74 Effective Parenting for Toddlers Through College with Wife, Mother to 8, and The Exchange Founder, Elizabeth Pehrson

74. Effective Parenting for Toddlers Through College with Wife, Mother to 8, and The Exchange Founder, Elizabeth Pehrson

 

**Transcription Below**

 

Luke 5:15+16 “Yet the news about him spread all the more, so that crowds of people came to hear him and to be healed of their sicknesses. But Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed.”

 

Elizabeth Pehrson wants to live in a world where her children pick up after themselves without being asked, a short order cook shows up every night to make dinner and laundry folds itself. As a mom of eight children - ages 19,18,17,15,14,13,11 and 8, she thrives on coffee and chaos and she is energized by people. She is married to her best friend, David, also known as the most patient man in the world!  She loves investing in women.  When she is not taking care of her small army, her flock of chickens and her two dogs, you can find her fishing on a lake. Elizabeth is founder of The Exchange, which is a monthly gathering that seeks to inspire women to live on purpose and with intention.  You can reach her at empehrson@gmail.com. 

 

The Exchange Website 

 

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription Below**

 

[00:00:00] <Music>

 

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.

 

[00:00:18] <Music>

 

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[00:00:57] Elizabeth Pehrson is well known around Atlanta, Georgia for offering sound parenting advice based in biblical truth. I'm thrilled to have her join us today as our energetic guest. You will end this chat feeling empowered to apply savvy principles to your own family after she shares great tips for parents of toddlers to parents of adult children. Here's our chat. 

 

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Elizabeth. 

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Thank you so much for having me. I cannot tell you how excited I am to be here. 

 

Laura Dugger: Well, can you just start us off by sharing a bit about your family and your life right now?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, absolutely. My husband, David and I met on a blind date about 20 years ago. I ran into a friend of mine that I hadn't seen since the fifth grade at a wedding, and she said, "I have got to introduce you to my brother-in-law." And I said, "Well, tell me about him." And she said, "Oh, he lives in Atlanta." And I said, "Oh, no, I'm a small-town girl. No way."

 

And then she said, "Oh, I mean, he's a dentist." And I said, "Absolutely not." Like strike two I said, "Have you ever been to a dentist who like... you know, I don't ever like to go to the dentist." And she's like, "Well, he's 30." And I said, "30?" I was like 25. I was like, "That is ancient. Let's forget it."

 

And she hounded me and hounded me and hounded me until finally I just relented and I said, "Fine, I'll be in Atlanta. I'll meet him for lunch." But I didn't think it was gonna go anywhere. And I thought it'd be funny if I wore a set of fake teeth that were very, very, very unattractive to our first blind date and he thought it was hysterical. And I thought, "If he doesn't think it's funny, he's not for me anyway." And he thought it was so funny. We were engaged three months after that and married three months after that. 

 

[00:02:28] And I can tell you this, it's been a whirlwind of a ride. We had eight children in our first 11 years of marriage. And it has been super fun ever since. We have one in college, three in high school, two in middle school, and one in...no way. And two in elementary school. I can't even keep it all straight. 

 

So we have a total. We have four boys and four girls. We love Jesus. We love people. We love pouring into people, particularly with those with children, because we want them to live intentionally and we want them to live purposeful lives with their kids, because we believe personally that there's no greater responsibility than the raising of the next generation. We are just simply imperfect parents raising imperfect kids, you know, doing the best we can alongside everybody else. So that's us.

 

Laura Dugger: [00:03:13] Well, and that is always intriguing, I'm sure, when people hear you mention that you have eight children. So first, what do your logistics even look like at home?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Well, let me tell you this. First, people are very intrigued by this. You don't really realize it until you get it everywhere you go. They're particularly blown away at how close they are together. Like right now we have a 19, 18, 17, 15, 14, 13, 11, and almost 9-year-old. 

 

In different seasons of our lives, people are curious I think for different reasons. So like when they were young, and I would walk into a grocery store with a five-year-old, a four-year-old, a three-year-old, a one-year-old, and a newborn, they would literally stare at me like I had robbed a daycare or something. They were like, what in the world? Like I have a third eyeball.

 

And their number one comment they would always say is, "Man, you have your hands full." And my kids have picked up on that at a very, very young age and they couldn't quite figure it out. But then as they got a little bit older, and then we had three in middle school and four in elementary school, people would want to know, Oh my goodness, how do you handle all the homework? Or how do you send in seven technologies to school or sharing...? How many computers do you have at home? Or just how do you keep the logistics straight? 

 

And I feel like now with six teenagers, we're at a stage where everyone wants to know how in the world do you manage like cell phones, car insurance, paying for college, you know, things like that. 

 

[00:04:34] So over the years, they've been intrigued for different reasons, with their ages. But I would say hands down the biggest thing logistically that has helped us in all of the stages, for sure, is being organized. We had to set that tone early on, like very early on our home. And that's that we're just not individuals, but we're a family. You know, we're a family unit and we have to be organized to the very best of our ability to make sure that everything runs smoothly. 

 

But also and I'd say equally as important as setting that tone is that we have to be flexible because we have a lot of curveballs that come our way. The kids have to learn to roll with the punches, you know. Like, if the travel baseball game gets rain-delayed, and we're late to our next event, or if six of them have an event at the exact same time, not all of them are going to have a parent to take them to the event, or even watch the event at the very least. 

 

But we want them to know from a very young age that they each have a very, very important role to play in our family unit. And it's a team effort. So we started really early on with daily chores. People always ask, how young can you start? And we start as early as three. 

 

[00:05:39] I would tell you, you asked about logistics and I think about mom hacks, but hands down my biggest, biggest, most important mom hack is my whiteboard. I don't know if you saw it when you walked in, but it is my lifeline. And it's where I can delegate everything that needs to be done in the day and in the week to my children. It's what keeps things running smoothly in our house.

 

It has everything from all of our activities to things that have to get done as far as chores, to carpools, meals, birthdays. Anything and everything that has to happen in the week it's on that whiteboard. It's the very first thing that kids see when they walk in the door, and they know exactly what their chores are. And they know when they have to be done. I really don't think I could live without it or manage without it. That's my biggest mom hack. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:06:25] Well, in that organization, is that something that was a learned skill in you or is that a natural temperament or personality trait? 

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: No, it isn't a natural thing. It is a learned thing where I've had to go before other people and I've had to say, "Hey, okay, it is out of my control now. I'm so far outnumbered, like, how can I do this and what makes the most sense?" And I learned even through the temperaments, which I'm sure you're familiar with, that I have a lot of blues in my home. And they like structure, and they like to see what's for dinner and they like to see what their chore is and they know before they go to school, or right away. That really just helps that child individually as well. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:06:59] Okay, so I'm sitting here in your beautiful home, and it's so clean and organized. So you said that you learned this over time. Do you have any tips for some mom who's just starting out and maybe she has kids close together and she wants to be more organized as well?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, absolutely. I would say start on the weekend with preparation. I mean, that's what we do. I'm gonna share a little bit about it more later. But we have a staff meeting on Sunday nights just to go through the week and see what has to get done. And I check in with each child and like, when are you working? When are you babysitting? Do you have any doctor's appointments? Do you have PT appointments that so many of my kids seem to have? 

 

And I go ahead and get it organized and I plan it out for the whole week. Then based on that, I'll look and go, Okay, well, we have seven activities in the afternoon, so it's not the time to drill out. You know, we're not even going to be home. So that's going to be a crock pot meal day. 

 

Or I'll look at the weather because we have nothing the next day and I'm thinking that Monday and is supposed to be 100% thunderstorm. So again, we're not going to grill out, but I can plan. Because then what would happen is you buy all this meat or you buy all this food and you plan to grill out, well then you can't do it for whatever reason. So it just saves time. 

 

I go to the grocery store on Sunday, I hit all of the stores, and buy everything for the whole week so I don't have to go back until midweek. The only reason I go back midweek is because we drink 12 gallons of milk a week and I can't store that many. So I go midweek for more produce and milk. But it saves so much time throughout the week. And that hands down will keep you organized and keep things running smoothly.

 

Laura Dugger: [00:08:27] That's incredible. I'm still kind of stuck on the 12 gallons of milk per week. But with such a full house, did you strategically fit in time to enrich your marriage? 

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, absolutely. We have certainly tried to do so anyway. We want to be married people first and parents second. And we realize that we're going to be together when the kids are grown and gone, so we want to make sure that we foster that relationship with the two of us. 

 

So we've had to be creative over the years, that's for sure. We've tried to have regular date nights, and sometimes through different seasons, that's more feasible than others. I remember when we first got married, David had just opened his practice, brand new dental practice, and we could hardly afford to pay a babysitter with six kids and go do something. So we would pay a sitter and we would go fishing, or we would go play tennis or just do something that was super inexpensive.

 

Also over the years, I have to say we have been so very, very, very blessed by so many friends that have offered to watch our children so that we can get that time together. We're always on the constant learning curve. But we're always looking to connect in different ways. 

 

I would say in the phase that we're in right now, it's been day dates, which has been really, really fun. He gets off work now on Wednesdays early and so we go have lunch and we'll go fishing or we'll just do something in the middle of the day, which is totally unique and new for us. But it's been really fun.

 

[00:09:47] One of the things I do want to add about our dates is that we purposely do not ever talk about our children on our dates. Like that's our time to connect. That's for us and no one else.

 

In addition to that though we do have a lot of other little things that we do to make sure that we stay connected throughout the week because it gets so crazy once Monday hits. Like I mentioned earlier, we have the Sunday night staff meetings, and we stop and we talk about the upcoming week. You know, what's going on, our schedules, which child is needing some extra love and attention right now, which child needs more spiritual direction, which child needs to go to the dermatologist, which child needs to go the orthodontist for the first time, things like that, that we have to just like pause and be aware of. 

 

Or even like, which child's slipping through the cracks right now, because we have some squeaky wheels and we haven't been giving this one enough attention. So we always want to be on the same page with eight kids. And it's certainly a lot to keep up with. And that's a simple way that we can connect. 

 

Another thing I thought about that David does intentionally that I love is that he calls me every day on the way home from work, just maybe for a minute, maybe five minutes. But it's that few short minutes of uninterrupted time before he walks in the door and everyone's Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, and you know, then we're literally dividing and conquering, running in a million different directions. But that's kind of our time to how was your day, how are you, those types of things we can connect with.

 

[00:11:09] And a couple other little things that we try to do, and I don't always do it very well, but I asked him periodically, maybe every six months, maybe every year, Hey, in the season that we're in right now, I know, I can't do everything well, but what are three things that I can do that are meaningful to you? Or what are three things that I can focus on that I can do really well?

 

And the funny thing is he's such a simple guy that he rarely has three things. It's usually one or two at the most. And he rarely changes them up. But I think the point of it is that the act of intentionality and just asking him, Hey, you know what's important to you right now? What can I do for you? 

 

And then the last thing is that he leaves for work really early in the morning while it's still very dark, and I don't always do it but I try every single morning before he leaves for work, it's like, hey, what's one thing I can do for you today? And just that check-in, just that intentionality of that. 

 

I think what we've learned over the years that in order to enrich our marriage and to connect, it's not anything major. It's just all these little simple things that build up over time. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:12:07] That's such honoring question. I love to hear some examples like that. Back to your staff meetings, are those just with you and your husband first and then you include the kids as well? 

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: No, it's just with David and me. We'll sit upstairs, and you know, he might make notice, you know, obviously in his line of work.. He'll say, you know, it's really about time for this one to see the orthodontist. Well, I had no idea. Or hey, this one's really struggling with her self-image, maybe you can just give her some extra dad attention or dad love and just pour into her.

 

So it's really more just trying to meet their needs, not just physically but spiritually, their heart needs. Like, Hey, have you noticed this one's been withdrawing a little bit? Have you noticed this one's complaining or these two cannot get along? They're like oil and water. What are we going to do? So it's more like that. 

 

But funny that you asked about if the kids are involved. They are not involved with that. But on Sunday nights, one of the things that we started doing a number of years ago was... we call it TED Talk Sundays. And I don't really know why we call it that. But I think maybe the first time we watched a TED talk together. But we eat in the family room and watch TV, like a purposeful thing, whether it's a documentary, or whether it's a TED talk, or a YouTube video, or something like that. We do that with the kids. And that's kind of fun to do just as a family. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:13:17] Oh, those are neat traditions. So going back to raising all of these kids, how were you able to care for yourself during all of these seasons of parenting?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, that's a good question. In regards to self care, I will tell you that the season when that hands down was the hardest for me was when my kids were little. For 15 straight years, I had either a baby or a toddler in the home. And 15 years is a really long time. And I struggled. I really, really did.

 

But David would walk in the door after what seemed like an eternity. You know, he'd be gone all day and I'd been at home, like I said, a six-year-old, five-year-old, four-year-old, two-year-old, one-year-old and I was sickly pregnant. And I just needed adult interaction. That's one of the things that helps me with my self care, because people are what energize me. Absolutely.

 

So those years were really hard and the years that I was in the trenches. And I felt so drained, and I felt exhausted because I didn't have that adult interaction that I craved. But the good thing, my sweet husband, he was always so willing and gracious to allow me that time if I had the energy to go out. 

 

As the kids got older and became a little bit more involved in activities, I was able to then go out and have conversations with other moms and develop relationships and interact, whether it's at the ballpark or whatever it might have been. And that helped. I will say, now hands down. I'm in the best season as far as able to foster friendships and relationships. And that's what fills my cup. So it gives me energy. 

 

[00:14:44] You also just alluded to self care, and that's kind of I'm thinking of like, what fills me up. And that's people. But I also think physically is another big part of that, like how you take care of yourself physically with that many kids and you just feel like all you're doing is caring for somebody else.

 

In the earlier years, obviously, that was very hard to do, because I was either pregnant or I had just given birth or got pregnant again. And I was extremely, extremely sick throughout all of my pregnancies. So working out was the last thing that I felt like doing. But once my kids were in school, oh, my goodness, it was so much easier to go on a walk or play tennis or workout or do whatever I wanted to do. 

 

And I would say, in addition to that, taking care of myself emotionally, and spiritually is very, very, very important, because so much stems from that. I found that for me, one of the most helpful ways just to stay on track spiritually and check myself emotionally was through mentors.

 

When we first got married, we were involved in a super incredible ministry that had older couples that were willing and ready just to pour into us. And we immediately hit it off with one of the couples there. Now all I can say is that they loved on us so well. Like they genuinely loved on us. They watched our children for us. 

 

[00:15:57] I remember one time, we just had six kids with the stomach bug, and we were gone that next weekend, and they came to our house and cleaned it from top to bottom for us. And they were such a huge influence in our lives. We even named our seventh child after them. His name is Witt, because they meant that much to us. 

 

And they just served us so well during those years when we were just in the trenches. That's the only way I know to describe it. But in addition to them, we also have another couple that live in Florida and they have 12 kids, and they are absolutely amazing. And the thing that's amazing about them, as busy as they are, they always, always, always make time for us. 

 

She's never too busy to take my phone call. She always is offering me sound practical advice. And even more than that, just friendship and perspective and humor to get through those tough years. So, mentor is a huge part of my self care.

 

Laura Dugger: [00:16:47] I think that's always encouraging to hear and inspiring to find your own mentor.

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, yeah. 

 

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Laura Dugger: [00:19:08] Those friendships you were alluding to earlier, did you prioritize those during all of the stages of parenting?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: I tried to the best of my ability because friends are my lifeline whether it's friends far away that I stay in touch with by phone, or a friend that I talked to every morning first thing or those that I just text with periodically throughout the day and then those, obviously, I see on a regular basis. But they all give me energy, you know different friends in different ways. 

 

Obviously, some seasons are easier than others to foster those relationships. But being a high yellow extrovert, it is definitely a high priority for me. 

 

You know, when your kids are younger, your friends tend to be those with kids in your same stage of life. You're involved in the same activities or in your small group or sports families. It's the ones that run in the same circles that you do. For us, when that was the case, we always tried to look for people that had the same type of parenting mindset that we had, because that's who you naturally spend a lot of time with, you know, when your kids are younger. And we wanted to be like-minded in our parenting with them. 

 

But then the beauty of it is, as your kids get older, you have a little bit more freedom and time to seek out other friendships, whether you're still in the same circles with your kids or not. I recognize that not everybody has the need or the strong desire to foster friendships or be around a lot of people. Not everyone has that. But for me, it really is a need, and so therefore, I've made it a priority. 

 

One of the reasons is because I love people. But the other reason is that there's only two things that last forever. And it's people and the Word of God. So it's like, to my best of my ability, that's where I want to spend my time. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:20:45] For the mom who has that same desire, maybe she's yellow temperament as well, did you ever feel guilty prioritizing those friendships when your kids were little?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: You know, I think my husband has been a huge gift in that because he never made me feel guilty. And I've been wired this way since the day I was born. So I knew it was a need of mine. I didn't necessarily know that I was, you know, a seven or that I'm a yellow. I didn't really have the words to put to it. But because he was so free and understood that when I came back, I had more life, and I was a better me. And the better me that I can be, the better version of me those around me get. So I didn't. Maybe that's wrong. I don't know. But I didn't.

 

Laura Dugger: [00:21:27] I love it. What did have to go or what did you have to sacrifice and say no to in order to say yes to giving your family adequate time? 

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, wow. Over the years, cumulatively, I would say lots of things. There were seasons when I had to give up leading weekly women's groups or give up tennis, which I love, or step back from being super involved in my kids' activities, or even in the community, which I'm a huge part of.

 

I live life pretty full throttle. I always say that when I get to heaven, I just want to be out of breath. The way Erma Bombeck says it is... I just have to tell you, she says, "When I stand before God, at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left and I could say I used everything you gave me." 

 

I just love that. That's how I want to live. And I realized that I have a high capacity and I'm full throttle. And so I tend to say yes to more things than others would. And there's certainly been times when David's had to kind of pull me back a little bit and give me a reality check and say, Hey, we need to simmer down, or we need to slow our roll on this. And we had to reevaluate my schedule and ask, you know, is this in fact the best yes, for this season in our lives? I know you love women's groups, but is this the best yes for right now? I know you love tennis, but for right now, is this the best yes?

 

There's a lot of things that I had to say no during those seasons. I know this sounds silly, but one of the things I had to give up was sleep. And I know that every mom does. I get that. I am not a morning person at all. I like to stay up past midnight and sleep the last possible minute. 

 

But I got to a point where I knew that I only have so many hours in a day. And if I want to attend to my family when they're available, and I still also have this conflict of what, you know, tension of things that I want to get done I had to get up early to do those things that I wanted to do so that it didn't take up family time. 

 

Or let's say if I wanted to spend time during the day doing something fun with friends or whatever I want to do, I needed to get up early to make sure that dinner was still made or the sheets were washed, or whatever needed to be done that day, I had to get up early to make sure that it wasn't sacrificing. Just because I wanted to go out and be with my friends, I'm not just, oh, there it goes all the family responsibilities. You know, so sleep was one. I don't know if that makes sense but that was a big one for me. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:23:44] Yeah, definitely changing your natural preference to be a night owl. And did any of this change or evolve from the time that you had your first to your eighth child?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, absolutely. I would hope that with time and experience came one stone, you know, and still continues to come. But there are times where I have been incredibly stubborn. It took me a little longer to get to a place of surrender, to say, no, I can't do this right now or no, this is not the season. 

 

And over the years, my perspective has changed greatly. I think back to reading my journal entries when I just had one child and I just thought, "Oh my goodness, this is exhausting. How can I do this?" And now looking back, having eight and looking at that, my perspective has changed so greatly. 

 

But also as I'm learning and growing and I learned about the temperaments and love languages and my kids' emotional needs and really started studying my kids. I was able to let go of some things a little bit easier and not resist it so much. For instance, I used to think I needed to give them all a certain amount of quality time and I needed to give them all the different love languages. And I realized that that's not the case.

 

[00:24:50] I mean, we don't treat them as if everything is fair. We joke about it but we say fair is just a place where you go to get cotton candy. And it's true though. They don't all need the same amount of quality time. They don't all need the same gifts. They don't all need the same amount of physical touch. I mean, we have one daughter that really can't stand physical touch. We call her PT for short, just the personal physical touch because she doesn't like it. And their needs are going to vary from child to child. And once I understood that, it was just a huge relief for me.

 

Another thing that had to evolve and that I was able to grow into was humbling myself and really realizing that I'm not the only one that can give them the direction and the love and the affirmation that they need. They're going to have other people like coaches and Young Life leaders and small group leaders and FCA leaders and on and on and on that can pour into them in ways that I can't do it. 

 

I realized, yes, I'm their parent, but I'm not the only one that's going to raise them and lead them and disciple them and nurture them. Because it really, especially with the big family, it really does take a village. And there's not as much pressure on me because I realized that God has raised up and equipped other people to reach them in ways that I never can. So it's actually been really free.

 

Laura Dugger: [00:25:57] I love that. I think that's a great word of encouragement for everyone. You have the benefit of having older children who have launched well while you're simultaneously still in the trenches with your younger kids. So what can you see in your older kids now that has paid off from the intentional parenting that you and your husband did when they were young?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, man, this is a great, great question. It is our desire to parent with a long-term goal in sight. You know, we don't want to parent for the here and now, we want to have a long-term vision. Not what's gonna give them happiness right now, but what's gonna give them long-term gratification later. 

 

The tricky thing about parenting is, though, you don't always know if what you're doing is going to work or how they're going to turn out until, you know, sometimes it's too late. Or sometimes you don't know how they turn out until they actually turn out when they're grown.

 

There have been a lot of times that I have felt alone in my parenting journey. And I've complained to David and just said, You know, no one gets it. Because most of our friends that had kids when we first had kids had one kid, maybe two kids, the most three, and then they stopped. And we kept having children. 

 

And then our friends that have college-aged kids like we do, they're either empty nesters or they're really close to it. And all of them that have like two or three children, for the most part, they're in the same stage of life. Their kids are in the same season. Like they both are in high school or both are in middle school. And, you know, we have kids in elementary school, middle school, high school, and even college. 

 

[00:27:22] And it wasn't until this summer that I realized, to get back to your question, what a gift that this is, and that it's a unique perspective that we have that not a lot of parents can receive or have. For instance, I went to UGA this summer with my oldest son for his orientation and I witnessed parents sitting in classes at orientation for their children while their children slept in. 

 

I witnessed a mom trying to get handouts for her son, because our son didn't want to come to his orientation. The professors were telling parents, it was so funny, he's like, "Back off. Stop taking pictures of these slides because you're not going to school in the fall. Your kids are." The parents who are saying, "Hey," to the kids, "Get off Snapchat. Start taking pictures of these slides because your parents are not going to be here in the fall with you." It was so eye-opening and it was so mind-boggling at the same time to me. 

 

My son, you know, over the course of those couple of days, Maxton, he told me about kids that couldn't get their ID taken by themselves or get their meal plans purchased without their parents there helping them. And probably the sweetest gift I had that weekend that I was able to receive was I had the privilege of sitting with him at dinner before I headed back home and he said to me, he said, "Mom, I didn't appreciate it when I was younger, but thank you. Thank you. Thank you for teaching me how to do things for myself when I was at home so that I'll know how to do things now that I'm on my own."

 

He said, "You know, I look around and it blows my mind how these kids can't do anything for themselves. And I'm so, so, so glad I am. And I can." And I just sat there and I thought, that is such a gift to me because we're able to see the fruits of our labor while I still have young children at home. And it was like this affirmation that, hey, just keep doing what you're doing. 

 

We live in a very affluent area, entitlement is rampant. It's just prevalent everywhere we go. And I've thought a lot about entitlement. My husband and I talk a lot about it. We believe that entitlement is not just how much do you give to our children, but equally is how much we do for our children. The more we do for them, the less they want to do for themselves. 

 

We've always believed the philosophy that just because we can provide or give doesn't mean we should. So we've made them work, we've made them do really hard chores, make them pay for a lot of their own things. And just seeing how that has played out with our oldest son in college has been such an affirmation with still having the younger kids at home just saying yeah, keep doing what you're doing. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:29:46] So as you look back when they were younger, would you have considered yourselves in the category of strict parents? 

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Yes. I would say that when they were younger, we were incredibly strict. The beauty of that is the more strict and consistent you can be when they're younger, the more hands-off you can be when they're a little bit older. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:30:06] That's encouraging. So it sounds like all of the hard work is worth it. Is that right?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Yes, it's worth it. Some days more so than others.

 

Laura Dugger: [00:30:14] Well, and now with your older kids, what do they say are some of the best lessons that you and your husband taught them?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: We've talked about this with the older four kids on a regular basis. And matter of fact, the day before Maxim left for college, we took them out to lunch, and we asked him, we said, "Hey, what advice do you have for us with the younger seven?" And the look on his face was just priceless. Like, what do you mean? 

 

We just said, "Hey, you know, you're done. You're on your own now. Is there any advice that you can say for the younger children? Things that you liked, things that you didn't like, things that worked, things that didn't...?" Older four would say that we've encouraged their success, but we fully embrace their failure. Being hands off, so that they could fail as much as possible while they're still in the home. 

 

We have this mantra, don't bail, let them fail, because we want them to learn the lessons at home, rather than protecting them all along the way and then all of a sudden, they have their first failure at college. So we did want to encourage them to experience failure while they're still at home. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:31:08] What did some of those failures look like? 

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Anything from forgetting their uniform on game day, and not rushing up there to bring them to uniform. Or they all have to make their own lunches from kindergarten on. And if they forgot their lunch, you know what, I know you don't love buying lunch, but there's still food there, you're not going to go starving. 

 

Some of them it was bigger failures. Most recently my daughter had a pretty bad car accident and we didn't rush in and buy her a brand new car. And we didn't say, "Oh, well, you understand accidents happen?" Yes, we do understand that but there's still a consequence to everything. So when our insurance skyrocketed, she has to pay that difference. So those types of failures within the home where there's still a consequence to their failures so that they can learn.

 

Laura Dugger: [00:31:50] So you let them experience the natural consequences with it?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Absolutely. We try to at least. That's always our goal, the natural consequence. Because everything they do... everything we do is a choice. And it has its consequences and it has its pros and cons. So to learn that early on, we think the better. 

 

Laura Dugger: Definitely. 

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: It's interesting. They all would say that they have appreciated how much we have taught them to be independent and responsible and can advocate for themselves. Like, we're not going to go to their teachers. We're not going to go to their coaches. We're going to let them work it out.

 

You don't agree with this grade or you think it's subjective, like you talk to them. I remember my daughter was in the third grade, and she came home and she said, "Oh, my goodness, I left my homework at my desk. Would you please email my teacher and tell her that I'll get there early and I'll do it in the morning." And I said, "Oh, absolutely, I will."

 

And all the other kids were like, "You're gonna email her?" So I sat down to my computer and I said, "Dear Miss Pillman, I just want you to know that Mary Madden left her homework on her desk, and she wanted to make you aware of it. And I'd love for you to punish her however you see fit. Thank you so much. Elizabeth." And she was like, "Mom." 

 

But you know what, the teachers appreciate that. It's not like we're going to step in and we're going to swoop in and rescue every single time. But they just all say that they feel so much more competent than so many of their peers, and they're really appreciative of that. 

 

[00:33:03] Our second is heading off to UGA in the fall as well and he recently told me, he said, "Mom, you're not gonna believe this but I'm so grateful that I know how to do laundry. None of my friends know how to do it." I really just had to laugh, because here he is, this 18-year-old boy and he's been doing it since he was eight. They all fought us on it when they were learning to do laundry. 

 

We have a little rule in our home that says, when you turn eight, you're no longer a consumer, but a contributor. And when they turn eight and they have to contribute, one of the things that they have to do is their laundry. So they all would dread their eighth birthday. They're like, No. But now he's so grateful that he knows how to do it. He knows how to do it well. He's had lots of years of practice.

 

There's so many new things that you have to experience when you go off to college. So many first, so many unknowns. You have a lot of things that you're trying to navigate and figure out and laundry is not something new to him. It's not something new to any of them. It's just something they've always done. And that's just one less thing for them to worry about. 

 

But the last thing I would say, my daughter recently said this to me, is how grateful she is for the manners that we've taught them. And she said really just showing them how to treat other people. And the reason she said this, I thought it was interesting, is because at school she sees the drastic difference in how people treat their peers, how they speak to their teachers, and even how they speak to their family. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:34:21] I just want to say thank you to someone who left this personal review and five-star rating on iTunes. Farmerswife402 says, "I love how their various guests talk on a bunch of different topics, and you will leave feeling refreshed and a little bit wiser." Thanks so much for taking the time to leave a review. 

 

To go back and highlight a few of those things, I love that paradigm shift. They're not consumers, they're contributors. So they did their own laundry. What are a few other practical examples of what they were expected to do?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Their chores, picked it up big time. Before it was more, you know, like feeding the dog and watering the plants and some of the more simple things. But then it's washing your own sheets and making your own bed. And I don't just mean daily. But I mean, you know, starting from scratch where it's a little bit harder to make.

 

They also start helping with dinner. Now it doesn't mean that they cook the whole dinner, but they might make the banana bread, or they might cut the fruit salad or something that's a portion of it. So things like that that contribute to the family and help me and help others, you know.

 

Laura Dugger: [00:35:22] And I think you painted a realistic picture that it didn't go unopposed. There may have been whining or fighting about it. In the long run they appreciated it.

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, absolutely. I mean, none of us really want more work put on our plate. I remember the first time my son was nine made his first meal. And part of making his own meal was like, "Okay, what are you going to make? Now just making the meal doesn't mean the food is here. We have to go to the grocery store.

 

It was so funny he wanted to make taco salad. So I said, "Well, we're gonna go to the produce section." And he's like, "What's the produce?" You know, he had no idea. And I said, "Well, because you don't have to buy the groceries." So we showed him all the different types of lettuce. And okay, well now what's on sale? And what can feed our family? And how much do we need to buy? 

 

He complained the whole way. "How long is this going to take?" But the look on his face when he had finished making that meal for 10 people, you realize not many nine-year-olds can cook for 10 people. And I actually think at the time my mother-in-law was living with us. And it was 11. And the satisfaction that he had. "Wow, I did this."

 

And the other thing I would add about chores is never give a chore to a child that you don't adequately train them how to do. It doesn't mean they're gonna do it perfect. But you know, you can't just say, "Go clean the bathroom." "What do I need to do?" So you adequately train them so that they're not met with frustration when you come back and say, "What did you do in here?" But instead, you can go, "Okay, you did a great job. Now next time, we're going to actually clean around the toilet." And just add build on to it each time. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:36:45] That reminds me of something my husband always says, that we either can go from easy to hard or hard to easy. So maybe the hard part is taking the time adequately training them, but it pays off.

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh. I mean, that's why most moms say, "It's just easier for me to do it myself." And I understand that it's easier. But is it the most beneficial thing? That's the question. I mean, sure, it's easier for me to do it. 

 

I do want to add one more thing about chores. When they're doing something, to really just encourage them as they're doing it instead of leaving them with "Oh, you missed this spot," or, "Oh, I can't believe you did this." But just to encourage them. Because, you know, none of us want to do a job that someone's complaining the whole time you did it wrong. You just want to go, "Fine. You do it then. If that's the way you want it, then you do it." But just to encourage them and then say, "Hey, maybe next time we'll try it this way and see how that turns out." 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:37:36] Well, before we hit record today, you had mentioned in previous conversation that you often see younger moms battling shame and guilt. And you've even talked about it here. That just because we can do or provide or give something doesn't mean that we should. So how do you recommend we discern the difference? 

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, absolutely. I certainly have seen this with younger moms. But honestly, all women, you know, in some form or fashion struggle with guilt or shame. "We aren't doing enough" or "we aren't good enough," or we messed up," or "we were short with our kids," or "we didn't give them enough or provide them enough or do enough for them." Or to the other extreme, "we gave them too much. We provided them with too much. We did too much." Whatever it might be, there's a lot of shame and guilt associated with it when we're second-guessing and wondering, did we do the right thing?

 

I would say the key is prayer. It really is. So often we do things out of rote memory or just busyness or a checklist to get us through our day. I guess the question I would ask is like, how often do we really just pause and pray and ask the Lord? And then discern, what does He have for us and what does He have for our children? 

 

I think sometimes parenting tends to be a herd mentality, and we just go along with the cultural drift of society. It shouldn't be because we're all unique, and so are our children. And so our parenting should reflect that. 

 

I've talked to so many young married girls that will emphatically tell me, you know, "Oh, I'm gonna have two kids," or "I'm gonna live in the city," or "no, I'm staying home with my kids. I'm not going to work." And then I've had some moms say, "I'm gonna homeschool all 12 years, every single one." Or I've had moms say, "I will never do public school." I've had a mom tell me, "I will never work outside the home. Ever."

 

[00:39:20] The offering that I would have for them and to them is, instead of dictating what your life will be like to the Lord, pause and pray and ask Him, what does He want? What does He have for us? You know, maybe you want two kids, but He's asking you for four. Maybe you wanted to homeschool out of fear and protection of your kids but He's asking you to grow your faith and grow your children's faith by putting them in public school.

 

Maybe He wants you to work. Maybe He wants you to quit your job. You know, the point is that I don't have the answer. But the point is that we just need to pause long enough to ask the Lord what does He require of us. And just sit in stillness long enough to listen and to see what He has to say.

 

I did a Bible study a number of years ago called Go and Tell No One and it was super fascinating to me. I never realized how many times in Scripture Jesus would heal someone and then He would say, Go and Tell No One. I would want to be telling everybody, "Oh, my goodness, look, I got healed." And He would say, No, go and tell no one. 

 

And then this study, she often referenced Luke 5. And if I can share that, it says, "Yet the news about Him spread all the more so that the crowds of people came to hear Him and to be healed of their sicknesses. But Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed." And I'm sure He could have stood outside and heal people all day long, much like our to-do list, the line would have been never-ending. But what He did was He prioritized the important over the urgent. 

 

We get so caught up in whatever's right in front of us, like the urgent needs or the request of others, or even sometimes ourselves that we place on ourselves that we often miss the long-term goal of what's most important. And if we're pausing and we're sitting with Jesus and asking Him, "Hey, what is it you want?" Then we can rest in knowing that we're doing exactly what we should be doing with no guilt or shame. 

 

Sometimes what He asked us is countercultural, and you know, people think you're crazy. But at the end of the day, you can lay your head on your pillow at night, and you just have complete peace knowing that you're staying in your lane doing exactly what you're called to do. 

 

Laura Dugger: [00:41:17] I think that you're pointing out that Jesus is big-picture-minded. So as parents, how do you recommend that we stay big-picture-minded too instead of getting bogged down in our repetitive day today?

 

Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, goodness, I'm super passionate about this. I don't know if you've ever heard the saying. But if you don't know where you're going, you're liable to end up somewhere else. The Bible says it this way: without a vision, the people perish. And it also says things like, "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

 

And that right there is visionary parenting. It has a long-term goal. I'm a big fan of John Roseman. He's a big advocate of this. He says that we should spend time thinking about what kind of adults we want to raise, long term—when they're 30 or so. And then we ask ourselves, is my daily parenting my daily disciplining with that long-term goal in sight?

 

Laura Dugger: [00:42:07] I think that's a great takeaway to ask ourselves that question.

 

Hey, everyone, we did it again. Just like last week's interview, I found myself so caught up in Elizabeth's teaching that I totally lost track of time. So after recording, we decided to split this episode into two parts as well. Please join us tomorrow as Elizabeth helps us apply all this knowledge to obediently respond to God's stirring in our own lives.

 

One more thing before you go, have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

 

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

 

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. 

 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. 

 

[00:44:23] If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. 

 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So are you ready to get started?

 

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. 

 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.

 

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.