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Do you want ideas for questions to deepen your conversations? Do you want to feel intimately connected to your spouse? Do you desire to parent with purpose? If so, tune in each Monday with Laura, a licensed marriage and family therapist who specialized in Christian sex therapy. She interviews the best faith-based speakers to answer our questions and doesn't shy away from a wide range of difficult topics. Sexual intimacy is discussed once a month so that you can delight in your marital relationship, feel equipped to teach your children about sex, and learn practical ways to overcome hurt or addiction. Episodes on health and wellness cover topics of hormones and free lifestyle swaps, perimenopause, and what simple practices yield HUGE health benefits. Marital experts teach conflict resolution that actually works, parenting pros share wisdom from newborns to adult children, business leaders let us in on secrets of the trade, and the foundation of everything is Jesus Christ! Find joy here and live on purpose as you consider, “What’s your savvy sauce?!"
Episodes
Monday Sep 01, 2025
Monday Sep 01, 2025
268. Savvy Business and Health & Wellness Tips and Journey to Overcoming Infertility with Laura Jean Bell
1 Corinthians 10:31 NIV "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."
Today's episode includes some thematic material. I want you to be aware before you listen in the presence of little ears.
*Transcription Below*
Laura Jean Bell is a believer, storyteller, writer, wife to her high school sweetheart and mama to three miracle babies.
She is a published author of You Can Always Come Home by Laura Jean Bell, in addition to being a Business and Social Media Coach.
Laura also overcame stage 3 endometriosis by taking the road less traveled and now she spends countless hours helping other women take that road with her!
Connect with Laura on Instagram: @laura_jean_bell
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
- What are a handful of practical tips you can offer others, especially as it relates to digital marketing?
- Will you share your research on Minerals: How do we even determine what minerals we need?
- Will you leave us with a few more social media tips?
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank
Other Episodes Related to This Topic from The Savvy Sauce:
33 Pursuing Health in the New Year with Functional Medicine Specialist, Dr. Jill Carnahan
132 Pursuing Your God-Given Dream with Francie Hinrichsen
256 Gut Health, Allergies, Inflammation and Proactive Solutions with Emily Macleod-Wolfe
266 Female Sex Hormones, Periods, and Perimenopause with Emily Macleod-Wolfe
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook, Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
Music: (0:00 – 0:10)
Laura Dugger: (0:11 - 1:25)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
Today's episode includes some thematic material. I want you to be aware before you listen in the presence of little ears.
Thank you to an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank who paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Learn more about this amazing nonprofit organization at MidwestFoodBank.org.
Laura Jean Bell is my guest today, and she is a Jesus-loving author and also a business and social media coach. So, not only is she going to share some of her best savvy social media and business tips, but also the conversation takes a detour into health and wellness, and she has an abundance of wisdom to share there as well, even including practical tips that we can implement today for our own flourishing in health and well-being. Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Laura.
Laura Jean Bell: (1:26 - 1:27)
Hi, thank you for having me.
Laura Dugger: (1:28 - 1:34)
I'd love for you just to start us off by giving us a snapshot glimpse of your current life right now.
Laura Jean Bell: (1:35 - 2:27)
Oh, my goodness, my chaotic life. Actually, it's a sweet, beautiful thing, but I am a wife to my high school sweetheart. We have been married, this year will be 11 years, and we have three kiddos. Emmylou, who is six. She literally just turned six. My son Oaks, who is three, and my youngest is Lottie, and she just turned nine months. So, my life is very full. I own my business, I am a published author, and I have three very, very needy children, right? I'm in a season of life where I'm very, very, very needed, and that's a beautiful thing, but it can be a very overwhelming thing at times. So, that is a little snapshot about my day-in and day-out life.
Laura Dugger: (2:27 - 2:43)
That sums it up well. Gorgeous kid names, by the way. Oh, thank you. But I'd love to hear more about your business, too. Would you mind just explaining the work that you get to do as a digital marketer and online income mentor?
Laura Jean Bell: (2:44 - 4:58)
Sure. Okay, so, this has been such a fun journey for me, and just to maybe explain it in like a Reader's Digest version, because I think that there's so much on the internet right now that's like, make $5 million in four minutes. But what I do is actually help business owners.
So, like the average woman who maybe is wanting to build an income or find her place online, that was where I started. That's where I began, like really helping those women be like, “Hey, I can be a business owner, too.” I can actually have like a mark and a place in this space, which I think is often really hard for women to like grasp, because we're so inundated with influencer culture.
But as the business began to expand and grow, I really started to lean into how do I help business owners actually market their business and make it really profitable online? Because a lot of times there's business owners that have these great businesses, but they don't actually have the marketing piece to actually sell the thing that makes their business a business. And some of them have a brick and mortar, and they're brick and mortar as well, but they'd love to increase their income.
How do you do that? You get online; you make sales online. And so, what I do is I teach female business entrepreneurs how to scale their business using Instagram.
I do not focus on any other platforms. My main focus is Instagram and teaching them how to use their messaging to make sales consistently. And so, I help them figure out their messaging and then write it.
Actually, I write content for a lot of my clients. And then I teach them consistency and speed so that their life isn't just consumed by the internet, which is like what all of us feel, right? Like, once you get on, you're like, how do I do this?
And I have to create this, I have to edit this, I have to do that. Like, it becomes very overwhelming. And so, what I do is I just eliminate the overwhelm.
I simplify it and I help entrepreneurs really find their messaging.
Laura Dugger: (4:59 - 5:15)
Wow, that's incredible. So, you clearly have a gift for communication and articulating different things. Is there anything you want to just give us a little peek into practical tips if somebody is running their own social media?
Any tips you'd have for business owners?
Laura Jean Bell: (5:17 - 6:59)
I think that the biggest, the greatest understatement that's happening right now online is followers and views mean absolutely nothing. They are like the beginning of Instagram, the beginning of social media. It was all about like, how many friends do you have?
And then it was how many followers do you have? And you know, how many views are you getting on your stories? And you get all these interactions on your reels.
And like, while that is the mental game of social media, and that is the thing that everybody is going for, because it actually fuels this like dopamine hit in your brain. But the reality is, is that there are people with thousands upon thousands of followers that are making $0 on the internet. And what they need is the actual messaging that says, “Hey, this is how I serve this pain point, and give you the life you want.”
And so, the biggest thing is, if you have five people in one day that view your stories, and three of them actually buy from you, like, that's over 50%. So, you're looking at, while everybody is freaking out about the number, it really is about your messaging in order to convert to sales, you can have a bunch of eyes on you. But if you're not serving the people that are following you, and serving them towards a sale, it doesn't mean anything.
So, don't focus on the numbers, focus on your messaging, focus on your brand, focus on what it is that you are serving your people with. And you will make money, you just will. It's how it works.
So, I hope that answers your question. Well for you.
Laura Dugger: (6:59 - 7:26)
But yeah, I love it, because it's so unexpected, I would have never known. And I've also heard you encourage people to share their stories rather than just stating facts. And you share your own story, both online and in your book, You Can Always Come Home: Following the Breadcrumbs of Your Past to Find the Hope for Your Tomorrow.
So, Laura, how can we all incorporate stories into our own work so that we can better serve others?
Laura Jean Bell: (7:28 - 8:59)
That's such a good question. And I think the biggest thing is, what story do you want people to know? What story is it that like, you really think like, you've been pricked, right, by the Holy Spirit, like, this is the story that I need you to tell.
This is why you walked through this experience. This is why you're doing this thing. Because oftentimes, we can negate the things that we've walked through, and act as if like, those things didn't, weren't that big of a deal because you survived it, right?
Like, oh, well, you know, it wasn't anything, it was a big deal, right? And so, what are the things that you actually feel are important, they keep showing up, they keep becoming the things that people are asking you about? And how do you tell that story to where somebody hears the messy middle, and then the beautiful resolve, the beautiful ending to that story, because there is, right, the beginning, the middle, and the end.
And that's what makes stories so impactful. Facts tell, right? Like, anybody can tell you that, like, a carrot is orange.
But like, if somebody tells you the story of how the carrot became orange, or how this, like, what the soil does to all of this, and how it adds these nutrients, doesn't that make you like, appreciate a carrot more, want to eat a carrot more, want to go buy the carrots more, right? And so, the same goes with our story, like, what is it that actually happened to create this specific result?
Laura Dugger: (9:00 - 9:11)
That's so good. Well, and speaking of stories, are you willing to walk us through a little bit of your own story with your health journey? Yeah, absolutely.
Ask me anything.
Laura Jean Bell: (9:11 - 9:16)
I'm an open book. It might scare some people. I'm an open book about it.
Laura Dugger: (9:17 - 9:33)
I appreciate that. Yeah, just, you're clearly a very healthy woman. But I know you've had a whole past that you've walked.
So, has health always been important to you? Or at what point of life did you start to make some changes because it wasn't working?
Laura Jean Bell: (9:35 - 14:24)
Yeah, you know, it's so interesting. When I reflect on something like that. Um, you know, I grew up in a home, I always start with this, like, my mother was not a dieter.
Like she didn't diet all the time. She wasn't always like, on some workout trend or not eating carbs or not doing this. Like it was never that.
My mom is naturally like very, very, very thin. And so, like that wasn't a part of the conversation. My mom was always obsessed, though, with, like eating food that's good for you.
Like, and in the 90s, like that was really tricky, right? Because they were so many messages about like, what's good for you? What's not that is bad.
Like there's all these things. And while our household, I say was probably much healthier than the average household in the 1990s and early 2000s. I don't think that I ever like cared about my health.
I still ate the Hot Pockets and the Easy Mac and ramen noodles and every opportunity that my parents actually let us eat out like I was chowing down. So, when I reflect on like my years, like 0 to 18, all I cared about was just consumption. I was like, nobody could stop the amount of food that I could consume.
I'm five foot eleven (5’ 11”). I was growing like crazy. You can ask my family like I could out eat anyone.
It was kind of unbelievable. So, that part of my life, like, that was not an unhealthy thing. College is when things began for me.
And when I went to college, I for most of my life, I was a competitive dancer. So, like, I was consuming but I was burning like it was like calories in versus calories out. I had no concept of that.
I did not know how to read a nutrition label on the back of a box until I was like, well into college, like, literally remember learning how to do it in a college health class. So, I go to college. And I noticed that I started gaining weight, right?
Like, I'm eating all the fast-food options that are in our student center. And then the cafeteria food. This isn't my mom's home cooked meals anymore.
This isn't the mostly healthy option anymore. And I start gaining weight. So, when that happened, I started hearing other girls talk about what they were doing.
Like, oh, well, you just eat less than exercise more. And like, I had no concept of like, what, what did that mean? Right?
Like, do you just not eat like I love to eat, right. And so, what I started doing, I didn't know how to like lift weights or do anything. So, I started running, because I thought, okay, I have endurance, I danced forever, like, you have to have that endurance with that.
So, like, I'll run. So, I start running. And I completely gave up meat.
I was like, well, I can just eat. I thought meat somehow made you fat. I don't know.
That was just some weird thing that I had in my head. And I stopped eating meat, and I ate less. So, like, I just kind of narrowed down what I was eating, and then ate less of it kind of thing.
And that was when my health problems began, was when I began doing that. Which is really interesting, right? I was probably eating roughly like 1000 to 1200 calories a day, but I was running four to six miles a day.
So, like, I was not fueling what I was burning. Although I was losing weight. So, like, calories in versus calories out, like the concept of like, just eat less than exercise more, it was working.
I was 19. Like, I was young, I had a like, everything was working right, you know. But all of a sudden, my body was like, you're depriving me.
And I'm not only being deprived of actual calories, I'm being deprived of nutrients. And what began to happen is it started to show up in my hormones, with my cycle, started breaking out in hormonal acne on my chin, I started having very short cycles. So, like, for any woman listening that maybe doesn't have a concept of this language, because oddly enough, so many women don't, and it's like about us.
But like, a woman has a cycle, your period isn't your cycle, it's the full month that's your cycle. And I was instead of 28 days, I was having 18 day cycles. And the pain during my period was excruciating.
It was so painful. And I'd never experienced that before. So, those were the things that began to show up.
But I just kept going with what I was doing. And just thought I just had bad periods. I had family members that had bad periods, this just must be genetic. And I just have to live with it and pop ibuprofen every 18 days, right. So, that was kind of where it where it started.
Laura Dugger: (14:25 - 16:04)
Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor. Midwest Food Bank who exists to provide industry leading food relief to those in need while feeding them spiritually. They are a food charity with a desire to demonstrate God's love by providing help to those in need.
Unlike other parts of the world where there's not enough food, in America the resources actually do exist. That's why food pantries and food banks like Midwest Food Bank are so important. The goods that they deliver to their agency partners help to supplement the food supply for families and individuals across our country, aiding those whose resources are beyond stretched.
Midwest Food Bank also supports people globally through their locations in Haiti and East Africa, which are some of the areas hardest hit by hunger arising from poverty. This ministry reaches millions of people every year. And thanks to the Lord's provision, 99% of every donation goes directly toward providing food to people in need.
The remaining 1% of income is used for fundraising, cost of leadership, oversight and other administrative expenses. Donations, volunteers and prayers are always appreciated for Midwest Food Bank. To learn more, visit MidwestFoodBank.org or listen to Episode 83 of The Savvy Sauce where the founder David Kieser shares miracles of God that he's witnessed through this nonprofit organization. I hope you check them out today. Was that the point that led to what you call your year of rebellion? Or did that come later?
Laura Jean Bell: (16:05 - 23:39)
No way that that was just the start of basically, roughly eight years of undiagnosed endometriosis. So, what started happening is in college, I would have these what I call episodes where I would be roughly like a day or two before my period would start. And I would have this unbelievable pain that would come over me.
And I could feel it literally my lower abdomen, so much pressure, so much discomfort. Oftentimes, it would involve vomiting, passing out, so painful. To this day, I've had an unmedicated birth.
And I'm here to tell you that the pain of pushing out an almost 10-pound baby, and that were roughly the same thing. It was unbelievable, excruciating pain. I would go to the doctor, they would not give me ultrasounds, they would not check anything, they would not even do my blood work, they did nothing.
They would just say you have really painful periods, and we'll give you birth control. That was every year from 2010 until 2017. This was what was given to me.
And so, in 2017, I was on my way to work, and I had one of those episodes. And I called the doctor, they bring me in, and I said, I want an ultrasound, like I will sit here all day, I need an ultrasound. And so, they did an ultrasound and found two cysts on one ovary, one on the other, and they were six and seven centimeters and six centimeters.
I mean, it was just crazy, these large cysts. And they were like, you more than likely have endometriosis. This is, you know, they started explaining all the things.
And fast forward, I ended up having two laparoscopies, which is the surgery to remove endometriosis in 10 months, the average woman can go 18 months between surgeries, and I had mine in 10 months. That's how reoccurring rapidly it was growing and spreading in my body. And I felt zero relief from the surgeries, which everyone promised, like, you'll feel amazing, you'll, you know, you'll get pregnant. I couldn't get pregnant. I was in so much pain, and I go through another cycle of it.
And it's like, these doctors are like, yeah, you're probably just not going to be able to have children. We recommend you getting on birth control, or getting a hysterectomy, like, these are your options. And so, what I did is I went to see a fertility specialist, like anybody would do like, I'm not going to just stick with my OB. I'm going to see if I can actually have kids. And so, I see a fertility specialist, I go through multiple, multiple, multiple rounds of fertility treatments, and I wind up getting pregnant with my first daughter, Emilu.
So, she is a product of folly stem stimulation and an IUI. And lots of trigger shots and lots of synthetic progesterone. I did all of it.
And after my daughter was born a year postpartum, I got pregnant again, and I miscarried that baby. That baby was miscarried March of 2020, which is when everybody went crazy, right? 2020, like who has their 2020 story, right?
And so, my daughter was little, I mean, she was like 14 months old, when I had this miscarriage. And I remember watching, I watched this video, it was called The Pandemic. And a lot of people like didn't actually see it because it was taken off the internet for misinformation.
And it was a woman that was explaining what was really happening with the pandemic, which is funny, because all of it's true now. But it was taken down like, she's crazy. This is a horrible pandemic, nothing was created in a lab, all of that.
And I was like, I went to watch it again, because I thought this woman must be crazy. Like there's no way that this would actually happen. And I went to watch it again.
And it was taken off the internet for misinformation. And this thought came over me, which is so bizarre now. Like, I know more about Kim and Kanye's divorce, than I know about what's happening with this pandemic.
Yet, Kim and Kanye's divorce information is there for me to see. And they're not letting me look at this. Why?
And it was this very strange thing that came over me. But everything that came out that was like, don't take this medicine to help COVID, don't do this, actually, like saturated fats are bad for you, like all of these different things that were popping up. And people were saying, it's misinformation.
I was like, I'm going to research that. I'm going to research that. I'm going to research that the fertility doctor that did my DNC after I had a miscarriage. They actually said to me, you will never again, have another pregnancy.
But if you do, you will not have a normal child. That is what they discovered and decided about me, according to the results from that DNC, what happened to that baby, why that baby wasn't developing, why I lost that baby. It literally like, and him saying that to me, I was like, why?
And it was almost like he couldn't explain to me the reasons why, but that I just never would. And this is what I needed to do next in order to stay healthy and keep endometriosis away. And so, I went on this journey for one year and I committed to one year where I was like, everything that is misinformation, I'm going to research it.
Everything that I have been told is good for me or is the best choice for me because of my condition. I'm going to actually look at what they're giving to me and like, why? Um, every time somebody told me like endometriosis is incurable.
Okay. But like, what is endometriosis? Nobody actually explained to me what it was.
They just told me I had it and that it caused what it caused, not actually what caused it. And so, when I went on this journey, I began to discover and unfold so many things that absolutely blew my mind, broke my heart, made me very angry because as I began to implement the things that I discovered, I healed and I got better. And all of a sudden I don't have endometriosis anymore.
All of a sudden I'm pregnant with a very healthy baby. All of a sudden, like everything is better. How is it that the things that the providers that were working with me, what they were doing for me was keeping me sick.
And as I branched out and did all the things that they said was absolutely crazy. I had one of them literally looking at me and he was holding topical progesterone and he was like, this stuff, like with all due respect to this functional doctor that talked to you, this stuff doesn't work. And unfortunately they sell things to people like you, young women who are desperate for answers.
They sell this stuff to you to make so much money and it's not going to do anything for you. Guess what? Topical progesterone changed my life.
So, anyways, that is kind of a little bit of like my year of rebellion and what happened. I'm happy to go into details for you, but I feel like I'm getting long winded with it.
Laura Dugger: (23:39 - 24:13)
No, that's incredible. I do want to do a deep dive into it because I think it's such a blessing after you've spent over a year researching this and then living this for multiple years. I think it can be such a benefit to each of us.
And I'm recalling this story specifically about toxins where people were saying that means nothing. But in that fertility clinic, somebody told you, there was a sign that said their employees were not allowed to wear certain toxins because quote, it could inhibit the fertility process.
Laura Jean Bell: (24:14 - 24:14)
Yes.
Laura Dugger: (24:15 - 24:16)
Can you elaborate on that?
Laura Jean Bell: (24:17 - 26:18)
Yes. You know, what's really funny is I went to the health department to get some paperwork and stuff for my kids the other day. And, um, there was a sign up that was like any and all women that are getting mammograms, if you're getting a mammogram, do not wear perfume or deodorant for a mammogram because of the radiation mixed with the toxins.
I asked the woman that was sitting there, I was like, why did they say that? And she explained it to me and I was like, oh, okay. So, why aren't you telling us to stop wearing it altogether?
Um, but when I went to the fertility clinic, I was going through fertility. I was like an avid Daisy by Mark Jacobs perfume where I don't know. I still love the way that smells.
It's the yummiest, but I would wear it all the time. And I went in and the woman that was there, she was like, you smell so good. And I was like, it's Daisy by Mark Jacobs.
She was like, I wish I could wear perfume to work. I'm not allowed to. And I was like, why not?
And she was like, oh, because like the people that are working on women who are going through fertility, getting their IU eyes. So, it's like when they're actually inseminating you, like we, it could inhibit the fertility process. She was like, have you ever noticed we don't have any candles?
Like we're not allowed to bring candles here, all of that. And I was like, why aren't you telling me to stop doing that? Is that not interesting to anyone?
Like why is no one paying attention to the fact that like, I'm walking in here with perfume on to get an IU eye that's going to fail because it inhibits the, for the fertility process, like the one that works. Uh, guess what? I wasn't wearing any perfume.
So, it's like, it's one of those things that like, when I heard that, I thought, well, what is it that messes with the fertility process? Like what, what is that? And this was honestly, when I heard this information, this was before my year of rebellion.
So, like, I remember her telling me that and I kind of stopped wearing it to the sessions because I thought, well, I don't want to get this messed up anyways.
Laura Dugger: (26:18 - 26:29)
So, yeah, pretty wild. That's incredible. And okay.
So, from that year of rebellion, what other tweaks did you make small and large?
Laura Jean Bell: (26:30 - 29:38)
Oh man. Um, some big things like I removed toxins from my home. So, that looked like removing Clorox wipes and, um, detergents that are just like your average detergents that you buy from the store.
Um, I stopped burning candles and started burning, not burning, but diffusing essential oils. Um, from there, what I really started focusing on was my protein intake. Um, I spent so many years vegan, vegetarian, refusing meat, refusing proteins.
And those were the years that things were really bad for me. When I started to reincorporate animal proteins and quality animal fats, my cycles went from 18 days to 29 days. I started having painless periods.
My hair started growing more. Um, my nails wouldn't break. Um, my, even my vision got better.
And so, what was really interesting is I started learning that if you are protein deficient, you will be progesterone deficient and progesterone is the pregnancy hormone. This is the hormone you have to have in order to conceive. I always tell it like this progesterone equals pro gestation.
So, if you don't have enough progesterone, your baby cannot survive the first 12 weeks. That's what the baby lives on before the placenta is formed. You have to have progesterone in order to balance out the estrogen progesterone balance.
If it's imbalanced, that's where you have pain, mood swings, acne, discomfort, the growth of endometriosis and PCOS. These things are really important. Progesterone is so important for your mental health.
If you are mentally low, like think about your progesterone levels. Think about how much you're sleeping. If you're sleeping in complete darkness, that raises your levels.
If you eat at least 80 grams of protein a day, it raises your progesterone levels. These are two really basic things. Like it's really simple.
It's not complicated. So, that was probably the biggest thing for me was learning how to eat because for years we're told, at least all of my life, like fat is bad. They would rather you eat hydrogenated oils and I can't believe it's not better than actually eat grass-fed butter.
Why? Why is it bad for you? When you really uncover the work that was done in the studies that were given for explaining that fat is bad, it was all paid for.
It was all paid for by the medical industry, by big pharma in order to push this agenda. They said that it was bad for our hearts, but get this, in the years after they told everyone that it was horrible for heart health, heart disease skyrocketed as people began to eat less animal protein and less animal fats. So, anyways, just to give like a little, some of the things that I discovered and changed, that's the main thing, which really and truly is like not that complicated.
Wow.
Laura Dugger: (29:39 - 29:45)
Yes. Focusing on what you're intaking. What about cortisol? What did you learn about that?
Laura Jean Bell: (29:46 - 32:21)
So, cortisol is like your get up and get crap done hormone. Okay. And when you are living in a state of fight or flight, where basically you get up in the morning, I'm going to give you an example of what a lot of women do.
And they end up having issues with cortisol and eventually stop producing it altogether. So, a woman gets up in the morning, she wakes up, she drinks a cup of coffee with no food on her stomach. And she goes and does a 30-minute cardio workout.
And then she comes in and she eats maybe like a protein bar, like a little, like some type of granola bar, another cup of coffee. She goes to work. She works all day or she's home with her kids all day.
And by the time she's got her work done, or she's taking care of her children and fed her children, doing all of these things, you're going all day long. All of a sudden it's three o'clock and you haven't eaten anything and you're in a bad mood and you're really tired. And so, maybe you go get a snack and another cup of coffee.
And then by the time you get to dinner, it's the only meal that you've really sat down and had for the day. Okay. So, what has that done to you?
Your body believes because your body and your brain don't know the difference between a bear chasing you or you running strictly on caffeine and doing too much cardio. And so, all of a sudden she is moody. She's exhausted.
She's running on all this tension. Her hair starts to fall out. She gets acne.
Her skin's doing some weird stuff. Her nails are kind of brittle. All this, you're always moody.
You're always in a bad mood. It's because your cortisol is doing this. It's like, and it's like on, it's like high.
And sometimes when you keep doing this, you actually can get a lot of energy. And then all of a sudden your adrenals, because your adrenals are what produced cortisol. Your adrenals are like, actually we're done.
Like stop running from the bear. Just die. Like literally it like can't do anything for you anymore.
And you go into what a lot of people call, or doctors call adrenal failure, which is where your body doesn't even produce cortisol anymore. And so, that is when you can't get out of bed in the morning. You're so exhausted.
Um, you can't lose weight. You, no matter what you do, you're winded. You're overwhelmed.
Um, but you don't have energy for anything. You have so much brain fog, um, so much bloat and inflammation. It's because your body's not producing cortisol.
So, you don't have the energy to get anything done. Um, does that answer your question?
Laura Dugger: (32:21 - 32:45)
Yeah, this is so interesting because I feel like there's a whole health movement right now. So, there's a lot of buzz about all of this and people, I think, especially after 2020 people are waking up. So, love gathering perspectives as you're talking about inflammation then too, with cortisol, have you researched much about grounding, like actually barefoot on the earth?
Yes, girl. Are you kidding me? Absolutely.
Laura Jean Bell: (32:46 - 35:48)
Um, so, something that was really interesting, I went to see a specialist, um, when I was really healing my adrenals, because a fun fact for you, like when your adrenals are just in overload, if you are experiencing high cortisol, you're constantly up here. Guess what? Your body's going to throw out the window fertility because what in the world is safe about a body that is running from a bear?
Like, no, your body is preserving you because it's not safe for you to host a life. So, I was seeing a doctor who was really helping me. Um, it's called muscle testing.
So, they test each organ according to how your muscles respond. And, um, I was in adrenal failure. And at this point I'd already had my second child and was experiencing a lot of inflammation.
I couldn't lose weight. I was like so tired. I was irritable.
And, um, I did this long session with him and I was in St. Pete, Florida doing this session. And he said, you have an assignment for the rest of the day. And I was like, okay.
And he was like, you need to go to the beach, like go somewhere and actually lay your entire body down on the sand. He was like, I know, like nobody wants to get sandy, but like lay on the sand. And I was like, tell me why.
And he was like, if you lay on the sand, it's your body touching the earth. And God gave you the earth as a battery pack. And this battery pack literally is going to shoot energy back into your body that your body has been deprived of.
And like, there's, he started going into all the studies for it, but he was like, don't you ever know the difference? Like, and how you feel when you've been cooped up at work all day. And then like, you go on a vacation to the beach and you sit on the beach and you put your feet in moving water.
He was like, it's literal living water. This living water moves and it heals and rejuvenates what happens to water that stagnant. It gets disgusting. Yeah.
It turns to mold, right? It actually goes toxic, but that moving water is healing. It's living.
It's rejuvenating. It's very biblical, right? And then you have the earth that God gave you is this battery pack.
There are people, this is going to sound crazy, but there are who have done LSD, like psychedelic drugs that talk about the vibrations of the earth. When they're on this drug, they are seeing the way. And they talk about there's a magnetic field.
They like, you can read, you can watch videos. You can see studies of people who did LSD, who literally can see the energy that the ground gives you. I mean, it's crazy, but isn't it like the Lord, right?
To give us what we need in nature, like magic.
Laura Dugger: (35:49 - 37:17)
Yes. Where we're going back to the way that he designed, whether that's eating whole foods or getting outside in his beautiful nature. There's countless benefits, but I think it's just amazing that taking your shoes off and being on the earth, even for 30 seconds is beneficial.
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You had also talked about previously with your health journey, being deficient in minerals, I think you said as well, or just not getting the nutrients. So, are there any minerals that we all are likely lacking or any that you would recommend from your research and experience?
Laura Jean Bell: (37:18 - 39:36)
Yeah, I would, I mean, every mineral. The most underrated mineral right now is potassium. The amount of women who are potassium deficient and need more potassium is unreal.
But magnesium is huge. You have to have magnesium for your body to even naturally produce vitamin D. Like vitamin D is a hormone, but you have to have magnesium for your body to produce vitamin D.
How many have gone to the doctor and they're like, you are very low in vitamin D, right? Well, get in the sunshine more, take the supplement, but like, where's your magnesium, right? And so, magnesium, potassium, potassium is huge, especially for your mental health.
This is really going to help you in like balancing out, like you're removing the brain fog, really. Sodium, which everyone's like, eat less sodium. You need less sodium chloride.
You need less table salt. You don't need less salt. Your body has salt.
Your body needs salt. Think about what your t-shirt looks like when you drenched in sweat. It dries and what does it have?
Salt. It's salty, right? When you're sweaty, it's salty.
And it's because your body actually needs sodium. It has to have it. And so, stop using white table salt, like iodized salt.
Go get some quality Celtic salt, like really simple, but put that in your water. Like first thing in the morning, drink some water with some Celtic salt, like get those electrolytes back in your system. So, potassium, magnesium, sodium, and calcium, like your body needs calcium and you can get calcium in multiple ways, um, multiple ways, but calcium is going to support your bones.
It's going to help support your muscles. Cause if you are working those muscles, your body needs the strength. And so, calcium is going to give you that balance as well.
It's fantastic. So, all of them, but like, I think the make sure you're getting magnesium, just like if you just need to start somewhere, just get a magnesium supplement. I recommend magnesium glycinate because it's kind of the overall magnesium.
Laura Dugger: (39:37 - 39:44)
So, it's great. Okay. And you said you can get calcium multiple places.
Do you take that as a supplement or where do you get your calcium?
Laura Jean Bell: (39:45 - 41:04)
So, I actually do adrenal cocktails. So, that is, um, coconut water, orange juice and Celtic salt. That's it.
And just do a little adrenal cocktail in the morning. And in the afternoon, make sure that you have had protein before you drink it, because if you're anything like me, it'll spike your blood sugar. Um, if you're not balanced, so, you need to be balanced.
Um, I've always been very sensitive to things like orange juice, apple juice. Like as a kid, I would feel really bad in the mornings and I just thought breakfast made my stomach hurt. And actually it was like, my blood sugar was dysregulated from the cup of orange juice and the cinnamon toast that my mom gave me.
Right. So, like, it's like butter, sugar, white flour, orange juice, like eat this for a nutrient dense breakfast. And I like would feel horrible after because my blood sugar was off.
So, um, make sure you get some protein on your stomach and drink the adrenal cocktail. Like my parents, my parents swear by it. My dad's like, this has changed my life.
I'm your mom's going to make me one of those little cocktail things that you tell, I tell her about all the time. It's hilarious. And I'm like, it's just juice and coconut water, but it's got the minerals.
That's why it makes you feel so good. It's because it's giving your body the nutrients that it needs.
Laura Dugger: (41:05 - 41:17)
That's incredible. Are there any other biohacks, health hacks, even the role of light that it plays or movement or anything else that you want to recommend with your extensive research?
Laura Jean Bell: (41:18 - 43:19)
Um, I'll give two things. Uh, number one: if you can get up as the sun is rising or a little bit before and actually go outside and stare at the red light. The actual, morning sunrise, and then watch the sunset. If you can get your eyeballs on just like the surroundings where that red light is hitting, that will do wonders for the production of melatonin in your gut.
It's going to help you sleep. It's going to help you sleep really good at night, which is going to help you with your progesterone levels. So, that is great.
Number two is weightlifting. If you can incorporate at least two days a week of heavy weightlifting into your routine, it's going to do wonders. And the reason I say that is that estrogen, toxic estrogen, not the estrogen that's good for you that you need to like make you female, but like the toxic estrogens you're getting from perfumes and food and plastics and all the things it stores itself in fat, in visceral fat.
And so, the best way to burn fat and build muscle is by lifting weights. And so, if you want to keep toxic estrogens out of your body, step number one, get rid of fat, like fight hard for like, I mean, I'm still postpartum. I'm still burning off like weight that I gained in pregnancy.
But the number one thing that motivates me is not like, I want to look better, which of course I want to look better. Of course I want to fit back into my clothes, like all of that. But like Laura toxic estrogens store themselves in this fat.
And so, what, when you are lifting weights, you are burning fat and building muscle to support your family and not be burdened by the imbalance of your hormones. Like right there. That is the reason why.
So, lift weights. It's so good for you. It protects you from so many other diseases, but like that alone, women do not understand the power of that.
It's going to do wonders for you.
Laura Dugger: (43:20 - 43:47)
Okay. This is so helpful. And then I'm thinking it's beneficial to have a specific plan.
So, as we think about where you talked about laundry detergents or limiting toxins, will you share a few of your personal favorite products? And then also what are some recommended things we can actually eat? Like when you walk through a healthy breakfast, lunch, dinner, snack, what would you share?
Laura Jean Bell: (43:49 - 45:22)
Okay. So, some favorite products. I started out using Thieves household concentrate.
Young Living sells it. And it's like $26 for a bottle of the concentrate. That concentrate can be household cleaner.
So, like it can clean any surface in your home. It can be used as dishwasher detergent. So, we use thieves instead of like pods in our, in our dishwasher.
And I'm here to tell you, I think Young Living just came out with dishwasher pods, like Thieves dishwasher pods. We don't use it. We still use the concentrate.
But we use that. You can use it in your laundry so you can wash your clothes in it. And so, we alternate with that.
Sometimes we use that. Sometimes we use Molly's Suds. Those are like little pods.
You can get them on Amazon. It's a non-toxic option. You can also wash your clothes and like baking soda and vinegar, like just be old school.
Your clothes won't smell like vinegar. Don't worry. Like the vinegar gets rid of the odor.
That's like how our grandparents did it. So, those are some really simple hacks. Just because that's inexpensive.
Like you can make 16, I think it's 16 bottles of household concentrate, like spray with the one bottle. So, like you buy the one bottle, it takes a cap full and then you fill the rest of the way up with water and it cleans anything. It's fantastic.
It smells great. You'll love it. What else did you ask me?
Laura Dugger: (45:22 - 45:28)
Food? Yes, food. Like a sample menu. Okay.
Laura Jean Bell: (45:28 - 47:02)
Something that I love to eat. I love to just really enjoy my food. Like if you're on the go, like I'll give it an example.
If you're on the go, I recommend like boil some eggs. Okay. Take like three boiled eggs.
Get like a chopstick to get your protein and like an RX bar. RX bars are going to have the carbs, but it's also going to have more protein. You'll get six grams of protein per egg and then about 10 grams in your chopstick.
So, it's like 18 grams of the eggs plus 10 is 28 grams plus the RX bar. You're going to get over 30 grams of protein and then you'll have some carbs. I do recommend getting a little bit more carbs, but if you're on the go and you're in a hurry and you need to feel balanced, that's a good start.
If you're home, like I love doing scrambled eggs and air frying sweet potatoes, peppers, and onions. It is delicious. Just trust me and season it with garlic powder and salt.
It's so simple. Some avocado oil and literally just allow, like think about all the carbs, all the protein, everything. The best hack though, that I learned with eggs is do two regular, like the full egg and then do two egg whites and then add cottage cheese to your eggs, blend it in a blender and then cook them and just thank me later.
So, you're getting extra protein, it's creamier, it's so good. And then eat that with sweet potatoes and peppers and it's primo.
Laura Dugger: (47:02 - 47:12)
Okay. This sounds amazing. I love it.
And this is my post recording meal, the RX bar. I love it on busy days.
Laura Jean Bell: (47:13 - 48:27)
Yes. For lunch, I mean lunch, I honestly, I keep like ground beef patties just ready. And my air fryer stays on. I literally use it for every meal.
Sometimes if I don't have it ready, I just pat it out, put it in the air fryer, it cooks. Do that with a bunch of veggies, get lots of fruit, mainly berries, like berries, apples, and just adding that in is your carb. You can do, if you need a snack, I highly recommend doing Greek yogurt and mixing in your favorite protein powder and mixing that up.
It's so good. The Greek yogurt gives you the carbs, the fats and protein, and then you add the extra protein in it. And so, it's excellent.
For dinner, our favorite meal, we eat a lot of grass-fed beef because we buy cow every year. So, we'll do bowls and we'll do like a bed of rice, sweet potatoes, peppers and onions, and then ground beef. And then we drizzle the Japanese barbecue sauce over it.
And we call it Japanese barbecue bowls. It's literally just like a bunch of vegetables and meat with sauce, but it's really good.
So, there's some meal ideas for you.
Laura Dugger: (48:28 - 48:49)
That's incredible. Thank you for just rattling those off. We've got a plan now.
And I love how this conversation took a turn toward health. So, before we leave that section, any other healthy rhythms or best practices or ways you've simplified your life that you would recommend? Just sleep.
Laura Jean Bell: (48:49 - 49:34)
I know that sounds ridiculous, but people aren't sleeping and go to bed without your phone. You're going to be okay. You really are.
If your kids can go to bed without their phones, without a phone in their face, you can do it too. It's not the best way to turn your brain off. So, go to bed.
When you lay in a dark room without any blue light, you actually are helping your nervous system reset itself. And it needs a moment to rest and digest. So, get in the bed without a blue light and close your eyes and go to sleep.
You can do it, but it's so simple. And try to get eight to 10 hours of sleep a night. Truly, it's so important.
Laura Dugger: (49:35 - 49:54)
That's so good. And you're all about simplifying. You even help people simplify their digital marketing.
So, as we turn it back to business, I know you can't give away all of your secrets, but will you share just a few more business or social media tips with all of us?
Laura Jean Bell: (49:55 - 50:43)
Oh, man. I think the number one thing that I would tell anyone who's wanting to do anything in the online space is don't spread yourself across every platform. It's not worth your time.
And the more you hone in on one thing, the more of that thing you will sell, like plain and simple. And you will make way more money. You will spend way less time working on it.
You will enhance the lives of the people that choose to work with you. That is what you will gain.
If you simplify your offers, number one, sell less. Just sell more of one thing and stop spreading yourself thin across all the platforms. It's just too much work.
Laura Dugger: (50:43 - 51:03)
That's wise counsel. And will you also tell us, I mean, I'm amazed as I'm thinking of all this research that you've done. You're living a healthy lifestyle.
You're raising young children, consulting with others as their coach. Also, you wrote a book. Can you share a little bit about that?
Laura Jean Bell: (51:03 - 52:50)
I wrote my book. I actually have it right next to me because I was like, if somebody is going to ask you what this book is about, it's a book of short stories. And it sounds really simple, but it's a book of short stories that really draws you back to who you are in the Lord and understanding your place, like your identity in Christ, your belonging, fighting against fear and really coming home to who God created you to be.
And so, this book is a compilation of short stories of my own life where these things were very disrupted. My identity, like a total identity crisis, like not just having so much fear, learning how to come back to who God made me to be, but really writing out the moments of when I was living in that season and the people that helped me kind of find my way out and the things that God really showed me in that journey. And so, have it right here.
You Can Always Come Home: Following the Breadcrumbs of Your Past to Find the Hope for Your Tomorrow. It's really what my heart was and I learned a lot when I left my hometown and I moved to small town, North Alabama. And although this is where my dad is from, this was not where I was raised.
And I walked into a total identity crisis when I moved here. And I write a lot about that and about the moments when I was living in that season. How the Lord would reveal to me, like, remember when this happened, or remember when this happened and how you handled it or what that person said to you. And I wrote those stories in here.
And so, the goal of this book is for anybody who reads it to know that God's on your side and everything's going to be okay.
Laura Dugger: (52:51 - 53:06)
Thank you for sharing that, Laura. And we'll certainly add a link for that in the show notes for today's episode, but also what links can we give for your social media? And then if somebody wants to reach out and work with you, what would that process look like?
Laura Jean Bell: (53:07 - 53:47)
Yeah, so, my Instagram is Laura_Jean_Bell and Jean is J-E-A-N. And if you want to work with me or reach out, you can email me at laurabellwrites@gmail.com, or you can literally go to my Instagram account and click the link in my bio where I explain what I do. And it offers an ability to hop on a call with me where we can talk together and see if we would be a good fit to work together.
So, those are the ways that you can contact me. I have a website, laurabell.co, and you can contact me through that as well.
Laura Dugger: (53:48 - 54:07)
Wonderful. Thank you for adding that. We will make sure it's accessible for everyone.
And Laura, you may be familiar with why we're called The Savvy Sauce, which is because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, my final question for you today, Laura, what is your Savvy Sauce?
Laura Jean Bell: (54:09 - 56:38)
For life in general? You got it. Okay.
Well, I have two of them. And so, one of them is kind of silly and one of them is not. So, I'm going to go with the non-silly one.
Oh, share both. Yes. But I will say like this, there was this line that I heard, and I don't know who like trademarked this line, but it was very simple.
It said, “You are the CEO of your life.” And it was very simple, but it changed everything for me because for so much of my life, like if your knee jerk reaction to things not going your way is to blame someone else, you're not living as the CEO of your life. And I have spent a lot of my life, like when something doesn't go my way, I look for a person to blame instead of looking at myself and my own flaws. Being able to see that, “Hey, sometimes Laura, you're to blame and like, it's okay.”
You're the CEO of your life and you get to see what you did wrong, see how you messed up, see how you needed to shift something and then move on. And I think so many of us, whether we want to believe it or not, we can fall victim to that and live our lives so attached to this idea that somebody else is always to blame. Somebody else did this to me.
Sometimes things do happen to you that are not your fault. Sometimes you are a victim of horrible crimes and horrible things happening to you. But the question is, what are you going to do about it?
Who are you going to talk to about it? Are you going to go to the Lord and ask Him what it's actually supposed to look like for your life moving on from this place? Are you going to stay in a mindset that's small and traumatized, small and victimized?
Or are you going to say, “I'm the CEO of my life and I'm going to link arms with the Holy Spirit and keep moving forward.” And so, that was a huge thing for me to learn. And I feel like it's kind of been my savvy sauce in the last probably year, because 2024 was a year of a lot of things happening to me that weren't my fault.
And finally, one day I thought, you know, Laura, you can sulk in this, but it's not going to change your circumstance. What's going to change your circumstance is you saying, “I'm in charge of my life and I'm going to pick up the pieces of this and I'm going to ask God what to do with it.” And so, anyways, you're the CEO of your life and it's time to take charge of that.
So, yeah.
Laura Dugger: (56:38 - 56:42)
I love it. And now you've got to share your silly one as well. You've left us curious.
Laura Jean Bell: (56:43 - 57:01)
What is The Savvy Sauce? Let me just tell all of my, all of my geriatric millennials out there, you need to put castor oil on your face. Okay.
Just know that like castor oil, you need to look like a glazed donut when you go to bed and your skin is going to be, your skin will thank you. Just trust me.
Laura Dugger: (57:02 - 57:26)
That's incredible. I was so grateful you shared. And Laura, I can see why clients are so drawn to work with you.
It is so delightful to have conversations with you. You are gifted in so many different arenas. And I think what really stands out is your generosity and just your willingness to share all of this with us.
So, thank you so much for being my delightful guest today.
Laura Jean Bell: (57:26 - 57:29)
Oh, it's such a gift talking to you. Thank you for having me.
Laura Dugger: (57:30 - 1:01:12)
One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.
Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.
We need a savior, but God loved us so much. He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.
That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life. We could never live and died in our place for our sin.
This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished. If we choose to receive what he has done for us, Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
So, you pray with me now. Heavenly father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you.
Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus name we pray.
Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me. So, me for him, you get the opportunity to live your life for him.
And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you're ready to get started.
First, tell someone, say it out loud, get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes and Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.
You can start by reading the book of John. Also get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So, feel free to leave a comment for us here. If you did make a decision to follow Christ, we also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.
And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “in the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Aug 25, 2025
Monday Aug 25, 2025
267. Apologetics with Ray Comfort
Acts 4:20 NKJV "For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.”
**Transcription Below**
Ray Comfort is a best selling author - having written over 100 books, including his most recent one, entitled Fifty Years of Open-Air Preaching: Everything I've Learned. He is a cohost of an award-winning television show that airs in 190 countries.
Questions and Topics We Cover:
- What are some memorable encounters you've had over the years as an open-air preacher?
- What fears do you notice holding believers back from evangelizing?
- What's an easy win or next step we can take today so that the inspiration from this conversation turns into action?
Related Episodes on The Savvy Sauce:
- School Series (Legal) Gospel Sharing During School Hours with Joel Penton
- Stories Series: Faith Building Miracles with Dave Pridemore
- Stories Series: Testify to Glorify with Richard Gamble
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Connect with The Savvy Sauce Facebook, Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
Music: (0:00 – 0:09)
Laura Dugger: (0:10 - 1:18)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at lemanproperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
I'm delighted with this opportunity to interview my special guest for today, Mr. Ray Comfort. Ray is a best-selling author of over 100 books, one of which we'll be discussing today, about 50 years of open-air preaching.
He's also a co-host of an award-winning television show that airs in over 190 countries around the world. So, I'm pleased to welcome Ray Comfort and get to hear all of his stories and inspiration. Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Ray.
Ray Comfort: (1:19 - 1:27)
Well, thank you for having me. Can you explain Savvy Sauce to me? Absolutely.
That means knowledge, knowledge poured out.
Laura Dugger: (1:27 - 1:46)
Well, savvy is synonymous with practical or insight. And my husband having a background in Chick-fil-A, people always talk about the Chick-fil-A sauce or the secret sauce. And so, when we were creating this podcast, that just became the favorite question that I wanted to ask every guest.
Ray Comfort: (1:47 - 1:50)
Oh, that's great. Yeah, it's great to be with you. Thanks for having me on.
Laura Dugger: (1:51 - 2:00)
It's truly my pleasure. And I just love how everybody has a unique testimony. So, would you be willing to share your salvation story with us?
Ray Comfort: (2:01 - 4:47)
Yeah, sure. I came from a non-Christian background. My mother was Jewish.
My dad was Gentile. And when my mom met my dad, it caused problems in the family. So, they brought me up with no Christian instruction or any instruction whatsoever.
Until at the age of 10, an aunt taught me the Lord's Prayer, which I prayed every night for 10 years. I believed in God. And at the age of about 20, 21, I had an epiphany, just a revelation that I was part of the ultimate statistic.
10 out of 10 die. And I thought, this is ridiculous. We're all waiting around to die.
And you can have fun while you're dying. You can play sports or save money. And I'd achieved everything I wanted to achieve by the age of 21.
I had my own business and my own house, my own wife. I'd made one child by then. Everything material I could want.
And I remember one night just going to sleep, or my wife had gone to sleep just before I went to sleep. I looked at my wife, we're newly married, and I just wept at the thought of her dying. And I just cried out, why?
Why is this thing called death? It's like there's an elephant in the room stomping on all humanity and nobody talks about it. And so, I cried out, why?
I didn't know I was praying. I didn't know God heard. And six months later, I was on a surfing trip, and there was a young Christian guy there, and he had a Bible, and I remember reading parts of it.
And my eyes fell upon, you've heard it said, by them of old you shall not commit adultery. And I thought, well, if there is a heaven, I'll make it there because I've never committed adultery. But then I read the words of Jesus, but I say to you, whoever looks upon a woman to lust for her has committed adultery already with her in his heart.
And it was like an arrow went into my chest. And I thought, whoa, boy, am I undone. Because like every red-blooded male, I was filled with unlawful sexual desire and eyes full of adultery, as scripture says.
And that's when I understood the cross. I realized I had sinned. Jesus bore my sin.
And we broke the law, the commandments. Jesus paid the fine. And that meant God could forgive my sins, grant me everlasting life.
And I cannot express to you the joy, it was unspeakable, that's why I can't express it, that I had and the knowledge my sins were forgiven. It was like an explosion of gratitude filled my heart. And for the last 50 years, it's been the high-octane fuel that's driven me to live for God's will and honor.
So everywhere I go and everything I do is centered around sharing the gospel with unsaved people. And every Christian should be like that. I call myself a normal, biblical Christian.
Laura Dugger: (4:48 - 4:59)
I love that. Well, and something that you speak about and that you live out is open-air preaching. And I just want to read a piece from the dedication page, if that's okay.
Ray Comfort: (5:01 - 5:03)
So, make sure you speak in a New Zealand accent.
Laura Dugger: (5:03 - 5:28)
Oh, goodness. I won't even attempt. But you define open-air preaching saying, going somewhere I don't want to go, to preach a message I don't want to preach, to people who don't want to hear it, but the love of Christ compels me.
And so, Ray, what was your journey to becoming an open-air preacher?
Ray Comfort: (5:30 - 9:18)
Well, I'll go back to when I was 16. I was in high school, and the teacher had the bright idea to have class speeches. And I was horrified at the thought of class speeches.
Have to get up and make a speech? Because I was kind of introverted, and the day came when I got caught. I used to stay away when they had class speeches, but my name was left on the roster, and it was last.
And the teacher got me up, and I thought I'll speak on the subject of surfing because I just loved surfing. And I dried up in the middle of that speech. My heart just went thump, thump, thump, thump till I could hardly hear.
It was like a drum beating, and I couldn't think straight. And I sat down humiliated in front of my peers at the age of 16, which is huge. And I vowed never, ever to speak in public again.
But I got born again. I became a new person in Christ. And I had a message that I could not be quiet about.
And I remember one day I was on a bus going to the city, and I remember looking at the people that were sitting on the bus, and I thought most of them probably not Christians. They die. They're going to Hell.
I've found everlasting life. I should stand up and speak to them. And I thought the bus would stop, and a whole lot of them would throw me off.
And I thought, what do I do? And I remember praying, oh, God, if there's just some way where I could speak in public to people knowing there wasn't. And two weeks later, they legalized public speaking in our city through just strange circumstances.
And I thought, whoa, what an answer to prayer. Horrors. And I remember avoiding any thought of going into that speaker's corner for the next two weeks until I opened a newspaper.
Remember what newspapers were? I opened a newspaper and had a picture of an elderly lady with a Bible in her hand, and underneath it had the Bible lady sharing her Christian testimony in speaker's corner. And I felt so ashamed that here was an elderly lady, and here I was hiding like Jonah.
So, I went in, took a deep breath, and preached the gospel to a crowd that was standing or sitting there. And I went back about 3,000 times and commuted to it for about 12 years, almost daily for 12 years. So, I broke the sound barrier, and I've been doing it ever since.
And I'll tell you why I do it, because the average church wouldn't reach as many people in a year as a good open-air preacher can reach in 30 minutes. And you just have to learn how to draw a crowd and what to say, and you've got to have the will to say it. And if you're a Christian and you've found everlasting life, you should be saying with the disciples, I cannot but speak that which I've seen and heard.
And I'm so glad the disciples didn't stay in the upper room. They found everlasting life. God granted eternal life.
They didn't carpet out the room, put in pipe music, with a little notice outside their door, tonight, 7 o'clock, all welcome. They didn't do that, because they knew fish don't jump into the boat. That's not normal.
If you're a fisher of men, you've got to go where the fish are. So, they went open-air and preached. And as you read the book of Acts, that's all they did.
They preached open air at peril of their lives. And so if we want to walk in the steps of Jesus, in the steps of the disciples, in the steps of Spurgeon, Wesley, Moody, Whitfield, others down through the ages, then we've got to open our mouths and lift up our voice like a trumpet and show these people their transgression. And so, I am thrilled that you want to do an interview on this book, because I've often said the church has as much excitement about evangelism as you and I have about having a root canal.
It's not exciting. But we all have fears, and we can learn to overcome them.
Laura Dugger: (9:18 - 9:38)
Ray, you make already such a compelling argument for why we as Christians are called to evangelize and deliver the good news and specifically calling it as open-air preachers. So, will you still share a few more arguments or reasons to try and help people understand why this is of utmost importance?
Ray Comfort: (9:39 - 10:47)
Yes, we have a moral obligation. We're like doctors with a cure to cancer. We must speak, as the disciples said.
And if you've got fear, let me ask you a question. Could you jump into a pond that had big chunks of ice in it? It was so cold that you would die if you stayed in it for three minutes.
And most people say, no, no, you wouldn't get me jumping into that pond for anything. Let's say a four-year-old boy fell into that pond and his feet couldn't reach the bottom, and he began to drown. You wouldn't hesitate.
You'd just jump in. You wouldn't worry about how cold it was. Grab that kid and pull him out.
And the waters of personal evangelism are freezing. Ice cold. We're not excited about it.
Last thing we ever want to do is get involved in something like this. But love cannot but do something. Love couldn't stand there and watch a child drown.
And love cannot sit on a pew while sinners sink into Hell. So, if you've got problems with fear, don't pray for less fear. Pray for more love because that's the problem.
Laura Dugger: (10:48 - 11:02)
Ray, I'm curious. You seem so confident and comfortable with this, but clearly you've been doing it, like you said, for many years. So, was there fear at the beginning for you?
And is there still fear when you do this today?
Ray Comfort: (11:03 - 18:09)
No, there wasn't fear at the beginning. Fear is here. Terror is here.
Mortification is here. I was up there somewhere. So, the first time I did it was terrifying.
Second time wasn't quite so terrifying. But after all these years, I still battle fear, always. Every person I got a witness to on a one-to-one basis looks like Goliath.
It goes from a Zacchaeus to a Goliath in a split second. I think a witness to that guy, he's anti-Christian. I can see it by the look on his jawline.
He hates Christians. Can't wait to get his fingers around the neck of any Christian because I've got overripe imagination. I remember once I was driving my car and I saw a dead dog on the road about 100 yards ahead of me and it was such a sad sight.
I could see its head was all twisted back and I could see its ears. It was a German shepherd. And as I got up to it, it was someone's jacket that had fallen off his bike.
That's all. And I just had an overripe imagination. And that's exactly what it's like when it comes to fear.
I have an imagination that some guy's going to kill me if I share the gospel with him. So, I've learned to not listen when fear speaks. I've learned to think about the fate of the person rather than myself.
I mean, think of a firefighter. He arrives at a fire, and he looks up and he has to climb a 60-foot ladder. At the top of the ladder is a woman and two children leaning out of a window and the place is on fire.
It's the fifth story. And they're screaming because they're going to be burned alive in about three minutes. So, he's got to climb that ladder amidst the screaming, amidst the smoke and the sirens.
He could drop one of those kids. He could drop that woman. And so, would he rather be at home with his wife and kids watching an old black-and-white movie?
Of course. Is he terrified? Absolutely.
But he doesn't listen to his fears because of this one fact. He's not thinking of himself. He's thinking of that woman and her terrible fate and those kids.
And that's the key to overcoming fear. When I get my fears, I don't listen because I'm not thinking of myself and my silly little fears, my imagination. I'm thinking of this person and their terrible fate, that they die in their sins.
Lake of fire. Damned. If you think death is fearful on this side, wait till the other side.
It's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. And the apostle Paul said, Wherefore, knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. So, if you've got a wrong image of God, it's kind of like a Santa Claus sitting in a cloud.
You won't have a terror in your heart. You won't fear God enough to obey him. You know, Jesus said, “Why do you call me Lord and do not the things that I tell you?”
And so, if we are submitted to Christ, if we yield to him, if he's our Lord, when he says, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” We go. He didn't say to stay. Think of what he said.
Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. I've actually studied the original Greek words of the word all, every, and go. Go actually means in the original, I think it's passe.
The original Greek, it actually means go. Into all the world and all the world. That word all means all in the original Greek.
And to every creature means every creature. So, when Jesus said, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature”, in the original Greek, he actually was saying, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” So, we're so fortunate to have Greek lexicons and things that we can go back and see what Jesus was actually saying.
And so, it's very simple. We shouldn't stay. We shouldn't want to fill our churches with people when they come in, where to go out and get them.
And one of the most effective ways is with open air preaching. And so, we teach people how to get a crowd. Now, when I first started speaking, I would begin open air preaching with an anecdote, something very gripping.
And it was always difficult because if I didn't live up to that, I didn't get a crowd. And so, for about four or five or six years, it was very difficult. And then I started asking trivia and giving away money.
And I've been doing that for 30, 40 years, where you say to a crowd, I've got some trivia questions, giving away money. And a preacher giving away money is like water running uphill. It's kind of unnatural, so it gets people's attention.
So, I'm going to ask trivia questions. I've got money here to give away. When you get it right. What's the capital of France? Anyone know?
And someone says, “Paris?” That's right.
Here you are. What's the capital of China? Beijing or whatever it is.
Give out a dollar. Say, “What's your name?” Fred.
That's right. And you give Fred a dollar and people laugh, and they gather around and it's just a great way to get rapport with a crowd. And while you're doing that, you look around to see who's got confidence.
This guy over here, or Fred, laughs when I say, “Here's a dollar, and he yells out answers.” I say, “Fred, you want to go for $5?” He says, “Sure.”
So, jump up on the box. So, we've got a box for the hecklers. So, you think you're a good person?
He says, “Yeah, I'm a really good person.” So, if you are, you get $5. If you're not, give me $5 anyway.
Just being a good sport. So, we're going to go through the Ten Commandments to see how you're going to do on Judgment Day and if you are a good person. Let me take him through the commandments as Jesus did with the rich young ruler.
How many lies have you told? Ever stole something? Ever used God's name in vain?
Ever looked at women with lust? And Fred says, “Yeah, I've done all those.” So, Fred, you've just told me you're a lying thief, a blasphemer, and an adulterer at heart.
And you have to face God on Judgment Day. You're going to be innocent or guilty? He says, “Guilty.”
Heaven or Hell? Hell. Does that concern you?
Yeah, sure it does. And the crowd's listening. It's not some sweaty preacher pointing a finger at them.
They're just listening to the gospel. And so, it's a great way. And then you go into that Christ died for our sins, took our punishment.
And Fred, “Thanks for listening. I really appreciate this. Here's your dollar.”
I've got a book for you that I wrote. I hope you enjoy it. Nice to meet you.
He shook his hand. He's off. Anyone else, like any atheists here, never be intimidated by an atheist.
Atheism is the epitome of stupidity. It's just so dumb. Every time I meet an atheist, I ask him one question, and I've seen so many atheists backslide when they've heard this.
I say, “Do you really believe the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything? Puppies and kittens and flowers and seeds and the marvels of the human eye and the miracle of childbirth. All this happened because nothing created it. Do you really believe that?”
They say, “Oh, no, I don't believe that. Oh, there was something in the beginning.”
I say, “Oh, it just wasn't God. Is that it?” Yeah, that's it.
It was something, but it wasn't God. Well, let's see if we can find out why you don't want it to be God. When did you last look at pornography?
I say, “Oh, it was last night. What do you think God thinks of that?” And you realize the issue isn't intellectual.
It's moral. They're running from God like Adam, hiding behind bushes. And so, you've just got to flush them out and then use the Ten Commandments to bring the knowledge of sin and address the conscience rather than the intellect.
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As you've done this, what has been your experience along the way? And would you even share a few stories of times that this has gone miraculously well and times that have been such a struggle?
Ray Comfort: (20:19 - 30:16)
It's always a struggle. But let me share the two great keys that I use when it comes to evangelism. I don't even like using the word evangelism because it scares Christians.
Apologetics. And that is this. I address the conscience, as Jesus did.
When you're in apologetics, and I believe in apologetics, we've got what's called the Evidence Study Bible, which is pregnant with apologetics. So, I believe in apologetics, but they have their place. Apologetics are like bait when you're fishing for men.
If you stay with bait, you're going to end up with fat, happy fish that get away. You've got to have a hook, and that hook is God's law. So, you bait the hook.
And so, it's important if you bait the hook with apologetics and address the intellect to realize this one fact. Romans 8:7 says, “The carnal mind is enmity against God, for it's not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.” What does that mean?
It means the carnal, natural mind of man is in a state of hostility towards God, particularly His law. It's not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. And you can see this enmity by the fact that human beings lavished with life by God use His name as a cuss word, and the name of Jesus as a cuss word.
Nobody in history has had their name used as a cuss word except Jesus, Jesus Christ, and God. And that shows the enmity they have towards their Creator because they're criminals. And as criminals hate the police, so sinners hate God without cause.
So, you want to move away from the carnal mind because you're going to get enmity. If you say, “Look, I'm going to show you that Noah did build an ark. I'm going to prove it to you there was a big flood.” And so you go through the whole thing that the ark was really big and the animals were small and it could have happened. Then we've got oceans and that's evidence that the earth was flooded. You get this guy who was a skeptic who'd say, “Okay, I believe there was a big flood and Noah could have built an ark.”
Well, great. Now you've got a mountain to climb of Jonah being swallowed by a big fish. Children of Israel shouting and walls coming down when they shout.
Balaam's donkey speaking with a man's voice. Samson with strength in his hair. And you've got all these stories, and they're all an intellectual thing, and they're like a mountain you've got to climb to convince them to believe there's an easier way.
And the early Christians didn't try and convince anyone the Bible is the word of God because they didn't have a New Testament. There was no printing press. No one could read or hardly anyone could read.
Now they just preached the gospel, and you do it not by going for the intellect and trying to intellectually convince someone that God exists or the Bible's the word of God. You do what Jesus did with a rich young ruler. You address the conscience with the commandments.
You shall not lie, shall not steal, shall not commit adultery. It's all written on the heart of man. Conscience means knowledge.
So that knowledge is there. So, the commandments echo the truth, or the conscience echoes the truth of the commandments. When Paul used the commandments in Romans chapter 2, you who say you shall not steal, do you steal?
You say, “You shall not commit adultery; do you commit adultery?” He was addressing the conscience. Romans 2:15, same chapter, would show the work of the law written on their hearts, the conscience bearing witness.
So, I have an ally right in the heart of the enemy. I have a judge on the court and in the mind of every sinner that's going to affirm the truth of what I'm saying and point guilt to the sinner or show him that he's guilty. That's the conscience.
The second great tool I have or weapon I have is the will to live. Human beings are not dogs, horses, cats, or cows. We're completely different.
We're not primates. We're made in the image of God and God has written eternity upon our hearts. He doesn't seem to have done this with my dog.
My dog's only concerned with chasing cats and eating. I don't think there's anything else that really interests her, although I love her, but she's not worrying about eternity, but human beings do. So, I know, according to scripture, that everybody has this will to live.
So, when I go to the local college, and I go there twice a day, to interview people for our YouTube channel. I often say this, “Would you like to go on YouTube?” They say, “Yeah.”
I'm going to ask you, “If you think there's life after death.” I say, “That's okay, and this is my first question. Are you afraid of dying?”
And they go, “A little bit.” A little bit? It's huge.
It's a tormenting fear of death. It haunts you, and that's what the Bible says, this fear of death that we have. And I can tell by the look in the eyes of this person, they're saying, “How did this guy know?”
I haven't told mom or dad. I haven't told my boyfriend or my girlfriend, my brother, my sister, but there's something in me that's terrified of dying. Hebrews 2:14-15 tells us.
Amplified Bible, so I'll quote it a little louder. It says, “That God has caused the fear of death or the will to live to be haunting,” it uses the word haunting, “within every human being all their lifetime.” Remember when I was a kid, maybe nine or ten, I used to play wars, cowboys and Indians, and someone would shoot me. I'd roll down a hill and lie there for two minutes and then get up.
And then one day as I got older, I thought, I'm not going to get up one day. And that's that haunting fear of death. That revelation that comes to us, as light comes to us, as we get older. And so, I address that, and this is what I say, “Ever read the Bible?”
“No, never opened it.”
“Why not? It's the world's biggest selling book of all time. Did you know in the Old Testament, God promised he would destroy death? And in the New Testament, we're told how he did it. Did you know that?”
They say, “No.”
“Is he interested?”
And even if it's an atheist, he's going to say, “Yeah, I'm interested.” Because he's got that haunting fear of death. And so, then I go through the gospel. This is the verse that I share with so many people, and it's the most illuminating verse, and I can see light coming to them as I say this.
I say, “Have you ever heard the Bible verse, the wages of sin is death?” And they say, “Maybe.” It's saying that God is paying you in death for your sins.
Like a judge who looks at a criminal who's committed murder, but he thinks he's a good person. The judge says, “I'm going to show you how serious your crime is. I'm giving you the death sentence.”
This is your wages. This is what you've earned. And I say, “Fred, sin is so serious to a holy God, he's given you the death sentence.”
You're on death row. You're in a holding cell. It's got a nice blue roof, good air conditioning, good lighting, but this life is a holding cell, and your death will be evidence to you that God is deadly serious about sin.
That has a sobering effect on people because now they've got a reason why they die. Now they know what's going to happen after they die. It's appointed a man.
It's appointment. It's appointed a man who wants to die, and after this, the judgment. And as you go through the commandments, it shows them how they need a Savior.
And so many people say, I'm going to really think about this. Thank you for talking to me. I say, “When are you going to repent and put your trust in Jesus?”
And so many people lately have been saying, “Today.” So, the pandemic, that plague that no one calls a plague, the pandemic did us a huge favor because it made a whole generation think about their mortality, made them realize they're going to die one day. And so, the harvest fields are white.
One other thought regarding the fear of death and the will to live, the same thing. Think of a waitress who has to approach three men, businessmen wearing dark suits and little briefcases sitting at a table. They're obviously wheeling and dealing millions of dollars.
Is she intimidated? No. She just walks up and says, “Can I take your order?”
Why is she so bold? It's because she knows she has what they want. They're there for food.
And so that makes her bold. And you and I have what this world wants. Right at this moment, there are people in torture chambers called gyms, lifting weights that are far too heavy for them, pulling things they shouldn't be pulling.
And I believe in physical fitness is great. And at the same time, there are people drinking green slime. They would love a chocolate shake, but they drink because they want to increase their life just that little bit more.
We have found everlasting life. So, if the world knew what we had, they would ask us. This is what Jesus said to the woman at the well.
If you knew who it was that was speaking to you, you would ask me. And if the world knew what we had, everlasting life, they'd plead with us. So, because we know we have what the world wants, like that waitress, we must be bold.
And when they realize that we have the answer to death that Jesus Christ has abolished death. When that revelation comes to them, what causes death. That Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, he destroyed death, bringing life and immortality to light through the gospel. That's when the light goes on and they say, “Thank you so much. Thank you for talking to me.” I've just about worn myself out.
Laura Dugger: (30:16 - 30:30)
Well, that's incredible to hear, especially the breakdown practically of how you do that. And I would say, “Do you even give people permission to use some of those examples if they want to give this a try?”
Ray Comfort: (30:31 - 31:18)
I would plead with them to do so. We've got the evidence Bible. It's filled with how to do these things.
And that book, Fifty Years of Open-Air Preaching: Everything I've Learned is filled with stuff like this. How to get a crowd standing up nice and orderly. There's a picture, I don't know if you can see it, at Berkeley University.
They're all standing around nice in a big circle. That's where you get stoned to death, Berkeley. But because we understand these principles, we just drew a circle out of chalk and said, stand behind the circle.
If anyone got in front of the circle, approached us, we wouldn't talk to them unless they got to the edge of the circle. And people are like sheep. If you say, “Move back behind the chalk line. Do it now.” Okay. They'll do it, if you've got a little bit of authority.
And so, you just learn to do things like that. And it means the gospel can go out. So yeah, please, please use these principles.
Laura Dugger: (31:19 - 31:34)
And then can you also just paint a picture. If somebody's never seen this before, they've never tried this before, are there any memorable encounters that you've had as you reflect back on these years of open air preaching?
Ray Comfort: (31:35 - 33:54)
Yes. Oh, I've got beaten up by a woman once. Oh dear.
I'll have to tell you. I was in Santa Monica many years ago, and I had a crowd of maybe 40, 50 people. And there's a woman there that was very vocal and kept calling me, using the F word a couple of times.
So, I said, “Ma'am, can you watch your language? There are ladies present.” And she said, “I'm a lady.”
I said, “Ma'am, you may be a woman, but you are not a lady.” And with that, she ran at me like a bat out of heaven and began beating me up. Now, most women go scratch, and hair pulling, but she was like Mike Tyson's sister. She got in six punches, knocked me to the ground before my team pulled her off.
They held her back. And she said, let me go and get my purse. They let her go.
And she gave me a kidney punch and took two weeks for the bruising to go, but she doubled my crowd. She can come back anytime she wants. But that was my fault.
And that was very memorable. So, I talk nicely to ladies now. One to one, one of the most memorable ones is a guy named Mario.
Our YouTube channel's got 1.57 million subscribers, just past 314 million views. And one of the best, most gripping encounters was with a guy named Mario. I went out on my bike.
My dog's on my bike. She's on a platform. She wears sunglasses.
I wear sunglasses. It gets people's attention. She's the best bait I've ever had when fishing for men.
Saw this guy standing by a tree on a pathway, and I said, “You want to come on camera?” He said, “Yeah.” I was surprised because I didn't have to talk him into it.
And he was quite arrogant, very handsome young man. And as we went through the commandments, I saw a tear well in his eye and roll down his cheek. And I thought, oh, no, God's doing a work in the heart of this guy, and I don't want to mess it up.
And so, I did my best to end up praying with him, and he was just beside himself in sorrow for his sin. And I think that's something like 4 million views on a YouTube channel. If you go to the most popular to see it, you'll see him there.
But that was a very memorable encounter. One that I often think when I'm going out on my bike each day. Lord, give me a Mario today, please.
Laura Dugger: (33:55 - 34:58)
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We appreciate you. It's compelling to hear this and inspiring, but then also if we're going back to talking about the fears. What fears do you see holding people back from giving this a try or from evangelizing in general?
Ray Comfort: (34:59 - 37:37)
That is a great question, and you provoke something very important. I've traveled on about 2,000 flights, itinerating over the years, and so many times I've prayed, and when there's an empty seat on a plane beside me, I always pray for the person who's going to sit there. This is the prayer I subliminally pray.
Lord, please don't let this guy show up. That's what I pray. And then he shows up, and I share the gospel with him.
My hardest, my biggest mountain to climb was how do you bring the subject up? Okay, I'm on a plane. This guy's a businessman.
He's wearing a three-piece suit. He's very intimidating, and I've got to talk to him about the things of God and sin and righteousness and judgment. How do I bring the subject up with this guy?
Oh, see those clouds? Guess who made the clouds? God.
No, it's just terrifying. But I learned something many years ago that just dissipated that fear of man and the fear of women, and that's this. I just say to any stranger, “Do you think there's an afterlife?”
That's a simple question. Do you think there's life after death? I haven't mentioned God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, sin, righteousness, judgment, any of those things that make him feel uncomfortable.
I just said, do you think there's an afterlife? And this is how I do it, and I've done it many times. I'm at the ministry now in our studio.
Many a time I've had workmen come. Let's say there's a plumber working on something. I go up to him and say, “Hey, how are you doing?”
He says, “Good.” I'm Ray. What's your name?
He says, “Eric.” Nice to meet you, Eric. Eric, what?
I've got a question for you, “Do you think there's an afterlife?” Eric stands up and says, “I don't know.”
I say, “Do you think about it much?” Yeah, all the time. His all the time just dissipated my fears.
He's not antichrist. He hasn't stabbed me to death. He's a normal human being.
He thinks about the issues of life and death all the time. And so, I've got confidence. And the thing that got me in there was that question, do you think there's an afterlife?
You can ask anyone. Even Uncle Arthur at the Christmas lunch, sitting there and usually he's working. Uncle Arthur, do you think there's an afterlife? Haven't mentioned God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell. Just let him talk.
He says, “Oh, I don't know about heaven.” So Rich, “You ever read the Bible?” Oh, let me get you my Bible.
Let me lend it to you. It just opens the door and lets them do the talking. So never forget that.
You can talk to any stranger about the things of God by just asking that question. Do you think there's an afterlife? And I do it every day.
Laura Dugger: (37:38 - 37:57)
Wow. And I love it, even before we began recording when we were just getting to know each other for a moment. And then you said, well, before we begin, shall we do this in the flesh, or should we pray?
And I love that. I think that's such an approachable first step to this.
Ray Comfort: (37:57 - 38:07)
Well, you just have to do something in the flesh to know how terrible it is. You need a pulpit, and you think, oh God, I need your help. So, I always pray.
Laura Dugger: (38:08 - 38:24)
Absolutely. That's very relatable. And so, if we're considering this invitation to evangelize publicly, what do you think this looks like for men and for women?
And do you see any difference between the two?
Ray Comfort: (38:25 - 39:21)
Yes, I do. When I look at my wife, I see different from the local workman that comes to work around our home. But physically, no, I don't.
Yeah. When Jesus had gone to all the world and preach the gospel to every creature, he didn't say, “Oh, that's just for men.” No.
Look at the woman at the well. She went off and shared the gospel with the whole village. And so, if a woman's got the courage to stand up and do what men won't do, God bless her.
I think that's wonderful. And so, I'm all for women and women stay silent at the church. Well, that's for the church.
That's church discipline. But when it comes to sharing the gospel, telling people how they can find everlasting life, women can do just as well with men and a woman can do good with five people or 10 people. Now she can gather a crowd of 200 at a university and share how to find everlasting life.
God bless her. And thank you for her, Aud.
Laura Dugger: (39:22 - 39:35)
Thank you for sharing that. And can you think of just an easy or approachable next step, something that we could do today that takes inspiration from this conversation and turns it into action?
Ray Comfort: (39:35 - 39:38)
Yes. Get the book.
Laura Dugger: (39:40 - 39:41)
Absolutely.
Ray Comfort: (39:41 - 39:48)
And I'll watch our YouTube channel too. I love it. It'll really help you build confidence.
Thank you for that.
Laura Dugger: (39:49 - 40:01)
My pleasure. So, if we do determine that we're going to apply what we've learned today, then there's another side to this as well. What kind of attack can we expect from our enemy?
Ray Comfort: (40:02 - 42:34)
Oh, full on. You're going to get negative thoughts. You can't do this.
You shouldn't do this. What are you going to do if you dry up? The dry up thing is a real big fear.
I'm going to get up there and I'll say, “My mind's gone blank.” Well, just have a Gospel of John in your pocket, a little New Testament, maybe a little Gideon in your pocket there. And if you dry up, just say, “Oh, excuse me, I want to read this to you.”
You've got John 3:16, corner turned down. Just say, “For God so loved the world and gave his only begotten son who believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.” Please think about that.
Close it and get down. Or you can keep speaking. And so, if you've got an out, that will dissipate your fears if you know you can get out if that happens.
I've used it many a time. I mean the fear of every preacher is drying up in a pulpit. I remember I was in a church of 3,000 once and I lost my place.
So, you know what I did? I just said, look at that over there. And everyone looked at the wall.
I said, I just lost my place. Or I'll say something like this. “Turn to Leviticus 15:3.”
And everyone goes, shh, shh, shh. I look for my place. I've got my thoughts back.
And they say that was a fake scripture. I don't know what it is. I wanted to do something while I was trying to find my place.
And there I've never had problems drying up in the pulpit because I know that's my way out. And it's the same with open air preaching. If you dry up, you're just going to quote John 3:16 or begin reading Genesis chapter 1 to the crowd.
“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” And just knowing you've got that out will help dissipate your fears. And when you're finished, you'll have such a joy.
I say to our team, whenever you go to preach the gospel, you're dragging your feet. When you come back, you'll be clicking your heels.
And that's exactly what happens. You'll have such satisfaction that you did what you know you should. You overcame that Goliath.
You ran at Goliath and overcame your fears. And so just do it. If you want to learn to swim, you don't study water.
You jump in. That's the best way to learn to swim. And, you know, if you're going to drown, it's a pity more people don't know this, but if you just relax, you'll float.
If you panic, you'll probably sink. And it's the same with this. Don't panic.
Just trust in the Lord. Say, “Lord, you'll fill my mouth. You'll help me out with this.”
And he'll float. He'll float you. He'll take you by the hand, and you'll be fine.
I've done it thousands of times, and God's never let me down.
Laura Dugger: (42:36 - 43:00)
Amen. I hope we all are willing to give it a try. I think that you really articulated it well when you narrow it down to that fear of man, fear of woman.
And I love also that just do it, and we can do it scared. But you're so full of these practical tips. There's one about hecklers that we haven't covered yet.
Can you share your perspective on hecklers?
Ray Comfort: (43:01 - 44:02)
Hecklers are wonderful. If you fear hecklers, you're fearing the thing that could make what you're doing a great success. A good heckler, if he's handled well, can take a crowd of 15 people to 150 people in about 30, 40 seconds.
And all you do is let him vent. There's one, I think we've got, it's called The Angry Atheist. I think it's one of our videos.
And this guy was furious, a Christian. So, I just let him vent, and the crowd thickened up, and then we started one by one dealing with his problems. And just always remember a soft answer turns away wrath.
If someone's angry, you just speak, what's your name? And they'll say, “Oh, John.” Nice to meet you, John.
That's a nice sweater. I remember once a lady came up, this young lady. She was really angry, and I did say the sweater thing to her when she was yelling at me.
I said, “That's a nice sweater.” She said, “Really?” I said, “Where'd you get it?”
And so, a soft answer turns away wrath. So, you just learn these little things that can really help.
Laura Dugger: (44:03 - 44:14)
I love that. And just as a model for us, if we want to share the good news of Jesus, you've done this time and time again. Will you share it with all of us now?
Ray Comfort: (44:16 - 46:05)
What are you trying to do to me? You mean you'd like the gospel? Absolutely.
One-minute gospel presentation. Okay, let's do a nutshell. Let me say, I'm meeting a stranger.
I'll talk directly to them. You know, God's placed a will to live within you. Something in you says, I don't want to die.
Did you know the Bible says, “Jesus Christ has abolished death and brought life and immortality to life through the gospel?” And the reason you're going to die is because you've sinned against God. And all you have to do for a few minutes with an honest heart is go through the commandments.
The seventh commandment says, “You shall not commit adultery, but Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust, you commit adultery in your heart, lying lips and abomination to the Lord. No thief will inherit God's kingdom.”
Ever stolen something? Ever used God's name in vain? And if you've been honest, you'll know you've sinned against God. And if all your sin comes out on Judgment Day as evidence of your guilt, you're going to end up justly in Hell, and that breaks my heart.
And God is not willing that any perish. The Bible says, “He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and he's provided a way for you to be forgiven by Christ dying on the cross.” We broke God's law.
Jesus paid the fine. It's as simple as that. That means you can leave the courtroom.
God can dismiss your case. He can take death off you because of what Jesus did through his death and resurrection. And all you have to do is so simple a child can understand it.
You must repent, turn from your sins. You'll never do that while you think you're a good person. And trust in Jesus like you trust a parachute.
The minute you do that, you've got God's promise, and he cannot lie. He'll grant you everlasting life as a free gift, not because you're good, but because He's good and kind and rich in mercy. And don't put it off until tomorrow because you may not have tomorrow.
Fifty-four million people die every year. Today, if you hear his voice, don't harden your heart.
Laura Dugger: (46:07 - 46:10)
It just never gets old hearing that.
Ray Comfort: (46:10 - 46:10)
No.
Laura Dugger: (46:10 - 46:28)
Thank you. And you also bring up even so clearly from scripture but sharing repent and believe. And is there anything else that you would want to make sure that we wouldn't leave out of a conversation if we were evangelizing to someone?
Ray Comfort: (46:29 - 48:02)
Well, another good question. Yeah, a lot of people are saying all you have to do is believe. Just believe.
They say if you repent, that's works. Well, by saying you have to believe, that's works. If you have to do anything, believe.
No, the Bible says, “By grace you're saved through faith, through faith, and not of yourselves.” It's God's grace that saves us. But if you read scripture, it comes through repentance and faith.
And the reason they want to drop repentance is because they don't see the true nature of sin. And what the commandments do, the Ten Commandments, they open up the law and show sin to be exceedingly sinful, and that necessitates repentance. Like with David, when he realized he'd committed adultery and lied and stolen his neighbor's wife, covered his neighbor's wife, murdered his neighbor, that's when he cried out, “Oh, have mercy upon me, oh God, according to your lovingkindness.”
If Nathan hadn't said, “Why have you despised the commandment of the Lord, and David hadn't said, I've sinned against heaven, he would have just said, oh, just believe. No, he had to get before God and agonize. Scripture says, “Cleanse your hands, you sinners.”
Purify your hearts, you double-minded. Let your laugh to be turned to mourning and your joy to heaviness.” That's contrition.
And the law that shows us the nature of sin produces contrition, sorrow for sin, which works repentance, godly sorrow, works repentance unto life. So, it's most necessary to preach, as Jesus did, repent and believe in that order.
Laura Dugger: (48:04 - 48:13)
That is so good. Ray, where can we go to continue learning from you and continue to be inspired by the faithful work that you're doing?
Ray Comfort: (48:14 - 48:46)
Very kind of you to say that. LivingWaters.com, sign up for our newsletter. We've always got interesting stuff.
We give away a lot of stuff. Watch the YouTube channel. We have different videos each day.
We put one up four days ago that's had 4.6 million views. And so, it's a wonderful way to reach the lost. So, follow us.
Just become part of a YouTube channel, subscribe, and that really helps us and helps further our reach. So LivingWaters.com and LivingWaters YouTube.
Laura Dugger: (48:47 - 49:05)
Wonderful. We'll make sure to add those links in the show notes for today's episode. And as you already know, our podcast is entitled The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge.
And so, as my final question for you today, Ray, what is your Savvy Sauce?
Ray Comfort: (49:06 - 49:12)
My wife. Is that okay to say that?
Laura Dugger: (49:12 - 49:17)
I love that. Do you want to say anything more specific about her?
Ray Comfort: (49:17 - 49:44)
Sue and I have been married for 108 years, 54. We love each other. She's my best friend.
She works at the ministry and also I love my dog. And one thing I might say just as we close is don't call this anything to do with evangelism. That'll kill.
Use the word apologetics or say Ray Comfort says this about his wife. Anything other than evangelism that scares Christians off.
Laura Dugger: (49:45 - 49:50)
Wow. Interesting. So that's been your experience.
That makes sense.
Ray Comfort: (49:51 - 50:25)
Yeah. That's a principle we use at the ministry. If we have a conference, don't mention evangelism.
No one will come. It's like someone saying to me, “Hey, want to go door knocking, tell people about Jesus?” I go; I just wouldn't want to do that.
And there's a reason for it. As a new Christian, I knocked on someone's door, fully aware that Jehovah's Witnesses had stolen our thunder, and I said to this lady, “Hello, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness.” She said, “Well, I am.”
And so, I've got this aversion to door knocking, and that's what most Christians are like when it comes to evangelism. So, call it something else.
Laura Dugger: (50:25 - 50:50)
Wow. So practical, again. And Ray, you've just stewarded your many gifts that God has given you.
You've stewarded them so well and so wisely. I can just imagine God greeting you someday and having just, well done, good and faithful servant. So, thank you for generously taking the time to share with us today.
I'm grateful for you, and I just want to say thank you for being my guest.
Ray Comfort: (50:51 - 50:52)
Well, thank you for having me.
Laura Dugger: (50:53 - 54:35)
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?
It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.
Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.
We need a savior. But God loved us so much, he made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.
That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says, “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” So, would you pray with me now?
Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life?
We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him. You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason.
We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you ready to get started? First, tell someone.
Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible.
I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the book of John. Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ.
I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.
And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “In the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Aug 18, 2025
Monday Aug 18, 2025
266. Choosing Fun and Adventure in Your Marriage and with Your Family: An Interview with Dan & Sam Mathews
Isaiah 55:12 MSG “So you’ll go out in joy, you’ll be led into a whole and complete life. The mountains and hills will lead the parade, bursting with song. All the trees of the forest will join the procession, exuberant with applause. No more thistles, but giant sequoias, no more thornbushes, but stately pines— Monuments to me, to God, living and lasting evidence of God.”
*Transcription Below*
Dan and Sam Mathews have been married since 2014 and currently reside in Missouri with their two kids, Canyon and Ember. Since the moment they got married, Dan and Samantha have been living a life of sacrifice and faith. From backpacking in Arkansas to RV road trips across the US, they have always taken the adventurous route. Sam is a lifestyle vlogger and content creator, and Dan hosts a hunting podcast in addition to his social platforms. Together they share their life of adventure online with millions of followers. Follow them on socials @wearedanandsam.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Sam Leman Eureka
Questions and Topics We Cover:
- What are a few adventures you're so grateful you said yes to in life?
- Matthew 25:26 MSG says, "That's a terrible way to live! It's criminal to live cautiously like that!" So drawing your wisdom from the Lord, how does your faith fuel your sense of adventure?
- How can we begin to enjoy an adventurous life in our marriage and with our family?
Other Episodes Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce Podcast:
82 Traveling with Your Family with Katie Mueller
242 Stories Series: He Gives and Takes Away with Joyce Hodel
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook, Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
*Transcription*
Music: (0:00 – 0:09)
Laura Dugger: (0:11 - 1:47)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today over 55 years later at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka.
Owned and operated by the Burchie family, Sam Leman's Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at lemangm.com.
Dan and Sam Mathews are my guests for today, and you may know them from all the social platforms at WeAreDanAndSam.
They live a life of high faith and delightful adventure, and their book, Always Choose Adventure: One Couple's Journey of Chasing the Things in Life That Matter Most, is actually going to release this month. I would highly recommend it. It was an amazing read.
I read through it so fast, and it was a great combination of enjoying the stories but learning so much along the way. It's kind of like our chat for today. We're going to cover various stories, but Dan and Sam are also going to give us simple and practical ideas and tips for adding a sense of fun into our marriage and into our family life.
Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Dan and Sam.
Dan Mathews: (1:47 - 1:48)
Thank you for having us. We're excited. We are really excited.
Laura Dugger: (1:49 - 1:59)
Well, I'm so excited to journey back and get to hear more of your story, but will you first just give us an overview of what current life looks like right now?
Sam Mathews: (2:00 - 2:29)
Yes. Currently, I'm 22 weeks pregnant with our third baby. We have two kiddos.
Canyon is almost nine. Ember is seven. We live in Southern Missouri.
We love adventuring and traveling, and Dan hunts. We share life on every platform, so just lifestyle, vlogging, and sharing our adventures. We recently settled down in a home, and so this is our first time doing DIYs for ourselves.
Yeah, it's a fun season right now.
Dan Mathews: (2:29 - 2:46)
And Sam loves to host, so I think we have 48 parties scheduled this summer and knocked out a couple already, but yeah, we're excited about life, excited about adventure, and sharing that with people and how they can actually get out and adventure more.
Laura Dugger: (2:47 - 3:01)
You do that so well, but if we're going back then to more of the origin stories, will you both share your journey of growing up and your stories that eventually led for the two of you to overlap with one another?
Sam Mathews: (3:01 - 3:37)
Yeah, definitely. It's always been me, my mom, and my sister. My mom was a single mom raising us, born in California, but then she moved us to Southern Missouri when I was young, and this was a great place to raise us.
In the Bible Belt, we were raised pretty much in church. She did an amazing job as a single mom, just caring for us and pointing us to Christ. We got plugged into a church very early on.
We volunteered there. My sister and I worked there. We attended there, and so we're really involved, and that's how I met Dan when he came to Bible College.
Dan Mathews: (3:37 - 4:58)
Yeah, I grew up in central Wisconsin. We went to church Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, was very, very involved with the kid’s ministry and youth group and just any opportunity I could be around that church community, I was. We had a group called Master's Commission that would come up and do outreach at our church.
They were from Florida, and I was like, man, I want to do that one day. These guys are awesome. They're doing human videos, and they're all musical.
My dad's brother and his family moved down to Southern Missouri, and I get a call one day right after high school. They were like, “Hey, there's a Master's Commission program down here. If you want to do it, we'll pay for it.” I was like, “Sure, let's do it.” Almost no questions asked, just kind of like, all right, tell me the date I have to be there. Then, I started packing stuff up and quit my job and moved down knowing absolutely nobody. I got plugged into the church. I became very, very involved, and then just built a community, and through that, I went there with Sam's sister, her older sister, and I got to know Sam, and then I ended up working out at the gym that she worked at.
Sam Mathews: (4:59 - 5:00)
Which was at our church.
Dan Mathews: (5:00 - 5:15)
Which was at the church, and so we were just around each other all the time, and that kind of developed over years and years and years. Then one day, I was like, wow, this chick is awesome, and now we're here doing podcasting.
Laura Dugger: (5:16 - 5:32)
Which is incredible. Okay, so just to pause, and you go into more of these stories, love your books, so easy to read, but can you take us back to what you both first thought of one another when you were meeting those days at the gym? Oh, gee.
Sam Mathews: (5:33 - 6:22)
For sure, Dan is the life of the party, like he is comedy, and just, he has all the jokes, and definitely a charmer with all the ladies, but so fun to be around, and not only his humor draws you in, but I didn't grow up with a father, and so I liked the, I don't know, like strong aspect that he had, just like the confidence, and then his relationship with the Lord was something that I desired to have for myself, you know, a leader in a couple like together, someone to point me towards Christ, but the lightheartedness and jokes and humor keep the hard days fun, but that for me was, you know, I always can count on you for a good joke.
Dan Mathews: (6:23 - 6:41)
Yeah, I, when I first met Sam, it was kind of in a group setting, and it was with her older sister with my younger brother, and it was like, oh, this is, you know, Justine's sister. Little sister. Didn't really think a whole lot of it, but after a couple years, I think you were probably a sophomore at that time when I first met you.
Sam Mathews: (6:41 - 6:42)
Yeah.
Dan Mathews: (6:42 - 7:36)
And, and then after a couple years, it was like she was volunteering in the youth group, and she was on the recreation staff at our camps, and so it's like we were spending more time together, and I'm like, oh, Justine's sister's kind of cute, and yeah, we started, we started just kind of a friendship. We were just around each other all the time. I mean, like before we were dating, we're really interested in each other.
It's like I was walking back from the lake, and she'd hop on my back, and I'd just give her a piggyback ride up to the cabins, and then looking back, I'm like, wow, our lives just were really intermingled and overlapped for years and years, but early on, she was younger. She had braces. She was a hip-hop dance instructor, so I mean, she would have like one sweat pant leg rolled up, high-top Nikes on all the time, like thought she was the coolest thing ever.
Laura Dugger: (7:36 - 7:52)
I was. I didn't think. Oh, that's amazing.
I love that, and my husband and I were also friends first, and I feel like that does set you up well in marriage. Like you've got your built-in buddy.
Sam Mathews: (7:53 - 8:30)
Exactly. I was going through pictures yesterday, because I was going to post a trend online, and it was like, oh, how cute. How many months have you been married?
And it's like months? You put a picture for every year, and it's like we've known each other since like 2008, maybe 2009. Then, like started our like dating in 2010. I look at pictures of us from 2010 as a couple. I'm like, oh, my gosh, we've grown so much just like, you know, like physically, but even just relationally and spiritually, and like it's crazy looking back, and so thankful for so many years of friendship with him, but you know, relationship-wise, it's been great.
Dan Mathews: (8:30 - 8:52)
Well, and I feel like doing life together is a great model before ever like the romantic side comes in. You get to know the person in group settings. You get to know who they are without the interest, because people can put on a different face once you're trying to impress somebody, you know, but we were just being our genuine selves around each other for a long time.
Sam Mathews: (8:52 - 8:59)
Probably saw some stupid moments, some hard moments, but that's, yeah, that's what you want to see before you get into a relationship with someone.
Laura Dugger: (9:00 - 9:12)
Absolutely. Yeah. And as we're starting back that far, then when you reflect back, what are some of the adventures that you're most grateful you've said yes to in life?
Sam Mathews: (9:13 - 10:38)
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I feel like dating, we weren't even dating at this point, the canoe trip when you did a master's commission, and that was so fun.
It was like all of his friends, my sister, all the master's commission group went kayaking, and I decided to tag along as a sibling, and his brother did, and maybe a couple others. And that was fun, but it also gave me an opening into how Dan adventures, because his way of adventuring is way different than mine. I grew up, like I said, with a mom.
We would camp at a cabin, and you'd pack the car full of everything you need. Dan would literally just put everything in a backpack and hike in two miles to go camping. And so being in that group, going kayaking, it was so fun, and it sparked this new love for adventure and new desire to learn a new way of adventuring.
That was so fun. I mean, that was before we were married, but this is kind of jumping far ahead, but when we were married, we moved to Colorado for a couple of years, and although it was a hard season for us, we learned so much. We gained so much from it.
A lot was birthed in us in that season. I mean, physically, I welcomed my daughter. We welcomed our second child in Colorado, but spiritually, I think God planted a lot of seeds that it may not have been a tangible adventure of being out in the woods, but spiritually, we were in the woods, and we grew so much, and I'm glad we said yes to it because it opened the door and led to so many other things.
Dan Mathews: (10:38 - 12:31)
Yeah, I feel like a lot of our adventures, some are traditional. I mean, a big adventure for me was leaving home. I mean, I moved straight out of my parents' house to a different state, and that was totally crazy for me.
But then watching Sam, I mean, she moved out to California for a summer, went to a ministry out there. Then I saw her go to Colorado and Nanny for a couple, all summer long, and so I was like watching this, and we were talking, and I realized, like, we're both all in on an adventurous life, and even when we don't have the answers, it's like, is the Lord telling you not to do it? No?
Okay, well, then we'll see what happens, and I thought that was really cool to watch her just like, oh, I'm going to California for a summer, and at first, I was like, please don't. I don't want you to come all the way to California, but then I was like, that's going to be so incredible. Like, you're just leaving everything behind and starting over for a whole summer in a different state, and so that was like the early dating years where we were kind of doing our own adventures, but we were watching and encouraging each other in doing them, and then we started actually going out and camping and floating rivers and hiking up waterfalls, and if you've never camped in the backcountry with someone, I suggest doing it. It's a great metric for if there's someone you want to marry.
Like, if you can figure out canoeing and camping, you're probably going to be okay in marriage. That's good. And so, yeah, we started doing that stuff, and then from there, it was just like one after the next, going to Alaska, camping in grizzly country by ourselves, and it's our first time there.
Like, we've done some pretty wild things, some pretty traditional things, but at the end of the day, all of the adventures are what brought us together.
Laura Dugger: (12:32 - 12:45)
Well, and just thinking of the adventure that drew you together, and then also your current platforms on socials and vlogging and preserving all of these pictures, like you said, you've captured all the pictures throughout the time.
Sam Mathews: (12:45 - 12:45)
Yes.
Laura Dugger: (12:47 - 12:58)
When you look back, do you feel like God had given you little seeds of what was yet to come or what kind of career you would be in someday, or was this totally a shock to both of you?
Sam Mathews: (12:59 - 13:57)
You know what? Looking back at pictures or even videos that I took, I could see how it was something that the Lord was birthing in us, and I would say probably me so more than Dan. I think Dan's like, whatever you want to do, I'm along for the ride type of thing.
It probably wasn't his first choice as a career, but now that we're in it, we love it and we're thankful for the blessing it is to our family and the time that we get to spend with the kiddos. But I look back and I started videoing and taking pictures like years before even starting on social media, and then even the first few months in the year of sharing, it was like I didn't know what I was doing, but I still wanted to just share life and encourage people and love on people and inspire people. And yeah, it's crazy to look back on, but I also see the work the Lord was doing to get it all started before we even thought about it and knew that it would be something that we'd be doing.
Dan Mathews: (13:57 - 16:00)
Yeah, and I feel like with Sam, she gets promptings from the Lord that she doesn't know what it is. She doesn't know what it means. And early on, I think the very first one, she's like, babe, I just have this feeling like a big change is coming.
And I'm like, anymore? Like, do you have any more information for me? That's not a whole lot to go off of.
And I mean, in the conversation, I was like, okay, we'll see. Then I just forgot about it. And I mean, it was like the next day.
There was an issue at work, just a very immoral thing that they were asking us to do as employees. And I was like, no, I can't be part of this. And I called her right after, and I was like, babe, I think this might be it.
Like I'm going to resign tomorrow. And we talked and prayed, and I only had like a five-minute car ride home. We talked, prayed, got off the phone, and immediately I get a call from my buddy.
And he's like, “Hey, dude, don't know what you're doing for work right now, but I've got a job for you if you want to come work at this place I'm at.” And I was like, “Oh, my gosh.” So then two years later, the same thing happened.
She's like, I feel like a change is coming. Boom, big change. Two years later, I feel like a change is coming.
All of a sudden, we're in a car moving out to Colorado. And it was just like that cycle. And so now when she's like, hey, there's a change coming, I'm like, oh, my gosh.
I got to pack my bags. Something big's happening. I know something major is happening.
And so, I don't know that early on either of us expected us to be where we are today. But we knew that we wanted to prioritize time together. We wanted to prioritize time with our kids and above all of it, time with the Lord.
And if we could get those three in the right order, it didn't really matter where we were. It didn't matter what state we were in. If we were living in a bumper pole camper, an RV, a tiny home, or a regular sized house, we just knew that we had to prioritize those things, and everything was going to work out.
Laura Dugger: (16:01 - 18:03)
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There's a verse that you quoted in your book, and I had never read it before, in the message translation.
So, it's Matthew 25:26 that says, “That's a terrible way to live.” It's criminal to live cautiously like that. So, drawing your wisdom then from the Lord, how does your faith fuel your sense of adventure?
Sam Mathews: (18:04 - 19:50)
Yeah, a lot of faith and trust. Several points in our life have been like a crossroads where we feel like we want to almost desire more out of everything to go towards the direction where God is leading us, where we don't know the outcome. We don't know what's ahead.
We don't know what's coming and it's forcing us to trust the Lord, to have faith, even though we're fearful of it. Or we look at another option where it's like, you know what, this is very comfortable. We know the outcome.
We know what's going to be required of us. We know how we're going to get there, how we're going to pay for it. And it was something we didn't desire.
We liked being in a position where we needed the Lord. We're reliant upon Him. And so, you know, we talk often in the book about being comfortable.
And I feel like when you're in a comfortable setting in life, it's safe. There's no risk involved. There's little to no trust in the Lord.
I say that, you know, there's more to the story of that. But that you don't want to be at a place where you don't need God, where you don't need to rely on Him. And so, for us, we just encourage people that if you do find yourself in a comfortable place, to maybe step out of your comfort zone a little bit.
To what's an area where you need to trust the Lord more? Is it finding that new job that you've been waiting for, that you've been hoping for? Is it moving to the state that's closer by your family or closer by your friends that you really desire but you're scared too?
To not just be comfortable and stay for the sake of not being fearful or not, like knowing what's next, but instead step out, trust the Lord, you know, as long as you have peace and as long as you feel that yes from Him. And just lay fear aside and move forward with the Lord.
Dan Mathews: (19:50 - 21:54)
Yeah, with every big decision that we make, we're led by peace. And we've said it for years. If either one of us don't have peace about it, we're not doing it.
But when there are multiple doors open, we say we're going to choose the most adventurous one. If we don't feel a specific direction from the Lord, let's just pick the most adventurous one. And it's kind of become common practice for us to not have really many of the details planned out on a major decision on a trip.
And people are like, do you have any idea of what you're going to do when you move there? Or how long you're going to be traveling the country in an RV? And we're like, nope, we'll figure it out.
I joke with my buddies all the time because they're like, “I mean, how do you know everything's going to be okay? How do you know this?” I go, well, between me and God, we've got everything figured out.
And they're like, “Oh, okay, I get it.” I'm like, “well, the Lord has everything figured out, but I can throw myself in that team, you know?” And I feel like it's been an encouragement to some of our friends as they watch it.
And they're like, whoa, you guys did it. I'll talk about it for years. And even when we moved out to Colorado, in our minds, we were going to move out there.
All of our friend group was like, one person needs to move. And then everybody else is going to slowly follow out. Well, we end up moving out there.
And I'm like shooting my buddies messages like, “All right, when are you coming out? And one by one, it was like, “No, I don't think we're coming.”
No, it's not going to be for at least five years. It's going to be, you know, maybe when the kids graduate, all of these different responses. And I'm like, man, that was one of the biggest things that we missed when we were out there.
But we knew that moving to Colorado, taking a pay cut, paying more in rent, like all of those things were a stepping stone to get us to where we were today, to trusting the Lord and starting our first business together, trusting the Lord with our finances, with our time. And really putting us in a position where we were fully dependent on him for our survival.
Sam Mathews: (21:54 - 22:40)
And so even if something doesn't work out, we mentioned a couple of stories in the book where we may have moved forward without peace, and it did not end well. But the Lord always brings it around and teaches us something from it or a situation where we felt the peace to move to Colorado, but we were only there for two years. It was hard on us financially.
We got into debt. We had no friends, no family out there. It was a hard season.
We still gained from it. So instead of looking at something as a complete loss, we still look to find the good. You know, what did the Lord birth in us?
You know, like Dean said, spiritually, we grew together. Financially, we started a business. Like so much good came from it that even though it maybe on paper or to others, it didn't make sense.
It was still good. And something that the Lord, yeah, started for us.
Laura Dugger: (22:41 - 23:05)
And you've learned those lessons and now you get to share them with others. Even super practical with this one. Our family has never done the RV thing before, but even just dipping our toes in and trying a vacation that way.
What tips do you have for families, maybe who aren't traveling around, living out of their RV, but vacationing with one, what are some of your best tips?
Sam Mathews: (23:05 - 24:27)
I just saw a video of someone sharing the other day where they took their family of, let's see, four, six total on an RV for the first time. And I was like, oh no, because the first warning I give to everyone is you have to drain your poop through the hose. If you're out on that, RV life is not for you.
RV vacation is not for you. Do you have to get down and dirty and take care of a few things? There's a lot more maintenance that comes with RV vacationing or RV life.
And I usually have the dirty work for Dan to do and I'm inside cooking, cleaning. But an RV has all your basic needs. You can still go to the bathroom, you can still shower, there's a toilet, there's a bed.
It's just on a lot smaller scale. And if you're not good with being in close proximity with all your children or your spouse, then you may just need a little bit of a bigger space to stay in. But it's fun because you get to navigate it together and you get to learn just a new way of life or new way of traveling.
And yeah, the maintenance of the restroom, you have to have water hookups, or you need solar for electric or you have to be hooked up to electric. The great part is you can go anywhere, and you can get right up close to some great adventures. Our favorite spot to park an RV is the rim of the Badlands.
It's so pretty. Is it the North Rim?
Dan Mathews: (24:28 - 24:28)
Yeah.
Sam Mathews: (24:28 - 24:54)
It's gorgeous. You wake up to the sun rising over it and it's the most peaceful thing to be right there next to it. And you can't do that with a cabin in the woods.
But the benefit to a cabin in the woods is that's its own adventure. And so just do a little bit of research on the maintenance required for setting up, tearing down the RV in order to get on the road and to like park it and set up.
Dan Mathews: (24:55 - 26:44)
I like how you weave some of the worst parts about our RV life in there. But I will say being on the road, traveling and like just kind of deciding on the way is one of the greatest things ever. I did not, like we definitely had a plan.
It was like, “Hey, we're gonna stop one time.” Growing up, we've got five kids. So, it was like, we're stopping one time to go to the bathroom.
If you have to go, you're just gonna have to hold it type of thing. We were fairly structured in the traveling to a place. But being in an RV, it really opens up so much to where you can on the way be like, oh, I just saw a billboard.
I wonder what that is. Look it up. How far away is it?
Hey, what if we take a 45-minute detour and go check this out? Like we found places in the middle of Kansas that 1% of the population knows about. We camped.
There's spots that you can camp on the rim of the Grand Canyon. Like no guardrail, back your vehicle right up, walk out the door, sit there, have coffee or whatever in the morning. And that was like our favorite part about it.
There were nights that we would drive until like one in the morning. And we might be sleeping in a truck stop. But we were on the way to Glacier National Park or to the Oregon coast or wherever.
And so, I feel like ditching the schedule and just kind of figuring it out as you go is one of the most freeing things on a vacation. And the other nice part about it is if you find a place that you absolutely love and you're like, we want to spend four days here, do it. You don't have a new reservation somewhere else that you have to get to.
You can just go wherever the wind blows, have fun with the family. And yeah, I think everybody needs to do it at least one time.
Laura Dugger: (26:44 - 27:02)
Oh yeah, for sure. What a great challenge to step outside our comfort zone like you said. Well, one other amazing adventure that you've embarked on together is becoming a surrogate twice, I believe.
Will you tell us a little bit more about that process and that experience?
Sam Mathews: (27:03 - 31:10)
Yeah, definitely. So, in 2018, we had our daughter and she was a little bit more work than our first. So, our first was super easy.
Ate well, slept well, like barely cried. And our daughter, maybe it was just her being a girl. A little bit more needy and required some extra grace and some more prayer for patience on my part.
But at that point, I was like, yeah, I think I'm done. Having children of our own and parenting our own children because even raising two kids is going to be a task. But I didn't feel like I was done carrying children.
And I'm like, I still want to have babies, but I don't want to have more to parent. How do I do that? But I felt like the Lord just laid surrogacy in my heart.
And I started thinking about it, praying about it, researching it. And I brought it up to Dan like, hey, what would you think about me doing this? And I had to educate him a little bit on like what being a surrogate was.
As a gestational surrogate, I wasn't carrying an embryo with an egg that was mine. So, I'm not biologically related to the baby. And after some prayer, we both felt at peace about it.
And so, we walked through that door and started the process of meeting a couple or going through an agency to start a journey. And yeah, we've done two now. So, in 2022, I delivered a baby boy for a couple.
And then in 2024, so just last year, I've just actually in a few days, I'm going to hit my year mark of my second belly bud being one and a little girl for a couple. And it was like the most, one of the greatest adventures I've been on. And I've gained so much from it.
And it's so rewarding to see someone who desires to be a parent, to be a mom, but physically can't. To see them walk that road and just step into the role that like watching her become a mom is like, you can tell that's what she was meant to be. That's what the Lord had for her.
And it's so fun seeing the joy of their family and watching her grow up and like being a part of her life. That, yeah, like we just encourage other people, if you're able to do something like that, or no matter what it is, it's not just surrogacy, but if God's calling you to something that may require a lot more from you or something that is not normal, it's not traditional, you don't see it a lot, like just step out and do it. And yeah, it's been fun.
It definitely grouped Dan and I closer together. Spiritually, he was there for me in times of emotional hardship. Pregnancy in itself is hard, but to do it multiple times, you know, this is my fifth pregnancy now.
There's a lot of roles that he takes on to care for the kids more, to care for me more. And we've grown closer and just his love for me, seeing it that even though it's not our baby, like he's still caring for me and taking care of me as if it was. And the Lord, I've had to rely on the Lord so many times because pregnancy and birthing in itself is a miracle.
To go through moments of transfer, like the embryo doesn't always take the first time on a transfer or your levels are off or maybe one of the ultrasounds is, you know, something doesn't look good on it. We're constantly relying on the Lord and it gives us an opportunity to share with intended parents, you know, someone who didn't have hope, didn't have anything to look forward to for parenting their own children, to just like be an encouragement to them spiritually and then share these journeys with others publicly has been a great way just to share our faith and to share how going through a surrogacy journey caused us to rely on the Lord and, you know, point everything back to Christ and, you know, God being just very pro-life and we're excited to bring this life into the world.
And so, yeah, definitely a big adventure to embark on to bring two babies into the world that aren't ours, but one of like the greatest things I've ever done. It's awesome.
Laura Dugger: (31:11 - 31:25)
It's a beautiful sacrifice and I'm sure others are also wondering at that moment when you meet the baby that you've been carrying, how did you handle those emotions of sharing the baby?
Sam Mathews: (31:25 - 33:42)
Yes. Yeah, definitely. So, when you go into surrogacy, you know, from the beginning that it's not your child, especially as a gestational carrier, not related to it.
Throughout the pregnancy, all these milestones that you hit, you're excited for it, but you're excited for it for the parents. So, finding out, you know, there's a heartbeat and seeing the baby for the first time on ultrasound, you're excited for them. Finding out the gender, you're excited for them.
You know, delivering the baby, you're excited for them that you do a lot of mental prep, but there's also like a lot of research that shows to like plan something after delivery for your family to do, something for you to do with your kids so that when you do leave the hospital, you don't think about what you don't have anymore. You think about what you do have at your house with your family. And so, it may seem hard.
I think a lot of times people compare it to adoption where the birth mom is literally giving up her child to somebody else and the hardship that that would cause on her as a surrogate. And I can only speak for myself because I'm sure there are times where it is hard for a surrogate. But for me, it wasn't because I did a lot of mental preparing, emotionally preparing that I knowing that this child wasn't mine going into it.
I knew that at the end of it, I would deliver the baby and the baby would be taken from me and I'm not raising this child. And a lot of times you don't even touch a baby until like maybe you're discharged to see the baby before you leave. So, it's not like I'm delivering the baby.
The baby's being given to me and I'm holding and I'm bonding with it. And then it's being taken away. It's no, this is from the moment it comes out of the womb.
It is their baby and it's in their care. And again, seeing their face, their joy, the moment where like they're seeing their child for the first time is so rewarding. And that's something that I would never want to take from them.
It was never my role to be this baby's mother. It was to just carry their baby and to bring their baby into the world. And so, it's not as hard as you think, thankfully.
I mean, I wouldn't have done it a second time for sure if it was. And we're praying about a third one. But it's so rewarding.
And yeah, you know from the beginning that it's not yours. So, it's easy to, in a sense, pass the baby off.
Laura Dugger: (33:43 - 34:56)
Well, that's a story that really encapsulates stewardship. I think that's a great example.
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For both of you, your lives are just fascinating mostly because you're living this life of faith and sacrifice. So, it's compelling to get to hear how you're actually doing that. But then I love how you call out that you don't recommend people go to the other extreme and become reckless and chase adventure. You discern between choosing adventure and chasing adventure.
So, I'm wondering if you can give us any of your definitions or parameters around what choosing adventure does and does not look like for you.
Dan Mathews: (34:57 - 38:00)
Yeah, I think that choosing adventure for us is looking at opportunities where we can spend as a family, where we can get outside of our comfort zones and just really put it in the Lord's hands. Have fun along the way, you know, whether it's ziplining or jumping off a cliff, like a lot of people think adventure has to be this grand thing and super dangerous. And for us, it isn't really.
Like there's been a couple of times where we've been like, this got crazy quickly. Maybe we could have planned it out a little bit better. But at the end of the day, it all worked out.
And so, when we talk about people choosing instead of chasing or not being reckless, it's all about like, do something new, do something fun, do something that puts you outside of your comfort zone, but isn't going to put you in a bad position. I'm not the guy that's like, you know what? Never swam across Lake Michigan.
I'm going to give it a go, see how it happens, and see what happens. If that's the case, it's like maybe start out with a triathlon and see what you're going to do and work your way up. And so, I don't ever want anyone to take the book or take the things that we say or the adventures that we've had in life and think I'm going to do something absolutely crazy that doesn't make sense.
That's not logical. That's not safe. Like, that's not what this is about.
It's about just getting outside of your comfort zone. And the more you're outside of it, the more comfortable you become with being uncomfortable. And I tell people, like on some of my backcountry hunts, I want to be comfortable in suffering.
Like when I'm really, really struggling physically to climb up a mountain with a 70-pound pack on my back, I want to be like, I know I'm making it out of this. It's not fun in the moment. Like it hurts.
My legs are burning. My back hurts. I feel like I need a break, but I'm going to keep pushing through.
And when I look back on that, I'm going to go, that was brutal and awesome. And I loved every second of it. And I feel like that's how, how we view our trips, our road trips.
I mean, driving, what was it? Thirty something thousand miles in a couple months and visiting dozens and dozens of states. It was like, there were times where it was like, I don't want to be on the road anymore.
The wind is literally about to tip the RV over. I'm almost taking out construction cones or running into things because I had never driven an RV before. And the very first place we go is Wisconsin.
And we drive right past Chicago and there's like construction for a hundred miles. And so it's like all of those things, they were fun. Yeah, they were scary in the moment we got through, we were never in any real danger.
And so, yeah, I feel like it's a stair step when it comes to adventure. I didn't start out just wandering around Alaska by myself. It started with going down to Arkansas, being five miles away from the vehicle and then kind of built from there.
Sam Mathews: (38:00 - 39:50)
Yeah, to not be reckless, like to, you know, we talked about this earlier to move forward when you have peace. And just because you have peace with it, someone else may not understand it. But with peace, like there's wisdom too.
You don't want to move forward with a lack of peace and not using wisdom in a decision because yeah, that will get you in trouble and that will cause hardship and pain later down the road. But if you have peace about something and there is that open door and you feel the release from the Lord to go on this adventure, then do it. And even though if it doesn't work out, you know, God will still work everything out.
But yeah, like Dan said, when you, the more you do things that are outside your comfort zone or that, you know, even others may not agree with, but you feel at peace with and you're moving forward, the easier it becomes to do those. And the more you would trust the Lord. And like you said, again, it doesn't have to be some grand adventure.
We encourage people that if they're new to choosing adventure and they're new to stepping outside their comfort zone, try like a new restaurant one day, go to like a new, I was thinking the other day, we live in Missouri and we always travel outside of Missouri for adventure. I'm like, we need to do a six-month adventure just within Missouri. Like we drove two hours South and through Missouri to go to Georgia last week.
And we were driving down this hill on one of the roads. I'm like, this looks like, it looked like Georgia already, or it looked like Colorado, the hillside and the trees and the fog, I'm like, this is beautiful. And I look down, I'm like, oh, we're still in Missouri.
So, there's so much to adventure and to explore in your own backyard or down your street that it doesn't have to be something crazy wild. We're not saying go, you know, jump out of a plane and skydive or something, but just start small, start where you have peace and where you feel the Lord's leading.
Laura Dugger: (39:52 - 40:26)
That's great. I love having a handful of practical things. I think of my brother, Drew and his wife, Amanda, when their kids were really little, they just drew a two hour radius to see what places would be fun to go invest and explore.
Or for us, I would say one of our most recent adventures, we didn't know what it would look like on the other side, but it's become one of our favorite things in life and probably our best decision in parenting for us as we started homeschooling our kids last year. And it has been a wild adventure.
Sam Mathews: (40:26 - 40:27)
That's an adventure.
Laura Dugger: (40:28 - 40:36)
So, any other tips to get people started? Those are even trying the new restaurant. Yeah.
Anything else like that that you would say?
Dan Mathews: (40:37 - 42:13)
The nice thing is that we all have this supercomputer in our hand or in our pocket all the time. And there are so many lists of like the top 10 places to see, places to eat. There's books that are just like places to canoe before you dive, places to hike before you dive, and they have all of this stuff listed out.
And so, it's not that you have to be a pioneer and find a new place that nobody's ever been before. Look at the research that people have done before you and look at lists, get on Pinterest or any social media platform and try to just figure out what are practical things that you can do. And then you can also say, how difficult is this going to be for me?
Do I really need to jump that far into it right now? Or should I just go to a local park that might have a cool cave that I can explore? Or maybe there's a creek near the house and like, what if we just go down there and see if we can find fish or crawdads or try to skip rocks?
My kids, that is one of their favorite things. I'm like, I love doing it as a kid. I didn't realize how exciting just the act of watching a rock skip on the water would be for kids.
And so there's, yeah, there's a million different resources online for things that you can practically do close to home. And it might, for some people, just be trying that DIY project instead of calling a carpenter to put yourself up, you know, or a handyman. Like, give it a try.
The worst that's going to happen, you have a hole in your wall. Now you watch a video on how to patch it.
Laura Dugger: (42:14 - 42:37)
That's so good. And I'm seeing a theme. A lot of these are getting outdoors and nature.
That's always an adventure. But then I'm even thinking simple things in conversation, trying out a new question, even with a loved one. Or you said at the beginning that you love hospitality.
So inviting somebody new into your home. I think any of that novelty is just really good for us. Yeah, definitely.
Dan Mathews: (42:38 - 44:32)
Yeah, I think even making it a point in conversation when somebody asks you how your day is, instead of just saying good and continuing on, actually stop and talk to them. Because a lot of people, their biggest fear might not be going on a road trip, might not be financial ruin. It might just be opening up and being vulnerable with another person.
And so it could be the person at the office that you've never actually had a conversation with. You know each other. You might wave when you walk by their desk.
But actually talk to them. Get to know them. Tell them about yourself.
And so the book has a lot of those types of things lined out where it's like it might not be physical. It might not be out in nature. It might be within your home.
It might be, I mean, some people need to do this with their kids. Like that might be the scariest thing is talking to your teenager. Like actually having a conversation.
And we're going to sit down and we're going to have a meal together and actually talk as a family. And so, yeah, it looks different for everybody. And that's one thing, because our passion is being outside.
Like Sam wants a houseboat. She wants to buy a houseboat and renovate it and live in it for a certain amount of time. And we've had other people who a bunch of homeschool families bought sailboats and sailed all around the world as they were homeschooling their kids.
And I heard that and I was like, yeah, yeah, we're going to have to do that at some point. But I know for a lot of people, just going outside is a big deal. And so it looks different for everybody.
We do give a lot of nature examples, but there's different ways for every type of person, every level of. What would you even call it? Social.
There's a lot of different levels to the social scale. And so no matter where you are, there's something for you to be a little bit more adventurous.
Laura Dugger: (44:34 - 44:42)
OK, so like I said, you've made a compelling argument for getting outside of our comfort zone. Why do you think some of us resist this attractive lifestyle?
Sam Mathews: (44:43 - 46:46)
Yeah, I think there's fear in it. There's sadly nowadays, you know, what will other people think of me? What will what if we fail?
What if we lose money? What if we what if I look a certain way that I don't want to appear to others? And that's where you just have to think back to Christ.
Like what is it? What really matters at the end of the day? It's how God views you.
And if you fail, oh, well, what if the Lord like just opens up so many doors and creates an avenue for you to get out? Or what if so much good comes from it that we can't be afraid of failure? Again, move forward cautiously with wisdom and with the Lord's peace and direction.
But in our book, we share one of our biggest adventures was going out to Colorado and renovating a van for five days. And we broke down on the side of the road, something no one wants to do in the desert, in the middle of twice. We did twice.
We broke down in the middle of Kansas and then in Colorado again. And it was we'll be honest, it was not fun. It was one of like the scariest times.
But looking back, like we're so thankful we did because so much good came from it. Like we met some amazing people who helped us along the way. And it's now one of our favorite stories to tell of encouragement that just because you say yes to adventure and just because something bad happens, it's not all a waste.
And I think, yeah, that fear just keeps people from being able to move forward and being like, you know what? Like I'm comfortable right here in my house, my kids in public school, not going anywhere because I know where my money's coming. I know like what's happening tomorrow.
I know how people are going to respond. And I'm just going to like stay here. Not that that's a bad thing, because the Lord needs people in every season in every situation.
But if he's prompting you to step out and to try something new, like don't be afraid of what's required from you or what could happen. You never know like where it could lead.
Dan Mathews: (46:47 - 48:10)
Yeah, I think a lot of it is those few things, fear, pride, or just you believing that God isn't big enough or doesn't care about your situation. And unfortunately, a lot of people are there where I really want to try this, but like what if things go wrong? And for us, it's like when things go wrong, that's where the Lord provides.
That's where the Lord directs. That's where he leads. That's where his word can be the lamp to your feet and a light to your path.
When you're trying to do it all on your own and you're staying in this safety net of comfort, nothing amazing happens in that place. And so, we've seen it time and time again, the Lord's provision, the Lord's provision in our lives and not only the provision financially, but actually like setting us free from constraints like social constraints of like you have to work nine to five. We heard that over and over and over.
And I'm like, well, the nice thing is Sam and I are both hard workers and super driven, and I'm sure we could get jobs again. Yeah, so like worst case scenario, we run completely out of money and we go back to go back to work. And I'm like, what does failure actually look like?
And I try to get people to break it down for me. People who are like, I'm glad that worked for you, but that couldn't work for us. And I go, why?
Sam Mathews: (48:10 - 48:10)
Yeah.
Dan Mathews: (48:11 - 48:20)
Like, why couldn't it work for you? And they're like, well, I like what happens if it doesn't work out? And I'm like, let's expand on that as far out as we can think.
Sam Mathews: (48:20 - 48:21)
Even the worst.
Dan Mathews: (48:21 - 48:24)
Like, does that work? Like, are you going to die? No.
Sam Mathews: (48:24 - 48:24)
Yeah.
Dan Mathews: (48:24 - 49:02)
Like, no, you'll probably just come back home if it doesn't work out, you know? And so, trying to trying to show people that because the fear of the unknown is pretty significant to people. Something completely new to them that they've never tried it's really challenging to get people to take that first step.
But once they do, the second step is easier. The third step is easier. And pretty soon you're jumping and sprinting and you're like, whoa, this whole life is out here that I didn't even know existed.
So yeah, I definitely think it's those three, though.
Laura Dugger: (49:03 - 50:59)
That's good. And it makes me think that typically the way that we grow our faith is action. We put our faith into action and God gives us with more faith when we're faithful with the little faith that we have.
And it also makes me think back, I believe it was episode 82, 82. Traveling With Your Family With Teacher, Wife, and Mother to 4,, with the guest, Katie Mueller. I'm going to link to it. I think you guys would love it where she parallels what God called people to do throughout the Bible with travel, what that looks like today, practical, fun things.
But Sam, something that you said reminded me of this when you're like, “Well, if nothing else, it's going to be a great story.” And she referred to that, like when things went wrong growing up on their travels, they laughed so hard about those memories. And in their family, they tragically lost their dad very unexpectedly.
Actually, her mom, I'll link to Joyce Hodel's episode as well. She shares that story. But their family has all of these stories and all of these memories from choosing adventure.
So that makes me start to think of marriage and family. And as we put that together with adventure, you guys always make adventure feel approachable, even in parenting. And I'm thinking on page 15, you wrote that as a kid, anytime you get to drive cross country, stay at a hotel or eat at a restaurant, it's an adventure for no reason other than it's a break from the norm, right?
And you know what? That's the whole point. Choosing adventure is about stepping out of your comfort zone and trying something new.
There's no right or wrong way to do it. So, with that in mind, Dan and Sam, how can we begin to enjoy this adventurous life in marriage and in family?
Sam Mathews: (51:00 - 51:49)
Yeah. Bringing your kids along is such a fun, it requires a little bit more packing, but such a fun aspect to adventure. And going on date nights with your spouse, trying something new, experiencing it together, finding something you enjoy together, but realizing that it can also, there's another level of fun to have your kids along with.
And sometimes we'll drive 30 minutes away and stay at a hotel for a night just because it's a new place to go and the kids love it. And it doesn't have to be expensive. They go putt-putt and that for them is the greatest thing.
If you end it with ice cream, it's even better than the cherry on top, that it's just something fun for them. But yeah, realizing that it can be a family thing, but it could just be you as a couple too. But yeah.
Dan Mathews: (51:50 - 54:56)
Well, and for kids, there's so much adventure to be had right at home or right in your backyard. I bought, I went to Walmart one day and I bought two extra large king-size sheets just so that we could do forts. I was like, I'm gonna put these in the closet and now I've got like the alligator clips and so I can clip them to different things.
And when it's a rainy day and the kids are bored and we're stuck inside, it's just a break from the norm. And then they'll be like, mom, dad, come see what we did. And they might build like a little shop where they sell us stuff inside of their fort.
Or they might make beds for us and for the stuffed animals and for our dog and all of these different things. And so, breaking out of the norm is just what adventure is. Like if they're not used to that, if they're not used to that time together, like some days it's, we're gonna go jump on the trampoline and they're like, wait, both of you at once?
Normally one of us is getting stuff done and the other one's hanging out with them. And when all of a sudden it's like both of us unexpectedly are walking to the trampoline, they're like, oh, family trampoline jump. If you need really good ideas for adventure and you're a parent, just watch Bluey.
If you haven't seen Bluey, that dad is awesome. And like we used to do the claw game. I would put all of their stuffed animals in my lap.
My thumb was the joystick and then my other hand was the claw and they had to move it and I would pick up the stuffed animals. And to them, it was the greatest thing they'd ever done. And we saw it on a cartoon.
And so, incorporating family into it, I feel like it's just, it's really easy. And aside from excuses, there's no reason not to get the kids involved in it. Also, there's a million books about getting kids outside.
And so, like checklists that they can do. Every national park, if for those that don't know or haven't visited national parks, I didn't know this because we didn't go to any national parks growing up, but your kids can become a junior ranger. They get these booklets and they get badges of the individual parks and they have to learn about nature and about the animals that are there and about the history.
And so that became a thing for the kids. Every place we went, it was like, “Oh, I need a junior ranger badge.” And I mean, they had wooden badges just lining their chest.
Like they were some war hero and they absolutely loved it. And so there's things like that locally in nature parks and stuff. But doing it together.
I mean, that's what it's all about. For me, I watched the guys on TV and I'm like, that guy just went to New Zealand by himself or like watching alone. I'm like, I don't want to do that.
It would be pretty crazy, I feel like. I think everybody needs some type of alone time here and there. But for me, I want to share this stuff with my wife, with my kids, with my buddies.
And so, yeah, that's what it's all about.
Sam Mathews: (54:56 - 55:07)
Yeah, like you said, have those stories to tell with your family, of your family members. That way, if something does happen and they pass, you have so much to look back on of the memories you're able to share together.
Laura Dugger: (55:09 - 55:15)
Absolutely. And to bring those up and share them with our kids while we are together. They love hearing stories about when they were little.
Sam Mathews: (55:16 - 55:16)
Oh, yeah.
Laura Dugger: (55:17 - 55:29)
And you guys have taken it a step further where you document it then and preserve. So if we want continued inspiration after this conversation, where can we go to follow you two and your adventures?
Sam Mathews: (55:30 - 56:08)
Yes, we do. Our kids love watching our travels and stuff. We share along for videos and stuff on YouTube, Facebook.
But we share our life on every platform. We are Dan and Sam. Pinterest, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook.
And then Dan has his hunting content over at the Nomadic Outdoorsman. And yeah, we share day-to-day life, what that looks like, lifestyle. But then our travels, our adventures, mom life, welcoming a new baby, our surrogacy journeys, whatever life looks like at that time and how we're enjoying it, what God's teaching us, where we're going.
And we laugh along the way, the encouragement and try to inspire you to live an adventurous, fun-filled life.
Laura Dugger: (56:09 - 56:28)
Love it. We'll add links to all of those things in the show notes for today's episode. And you two may already be familiar that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge.
And so, as my final question for both of you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Sam Mathews: (56:31 - 57:15)
Ooh, practical knowledge. Let's see. I would say with motherhood, don't think that, I don't know if this would be considered savvy sauce, but it's just a good reminder to myself that as a mom, you may think you're alone in something, you're going through it, and it's just you, but you're not.
You are with a community of people who are feeling the same thing that you're walking through, going through the same thing, and just reminding yourself you're not alone because I think it makes the journey a lot easier to know that there's other people walking through the same season, the same hardship, the same joy, the same trials as you. And it makes life a little bit easier when you feel less alone.
Dan Mathews: (57:16 - 58:26)
I think for me, it would be that your kids are going to be an extreme version of what you are. So, if you're showing fear and decisions, if you're hesitant, if you're not trusting the Lord, that's gonna be compounded in their lives. And they're just a more magnified mirror image of what their parents are.
And so, we try to, in everything that we do, go, is this something that's gonna set up our kids for success? And it's not like, oh, we have to have money in the bank for them, you know, for a retirement fund one day or a college fund. I'm talking like everyday lessons.
If I put my phone screen in front of my kids, they're gonna do that more and more and more. If I prioritize things that aren't meant to be prioritized over my wife, they're gonna see that. And so, we try to be very, very clear about what our priorities are.
We try to live intentionally, showing them the right way to do things and being an example to them. And so, yeah, that'd be my savvy sauce.
Laura Dugger: (58:27 - 58:49)
I love it. You two are so full of integrity and you definitely shine the love and the light of Jesus brightly by the way that you live. So, I know I'm leaving this conversation feeling very inspired to choose adventure.
And I just wanna say thank you for being my guest today.
Sam Mathews:
Thank you so much for having us. It was a joy.
Dan Mathews: (58:49 - 58:50)
It was a blast.
Laura Dugger: (58:52 - 1:02:06)
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?
It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.
Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.
We need a savior. But God loved us so much, he made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.
That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says, “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” So, would you pray with me now?
Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life?
We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him. You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason.
We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you ready to get started? First, tell someone.
Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible.
I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the book of John. Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ.
I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.
And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “In the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Aug 11, 2025
Monday Aug 11, 2025
265. Servant Leadership, Mentoring, and Actionable Steps with Kathryn Spitznagle
2 Timothy 2:2 (NIV) "And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others."
**Transcription Below**
Questions and Topics We Cover:
- What are some servant leadership principles you've learned over the years?
- How did you learn forgiveness is part of leadership?
- Will you elaborate on a leadership tool mentioned in your book, which is called the "Hero Page?"
Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage
Kathryn Spitznagle is the author of "Rock Star Millennials--Developing the Next Generation of Leaders," and the companion workbook, "Rock Star Millennials Toolkit." She is a professional coach and the founder of Mentoring Women Millennials, LLC. She has 30+ years of mentoring, coaching and leadership development in corporate, small business and not-for-profit environments as well as 10+ years of mentoring cancer survivors and their families throughout their journey. Her mission is to foster the personal and professional development of leaders... for the life they lead today...and the one they want tomorrow.
Savvy Sauce Episodes Mentioned in Episode:
Biblical Principles as Wise Business Practices with Steve Robinson
Additional Previous Episodes on Business and Leadership on The Savvy Sauce:
The Inside Scoop on Chick-fil-A with Mark Dugger
How to Apply Successful Business Principles to Your Life with Dee Ann Turner
Leadership Principles and Practices with Former NFL Player, J Leman
Thriving at Work, Home, and Life with Author, Blogger, Podcaster, and Business Owner, Crystal Paine
Radical Business and Radical Parenting with Gary & Marla Ringger, Founders of Lifesong for Orphans
Stewardship as the Daughter of Chick-fil-A Founders with Trudy Cathy White
Living Intentionally with Shunta Grant
Generational Differences in the Workplace with Haydn Shaw
Pursuing Your God-Given Dream with Francie Hinrichsen
Uncover Your Purpose with Clarity with Isimemen Aladejobi
Unlocking Meaning and Purpose in Your Life and Overcoming Burnout with Dale Wilsher
Leading Your Family, Marriage, and Self with Justin Maust
Divine Productivity with Matt Perman
223 Journey and Learnings as Former Second Lady of the United States with Karen Pence
Patreon 27 Re-Release: Purposeful and Practical with Emily Thomas
Special Patreon Re-Release: Creativity and Career While Raising a Family with Jean Stoffer
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
Music: (0:00 – 0:09)
Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 1:20)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
I'm thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, WinShape Marriage.
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Kathryn Spitznagle is my enchanting guest for today, and her resume is quite impressive, but what actually is even more of a standout is her humble heart.
So, if you are one who learns from stories and encouragement, and you also appreciate actionable, practical tools, this conversation is definitely for you. Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Kathryn.
Kathryn Spitznagle: (1:21 - 1:24)
Oh, thank you, Laura. Appreciate you having me.
Laura Dugger: (1:24 - 1:32)
Well, I'd love for you just to start us off by giving us a snapshot of your background and also your current phase of life.
Kathryn Spitznagle: (1:33 - 6:47)
Okay, lots of seasons. Yeah, learned, you know, you learn something from all of them. So, I started out in journalism.
I've kind of come back to my roots interviewing folks. I was a sports writer, so I grew up in a family with four brothers, so when I went to college, I knew sports, and at the time, that was unusual to have a female sports So I did that, and then went into publishing after I got my journalism degree, and since I'd been a sports writer, they put me in the men's division of this magazine publishing company. So, I started out learning, I started out working for a helicopter magazine, and I was an editor, and the only one that did know how to fly, and so they sent me to flight school in order to be a better editor and, you know, learn how to communicate with our readers.
And again, then because I'd done that and was in the men's division, they moved me then to shooting times, which was hunting and sports shooting. So, then I learned how to shoot guns and reload in that whole industry. From there, I went to fashion.
So, I went to the women's division, and at first they said, you know, are you sure you want to do this? And I said, well, this will be the first job you've put me on that won't kill me. You know, I've learned how to fly planes and shoot guns.
You know, let me have a shot at that Singer sewing machine. And I was a terrible seamstress. And they said, really, what we want you to do in fashion is to create a presence in New York, in Manhattan.
And so, the publisher was in Peoria, Illinois, but they wanted a presence in Manhattan. And so that's what I did for three years, worked remotely back and forth, and created that presence, joined the Fashion Group International. They hired three consultants to fix me up.
And so, I laugh if you've ever seen the movie Miss Congeniality, that was me. So, you know, learned all about the fashion industry and built those relationships with our advertisers. And also, then we went into television and did a lifetime, the TV show, weekly TV show on Lifetime called Make It Fashion.
And we're trying to blend that the home sewing industry with the fashion industry. So, if you saw this on the runway, in Milan, or in New York, or in Paris, this is how you can make it yourself, be your own designer kind of thing. So that was my journalism start, then moved to St. Louis, got married, had babies, and went into corporate communications, worked for Purina in St. Louis, where I learned so much about leadership, moved back to Peoria, and I went to work for Caterpillar. And when I retired from Caterpillar, then I started this business, Mentoring Women Millennials. And I have such a heart for this generation. I think they're so bright and smart and creative and entrepreneurial, and they get a bad rap.
And so, I wanted to have a platform to lift them up, and also to give them tools. So, the first year I wrote a book, Rockstar Millennials, Developing the Next Generation of Leaders. And what I found, there were so many really sharp, bright millennials that had never had good leaders.
They never had a mentor. They didn't have the tools. Many of them were entrepreneurs.
They didn't intend to lead people. They had a craft. They started a business, and it grew.
And they're like, now I got people. What do I do with people? And as I was out speaking about my business, I found the audience very consistently had two types of attendees.
One was what I would call a seasoned leader, who said, for helping the millennials, thank you. Something along that line. And then I would have a young person stand up and say, “Do you have a book”?
And after that happened several times, okay, Lord, I got this. Yeah, write a book. And I remember saying, “That's a good idea, God, but I don't have time.”
And so if you want to know why COVID happened, it was me. Because the good Lord said, hey, it's February of 2020. It looks like you have time right now.
And so I hired an editor. We wrote a book in four months and published it at the end of the year. And in 2021, then started the podcast.
Laura Dugger: (6:48 - 7:04)
Well, that's an incredible resume and such a whirlwind to getting here today. But you mentioned some leadership principles, especially at Purina. So, Kathryn, what are some of those servant leadership principles that you've learned and acquired over the years?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (7:04 - 9:34)
Over the years, yeah. Just some amazing leaders at Purina. Their culture was very much a servant leadership culture.
Purina as a company was created in the 1950s by an independently wealthy gentleman, William H. Danforth. And he created the Youth Foundation in St. Louis. And he found once he got kids out of gangs and out of jail and off drugs, nobody would hire them. So, he created a company to hire those kids, Purina. And so, they, yes, told us that, you know, the first day he said, you know, this is never confused what we make with why we're here.
We were here, we were created to develop people for life. What we make will change. But the reason we're here will not.
And Danforth also wrote a book called I Dare You. I Dare You to be the best you can be and help someone else do the same. And so that very first day we were told the story of the genesis of Purina, we were given that book, I Dare You.
And when we left orientation, we met, they had 360-degree mentoring. And they said, “This is how we create this culture. And we continue this for generations through mentoring.”
So, when you leave orientation, you're going to meet your leader mentor, your peer mentor, and in 90 days, you'll be mentoring. Everyone at Purina mentors, and we all learn from each other constantly. So that was the platform.
And that was the culture. And when you think about feeling cherished, and valued, that's how they did it. Because if you're going to mentor someone, and someone's going to mentor you, you have value.
And the people you're working with have value. And so that creating a cherished culture was their legacy. And then it's something that I took on to Caterpillar.
And I continue now, in my keynote speaking, that's one of the most popular is how to create a cherished culture in the boardroom, in the living room, and in the classroom. Hmm.
Laura Dugger: (9:35 - 9:47)
And so, I won't ask for the entire keynote speech then, but is there an overview that you can give us of those things that we could implement that you've learned to implement over time as well?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (9:47 - 11:29)
Yes, some of the tools. And, and that was another wonderful thing about Purina that I saw then, and haven't seen it since. You know, it seemed unique to me at the time.
Fast forward a few years, and it was like, yeah, that was very unusual leadership. And one of the things that they valued was, know your people, understand them, know their needs, know their wants. Even at this point, so, you know, I'm talking 30 years ago, I went to work there in 1990.
They were talking about purpose. What's your purpose? Purina had a very specific purpose.
We are a purposeful company. We're here to develop people for life. And, and they even said, I thought this was unique to it at orientation.
They said, and we hire bright, smart people, and we don't expect you to stay here very long. Our job is to send you off better than we found you. And with a positive impression of Purina.
And here's why. When you leave here, you may go to another Fortune 50 company, which I did. You may be in a position to impact a merger or acquisition.
You can buy and sell our stock. And at the very least, when you go to the grocery store, you can buy dog food. And we want it to be Purina.
Laura Dugger: (11:31 - 11:36)
That's incredible. That actually happened then with you taking that forward.
Kathryn Spitznagle: (11:37 - 16:07)
And all of those lessons learned. So, when I talk about creating a cherished culture, Purina, one of the things they did very well was to introduce a concept, illustrate it with a story, and then activate it with a tool. So mentoring, they talked about here is the platform on which our company is built, developing people for life.
And they told us that story then about Purina. Then they gave us the book. And then they gave us a mentor that we were meeting with each week.
And they gave us a, what do I want to say, an outline. So, when you meet with your mentor or mentee, here are questions to ask. Here's a way to go about this.
And the number one reason people do mentor is because they don't know how. What's a process? And so how smart?
Purina's like, here. Here's an outline. Here are things to ask.
Here are discussion topics. And here are different tools we're going to give you as you progress in leadership. And they're designed for you then to pass on.
And so those are some of the tools when I talk about creating a cherished culture. One of the tools is here are questions to ask. Here's how to have that dialogue.
Here are discussion topics. When you're developing a relationship with this person, ask about their life outside of work. Ask about their family and friends and whatever, as much as they'd like to share.
Not everyone does. That's okay too. Ask about their best day at work.
What's a bad day at work? What's their best boss like? How do they like to be recognized?
What's their purpose? One of the most insightful questions they asked at Purina was, why do you want to succeed? And why do you want this company to succeed?
And those two questions give insight to someone's purpose. And so, then if you frame discussions around their purpose and their values, it is exponentially more meaningful to them. So, when I talk about how do you lead millennials and how is it different?
Those are a couple of the things. Understand their purpose. Understand their life. Their values outside of work, and frame things within their purpose.
Here's an example and or their values. If someone says, my values are hard work and transparency. I want people to be honest. Those are a couple of my values.
Okay. So, if I were leading that person and I saw them being transparent with someone else, being open and honest, I would recognize them for that.
Not just recognize them for the work, but recognize them for their value, demonstrating their value. I saw you be open and honest with that person. Thank you for that.
If kindness is a value, I saw you. I saw what you did there today to help someone out without being asked. Thank you for that kindness.
That resonates on a whole different level. And if you have to have a tough discussion with that person to say, frame it in those words. I know you value honesty, and I do too.
And so, we need to have an honest conversation. And here's some things that I'm seeing in your behavior, in your leadership, or in your work style that can hold you back. So, let's fix this whole different way to lead.
Laura Dugger: (16:09 - 16:39)
Absolutely. And I love how some of these even one-page practical tools you've included in the back of your book. So, it's a plug and play, but I'm even thinking back to your mentoring relationships where you had this circle of mentors and you were mentoring.
I think it's also helpful to get to hear one another's mistakes. So, are you comfortable sharing any mistakes that you've made along the way that actually even turned out to be beneficial learning opportunities?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (16:40 - 20:32)
Absolutely. Loads of them. I've got loads of them.
And one of the women I mentor has said, I think I've advanced my career 10 years by learning from your mistakes. And I love that. And she's like, now I'm going to make plenty of my own, but I'm not going to make yours.
And I said, “Good. That's the point of all this.” One of the big ones I made at Purina.
I think a lot of places I would have been fired, probably should have been. I was working in the marketing group, and we were like an internal marketing. So, we did the new product introduction, point of purchase, point of sale materials, the legal documents that went out, the whole packet that would go out to a distributor, a grocery store.
And EverReady Battery was one of our product lines. So, we had internal clients. And as they had new product introductions, we'd get the materials together.
We had in-house printing, all of the things, graphic design, and that was all under my purview. The letter, there's a letter that went out to distributors that was a legal document and had a number. And I pulled the wrong letter, the wrong number.
And it wasn't discovered until last minute. And we sat down with the client and they're like, oh my gosh, this is the wrong legal letter. And I, you know, I'm the account rep, that was on me.
So, I had to go back, I had to go to Neil Lewis, my boss and say, “Okay, we've got to pull this back before it all goes out, reprint, which is going to be all our expense. We're going to have to have people working off shifts and all that sort of thing to do it quickly. And then reassemble all these Eveready Battery packets and, you know, do as close as we can to meeting their deadline.”
And so basically it's going to eat up our margin and we're going to have more printing expense. We're going to have more labor and we're going to have some unhappy people. And our client's not real happy either.
And that was all me. And Neil said to me, “You know, I learned something today. And he said, until today, I thought you walked on water.”
And he said, “Now I know you're human, just like the rest of us.” And I thought, oh, my word. And he's like, okay, so what happened?
That was a mistake. How are we going to fix it? And I said, “I've already pulled the right letter, getting it reprinted. Here's the, additional time and money. Here's how it's going to impact our margin.” And he said, “You know, can we do it? And can we satisfy the customer and get, if not meet their deadline very close?”
And I said, “We can meet their deadline if we have people work third shift.” And, you know, and he said, “Okay, let's do it. That's the right thing to do.” And, and he said, Kathryn, “I told you what I learned today. What did you learn?”
And I said, “I learned how to be the kind of leader I want to be when someone makes a mistake.”
Laura Dugger: (20:36 - 21:05)
Wow. The humility in that is incredible. And thank you for sharing.
Stories are so memorable. It makes me instantly reminded of two previous episodes. I'll make sure I link in the show notes, both with Jeff Henderson and Steve Robinson, accomplished businessmen, but who were also willing to share stories and how just like you, it actually made them a better, more relatable leader.
And so that's encouraging.
Kathryn Spitznagle: (21:06 - 21:34)
And I knew when I got to Caterpillar and, uh, particularly when I was running the Caterpillar visitor center, because that was so new and never been done in Caterpillar. And so, we're going to make some mistakes and we're going to learn, you know, along the way. And there was more than one occasion where I was reminded of Neil Lewis.
And I said, okay, I learned something today. You are human. Just like the rest of us.
Now, how are we going to fix this?
Laura Dugger: (21:35 - 23:48)
And then what did you learn?
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You've had so much experience in different areas and as a corporate leader. So what is it that drew you specifically to have a heart for millennials, which we can define as those approximately born between the 1980s and early 2000s?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (23:50 - 28:18)
I really started working with them. My last role at Caterpillar, I was a director of global sustainability and it was within public affairs. So, we were leading, Caterpillar was leading a natural infrastructure coalition.
I was working with a lot of different entities, public, private, governmental. We're trying to get language passed into law. That was a big portion of my job.
Another portion of my job was to be out speaking about what Caterpillar was doing in the world of sustainability. And I loved that. What I found was the sustainability groups of Caterpillar employees all around the world, we do a global call quarterly, learning what everybody was doing.
They were all this age group. And when we would do the river cleanup on Saturday, these are the people that showed up with their kids. And when we do tree plantings, these are the people that showed up with their kids.
It's like, okay. And I remember saying to my peers, you know what, this group of employees, these young people are not going to retire with a pension like we are with health care like we do. There's so many things that we have garnered through our career appropriately.
They don't have that. What drives loyalty for them and what engages them with Caterpillar are these things. These things we're doing through the foundation where we're giving back and improving the world and the things we're doing in sustainability, giving back, improving the world.
They are so much more engaged in our company through these things. And so, I kind of knew, I thought, okay, I'm not sure exactly where the Lord is leading, but it's going to be with those people. And that was the thing I knew when I retired that, okay, this is what I want to do.
And then the more I worked, you know, I started the business mentoring women millennials. The more I worked with these young women, the more I saw, yes, there's a need. There's a need here.
And I always, you know, again, people would ask, why? Why are you so connected? And I said, first of all, I saw the value in them.
But secondly, I think I was one. My husband and I laughed that we never really fit in with our generation. And here's why.
We both were out of school and working on our careers when we met. And in our generation, you got married right out of high school, or at the very least right out of college. And so, you know, our families had given up.
They're like, they're never going to get married. They're working. They got this whole career thing going.
And so, when we got married, well, then we didn't have children until we were in our 30s. You know, highly irregular for our generation. We were entrepreneurial.
So, we were looking at franchises in our 20s. And our families were like, just get a job. What is this?
You got to buy something and then you buy something else. And my husband owned a business, his first business in his 30s. We both had side hustles.
Again, friends and family were like, just do one job. What is with you guys? Always got all these things, you know, going.
And then when I took the job in fashion, and I was working in Manhattan and living in Peoria, like, what do you even call that kind of work to call it remote? Working remotely? Yeah.
And so, I think part of my heart for them is I was one. And so, when they talk about some of the struggles and the things that are endearing to them, like, I got you. I felt like that, too.
Laura Dugger: (28:20 - 28:57)
That is incredible. And I think it really does make you the perfect person for that mentor mentee relationship. And I kind of want to camp out on that further, because we've alluded to it.
And some of these tips are in your book, where you highlight those discussion topics that give people the tools. But then if we take it a step further or personalize it, how can all of us as listeners begin a mentoring relationship like the one you've described? And I'm even thinking of the beginning point.
Do you think it's up to the mentor or the mentee to initially reach out?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (28:58 - 33:07)
Either one. Yeah, either one can work. When I left Purina, having had this wonderful leadership experience and mentoring environment, I thought, well, this must be what all corporations are like.
No. Doesn't make them bad. They're just different.
So, when I got to Caterpillar that was male, very male dominated, I remember calling my mentor at Purina, who is still my mentor today. She mentored me for 22 years at Caterpillar after I left Purina. And then was one of the biggest proponents of me writing my book and starting my business.
And we still get together today. So, when they talk about developing people for life, they're very serious about that. And so, when I got to Caterpillar, I thought, well, they don't seem to have this.
I think I'll start a mentoring program. Well, I was, you know, some little gal in marketing. You're not going to start a mentoring program for a Fortune 50 company out of that spot.
It comes up through HR and Office of Business Practices and Legal and all of that. Anyway, I called my mentor at Purina, very frustrated, and I said, “Lynn, you and Neil make a place for me. I'm coming back.
They don't have a mentoring program here.” I don't, you know, and she said, “Okay, first of all, we didn't train you up to come back. Your job is to take this forward.”
And she said, “Are there young women there?” Yes. And she said, “Mentor them.”
And she said, “Are there leaders that need support?” And I said, “Yes.” And she said, “Okay, support them.”
She said, “Are there teams that need to be built?” And I said, “Yes.” And she said, “Then you have good work to do there.”
Go. And she hung up. I thought, OK.
And so, from that moment on, when I would see an announcement that would come through email where a woman was being hired into Caterpillar, I would reach out to her and just say, do you have a mentor or would you like one? And for 22 years, they all said yes. And so that's what I did.
I worked with those women. And, you know, here's another God wink when my announcement went out, then that I was retiring. These women all started coming back to me wherever they were in the nation and even in the world.
Many of them had gone on to do other things, bigger, better things. And they all started reaching out to me. Someone had forwarded the announcement to them and said, “We want you to start a business, a mentoring business and help others just like you helped us, and we will help you.”
And one said, “You need to write a book, and I'll write the forward.” Another one said, “Yes, and you need to do podcasts and I'll be on one.” Another one said, “I know what's going to stop you at your website, so I'm going to help you with your website.”
Another one said, “You're going to need testimonials.” So, she posted on social media that anyone that's ever been mentored by Kathryn Spitznagel, leave a message here. Very humbling.
And another one said, “I'm now VP of a big company in Chicago and I will hire you.” And so, I retired one day and started a business the next.
Laura Dugger: (33:09 - 33:30)
Incredible how that all came back around. And I gleaned so much from your stories in your book, and then even getting to connect with you before today. But there's another story about servant leadership that you shared from the man who you've named your previous boss, Neil Lewis.
Will you share? Do you know which one I'm thinking of?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (33:31 - 36:35)
Yeah. You need to know three personal things about everyone who works for you. Okay.
So, Neil Lewis had leadership meetings. There were 12 of us were his leadership team every Monday morning. He was also a minister outside of work.
So, a lot of times we would laugh that we were getting the rehash of the sermon from yesterday as part of his leadership. But he often gave us assignments. And one Monday morning, he said, okay, here's your assignment.
I want you to know three personal things about everyone who works for you. And they need to be things that aren't in their personnel file. And he said, I'm going to ask you sometime this week about one of those people, but you won't know which one.
So, you need to know all of them. And I, you know, lousy leader, I was just learning. And I said, Neil, I have 10 people, three things, 10 people, that's 30 things I got to know.
And he said, Kathryn, good math. You have some work to do. So, I went back, and I interviewed each one of my 10 people, three things, found him out, followed the assignment.
And I was ready. And I saw him in the hall later in the week. He said, “Kathryn, walk with me. I'm going to the next meeting.” I said, “Okay.” Tell me three personal things about Kathy, who works for you. I said, “Okay.”
Kathy has recently divorced. Uh, she has an 18-month-old baby, and she is moving to a new apartment. And he said, “What have you done to help her?”
And honest to God, I said, “That wasn't part of the assignment.” And he looked at me and I said, “No, wait a minute. I did help her.
I changed her hours. She has a longer commute now into St. Louis. So, she's going to come in at 8:30 am and work till 5:00 pm.”
And I was feeling pretty proud of myself, like bonus question. And he said, “Did she come to you, or did you go to her?” And I said, “Well, she came to me, but I said, it was okay.”
So, Kathryn know your people. If you don't know your people, you don't know what they need. And if you don't know what they need, you can't help them.
And if you can't help them, what in the world are you doing here? It says leaders were here to serve. And if you're not here to serve, you need to step out.
I became a different leader that day. One who chose to lead by serving.
Laura Dugger: (36:38 - 37:17)
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Kathryn Spitznagle: (37:18 - 38:19)
You know, the other piece, uh, the other thing that he taught me there, uh, Laura, as we continued to walk, uh, because he always wanted to bring things back around to, to a positive. He was going to make his point, but he was not going to leave me there, you know? He said, Kathryn, “Do you understand what you missed there?”
It was such a missed opportunity with Kathy, um, to engage her and to help her feel cherished. He said, “That's the difference when you anticipate someone's needs and you go to them before they ask. That's the opportunity.”
That's the gold. That's what engages people and, uh, garners their loyalty. And that's when they feel cherished.
That was the real missed opportunity.
Laura Dugger: (38:23 - 38:35)
And that never left you. And that's probably blessed so many people hearing that. What about lessons of forgiveness in leadership as well?
Do you have any stories to illustrate that?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (38:35 - 42:28)
Yes. And that's another lesson from, from Neil Lewis that was a profound lesson for me that I've never heard anywhere else. Forgiveness is part of leadership. So, I learned this, um, again, lousy leader just starting out.
And, um, when he put me into leadership, I was like, how hard could it be? Tell people what to do. They do it.
And then came my first employee opinion survey results and they were bad. The numbers were bad. The comments were bad.
The people were unhappy. Um, and the comments to me were, were hurtful. They were justified, but they were hurtful.
And so, when I got, uh, you know, got all the information, I left, I was upset. The next day when I came into the office, I just went into my office and closed the door. I thought they don't want to talk to me.
I don't want to talk to them. That's fine. I was working here.
So, Neil gave me a little time to cool off. And then he came in and, um, on my desk, uh, one of the things that they, um, Purina does in terms of creating that cherished culture is, um, to have things around you that revitalize you. And so, they ask you one of the first days about what, what are things that revitalize you?
And I said, okay, uh, fresh flowers revitalize me. They remind me of my grandmother, nanny, and being in the garden. Um, notes are cards from handwritten, you know, from friends and family and a walk outside.
Those are three things that revitalize me. Okay. So again, I registered with Neil Lewis.
He knew that was a way to frame things for me. So, when he came in that morning, he picked up one of the cards from my desk and he handed it to me and he said, to read that card. And I said, you can read it.
He said, “No. No, I'm asking you to read it out loud to me.” So, it was a card from someone on my team, very complimentary about my leadership style and what it, how it impacted them. And he said, “Is that the leader you are today?”
And I said, “No, but in fairness, they were mean to me. They said some very hurtful things and yeah, I'm not happy.” He said, “Okay.”
And he said, “Kathryn, as leaders, our job is to give first and give again”. And he said, “Do you know what the bridge is between giving first and giving again?” And I said, “No.”
I said, “Neil, I'm not tracking with you.” And he said, “Forgive.” And I said, “Oh, forgiveness.”
And he said, “Nope. Forgiveness is something someone else does. That's a noun. Forgive is a verb. And that's what I need to see you do. Forgive.”
He said, “Kathryn, forgiveness is a big part of leadership and it's something that will hold you back for the rest of your life. So, I am asking you today to be the leader I know you to be and forgive them.”
Laura Dugger: (42:32 - 42:52)
Well, in even the way he modeled that in the way you shared that story, it also reminds me of another leadership tool that you mentioned in your book, which I think if somebody is experiencing this, that could be a really practical next step. So, it's called the hero page. Will you elaborate on that for us?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (42:52 - 52:07)
Yes. And so, at Purina, when they talked about having these one-on-ones with your team, with your mentees, with your mentors, kind of framing the dialogue in three buckets, called it three bucket exercise. And I still, this is how I still mentor today.
Uh, so the first thing we ask people to come prepared with is bucket one. What are we celebrating? What have you learned? What have you accomplished? What has gone so well?
Um, since the last time we spoke, because we, as people, but particularly as women pass through things very quickly and go, yep, done good onto the next. Yeah. We don't take that time to celebrate.
And Purina was very focused on what they called reveling. Take just a minute to revel. That was good work, did good work, but whatever was accomplished personal and professional, it was, there were things at home, baby slept four hours straight.
Okay. So, bucket one, what are we celebrating?
Um, so bucket one, they called aha.
Bucket two, they called, hmm, what is, uh, what's out there that you need to, um, do, you know, what's on your to-do list. Is there something you need to get a plan for?
Um, is there something that you want to talk through that's kind of on your assignment board, something like that. And we'll talk through some tactics.
Bucket three is what in the world.
So, anything that seems overwhelming, uh, caught you by surprise. You didn't know it was part of the job. You didn't know it was part of life.
Those are the things we want to talk about in bucket three, every time. So, you want me to tell you the things that are overwhelming me and that I don't know where to start. Yes.
Yes. Every week, because here's what we'll do. We will take the power out of that.
Once you, that's it. We're going to fix it and say, okay, this is what's overwhelming me. This is what I'm anxious about.
This is what caught me by surprise. And we're going to figure out how to break it down into something actionable. And then we're going to move it to bucket two.
And next week, we're going to be talking about those action steps and pretty soon it's going to move to bucket one. There you go. We're celebrating that process that I learned at Purina still did at Caterpillar and doing today.
Um, that just warms my heart. Uh, when I see, um, the folks that I've worked with who've now gone on to do other things. And, uh, one of the guys on my team at Caterpillar, um, now works for McDonald's in Chicago.
And he said that Kathryn, that's our onboarding process. And so, anybody that comes through his team in McDonald's, that's what they learn how to do. And he said that it was just gold.
And you can talk about creating a safe space, but again, the difference with Purina was they gave you a tool, not ours, we are a cherished culture. We create a safe space. And you know what, here's how, by asking this question and by setting aside time to answer it and wrestle with it and work through it.
Now, having said all that, where do you put this information as you're learning this about this person? Uh, you're learning what they're celebrating. You're learning, um, what their values are.
You're learning what they like to do outside of work. What's important to them learning about their purpose. That's a hero page.
And so, they gave us a tool and they said, you know, it's very simple, a hero page. You, you just record things that you have learned about this person that you respect and admire about them. And you can do one for yourself.
They ask you to do the first one for you. Um, but then also to do them for, you can do them for a peer or a leader. Um, you can also do them for someone you're struggling with because oftentimes we aren't really looking for the positives in that person.
So, the, uh, the logic behind the hero page is once you've created it, uh, you're going to look for things to put on it. Positives, all positives, negatives we remember. Positives we're looking for and that's the first reason.
The second reason for a hero page is you may have a tough day with that person sometime. And if you do, you go back and look at your hero page and it puts things in perspective.
Yeah, this isn't going well today, but here are the things I respect and admire about this person. And yes, um, perspective.
The third reason is they may have a tough day sometime and what an incredible gift you can be to them.
Here's an example. When I worked at Caterpillar, um, had wonderful leaders, some remarkable women leaders at Caterpillar, I think because there were so few of them, they were rock stars. And one that I worked for, uh, was sent to Beijing, China on a short term, like a, I don't know, six month or one year assignment as it at the same time, I was also mentoring someone in that Beijing office and it was very remote.
They were, in a remote area, creating an office, creating an HR office, you know, where they, where there's a factory and the person I was mentoring said, you know, let me give you an idea of what we're struggling with here. What kind of, what our situation is. And I'm at corporate and I said, well, whatever it is, I think I could send you some of our signage, some of our value signs.
Those are, those are, that's what you need. I'll send you some value signs. You can put them up on your walls.
And she said, Kathryn, we don't have walls. We're working out of a tent. And she said, each morning we send a bus out to the rural areas here in China and it stops to pick up workers.
And if dad can't go, he sends mom. And if mom can't go, she puts a couple of kids on the bus. And we never know from day to day who's coming to work.
What we do know is that the bus will be full. They will get two meals while they're at work, breakfast and lunch. And then when it returns them home, they will have gotten paid.
She said, we are all but paying people and chickens. Do you understand the situation, the gravity of what we're trying to do to come in here and create an office and HR processes? And she said, first, we're trying to determine who our employees are.
I said, “Oh, our leader is struggling”. And she said, “Will you get on a call with her today?” I said, “Give me a minute.”
And she said, “You're going to get her hero page.” So, we got on the call. Lois, “Kathryn, is this the woman that led one of the first NPI projects for Caterpillar as a woman with our flagship tractor?”
And she said, “Yes.” I said, “Is this the woman who was handed a belt buckle and a t-shirt and created global merchandising stores all around the world?” And she said, “Yes.”
I said, “Is this the woman who has been married 30 plus years happily, raised two remarkable children and showed us all it was possible?” Yes. I said, “I don't know what you're struggling with today, but I do know the woman who did these things can tackle this.”
What a gift you would be to another leader on the day that they needed it in that moment, just to remind them of their value.
Laura Dugger: (52:10 - 52:40)
That encouragement is so powerful. And you're such an engaging storyteller. And like you had mentioned previously, you've gone on from corporate America to now beginning your own business, including your podcast that will link to Rockstar Millennials.
So, I'm curious, Kathryn, are there any stories from those podcast episodes that really come to mind as you think of any standout lessons or your favorites?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (52:41 - 55:51)
Oh my gosh. There are so many. It just seems like when I think I can't meet someone any more incredible, I do.
And again, good Lord's hand, they come from all different paths. We're international now. A couple of them that really stand out to me, Michael Kuzma,: he invented the self-playing guitar.
He knew people in his life who had either never been able to play the guitar and wanted to, or they had experienced some sort of an injury or illness that then prevented them from doing what they loved. And so, he created this and just said, “I want this to bring joy and be fun for people.” And I guess the part of the platform that I have for the podcast is purpose.
How are you living your purpose? Khushi Shah is 19 years old. So, she's a little bit younger than a millennial even.
Created a company called Drizzl and it is an informed, what I want to say, it's an irrigation company. And she created this as a science project in grade school. She's now in college at MIT and Harvard and Northeastern.
So, she's attending classes at all. She went to a science and math school in Chicago for high school, finished early and took a gap year at 17. And I said, “So you traveled?”
And she said, “Nope, I decided I'd just run that business full-time, Drizzl.” And so, her families of Indian descent. They'd gone to India and seen the need for water, clean water.
And she said, coming back to the States, I saw sprinklers, lawn sprinklers running and it was raining. And I thought, I need to fix that. There are products on the market that will turn a sprinkler off if it's raining.
Her product is predictive. She's 19. Yeah.
So, folks from St. Jude, folks from Midwest Food Bank, just incredible. Obviously, I can't name one.
There are so many. And those who are living their purpose in all walks of life, in all places around the world, I want to talk to.
Laura Dugger: (55:52 - 56:07)
Wow. And Kathryn, you've invested in so many people and highlighted so many people through your podcast. As you look back, what are you happiest that you invested your life in?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (56:09 - 57:07)
Well, I'm a mom, boy mom. So that would have to be my first, my boys. Again, one of the women that I mentor said to me early on, Kathryn, one of the things I love the most is you're from the other side.
I said, Kelsey, what does that mean? I'm from the other side. And she said, you've already done all of this.
You've done the corporate life. You understand small business. You have a decades long, happy marriage.
You've raised your boys. They're happy. They're successful.
If you did this, we can do this and you can help us. And so that investment on so many levels, yeah, is coming back.
Laura Dugger: (57:08 - 57:19)
I love that. And would you be willing just to share anything else about your business or what all you have to offer so that we can continue learning from you after this conversation?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (57:20 - 1:00:49)
Oh, absolutely. So, the book that you mentioned, Rockstar Millennials, Developing the Next Generation of Leaders. That's the book.
And it recounts so many of these leadership stories. And then in the back, as you said, are the different tools. And I have to credit the Caterpillar engineers because when I went to Caterpillar and I would tell these stories about Purina or I would live something that they had taught me.
Very early on, in the meeting, or after the meeting, some of these gentlemen came up to me and said, “That thing you just did in that meeting, can you write that down? Like what?” And they said, “Like the words and or the process.”
And so, it began. So, I'd start writing down the words and they might put a graphic with it or somehow improve it. And so, through the years, this same group kept coming back to me.
And when they saw the announcement that I was retiring, they showed up again and said, “Okay, we need one more thing, a spreadsheet.” What do you mean a spreadsheet? They said, “You know, all through the years, we have all of these tools now that we've created out of your head on this paper that we can use and we're using.”
If you can give us a spreadsheet that says, “If you're having this leadership issue, use this tool.” So, God bless the engineers.
So, I credit them, and the tools are in the back of the hard book.
What I found when I started doing workshops was people didn't want to write in the book and they also wanted something bigger and they wanted a place to make notes and doodle and that sort of thing. So that's why we have the book and then the toolkit. So, my business is Mentoring Women Millennials and I do one on one mentoring with individuals, small business primarily.
They'll bring me in to work with their women leaders, but also just individuals who are in some sort of a transition in life or that have never had a mentor and would like one. And so, I do the one-on-one mentoring also with nonprofits. And I'm now an 18-year breast cancer survivor, still in treatment.
And I also mentor breast cancer survivors. And keynote speaking. I work with the Capital City Speakers Bureau.
And so, I do speaking there and I'm prepping for a TED Talk. So those are the next things.
Laura Dugger: (1:00:50 - 1:01:16)
I love it. Always something up your sleeve. We will link to your website so that people can follow up and get in touch if that would be a good partnership.
And you may already be familiar that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so as my final question for you today, Kathryn, what is your Savvy Sauce?
Kathryn Spitznagle: (1:01:18 - 1:01:49)
Um, when I left Purina, um, I asked Neil, “You know, how do I ever repay this company that has given so much to me?” And he said, “Take what you've learned and help someone else.” And so, if you learn from me, that would be my ask, help someone else.
Laura Dugger: (1:01:50 - 1:02:05)
I love that. Amen. Great Savvy Sauce.
And Kathryn, you're just so poised and classy and full of insight. And it was an absolute pleasure to get to host you as my guest today. So, thank you for being my guest.
Kathryn Spitznagle: (1:02:05 - 1:02:07)
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Laura Dugger: (1:02:09 - 1:05:52)
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?
It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.
Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.
We need a savior. But God loved us so much, he made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.
That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says, “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” So, would you pray with me now?
Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life?
We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him. You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason.
We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you ready to get started? First, tell someone.
Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible.
I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the book of John. Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ.
I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.
And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “In the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Aug 04, 2025
Monday Aug 04, 2025
Top Ten from 2024: #1 Stories Series: Prodigal and Redemption with Renee Endress
**Transcription of original episode** 237. Stories Series: Prodigal and Redemption with Renee Endress
Isaiah 61:1-3 (KJV) "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified."
Questions and Topics We Cover:
- Will you tell us a bit about your experience of surrendering your life to Christ?
- Will you share your journey with your prodigal daughter, Andrea?
- Will you tell us about Grace Catering and your cookbooks?
Renée Endress is blessed to be the mother of seven children ranging from 16-32 years old, all of whom she homeschooled. Four of the seven are married and her six precious grandchildren bring her much joy and laughter! She is also part of a church family she loves and her dear parents passed on to her a love of sunsets, flowers, and the beauty of God's creation.
Cooking has been a passion for much of her life and she's written three cookbooks, which were later combined into one large book. For the past ten years, she enjoyed catering, which kept growing and eventually blossomed into an almost full-time job. A couple years ago, she refurbished a building in Peoria, Illinois, which is now her catering kitchen where they make homemade take and bake meals for people to purchase. Through it all, God has been so good!
Renée says, "I could share just the pretty parts of my life, but I've come to realize that something special can happen when people are real with each other -- when we share the muddy parts of our lives as well as the lovely parts. This can be used to encourage each other on the journey, and most of all, to point to the faithfulness of our amazing Savior, who loves to redeem our mud stories.
My story looks much different than my idealistic hopes for my future as a young woman, but through it all, God has been faithful every single step of the way. He was faithful in teaching me as an immature newlywed struggling through some very difficult relationship situations. He was faithful as I walked, tripped, and floundered with a daughter through some very dark teenage years, deep rebellion, ten months at a residential facility for troubled teens, and a teenage pregnancy. He was oh, so faithful when my difficult marriage of twenty-four years turned more and more destructive and led to an ongoing separation. He was faithful two years later when I was diagnosed with breast cancer and underwent two surgeries and radiation treatments. He has been faithful through ten years of "single" motherhood. He was faithful as He opened doors for me to start a thriving catering business at the perfect time. He was faithful when He allowed me to be a part of starting "Beauty for Ashes," a group for women from my national church who have come from painful marriages. As I look back on my life, I see plainly His footprints all the way through.
These verses have been so meaningful in my life: "...He hath sent me (Jesus) to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound... to comfort all that mourn... to give them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that He might be glorified." Isaiah 61:1-3"
Visit Renée's Business or Order Her Popular Cookbook at Grace Catering
Other Related Episode from The Savvy Sauce:
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday Jul 28, 2025
Monday Jul 28, 2025
Top Ten from 2024: #2 Escape from Modern Day Sex Slavery with Rachel Timothy
*DISCLAIMER* This episode includes thematic material and may be triggering. It is only intended for mature audiences and those who are not triggered by graphic sexual content.
**Transcription of original episode** 229. Escape from Modern Day Sex Slavery with Rachel Timothy
Ephesians 5:8-14 (NIV) For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. This is why it is said: “Wake up, sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”
Rachel Timothy was only nine years old when she was first approached by a perpetrator who was known to her as a teacher and coach. In her books, she goes into detail of the process of being groomed and how the evil of what was happening to her in the dark remained unseen by everyone around her. She describes how she coped for so many years by blocking out the memories only to have them resurface when she was an adult with a family of her own. Rachel had no idea that when she would pursue justice it would end up putting her right back in the world of trafficking. It wasn’t until her church family saw the signs and believed what she was saying that she was able to start the process of finding freedom. Rachel shows her faith and love of God during the highs and lows of her journey and she prays for each person who reads her story. That their eyes will be opened and their actions will lead us toward ending sex trafficking in our world.
Rachel's Books:
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
- Will you share your story with us?
- Will you close the loop on an update to today?
- How can we recognize signs of trafficking in our children and in our community?
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday Jul 21, 2025
Monday Jul 21, 2025
Top Ten from 2024: #3 Holy Sex: An Interview with Dr. Juli Slattery
**Transcription of original episode** Special Patreon Release: Holy Sex: An Interview with Dr. Juli Slattery
Philippians 2:4 (AMP) “Do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others."
Dr. Juli Slattery is a clinical psychologist, author, speaker and the president/co-founder of Authentic Intimacy, ministry dedicated to reclaiming God’s design for sexuality. Every Monday she hosts the podcast Java with Juli, where she and a guest sit down for coffee and honest conversation about relationships, sex, intimacy, pornography, singleness, and God’s design for our sexuality.
Juli is the author of ten books, including Finding the Hero in Your Husband, Passion Pursuit, and Rethinking Sexuality. She and her husband Mike are the parents of 3 sons; they live in Akron, Ohio.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Dr. Juli Slattery’s Website, Authentic Intimacy
Books by Dr. Juli Slattery:
25 Questions You’re Afraid to Ask About Love, Sex, and Intimacy
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Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday Jul 14, 2025
Monday Jul 14, 2025
Top Ten from 2024: #4 Surprising Discoveries of Sex in Marriage: An Interview with Shaunti Feldhahn
*DISCLAIMER* This episode is intended for adults.
**Transcription of original episode** 224. Surprising Discoveries of Sex in Marriage: An Interview with Shaunti Feldhahn
Deuteronomy 29:29a (NKJV) "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us"
Questions and Topics We Cover:
- Are there any specific questions you recommend we ask our spouse periodically?
- Will you elaborate on your finding that "men and women tend to have different insecurities that the process of sex can help heal or hurt"?
- You write "Having a comfortable way to signal (and receive) openness or interest will create connection and prevent much pain." So, how can couples begin to develop their own private language or signals to communicate effectively in a healthy manner?
Thank You to Our Sponsor: The Sue Neihouser Team
Shaunti Feldhahn received her graduate degree from Harvard University and was an analyst on Wall Street before unexpectedly becoming a social researcher, best-selling author, and popular speaker.
Today, Shaunti applies her analytical skills to investigate eye-opening, life-changing truths about relationships, both at home and in the workplace. Her groundbreaking research-based books, such as For Women Only, The Kindness Challenge, and Thriving in Love & Money, have sold more than 3 million copies in 25 languages. Her books and studies are popular in homes, counseling centers, and corporations worldwide.
Shaunti (often with her husband, Jeff) has spoken around the world, sharing her findings with audiences ranging from churches to women’s and marriage conferences to arena events to youth camps and cruises (yes, those are particularly painful…). Her research and commentary are regularly featured in media as diverse as The Today Show, Focus on the Family, The New York Times and MomLife Today. Shaunti, Jeff, and their two children live in Atlanta and enjoy every minute of living life at warp speed.
Secrets of Sex and Marriage Website
Previous Episodes on Sexual Intimacy on The Savvy Sauce:
Fostering a Fun, Healthy Sex Life with your Spouse with Dr. Jennifer Konzen
Ways to Deepen Your Intimacy in Marriage with Dr. Douglas Rosenau
Ten Common Questions About Sex, Shared Through a Biblical Worldview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Easy Changes to Enhance Your Sexual Intimacy in Marriage with Dr. Clifford and Joyce Penner
Hope For Treating Pelvic Pain with Tracey LeGrand
Treatment for Sexual Issues with Certified Sex Therapist, Emma Schmidt
Talking With Your Kids About Sex with Brian and Alison Sutter
Natural Aphrodisiacs with Christian Certified Sex Therapist, Dr. Douglas Rosenau
Pain and Joy in Sexual Intimacy with Psychologist and Certified Sex Therapist, Dr. Jessica McCleese
Identifying and Fighting Human Trafficking with Dr. Jeff Waibel
Hormones and Body Image with Certified Sex Therapist, Vickie George
Passion Pursuit with Dr. Juli Slattery
Female Orgasm with Sue Goldstein
Erectile Dysfunction, Premature Ejaculation, and Treatments Available with Dr. Irwin Goldstein
Turn Ons, Turn Offs, and Savoring Sex in Marriage with Dr. Jennifer Konzen
Desire Discrepancy in Marriage with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Answering Listener's Questions About Sex with Kelli Willard
Anatomy of an Affair with Dave Carder
Supernatural Restoration Story with Bob and Audrey Meisner
Healthy Minds, Marriages, and Sex Lives with Drs. Scott and Melissa Symington
Female Pornography Addiction and Meaningful Recovery with Crystal Renaud Day
Building Lasting Relationships with Clarence and Brenda Shuler
Healthy Ways for Females to Increase Sexual Enjoyment with Tracey LeGrand
Pornography Healing for Spouses with Geremy Keeton
Sexual Sin Recovery for You and Your Spouse (Part Two)
Personal Development and Sexual Wholeness with Dr. Sibylle Georgianna
Our Brain’s Role in Sexual Intimacy with Angie Landry
Discovering God's Design for Romance with Sharon Jaynes
Sex in Marriage and Its Positive Effects with Francie Winslow, Part 1
Science and Art of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage, Part 2
Making Love in Marriage with Debra Fileta
Mutually Pleasing Sex in Marriage with Gary Thomas
Sex Series: God’s Design and Warnings for Sex: An Interview with Mike Novotny
Sex Series: Enhancing Female Pleasure and Enjoyment of Sex: An Interview with Dr. Jennifer Degler
Sex Series Orgasmic Potential, Pleasure, and Friendship: An Interview with Bonny Burns
Sex Series: Sex Series: Healthy Self, Healthy Sex: An Interview with Gaye Christmus
Sex Series: Higher Sexual Desire Wife: An Interview with J Parker
Sex Series: Six Pillars of Intimacy with Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo
215 Enriching Women's Sexual Function, Part One with Dr. Kris Christiansen
216 Enriching Women's Sexual Function, Part Two with Dr. Kris Christiansen
217 Tween/Teen Females: How to Navigate Changes during Puberty with Dr. Jennifer Degler
218 Secrets of Sex and Marriage: Interview with Dr. Michael Sytsma
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday Jul 07, 2025
Monday Jul 07, 2025
Proverbs 15:1 (NIV) "A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."
**Transcription of original episode** 227. Resolving Conflict in Marriage with Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo
As co-hosts of the top marriage podcast in Apple Podcasts, the ONE Extraordinary Marriage Show, Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo speak to a worldwide audience about sex, love & commitment, and challenge every listener to make their relationship a priority. Their best selling book, The 6 Pillars of Intimacy, has transformed countless marriages around the world. This framework is simple, practical, and powerful. You’ll be inspired to look at your marriage through a new lens and be encouraged by its commonsense approach.
One Extraordinary Marriage Website
One Extraordinary Marriage Show
Questions We Discuss:
- For couples who are not in destructive and abusive marriages, what are typical conflict styles and cycles?
- What conflict have you had recently and how did you process through it?
- What are common issues couples fight about?
Thank You to Our Sponsor: The Homeschool Printing Company
Other Episode Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce:
146 Biblical Response to Emotionally Destructive Relationships with Leslie Vernick
190 Sex Series: Six Pillars of Intimacy with Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo
205 Power of Movement with Alisa Keeton (Revelation Wellness)
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday Jun 30, 2025
Monday Jun 30, 2025
Top Ten from 2024: #6 Friendship is Essential as a Christ-Follower with Justin Whitmel Earley
Genesis 2:18a (NIV) "The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone.”
**Transcription of original episode** 225. Friendship is Essential as a Christ-Follower with Justin Whitmel Earley
Justin Whitmel Earley is a writer, speaker, and lawyer. He is the author of the award-winning books Habits of the Household and The Common Rule, though he spends most days running his business law practice. Through his writing and speaking, Justin empowers God’s people to thrive through life-giving habits that form them in the love of God and neighbor. His latest book, Made for People, delves deep into the profound impact of friendship and offers transformative strategies to combat loneliness. He lives with his wife and four boys in Richmond, Virginia, and spends a lot of time around fires and porches with friends.
Questions We Discuss:
- How does becoming more like Jesus look similar to becoming more like a friend?
- What are some questions we can ask our friends the next time we get together, in hopes of taking our conversation and connection to a deeper level?
- Will you share your experience when you recognized friends are essential in the battle against evil?
Thank You to Our Sponsor: The Homeschool Printing Company
Additional Recommended Episode from The Savvy Sauce:
90 Friendship with Drew Hunter
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”