65 Simple Solutions to Help You Prepare For, Enrich, or Save Your Marriage with Dr. Matthew Turvey, Director of WinShape Marriage

65. Simple Solutions to Help You Prepare For, Enrich, or Save Your Marriage with Dr. Matthew Turvey, Director of WinShape Marriage

 

**Transcript Below**

 

Isaiah 61:3 (NIV) “and provide for those who grieve in Zion — to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair. They will be called oaks of righteousness, a planting of the LORD for the display of his spender.” 

 

Matthew Turvey, Psy.D. has been a licensed psychologist since 2003 and has worked with countless couples all over the globe to strengthen their marriages. As Director of WinShape Marriage, Dr. Turvey cultivates programs and experiences that inspire couples in all stages of marriage to move toward moments of breakthrough in their relationships. He’s often found leading couples on marriage adventure experiences in exciting locations, guiding couples toward healing, and serving as a liaison for mental, spiritual and relational resources for WinShape Foundation and Chick-fil-A staff. 

 

Dr. Turvey’s family came to WinShape after two years in Lima, Peru where he served the emotional and relational needs of the missionary and international community. Prior to this, he served as vice president of Life Innovations where he helped revise the widely-used PREPARE-ENRICH marriage assessment and trained thousands of pastors and counselors in its use. Dr. Turvey worked with Gary Smalley earlier in his career. He continues to offer a unique perspective on achieving and maintaining healthy relationships through partnerships with numerous well-known authors and experts in the marriage and family field.

 

Married since 1996, he enjoys traveling with his wife, Nicole, and their four children, with whom they’ve visited six continents.  The Turveys are continually journeying through marriage and parenting with an open heart, a sense of humor, and a constant clinging to Proverbs 16:9, knowing that while the mind of man plans his way, the Lord directs his steps.

 

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WinShape Marriage Website 

Sacred Pathways by Gary Thomas

 

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcript**

 

[00:00:09] <Music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.

[00:00:17] <Music>

Laura Dugger: If you've listened to The Savvy Sauce for long, you know how much I enjoy FabFitFun, which is a seasonal subscription box. I will share more details later in this episode, specifically how you can receive over $200 worth of products for less than $40 just by using the code SAVVY at checkout when you visit fabfitfun.com. Thanks for your sponsorship.

Whether your marriage is in crisis or you're just curious about ways to feel closer to your spouse and enjoy that marital connection more, this episode is for you. Psychologist and WinShape Marriage director, Dr. Matthew Turvey is my guest today. He's going to offer a unique perspective on maintaining a healthy marriage. I think you're going to laugh and learn from this time together. Here's our chat.
Welcome to the services, Dr. Matthew Turvey. 

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Thank you so much. Glad to be here.

Laura Dugger: [00:01:22] Well, as we begin, will you just share a bit about yourself, your background, and your work at WinShape Marriage?

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Yes. I'm the director of WinShape Marriage. I've been there for about five years full-time, eight years overall. Before that started though, I've been married for 22 years to my wife Nicole, got four kids. Braden is 17. He's my soccer player and doing college stuff right now. And 15-year-old Alexis who does improv comedy of all things and also play soccer. And a 12-year-old engineer named Drew. He's our mathematician. And a 6-year-old daughter named Maya we adopted from China actually several years ago. So that rounds out the family. My wife stays at home, does some homeschool with them. And we just have a happy little family life. So that's us. 

Laura Dugger: [00:02:05] That is awesome. And with your work, I think that stories are always so powerful. So do you have any specific stories of redemption or reconciliation that stand out from some previous couples who have attended a WinShape Marriage event?

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Yeah. So with WinShape, our little tagline, if I can say a little elevator pitch, we prepare, strengthen, or save marriages through intensives, retreats and adventures. So we've got quite a bit for kind of couples at every stage of their relationship. 

And it's always fun to see couples who are preparing for marriage, you know, premarital couples, it's fun to see them... and actually, even here, just this past week or so I ran into a couple that was at one of our programs called Prepare To Last. And they said, "You know what, that just set us up, right? We are in three years now and we've been through some challenges, we've had some issues at work, some issues with extended family," and they said, "but you know what, we had kind of our head screwed on straight after Prepare To Last." Because they knew what they wanted out of marriage, what marriage was about, what was most important to them. So it just got them on the right path. So I thought that was a really cool story to hear from this young couple. 

[00:03:12] I think about stories of redemption sometimes for couples who go through retreats, because you know, retreats are for couples who are looking for maybe that next step, needs some encouragement, maybe they're doing okay, they're not in crisis, but they just want to invest in their marriage. So for couples like that, it's just neat to hear how a weekend experience, when couples take the time to invest in their relationship and be serious about it and say, Hey, we're gonna get away, we're gonna get away from the kids, from technology, from work, all that stuff, we're going to do something for us and for our marriage that draws closer to each other and closer to the Lord. This is a powerful experience for couples.

So I don't know if there's any deeply moving and tear-jerking stories about couples who go to retreats, but I can guarantee the couples that go to those are finding the Lord and finding each other in a more powerful way. So there's peeling back the layers of onion in the relationship and growing in connection and intimacy. 

For our intensives, those are the tear-jerking stories. Those are for couples typically who are facing challenges, maybe on the brink of divorce, and they come to WinShape and they go through this four-day experience with five other couples, a couple of Christian therapists. And they're there because they don't know what else to do. It's because they've tried a lot perhaps and they're just not sure that marriage is going to make it. So couples who go through that. I've heard multiple times of couples that say, you know what, God showed up in an incredible way. 

So the chance to really kind of bear it all in some ways emotionally for their spouse, maybe it's an experience they've never done before, and so those couples we treat them very tenderly and we take the trust they place in us at WinShape very seriously because it's a difficult thing to do, to talk about some of your heartache, your pains, those things that necessarily haven't gone the way you dream they would in your marriage. But couples who go through that and do that work, about 83%, 84% of those couples are still together two years later doing a lot better. So to me, that's a pretty powerful testimony.

Laura Dugger: [00:05:05] Wow. Yes, that number is incredible. And I love that it sounds like WinShape addresses things both proactively, and you're there reactively if somebody needs a tune-up.

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Exactly.

Laura Dugger: [00:05:17] And you've kind of touched on this, but could you explain the difference between a WinShape Marriage retreat and intensive and an adventure that you offer?

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Yeah. So the intensives, those are for couples who are facing challenges basically, or they're looking for a breakthrough in their marriage. So intensives aren't just for couples in crisis. They're for couples who are saying, You know, it feels like we're spinning our wheels here, we need to do something different. 

So those experiences are four days, five couples, two Christian therapists, usually a male and a female. Doesn't always work out that way. But that's a WinShape Retreat in Rome, Georgia, about two hours north of Atlanta. And those are run by three partner ministries that we have. We have Focus on the Family, we have the Center for Relational Care, and The Hideaway Experience. They run the programmatic element of everything, and we provide the space for those experiences to happen. We provide hospitality. It is an incredibly transformative experience for couples that go through that. 

The retreats, again, happen at WinShape retreat. And those are weekend events, usually on Friday afternoon through Sunday. And that's more for like the general public who just say, Hey, we want to do something for marriage. It's time to invest, time to get away. 

Our retreats are for couples who really want to make the time and space for something new in their relationship. So they're there at WinShape Retreat and a few other places around the country we do our retreats occasionally. But they're just saying, Let's kind of get a refresher course here. 

[00:06:40] So we provide them with grace-based hospitality, we provide them with this beautiful setting where they can just come together, draw closer to each other, and draw closer to the Lord. And through the program and through the chance to get them together, as opposed to hearing from us. We don't have to be the experts in everything. We would like couples to have an amazing experience. It's very powerful for couples that go through that. 

Lastly, the adventures that we do—I have mentioned those—the adventures that we do are chances for small groups of couples who are led by what we call a host couples, somebody who's been to one of our trainings, who's been vetted by us, we know they're in growing marriage, not a perfect marriage, but a growing marriage. 

And they just create these bucket list adventures and experiences for couples who are going around the world at different places, like maybe sailing in the British Virgin Islands, or hiking The Inca Trail to Machu Picchu, or trekking on the Camino de Santiago in northern Spain and a few other places where we go. But couples are getting the chance to get outside of their norm and to do something exciting, do something adventurous and do it together and achieve a goal that they couldn't necessarily achieve on their own, all while having amazing conversations and chances to introspect and look at their marriage.

Laura Dugger: [00:07:51] And I know you and I have spoken previously specifically about these adventures. And you say that generally an outcome is a stronger connection, and stronger memories. But also, there's some fascinating stuff that you mentioned, even with our brain, what happens on these adventures.

Dr. Matthew Turvey: So when couples get out of their normal, and we put them in a novel situation where they're faced with a challenge, which is what happens in our adventures, they start to create new memories. The more novel experience is, the more challenging the experience is, the more you have the chance for kind of a renewed sense of change or transformation perhaps in your brain, in your heart, in your spirit, in your behavior, and thus in your marriage. 

So we create these experiences and these adventures for couples that... they're kind of like a metaphor for their marriage. So they have an element of journey and an element of challenge. And when couples go through these experiences, they're there and they walk through these experiences. And I think, in the end, when they conquer that Inca Trail together, like say, that's like 26-mile hike over four days at about 14,000 feet, so you feel like a chubby smoker when you're done with that. It is a mess. It is a hard hike. 

But when couples go through them and they do it together, they've achieved what we call a superordinate goal. It's something that you can only do together with your spouse. So that's just a sense of accomplishment. If you can do that together, surely, you can figure out how to load the dishwasher better when you get back home, you can figure out how to put the kids to bed a little bit better. So it gives couples a sense of maybe a renewed vision for the relationship. 

[00:09:26] Some of the science behind that stuff is really cool, because we know that when couples are in these experiences, it's what we call a sense of flow. There's a Czech psychologist who talks about this concept of flow. And in flow, this is where you just focus. You probably had an experience. If you're an artist or maybe you are a cyclist or a hiker, like when I'm hiking the Inca Trail, that's just one foot in front of the other, I'm not thinking about anything but the activity that I'm in. 

So when you do that and you can share that experience with your spouse, you have different neurotransmitters that are firing off. So things like dopamine, norepinephrine, all these chemicals that are going off in your brain that are creating this positive experience. And when you have a positive experience like that, norepinephrine actually acts as a positive memory fixative is what we call it. So it's kind of saying that like, Okay, you know what, that was awesome. We should do that again. That's what it feels like.

Sometimes we have these amazing experiences, these bucket-list experiences on the adventures. Oxytocin is kicking off in your brain. Oxytocin, a lot of people know now as the cuddle hormone or the cuddle drug is what's released after sex and during breastfeeding. So if that's released for you and your spouse after this experience, it's like, Okay, we should cuddle. It's almost like this celebration. That's a bonding experience for couples when those neurotransmitters are released in their brain during the shared adventures. 

Laura Dugger: [00:10:52] That's so fascinating because it's something that we probably wouldn't be aware of. But there's so much power even going on in our brains connecting us. And with all of these WinShape retreats, and intensives, and adventures, they all include what you call five agents of transformation. So will you share what those five agents are and why they're important?

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Yeah. So those five agents of transformation are really kind of core to our DNA at WinShape Marriage. So any experience that we have, we think should have five key elements. One is the sequestered settings. So getting away from technology, it's getting away from, as much as I love them, it's getting away from my kids, it's getting away from work, it's getting away from responsibilities, and typically getting out in nature where we just have the chance to slow down. 

There's actually some science behind this idea of a three-day reset that happens in our brain and in our bodies. When we're out in nature for three days away from the square lines of cement, and parking lots and all this stuff, when you're out in nature, it's just like, "Okay, I was kind of created for this." So we can slow down. When we slow down we're able to listen to our spouse better, we're able to listen to the Lord better. So a sequestered setting is the first one. 

[00:12:03] We provide grace-based hospitality for couples. And WinShape has close ties with Chick-fil-A. You probably know. So hospitality has always been at Chick-fil-A. So all of our WinShape Marriage experiences, we're gonna make sure that we have grace-based hospitality. And it's really trying to figure out how to serve the couples that we're with in ways that they may not even expect. So we like to surprise and delight them, we like to be there for them. We like to give them experiences that are going to be powerful for them. And that can be through serving food. That can be through taking care of needs where they have needs. It can be all sorts of things. 
The third element that we really want to make sure is involved with every WinShape Marriage experience is Bible-based teaching. So this is just where, well, probably most folks think of when they think of a retreat, perhaps is just Bible-based teaching. And well, that's important. It's not the only thing that we believe is transformative for couples when they go through one of our experiences. 

If information alone transform, then go read Wikipedia, go just, you know, read a book. And that's powerful and that's important, but sometimes that information and that teaching isn't really sticky. It doesn't stick with us unless we combine it with these other four elements.

[00:13:12] So the fourth element that is really important to us is elements of worship. We want to make sure that every experience has an element of worship. And here's what's cool about that. Worship is not just singing praise songs. It's not just guitars around the campfires. It's not just singing hymns, or whatever, you know, people are used to. 

I really want to encourage people to find their spiritual personality. Years ago, my wife and I read a book by Gary Thomas called Sacred Pathways. And he lists eight or nine different ways that people relate to God and connect to God. What was powerful for us was that I learned that this whole whole idea of having a shared Bible study or praying together in the morning, like that's just wasn't our shtick. I mean, it just didn't work for us. 

So we tried it many times, come to find out that I connect to God through learning. When I learn something new, I feel like, all right, Lord, you're in it. And I love that. My wife connects to God through service. So we were trying to commit this deal where both of us would learn my way for learning, you know. But she learned through service and connected to God through service. So we just tried to make sure that we provide experiences for couples that are going to hit on all those different areas instead of just one.

[00:14:18] And the last one, last element or agent of transformation is experiential learning. So we want to make sure that you're not just learning with your eyes. You know, you're learning with your hands sometimes. you learn with your feet. You're out there doing something. And so we really craft experiences for couples that are metaphors for powerful principles and powerful lessons in their relationship in their marriage. 

Laura Dugger: We'll come back shortly after a brief message from our sponsor. 
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Laura Dugger: [00:16:24] We're going to talk about three different types of relationships today and I would just love for you to speak to each of these types of couples. So first, the ones who want to prepare well for their marriage, and second, the ones who desire to enrich their marriage, and third, those who are just barely hanging on and they need to save their marriage. So what message do you have first for the ones who just want to prepare well for marriage?

Dr. Matthew Turvey: So do that early. I mean, don't wait until you're engaged, quite frankly. A lot of couples will come to our prepared last program or go to a premarital counselor with their pastor, their priest, or something of that community. Don't do that once you're engaged. I mean, make sure you do it before you're married. But if you could do that before you're engaged, man, you're way better off.

Because once the engagement happens, you're thinking, or she's thinking, maybe not both of you are thinking about, one of you is thinking about, oh, just a wedding. You know what? That's a big ol event and that's a great celebration. But if you got that on your mind, it's hard to think about your relationship, especially as you get closer and closer to the date. So do it early. 

There are a lot of great assessments out there that you can take to check out all the different aspects of your relationship, people who can go through that with you. But take it seriously. I mean, be ready for your marriage and not just for your wedding. 

Laura Dugger: [00:17:40] We're all about practicality here. So do you have any practical tips or tricks that you recommend for couples who are wanting to enrich their marriage, if they're hoping especially to take it from good to great?

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Yeah, absolutely. Do a retreat. Getaway. I mean, we highly recommend... whether it's one of our retreats or somebody else's. I mean, it's just important sometimes to be able to remove some of the stresses, remove some of the barriers, remove some of the dross, the stuff that kind of impedes us sometimes. And you can't always do that when you're in the thick of it at home. So I think removing yourself from that situation is often very important. 

I encourage also couples to not be afraid of doing deep work. A lot of couples come to retreat. There's usually the dragger and the draggee. It's usually the woman who's the dragger and the guy who's the draggee. In my relationship, I'm the dragger, my wife's the draggee. But just don't be afraid of going a little bit deeper with your spouse. Because I really think that in the chance to be emotionally vulnerable with your spouse, that's where we find connection, that's where we find intimacy. So don't be afraid of that. 

I think we all were created for connection, and so we want that. And so if you trust the process of a retreat, then I can pretty much guarantee you're going to find something deeper in your relationship that maybe you didn't know was there. So I also encourage couples to take a posture of discovery. Take a posture discovering your relationship. You don't think that you got it all together. 

I've worked with too many couples who have been married for, you know, whether it's seven years or whether it's 50 years, and they're saying, "No, I kind of got it figured out. I got him figured out." And they just let life go along. And they're not very intentional about it. They don't think that there's anything better or new for them. But if you take this posture of discovery, it kind of necessitates being humble. Like I don't have it all figured out. "So, sweetie..." My wife name's Nicole. "So Nicole, I want to learn something more about you. I want to go a little bit deeper in my relationship. What can we share? What's new? Can we do that?" So those are just some tips I would have for couples looking to enrich their marriage.

Laura Dugger: [00:19:45] Those are awesome. And I think if it does feel a little bit scary to open up and go deeper with your spouse, I think it's comforting to know that typically the other person listening to that. it will unlock compassion in them toward you. And so hopefully that's encouraging for someone today. And as we move on to this third type of couple, what would you want to communicate to those who are about to pursue a divorce?

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Man, I know there are times where divorce is going to happen. So first off I want to make sure that those couples know there's a ton of grace from us, from the Lord, from those around them. Like, nobody really goes into marriage thinking, "We're gonna get a divorce." Right? So it's not plan A, it's not ever plan A. But there are times where when that is happening, we want to make sure that we are loving, and we're non-judgmental, and we're there beside those couples to support them.

I would also say that we want to say I think a lot of times there's hope. I just think that if couples can change some certain aspects or learn a few new things, like you just talked about compassion, if they can start to see their spouse with a lens of compassion instead of judgment, there's a lot of things that couples can do to actually save their marriage.

So WinShape, we want to come alongside those couples, and we want to help them. One thing we say a lot is that we want to help you as the guide on the side, not the sage on the stage. And so in that we do have some experts in marriage. But at the same time, like we're all people too, you know? So we want to walk alongside couples who are not feeling like they have hope, and we want to maybe be that out for them for a while. 

We're going to hold that for them, we're going to hold that tension, that sadness, that grief, that anxiety they may have and we're going to do everything we can while they're with us to help them find a better way, to find some grace, to find some redemption for their story. And I've seen it work over and over and over again. The toughest situation where couples haven't been together for years, haven't lived in the same house, slept in the same bed, touched, talked for months, if not years, they can come to an intensive, and God shows up. God still in the business of doing miracles. 

So I guess I would ask couples if they thought... you know if they could just give it another chance. When couples come into intensive, I never promise a result. We can't do that, you know? But what I can promise is that if a couple were to invest in the four to five days of intensive and trust the process, trust their counselors, dive into it deep, I can pretty much guarantee they're going to be in a different place, in a better place at the end of that experience. 

Whether or not that means a marriage that is going to work, I can't promise that, you know. I wish I could. But I can guarantee that they're going to find some grace and they're going to find a new way of thinking that's probably going to help them in the future.

Laura Dugger: [00:22:39] Definitely. I love the grace in that response. 
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[00:23:29] From your education, Dr. Turvey, and with your time just spent working with so many couples, are there any reoccurring patterns that you see in those marriages that seem to be the happiest and healthiest?

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Yeah. I think couples that are doing really well they're intentional about their relationship. They don't sweat the small stuff. You know, I love my wife and we have an amazing marriage. And I'm thankful because truthfully, we've had some downtime. But for the most part, it's been pretty good. 

And I think I look back on that and I think, Okay, in 22 years, what have we done right? We haven't sweat the small stuff. We went into this deal not really knowing what we're doing, quite frankly, but we both have come to the point where we have this shared vision for what we think our marriage can be. So I think couples that are doing well tend to have a shared vision.

Now couples are doing amazing have probably written down the shared vision and you know, put calligraphy on a pretty Pinterest poster on the wall, stuff like that. We're not there yet. But like I think we have this sense that we know what we're aiming for. We know what we want to do together, what we want our marriage and our family life to be about, what we want our legacy to be about. So I really think healthy and happy couples are able to do that.

I think that couples who are doing well appreciate the differences with their spouse. I know from personal experience when I was first married, I kind of married my wife because of the way she made me feel. So I loved her because of something she did for me. Then after a while, two years, three years, four years, whatever it was, she kind of got on my nerves. 

Then I had to work through that and say, Okay, those things that I loved and those things I don't really like. So for a while then I kind of had to love in spite of the way my wife made me feel. But then eventually it kind of went back circle. And I realized those things that I loved in spite of are now those things I love because of. And so for me, it's been a beautiful expression of how I can love somebody who's totally different than me, shouldn't be like me, I shouldn't be like her. But in our uniqueness, we're able to kind of live fully as who we've been created to be.

Laura Dugger: [00:25:33] And I think we've covered so much and so many different types of couples. But let's just boil down all of this information. Do you have one baby step that a listener could take today, just to start moving in the right direction of pursuing a happier and healthier relationship?

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Absolutely. Assume the best. Assume the best of your spouse. Assume the best and then seek the best for your spouse. I'm just a firm believer that so many times we come to marriage, and after a while, junk builds up between us and then we start assuming the worst. Like, you know, oh, she didn't love the dishwasher, right? She must have it in for me. Or she didn't do this thing for the kids around the house so she must think, you know, I'm a jerk or she must be mad at me or whatever. 

But instead, what if I just said, You know what? I didn't see something happen that I wanted. The problem is my expectation, not my spouse. So I'm going to assume the best about my wife and say, You know what, she's probably had a tough day.
There's some big fancy, psychological terms about that called the fundamental attribution error, which is a long other story, which is, you know, I gotta sound smart. Sometimes I'm gonna say that little phrase today. But if people look it up, they'll learn about that. We tend to attribute the good things in our spouse to context around them as opposed to their internal reasons. We have to assume that the good things about our spouse are because of who they are, and not just because of the external circumstances around them. So assume the best, seek the best.

Laura Dugger: [00:26:57] I love that. And I think it tends to be such a self-fulfilling prophecy, because when you are seeking the best or assuming the best with your spouse, that's actually the person that they're becoming and they start doing those things as well. This has been awesome if anybody wants to find out more about you or about WinShape, where would you direct them?

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Best place to find out more is winshapemarriage.org. WinShape is W-I-N-S-H-A-P-E from shaping winners as what came down from Truett Cathy about 35 years ago. You'll find all about our intensives, our retreats, our adventures, being a host couple that lead those adventures, and just all the things that we offer.

Laura Dugger: [00:27:41] Our listeners know that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge or discernment. And so I have my final question for you today. Dr. Matt, what is your savvy sauce?

Dr. Matthew Turvey: My savvy sauce comes from a lesson I learned from my daughter. I said at the beginning of the podcast that she's in improv comedy. And she came home one day, and she said, "One of the rules of improv comedy is that you never want to say no." She goes, "Always say yes and see what happens." So in my life lately I've been trying to live by that mantra—the say yes and see what happens. As long as it's not unsafe, illegal, unethical, stuff like that. I find too many times that in life, I shut off opportunities because I've said no. So I'm going to say yes and see what happens.

Laura Dugger: [00:28:24] Love it. I hope your daughter's excited that she taught you something. 

Dr. Matthew Turvey: She's famous now.

Laura Dugger: Well, Dr. Turvey, thank you so much for just taking the time to share more about these incredible options that are available through WinShape and just for offering every listener hope. It was such a pleasure to host you today.

Dr. Matthew Turvey: Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. 

Laura Dugger: [00:28:44] One more thing before you go, have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

[00:30:07] So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray, amen. 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So are you ready to get started?

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.