down to just a few. And if you want more good ones, you can head on over to the blog.
We'll go by age. Starting with the newest of new readers, so kids who are just learning how to read, a few ideas for good books, probably my favorite book for that age is the book Go, Dog. Go! by P.D. Eastman. It's the first book several of my kids read for the first time like all on their own. And it's just, it's great pictures. It's a classic. It's just a really great book.
Just a couple other ideas for that age though would be Piggie and Elephant books are so much fun and Fly Guy books are also really fun books for that age.
For readers six and up who have maybe mastered the basics and are kind of looking to move away from the early reader books, wanting to get into more chapter books, but maybe not quite ready for the bigger chapter books, Mercy Watson by Kate DiCamillo is one of my very favorite books. [00:03:32] I feel like these are great... they're great early chapter book. They have tons of fun pictures. The stories are hilarious and so well written. And they are a great book for your early readers as well as your older readers.
When my second grader was reading these out loud to me, my 12-year-old was hovering over our shoulder listening as well. And then when we were done, he picked it up himself to read through. They're just so great for those newer readers, but also for readers of any age.
A few other books that are really good for that age group, the early chapter books. Princess in Black is a great one. Frankie Pickle is really fun. That's a little bit part graphic novel, but also just early chapter book. Captain Awesome is another really fun series for kids.
Moving on up to like readers eight and up... and this category, yeah, I just feel like when I say eight and up, I really mean and up. [00:04:34] Like this is not just for eight-year-olds. Some of my very favorites. Kate DiCamillo again, she is one of my favorite authors. The Tale of Despereaux is an excellent book. She also wrote Because of Winn-Dixie, which is another one of my favorites of hers.
The Penderwicks is a book by Jeannie Birdsall, and it's about four sisters and kind of just their adventures together. The writing is amazing. The stories are so good. The first one I did not love as much as the second and the third and the fourth. I feel like it's one of those books, that as you just get to know the characters, you just grow to love them. They feel like family almost, and so you want to keep reading. But I love The Penderwicks.
Roald Dahl's books are so much fun. The BFG and Danny, the Champion of the World are two of my favorites of his. But he's written a lot that people are so familiar with. He's a classic author, a classic kids' author for sure.
One more for this age range, although, like I said, there are so many good ones to choose from. [00:05:39] The Mysterious Benedict Society is another one of my favorite books. It's just a good adventure story. It's about kids doing hard things and saving the world. Each of the characters in it are just so much fun and unique and easy to connect with. It's just a really good book.
So readers 10 and up, so this is older elementary, maybe moving into junior high. There's a series called The False Prince series, and it's just a really fun adventure. Actually, it's not The False Prince. The first book is The False Prince. It's really a fun adventure book. It's a page-turner. It's hard to put down. So even for kids who maybe are not the biggest readers, I think if they would start this book, it would hook them and be hard to put down.
The Wednesday Wars is a book that is one of my very favorites ever. It makes me laugh and it makes me cry. It tackles some tougher subjects, but it just does it in such a really... I don't know, just a good way. [00:06:42] It's a boy who, during the Vietnam War, Wednesday afternoons, he finds himself alone with his teacher, Mrs. Baker, who he thinks hates him because half of his class is Catholic and goes to one class in the afternoon and the other half of his class is Jewish and goes to another class in the afternoon.
So he's alone with his teacher and she starts to teach him Shakespeare. I don't know, just the way Shakespeare interacts with his life, the way his teacher interacts with his life, some of the harder things going on in his home against the backdrop of the Vietnam War. It's just really an amazing book. One of my very favorites.
A good nonfiction series is called Christian Heroes: Then & Now. This is one of my favorites to recommend. They are biographies about men and women of faith over the years and just telling their stories. They're amazing stories. People like George Mueller, Mary Schleser, Corrie Ten Boom, there's just a ton of missionaries included in this series. [00:07:45] Cory and I, my husband, we love reading these as well. They're so faith strengthening and they're just really excellent books.
Laura Dugger: Your passion is incredible and completely contagious. I can't wait to get some of these. Then as a parent, how do you find time to monitor these book options for your tweens especially?
Megan Kaeb: That's a good question because I have some avid readers and there is no way I can keep up with them because they are constantly reading a book. With my oldest, we will talk a lot about it and she... I trust her because she has come to me at times and been like, "This book had this in it." And she's even given up on books before, which again, that just builds my trust in her.
But there are ways that you can see a little bit about what content might be in a book without actually reading it. One trick is to check on Amazon. If you find the one and two-star reviews of different books, a lot of times, those will list inappropriate items found in the book. [00:08:53]
Like a lot of times the reason why people did not like them is because of certain things that were in the book and so they will list them there. Sometimes I think if you just look for those one and two-star reviews and read them, sometimes you don't learn anything new but sometimes you can.
Then there are also really good websites plugged in from Focus on the Family will do book reviews. And Common Sense Media has a lot of book reviews where they will read books for content and they will list the positive elements, the negative elements. I think those are great resources for parents just kind of wanting to get an idea of what kind of content is in a book.
Laura Dugger: That is extremely helpful. And for a listener today that's wondering, where can I start if I have a child of any age, but they don't like to read?
Megan Kaeb: I think the best place to start is to read out loud together. Find a good book, maybe a book that you loved as a kid and want to revisit, or just get a recommendation from someone. [00:09:55] Check out my blog and find a book that looks good to you and sit down and read together.
Read a chapter out loud before bed. And you can even tell him, "Hey, you can stay up a little later if you will listen to me read this book to you." However, you want to sell it. I think that is the best way to start.
Another thing, a little trick that sometimes works is to read the first book of the series out loud, but not read the second. If the first book really grabs a hold of them, then that might be the motivation. Just they want to find out what happens with these characters. So they might pick up the second or third or fourth book on their own then.
Laura Dugger: Ooh, those are really creative ideas as well. Last time in our previous episode, you had even mentioned audiobooks and that it's okay if our children are coloring or doing something quietly while we're reading. I mean, I think of myself, I'm a podcast junkie, and I listen best when I'm folding laundry or doing dishes or engaged in some activity. [00:10:59] That can free us up that our children are still listening or still enjoying when we're reading aloud, like you mentioned, even if it doesn't appear that way.
Do you have any other creative ideas to get kids to listen or to enjoy reading more?
Megan Kaeb: Well, one idea, just to even get them to maybe branch out to different books that they might not necessarily try, one of my kids' fourth-grade teachers created a bingo board where like in each of the squares, she would list different genres of books. So she might have graphic novels, which are what my boys want to read all the time in one, but then to get a bingo, they might also have to read historical fiction, they might have to read poetry, they might have to read just a book of their choice.
So even as a parent you could kind of create your own bingo board and offer incentives for if they get a bingo, let them pick a prize or let them get a, I don't know... you could even pay them. I have paid my kids sometimes to read books that I feel like were really important. [00:12:07] I don't do it often, but every once in a while, hey, if it gets them to read a book, that is money well spent in my mind.
I would also say, like over the summer especially, but even... I don't know, with video games and computer games and screens having such a pull on my kids, my boys especially, a lot of times they will have to read a certain amount of minutes. Like I've even heard of people, "You have to read 30 minutes to earn 30 minutes of screen time." So there's a lot of different ways to motivate kids just even by using... I don't know, I guess it's bribery. I don't know, some things are worth bribing, maybe.
Laura Dugger: I think, real picture, parents all bribe.
Megan Kaeb: So, yeah. And when I'm reading aloud, like I said, if they want to do a puzzle, or even if... like I have one kid that just, he has to move more. And I know he's still listening even if he's walking around, as long as it's not too distracting for the other kids. I think the key is to just be flexible and to realize that even if it doesn't feel like they're picking it up, I think they pick up a lot more. [00:13:16] I don't know, just even if they're not maybe looking like they're paying attention, they really are still. So being flexible is important as a mom.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that's good for so many areas.
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Laura Dugger: You have a large family and yet you've created these meaningful times to connect and to read. So can you just share with us what is your family schedule?
Megan Kaeb: Well, during the school year, obviously they're in school. My younger three get home around 2.30. And we have a rule at our house that no screens are allowed during the weekdays. So after school, they have to do homework, which a lot of times includes reading. [00:15:24] And so, yeah, I have some kids who are motivated to do that right after school, and some would rather do their reading right before bed.
So yeah, once they get home from school, then it's kind of a quiet time until the older kids get home. This stage in life, honestly, I feel like we're on the go so much more. Older kids need driven places for practices or picked up from practices or track meets or cross-country meets or whatever. Even carving out time to read is a little harder. But that's where audiobooks can also come in. We will listen to stories in our car as we're driving around. So there are definitely ways to continue to incorporate that. But this is a stage of life where I am a chauffeuring mom. I feel like I am the chauffeur and I'm driving my kids all over the place.
Laura Dugger: Well, I love that you've solved that problem with audiobooks and then talking about them with your kids. That's a great idea. Is there any scripture that is currently inspiring you in your work or even in your family life?
Megan Kaeb: Well, I feel like lately I've been spending a lot of time in the Psalms. And specifically I have been reading the Psalms of Ascent and just kind of studying those a little bit on my own. [00:16:35] So just thinking of a chapter that's meaningful, Psalm 1:21, which talks a lot about how God is our protector and how He watches over us, how He watches over our comings and goings, and how He will keep us from all harm.
But I think, too, with that, like, I don't necessarily think that He keeps us from all harm physically, but that He will kind of protect our hearts and minds. So I don't know, just... and that's a prayer over my kids, that the Lord is with them like this Psalm promises, and that He will protect them, but even more important than their physical bodies, my prayer is that He will protect their hearts and minds from being deceived, that it will keep the truth in the front of their minds and just keep them close to Him.
So yeah, Psalm 1:21, "I lift up my eyes to the hills, where does my help come from? My help comes from the Lord, the maker of heaven and earth." Those words have spoken a lot into my life over the last few months.
Laura Dugger: Oh, thank you for sharing that because you and I both share a love of books and would definitely say the Bible is our all-time favorite book, all-time bestseller as well. [00:17:53] And yet it's still helpful to hear how other stories can be incorporated into the family system.
So is there any other topic related to your blog or reading that you would love to share with listeners today?
Megan Kaeb: I just would encourage you to just have lots of good books around and to be reading them yourself. Even if you don't read them out loud to your kids, I would encourage you to read a lot of the books that your kids are reading too so that you have something to talk to them about.
And even some of the harder books or books that maybe have some inappropriate material as your kids get older, they just give you a chance to talk about some of those harder things with your older kids, which I think is really important. So yeah, I would encourage you to read books on your own, with your kids. I don't know. I love how books can make us feel that we are not alone and that they can just teach us and inspire us. [00:18:53] I don't know, there's so much good in getting our kids to be readers.
There's a quote by Dr. Richard Noble that says, "If you want to be a leader, you've got to be a reader." And I think that is very true. I think leaders who are well-read, that they have been exposed to a lot of different perspectives, gives them empathy for other people. I just think it's a true statement. I want my kids to be leaders, and I want them to be readers as well.
Laura Dugger: There's so much wisdom in what you just shared. And even breaking that down to a practical level, to go back, when you mentioned sometimes there is inappropriate messages or language or something in books, is there anything that you would particularly recommend parents to guard their children from in books? Let's talk specifically about maybe tweens and teens.
Megan Kaeb: I hate this, but I just feel like there are more sex scenes and stuff like that in some of these books for young adults. [00:19:58] I just think that that's hard. That's stuff that I don't want my kids reading yet. I mean, it's not healthy for me to read things like that as well. It's just more prevalent than what I wish it was.
And even violence too. I feel like though with violence, somehow... like I'm thinking of the books called The Hunger Games, which I really like those books, but there is violence in them, but yet it's portrayed in a way that is negative. So even from that, I feel like there are some learning experiences.
But I think when there is more sex and stuff like that in books, that stuff gets in your mind and it's harder to get out. So that kind of stuff, especially, I want to guard my kids against or at least be able to talk about with them about why it's important to guard.
So even if they do read something and I catch it later, if we can have a conversation about it and why it's important to guard against that and how that made them feel and just different things like that, you can still turn maybe that negative into something positive into a learning experience. I think that's the hard stuff. [00:21:08]
Laura Dugger: That's really wise and I love that you shared that. I think that's really smart to have protection in that area. Can you share again the name of your blog so that listeners can connect with you further?
Megan Kaeb: Sure. My blog is youngbooklove.com. You can search by age, by genre to find books that you think your kids might connect with. I try to just put the ones that I really loved on there or that I think other people would love too. There are so many good ones out there to choose from, but there's just so many books to choose from too. Going to the library can feel overwhelming. So I'm trying to help parents sift through and find the gold nugget books that will really connect with their kids and hopefully encourage them to keep reading.
Laura Dugger: Well, you've done a fantastic job and we all just appreciate so much the work that you've put in for us.
Megan Kaeb: Oh, I forgot to mention too I am on Instagram and so that would be a way to follow along as well. I try to be fairly active on that platform. It's just @youngbooklove. [00:22:18]
Laura Dugger: Hey, friends. I just wanted to give you a quick reminder that we're asking for ratings and reviews on whatever platform you use to listen to this podcast. If you would be willing, could you also hit subscribe to the podcast and share this with a friend? Thanks for listening. Now back to the show.
I have one question yet for you today because some people don't know that "savvy" in our name, the definition is practical knowledge or discernment. So will you leave us with the answer to one final question? Megan, what is your savvy sauce?
Megan Kaeb: Sure. Well, last time I talked about how naps and quiet time for kids are super important. And just to kind of add on to that a little, when my kids are having their quiet time during the day, I've kind of made it a rule for myself that I can't use this time to just get more done around the house or whatever, that I need to use this time to recharge my own batteries. [00:23:17] For me, this usually means reading a book, but for others, it could be a lot of different things.
When I have those breaks, I feel no guilt to pick up a book and just to read for a little bit. I feel like I am a better mom, then when that quiet time is over and they come back down. If I've had time to do something that kind of recharges me, then I'm a better mom for them for the rest of the day.
So I would say don't feel guilty to sit down and read a book or do something that refuels you and fills you up because that is super important. We don't always have to be about getting the next thing done. We need to take some time for ourselves too.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that is very well said, and definitely a challenge that I want to take on starting today. Thank you again for coming back. Two great episodes with you, Megan. And I hope that everybody gets to check out your blog. It is such a blessing to so many people. [00:24:19] So keep up your good work, and thanks again for joining us today.
Megan Kaeb: You bet, Laura. This was really fun. Thanks for having me.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. [00:25:19] Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. [00:26:18]
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. [00:27:18]
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Oct 22, 2018
Monday Oct 22, 2018
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <music>
Laura Dugger: Hi everybody! Today we get to hear from someone who is devoted to inspiring young people to become readers. Megan Kaeb is the founder of the blog, Young Book Love, and she is joining us today to discuss ways to create an atmosphere in our home that encourages a love of learning and reading. I love this chat and I hope you do too.
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Hey, Megan.
Megan Kaeb: Hey, Laura.
Laura Dugger: So excited to get a chat with you today. Can you just start off by telling us more about yourself?
Megan Kaeb: Sure, I'd love to. My name is Megan Kaeb. I've been married to my husband, Cory, for 19 years and we have six kids. Our oldest is 14, almost 15, a freshman in high school. We have twin boys who are almost 12. They are in sixth grade right now. We have two fourth graders and a third grader.
Our youngest two kids are adopted. We brought them home from China, one about five years ago and one about eight years ago. Actually, there is two months of the year when our youngest three are the same age. So it's almost like we've got one and then twins and then triplets in a way.
They're all kind of jammed in there age-wise, but it's really fun watching them interact together. I mean, they're good friends, and they play well together. It's fun having a big family. [00:02:28]
I'm an adoptive mom. I'm also a special needs mom. Our younger have cerebral palsy and just have some physical issues. One needs a walker, they both wear braces. But yeah, that's kind of where we're at in life. This age of my kids is so fun. They're independent and they still think we're cool and they like being around us. I'm really loving this stage of momhood.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that is awesome. I love hearing that they still think you're cool. That's great.
Megan Kaeb: Yeah.
Laura Dugger: You have recently launched your own blog called Young Book Love. Let's just start off, why do you believe that stories matter?
Megan Kaeb: Well, I think they matter for a lot of reasons. I feel like when we read good stories they help us feel like we're not alone, which I think right there is just huge. [00:03:26] They expose us to different perspectives, different points of view, they can entertain us and inspire us.
I also think stories help connect. My mom would tell us stories even just from her own childhood growing up. My husband is a really good storyteller. Our twins are Simon and Jonah and so he will tell our kids Jamone and Sona stories which are basically stories of his childhood that are extremely embellished and they are a highlight of my ki... Like whenever we have campfires or whatever, they're always asking for Jamone and Sona stories. So I feel like just even our personal stories offer us a way to connect.
Then I also think Jesus Himself used stories all the time to get his point across. And somehow I feel like stories just... we remember them more, we connect with them emotionally. And so they just, I don't know... they just hit us in a place where facts and figures just can't necessarily reach. [00:04:29]
Laura Dugger: Wow, that is so well said. And will you just walk us through the journey? What led you to start your own blog?
Megan Kaeb: Well, years ago when my kids were little, I used to have a personal blog and I always enjoyed just the creative outlet. That was more just a motherhood blog, like sharing stories of my kids with friends. I tried to make it a little more than just like all about us. I wanted it to be an encouragement too. But I don't know, I just enjoyed writing.
Also about that time, I started working, started as a volunteer and eventually joined staff for a ministry called Hearts at Home and I was their publishing director for over 10 years. I guess the more and more I got involved with Hearts kind of the less and less I blogged and wrote because that job... I mean when you have a big family and you don't have as much margin for outside jobs, at least I don't. [00:05:31]
Anyway, so with Hearts, I love my job there. I love that I could kind of have a piece of the book publishing world, like work in that a little bit, but still be focused on what I consider my main job of being a mom. And I love the people I got to work with.
About two or three years ago, I just kind of started feeling God prompting my heart that my time at Hearts was coming to a close but I just wasn't quite ready to give it up. But then about a year ago, or a year and a half ago, Hearts was going through some financial issues and they had to dissolve my position. So God kind of like said, "Okay, I kind of told you before it's time for you to move on from there."
That was really hard because I loved my job there but at the same time, I could feel God in it and felt peaceful about that transition. So then I all of a sudden had a little bit more time on my hands. My kids are all in public school. So when they're at school I have the days to myself. And I just kind of started praying about what was next. [00:06:42]
I have always loved books. I have been an avid reader since I was a kid. I love reading middle-grade fiction as an adult and talking to my kids about it and trying to find books that they like to read. I also have a lot of friends who will ask me, just be like, "Hey Megan, I'm looking for this kind of a book for my kid. Do you have any ideas?
So just kind of combining all of that, I don't know, I just kind of got the idea about maybe starting the blog again, but this time a blog that had a very specific purpose and focus. There's a blogger out there or a blog called Modern Mrs. Darcy that Anne Bogel runs and then she has also started a podcast called What Should I Read Next?. The focus of her blog is more for adults. It's all adult books and books and reading.
And I just kind of thought that would be kind of fun to just kind of create my own Like Modern Mrs. Darcy-type blog, but only focused on kids and middle-grade fiction. [00:07:49] So when I started to kind of share that idea with others, I just got a lot of confirmation like, yes, you would be good at that. Yes, you should try that.
But it's still, I don't know, I just kind of... The idea percolated in my head for a while before I actually moved forward with it. I don't know, there's also kind of a bit of fear when it comes to putting yourself out there. But eventually I just kind of felt like, God... I mean, I just didn't have any other direction. I just felt like this is the way to go.
So I started it last November, it would be November of 2017. It's gotten good so far. I'm finding that I'm really loving it. If I don't focus too much on the numbers of it, because sometimes when you're starting something new that can be slow going, but I really enjoy doing it.
I feel like I've kind of created a job for myself where I just get to read books all the time, which is also pretty awesome. That's kind of the story of how it all got started. I don't know if that's more than what you wanted, but... [00:08:55]
Laura Dugger: No, that is incredible. Thank you for sharing. I love how you even talked about fear mixed in because I think anytime we're on the edge of something big, there will be fear, but courage is still taking the next step forward. It's not like that fear went away and then you could start your blog. So I admire you for having faith in God and walking that out.
Megan Kaeb: Yeah, it's just exciting. I'm excited to see where it all goes. And even if it goes nowhere, I still feel like this is what I'm supposed to be doing right now. So there's a lot of peace in that.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that's incredible. I think it's going to go somewhere. I love it. I very much appreciate your labor of love. Do you think babies are born to be avid readers or taught? I think that, well, there's just so many different personalities that some kids just naturally are avid readers, and I think some it definitely comes a lot harder too.
Dr. Kathy Cook has a book where she talks about the different kind of smarts that we all have and how some kids are word smart, some kids are picture smart, some kids are body smart, music smart, nature smart, people smart. [00:10:10]
So I just kind of think like a kid who is maybe body smart they always have to be moving around but they're really athletic or they're good with coordinated all that big. So it might be harder for them to sit still and actually like get through a book, so reading might not appeal to them from the surface. But I feel like everyone can learn to love stories. And if you love stories then it's a very easy jump to love reading. A lot of times I just think you have to find the right books or even the right way to enjoy those books.
I think audiobooks are a great option for kids that just have a hard time sitting still. Because again, I think it's more than just reading the words on the page. It's about really loving stories and learning from other people's experiences and so yeah. I do think some people reading comes a lot easier too than others, and others it is a struggle, but I think everyone can grow to love stories. [00:11:09]
Laura Dugger: I love the encouragement in that. How do parents provide an atmosphere in their home to encourage a love of learning and reading?
Megan Kaeb: I think there's that saying that more is caught than taught, I think modeling reading is a big way to encourage it. If I think of kids see us reading books, then they might be more inclined to be like, Hey, I wonder what's going on with that. I know my mom read a lot and my grandma read a lot too. I remember as a kid seeing my mom sitting on the sofa reading a book.
I also think if you read out loud to your kids, even if they don't like reading on their own, there's still something about that shared time together that connects. I think, too, you have to be flexible even when you're reading out loud.
Like our family, sometimes reading out loud together looks really picture perfect, but other times it does not at all. Like kids will be doing other things which is fine as long as they're quiet. [00:12:10] And honestly I feel like if kids have a hard time sitting still, if they can color or even play a game as long as they can do it quietly while you're reading out loud. That works for me.
But there are times when I'm just like... when they are not being quiet I'm just like, "If you can't listen, then you need to get out of the room," or they're sometimes yelling gets involved with it and it doesn't look quite as picture perfect as what I would like. But we still keep trying and we keep working at it.
Laura Dugger: All the parents are nodding along, like, yes, we've been there before. You alluded to this, but what did your parents do to instill a love of reading in you?
Megan Kaeb: Like I said, I feel like I saw it modeled a lot. My mom read a lot on her own and she also read out loud to us. I also just remember there being books around our house a lot. If you don't have books around your house, they're not going to pick them up to read them.
So even now I will go to the library a lot and sometimes on my own and I'll just bring home a bunch of books that I think they might like and just have them laying around so it's easy for them to pick up. [00:13:17] When I was a kid, we lived in a small town and it was the type of situation where I could ride my bike all over the place. So being a small town, there wasn't a ton of places to go, but the library was one. So just even that I had the freedom to go to the library.
And now my kids don't have that same type of freedom to go on their own, but I take them a lot to the library. Over the summer we're usually at the library probably once a week. So I just think if you expose them to books a lot, and I feel like my parents did a good job of that with us, too, then, yeah, it can just kind of get passed on or... yeah.
Laura Dugger: Those are good practical tips. So, taking your children to the library, reading aloud to them. Is there anything else that you did specifically to promote a love of reading in your own children?
Megan Kaeb: Yeah. I think, well, talking about going to the library, summer reading programs at the library are an awesome way to motivate your kids to read. [00:14:17] I know our libraries have really great prizes for reading. So I feel like if you have never done a reading program with your kids through the library like that is... Every summer we do that. And I feel like that helps a ton.
I also talk to my kids about books a lot. I ask them what they're reading. I ask them if they like what they're reading. One of my boys loves reading Big Nate and he will often read to me from his book. So just even being patient with that and making time for that, those conversations is important.
One other thing I do to kind of provide an atmosphere to encourage a love of reading is I give them the chance to read before they go to bed. I'm kind of a stickler when it comes to bedtime at our house. I like my kids to go to bed early so I can have some time away from them in the evenings with my husband. [00:15:17]
But part of the way that I make that look more promising is like if they don't have to go to sleep right away, they can read in bed for a while. And if they don't want to read in bed, they can go to sleep. That's fine, too. But sometimes I think that the chance to stay up a little later might encourage them to pick up a book a little quicker.
Laura Dugger: Oh, I love that. That's such a good idea.
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Laura Dugger: What can we do to emulate your steps and create a culture of reading in our own homes?
Megan Kaeb: I think a lot of what I've said already. Even with the library reading programs, there are also other reading programs out there that you can get prizes. [00:17:24] I think Barnes & Noble does a free.. Or you can earn a free book if you read a certain number of books during the summer. You can find programs like that, which are awesome.
Again, I just say keep lots of books lying around the house. Give books as gifts. I really think the biggest way that you can, or the most practical step, I don't know, is to just start reading out or continue reading out loud to your kids from little on up.
And even when they get older, I don't think they outgrow enjoying listening to you read out loud. It might look a little different. It might be harder to find the time. That's something we're running into where my kids are in activities, and so it's harder to find the time where we can all be together and share a story. But it is something that I really work to be intentional at. And I never regret that time that we spend when I'm reading out loud to my kids.
Laura Dugger: That's so good. And you even talk about that on your homepage of your blog where that effort truly is worthwhile. [00:18:30]
Megan Kaeb: Yeah.
Laura Dugger: From your faith and expertise in this area, let's just go through a few specific types of books and hear your opinion on how to navigate them with kids. So you mentioned audiobooks earlier. Let's just start with that.
Megan Kaeb: Yeah, I love audiobooks. I feel like they are a great way to create a shared experience or a great way for your child to just listen to one on their own. There was one summer our family, whenever we drive around to the pool or to the library or whatever field trips we kind of had planned over the summer, we would work our way through the Little House on the Prairie series on audio. So every time we were in the van, we would listen to that series. That summer just was filled with those stories which was fun. And sometimes my kids will listen to them in the room.
The problem with audiobooks is even a good book, if it has a bad narrator, it can make a bad audiobook. [00:19:31] So you really want to find a good narrator and then kind of try to find the books that they narrate.
I know Little House on the Prairie is well done, Ramona, there are some really good ones there. I have a friend who listens to a lot of audiobooks so she's gonna hopefully get me some of their favorites, and I'm hoping to do a blog post on that as well.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that's exciting. What about hard-topic books or books with sad endings?
Megan Kaeb: I think these are important. I feel Like this is another way that books and reading can, I don't know, influence our kids or... not even influence. It's just a way to help them feel that they're not alone, that there are hard things in the world, and if they can experience that with us. I feel like that just... I don't know, that exposure is not a bad thing. Because there are hard things in the world. [00:20:28]
And yeah, we want to shelter them, but if you can kind of start to expose them somewhat through harder things in books, I feel like that is not a bad thing either. Now, some kids are a lot more sensitive to some of those type of topics, so you kind of need to know your kid and what they can handle and what they can't.
I actually just read an article the other day that was so good. It was written by... his name is Matt de la Peña, and he wrote a book called Last Stop on Market Street, which it's a picture book and it is phenomenal. It actually won a Newbery... I don't know if it was an honor or actually won the medal.
But he kind of was talking about this same question, and he just kind of said if he had any question or could ask any author any question, he'd want to ask Kate DiCamillo, who's one of my favorite authors, how honest can an author be with an auditorium full of elementary school kids? How honest should we be with our readers? Is the job of the writer for the very young to tell the truth or preserve innocence? [00:21:35]
He talked about a book called Love, and in the book there's a scene where a little kid is hiding under the piano, and you can just kind of tell the parents are arguing. It's just a tougher picture. The publisher wanted to take it out thinking that maybe that was too hard of a picture for kids. But he and the illustrator fought to keep it in, and he just said, "There's a power to seeing this largely unspoken part of our interior lives represented too. And for those who've yet to experience that kind of sadness, I can't think of a safer place to explore complex emotions for the first time than inside the pages of a book while sitting in the lap of a loved one."
And I just thought that was really good. For kids who haven't experienced that sadness to kind of be exposed to it when they're with parents is important. And then for kids who have experienced that sadness, to know that they're not alone, that there's not shame in that, that's really important too. [00:22:40]
So I can give you the link to that article. It was really good. And then Kate DiCamillo actually responded to him and just what she wrote was so good too. Just really good thoughts on why it's important to expose our kids to even the harder stories.
Laura Dugger: What do you recommend for books that include magic?
Megan Kaeb: I honestly love magic. I'm going to include fantasy books in this as well. I feel like they inspire a sense of wonder and imagination in our kids and it just kind of keeps them young. There's just something about... I don't know, I remember as a kid after reading the Chronicles of Narnia, opening our hall closet and just kind of wishing that maybe I would... I remember pulling the coats apart and actually thinking maybe this is the way into Narnia. I don't know, there's just something really special about that.
So I don't have a problem with magic in books. Sometimes it can be a little bit of a darker magic, but I think if you have the right books, it is very clear whether it's good or evil. [00:23:43] So even the evil, more darker side of it, if it's portrayed that way, again, I feel like that's okay because there is good in this world, there is evil in this world. So being exposed to that, whether there's magic involved or not, I don't think is a bad thing.
Laura Dugger: I love that. And what is your opinion on graphic novels?
Megan Kaeb: I think graphic novels can be a great... I kind of call certain graphic novels, like I think of Big Nate or even Captain Underpants, which isn't necessarily a graphic novel, but I'm going to kind of throw it in this category. I'm not a fan of Captain Underpants, but my boys did read them for a time.
I kind of call them gateway books. I feel like they are a way that our kids can... like especially my boys, they're just more visual. And I feel like those kind of books they draw them in. And now as my boys are older, they still enjoy graphic novels, but they're reading more traditional novels. [00:24:49] So I feel like graphic novels were a great way to kind of get them to enjoy reading and slowly move them towards books that maybe have more words and less pictures.
And there are some actually really well-done graphic novels as well that tell amazing stories. You just have to find them. There's one called Around the World by Matt Phelan. I'm not 100% sure how to pronounce his name, but it talks about three... it's kind of a historical... It's really not fiction but it talks about Nellie Bly, and it talks about a guy who wrote his bicycle all over the world. There's one of those weird like with the giant wheel-type bicycles. It was a fun one.
El Deafo is a book by CeCe Bell. It's about this girl... or it's actually a rabbit in the story, and I think it's autobiographical of the author, but she had to wear a hearing aid that hung around her neck and just kind of how she felt different and trying to find friends through that. I don't know, it was a well-told story through pictures. So those are a couple of good ones. [00:25:55]
Laura Dugger: That's awesome. You're just opening our world to so many possibilities and sounds like you're encouraging the parents to do their homework and research and know their child. And yet there's this awesome world of wonder.
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Well, this time has been so rich. We're going to have to come back to finish and maybe we can talk about book lists next time and get some more recommendations for different age groups. But I have one final question for you today. The name of this podcast is The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" means knowledge that we can apply in practical ways. So, Megan, what is your savvy sauce?
Megan Kaeb: Okay, I'm going to say naps and quiet time are super important for your kids, even when they're little and even when they're big. [00:27:00] Over the summer or whenever we have breaks, my kids still are required to have an hour, hour, and a half of quiet time every day. Now they don't have to nap.
Usually, they have to read for part of that, but then after that they can do whatever they want as long as they're quiet. Especially over the summer when we're all together so much, we need space from each other and I need space from them. So I think instituting naps/you can call it quiet time when they're older, even for my teenagers, is important. I don't think you give up naps when they're preschoolers, but it's something that continues on into the teenage years. You just maybe rename it to quiet time.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that is incredible and something we can all apply today. Megan, this time it seriously was just such a gift. I could listen to you for hours. You shared so much of your research and your heart behind it, and it's such a balanced approach. So thank you for spending time with us today.
Megan Kaeb: My pleasure. This is really fun. [00:28:00]
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:29:06]
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:30:07]
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. [00:31:06]
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.