71 Deep Dive into the Enneagram with Your Enneagram Coach, Beth McCord

71. Deep Dive into the Enneagram with Your Enneagram Coach, Beth McCord

 

**Transcription Below**

 

Psalm 139:13+14 (NIV) “For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb, I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well."

 

Beth McCord is the founder of Your Enneagram Coach. She has been an Enneagram speaker, coach and teacher for over 15 years. Beth is passionate about coming alongside individuals and helping them re-write their story, allowing them to see that lasting change, meaningful relationships, and a life of deep purpose is possible. This passion is what drove her to create this community, a safe place for individuals to explore the Enneagram. Beth is now leading the industry in simplifying the deep truths of the Enneagram from a Biblical perspective. Beth's passion is to make the Enneagram accessible for everyone, anywhere, so they can experience the transformation they long for. This includes one-on-one coaching, in-person events and workshops and online courses. She also offers training and support for those interested in becoming an Enneagram coach. At home, Beth's favorite hobbies are studying and producing helpful Enneagram resources, fly fishing, and driving through the beautiful hillsides of Tennessee with her family. Beth lives outside of Nashville and has been married to her best friend, Jeff, for 22 years (Type 6, Loyal Guardian). They have two teenage children (a Type 6, Loyal Guardian and a Type 2, Supportive Advisor). Combining the gospel and the Enneagram has been instrumental in Beth and Jeff's marriage and parenting.

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Beth is offering The Savvy Sauce listeners $10 off either Discovering You or Exploring You when  you use the code: 10OFF.  The Discovering You course is also INSIDE Exploring You so we encourage that option!

 

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription**

 

[00:00:00] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

 

[00:00:17] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: I want to say thank you to our sponsor, Peoria Christian School. They are raising a generation of 21st-century Christian leaders right here in central Illinois. Visit their website at peoriachristian.org. Thanks for your sponsorship. 

 

I am just thrilled to welcome back a returning guest, Beth McCord. Beth is an Enneagram coach and she's returning today to take a deeper dive into a few more nuances of the Enneagram. I hope this episode helps you understand yourself and others in your life a little bit better. 

 

Here's our chat. 

 

Welcome back to the Savvy Sauce, Beth. 

 

Beth McCord: Yeah, thanks for having me. 

 

Laura Dugger: Well, if anybody missed our previous episode, will you share a bit about yourself and your work? 

 

Beth McCord: Yes. My name is Beth McCord. I live in Nashville, Tennessee. Been married for 24 years to my husband, Jeff. We have 2 kids, a 20-year-old son and an 18-year-old daughter. I have been studying the Enneagram for about 17, 18 years now. [00:01:28] 

 

But as a good old 9, type 9, for those that have learned about the Enneagram, I hid most of the time and maybe shared it with a few people along the way until I really felt God waking me up and calling me out to do what I'm doing now, which is a business called Your Enneagram Coach, where I coach others, but also teach others how to become Enneagram coaches, so that others can be free from self-condemnation, fear, and shame, and instead experience and know Christ's unconditional love, forgiveness, and freedom that He offers us. 

 

Laura Dugger: Well, I know I'm one of many who are very grateful that you stepped out into the light to do all of that. In a previous episode, we did a rundown of all the numbers and personalities. So listeners should definitely start there. But now if you've already finished that episode, Beth, you had mentioned that each number can be in a healthy or unhealthy state. 

 

Beth McCord: Yes. 

 

Laura Dugger: So now that we know the background of each number, will you teach us more about lines and how each number appears when the person is both in a healthy and unhealthy place? [00:02:37] 

 

Beth McCord: Yeah. So when someone looks at the symbol, and I'm sure you'll have it in your show notes, there is a 9-pointed geometric figure. So it looks like a 9-pointed star, basically. Each personality type is connected to 2 other personality types with lines. 

 

You can think of these lines as paths: paths of stress, paths of growing. So I'm a type 9, and I am connected to both 3 and 6. So I can go to both the healthy side of 3 and 6, and all the way down to the unhealthy of 3 and 6, and anywhere in between. 

 

But what I teach in my Discovering You course, which is the best place to start, is that you typically move towards one of them when you're under stress, and you move to it in a very specific way. And this is what you're going to act like around most people when you're under stress. 

 

And then there's the other number where when you start to really grow, you're going to move towards the healthy attributes of that number. Now, again, you can utilize both healthy all the way to unhealthy on both. [00:03:38] But there's a little bit more complexity to that that I teach the people that want to be coaches and when people go through my Exploring You course. I go into that in much more detail. 

 

But just for now the under stress someone like me who's easygoing, laid-back, like everything's gonna be fine, well, when I become stressed I move to the average to the unhealthy parts of 6 now. That doesn't mean I become a 6 but I take on the attributes, and all of a sudden that easy-going laid-back positive person becomes irritable, testy, worried, anxious, my mind's racing. I'm just not that pleasant to be around. Let's just say. 

 

But the great thing about it is now that I know that this is what I do and why I do it, not only can I be more aware of, Oh, I'm under stress right now, my family can know it as well. We can all kind of go, Hey, is everything okay? Like, is there anything you need? They don't have to take it so personally. And I can actually see that maybe I'm drowning and I need help versus, why are you acting that way? So it can be really beneficial. [00:04:37] 

 

But when I'm growing, us 9s who kind of think we don't matter, we don't have much to offer, if I move towards the healthy attributes of type 3, I'll learn to have self-confidence, to assert myself, to set goals, and to pursue the calling that God has set out for me. So then when my family sees that, let's say for them doing that is like breathing air, they know for me, that's really hard.

 

So now they know how to cheer me on because for me, that's growth. So that's what we want to do with our spouses, our friends, our children is to know them well enough to know how to lift them up in grace and forgiveness and support when they're not doing well, but also then how to cheer them on when they're growing, because growth is so, so hard. 

 

Laura Dugger: That's so helpful to have examples like that. Do you mind sharing what those lines and illustrations would look like? 

 

Beth McCord: Absolutely, yeah. The Type 1, when they're under stress, they're going to take on attributes of the average to unhealthy parts of 4, where they're going to turn this resentment, anger that they have of wanting everything to be perfect inward, and they can become depressed and kind of withdrawn and feel like people don't understand them. [00:05:50] 

 

When the Type 1 is growing, they're going to move to the healthy attributes of the Type 7, where this Type 1 who everything must be perfect and their inner critic is beating them up inside all of a sudden experiences a child-likeness, grace, freedom, and fun. 

 

The Type 2, when they're under stress, they're going to move to the average, the unhealthy parts of 8, where they're going to become more demanding, controlling, insistent, and that other people do what they say. Now, when they're doing really well, they're going to move to the healthy side of Type 4, where the 2 who's always focusing on everyone else finally realized that they have to care for themselves in order to truly give to others in a way that's selfless. So we want the 4s to understand their emotions and their needs and to take good care of themselves. 

 

The 3, when the 3 is under stress, they're going to move to the average unhealthy parts of 9, where this driven 3 suddenly becomes kind of apathetic, lazy, withdrawn. And they kind of numb out with, it could be video games, shopping, eating, you name it, whatever it is for them, some way for them to check out. [00:07:00] 

 

For the 3 to grow, we want them to move to the healthy side of 6, where it's no longer all about me, look at me, it's now about us. And it's about helping us become the best that we can be. 

 

The Type 4, when they're under stress, they're going to move to the average, the unhealthy parts of 2, where they're going to start feeling possessive of others. But at the same time, what you'll see is they'll do kind of a push-pull. They will see that others aren't as ideal as they thought. So they'll start pushing them away, but they get really afraid that they push them too far and they start to become 2-ish where they become possessive and clingy and manipulative to bring that relationship back to them. And so you'll see this push and pull dynamic. 

 

But when a 4 is doing really well, they're going to move to the healthy side of Type 1, where they're going to become grounded and principled and do more procedures to do what's right. And they'll find that actually sets them free. 

 

The Type 5, when they're under stress, they're going to move to the average, the unhealthy parts of 7. [00:08:01] So the 5 can isolate themselves for a long time and then they kind of come out into the world and around people and become very impulsive, take on new projects impulsively, I guess. They can become scattered, kind of hyperactive. 

 

But when a 5 is healthy, they're going to move to the healthy parts of 8. Where the 5 typically feels like they don't have enough knowledge to competently move forward in something, they move towards that healthy space of 8 and they competently move forward in something like, I have enough information to do this. 

 

The6, when they're under stress, they're going to move to the average, the unhealthy parts of 3, where they're going to become a little bit more arrogant. The arrogancy here is more like, I told you guys all the hundred things that could go wrong and you didn't listen to me and therefore this is happening. So that kind of arrogancy. 

 

But they also become concerned about failure. And so they probably won't take on new projects if failure is a possibility. And they do become more concerned about their image and what people think of them. [00:09:04] 

 

Now when a 6 is doing really well, this racing mind of a 6 of all worst-case possibilities slows down, gets more calm, and is still operating and going for it, but it's at a much more peaceful speed and rate so they can enjoy life more. 

 

Now the 7s, when they're struggling and under stress, they're going to move to the average, the unhealthy parts of 1, where they're going to become more critical, perfectionistic, and demand others do what is right. When a 7 is growing, they're going to move to the healthy parts of Type 5, where instead of always fleeing outward to adventure and fun. They're going to come inward and to focus on their internal world and to take care of the things that need to be taken care of internally. 

 

Now when an 8 is struggling, they're going to move to the average to unhealthy parts of 5. And this is where they all of a sudden get isolated because they're on the defense and they're stressed. [00:10:04] So they pull back and isolate and gain more knowledge to be on the offense. 

 

Now, when an 8 is doing really well, they're that snowplow I was talking about, where they're plowing paths for people. So they see everyone has needs, like a 2, they're moving to the healthy part of 2, and they see people's needs, but they tell everyone, hey, get behind me, I will pave the path for you. And they do an excellent job. 

 

Then last but not least, as 9s, and I kind of said this, when we're under stress, we become worried, anxious, testy. And then when we're growing, we become assertive, confident, and develop ourselves. And there you go. 

 

Laura Dugger: Man, you are so succinct. That was so impressive. 

 

And now a brief message from our sponsor. 

 

Sponsor: This sponsor is particularly special to our editor, Natalie, because this is the school where her husband teaches and her children attend. Peoria Christian School grades pre-K through 12 offers a Christ-centered, award-winning education for students. They believe eternity matters, and so they want to share the importance of knowing the Lord personally. [00:11:11] 

 

PCS supports the Christian home and church by teaching from a biblical worldview. Their caring faculty and staff infuses God's truths through every area of the day, not just in daily Bible classes or in weekly chapels. 

 

Peoria Christian students engage in active learning through STEAM, bring your own device in high school, and so much more. The Peoria Christian Elementary School was named a 2017 National Blue Ribbon School of Excellence, and the high school was named a 2018 National Blue Ribbon Exemplary High Performing School. 

 

PCS students grow in every aspect through their safe environment as teachers share their faith throughout the day. It is another place where your student hears and sees how to live with a Christ-like attitude and develop biblically-based character. The students are academically challenged and spiritually equipped for the next phase of life as lifelong learners. 

 

Peoria Christian School is raising a generation of 21st-century Christian leaders. Visit their website at peoriachristian.org and schedule a campus tour today. Thanks for your sponsorship. [00:12:18] 

 

Laura Dugger: Each number has a wing. So will you describe each number's wings and even give an example of what each may look like? 

 

Beth McCord: Sure. The wings are the 2 numbers on either side of your main type. For instance, the Type 1, they have wings of 9 and 2, not any of the other numbers. The wings are just directly next to your main type. Think of this as salt and pepper. So if you are a filet mignon, beautiful filet mignon, we want to season your steak in a way that enhances or draws out your best attributes. And that's what we want our wings to do. 

 

So we access and utilize parts of the numbers next to us that can enhance us. At the same time, when we use those numbers in an unhealthy way, it's going to not help us. Think of that as overseasoning your steak and ruining it, you know. So we want to use those qualities of the types next to us in ways that really help us. [00:13:19] 

 

Now, typically people lean towards one number more than the other, but we use both of them to varying degrees. So there's no right and wrong, you should have more of this, less of that. It's more just what is. Me as a 9, my wings are 8 and 1. And it's good for me to learn what does it look like to use the 8 in a healthy way? What does it look like to use the 1 in a healthy way? And definitely, what does it look like when I'm using it in an unhealthy way? 

 

For me, as a 9, I lean more towards the type 8 in my everyday life and I lean towards 1 more in my work. So in work, I'm more detailed and I want things precise and crisp and clean. But in my everyday life, I use a lot of 8. I can be more assertive than most 9s. I can really get upset when there's an injustice. And that can be good or not so good, depending on how I'm using it. So I can kind of run through real quick all the things very briefly, obviously. [00:14:19] 

 

But the 1 with a 9 wing is the idealist. They tend to be a little bit more detached and analytical and withdrawn than the Type 1 with a 2 wing. They're going to be the advocate. And they're going to be a little bit warmer relationally, but they can also be critical and vocal and more controlling. 

 

So you're taking the main type... and they're not changing. Those core motivations we talked about in the other episode. It's that we're using that salt and pepper. We're either enhancing or maybe not, depending on how well we use it. 

 

Now, the type 2, their wings are one and 3. The 2 with a 1 wing is the servant. They tend to be more self-controlled with their emotions, objective, and serious. But the 2 with a 3 wing, they're more of a host or hostess and they're outgoing, they're sociable, self-assured, pretty dynamic, and they don't mind the spotlight. 

 

So the 3, they have wings 2 and 4. The 3 with a 2 wing is the star. They have great interpersonal skills, charming, likable, adaptable, engaging. The 3 with the 4 wing is the professional, and they're a little bit more pulled back, private, quiet, and they want more recognition. And they're gonna feel more emotions than the 3 with the 2 wing. [00:15:35] 

 

The 4, they have wings 3 and 5. The 4 with the 3 wing is the aristocrat and they have a more refined taste, emotionally, like vivid and extroverted, upbeat and goal oriented. The 4 with the 5 wing is called the bohemian. They have more intellectual depth and creativity, originality, introverted, and more isolated. 

 

The type 5 wings are 4 and 6. The 5 of the 4 wing is called the iconoclasts. They are more emotionally vibrant, creative, exuberant as a 5. They're still more of the withdrawn type, but they're going to show their creativity and emotions more. 

 

The 5 with the 6 wing is the problem solver. They are going to have a lot more intellectual depth and research. They tend to gravitate towards the sciences more. Then the 6 has wings 5 and 7. So the 6 of the 5 wing is called the defender. They're more organized, engaging with others, perceptual, and they want more knowledge and research. [00:16:44] The 6 with a 7 wing is called the buddy. They're very engaging, supportive, witty, sociable, and love to have a great time with others. 

 

Now, the 7 has the 6 and the 8 wing, so the 7 with the 6 wing is called the entertainer. They're more outgoing, creative, silly, playful. They do care more about what others think, tend to be much more loyal and committed, and they enjoy experiencing things with others. 

 

Now, the 7 with the 8 wing is called the realist. And they're going to be very assertive, confident, intense energy, very ambitious, quick minds, and they're not going to be as thoughtful of others as the 6 wing. So they almost look 8-ish. Actually, 7s with 8 wings and 8s with 7 wings have a really hard time figuring out which one is in the lead. 

 

The 8 has wings of 7 and 9. The 8 with a 7 wing is the Maverick, and they are much more blunt, intense, demanding, insistent that others do what they say, quick, and very assertive. The 8 with a 9 wing are much more steady, patient, compassionate, tender, soft-hearted. So they do hold their aggressive side until it's needed. [00:18:00] They're not going to overtly show it, but if it's needed, they have no problem doing what needs to be done. 

 

Then last but not least, the 9s, the 9 with a 1 wing, and the 8 wing. The 9 with a 1 wing is called the Dreamer. They're more idealistic, principled, cerebral, and they want justice and fairness and to do what's right. The 9 with an 8 wing, which is me, and it's a little... it's like 2 opposites together. You've got a person who's sociable, engaging, encouraging, expressive, independent. and assertive, but they also love the comforts that a 9 wants. And there's the wings. 

 

Laura Dugger: Okay. And the comforts that a 9 wants, could you give examples? 

 

Beth McCord: Oh yeah. Any kind of routine, comfy clothes, like I sit in a very comfy chair for work. We just love being comfortable. We don't want to basically be uncomfortable or stretch too far, which kind of goes in with the sloth of the 9. You know, sometimes you have to stretch yourselves and do things that we don't necessarily want to do. And it can be a good thing. [00:19:05] 

 

Laura Dugger: I am just so glad that you're an Enneagram coach because there are still so many levels to this personality tool. One more layer of the Enneagram is triads. What are triads and how do they help us better understand our personality? 

 

Beth McCord: The triads are the 3 centers of intelligence. You have the head or the thinking, the heart or emotions, and the gut, or like a gut instinct. The triads, kind of hence the name, there's 3 types in each of these 3 sections, which equals the 9 types. Each type has a dominant triad. Now we use all 3, but it has a dominant triad and a dominant instinctual center. 

 

The types 8s, 9s, and 1s are in the gut instinct triad and they have similar assets and liabilities surrounding their gut instincts. So, they have a knowing. You know, it's really hard with the gut instincts because, you know, we talk about in the English language, well, I thought about this or I feel this. But with the gut instinct, it's like, uh, I don't really know what to tell you. I just have a gut instinct. Like there's not really language around it. [00:20:23] 

 

So the 8s are the gut triad. Their emotional imbalance or struggle has to do with anger. Now the 9s and the ones will say, "What? I'm not angry. I don't have anger." Well, the 9 suppress their anger because it's uncomfortable, and then the 1s repress it and it comes out sideways as criticism and judgmentalness because being angry would be being bad. 

 

So what happens is all 3 of these want justice. The 8s will show their anger viscerally and quickly. If they see an injustice, you're going to know about it immediately. It's not ready, aim, fire. It's fire. So it's kind of like a Diet Coke that you put a Mento in and then it's just boosh. It's really fast and erupts. 

 

The 9 is like a Diet Coke that has a lid on it and people in the world and circumstances are shaking it up and there's all this tension built up inside. The 9 is like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to erupt and I can't, so I have to like somehow get away. So we will withdraw, numb out, get away because we're trying to calm that down because we're so afraid we're going to explode in some form or fashion and hurt our relationships. [00:21:26] And sometimes we do explode, and then it calms down pretty quickly. But that's pretty rare. 

 

Then the ones is like a Diet Coke with the lid cap slightly off, but still on. And when things are shaking it up, like the imperfections of the world, it spews outward with criticism and nitpickiness. So that's the gut triad. 

 

The heart triad with the feelings is the 2s, 3s, and 4s. They struggle with shame and a desire for a very specific identity. So the 2s are feeling everyone's feelings and needs. They struggle with feeling rejected. So they want to know people's needs and feelings so that they can find the one person that's in most need and come through for them with some sort of help so that they can overcome the feeling of rejection by being wanted and needed. 

 

The 3s, they struggle with shame and thinking that they have no value or worth because they didn't accomplish enough. Or what do people think? So they overcome this with a certain image of being the most successful and admirable person. [00:22:30] 

 

Then the 4s, they struggle with shame and thinking that there's something defective and flawed in them. And so they want to overcome this by having the most authentic, special, unique image that others are drawn to and will love. 

 

Then the last category, the last triad is the thinking. And this is 5, 6, and 7s. They struggle with anxiety and they desire security. Now the 5's anxiety is that they feel that they don't know enough information to go out in the world and to do. So they think they have to gather a bunch of information and they think that information is going to bring them security, but it doesn't because it's the never-ending process, right? There's never enough information. So they'll constantly feel this anxiety until they stop and realize they have enough to move forward. 

 

The 6s struggle with anxiety from a possible worst-case scenario, predictability mindset. They're scanning the horizon for what could go wrong. And that creates your typical anxiety that we think of. They think that if they can get enough knowledge and advice and wisdom from outside resources, that they'll have the right decisions to make, which will ensure their security. [00:23:45] But as we all know, we don't know what's going to happen and there's a plethora of possibilities. And so there's never that security if we rely just on ourselves. 

 

The 7s struggle with anxiety from an internal perspective. They do have internal anxieties and fears, but that is painful for them and they don't want any pain or internal conflict happening anxiety. So they go out into the world to find stimulation, excitement, fun, because that to them brings them a sense of security. 

 

But, as we know, then if you don't deal with the inner parts of us, it can build and build and build and actually harm them more. So those are the triads.

 

Laura Dugger: Those are so interesting, too, because then is there a more positive solution with.. kind of with all of them, but let's start with the 9. When the Diet Coke, you said it's like it's been shaken all day, instead of erupting, what is the best way for them? [00:24:47] 

 

Beth McCord: Absolutely. Yeah. So like for myself, it's taken a long time to kind of at least figure it out, but that's no surprise as a 9. It's like we live in a fog and it takes me a long time to figure things out. But once I do, I'm like, "Oh, this makes sense." But for me, I never really realized that I was feeling this much tension.

 

Like with my family, my husband and daughter and son, they can kind of be talking and bantering back and forth and it might be a playful tension for them. But for me, it feels horrible. I feel all shooken up inside. What are they getting in conflict? Are they upset with one another? Is everyone okay? Is someone's feelings hurt? Like I'm constantly thinking all of this tension stuff. And I just want to say, Everyone, stop, like, just speak nicely. And they're thinking, we're just having fun, you know, but to me, it's not fun. 

 

So with that kind of being shooken up inside, whether it's playful or real tension or real conflict, I can either shut down or explode. But what I have to now recognize is the feeling, the sensation this has. And it really does feel like that pressure and I typically will withdraw or retreat or shut down in fear that I can't fix it, or if I try to fix it, or if I say something, I'll bring more harm to the relationship or bring more tension or conflict. [00:26:07] So I might shut down or I might physically get up and leave. Well, that doesn't necessarily help either. 

 

So by letting my family know how it feels in me and what's going on and verbalizing that, not in a demanding way, but in a way of asking, "Hey, this is kind of hard for me. And if you guys want to continue this, because I can see that you're actually having fun, it just doesn't feel fun to me, I'm happy to go, you know, watch TV in the other room or put earbuds in or something like that. But otherwise, it'd be awesome if we can change how we're talking so that it doesn't feel so, you know, sarcastic or tension for me. That's sometimes how I have to navigate it. Sometimes it's just me. 

 

For instance, here's a great example. When my kids were little, my husband would wrestle with them on the floor and tickle them. They're laughing and hollering. Well, my 9 internal world just was like, Please stop. You know, this is too much. But my eyes could see this is a beautiful thing. This is great. So I recognize in those situations, that's something I have to deal with. I don't have to control others, you know. [00:27:14] 

 

So that's kind of how someone can start to work with their own particular strengths and weaknesses. But at the same time, it's a strength that I have this ability because if I might feel tension in a room that no one else is realizing is there, and I might be able to bring understanding where no one else can, because I can feel it and I can sense it and I know what others need, but will I speak up is the thing. And as a 9, to do it in a healthy way is really important. 

 

Laura Dugger: I'm so curious with the 7, because as a 7, I think it's very easy for me to be in denial. So I was thinking, huh, internal anxiety. I can't think of how to even recognize that. Or what would you recommend as a healthy way to process that if it's not seeking external stimulation? 

 

Beth McCord: So for 7s, anything that is negative, painful, not positive, productive, you know, like all of those things drive us up and crazy and they don't want to sit there. They don't want to talk about it or deal with it. Like, let's just move on. Let's think of it positive. Let's reframe. Let's find a new solution. [00:28:18] 

 

But sometimes there are things that really do need to be thought through or dealt with. And a big one would be death and sorrow and grief. Not only should they spend the time to truly grieve and process, but to not force others to get over it quickly, because it would be uncomfortable for a 7 to allow someone to really go there with them in the presence, because they don't know what to do with it. You know, it's scary. It's painful. It's hard. It's everything that they fear. 

 

Now, it doesn't mean that the 7 is insensitive or that they don't care. They just don't know what to do with that hard space. So, for them, it's taking baby steps and first being in the present moment and recognizing how their personality is screaming at them to think positive and reframe, oh, it's going to be great. 

 

A big one that Christians do when someone dies is, well, at least they're in a better place. You know, it's like, okay, that doesn't help the person who just lost their husband or their child. But to be there with them and to empathize and to feel their sorrow, just like Christ did with others really shows a Christ-like demonstration. [00:29:28] And it is hard, and it is painful, but that is the better place to be. 

 

Now, we love 7s because you do bring the positive, so we do need that, but not when it's inappropriate or unwarranted. Does that make sense? 

 

Laura Dugger: That totally makes sense. And let's just touch on one other of the triads. Let's do a 2. What would that healthy process look like for them? 

 

Beth McCord: So when a 2s walk into a room, they're going to instantly know the feelings of the room and they're going to know who has the most need, whether emotionally or physically. The personality is going to be insistent that they come through, one, because if they don't come through, they're being selfish and bad and they will be then unloved, which is their greatest fear. 

 

So then the personality is convincing them that they must insert their help with that person, one, so they can get appreciation and gratitude and they can overcome this sensation of being rejected and unlovable. [00:30:27] 

 

For the 2s, we would want them to recognize they are not called to save, preserve, and protect the world. That is God's responsibility. And when they enter a room and they see that there are needs, they have to first align their heart with God in, one, recognizing what are their needs. And have they taken care of themselves enough to give of themselves from a selfless standpoint versus strings attached of, oh, I hope they say thank you, or I'm going to need them to say thank you? I need them to show me my value in helping. 

 

And so if they're not quite there, for them to just pull back and trust and pray for the person and realize, It is not ultimately my responsibility to help and come through for that person. Christ knows their needs. My heart is not in the right place. Therefore, I'm going to ask the Lord to put my heart in the right place if He wants me to be the person to serve. And if my heart's not in the right place, I will wait patiently for that to change. And then maybe God will bring someone else into the mix and serve that person. But it doesn't have to be me, because Christ did not serve every single person on the planet when He was here, right? He took time for himself with the Lord to replenish Himself, to refresh Himself, and to take care of His human body. [00:31:47] 

 

So Christ could, because He was fully God, be with a thousand people every day, 24-7, and healing every single one. But He didn't. So for the 2s to recognize, let God be God. And when God directs them to serve, make sure their heart and their self-care is in the right place to selflessly do it. 

 

Laura Dugger: Oh, that's so good. Can I ask you a favor? If you've enjoyed listening to The Savvy Sauce for free and have benefited in any way, would you consider becoming a patron? For as little as $5 per month, you gain exclusive access to bonus episodes every month, such as a conversation on healthy relationships with the hilarious and practical Sue Heimer, or our Patreon-only episode on living a transformational life with author and counselor Brent Hanson. 

 

Not only is this a great deal for you, but it's a great deal for the future of The Savvy Sauce as well. If every listener even gave $1 per month, it would completely offset all of our costs to produce future episodes. [00:32:49] We are humbled by the generosity of those already contributing. A gift of any amount is greatly appreciated. We hope you join us today by visiting thesavvysauce.com and clicking on our Patreon tab. 

 

With all of these connections, the lines and wings and triads, how many numbers do we actually operate out of? 

 

Beth McCord: Well, that is a good question. It's kind of in some sense infinite because we're not even touching on what's called the instinctual subtypes, which adds 3 more layers to every type. There's also something called the tritype, which is another 27 subtypes. So it just really can go on and on. 

 

For instance, I am a type 9, 9 with an 8 wing. I am asexual, which is also called 1 to 1. The reason why they use that term is I want more intimacy with connectivity and closeness in relationship with people. And then my tritype is a 9, 3, 6. So, it just kind of goes on and on, and so it can get deeper and deeper and more nuanced. [00:33:59]

 

That's what makes it fun because... I mean, it makes it complicated, but it makes it fun because we are unique. We are different. We are special. And then we have our own stories that are in the mix of all of that in our relationship. So, that's why I love this personality typology is that it's not just, oh yeah, you're a color this or color that. I mean, it's this infinite array of colors and possibilities and health and unhealth, etc, etc. 

 

I really just encourage people to first learn the basics through the Discovering You course, then dive into your Exploring You course, where I take you further in, going over some of the things that we went over today, but for your type and how to specifically grow in the gospel. 

 

Then if you're really wanting to know more, I have a course called Becoming an Enneagram Coach. This is for anyone that wants a deeper dive or anyone that wants to use it with other people. So it doesn't have to be a coach. You could be a counselor, pastor, mentor, anyone that wants to help others transform. 

 

Laura Dugger: That's awesome. Because you do such an amazing job simplifying the Enneagram for us, and I really appreciate that you've got these courses available online. [00:35:11] For all you listeners, Beth has made it available. 

 

When you are purchasing one of those courses, you can use the code 10OFF, and it's all one word, and you will get $10 off one of those courses because, like we mentioned, we have not even scratched the surface of all the nuances of the Enneagram. 

 

But we only have time for one more question. We are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" means practical knowledge or discernment. So, Beth, we would love to hear, what is your savvy sauce? 

 

Beth McCord: If all the personalities have a different colored lens, what is yours? How do you see the world? What colored lens are you looking through? And then how can you describe this for others in a non-reactive way, but a proactive way? 

 

So when you're talking to a friend, a coworker, a spouse, a child, how can you express your heart, your intentions, your motives in a way that is not threatening to others, blaming, controlling, demanding? But how can you express what your needs are in a way that helps others to truly see you? [00:36:22] But also then how can you put on their glasses? How can you see their world from their perspective? That's what I would really encourage everyone to do. 

 

Laura Dugger: I love it. That's a great place to end today. Beth, really, your knowledge on all these topics is just incredible. I'm so overwhelmed with gratitude just that you took all of these years of study and translated them into our few minutes together today. So thanks for joining us. 

 

Beth McCord: Yeah, thank you. 

 

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

 

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. [00:37:25] But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

 

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. 

 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. [00:38:25] Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. 

 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. 

 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?

 

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. 

 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. [00:39:27] 

 

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.