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Monday Feb 07, 2022
Monday Feb 07, 2022
171. Tiny Habits for Enormous Change with Juni Felix
"And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:18 (ESV)
Questions We Discuss:
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Will you elaborate on your childhood and your journey through trauma and recovery?
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What are tiny habits and why are they so powerful?
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Will you now explain the systematic formula for human behavior that you refer to from Dr. B. J. Fogg?
Juni Felix is a member of New York Times–bestselling author Dr. B. J. Fogg’s Stanford Behavior Design Lab Teaching Team, a C. S. Lewis Institute Fellow, a speaker, and a podcast and radio host. As a Tiny Habits® coach who has long used the method to help others transform lives and relationships with God, Juni has gone on to be a leader in the church, and through her speaking, broadcasting, and podcasting ministries, an encourager to people around the world.
Highly awarded for volunteer and community service, she’s a technologist specializing in Behavior Design, assisting innovators from varied industries in the creation of collaborative teams and community-minded products, systems, and services to make the world a better place. As a presenting author at the thirteenth annual Persuasive Technology Conference, she shared ideas for caring for, feeling, and understanding cities of the future.
She loves to travel the world collecting stores of hope—and also hiking and playing hours of video games. Her family motto is “Always pray, always play, and never give up!” You can follow her ongoing global adventures at JuniFelix.com.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Forgiving What You Can't Forget
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Sam Leman Eureka
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday Jan 24, 2022
Monday Jan 24, 2022
170. Mastering Technology so it Does Not Master You with Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd
**Transcription Below**
Matthew 6:22 (NIV) "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light."
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
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When you look at brain science research, what have you learned about how technology rewires our brains?
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What is most helpful in restoring and repairing our brains and our relationships?
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As it relates to the future, where do you think technology is headed and what should be on our radar?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd is the Director of the Flourish Center for Wellbeing in Knoxville, TN, and as the Founder and President of Flourish Wellbeing University. She has a Master's Degree specializing in Christian Counseling, and a Doctorate in Leadership. She is also an ICF (PCC) Professional Certified Coach, a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach, and ICF Mentor Coach. She is the co-author with her father Dr. Archibald Hart of "The Digital Invasion: How Technology is Shaping You and Your Relationships". She lives with her husband of 37 years in beautiful Knoxville, TN we they one daughter, two sons, one son-in-law, one daughter-in-law, two beautiful grand daughters and an adorable grand-son. She is passionate about coaching people to flourish and thrive in their: Spiritual Emotional, Mental, Physical, Relational, and Vocational wellbeing. Sylvia is most restored and experiences God when she is close to water, walks in nature, creates beauty and has deep coaching conversations.
Flourish Center for Well-Being
Email Dr. Frejd at DrSylvia@FlourishCenterforWellbeing.com
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
The Digital Invasion by Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd
Thrilled to Death by Dr. Archibald Hart
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Leman Property Management Company
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <Music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:18] <Music>
Laura Dugger: Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home with over 1,700 apartment units available in central Illinois. Visit them today at lemanproperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd is my guest today. She has advanced degrees in Christian counseling and leadership, and she's passionate about coaching people to flourish and thrive in all aspects of well-being. Today we're going to zero in on digital wellbeing as we talk about a book she co-authored with her late partner, Dr. Archibald Hart, titled The Digital Invasion: How Technology is Shaping You and Your Relationships. Listen in as we discuss technology's impact on our brains and our relationships. Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Sylvia.
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Oh, thanks, Laura, for having me today on your podcast. It's a joy to get to talk with you.
Laura Dugger: [00:01:26] Well, I'm excited just to hear a little bit more about your journey that led you to where you are today.
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Oh, yes, absolutely. Well, I was actually born and raised in South Africa. My family moved to Los Angeles when I was ten for my dad, Dr. Archibald Hart, to be the dean at Fuller Seminary. He was actually one of the founders of Christian Psychology. And my mom actually was the chaplain to student wives for many years there at Fuller.
I did just want to say at the outset that both my parents died last summer, actually two and a half weeks apart. But they had a huge impact on my life. I just count it as a privilege to carry on their legacy. It was actually an honor to coauthor my book, The Digital Invasion, with my dad a few years ago. It was actually my first book, it was his last book. He was 83 when he wrote it, which I think is so encouraging for all of us that it's never too late or you're never too old.
But it was through researching that topic of this digital invasion that I really developed my passion to help families to thrive in their real life and relationships. It was a very personal journey for myself as I had my own wake up call to my son's video gaming addiction. So it's been a very personal journey to help my own family to carry on what my dad said was probably his most important work, and it was his final kiss, so to speak, to the church before he left this earth. So I'm very privileged and really humbled to do this work.
So now I founded the Flourish Wellbeing University, where I'm just teaching people how to flourish in their lives. I do grief and loss intensives. I'm very passionate about that topic. I've been married for 37 years and I have three children and I'm a nana to three beautiful grandchildren. I live with that every day, watching their exposure to the digital world and how hard it is to try to protect them from all that's out there and really helping my children parent my grandkids in a healthy use of technology.
Laura Dugger: [00:03:41] Well, you are an incredible woman. And I do just want to acknowledge the loss of both your parents so close together. I just want to say I'm profoundly thankful for all of your family. You've made such an impact in God's kingdom here on earth, and especially through Christian Psychology. So I do want to say I'm so sorry for your loss.
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Thank you, Laura. I appreciate that. My parents were 87 and 89 and they lived a full life and they finished well. And I hope that we all are encouraged to do the same thing.
Laura Dugger: [00:04:17] Yes. Well, like you said, you have researched so much about our digital lives. I just want to start here. What is your theology of technology?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: My father and I really spent a lot of time coming up with what is a good theology of technology. You don't hear a lot of this necessarily from the pulpit. So we would like to give that to people, what we believe. I have a long version in my book, but basically the simple version is just that God created us in His image to be relational beings, to be in relationship with Him, to be in relationship with ourselves, in relationship with others.
We believe that this technology is a gift. It's an amazing gift, and that we are to steward it well and that we're not to become slaves to it. But it's a tool ultimately to be used for God's glory. So that's kind of, in a nutshell, just our theology of technology.
Laura Dugger: [00:05:19] Let's focus on the positives first. How do you think we can use technology to further the kingdom of God?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Laura, there are so many positive uses. And we really emphasized that when we wrote the book and when we speak on this topic, that technology is... and I've heard it said it's like a brick, right? You can use a brick to build a cathedral or you can use a brick to destroy something. So it can be used... I think of going to all the world to preach the gospel and how today, through technology, we can share the gospel.
I wish that I would do this more. And I’d encourage our listeners to think about, you know, how can we really share scriptures? I like to say post positive God stories, right, all the little ways and large ways that God's working in our lives. So I think there's so many positive ways we can use it.
We also can use it within our families to... you know, we have in our family a group text. I try to send scriptures from time to time or prayer requests or just ways to connect in our daily lives. So I think it really starts with just really praying about how God wants us to use our technology. We pray about so many things, who we should marry, where we live. This is something that our technology is just with us all the time. And we need to really be in prayer about, how is this a tool to ultimately bring God glory?
Laura Dugger: [00:06:51] I love how you bring this up, because even this week I felt the Lord speaking to me about The Savvy Sauce podcast and revealing that this is partly how He's invited me to do my part in the great commission. That even now, as I'm getting to sit and be discipled by you, Sylvia, my prayer is that this podcast and all of our episodes can also be discipling others and going out to all the nations. So technology can have a profound impact for the kingdom.
And I know sometimes people grow tired of hearing the negatives, but they're potentially so dangerous that I think it bears repeating. So what would you say are some warnings that you want to share as it relates to technology?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Yes, absolutely. I think that listeners who are listening in today to really do some self-evaluation about, are they overusing or are they addicted to their technology. So just some of the warning signs are what happens if you can't find your phone? Do you get really anxious? Are you waking up during the night at all hours of the night to check your phone?
And this is a big one. Do you look at your phone when someone's talking to you? Almost like you can't stop it, you can't help yourself because you're not in control; your device is in control. And then another big one and I saw this again was a warning sign with my son was that he used to love to play the drums, he used to love to play soccer, and he didn't want to do those real-life things anymore because the things that he was doing in his virtual life were just way more stimulating. And we'll get into more of that, you know, the brain and what's happening there.
And then a big one is just ask your family. They'll tell you, right? Mom, you're on the phone too much. Dad, get off your devices. So those are some of the warning signs. And the one I'm the most concerned about, Laura, is just this incredible increase in anxiety and depression, especially with our younger generation. So those are just some of the things we have to look out for.
Laura Dugger: [00:08:59] And what do you believe are some of the antidotes that are available? If we are answering some of those questions and maybe we're convicted right now, what are some practical ways to offer hope?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Absolutely. One of the themes that I have with flourish in real life and relationships is to balance it. Technology's not going away. The children today in schools are absolutely immersed in technology. They have their tablets. Their work is all on screens for the most part. So how do we balance that out with real life?
One of the things I did with my son was to find things that he enjoyed. He found he loved golf. So what are those things in real life that you can enjoy that can pull you out of the virtual life so that the virtual life isn't so desirable? Even with friends, right? We spend a lot of time on social media because we desire and God's created us to have connections. So just trying to balance that out with what could I be doing right now in real life? Is there something that would be a better use of my time? Calling a friend, FaceTiming with a friend. Getting out in nature.
Another really important antidote is to just try to practice good emotional intelligence. You know, the reason we have so much anxiety and depression is because we're not processing our emotions. So instead of have a painful feeling, where's my phone, to just be able to sit with that and say, what is this emotion trying to tell me right now? How can I process it and work with it?
Laura Dugger: [00:10:30] And I just want to add a little bit more to that as well, because your book I originally read when I first became a parent. And then after we had our four daughters, I wanted to revisit it in a different phase. So a few things that I've gathered. You talked about the practical application of journaling and what an impact that has on us. And then you also talk about different ways that we can recover a healthy pleasure center.
Five of those ways to restore the pleasure center, I'll just name them briefly, and people will have to read the book to find out more. But it's live a connected life, aim for sovereign joy, receive God's peace, practice gratitude, and cultivate hope and resilience. So would you want to elaborate on any of those thoughts?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Oh, absolutely. It's just amazing how God has made our brains to help us to flourish. We see the damage that's been done in our brain system. And if we just really go with the things that God's given us, being able to journal, like you said, is huge. It takes so much of that anxiety and fear. The currency of Satan today is fear and anxiety. And being able to journal and pour our hearts out to God and take that time to put that down on paper is huge.
And being able to process those emotions so that I don't keep being distracted. Because that's what's really happening in our overuse of technology is our brains are being rewired for distraction. So being able to have that time to be still, to focus. If you're a parent out there today, that's one of the best things you could do for your children is just to get them to be still and to focus because, you know, the focused life is going to be the productive life. So, yes, I think all of those things to restore our tranquility system and our pleasure system are just huge.
Laura Dugger: [00:12:30] A follow-up question on that then. When you think of focus, would you consider that, like if they're doing an art project or something not even related to homework, if they're focused on play as they're younger, is that all intertwined?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Oh, yes, absolutely. And I think that there's going to be enough time where they do have to be on technology beyond screen time. But the brain just thrives, Laura, in free time and playtime, and honestly, in boredom. And that seems like such a strange thing to talk about in this day and age. But you know, I shared I was born and raised in South Africa, and I had no screens at all. I didn't see television till I was almost a teenager. So I was incredibly bored.
And my dad would talk about this all the time, and how bored he was as a child in the 30s. And our brains become so creative when we're bored. So having that playtime, that fun time, that time to even just have to make up games, right, for our children is so important. So when kids say to the parents, “I'm bored.” “Good. That's great. You're bored.”
[00:13:44] <Music>
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[00:15:40] <Music>
Laura Dugger: What have you learned about how technology rewires our brains?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: So the main part to that is our overuse of technology rewires our brains through distraction. And the distracted brain becomes the addicted brain. So it's been called digital cocaine because our technology gives us this hit of dopamine in our pleasure center.
So we're just overusing our pleasure centers. The basis to that we're developing what Dr. Caroline Leaf calls the milkshake brain, where all of the multitasking—and we don't have time for all that—but multitasking has been proven to be a myth. We don't multitask, we multisequence. But we're getting this milkshake brain, right? I'm here, I'm there, I'm everywhere. So this is impacting these parts of our brain, the pleasure system in our brain. We're overloading it.
And then our learning system in the brain. A lot of that comes from the lack of sleep because our overuse of screens robs us of our sleep. And what we've learned can't go into our hypothalamus, into our long-term memory. It's impacting our tranquility system. It's amazing how God has made us with this brain that we have our own natural tranquility system.
So now we're having to use so much medication without anxiety and depression. But if we're able to really harness this natural hormone system God's given us, so we don't want to call disrupt the tranquility system, you know, a lot of us wouldn't need to be even on the medication. And then we're seeing the overuse of a technology impact our spiritual system, you know, that ability to experience God in what we talked about in Chapter 10 of our book, our God Space, that place in our brain where we experience God.
Laura Dugger: [00:17:28] Well, let's go a little bit further with some of those into the solutions. So if technology is rewiring our brains and harming our pleasure center, what is a healthy solution to restore that?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Right. You know, it starts with really respecting your brain's limitations. I think as humans, we don't want to hear that, you know, that our brains are limited. We can't multitask. We can't be in two conversations at the same time. We need to teach our kids today, you know, listening to your children. And start with ourselves, you know, to single task.
And I try to do this, you know, when I'm like, "Okay, I want to do this, I want to do that." I really have to say, Stop, focus, you know, just do one thing, do that well, and then move on to the next. Because what happens if I'm doing one thing, and then I stopped to do something else, you know, the research says it takes us 10 minutes to refocus on what I started doing. So that is really huge. Just try the single-tasking.
Then a big piece is sleep. My dad used to talk about eight to nine hours of sleep a night. Our brain goes into recovery mode during our sleep time. And our brain needs a lot of sleep. And then it needs to balance out with screen-free time each day. I know it's gonna be different for each family what that looks like. But just even as you're listening today, think about where can I have time that I just am away from screens? Whether that's out in nature. You know, research is showing it's so healing time spent in nature. Where else can you have some screen-free time in your home?
Laura Dugger: [00:19:05] I'm assuming all of this impacts our tranquility system you were talking about as well. Are there any other tangible solutions that we can do to help aid this process of healing as well?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Right. The main part of our tranquility system is when we're, like I was saying, with the digital cocaine, it keeps our stress levels high because the cortisol is up because I'm waiting for that next text or I'm waiting for that next post. So our stress hormones are being disrupted and they're staying so high. So that's, again, why we're seeing stress leads to anxiety, anxiety leads us to depression.
So when we can do things too lower that stress hormone. And there's a lot of great ways to do that. There's an app out there called Calm. You know, what can you do to just, whether it's through breathing, whether it's through just putting the phone down, and like I said, getting out in nature to try and lower that stress? Because that is really one of the main reasons why our overuse of technology is so damaging to our brains and our bodies is that high level of stress.
So whether that's through breathing, whether it's through exercise, what can you do to be very aware of your stress hormones response? And tuning into your body? What is your body experiencing right now? How can you calm that?
Laura Dugger: [00:20:26] A lot of this is covered on pages 62 to 73 of your book, if somebody's following along or wants to research more. But one of my takeaways from that section was just how amazing it was that breaks and sleep and face-to-face connection were repeated in the repair systems, and just how powerful those are. And the one other amazing takeaway just how God designed us is that practicing spiritual disciplines actually heals our brain. So would you want to say anything else about healing the spiritual system of our brain?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Well, sure. You know, that was something as we were writing the book that, you know, you read all the bad news, right? And it was like, Well, what is the solution? What can help us? So it was really through Dr. Thompson's work, that neuro theology that he was talking about, how silence and solitude really helps to heal our brains.
So we really made this connection that if our overuse of technology is rewiring our brain for distraction, then it was really through the spiritual discipline of silence and solitude that our brains are able to heal. So that was a huge aha for us in reading that. So to just think about how are you balancing that each day. Are you getting time to be... you know, the Bible says in Psalm 46:10, "Be still and know that I'm God." He doesn't say, run around and do 10 things and you'll know I'm God.
Our brain, again, thrives in stillness and quiet. And if you look around your world today, we get so little of it. So the antidote really is right there for us. It's just going to take some self-management and some discipline right, to have that and to help your children to be still and not to always be entertained. My dad wrote the book, Thrilled to Death, and it was all about we're entertaining ourselves to death, where our children are being entertained to death. That really is our antidote.
Laura Dugger: [00:22:30] That is another profound book that made such an impact. I would highly recommend that one as well. But one more part that you talk about is the attachment system. I think of this, in general, is relationships, because attachment is such a large part. So could you explain attachment a little bit further, and then share how technology is impacting our relationships?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Absolutely. This is such an important piece for us to grasp. God, again, He's created us to be in relationship, to be attached to Him, to have attachments with others. So to have healthy attachments, with our spouse, with our children, with friends, we need to feel safe, we need to feel seen, and we need to feel heard. That's really what is at the core of attachment theory or having attachment.
So how our technology robs us of that is that when we're constantly looking down at screens, when we're constantly distracted with our phones, those that we love are not going to feel seen and heard, right? I like to say, your children and your loved ones, they need your eyeballs. And that's really what we're fighting for.
I heard one tech creator say, you know, what we really want is your eyeballs, right? They're fighting to make these devices addicted to get our eyeballs. So that's what our loved ones need. To be present to those people right in front of us, not to have... it's actually a term called absent presence. And that's when you're in the same room with someone but you're actually with somebody else on a screen.
I really believe it's the greatest gift that we can give those that we love, the gift of our presence. I know as a Nana to three little grandchildren, that's one gift that I've promised them, you know, to form those healthy attachments with them is that they have the gift of my presence. And I'm very aware when I'm with them to put my phone down and to turn the TV off and to really give them that.
I think that as far as our attachment to God, that's what He wants us to be is to be attached to Him. But we have many... what I call false attachments. Those give us pleasure, right? They can be online shopping, social media, just surfing websites that can feel like, you know, they give us some kind of pleasure. But they're really false attachments.
We need to really work on... we're created for union with the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, right? The union. God wants us to keep union with Him, and then to be attached to those that we love. And I've heard stories and this has happened to me too, so not judging here. But you know, stories of kids saying, "I kicked the ball for the very first time, I looked up in the stands, and my dad was looking down at his phone. He missed it." That is going to impact how kids feel seen and feel heard and feel valued.
Laura Dugger: [00:25:25] Wow, that is so powerful, and so memorable, that our loved ones need our eyeballs. It makes me think of Matthew 6:22 that says, the eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. So that is so good and memorable. Thank you. They need our eyeballs. And with attachment that really begins with the parent-child relationship, right, and sets that child on a different trajectory of how they are likely going to attach to others, including the Lord?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Oh, absolutely. You know, as I do work as a counselor and as a coach, as people come in, and sit with me, that is absolutely. If a parent was distant and aloof, that's how they see God. And when kids look at us, you know, we are the face of God to our children. And it's very sobering. And it's almost overwhelming.
I would say to my kids all the time, you know, I'm not perfect, I'm not going to reflect Jesus perfectly to you. But we need to really see that. The pleasure that we get from being on our devices sometimes is just... we need to be honest with ourselves, right? That it's overwhelming and it's a big hole.
But we have this little time, this little amount of time to be with our kids. Again, just getting back to that discipline of trying to get off the phone, trying to be there for them, because it will impact that child's life, how they see God, how they do relationships, whether they have an anxious attachment or an avoidant attachment, because there's different attachment styles. So that's just one little step you could take is just be there, be available, look in their eyes, and make them feel seen, and valued, and heard.
Laura Dugger: [00:27:13] I think that's such a balanced response. You're right, we cannot be perfect to our children, we will not be Jesus to them. And yet, there is a humbling reality and responsibility that we have. But I also love how you said, as a Nana, you're wanting to attach to your grandchildren. And it makes me think there are so many key players that also pour into our children to have that secure attachment.
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Definitely. You hear stories all the time of teachers, of Sunday school teachers and neighbors and grandparents who have a huge, huge impact. So I encourage anyone that's in my stage of life to grandparents to... you know, sometimes we're even more available. Maybe because we're older and we learned, hopefully, a few things, maybe a little bit wiser. But just to think about how you can help those in your life to form healthy attachments.
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[00:29:03] <Music>
Laura Dugger: Overall, what would you say is the most helpful piece in restoring and repairing our brains and our relationships?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: That's a really good question. I think for me, having some kind of a plan, you know, some steps to take. I do have a digital wellness plan that my dad and I came up with. And I think if I can share some of those just practical ways.
I think it starts by just first of all trying to limit your exposure. Again, technology's not going away. We've seen in the last year and a half where you've been immersed way more than we were before. But just to be selective. Be a discriminant user.
One of the things I did was I removed my newsfeed from my phone. And that's just been really freeing to not just feel constantly a slave to the ping and the ding of what's happening. So just think of ways that you can even just limit some of your exposure for your own life, with your children.
And then try to create some space where technology doesn't go. And that may just be in small ways. Like sacred space in the morning where no phones are. Maybe just even one of the things I did notice sounds so small, but the baby steps is just when I go to the bathroom. You know, don't take your phone with you. Just have a place where your phone doesn't have to go everywhere with you.
And then to face your feelings. To really ask, why am I spending so much time in technology? What are those painful feelings I'm trying to self-soothe or to medicate? And then keep a journal of those feelings as we talked about before. And then finding beauty to balance the brokenness. I just love that. You know, there's so much brokenness in even our world, in that we get thrown at us through the news feeds and through social media.
And what is that beauty? You know, whether that's listening to encouraging podcasts, like hopefully, you're doing today, beautiful music, getting out in nature. Really God has given us so much beauty to balance the brokenness that's out there.
And then one that I think is really, really important. That is to go deep in this shallow world. I loved Mr. Rogers, he said, in a world that's fast and shallow, we need slow and deep. I think that is really, so much the antidote, and the answer to all of this is, how do we go slow and how do we go deep in a world that is so fast and shallow?
Laura Dugger: [00:31:38] Oh, wow, that is good. And it ties in. I'm going to quote you from page 156, where you write, "Our digital life serves us best when it is balanced by its opposite, namely, our unplugged life." That just makes me think when we are unplugged, that often will lead to conversations and conversations make up relationships.
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Oh, absolutely. I like to call myself the conversation doctor, because that's really what we're trying to reclaim in all of this is conversations. Again, conversations with God, conversations with ourselves, conversations with others, and especially, with our loved ones. It's through conversations that we learn how to be a human being, and it's how we get to know God.
So I like to say that in your home, there should be places that are digital-free zones where conversation can flow freely. And that's your kitchen, your dining room, and your car. If you can make all those places digital-free so you can really have conversations. That's how children develop emotional intelligence. Right? It's through conversations.
"So, really, how was school today?" "Oh, well, Sammy was mean to me." "Oh, how did that make you feel? What do you think's going on with Sammy?" As we have those conversations, that's how our children are learning about life. My mother used to say, In dialogue, our thoughts are clarified. We can say what we're feeling, we can have that back and forth dialogue. So trying to reclaim conversation is a big piece of what I'm doing.
Again, another baby step for you as a family, just the dining room table and just say, we're gonna have a conversation. And I know how it goes. I don't want to talk. How are you doing? Fine. I'm fine, Mom. I'm fine. But that's really what our kids need, and what our loved ones need is conversations.
Laura Dugger: [00:33:34] Yes to that. Absolutely. Healthy boundaries can provide so much freedom in our lives in various areas. But when we specifically look at digital limits that eventually can lead to greater freedom, what are some of the most beneficial boundaries you recommend we establish for ourselves and for our children?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Sure. I'll just start through the age range. You know, for a toddler, they're saying too, this is the experts saying, to limit exposure to really no more than one hour a day of screen time, trying to make that educational programming. Sit with your child, interact with them, so they don't just zone out for an hour. To say, "Oh, what was happening with Daniel the tiger?" "He looks sad." "What do you think about that? Do you get sad?" So if you can have that interaction, it can just really be a lot more beneficial.
Then for children, they're saying no more than two hours of screen time. What I like to say is it's very hard to be legalistic about that. Set the timer and you know, how much was it? Was three minutes over or three minutes under. But to ask yourself this question: is there something my child should be doing that the screen time is preventing?
I really liked that. Because you know, maybe they should be napping, maybe they should be playing, having playtime with a friend. Maybe they should be outside. So that's really how we balance our real life and our virtual life is, is there something that this is preventing?
And then for teenagers, and I know this is controversial, but you know, to try not give a smartphone until the age of 13. That is what all the tech experts say, including Gates and Steve Jobs did not let their children have phones. So I figure if they created them, they must know something that we don't. Those are really good boundaries. Make sure you have your kids' passwords, that they sign a digital pledge, they know what's expected of them. No cell phones in the bedrooms. That's when most destructive behavior happens in middle of the night with texting, with kids sexting.
Have a charging station that's out, you know, where everyone can charge their phone, including parents. Because this is just not about digital wellness for kids, we need to be modeling this.
Then for us adults, try not to check your phone while you're getting ready for bed. Have about an hour of screen-free time to really get some good sleep. Don't check your phone first thing when you get up. I'd like to say let God get your first view, you know, talk to Him, get the Scripture before you get all the downloads from the day before.
And the most important part to all of this, I think as parents, as Christians, is just try to model digital wellness yourself saying more is caught than taught. If you have a good control, and you're modeling good digital habits, those will be caught.
Laura Dugger: [00:36:20] I want to go even deeper into the teenagers and technology because we've had some families reach out and just say, "This is a new place for us. We have given our children smartphones because we want to teach them while they're in our home how to steward this well. So do you have any recommendations for a balanced approach of wise ways that parents can parent their teens through this season of getting their smartphone and interacting with technology more?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Yes, absolutely. Well, Laura, you know, I spent four years working at a university and I would work with students on their digital wellness. So I want to say to parents of teenagers, yes, it's very wise to let them have access to their phones. I even say that their senior year, maybe even let them have their phone in the room. Because the point is they go off to college, and then suddenly, it's total freedom. So they need to sort of be released to know how to do that.
Most important thing is really to have conversations. I had a lot of college students say to me, "My parents didn't teach me how to use my digital devices." Well, I have many kids say that's how they got into internet pornography. "My parents didn't talk about sex, so I was curious. And I just started googling."
I had many kids tell me, young people tell me that they wanted to talk with their parents, but when they go into the rooms, their parents were all distracted on their devices. So they would just go back to the room and text with friends. So I think it's really important in those high school years that you're available. Again, the eyeball analogy: Be there when your child wants to talk, especially at nighttime. That's when kids' spirits seem to really be open. And that's when we're the most tired, and we don't want to talk. Be available to them to have those conversations and say, If you have any questions, if you come to me, there's no subject that's off limits. So you're available for them.
And then having the passwords and letting them know there is going to be some accountability. You know, what you do post or what you put out there, you know, you are going to have accountability, not in a mean way or strict way, but in a "I want to help you. And I want to help you to thrive when you do go off to college, and you do launch from this home".
So the relationship is everything. It's out of the strength of our attachment and our relationship that we create the rules and the boundaries. So really work on the relationship. Even after listening to this podcast, you know, say this is what I learned today, and I want to help you to not have a distracted brain. I want to help you to have some good boundaries with your digital use. I think that's really the answer.
Laura Dugger: [00:38:56] I think my takeaway when I have a quick thought, when interacting with our kids, I'm going to try and remember eyeballs in conversation, to prioritize those in the relationship. I want to quote you again on page 31, where you and your dad write, "Our findings confirmed our worst fear. Digital engagement seems to be breaking down their sense of unity as a family." So, Sylvia, how can we redeem what technology has stolen from our family?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Yes, getting back to the purpose of our technology, you know, technology was created to make our lives easier and more productive. That's really what it's about. It's funny how it ends up making our lives harder and less productive. But if we get back to the intended design and use of that and to think putting technology in its place in your home, where does it belong?
And again, it's going to be different for each family. I've talked with families who have very little screen very few screens and tech families and have a lot. So starting by just praying. What is our family mission statement? How are we going to use technology in this home? And how do we want to use it in a way that's redemptive.
So again, using it, to share family devotionals, to share scriptures, to encourage your kids to post positive things about their classmates. I had people tell me that college recruiters that they look to see who are the kids that are making positive comments about fellow students are way to go, you hit a home run, a great job. So just being a really positive force.
And then again, having as many face-to-face conversations as a family as you can, and breaking up that conversation deficit. You know, FaceTiming with relatives. I live with my grandchildren now at the same time, but I did it for a while, and I loved being able to FaceTime. So being able to connect them with other family members, maybe they don't get to see all the time.
And then really sitting down and praying as a family. How do you think God wants us to use this technology? And then coming up with your own family digital wellness plan. It is amazing when you let your kids take ownership of it. They may even be a little stricter than you thought, you know. But be ready that when they say, "Mom, you're on the phone too much," or "Dad, you're on your devices too much" to not be defensive, and "no, I'm not." But to be able to say, "You know, you're right, and we can do this together."
So the beauty of this is I think it can be very redemptive in bringing families closer together and coming together to come up with a digital wellness plan.
Laura Dugger: [00:41:32] And I'm wondering, Sylvia, if that's part of your story. So just to turn it a little bit more personal now, would you be open to sharing a little bit more of your family's journey through your son's struggle with video gaming addiction?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Oh, absolutely. It really started with sitting down with him and with my other two children as well, and just really sharing how much I loved him and how much I was his biggest fan, biggest supporter, and how I wanted to see her thrive in his real life. Then I started sharing education. So it wasn't just, you know, This is what I think or feel. This is what the research is telling us. And really stepping them through the reality of what... you know, I shared with him what was happening to his brain and he's very, very smart.
If you have children today that are addicted to video gaming, to realize that the high-risk is a very intelligent child who's a little more introverted. And that's who he was. So really sharing that, you know, that you are more introverted. And finding, you know, what are things you enjoy in real life? AAnd encouraging him in that and giving him opportunities to join the golf team, to find ways to connect with other people. So I actually taught him a lot of emotional intelligence, because my other two are very high in emotional intelligence. He's higher in IQ.
So really just sharing that and keeping it about the heart relationship of how much I love him, and I want to see him thrive. And entering his world. You know, I would sit and watch him play the game and say, "What is about this that you love?" And trying to understand rather than just "stop that. That's not good for you." You know, "Help me understand why do you enjoy this? And what is it that you can do in real life that would give you the same sense of mastery, and accomplishment?"
Laura Dugger: [00:43:31] Sylvia, where is your son now on his journey of recovery?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Oh, yes, yes, absolutely. He graduated from college. So that was a big plus. I mean, I would be honest in saying that I think it's still something that he's really drawn to. And I think like he says, to me, "Mom, our generation is just going to video games for the rest of our lives. That's what we do. You guys would watch TV, we videogame."
So I think it's going to still be an ongoing challenge for him. I wouldn't say the ending is, you know, he gave up into gaming, and everything's great. I think it's still a challenge for him. But I've seen a definite maturing, and an ability to balance it out with his real life.
I think that's important, too. It's not like AA where, well, you just don't ever touch alcohol again. With these types of addictions, it's difficult, because you're going to be in technology the rest of your life. You can't just, for most of us, throw it away. So it's definitely an ongoing challenge, I think, for him. But I would say the key piece was just the relationship of him knowing that I love him and I'm supporting him, encouraging him, and his awareness of what's going on. And the education he's received on the topic has really been helpful.
Laura Dugger: [00:44:47] Well, thank you. That's incredibly helpful to hear the reality and the picture of real-life struggle with this and maturing and managing it. And for others who are maybe in the midst of a struggle with a digital addiction, what's your vision maybe 10 years from now, for those who learn to master this area of their life compared to those who eventually will become mastered by it?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Well, I tell people all the time, if you master your technology instead of it mastering you, you really will be a cut above your peers. I would say that to the college students that I would teach. If you're able to master it and really have a focus brain single task, you're going to have better emotional intelligence, which is your self-awareness. If you're able to get off your phone and tune into what you're feeling and journal that, you're going to have better self-management, because our overuse of technology shuts down our prefrontal cortex, and that's the executive management part of our brain.
So you're going to be able to self-manage better. You're going to have a better relationship management. You'll have deeper relationships with God. You're going to be able to hear from God because you're still and you're quiet and you can hear from Him. Definitely, you know, the deeper relationship with your family and friends. And not only to talk to God, but really being a listener and being able to hear God's voice, it's just such an important part of our relationship with God.
And I think, for those who, unfortunately, are going to be mastered by it, I guess just we'll look at the opposite of that. That they're going to really struggle and not have good EQ. And resources is showing how important that emotional intelligence is now for success, people with high EQ make more money, they have more friends, they have a better quality of life.
Your relationships are not going to be as deep because it does take that attachment. They need your eyeballs. And if they don't have your eyeballs, you're not going to have those close attachments. And you're going to honestly just the addicted brain... your brain loves novelty. You're going to probably get into other addictions, as well. Because, you know, if you're going to become pleasure-seeker, or as my dad talked about becoming a hedonic, where you don't find pleasure in anything. So, you know, I hate to paint such a grim picture but this really is serious, and it's the truth.
Laura Dugger: [00:47:11] That is serious. And I do appreciate you even giving practical steps prior in this conversation of actionable ways that people can start working on their own healing journey. And as it relates to the future, where do you think technology is headed and what should be on our radar?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: I love talking about future things. It's important to think as Christians for us to be aware of what technology is being created. And I think in some ways, we're probably not as savvy in that topic as we should be. So technology's really moving from external to internal. So we've had our smartphones, now we have our watches we wear, and now Google's working on an implant to implant us with a chip.
So basically the goal is that at nighttime, we would be able to download everything directly into our brains. They also, of course, have Google Glass you've probably heard of, where you'll just wear the glasses, and then you know, projects the screen in front of you. So you can have the internet with you wherever you go.
We have what's called the singularity, with Ray Kurtzweil. Google is paying him millions and millions of dollars to create what's called singularity. If you're interested, you can Google it. But it's basically where we will merge humanity and technology. He says that it will be a future of unparalleled human-machine synthesis.
So, again, as Christians, we need to know about this. It's called transhumanism, where the goal is that they say humans are limited and we need to evolve. So our next level of evolving is to become part robot, part human. And the goal of transhumanism is really to live forever, which if we see where that's coming from, that God hasn't created us to live forever here on earth.
So I think it's important for us as Christians to know about that, to also be aware of what's being created in relationship robots. Many people want to be in relationship with a robot instead of a human. We see that even in Japan, the marriage rate is going away down. And a lot of that is because real life can't compete with a virtual life. So the more immersed we are in the virtual world, the less desirable the real world becomes to us.
And we see that we haven't really gotten to touch on that with internet pornography, that many people can't even have real-life sexual relationships because what they get through the digital images is so much greater than real life. So just to be aware of that as Christians, you know, what is happening out there and what honestly in the next 20 or 30 years our children are going to be facing.
Laura Dugger: [00:49:59] Wow, that is very sobering to hear. And even that last example of pornography, that maybe that intimacy or connection that they're actually longing for can never be met in that way, because God didn't design it that way. And it does sabotage the real-life relationship then. A few things then with this, what do you challenge us to do with this information? And how are you aware of all of these future trends?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Well, you know, I think the challenge to us as Christians starts with something my dad talked about all the time. And that is we need to respect our limitations. You know, the limitations of our bodies, our brains. We're not meant to live forever on this earth. We're created to be in a relationship with God, an intimate love relationship with God, with ourselves, that self-awareness with other human beings. It's demanding, it's messy. And that's why a lot of people say they want to be in relationship with robots, they don't make demands of them.
Real life is demanding, real relationships are messy. But this is what God uses to refine us really and to transform us into His image. So we need to protect those establishments, protect our God's space, that place in our brain where we experience God.
You know, scientists are telling us that our brains could be rewired to a place where we won't be able to even experience God. I think in Psalm 139:13, it says, "You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together and my mother's womb. Your workmanship is marvelous, how well I know it." So we need to protect this amazing workmanship, those delicate parts of our brain of our God's space, and to see what's happening with and fight that. You know, relationships with robots, whatever the world is saying, to know that God has us to be in real-life relationships, and to be in real life as much as possible.
Laura Dugger: [00:52:03] I think that's a great challenge to end on. One of the benefits of technology is that we can still learn more from you even after this chat, regardless of where we live in the world. So Sylvia, where can we find you online?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Sure. Well, I have the flourishwellbeinguniversity.com. You can go there, or you can email me at drsylvia@flourishwellbeinguniversity.com.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will provide those links in the show notes for today's episode. And you know we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. So as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Yes, I love that. Well, my savvy sauce relates to what I shared about protecting my God's space in my brain. And that is I take 10 to 15 minutes each day to practice silence and solitude with God. I just get in a quiet place and just be with Him. No agenda, just being open to Him, finding my centeredness and my peace in that place.
And then after the time's over, as I go through my day, any time crisis arise or anxiety comes to me or the storms of life, I just go back to that place, Laura, that place of stillness and quiet. And that really helps me to stay centered, to stay grounded in a very uncentered ungrounded world. So I hope that your listeners will consider that, to take some time to do that each day.
Laura Dugger: Yes, well, thank you for living out these principles that you've recommended to us today. You're just such a great role model for us to follow as we all seek to steward technology well, and ultimately glorify God in the process. So thank you for sharing all of that with us today. And thank you for being my guest.
Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd: Well, thank you, Laura, for having me. It was really a privilege.
Laura Dugger: [00:54:05] Ever since launching this podcast in 2018, our team has tried to release at least one episode every Monday morning. In addition, we also launched a secret bonus episode for paying patrons on the first of every month. But in 2022, we're changing things up a bit. We will continue to release the bonus episode for paying patrons. But on those weeks when it's the first of the month, that will be the only episode going live. Which means next week on Monday, there will not be a brand new episode available for the general public.
If you benefited from any messages on The Savvy Sauce, we would encourage you to support our work through joining Patreon. You can go to thesavvysauce.com, click on the "Patreon" tab, click "join Patreon here", and then follow the prompts so that you can have access to all these bonus episodes and downloadable scripture cards. We hope you join us there. Otherwise, we'll see you back here in two weeks.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
[00:56:53] If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Jan 17, 2022
Monday Jan 17, 2022
169. Unlocking Meaning and Purpose in Your Life and Overcoming Burnout with Dale Wilsher
"Pay close attention to yourself [concentrate on your personal development] and to your teaching; persevere in these things [hold to them], for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you." 1 Timothy 4:16 (AMP)
**Transcription Below**
Questions and Topics We Discuss:
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What are some questions we can ask ourselves to begin to uncover clues about our ideal career?
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What is a sample list of values and how can we connect those with our to-do list to see if we are spending our time doing what matters most?
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How does our personality impact the type of career that suits each of us best?
Dale Wilsher is an executive life and career coach, keynote speaker, award-winning author of What’s Your Mom Type? and creator of the digital course, Career Kickstart: 30 Days to Your Ideal Job. She specializes in helping her clients discover their truest work and lead their fullest life by deeply understanding their God-given design and individual mission. Once a SAHM mom to her four inspiring daughters, ages 18-25, she is now and empty-nester enjoying a great new season with her husband, Jeff, the man of her dreams. They make their home in Boulder, Colorado. You can find Dale at www.YourAuthenticPersonality.com.
Dale Wilsher's Previous Episodes on The Savvy Sauce:
Four Personality Types with Dale Wilsher
Patreon 19 Applying Personality Training to Parenting with Dale Wilsher
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Leman Property Management Company has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at LemanProperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
Dale Wilsher is my returning guest today, and she is a very motivating executive and career coach, speaker, and author. You're going to leave this conversation empowered and equipped to understand the deeper purpose of your own life and then actually live in a way that is congruent with your deepest values and the desires God has placed within you.
Here's our chat.
Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Dale.
Dale Wilsher: Thanks, Laura. It's so great to be with you today.
Laura Dugger: Well, I'm going to make sure that we link to your previous episodes in today's show notes. [00:01:17] But for now, will you just update us on who you are and what your life looks like in this current season?
Dale Wilsher: Yeah, thank you. My name is Dale Wilsher Rakes. Actually, Dale Wilsher is my maiden name, and that's what I've always used for my business, but I got married a couple of years ago, so that has been big for me.
I'm a life and career coach. I'm a speaker and an author. I have to say, getting married a couple of years ago was a huge thing for me. Jeff is the man of my dreams. I had been a single mom for seven years prior to getting married. I had full custody of all four of my daughters who were deeply hurting. It's very rare to get full custody. It was a very difficult season. There were several suicide attempts with my daughters, lots of interventions. It was challenging. So to come out of that time when we were all carrying such a heavy load. [00:02:17]
In 2016, I met Jeff, and we knew pretty quickly that this was probably going to be it, but we weren't ready to get married. I have a big crew. So we bought houses down the street from each other, and the realtor was like, "Oh my gosh, this is the best day of my life. I just sold two houses. You're kidding."
Jeff would push his little lawnmower down, and he mowed my grass, and he would do the same and help me shovel and all the things that I would have to be doing with all the other dads at my last house. So it was delightful.
Then when we got married a few years later, then we all moved down the street into Jeff's house. So for the last couple of years, we've been blending our houses and our hearts. I'm so grateful.
I was married for 23 years the first time, and it was difficult. Came with a lot of brokenness. To know that marriage can be like this, even when we fight, he gets so mad, because I'm like, this is awesome. [00:03:17] So just enjoying this.
For me, my verse has always been from Job, where it says at the very end that God blessed the latter half of Job's life more than the first. And me too. Everyone is doing really well.
My girls are now ages 18 to 25. The oldest is a chemical engineer in Mobile, Alabama, and my second is 23. She is a nurse who just got her dream job with Children's Hospital here in Denver on the oncology floor. All the rest of us live in Boulder. Savannah's the only one who's out of town.
Then I have two who are in college right now. One is a senior who's going to graduate with a degree in criminal justice, and then one who's a freshman who's looking to do social work. Knowing how much healing has had to happen, and how we really prioritize mental health, and how that's created a lot of resilience, and also a lot of purpose for my daughters. Seeing their majors and their mission in life really speak to some of the deeper hurts they have. [00:04:20] I'm so darn proud of those girls.
I just became an empty nester, which is crazy. I've never had this level of freedom. It feels like forever. I'm thoroughly enjoying having time now that they're all in a great place to enjoy my husband, but also my business. For the last 15 years, I've been a speaker, but mostly in the faith-based setting, and mostly to women.
Now, I speak mostly in the corporate and business world. I talk about meaningful productivity and meaningful engagement, really connecting your work to your why. Because I believe that if I can help them connect to their hearts, usually in an environment they're not thinking about their hearts, then that's my opportunity to help them also get closer to the Lord.
I also speak in the medical world, because burnout is caused by a lack of purpose. I help them double down and find their unique meaning in the work that they're doing. As an executive life and career coach, I work with a lot of ambitious Christian women, is what I say. [00:05:25] It's not always women. It's not always Christians. But people who have big dreams.
So I'll help a lot of women build authentic coaching businesses, or find their ideal jobs, and just live really full, abundant lives. There's a lot to that that I like to contribute in the form of boundaries, and getting rid of limiting beliefs, and all that kind of stuff.
I've also launched a couple of digital courses, and wrote a book. My life is very full, and I'm really grateful.
Laura Dugger: Yes. Oh, my goodness. That is the word that came to my mind as you were sharing, is you have such a full life. Thank you for being open-handed and authentically sharing a little glimpse of your story. I'm just assuming that there are many listening who maybe have walked through a similar path, or they can identify currently with parts of your story. I know that you're going to be a huge encouragement.
How has your personal career journey impacted the way that you're now helping other people turn their purpose into full potential? [00:06:28]
Dale Wilsher: Yeah. Thank you. I think it is important to tell our stories. And it always comes with a lot of humility. For me, that always feels like embarrassment, but God has done a lot. It's nice when you're a little further out in your story, because it's been several years now to see some of what He's doing. I think it's always the most challenging. I always applaud the women who are telling their stories while they're happening.
For 17 years, I was a stay-at-home mom. Before that, I was a microbiologist, and then I was in technical sales. I loved the work that I did. But when my children came along, I had always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. I came from a long line of them, so that was a dream for me.
I love growing people. I love helping them find the best of who they are and see themselves through a lens of God's eyes and just all kinds of teaching things. I'm a huge fan of that.
As it went on, and obviously with several of them, that is a longer period of time, but I was married to an alcoholic who had some other addictions and mental illness that we weren't really aware of at the time. [00:07:36] That knowledge was kind of progressive, which we were like, oh, okay.
I would just try to honor my vows, but also protect my children and still honor a position as father the best I could. I needed to sacrifice basically my potential, my vocational potential to build theirs. It was worth it. Wouldn't change a thing.
But it definitely made it harder for me when all of a sudden one day I found myself separated. I did not see it coming. Like I said, I've been married 23 years, and this happened on my 23rd wedding anniversary. I got married when I was 23, so it was very eerie what God was doing, but I knew he was in it. We had had a lot of counseling. I had been praying for years, had a lot of people speaking into my life.
If you've ever gone through that or know someone who has, sometimes God uses something He hates, divorce, to overcome something He hates more, sinful lifestyles and the way people are treated in unloving ways. [00:08:39]
So I walked through that door and found myself needing to get full-time employment. That was very different. I had been speaking for years at that point, but it was a hobby. I always say I spoke to mops groups and some faith-based groups and... you know, you make potpourri and Starbucks cards like that. You cannot pay your mortgage with that stuff. So it's lovely, but I needed to ramp it up big time.
I met with people and tried to figure things out, but I felt very unprepared for a life outside of motherhood. I was very confused as to who I was and what I was truly equipped to do. I felt like I had been trying to be everything to everyone for a very long time, which made it very confusing as to who I was supposed to be, what I actually was good at. Was I good at anything? What did I have to contribute?
So for me, starting to define myself and the ways that God had gifted me and what I had to offer, that is what I want to do for others. [00:09:45] I want them to have direction because they have definition, that we're all a slice of his image.
None of us are called to be Him. We're in a body for that. We all get to contribute different things. And I believe it's so important that we know what we're here to do so that we can steward that and offer it to the world.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that was such an unplanned season of transition. It makes me think of all these other people where work has shifted recently over the past few years. So, from your perspective as a professional life and career coach, what are some common transitional times that you've noticed people have been reevaluating their career choice?
Dale Wilsher: Great question. As I mentioned, a life crisis, something like divorce or widowhood. I've definitely had clients who have been in both of those situations. I do find that right off the bat it is very difficult to make those kinds of decisions. [00:10:44] But once you've had a little bit of time and have moved through it, sometimes you just need to get work. But then to thoughtfully go after what am I really here to do? What do I really want to be able to contribute? So life crisis, career reentry.
For moms, some dads, but I have worked primarily with moms, their kids are old enough to be in school, and so now they need to get back and start contributing financially. Or it could be you've got an empty nest. You know, where I am right now, what is going to fill my time, and what is intentional?
I see it with people retiring as well. I've worked with a lot of people in medicine with some very meaningful jobs, and their personal lives don't seem to have the same amount of meaning, and so it's very difficult for them to feel like they're going to do purposeful work after medicine. But they need to retire from one thing so that they can also prioritize other important things.
Then finally, just unhappiness. You know, we're seeing it now with the great resignation. A lot of people have been unhappy in their work, and now they're starting to really take action on that. [00:11:50] You know, whether they've been bored or maybe burned out.
I had a client, her name is Kate. She was in marketing, and she was very unhappy with her work. She was a great woman, and I don't think other people at her job knew it, but she knew it. You know, she said that she kind of stumbled into her marketing major, was good at it, someone recommended it, and then she got a couple of good jobs right out of college and, you know, always did well. But she's like, "I don't even love this. Like, why am I doing this?"
And then one of the physicians I worked with, you know, he had a 30-year career in medicine, and yet he did all of that, as he's reflected back, to get the approval of one of his parents. Then you start asking, like, "What's wrong with me that I don't love what I'm doing? Am I not grateful or whatever it is?" And it's not that. It's just that your meaning is no longer being able to be delivered through your role. There's a better role for you.
But unhappiness, we need to listen to that. [00:12:49] A lot of times as women, we will say, Ah, you know, I'm just being selfish or it's not spiritual if I like it. As if it's only God's will if it stinks for us, which is not true.
So really paying attention to things that do not feel good and reflecting on those. Is there something better that you could be doing? And let that speak a little bit. So don't be impulsive. Let that be something that might open up some conversations with God.
Laura Dugger: Wow. This is such worthwhile work because as I'm listening to you, I'm just reflecting back on the early years of marriage. And this was my husband's story. He was good at what he did, trained as an engineer, worked at IBM, and was getting positive feedback and raises and different things. But it wasn't aligning with the meaningful work that he desired.
There were a lot of hard times in that season, but he made the career pivot and now works with Chick-fil-A and we are blessed and benefited by it daily. [00:13:56] It's infiltrated so many areas of our lives.
So I just want to encourage people if that is a little question or there's a little fire being lit with desire for this change to pursue it. I think you're such a great one to lead us on this journey. So whether we're returning to the workforce or someone is a professional considering a pivot into a new industry, what are some questions that we can begin to ask ourselves to uncover clues about our ideal career?
Dale Wilsher: There are many. There are many different ways to go after this. Some of the things that I have people look for... and I go through this in the digital course that I've created about finding ideal work, so that you can kind of look at it from different perspectives.
But one I call just emotional insights. So there's one category of emotion, the powerful emotions that speaks to meaningful work. Some of those examples are when you feel important or you feel proud, confident, valuable. [00:15:00] There's 13 in total.
But if you go back and reflect on times that you felt that way, what was it that you were doing? And not necessarily just the role because a role is not why you do something. It's not the purpose behind it. It's just the "what". There's many ways to deliver your why. But you know, what was going on? Were you working with people? Were you teaching them? Were you collaborating? Were you designing or creating? What was going on when you felt that way?
I also have people take a look at what their hobbies are, what their abilities or their interests are. I usually give lists because it's sometimes easier just to choose from a bunch of stuff and come out of thin air with these ideas. But those speak to usually things you're good at. So what does that say?
One of the things that has been my hobby for years is hot yoga. I love it. It's very athletic. A lot of professional athletes do it. It speaks to kind of challenging and empowering and strengthening my body, which I chose to strengthen people's souls and their meaning and the work I do. [00:16:08] But it's still kind of got a similar “why” to it. So looking at that.
Also, you know, what podcast do you listen to? What do you read all the time? What are those things that really interest you? Start there. What are those categories? And then what school subjects did you excel in? Go back to that.
One of my best courses in college, I couldn't even believe it was a course was logic. And I was like, I cannot believe this is a subject. This is just intuitive. This is inherent. And people are like, No, actually it's not.
And part of logic is seeing patterns underneath what's there. And that speaks to my why. That's what I do. I help people see deeper meaning in things. And that was speaking even back then that I saw patterns. I just didn't have words for it. So pay attention to those kinds of things.
I had a young client who had been out of high school for a couple of years. His name was Ben. He really had no idea what he wanted to do. He was kind of caught up in the pandemic where everything canceled. [00:17:10] He just really wasn't sure what his thing was.
He always loved history. That was his favorite subject, the one that he excelled in in school. But when we went back through it, it had to do a lot with the teacher because Ben was very relational and needed to be in relational kinds of work. But also it was a lot about investigative thinking. The way that that teacher thought really kind of indicated that Ben liked to think as an investigator. And that's one of the personality types that we have in work is the investigative personality type. So that can speak to some of the major responsibilities or activities in work when you look at kind of what you love and how you were designed.
Laura Dugger: I love that. When I hear you talking about selecting your elective, it makes me reflect back to the time when I had to confirm with someone like, "Wait a minute, you mean I can get paid to help people with their relationships. That's incredible." Each of us, it probably does look very different. [00:18:11]
I like how you said, sometimes you put out a specific list for people to grab onto that. So what is a sample list of values and how can we connect those with our to-do list to see if what we're spending our time doing is what actually matters most to us?
Dale Wilsher: That's a great question. I am a huge fan of people understanding their values and really articulating what matters most to them. Values are intangibles. Like hiking is not a value. It's an activity. But what it gives you might be adventure or it could be peace or solitude. Those are the values.
Same thing with family. I used to have when my clients would do that, family would be always at the top and faith. Especially with me, I said, that's a group of people. What it gives you is the value. Do they give you connection? Do they give you warmth? Do they give you support?
So we're always looking a little bit underneath to understand the values because that's how you align with a truly authentic life. [00:19:18] They are the desires that God has put in your heart. So some examples are authenticity, growth, responsibility, courage. I mentioned some of those: support, peace.
I have a tool that I will… we can put in the show notes if you like, which is a life purpose chart that gives values that I see a lot based on personality type. It's not exact, but I usually find about 70% of a person's values align with their personality type. So it's just nice to have a little bit of a list so you can choose and what resonates the most.
In this talk that I give on meaningful productivity. I do an exercise where I help people discern if they're just reacting to urgency or if they're truly doing what's important. And those would be values-based activities.
I have them list their to do list in a column, just on the left-hand side. Just write down the things that are on your to-do list for today. Now you could also list it for your goals for the year or your goals for the month, whatever it might be. [00:20:17]
Then on the right-hand side, I have them list out at least three of their values, things that just matter to you. I used to give people a long list of values, but then I found it was shopping at Nordstrom like, well, I've never needed a pair of red shoes, but it looks great. So I'll take them anyway.
So I try not to give people too many choices. I actually would rather ask questions and listen for the values that are elicited. But there are lots of lists online.
Then list those out and then draw lines from your to-dos to the values that they honor. What often happens is that you're like, there's no value that this honors. You know, I had one mom tell me like, "I'm doing laundry. There's no value to that."
Actually, as we mined down and we talked about how it shows that she's loving her family or caring for people, or there was some spiritual significance and washing away, you know, yesterday's dirt. We talked about that. [00:21:19]
But there are some things that we're doing that are just shoulds. They're other people's values. They're not really things that are authentic or needed at the time. So really being clear on what you're doing, is it attached to something that is deeply meaningful to you? That's an important way to discern how you're doing with your time.
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Laura Dugger: Dale, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Holocaust survivor and psychiatrist who was named Viktor Frankl, but he once said that life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. I hear you focusing a lot on helping people with meaning and purpose. So with all of that in mind, how do you help people uncover their purpose in life?
Dale Wilsher: I love Viktor Frankl. In fact, I got COVID when COVID hit in like March, whatever, 20. My husband and I were down for two weeks solid. He worked at a medical clinic, got it from a provider. So we were pretty sick. We didn't go to the hospital.
But during that time, I don't know why I chose to read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. And it was fascinating, but it honestly... it was his story of living through a concentration camp and how difficult that was and how he felt like besides the sovereignty of getting through that, that the reason he was able to survive is he was able to find meaning in those dire circumstances. [00:24:41]
So I believe meaning is crucial. And a lot of it comes from the way we think about things. Then they've actually found that meaning comes from four things. It comes from people and our relationships. It comes from purpose, which I'll talk about that in just a second. It comes from positivity of really redeeming, which is what Viktor Frankl did, finding meaning in suffering and seeing the positive spin, the good in that, you know, Romans 8:28. And then participation. That's something bigger than you.
For those of us with faith, it's the transcendence and the awe that we have toward God. So all of that. So when I go back through, I work on all those things with people. But purpose specifically, I help them by... I usually go through a process that's threefold.
First, I really want them to understand their personality type. There are specific strengths and motivators and values that are usually aligned with each of those types. And I want them to understand who they truly are, not who they think they should be, that leads to personality mass, but who they really are. [00:25:44] And then again, to define those values. That's kind of how you deliver your why is through those values.
As I mentioned, authenticity and growth, and courage is a huge one, which has gotten me through some really difficult times. Before I went through kind of this epiphany when I was single and really not liking who I was. I was not liked by the people around me and I could only see my weaknesses.
I remember kind of thinking that I was going to have to be way different for God to really... for me to be more like Jesus. And it was in this moment that I was out shoveling the driveway with all the other dads that I was so grateful that I was gritty enough to do that and courageous and strong. I realized that my personality type that God had given me and all the values that went with that, that was a blessing, not a curse. That He had equipped me for the journey that I would be on.
I have to say, I don't know if we all would have survived literally had he not given me this personality. [00:26:50] So that is very purposeful. You have to see through a lens of positivity.
Then finally, when I do the ultimate kind of like "why" statement or purpose statement, I have a variety of methods. One is... many of y'all might know this. It's the five levels deep. Some people will call it seven levels deep, but you kind of define what you love.
Like if you love being a mom or you love doing a certain job, what do you love about it? And then you ask five times, why do you love that? And whatever the answer is, and why do you love that? And then why is that important? Why do you love that? And you basically get down to the bottom, which is the reason that you do what you do.
And when I did that activity for me, it's because I want everyone to steward every strength they've ever been given. I want them to live up to their highest potential. I want every opportunity that God has given more than we can ask or imagine to be realized by all of His people. So five levels deep is one great way. [00:27:50]
Another great way, which is super fun is to determine or kind of figure out what your favorite movie was as a child. I do this when I have a deeper time with clients. Because what story sticks to your heart? Because you watched a million stories or you read a million books.
You know, we've all seen a lot of things. There are actually 9 million minutes in our first 18 years. But the things that stuck, whether that's our memories or the movies and especially who your character is, that speaks to something that is deeply purposeful to you.
My movie was when I was 13. It was 1979. It's called Heaven Can Wait. And it was like, right, same year that Grease came out. But it was a big movie back then. It was all about this football player that died. They accidentally pulled him out of his body. He really didn't die. So now they have to put him back into his body and they don't have the right body so they have to go put him in some other ones.
So the people that I loved in that movie were able to see beyond the outside, beyond the body to who he was underneath. [00:28:54] They saw him for who he was. And that spoke to what I do. I see deeper meaning in people.
So when I had one client whose movie was Top Gun, and I kept thinking all about Maverick. She goes, "No, no Maverick's not my person. Goose is." And her “why” had a lot to do with that she was this incredible support person that aligned with these really powerful people, very much like Goose did for Maverick. And she helps them see what is really meaningful in life that, because sometimes ambition can blind us. So it's a fascinating thing.
I have one of my clients, her movie was Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. She remembers crying when she was like six years old because he couldn't play in any reindeer games. As we went through her why, her why is to see old things in a new way. She's actually an interior designer for historic properties. But she does that so that people and properties can shine very much like Rudolph's nose. [00:29:55]
So think about it. What was your movie and what was it saying? Who is your character? What were they all about? That has significant meaning.
Then the other part is kind of like, what's the world you want to live in? What's wrong with the world sometimes is the way we go after it. For me, it's a world where people don't tap their potential because they don't know they have it, or they didn't know it was available to them, whatever that might be. I want the opposite. That's a part of your why. So lots of stuff there, but lots of good stuff.
Laura Dugger: That is good stuff, Dale. It really sounds so worshipful when you present it, because I think you've said basically when we discover more about ourselves or the way that God created us, it does lead us to worship and stand in wonder of our creator. Again, this is just such worthy work.
What are some examples of our values and purpose than lining up with an ideal career?
Dale Wilsher: That's kind of where we take these ethereal concepts... and it's got to be practical. [00:30:57] That's part of what I don't like, just sitting in great ideas. I really want it to land and make it happen. One client who is a family practice doctor, her values were connection, encouragement, and comfort. And you could see how medicine was a good fit. Those wouldn't automatically say, "Oh, you should be in medicine." But it was a great fit.
Her “why” is to speak truth and bring light into darkness. So she has the freedom to do that because she doesn't work in a hospital. She works in a clinic where she has more freedom and she's able to speak into the whole person versus being a specialist. But she said that when people are hurting, they are more open to light. And that is an ideal environment for her to deliver her values and her why.
Another client, four children, needed to go back to work and was getting her degree as a paralegal. And her values were order and holiness, which really, you know, for a lot of that, it's like truth. [00:32:03] That there is a truth. And the law is very much about the truth. Compassion, support. These were all things that absolutely fit being a part of the legal system as a paralegal. There's no telling where she will go with that. I've seen it. I mentioned the client who did marketing. That was a bad fit for her in the position she was in, in that realm, because she really valued freedom and she valued communication and she valued health. And she wasn't able to do much with those values in her job.
So what we have been able to discern is that some type of teaching or training probably in health and nutrition. And now that it's looking at which of the ways that she could make that happen through a podcast, through joining an e-learning platform as one of their trainers, lots of different ways to make that happen.
Another client was going back into the workforce after a divorce and she was the social butterfly personality. So her values were connection and fun and freedom, kind of similar to Kate's. [00:33:08] So she kept thinking that she needed to go work in a bank and be a bank teller. And part of that was because her ex-spouse was more of the improver personality type that does value accuracy and doing things right.
She kept thinking she had to be like him and do work like that, that's who she was. Actually, she found that that was a horrible fit and she was miserable. She found a lot of joy and a lot of opportunities for promotion in retail. She actually ended up working with a container store and right away negotiating for design work and higher salary. And really it was a beautiful culmination of who she was and her passions coming to fruition.
Laura Dugger: Wow. That's really helpful to grab on to both those matches and the mismatches.
Have you checked out our library of articles available at TheSavvySauce.com? New posts are added multiple times a month related to parenting, intimacy and marriage, personal development, habits, and other topics connected to what we discuss here on The Savvy Sauce. [00:34:17] If you sign up to join our email list, you're also going to enjoy little extras delivered straight to your inbox.
Our hope is to encourage you to have your own practical chats for intentional living. So these freebies will include things like questions that you can ask on your next date night, safe resources to read to promote enjoyment in your intimacy and marriage, or questions to ask your kids to connect at a more relational level.
We hope you check out all the available reads at TheSavvySauce.com under the articles tab. Your previous episodes on The Savvy Sauce focused more around personality, which we're kind of alluding to, and that's another area of your expertise. So how does our personality impact the type of career that suits each of us best?
Dale Wilsher: It's an important part. You cannot neglect how you were designed when you were looking for how you were going to deliver your contribution. [00:35:14] Your personality is meant to give direction and to provide just an indication of where you can be more productive or you can be more satisfied, where you'll be more creative.
I talk about personality in a four-type system. That's what the book, What's Your Mom Type was built on. Goes way back to Hippocrates. But in those four types, there are specific environments that they thrive in and specific types of jobs.
Ben, who I mentioned earlier, he's a stabilizer. Stabilizers are more service-oriented kind of behind the scenes. They're actually the biggest portion of the population. They do best working on teams. I see them a lot in the nonprofit sector. I see them a lot prioritizing relationships, being very caring and nurturing like in therapy or in some kind of counseling area. I see it and a lot of educational systems. I see it with support specialists. I see it in medicine.
They do like established methods. [00:36:14] So they're great when they're in customer service or maybe even in banking, something that's already established. They don't do well starting their own businesses. They do well joining one, but that's not their ideal thing.
Same thing with, say, the opposite who's the doer. Now they are a smaller portion of the population and they need to do work where they're rewarded for their results. So they need something where what they do matters and it contributes to a bottom line. Something where they can be independent, overcome a lot of challenges, be fast.
My daughter, Caroline, this is her major type. I remember when she worked at Chick-fil-A as a 16-year-old and they tried her out in different positions and she killed it on a drive-through because she was so fast. And that's where it mattered. There are other places that you don't want somebody being that fast because then people feel run over. But when you are waiting for that fabulous chicken sandwich, you would like it to come out quickly.
And there's many books written on this. [00:37:15] You know what? I use Myers-Briggs. I use something called the Holland Code, which is really a job personality. I mentioned that the investigative is one of them. Some people are social, you need to be working with people or for people.
So just investigating all these different areas of who you are, it can really start to create some themes that you'll notice. And then you can start to make some decisions based on that.
Laura Dugger: And just to go a little bit further with those four personality types, we kind of covered two of them that were opposite. Could you also elaborate a little bit more on the other two that are opposite of one another?
Dale Wilsher: Yeah, you bet. So the improver, which is the more analytical detail-oriented, we could say precisionist, a lot of us in our negative we'll say perfectionist, you do well in environments that are more academic or even financial in a way that accuracy matters. You get rewarded for quality.
Also, I've seen this a lot with physicians and lawyers and other types of jobs that have a lot of schooling because it takes a lot of patience in that academic realm to allow someone to really thrive there. [00:38:27] So I see them at higher levels of education, not necessarily at the younger levels, but maybe more academic, college-level settings.
I see this in writers and editors. I see it in architecture. But something where critical thinking, it matters. So if your job was to just be in front of people. And certainly, you can speak. But you're going to speak in a more formalized way. So you think about is that the way to do it?
Usually something that allows you to do quality work. When my daughter, who's now at Children's, so pediatrics was perfect for her as the opposite of this type, but she was considering which specialty. And surgery for her was not ideal because that was very precise. The patients were asleep and she likes interacting with patients. So she's like, "Well, I would barely get to do that." And it was quiet. Again, it was all about getting it just right. She's like, "I don't love that." I said, "I agree." But if you're an improver and a nurse, that might be ideal. [00:39:27]
So then the opposite is that social butterfly. I call them the connector, because that's what they're here to do is connect with people. So anything with high people contact is a must. They need to be able to interact with others because they're inspiring and influential and very optimistic. So they need places where they're not just to tell us what could go wrong. There are the ones who get to bring the hope and the joy.
So environments where there's a lot of variety, they usually have a very high number of dopamine receptors. So variety feeds those. They love things that are fresh and new all the time, the ability to express themselves, to communicate. Those are all the kinds of environments.
I see that a lot in sales and marketing because they're very influential and persuasive. I see it in human relations or human resources, interior design. It's very creative. But again, you could be an improver and be an interior design. I believe Joanna Gaines from Fixer Upper is more of an improver because she's a little bit more deep and thoughtful. So her design and creativity comes out of that. [00:40:30]
So it's really just understanding what your great gifts are and what is probably common to that. And also what your weaknesses are. Usually, the opposite type will fill in your gaps. When I was in graduate school, which was a highly academic environment, I was getting my PhD in molecular biology, that is an improver environment, and I'm not an improver.
My parents were, and I was always trying to get their approval. But I kept thinking, like, What is wrong with me? That I am just not excelling here. What is going on? And while I liked all the science, I didn't like just thinking of the theory. I kept wanting to make it practical, which when I finally... I felt like that's one of the first moments I heard God speak to me, like, I need you to leave. And I thought, Oh my gosh, that's going to be embarrassing to all those people who got me into graduate school.
And so I did. I took a leave of absence and I got a job with a pharmaceutical company, which was much more practical where I could do the science. But that kind of shame, what's wrong with me, it may be that you're in the wrong environment for your personality. [00:41:31] So always know what you're really, really strengthened to do.
Laura Dugger: Wow. That's so good. I actually have thought of that question multiple times this week. Even in parenting, there are certain parts that I'll think, what is wrong with me? Why do I need so many outlets of adult interaction time? What is wrong with me? And I was realizing that's a little bit of a shaming question to myself. But I relate to that connector personality. It's helpful to connect that, that that is how God wired me, and then takes discernment to figure out how to fulfill my roles well and steward this well, and yet be wise in the way that I'm filled up so I can pour out.
Dale Wilsher: For sure. And aren't you in the perfect role as a podcaster? Communicating and inspiring and influencing people with your great gifts. By the way, since we're usually married to our opposites, usually we share values, but we have opposite personality types, the stuff that bugs us is usually not the stuff that bugs them. [00:42:35] So that's where we can start to think what's wrong with me. Like, this doesn't bother my husband or this doesn't bother my wife. It's like, it probably won't. But really understanding that, you know, usually the stuff that bothers us, it keeps us from delivering what is important to us.
So if you can't connect with others, that would be deeply hard. You know, that's not what you were designed to do. So I love that you're in this role. You're great at it.
Laura Dugger: Thank you, Dale. You're always such an encouragement. You know that we love practical application here. So what are a few homework assignments that you recommend and how can they help?
Dale Wilsher: I think if you're considering what is meaningful and what is your purpose and how might you be intentional with your time, the first thing you need to do is block some time. I'm a big fan of some time management tools that prioritize these things that will get eaten up by the urgent.
So a time blocking tool is just basically a grid with all the hours in the day and across the top is each day of the week where you literally say from 10 to 11 or from one to four, you know, because maybe you have a break or maybe whatever it might be, or even within your own job, you're able to kind of move some stuff out of the way. [00:43:53]
What time do you want to give that you can prioritize this kind of work? Because no one's usually sitting around waiting for you to figure it out. Not like they are waiting for dinner or waiting for their lunch to get made or whatever it is. So prioritize that. Use some time blocking.
Again, if you want to Google time-blocking tools, there's usually some great stuff out there. I like thinking big. That's when it's time to sit down and do some vision casting. A cool exercise is to write your eulogy. What would you want people to be able to say about you? Especially those meaningful relationships. What do you want to do before you quote-unquote, "retire"? You know, when you feel like at that point, you're not going to be given it all to whatever your area of service is.
What do you want? Who do you want to help? How do you want to help? "I want to help" is not a purpose statement, but how you want to deliver that. You know, ask some big questions. Do that five “why” exercise that I talked about where you just constantly ask, why do I like this? And why is that important? And why do I like that? [00:44:55] Just keep going down five or seven layers. It's fun to do it with someone else because you'll reveal more in a conversation than you would just writing things down. So find a great friend to do that with.
The other thing I think that's so important when you're considering this is to really notice who you're connected to. And I have people write out this list of your current 100 where you make a list of maybe it's your Christmas card list, but it's also your neighbors and their spouses and what jobs they have or who they work for.
You are connected to more people than you realize. And you are connected to some people who are probably doing some things that you might be interested in doing one day. And those connections, they call it the strength of weak ties. It's usually not your close-knit group. It's the layer or two out. They are the ones that are more likely to help you get a position than anyone else. So make a list of who you're connected to. [00:45:53]
Laura Dugger: Wow. You're amazing at vision casting and giving us this big-picture view. Now, what is one small step we can take in order to make progress and not lose the momentum that results from an inspiring conversation like this one?
Dale Wilsher: That is so important, Laura. I'm really glad that, you know, there you are landing the plane. Because we can talk about good stuff, but we won't ever achieve it. We won't tap that potential unless we do something.
I think choosing one thing. You know, is it that you want to know your “why”? Is it that you feel like you need to define your personality? You know, lots of people like lots of different tools. Whatever your tool is, make sure it's speaking to... make a list. What are your greatest strengths and who could benefit from those? Pick something that you really want to know.
Because I think the small step that will also keep this going is then get an accountability partner, get a coach, get a good friend who's also thinking about the same thing. [00:46:55] Tap into a study group, your Bible study group. Find some people who maybe want to read a book about purpose or personality and talk about what that speaks to and find people who can keep you in the game and also teach you about yourself.
They can share some things that they love and respect and admire about you that you're probably not seeing in yourself.
Laura Dugger: And Dale, you would be a fantastic coach for someone. I love that you're somebody who now they're getting to know, and maybe they can look into your website and find next steps there. So where can we find out more about you online?
Dale Wilsher: Thank you. My website is yourauthenticpersonality.com. You can also find me by DaleWilsher.com. That will send you right to Your Authentic Personality. And there are pages for my speaking, but for my coaching.
One thing that might really be particularly helpful is the career kickstart digital program that I have. We're going to launch it again, I believe February 7th. We'll launch it three times in 2022. [00:47:59] Registration begins January 25th and ends on February 2nd. The course begins on February 7th and it will go through March 25th.
So if you go to the page for career kickstart, it's a 30-day program, meaning you're going to get 30 days' worth of content, videos, and worksheets. And you'll also have opportunities to be in an accountability group and also have a couple of one-on-one sessions with me, if that's something that you're interested in. There's several levels.
But that really is for all the different populations that we talked about. Whether you're retiring, whether you're gearing up for a whole new career or your first career, or you're just wanting to see what else is out there, that is a great tool to do it. You can go at your own pace, but you can also get involved in a community that's doing the same thing.
So Your Authentic Personality, look around. There's lots of resources for moms. Certainly the book is a great resource. There's a course on the book. Certainly reach out. There's lots of places that you can contact me. If you have questions, I'd love to be able to talk to you. [00:49:04] Of course, I do individual coaching. If you're looking for something more customized or something that needs to be a little faster and you want some additional help, I'd love to be able to help you with that.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will link to all of that in the show notes of today's episode. You may remember that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Dale Wilsher: Yeah, that's such a great question. I think without having a good phrase right off the bat, I think self-help, which a lot of times in Christian circles is frowned upon. I believe in self-help and the way that we have to understand ourselves. But self-help is supposed to lead to others' help. The reason that we know ourselves is so we can really contribute the best of ourselves to others.
If you have something awesome in the bottom of your purse and you don't know it's there, it's never going to serve anyone. [00:50:03] So you need to be brave enough and humble enough to know who you are so that if it's time to take all of your strengths that are being used in a private sphere and move it into the public sphere, you will have the confidence to act. Because confidence is built on action. Rumination with all the overthinking keeps us from acting. But you cannot act and ruminate at the same time. So take some action. Get out there and learn and grow and tap your very full potential.
Laura Dugger: Always a great savvy sauce. It really reminds me... I just want to share one piece of scripture that I was camping out in this morning, and I think it relates to this talk and this charge that you've given to each of us. So it's from 1 Timothy 6:16 in the amplified version. And I'll just read it here. It says, "Pay close attention to yourself [concentrate on your personal development] and to your teaching; persevere in these things [hold to them], for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you." [00:51:13]
So, Dale, I want to encourage you. Thank you for taking that verse seriously and applying it and encouraging and motivating all of us to do the same. I always look so forward to our time together because your energy and positivity is contagious. And I always learn so many new concepts. So thank you for equipping each of us today. And I just want to say thank you for being my guest.
Dale Wilsher: Oh, thank you, Laura. And thank you for that verse. I thought I had kind of tapped into every verse that was on this topic. And honestly, I had never put that one together. It was powerful. Thank you. Thank you for reminding us where this all comes from.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.[00:52:13]
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [00:53:15]
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. [00:54:14]
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Jan 10, 2022
Monday Jan 10, 2022
168. Experiencing Joy, Connection, and Nourishment at the Table with Abby Turner
“Day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts” Acts 2:46 ESV
Abby Turner is a young professional who is single and loving life as a food blogger, speaker, and writer. Born into a large family, she grew up in Central Arkansas, where she learned the importance of community and Biblical hospitality at a young age. After completing undergraduate degrees at Ouachita Baptist University and obtaining her Master's from Baylor, Abby lived in 6 states in 5 years, learning that community is essential to a healthy relationship with Christ. Over the last few years, Abby has spoken at college/universities, churches, companies and has been featured on regional TV shows and podcasts. Abby's passion is to encourage women to stop wasting time waiting for the perfect family, house, or table and to start opening their homes, cooking for friends and building community. You can learn more about Abby and enjoy even more recipes by visiting her website at atabletopaffair.com or on social media @atabletopaffair.
Questions We Discuss:
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What has God taught you is the most important piece of furniture in our home?
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What lessons have you learned as it relates to the table that parties, serves, and welcomes?
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How do you creatively add generosity and elements of surprise to keep this process fun?
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday Jan 03, 2022
Monday Jan 03, 2022
167. Pursuing Health in Four Key Areas with Debra Fileta
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Romans 12:2 (NIV)
**Transcription Below**
Questions We Discuss:
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What are ways to pursue health holistically, including physically in our bodies, mentally in our thought life, emotionally in our feelings, and spiritually in our souls?
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What are a few of your tips to enhance our closest relationships?
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How would you describe the "why" for pursuing health in all these areas?
Debra K. Fileta is a Licensed Professional Counselor specializing in Relationship, Sex, Dating, and Marriage issues. She is a passionate author and national speaker who travels across the country spreading the message that healthy people make healthy relationships. Her work has been featured by numerous media outlets from national television to church ministries such as Saddleback Church, FreshLife Church, Focus on the Family, ChristianMingle.com, The 700 Club, NGEN Radio, KLOVE, and many more. She, her husband, and three children live in Lancaster, PA.
Debra is a regular contributor to publications such as Relevant Magazine and Crosswalk.com, with well over 250 articles across the web about love, marriage, dating, sex, and relationships. Her articles have also been featured in magazines and websites such as Today’s Christian Woman, Verily Magazine, Anne Voskamp blog, Proverbs 31 Woman, IAmSecond.com, ChurchLeaders.com, Converge Magazine, Charisma Magazine, Christianity Today, and many others.
She’s also the creator of the popular relationship advice blog, www.TrueLoveDates.com as well as the Love + Relationships Podcast reaching millions of people each year with topics of love, sex, marriage, relationships and emotional and mental health. Connect with her on Facebook or Instagram to get your dating questions answered and to learn more!
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Other Savvy Sauce Episode Mentioned: Brain Science and Spiritual Abundance with Ken Baugh
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Buick in Eureka. Owned and operated by the Bertschi Family, Sam Leman in Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over Central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at Lemangm.com.
I hope you can trust me, this is an episode you don't want to miss. Debra Fileta is a counselor, podcaster, and best-selling author, and she is my knowledgeable guest today. Consider this your one-stop shop for actionable steps to implement as you pursue a more fulfilling life.
Debra is going to teach us helpful lessons from a recent best-selling book of hers entitled, Are You Really Okay?
Here's our chat. [00:01:18]
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Debra.
Debra Fileta: Thank you so much for having me.
Laura Dugger: Well, will you just first start by telling us more about yourself and the work that you get to do?
Debra Fileta: Yeah, absolutely. I'm a homeschooling mom of four kids. That always surprises people. My youngest is eight months, and my oldest is 10. I'm also a licensed professional counselor, and I've written five books. I just love being able to teach the message that healthy people make healthy relationships. Sometimes we focus on the healthy people part, other times we focus on the healthy relationship part, but they really just go hand in hand.
Laura Dugger: I think one of your most quoted lines is that "just because we're a Christian does not mean that we're healthy."
Debra Fileta: Yes. Yeah, that is definitely something I say a lot. I think if you're the kind of person that resonates with that statement, then you're my kind of people. [00:02:22]
Laura Dugger: Well, can you elaborate? How do you view our health holistically as a four-legged chair?
Debra Fileta: When we look at health, I think a lot of times Christians tend to zoom in on spiritual health, all the while neglecting all the other components of health. But as a counselor, I know that health is not just focusing on spiritual health.
In fact, Scripture points us to the same thing. When Jesus' disciples asked Him, What's the greatest commandment? He said to them, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And when I look at that, I see a deliberate outline that Jesus gave us of what it looks like to love Him with our heart, which represents our emotional health; soul, our spiritual health; mind, our mental health; and strength, our physical health.
When I look at health, I'm not just looking at your spiritual health. I'm looking at all the other components: How you're doing mentally and emotionally and physically. [00:03:23] And oftentimes, those are the areas that really get neglected, specifically in the Big C Church.
Laura Dugger: That Scripture from Mark definitely requires us to holistically worship and come to God with every layer of our being. And I just love that you teach loving God and loving yourself are not mutually exclusive.
Debra Fileta: That passage goes on to say, "The next commandment is this: Love your neighbor as you love yourself." I think a lot of times we focus on the "love your neighbor" piece. But Jesus could have said love your neighbor more than yourself or love your neighbor, don't love yourself. But He actually just said it, love your neighbor as you love yourself. I think there's power there. When we love ourselves, we are loving who God created us to be, we are loving God's workmanship. And I think there's something really beautiful to the process of seeing ourselves as something valuable because of who we are in Christ. [00:04:29]
When we value ourselves, we begin to treat ourselves in a positive way. We don't neglect ourselves. We learn to fill ourselves up. And I think out of the overflow of a healthy person, we can then love the people that God has placed in our life even better than when we're not feeling full, when we're feeling empty.
Laura Dugger: Just going back to that four-legged chair analogy, I'd love to unpack each of these legs a little bit more fully. You've mentioned them, but I'd love to cover pursuing health holistically, which includes physically in our bodies, mentally in our thought life, emotionally in our feelings, and spiritually in our souls. So let's begin with this. How does pursuing physical health benefit us in all other areas as well?
Debra Fileta: Well, you know, science shows us that there is a body-mind connection that cannot be underestimated. [00:05:31] When we're fit physically, when we're focused on our health, it impacts the rest of our bodies, including our mind, including our brain. I mean, brain function is a huge part to the rest of the components of health, our emotional health, our mental health.
So things such as diet, exercise, sleep, even such as boundaries — I spend a whole chapter talking just about boundaries because I think boundaries really protect our physical health — they keep us from burnout.
There was a study where people who walked 20 minutes a day and they were diagnosed with clinical depression... they kind of put them in two different groups. They took a group that had clinical depression and they had them walk for 20 minutes and then a group with clinical depression and they just had them not walk for that period of time.
Fascinatingly enough, the people who were active and walking had a decrease in symptoms of depression. And that's because physical fitness and physical exercise releases these feel-good chemicals that we call serotonin and dopamine. [00:06:38] And those neurochemicals are what help us stabilize our mood, stabilize our thought life, our anxiety, our depression. So it just goes to show you the power of focusing on our physical health as part of the equation of being healthy people overall.
Laura Dugger: Wow. I love that you bring that one to mind, even the specific 20 minutes. I think it's crazy because this morning... I now go on a walk every day and have for about a year and a half. And I keep a list on my phone, I call them my anchors, but things that make it like an exceptionally great day. What are little repeatable habits or behaviors?
I've been doing this walk consistently, but I was thinking even on days when time is crunched in the morning or the kids have something extra in addition to school, just 20 minutes, I've noticed, is the time for me that makes it so much better. So thank you for sharing some of the reasons. [00:07:39]
Debra Fileta: There you go. You were following science and you didn't even know it.
Laura Dugger: I also want to just read a little glimpse of your book about another physical health benefit. So here's a quote from you. It says, "A lack of sleep or disruption of sleep can severely impact a person's emotional well-being and can be an early sign that something is going on underneath the surface. If you find yourself struggling more than usual emotionally, it's important to recognize that the lack of sleep hygiene could be a potential trigger. So often, sleep and emotional struggles go hand in hand, and dealing with one often brings stability to the other."
I just think, Debra, that we undervalue sleep's impact on our health. So can you elaborate on that quote of yours and teach us a little bit more?
Debra Fileta: Yeah. You know, sleep is really the reset for your body. It's the time when your body gets recharged. [00:08:39] When you're struggling with sleep, there's two things that are usually at play. Number one, a lack of sleep hygiene. When I talk about sleep hygiene, even my editor in the book was like, "Is that a real word?"
Like we hear about hygiene as in like showering and brushing your teeth and taking care of yourself, but there's actually a term called sleep hygiene. And that's about the rituals and rhythms and patterns that you have that help you sleep. You know, you can condition your body to get sleepy based on the things that you do before bedtime.
In Are You Really Okay?, I talk about things such as decreasing screen time or dimming the lights or having a certain ritual that you do before bed. All of these things signal your body, your parasympathetic system. That's the system that's in charge of calming you down, getting you relaxed, decreasing your heart rate, getting you ready to rest. It signals your parasympathetic system that it's time to rest. [00:09:41]
And so sometimes not having good sleep is simply a lack of sleep hygiene. Like you haven't prioritized sleep. But sometimes a lack of good sleep points to some emotional struggles that maybe you haven't addressed.
Have you ever had one of those nights where you can't sleep because you're just anxious about something? You're just thinking about this thing over and over again. Maybe it's something you have to do the next day, something you're anticipating. It's one thing when that happens, you know, one night, maybe there's a big thing coming up the next day. But if you begin to see that as a pattern in your life where you can't seem to shut down, oftentimes that indicates there's something going on underneath the surface emotionally. Maybe some anxiety, maybe some depression, maybe something that you haven't addressed.
So sleep can really be our signal to how we're doing emotionally. And I think it's important to be in tune to how we're sleeping.
Laura Dugger: We're just giving little tastes of each of these because the book goes into so much more detail. [00:10:43] But if we move to the leg of the chair, that's the mental part with our cognitive functioning or our thoughts. Can you elaborate on how thoughts impact other areas of our health and our life?
Debra Fileta: Yeah. Scientists used to believe that when you felt bad, you started having negative thoughts. So maybe you woke up feeling depressed, and then you started having depressive thoughts, and it kind of just spiraled.
But the most recent research shows us that it starts with a thought. Thoughts lead to feelings, which then lead to our behaviors. So maybe you have an underlying thought, feeling like you're not good enough. "Oh, I'm never going to get this done. I'm just not good enough for this." Well, all of a sudden, then that thought leads to feelings. Feelings of frustration, feelings of disappointment, feelings of insecurity. And then you act out of those feelings, your behaviors that you do. [00:11:44]
Maybe you interact with somebody, and you're feeling insecure, and you don't speak up like you should. All of that stems from your underlying thoughts.
So a huge part of mental health is taking inventory of the health of your thought life and getting to the root of where some of those negative thoughts come from. In Are You Really Okay? I list out what I call these negative filters. They're called cognitive distortions. And they're unhealthy ways of thinking that many of us kind of pick up throughout life without even realizing that we're doing it.
So when I talk about mental health, I kind of want to divide it into two components. One of them is our thought life, but the other component is our experiences. And for many people, they've been through hard things like trauma. Trauma begins to write over your healthy thinking with unhealthy thoughts. For many people, they've been through something in the past, and they think, "Well, it's in the past. The past is in the past. Let's just move forward." [00:12:44]
But they don't realize that when you don't deal with those things from the past, they can begin impacting how you act and think and feel in the present. And all of that lumped together is really what I would call our mental health.
Laura Dugger: I love how you explain this because all of these areas overlap. And so spiritually speaking, when we look at the Bible, and it talks about renewing our mind, and it gives so much time devoted to our thought life and what to do with our thoughts. It reminds me of a previous guest, Ken Baugh, and how he was elaborating that we can't really control our emotions. But with our free will that God gives us, He gives us tools to renew our mind, like you're saying, starting with our thoughts. And so this is very biblically based. And I love the science mixed in as well.
Debra Fileta: It is. It is. In counseling, we call it the process of training your thoughts. It's a big, important piece of therapy. We call it cognitive behavioral therapy. [00:13:48] When you come see me in my office, I'm going to help you rewire your thoughts, retrain how you think, get to the root of it. But really, when we look at Romans 12, God calls us to renew our minds and transform our thinking. God thought of this long ago. We're just now catching up. We're just now learning. "Oh, wait, this really does work. This really does impact our mental health and then our spiritual health, our emotional health." They're all kind of linked. Like you said, it's kind of four legs to a chair. It's this holistic process of healing. When you pass through one, it leads you to the next.
So what I really want people to understand though, is that these things don't just happen with time. They happen with intentionality. You're not just going to become emotionally and mentally healthy just because you've become a Christian. You have to work at these things.
When we come to Jesus, all of a sudden our blood pressure isn't exactly right, our cholesterol levels don't just bounce back to exactly what they need to be. Like we don't magically become physically fit when we come to Jesus, and we wouldn't even expect that. [00:15:01] But many of us in the faith, many of us who are walking with Jesus, make the assumption that all of a sudden those things in our past are gone.
All of a sudden those negative ways of thinking are gone. But that's not how it works. The process of sanctification means that Jesus is helping us heal all of these areas one step at a time. So it really requires us to be intentional as we're looking at all these components of health.
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Laura Dugger: When it comes to getting healthier mentally with our thought life, one practical application is called cognitive restructuring. [00:17:04] But just to demystify this part of therapy, will you explain what this is and how it can help?
Debra Fileta: Yeah. Cognitive restructuring is really identifying the old negative patterns of thinking and then replacing them with new ones. The thing about your thoughts is they are always going to do what's easiest. So if you've had a pattern of negative thinking your whole life, guess what, that's going to be the easiest thought process for you. It's going to require some work and some intent to identify that negative thought and say, "Wait a second, that happened so automatically. I'm just so used to thinking that way, but now I recognize it and I'm going to replace it with the truth. I'm not going to allow myself to think that negative thought about myself because it's not the truth. Here's the truth. Here's what God says. Here is the truth of who I am in Christ." [00:18:01]
And we begin to replace those old familiar thoughts with new healthy thoughts. And that takes some work but we call that cognitive restructuring. And really what it means is learning to renew our mind. But we can't do that until we start to recognize the old patterns, the familiar patterns.
Have you ever gotten into the car? I do this all the time. I have young kids. They have their kid's music playing all the time in the background. And sometimes I go somewhere by myself and I turn on the car and all of a sudden their kid's music is playing, but I don't even notice it because I'm so used to hearing it that it's just kind of like the norm.
So I drive for an hour or two... I'm running errands. I'm going to Target, I'm going to the grocery store and an hour or two later, I'm like, wait a second. Why am I listening to kids' songs? I could be listening to anything I want. That's just kind of an example of how our thought process works.
Sometimes we're so used to the old ways of thinking that we don't even recognize them. [00:19:03] So it takes us to stop and take the time and energy and effort and sometimes help of a professional counselor to begin recognizing those unhealthy thoughts so that we can begin replacing them with truth.
Laura Dugger: Sometimes this is best seen in examples. So just to personalize this a little bit, could you give us an abbreviated account of your trip to Egypt, both with the dark side and the light side for contrasting how this cognitive restructuring can play out?
Debra Fileta: Yeah, I always talk about how we have a tendency to kind of see life either in a negative lens or a positive lens, even when they're both true. The question is, which side do I focus on more? In November of 2019, we took our kids to this big family trip to Egypt. It was this 12 hours on the plane.
In Are You Really Okay? I kind of summarized that trip in two lenses. The first lens I'm focusing on the negative. [00:20:05] One of my sons gets motion sick and here we are on a 12-hour plane ride with him. Not only that, but you get to Egypt and it's dusty and dirty and you can only eat certain foods so that you don't get sick. The traffic is crazy. My 5-year-old almost got hit by a car at one point because there's just no rhyme or reason to the traffic. It's so hot and dusty and humid.
You can see your trip through the lens of the negative. And all of those things that I just said are true. But you can also see it through the lens of the positive. The positive was my son who gets motion-sick was able to take some medication and got through the whole flight and did really well. We got there, it's a brand new world with new experiences, new foods. The sun is shining all the time. It never rains.
So for the kids to experience the culture, get to see the pyramids, go to the museums, ride a camel, all of these different things that we got to experience as a family, it was just a trip of a lifetime. [00:21:13] We had so much fun.
Both of those stories are 100% truth. But the question is, which side do I tend to focus on? And for each of us, our lives have the dark side and the bright side. And each of the sides are 100% truth. But we have the power to decide which side we want to focus on and which side we want to live out of. And part of training our mind and our thoughts is learning to live out of the truth of who we are.
Laura Dugger: Goodness, Debra, that is so powerful. Thank you for sharing that. When we move to that third leg now, you teach that ignoring our emotions doesn't make us spiritual, it actually makes us unhealthy. So can you give a few examples from scripture of emotionally healthy role models?
Debra Fileta: Yeah. When we talk about emotional health, I think we have to realize that emotions are not just a gender thing. [00:22:12] I think sometimes we assume that women are more emotional than men. But the truth is, when we look at scripture, we get the exact opposite. We see that men and women are just as emotional.
In fact, two men in scripture who were very in tune to how they felt were Jesus, number one. I did a deep dive study into Jesus in the section of emotional health and specifically the emotions of Jesus. Biblical scholars have identified over 39 different emotions that Jesus experienced and expressed just through scripture. And we know that there's more than that because according to scripture, if all the things about Jesus' life were written down, it wouldn't fit into all the books in the world. So we know there's so much more to Him than we can even see.
But one thing that we definitely see is his emotional awareness. He was compassionate. He was sad. He cried. He grieved. He was in agony in the Garden of Gethsemane. [00:23:12] If you think, well, Jesus was emotional and He handles his emotions well because He's God, well, let me just point you to another man, David, a man after God's own heart. The Psalms are full of the emotions that David experienced.
Each and every one of us has underlying emotions. Maybe you haven't learned to express them or identify them. Maybe you come from a family where you didn't really talk about emotions and you kind of stuffed them. But one thing is going to happen. When we don't deal with our emotions in a healthy way, they will find the point of least resistance because emotions are kind of like a volcano. There's all of this pressure building underneath the surface.
And just like a volcano, when the pressure gets too much, when it gets too high, it will find the point of least resistance and come up through an emotional explosion. Sometimes that explosion looks like anger issues, anxiety, depression, addictions, maybe relationship issues. [00:24:15] You know, maybe we have conflict with our spouse or tension or issues that come up in our life.
But I think the underlying issue is, have I identified what's going on underneath the surface? Have I dealt with it in a healthy way? Or do I just continue to ignore it, to stuff it, and to think that is the way that God wants me to handle my emotions? But again, when we look at scripture, Jesus offers us a beautiful model of what it looks like to handle our emotions in a healthy way.
Laura Dugger: You also recommend getting a journal. How would that tie into pouring into our own emotional well-being?
Debra Fileta: Well, emotionally healthy people do three things. Number one, they can identify their emotions. They can name them. You know, like, this is what I'm actually feeling. It's not just I feel good or I don't feel good. But what am I actually feeling? I'm feeling frustrated. I'm feeling embarrassed. I'm feeling insecure. [00:25:16] I'm feeling hurt. I'm feeling overwhelmed. Identify those things that are going on underneath the surface.
Number two, emotionally healthy people express their emotions. I give you an entire journaling activity. Actually, Are You Really Okay?, as you've probably noticed, Laura, is not just one of those books you read. It's one of those books you work through because at the end of each chapter, there are journaling prompts, activities, homework assignments to help you check in on your health in each of these areas.
And in emotional health, one of the things I have you do is keep an emotional journal. We call it expressive journaling. But really the point is to get your emotions out on paper. Get them in front of you. Begin to express them. Because just expressing them begins to help them lose their power, help take away some of that underlying pressure.
So healthy people express their emotions. And then lastly, healthy people question their emotions because though our feelings are all real, we always feel real feelings, but that doesn't mean they're always true. [00:26:24] You might feel insecure and not good enough, but that doesn't mean it's the truth. Learning to question our feelings and align them to God's truth is a really important part of being emotionally healthy people as well.
Laura Dugger: You also write, emotional health and wellbeing are often influenced by our closest relationships. It's important to remember that and ask yourself how your closest relationships and interactions have influenced you. So, Debra, do you have a couple of practical tips for all of us to enhance our closest relationships?
Debra Fileta: I think it's really important to first take inventory of the relationships that we have in our life, especially the people who are closest to us. Look at the five people that are closest to you in your life and think about the type of engagements you have with them. Are you able to express your emotions freely and share what you're really feeling and experiencing? [00:27:24] Or is it a relationship where you kind of feel like you have to hide some of those things and not really be authentic?
Because the type of relationships you're engaging in currently, in the present are shaping you. Not only that, but the relationships you've experienced in the past have shaped you. When you look at your emotional health and your journey toward health, so much of who you are today has to do with where you've come from.
So many of the problems you face in the present are oftentimes rooted in the pain, wounds, experiences you've had in your past. And a lot of times that's our family of origin, the people who've raised us, how they taught us to handle our emotions or to express our feelings or to deal with the things that we're going through.
So I think first and foremost, it's really important to kind of take inventory of the people in your life today and ask yourself, are they helping me become healthier or are they holding me back? As we kind of begin to process those next steps in our relationships. [00:28:26]
Laura Dugger: I think that's such a great reminder just to be deliberate about who we're surrounding ourselves with because it does impact a lot of areas of our life.
Thanks to our friend Joy, thesavvysauce.com has been completely updated. And if you follow The Savvy Sauce on social media, you're already aware that we launched a new tab on January 1st titled "Articles". I hope you check out these new Savvy Snacks, which are articles full of quick tips for intentional living. Check out these articles today or join our email list to have them directly delivered to your inbox. Enjoy.
As that final part of the chair, the spiritual leg. Spiritually, let's just look again at Jesus as our model. How did you see Jesus setting limits and boundaries that filled up his soul in order for him to then be able to pour it out on others?
Debra Fileta: You know, Jesus is such a good example of taking care of His soul. [00:29:28] He took the time to say no. He set boundaries. Sometimes He said, It's not the time, you know, right now is not the time. Sometimes He went to rest. I love the story of Jesus going after a long day of ministry, getting on the boat with His disciples, and going and falling asleep on the boat because He just knew his body needed to rest.
We see Jesus eating. We see Jesus making the time to get away and be with the Father, to pray, to fill up. He really took care and nurtured His soul. I look at that and I think, you know, sometimes Christians think the word self-care is a selfish, bad word. But what it really means is taking the time to allow God to fill us up in order that we can then overflow that fullness into the lives of the people around us.
I think there's a really important thing to be said of being full people who are overflowing into the lives of others rather than empty people, because empty people cannot love and serve in the way that God calls us to love and serve.[00:30:39]
So if we really want to be effective with our families, with our ministry, with the things God has called us to, a big part of that starts by making sure that we are feeling full and setting boundaries to keep us in a healthy place.
Laura Dugger: Your book, like you mentioned, it's so interactive. And I really appreciated your questions. And one of them that you challenge us to ask ourselves is do we go to the Father to get filled? And if you can hang with me here for just a second, in my quiet time today with the Lord, this old truth somehow made more sense to me today. I think it's in John, is it John 15, where it's talking about abiding with Him. And then John 1, where it says, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.
And so when you tie that into abiding, one way to abide and fill our souls and come to the Father is simply by reading scripture with Him. [00:31:42] And for some reason, that was just very profound to me today. So I wanted to share that.
Debra Fileta: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's so much to be said in those spiritual disciplines of reading God's word, spending time in prayer, and memorizing scripture. But I also think we have to start a couple steps before that in the "why". Why do I do what I do? Why am I reading scripture? Why am I praying?
Because if we're doing it with wrong motives because we're afraid of God or we feel like if we don't do it, He's not going to love us or we've got to fill some sort of spiritual checklist, then maybe we're doing those things, but we're not actually using them to fill us up. I think the key is getting to the why. Do I really do this because I want to spend time with Him? Do I want Him to fill me up? I want to increase and enhance my relationship with Him. I see Him as someone who is good and who is for me. [00:32:42]
I talk about in the spiritual health chapter. Sometimes our view of God is actually tainted by the hurts we've had from the people who've represented Him in the past. Sometimes we see Him through the lens of people instead of seeing Him through the lens of Jesus and his word. When we change our beliefs about God and see Him for who He is, it makes the process of going to Him and spending time with him and praying so much more meaningful because it comes out of a place of positive connection with Him rather than a place of fear or shame or worry. I think it really fills us up all the more when we come to Him and our why is in the right place.
Laura Dugger: That is such great clarification to go one step deeper and ask why. As we even tie all of this conversation together, how would you describe the why for pursuing health in all of these areas? [00:33:49]
Debra Fileta: You know, Jesus calls us to live life abundantly. And I think at the end of the day, when we're healthy people, not only can we live our life more abundantly, but then we can more abundantly and with more intent and power and purpose pour into the people that God has placed in our lives. We can be more effective when we are healthy.
Healthy people make healthy relationships. And when we begin to get healthy standing alone, it starts to impact every other relationship and ministry, our family, our marriage, our children. And we can just live out the calling that God has put on our life in such a much more effective way.
Laura Dugger: Wow. I could not agree more. But now just for fun and to make this a little bit more personal, how do you actually juggle homeschooling and working and pursuing your own health in all four of these areas? [00:34:54]
Debra Fileta: Well, let me start by saying this. First and foremost, God's grace. I think God takes the little loaves and fish that I have and he multiplies it. I feel like he helps me accomplish so much more in an hour than I normally would be able to without his help.
But secondly, I've really learned... and my husband and I are both on the same page. We call ourselves no people because one of our favorite words is no. Maybe that doesn't sound very Christian, but let me tell you this: we've learned that we can only do a few things well. And so we focus on just the few things that God has called us to and say no to everything else.
So there's a lot of other ministry opportunities or kids activities that they could be involved in or our activities that we could be involved in or even some of our hobbies. But in certain seasons, we have to say no to so many things just so that we can kind of streamline and be efficient and focus on the few things that God has called us to do and do those things really well. [00:36:02]
When you look at my life and I think I talk about this in one of the chapters, all the different things that I say no to in order to be able to say yes to the few things that God has called me to. I think being able to say no, you realize that for people who struggle to say no and say yes to everything, they end up feeling like they're spread too thin. They end up feeling burnt out. They end up accidentally and unintentionally saying no to the things that matter.
Like maybe you say yes to that extra meeting, but you're saying no to having dinner with your family that night. Maybe you say yes to that early morning interview, but you're saying no to quiet time with the Lord that morning. So for every “yes” you say, there's a “no” built-in, but it's unintentional. It's passive. It's passive. And learning to kind of take ownership of that and set boundaries around your life is one of the things that has really been life-changing for me.
Laura Dugger: And I think that's a way that you're living out. [00:37:01] I'm just going to paraphrase that there's the scripture from the Old Testament that says, do not turn aside to the left or to the right, but walk in all the ways that the Lord has called you to. That sounds like exactly what you're doing and we're benefiting from all of your work and your wise yeses and no's. So if people want to learn more, Debra, where can they find and follow you online?
Debra Fileta: My favorite place is Instagram right now. So you can find me at Debra Fileta. I'm also on Facebook. And my website is a relationship advice blog for every age and stage, from singleness to dating to marriage. It's called truelovedates.com and you can find more information about me, my books, my resources, and counseling practice there as well.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. We will link to all of that in this episode's show notes. We are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so as my final question for you today, Debra, what is your savvy sauce? [00:38:08]
Debra Fileta: I'm going to go back to a phrase you heard me say earlier. Healthy people make healthy relationships. For me, it's really, especially in this season, 2021, I say is the year of healing. You know, 2020 might have been the year of exposing all the things, but 2020 is the year of healing. For me, I continue to look in. I continue to work on my own personal journey of anxiety or depression or identity and seek to get healthy, as healthy as I can standing alone, knowing that when I work on myself, it's not in vain and that it will impact every other relationship in my life, including how I relate to my husband, including how I relate to my kids, including how I do ministry. So it's the best place to start because it's the one where I actually have some semblance of control over myself.
Laura Dugger: Well, Debra, I admire your gentleness and authenticity and just the way that you daily live out the recommendations you suggest to others. [00:39:13] You are clearly a woman of integrity and you really have benefited all of us by sharing this knowledge today. So thank you very much for being my guest.
Debra Fileta: Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. [00:40:15] That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. [00:41:15]
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. [00:42:15]
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
Monday Dec 13, 2021
Monday Dec 13, 2021
166. Journey from Empty to Well Nourished Soul with Gretchen Saffles
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. John 15:4
Gretchen Saffles is passionate about encouraging and equipping women to drink deeply from the well of God’s Word and to find their identity and purpose in Christ. She is the founder of Well-Watered Women, an online ministry that reaches women worldwide with the hope of the gospel, and the author of The Well-Watered Woman: Rooted in Truth, Growing in Grace, Flourishing in Faith. She has written several Bible studies including Redefined: Defining Identity through the Mirror of God’s Word and Esther: The Fingerprints of God. She is also the creator of the Give Me Jesus quiet-time journal for women, a tool to help women study Scripture daily. On any given day you can find her with a cup of coffee in hand, her boys by her side, a message stirring in her soul, and a God-sized dream on her heart. Gretchen lives in Atlanta, Georgia, with her husband, Greg, and her two sons, Nolan and Haddon.
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Will you share more about the pit that led you to a transformative encounter with Jesus in college?
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How did God begin to pour out His grace on you and even allow you to begin sharing your story in what felt like the midst of living your story?
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Which relationships have impacted your walk with the Lord that you also wrote about in your book?
Other Savvy Sauce Episode Mentioned: Fruitful
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Well-Watered Women Website and Instagram
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Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday Dec 06, 2021
Monday Dec 06, 2021
*This episode contains adult themes and is not intended for young ears*
165. Mutually Pleasing Sex in Marriage with Gary Thomas
Your lips drop sweetness as the honeycomb, my bride; milk and honey are under your tongue. Song of Songs 4:11 (NIV)
Questions We Discuss:
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Will you tell me more about a few of your take aways from studying Song of Songs
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What wisdom can you offer to couples who are asking "is this ok?"
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Will you share ways to get the most out of involving all five senses in married sex?
Gary Thomas’ writing and speaking focuses on bringing people closer to Christ and closer to others. He is the author of 20 books that together have sold over two million copies and have been translated into more than a dozen languages. These books include When to Walk Away: Finding Freedom from Toxic People; Sacred Marriage: What if God Designed Marriage to Make Us Holy More Than to Make Us Happy?, The Sacred Search: What If It’s Not About Who You Marry, but Why?, and the Gold Medallion award winner Authentic Faith.
Gary holds a B.A. in English Literature from Western Washington University, an MA degree in systematic theology from Regent College (Vancouver, BC), and an honorary Doctor of Divinity degree from Western Seminary (Portland, OR).
He serves on the teaching team (and as Writer in Residence) at Second Baptist Church, Houston—a congregation with six campuses and 70,000 members—and is an adjunct faculty member at Western Seminary in Portland, Oregon and Houston Theological Seminary in Houston, Texas.
Gary’s speaking ministry has led him to speak in 49 states and nine different countries, and on numerous national television and radio programs, including multiple appearances on Focus on the Family and Family Life Today. Gary’s interviews on Focus on the Family have been chosen among the “Best of 2013,” “Best of 2014” and “Best of 2017.”
Gary enjoys running in his spare time and has completed 14 marathons, including the Boston Marathon three times. He and his wife Lisa have been married for 35 years and they have three adult children and the smartest, cutest, most adorable granddaughter on the planet.
Gary is active online through his website (www.garythomas.com), twitter (@garyLthomas) Facebook (www.facebook.com/authorgarythomas) and Instagram (garythomasbooks)
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank
Have you ordered your 2022 Powersheets Intentional Goal Planner yet? We highly recommend it!
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday Nov 29, 2021
Monday Nov 29, 2021
164. Inspiring Perspective in Parenting with Kay Wyma
She equips herself with strength [spiritual, mental, and physical fitness for her God-given task] And makes her arms strong. Proverbs 31:17 (AMP)
Questions We Discuss:
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You believe kids thrive on high expectations and you became determined to parent your children "as if they were inherently strong, not inherently weak." . . how did this epiphany launch you into a 12-month experiment with your kids?
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What list did you create for your "Top Twelve Things a Kid Should Know Before Flying the Wyma Coop"?
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Now that some of your children have grown and launched, how do they look back on this experiment?
Kay Wyma is a mom, blogger, vodcaster, and author of four books in which she has tackled, with candor and humor, some of the troubling societal issues that impact us all. Kay's writings have led her to appearances on TODAY, CNN, Hallmark's Home & Family, and more. Before staying at home with her kids, she held positions at the White House and Bank of America. She lives in Dallas, Texas, with her husband and five kids. Connect with Kay at kaywyma.com or on Instagram @kaywyma.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Cleaning House: A Mom's Twelve-Month Experiment to Rid Her Home of Youth Entitlement
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday Nov 22, 2021
Monday Nov 22, 2021
163. Beneficial Rhythms in Marriage with Chris and Jenni Graebe
“Teach us to number our days, that we may gain a heart of wisdom.” Psalm 90:12 (NIV)
Questions We Discuss:
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What marital habits are worthy of prioritizing for the two of you and what return have you seen on this investment?
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How can couples begin to take inventory of their current marriage and then move towards purposefully implementing healthier rhythms into their relationship?
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What are some examples of ways the two of you serve each other and stay committed to one another’s well-being and flourishing?
Chris and Jenni Graebe are lifelong learners intent on discovering the core rhythms of thriving relationships. Chris and Jenni are the cohosts of The Live it Well podcast, where they interview countless couples to discover what makes relationships thrive. They live deep in the trees of Franklin, TN, with their five children.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
Monday Nov 15, 2021
Monday Nov 15, 2021
*Disclaimer* This episode is not intended for little ears.
162. Healing from Spouse's Sexual Addiction with Jennifer Roush
Philippians 4:5 AMP "Let your gentle spirit [your graciousness, unselfishness, mercy, tolerance, and patience] be known to all people. The Lord is near."
Questions We Discuss:
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Will you share your story?
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How did you process through your own journey of bitterness and eventually forgiveness?
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What encouragement do you want to share with the spouse who is currently married to someone who deals with sexual addiction?
Jennifer Roush is the Executive Director of the SperaVita Institute. Her organization trains pregnancy centers around the nation and internationally, helping them reach their full potential and effectively serve women at highest risk for abortion. She has also been a leader in women’s ministry for over 18 years. Jennifer is the woman to talk to if you are feeling shame and don't see a way forward in any area of your life. Her disarming belief that there is "no pit so deep, that God is not deeper still" empowers people to see beyond their present circumstances and create strategy for the future. She has spoken at many different events and ministries including Focus on the Family and Breaking the Veil of Silence. Jennifer and her husband, Troy, have four beautiful daughters.
Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage
Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website
Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!
Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”