BONUS: Special Patreon Release: His Desires and Her Desires in the Bedroom with Dr. Jennifer Konzen

*DISCLAIMER* This episode is intended for adults

 

BONUS: Special Patreon Release: His Desires and Her Desires in the Bedroom with Dr. Jennifer Konzen

 

**Transcription Below**

 

1 Corinthians 7:3 (AMP) “The husband must fulfill his [marital] duty to his wife [with good will and kindness], and likewise the wife to her husband."

 

Dr. Jennifer Konzen is a certified sex therapist, award winning researcher, and international speaker who lives in San Diego, California. She and her husband Time have four kids. She has been a parent educator, a marriage, parenting, and sexuality seminar and conference speaker, and yes, a Broadway showtimes performer (her undergraduate degree is in Musical Theater and Vocal Performance). 

Dr. Jennifer Konzen’s Website 

Art of Intimate Marriage by Tim Konzen and Dr. Jennifer Konzen

Redeemed Sexuality by Tim Konzen and Dr. Jennifer Konzen

Intimate Marriage Cards by Tim Konzen and Dr. Jennifer Konzen

The Gottman Institute

hotholyhumorous.com

christianfriendlysexpositions.com

christiannymphos.org 

 

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

[00:00:17] <music>

Laura Dugger: Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message. 

I'm grateful for today's sponsor, Chick-fil-A East Peoria. Check them out online to place your order for dining or catering, or to fill out an application to join their friendly team. Visit cfaeastpeoria.com 

If this is your first time here, welcome! You may be wondering what it means to have a special Patreon release, so here's the scoop. Patreon was a platform we used to generate financial support for The Savvy Sauce, and we expressed our thanks to those paying patrons by giving them a bonus episode every month.

But in 2024, we transitioned away from Patreon when we became a non-profit called The Savvy Sauce Charities. [00:01:22] The podcast is part of this non-profit, which exists to resource loved ones to inspire growth and intimacy with God and others. So people used to pay to support us through Patreon, but now they can just donate directly to our non-profit.

We spend thousands of dollars each year to record and produce these episodes, and we do pray that they're beneficial and that God sees fit to use them to be transformational in your life. If that is the case, if you have ever benefited from an episode of The Savvy Sauce, would you consider showing your gratitude through your financial generosity? Any amount is greatly appreciated. In fact, if every listener gave only $1 per month, it would completely offset our costs. 

We have all the details on our website, thesavvysauce.com, but feel free to also reach out to our team anytime if you want to partner together. [00:02:22] Our email address is info@thesavvysauce.com.

And now I'm pleased to share this episode with you that used to only be available to paying patrons. 

My guest is psychologist and founder of Authentic Intimacy, Dr. Juli Slattery. 

Here's our chat.

Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Juli. 

Dr. Juli Slattery: Oh, thanks so much for having me again. 

Laura Dugger: And for those who missed our previous episode, can you give us a glimpse of who you are and what you do?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah. I'm a wife of 25 years, mom of three sons who are quickly leaving the nest. I'm a clinical psychologist. My work these days is I run a ministry called Authentic Intimacy, and our vision is reclaiming God's design for sexuality. That practically looks like just helping people sort through where is God in the midst of what I'm struggling with, in my marriage, in my singleness, with sexual temptation, with the confusion of culture. [00:03:23] So really integrating God's truth with just the issues that we deal with everyday related to intimacy and sexuality.

Laura Dugger: Well, it's a very important work that you talk with people from all over the world about this topic. So from your wealth of knowledge in this area, what themes are you starting to see repeatedly?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Well, there are some themes that we've seen really since we started this work in 2012. And those probably won't surprise anyone. But there are things like how do we overcome differences in marriage related to sex? What if I have no sexual desire or my husband has no desire? We talk a lot about pornography and addressing that in marriage and just family. 

Sexual abuse recovery. Probably about one-third of women have had sexual trauma in their past and about one out of every six men. And so this impacts a lot of people. And so how do you heal from that and how that impacts intimacy? [00:04:27] 

Then in today's day and age, we're also getting new questions just related to gender fluidity and just redefining marriage. And what does the Bible have to say about all those things? 

So I'm definitely not bored. My job definitely keeps me on my knees and in the word of God and just really trying to give people biblical guidance through the kinds of issues we're facing today.

Laura Dugger: Yes. Even through your podcast, which is just one part of Authentic Intimacy, you have so many episodes. It just seems you never run out of ideas related to this topic. Is that right?

Dr. Juli Slattery: It is. You would think that we would. We've been doing the podcast now for, I think, like five years and we have over 250 episodes.  But we don't run out of topics because people are just grappling with these issues. 

Sometimes we'll just teach through a topic, but often we'll have a guest on that shares a story of just where God has brought healing and redemption. [00:05:29] Sometimes we just talk about our relationship with the Lord. I wanted all to go back to that. So keep going as long as the podcast is helping people and ministering to them.

Laura Dugger: Well, it sounds like it definitely is. I personally love the local church. I'm sure you do as well. So I hope that we're all doing our part both to build it up and protect it. What do you see the church getting wrong and getting right on this topic?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Well, you have to almost look at it from a historic point of view. Because I think most of us who have grown up in the church, any form of church, would probably say that my church growing up never talked about sex. And if they did talk about sex, it was awkward. Maybe it was with a very harsh or judgmental tone. Or it was a male pastor telling the wives that this is important in marriage. 

So we have a lot of baggage, I think, from the ways that the church has not addressed sexuality. [00:06:31] Or if we have addressed it, it hasn't been with God's heart. And so there are a lot of people that have a history with the church related to sexuality that actually makes them feel like God is the last place I want to go to talk about sex. And so we have a lot of undoing to get this right, I think, in our current generation. 

I'm glad to see that churches, by and large, are starting to address the kinds of issues that people are struggling with without making them feel shame. For struggling with pornography, for questioning things around gender, for brokenness in marriage, or sleeping around promiscuity, all those things that traditionally you never want to admit in a church, I think we're now starting to get realistic about the fact that this is where people live today and they need practical help. 

But there's also a really big divide happening in our country and also in our churches.[00:07:31] You know, is God primarily a God of love who just embraces wherever we are, allows us to stay where we are? Or is God more a God of truth that has these standards of righteousness and we have to live up to these standards of righteousness? 

There's a lot of sorting through those issues right now in the Christian church of how do we walk with both the truth of God and the grace of God. That's really my heart is helping churches and just individuals grapple through that tension.

Laura Dugger: I like how you said tension there because it's not just an easy one-time sermon that will solve all the problems, right?

Dr. Juli Slattery: No, not at all. Actually, one thing that I'm really encouraging churches to adopt is more of what I call a sexual discipleship model, where they're approaching issues of sexuality with a discipleship mindset. And discipleship is lifelong. It's this goal of maturity that we're all walking towards. [00:08:31] And it means really authentic relationships, doing life together, and dealing with the real-life issues as they happen. You know, let's respond to what just happened in the news or what's happening within our church body, instead of it feeling like sex is always talked about just from like a high and lofty perspective.

Laura Dugger: That's really good. Changing gears here a little bit, as believers, I think that we should have the most fulfilling sex lives in our marriages because we are intimately connected as well to the creator of intimacy. So are there any sexual pleasures or benefits you think believers are missing out on just because of a lack of education or maybe a belief in anything short of God's truth?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah. I see that all the time, particularly in a couple ways. First of all, there are a lot of Christians that carry shame around related to their sexuality because of things they feel guilty about that they've done in the past or they're currently struggling with, because of things they've experienced or even religious teaching that made them feel that sexual desire and pleasure is wrong. [00:09:42] And so I think that's one big barrier to overcome.

I think particularly with Christian women, like how do I enjoy this in my marriage when I feel like I've grown up thinking this is wrong and my desires are wrong? That's a barrier. But then I think also we have a very superficial, even within the church, understanding of what sexual desire is supposed to be.

I think we buy the Hollywood image of it that the best sexual pleasure is going to be like with two perfect bodies and it's on the honeymoon and it's just this natural ecstasy that happens. That's just not the reality for married couples. It doesn't usually happen right away where sex is fun or pleasurable. It usually takes work. There's obstacles to overcome. Our bodies are not perfect.

And so I think because we buy that lie that the greatest sexual pleasure is kind of this ecstasy of a moment, we miss the kind of pleasure that can be built on a journey over time, even as we together work through obstacles. [00:10:52] There's a much more profound intimacy, vulnerability, and pleasure for couples that will hang in there and be on that journey together instead of giving up when things don't go well right away.

Laura Dugger: You're right because doesn't the research validate that couples who have been together longer are more satisfied, even comparing it to Hollywood, things we wouldn't expect if they're having health issues or they've added children to the marriage, and yet there is this mystery of they're enjoying it more later?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah, that's what the research does show, that the most sexually satisfied people are people that have been in a long-term committed relationship. Interestingly, those that have a strong faith, like a religious faith, are more likely to have a good sex life as they age. So, yeah, it bears out God's design. But we don't hear that very often. We're just bombarded with messages that sex is all about how it feels in the moment and how your body looks and how much you're compatible with each other but that's not what the research shows. [00:12:01] 

Laura Dugger: Okay, so now with that foundation, what do you recommend for all of the couples listening to experience more sexual pleasure?

Dr. Juli Slattery: One thing I'd recommend is really to take a long-term view of it. Think of it like you have this project that you're working on as a couple. Sometimes I'll talk about it being like a box of Legos. 

When you open up a box of Legos, you have a really cool design on the outside of the box, but you don't open up the box to get a finished product. You have to put all the pieces together and follow the directions, and it might take you a long time to build it. With Legos even, once you build, you tear it down, you build again.

Sex is a lot more like that. It can be very confusing, frustrating. It can cause conflict in your marriage right out of the gate or as you encounter difficulty. But if you continually remind yourself and your spouse that God has actually given us this gift so that we learn to love more intimately, so that we're learning to forgive, we're learning to be unselfish. [00:13:05] If you can have that perspective, then really any obstacles you have to overcome, whether they're emotional or physical or difference in desires or whether there's pornography or things like that that you need to work through, you see that even in the obstacles, God can be doing something really good between you.

Laura Dugger: I think there's two important points there, what you're talking about. First, that there likely will be obstacles at some point and that there's hope in that. Second, I've heard you speak with that Lego example before. I think it's such a great example. 

I remember you saying if you opened it up and you expected that picture that's on the box, and then you open it up and all these pieces just fall out, you'd be very disappointed.

Dr. Juli Slattery: For sure. I think all of us have experienced that. Like, wow, this isn't what I thought it would be. Even if you've had sex before you got married, a lot of married couples will say, once we got married, we can't agree or it's not fun anymore. [00:14:07] So, yeah, the obstacles are normal and you should expect them.

Laura Dugger: Why do you think that is, that couples, even if they had been sexually active before marriage, they come into marriage and it's not working for them? Any reasons or theories you have on that?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah. I think there are all kinds of reasons. We can look at it from even a spiritual perspective that I really believe that Satan hates great sex within marriage. He does because it's a very powerful part of God's design and God's blessing. And so he'll do anything he can to make sex a source of conflict instead of a source of unity. 

But I think also we often come into marriage with the belief that our sex life is about me being pleased and about us having pleasure. We just naturally love that way when we're immature. We love the idea of you loving me well. 

In marriage, sex is just one of those areas that exposes our selfish perspective. [00:15:09] And it doesn't matter how, quote-unquote, compatible you are, you're going to hit a wall with your spouse, probably early on in marriage related to sexuality, where you wanted sex but he or she didn't. Or maybe your spouse wanted sex and you didn't feel ready. Or something was said that was hurtful. Or, you know, something was insensitive. You're going to run into something that hurts your sense of this was for me. 

Again, this is not just in the sexual relationship. It's all of marriage where you have to share your money, you have to share your time. And you start to realize that you've always defined love as how the other person is making you feel, and now all of a sudden you don't feel so great. I think that's a good part of growing. You know, people will say, hey, that's a bad thing. But if we never experienced that, we would just love very selfishly. We'd never move past that. [00:16:09] 

Laura Dugger: And I think what you do so well, even with your resources like your study Passion Pursuit, there's this healthy both/and approach because, yes, we are selfish. And that can come out in intimacy and marriage. And I would think especially for Christian women, sometimes we're too selfless, if that's possible.  Would you agree with that?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah, absolutely. What happens if you're a completely selfless lover and all you want to do is please the other person? Well, one thing that happens is the other person gets to stay selfish. That's not healthy. That's not healthy for intimacy. In the long run, it's going to breed resentment.

I mean, I've talked to women who are 10, 15, 20 years into marriage, and they're resentful that sex has always been about pleasing him. And maybe in the moment they're like, "Okay, I'm doing my duty. I'm a good Christian wife. I'm being a good lover." [00:17:09] But in the long run, you haven't built intimacy and you haven't challenged your husband to learn to be a good lover. And so, yeah, it's not completely about you and it's not completely about him. 

As you learn to love each other, you actually find that it's all supposed to be leading to God, to understanding his love for us, to learning to love God more as a couple. And so I think it's dangerous. I'm glad you brought that up. It's dangerous to have the perspective that it's all about me or it's all about him. Intimacy is a mutual yielding to each other.

Laura Dugger: I remember, it might have even been in your resource, but oftentimes the biggest turn-on for a husband is a turned-on wife. So if she's only focused on being selfless, she could be doing the opposite of what she's actually intending.

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah, you're absolutely right. The biggest pleasures that a husband has is knowing that he's bringing pleasure to his wife and absolutely that she's into it, that she's available, that she's enjoying it. [00:18:13] And guys will tell you that, Hey, I appreciate it when my wife's just like, hey, this is for you. I'm just going to be pretty passive in this." They're like, "Well, thank you. But that's not really what I want."

You know, thankfully, God has designed men in such a way that they want to be great lovers. It's part of even their sense of masculinity and ego to please their wife. And so that's a great point, Laura, that you bring up, that even in this idea of I'm going to be unselfish, you're really even stealing a deeper pleasure from your husband if you don't let yourself enjoy it.

Laura Dugger: Let's speak just a little bit further to that wife listening. What encouragement would you have for her or what is the first step maybe in correcting that mindset?

Dr. Juli Slattery: It sounds like you may have gone through our Bible study, Passion Pursuit. Is that right? 

Laura Dugger: That's right. Yeah. 

Dr. Juli Slattery: Okay. So, yeah, that Bible study actually is going to be really powerful in unearthing some of the things we believe about sex that really aren't biblical. [00:19:16] And I know I went through this in my own life through writing Passion Pursuit, ironically, just the idea that I'd kind of grown up with without realizing it, that sex was really about pleasing my husband and a good wife would please her husband.

But I never really considered that part of God's design was that a wife is initiating sex, that she's enjoying it. That's even part of a husband's challenge to figure out his wife, to unlock her sexually. 

So a great first step would be going through Passion Pursuit. But if you don't go through Passion Pursuit, get in God's word, read the Song of Solomon, and really think about why would God put such erotic poetry in the Bible? Why does this little book belong within God's word? And what does it say to me about what a healthy sex life is supposed to look like in my marriage? And what you start to realize is that lies just get planted in our hearts without us even realizing it. [00:20:18] 

Sometimes it is through trauma. Sometimes it's because we've done things in the past that we still feel guilty about. And sometimes it's just because the church hasn't taught us a healthy biblical perspective of sexuality. And so we just kind of grow up believing that God really isn't pro-sex, where the Scripture says He really is within the covenant of marriage.

Laura Dugger: Definitely. It is such a great resource. I can't recommend it enough. As always, we'll link to it both in our show notes and then on our website under the Resources tab. 

And now a brief message from our sponsor. 

Sponsor: I want to say thank you to our longtime sponsor, Chick-fil-A East Peoria. I hope that you've already downloaded the Chick-fil-A app. Because did you know that with the app you can skip the line and have food ready for you when you arrive? This is one of my favorite options when I'm taking my four daughters to Chick-fil-A East Peoria.

Download the Chick-fil-A app today and start earning points toward free rewards that are fully customized to your preferences and tastes. [00:21:23] Chick-fil-A was named as one of Glassdoor's best places to work in the nation. That's a huge honor.

One team member even wrote, "No comparison. This is a great job for a first job, extra money or career advancement. Such a loving environment, great management, and fair pay." Chick-fil-A believes that the local and involved ownership ensures fostering an environment where you are known, challenged, and cared for. 

So if you're looking for a wonderful place to work, visit Chick-fil-A East Peoria or fill out an application online today at cfeastpeoria.com. 

Did you know this podcast recently came under the umbrella of our new nonprofit, Savvy Sauce Charities? We launched Savvy Sauce Charities to resource loved ones to grow in intimacy with God and others. Our goal is to share joy through podcast episodes and monthly emails and bonus content. [00:22:23] 

It has been a learning curve, so I want to clarify something I've previously shared. I always want to be transparent with you, so I apologize if this has been confusing in the past, as I am learning so much through this transition into becoming a nonprofit. 

But as soon as we were recognized as an official nonprofit with a tax ID number, I shared how you could make a tax-deductible donation. Our attorney let me know that we are actually still awaiting the next step in the process, which is to receive our recognition of exempt status from the IRS, and that apparently takes many months. I was informed that contributions will still be retroactively tax-exempt, but we're still awaiting that official confirmation from the IRS. So I will keep you posted when that paperwork goes through. 

But will you prayerfully consider financially partnering with us to ensure that we can continue this work into the future? We've been blessed by donations in the hundreds and thousands and in the single digits, and we are truly grateful for any amount the Lord brings to your mind. [00:23:29] You have no idea how encouraging it is to learn someone has generously shared their offering with us. 

There's not a lot of feedback in this work, so receiving a donation or a kind letter refreshes us to press on, and my promise to you is to continue seeking God as I steward these finances.

I will share updates on our website, thesavvysauce.com, and you can find the "Donate" tab with all the details when you visit thesavvysauce.com. If you have any other questions, always feel free to reach out to this email address, info@thesavvysauce.com. Thank you for partnering with us in this meaningful work. I am grateful beyond measure. 

Laura Dugger: Now, on the flip side, are there any parts of sexual intimacy that you believe God's Word makes clear are off-limits to believers?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah, for sure. The most obvious thing is anything that involves another person. [00:24:31] We live in a culture that is talking about open marriages and involving other people in your love life in a physical way, which I think most Christians would understand is clearly wrong.

But where we get a little gray with it is, well, how about in my own imagination? Or how about if we as a couple look at pornography as a way of getting into sexual arousal? We've got to understand that whether you bring somebody into your bedroom in the flesh or in an image or on your computer screen, you're violating the purpose of sex, which is to celebrate a covenant promise between the two of you.

I believe Scripture's really clear that we work to make sure that even within our minds and our hearts, it really is a celebration of ecstasy and intimacy and vulnerability that only involves the two people that have made a covenant to each other. [00:25:31] 

Laura Dugger: I think that's a really great point. Like you mentioned earlier, Satan can run with these things. I think one lie that people believe is maybe if they're looking at pornography themselves, this only affects me.

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah.

Laura Dugger: That's just not truth.

Dr. Juli Slattery: Or they'll justify it, that it's a shortcut. You know, it's easier to be aroused by looking at something really salacious. But again, what the research shows us is that the end result of that is you're not even going to be able to be aroused by being with your spouse.

You're not going to be able to enjoy the great gift that God has given you and your spouse because your brain has been tricked out to respond to things that are unnatural.

Laura Dugger: Yes. And that thing that you thought was really exciting at the time, that's good to play it out long term. That's wisdom. And to see that it can really devastate your sexual intimacy with your partner. 

Dr. Juli Slattery: Mm-hmm.

Laura Dugger: Let's just do a quick general sex ed and cover a few things that you wish spouses knew more about each other. [00:26:32] Let's start with husbands. Juli, because you're an objective third party, what is some helpful information you can provide them with?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Well, I'd say one thing, and this is probably something you already know but it's good to be reminded of. Your wife's sexuality is intertwined with every other aspect of who she is. There's some authors that wrote a book a long time ago called Men Are Like Waffles and Women Are Like Spaghetti.

They describe how men are like waffles because they can compartmentalize everything. Like waffles have those little boxes in them where women are like spaghetti. Every noodle touches every other noodle.

And this is really true with sexuality. Men are much more adept at just compartmentalizing a sexual expression. They can be aroused just by looking at something or one thought. Whereas women, in order for them to be aroused, they have to feel safe emotionally. They have to feel connected to you. They have to be able to shut off everything else that's going on in their mind. [00:27:33] Like, I've got to take care of the kids, and what if one of them hears us?

And so be sensitive to the fact that for your wife to really enjoy sex, you have to be ministering to her at every level. Helping her be rested, helping her feel safe, helping her feel connected. And that sounds like a lot of work, and it is, but it's worth it.

And it's not just about helping your wife have a sexual expression. It's about really helping her feel connected to you and enjoying the whole experience, which is why I think a lot of women, particularly as they're raising young kids, they'll say, I just don't like sex because I never feel ready for it. And so, guys, if this is important to you, then remember that you have to think about how your wife is doing relationally and emotionally and physically and not just in the middle of the day or at the end of the day say, hey, how about we be intimate? Because you're likely to get a no if you haven't been aware of those other things. So that would be a big thing I'd tell husbands. [00:28:36] 

Laura Dugger: I think that's so good, and especially because you use that word "ministering", really that definition is meeting other people's needs. That really clarifies the next step maybe a husband can take in meeting the needs of his wife. Like you said, maybe it's doing dishes and putting the kids to bed or they can be creative.

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah. Some of the most romantic things my husband has done for me have been just ways that he's served me outside of the bedroom. I remember when I was in the stage of motherhood that you're in with little kids, one morning waking up and the sun woke me up. And it's like maybe eight in the morning and I panicked because I was like, "Oh, I slept in like I overslept. I got to get the kids to school. And who woke up the baby and fed"? You know, like I immediately panicked. 

Then I realized that my husband had gotten up early and just done all that for me and let me sleep in. [00:29:34] I tell you, that was like, wow, where's that man? I want to show him some love. But just really understanding that courting your wife, you know, really inviting her to intimacy is about a lot more than getting naked. It's really about serving her in those other areas.

Laura Dugger: And such a practical example that you just gave one way of ministering would be helping her sleep because fatigue is usually the number one for a wife for killing sexual intimacy.

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah. Isn't that funny? It's that simple, but we just don't have the energy. 

The other thing I would encourage husbands to do is to give your wife like a warm-up time. We call that foreplay. But really what I mean even more so is that because women have to be prepared emotionally and physically, if they know, hey, tonight we're going to try to be intimate, then they'll think that way.

They'll begin thinking about what they want to do with you and thinking about, Okay, I'm not going to try to get all the laundry done tonight and, you know, think about I want to take a bath or a shower this afternoon so I just feel clean. [00:30:47] All those things that you don't think are important, that's what gets a woman ready for intimacy. And so if you just feel like you always want to be spontaneous, you're most likely not to be met with open arms.

Like my husband and I have tried different things over the years, whether it's putting sex on the calendar so that I know, Hey, this is what I'm preparing for. Or even something that we would call a requisition order. Doesn't sound romantic, but it was kind of a joke between us where Mike would like say, "Hey, I'm putting in a requisition order. Like I would like to be with you. I want sex with you, but I know it's going to take time for you to get ready. So how about, you know, sometime in the next 24 hours we find a time to be intimate?"

Just that communication has made a huge difference in our marriage, instead of me always feeling like he was going to initiate and I was going to have to try to get out of it because I wasn't ready. [00:31:46] 

Laura Dugger: That's a great example. Before I had kids as a marriage and family therapist, I remember working in a private practice and talking about these issues and clients would come up with different ways to do this. And like you said, for wives, they usually do have to declutter their minds and it helps to be thinking about this.

So when it was a day that they knew they were going to try and be intimate with their husband, they would write TS on the calendar and just think sex. That would mentally prepare them and even help them store up enough energy throughout the day for that night to be special.

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah, you're right. I've heard all kinds of creative ideas. Like, you know, hanging a sign on the door or a certain text that's a code between the two of them. That might even change over time as your language with each other changes over time and your circumstance change. But learning to communicate is really, really healthy and will help avoid those continual misunderstandings or feelings of rejection related to sex. [00:32:53] 

Laura Dugger: And it can lighten it up in an appropriate way to make it just kind of fun and playful when you communicate that way.

So now we've covered a little bit of what we would say to husbands. Now, what about wives? What do you wish you could help them understand about their husbands?

Dr. Juli Slattery: I would wish that wives would understand that although husbands can be more compartmentalized with sex, to understand that sex still impacts every aspect of who they are. They don't always have the words for it. 

For example, we've already talked about this a little bit. Husbands, their sense of masculinity or the ego is really tied up in their sexuality. This plays out in a lot of different ways. For a man that has a higher sex drive, if he continually feels rejected by his wife, that chips away at his confidence, at his feeling of safety within your marriage. 

But that also plays out for men that have a lower sex drive. [00:33:53] I'd say probably 20%, 30% of marriages, a man's going to just naturally have a lower sex drive than his wife does. In that situation, both the man and the woman can feel very inadequate. Like, what's wrong with me? A woman will feel like, "All my friends are talking about how their husbands always want sex. My husband never pursues me." And she can feel rejected. 

But what adds to it then is the man starts to feel less like a man. Like, "What's wrong with me? Because I can't enjoy this. I don't desire this like other men do." 

So really understanding as you address sexuality within your marriage, that a man's confidence, his sense of ego, his sense of masculinity and self is really tied up in the whole topic of sexuality. And being sensitive to that, whatever issue you're addressing. Being careful not to shame him, but just to embrace who he is and walk with him on that journey. [00:34:53] 

And that's the other thing I would say is that a wife is really a teammate for a husband in every area of life.  You know, in Genesis, God said it's not good for a man to be alone, so I'm going to make him a helper. Or the Hebrew word is ezer. Like an empowering person that walks alongside him.

I think it's important for a wife to realize that most men face a really challenging journey of trying to honor God with their sexuality. And you want to be his teammate in that. To help him know that he doesn't have to keep secrets from you. That you want to understand where he's tempted. Not that you're his accountability partner, but that you share this part of his life with him. And it's not like he has to be isolated.

So those are two things I'd encourage you to consider as a wife.

Laura Dugger: I think those are great. Just thinking back, I've heard you speak before and there is a really practical example. [00:35:52] I just love how you answered someone's question this one time. She had asked why her husband didn't like her rubbing his leg to get him in the mood. And you just frankly said, "He probably wishes you were rubbing something else."

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah. That's practical. But it is a difference between men and women. Women generally like indirect stimulation that makes them feel safe and comfortable and gets them going. Men like direct stimulation in one place. And they're happy to just get right started there. So those are some of the differences that most couples are going to have to navigate.

Laura Dugger: And once we understand some of those gender differences, I think it can counterintuitively pull us closer together and actually make our sex lives more satisfying. 

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah. I think those gender differences were part of God's original design. It's not like the gender differences appeared with sin. [00:36:52] Adam and Eve were different from the beginning. And there's a lot of reasons why we're different, but one of them is, again, because it forces you to have a larger view of what sex is about in your marriage. That it's not just about me always getting my needs met. It's about us on a journey together learning what it is to love.

Laura Dugger: Well, I love encouragement. So what patterns are you seeing in couples who are getting it right as it relates to their overall intimacy in marriage?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Oh, you know, I get so much encouragement through what I'm doing at Authentic Intimacy. And it's so fun to run into people two or three years after maybe they've been to an event that we've done or they've gone through Passion Pursuit or another book. And they just will say, like, "God has completely changed this area of our life. We used to fight about it all the time. Now it's just really become a joy. And we're learning to love each other in such profound ways." [00:37:53] 

Just being able to hear stories of couples that have overcome infidelity, pornography, you know, just all kinds of differences, sexual pain. And so I get to hear encouraging stories a lot of what happens when a couple really yields this part of their marriage to God. And is on that journey of healing.

Laura Dugger: There may be some effort they have to put into that or maybe go see a third party, and like you said, getting in God's word. But it is so worthwhile.

Dr. Juli Slattery: It is. And it's a journey. You're right. It doesn't just magically happen. You do have to work at it and pray about it. And at times get some outside help. But it's worth it.

Laura Dugger: Well, and if you are one of the keys for them getting this outside help, can you just tell people where they can find you online?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Yeah. You can find out everything we're doing at AuthenticIntimacy.com. You'll see books, Bible studies, our podcast, blog events. You know, just however you can connect with our ministry, you'll be able to find that there. [00:38:55] 

Laura Dugger: Juli, I just have one final question for you. 

Dr. Juli Slattery: Uh-huh.

Laura Dugger: We are called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so as my final question today, what is your savvy sauce?

Dr. Juli Slattery: Wow, this is going to sound very churchy, but it's the first thing that comes to my mind is just spending time with God. I can't do anything that God asked me to do without spending time with Him, including love my husband. Sex within our marriage has never been an easy thing for us.

And so for us to walk with integrity, for me to be a woman of integrity, for me to teach my kids, really all depends on God's healing in my life and getting His perspective. So if there's one piece of advice I'd give is make an effort, even if it's just 15 minutes a day, to spend time with God and get His perspective on everything, including sexuality. [00:39:56] 

Laura Dugger: That's great wisdom. I know I've followed your work for years, Juli, and I admire your courage just to help others in this realm of pursuing sexuality the way God intended. So thanks for being my guest today.

Dr. Juli Slattery: Well, thanks so much for letting me share. It's been a joy.

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.

This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior.

But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. [00:40:57] This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.

Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.

Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. [00:42:03] 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring, Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started? 

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John. 

Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. 

We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. [00:43:04] 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.