42 Understanding and Utilizing the Enneagram in Your Life with Enneagram Coach, Beth McCord

42. Understanding and Utilizing the Enneagram in Your Life with Enneagram Coach, Beth McCord

 

**Transcription Below**

 

Jeremiah 1:5 (a) NIV “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart;"

 

Beth McCord is the founder of Your Enneagram Coach. She has been an Enneagram speaker, coach and teacher for over 15 years. Beth is passionate about coming alongside individuals and helping them re-write their story, allowing them to see that lasting change, meaningful relationships, and a life of deep purpose is possible. This passion is what drove her to create this community, a safe place for individuals to explore the Enneagram.Beth is now leading the industry in simplifying the deep truths of the Enneagram from a Biblical perspective. Beth's passion is to make the Enneagram accessible for everyone, anywhere, so they can experience the transformation they long for. This includes one-on-one coaching, in-person events and workshops and online courses. She also offers training and support for those interested in becoming an Enneagram coach. At home, Beth's favorite hobbies are studying and producing helpful Enneagram resources, fly fishing, and driving through the beautiful hillsides of Tennessee with her family. Beth lives outside of Nashville and has been married to her best friend, Jeff, for 22 years (Type 6, Loyal Guardian). They have two teenage children (a Type 6, Loyal Guardian and a Type 2, Supportive Advisor). Combining the gospel and the Enneagram has been instrumental in Beth and Jeff's marriage and parenting.

 

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Boundaries for the Soul by Alison Cook and Kimberly Miller 

 

Beth’s Website 

 

Connect with Beth on Instagram @yourenneagramcoach 

 

Beth’s Free assessment

 

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription**

 

[00:00:00] <music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

[00:00:17] <music>

Laura Dugger: Today's message is brought to you by Chick-fil-A East Peoria. Stay tuned for insider tips we're going to share during the episode. 

I'm so excited to share today's guest, Beth McCord. Beth is an Enneagram coach and she offers various courses online. She has such a warm personality. We're going to cover all personality types and see how they help us understand ourselves and others better, all under the umbrella of the gospel. Here's our chat. 

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Beth. 

Beth McCord: Hey, thanks. Glad to be here. 

Laura Dugger: Can you just start us off by giving a quick snapshot of your life? 

Beth McCord: Oh, yeah, sure. So I am married to Jeff, and we've been married... 23 years? Yeah, 23 years. And we have two kids. Nate is 20 and a sophomore in college and a type six. When we get to that, people will understand. [00:01:21] Then my daughter is a 18-year-old freshman in college and she is a type two. 

So we live in Nashville, Tennessee, or just outside of it. My husband is an executive pastor outside of Nashville, and he has been in the ministry for twenty-two years, I guess. We have traveled kind of the Midwest area between Kansas City, St. Louis, central Illinois, and now Nashville.

So our kids are grown, and we're really just diving into helping people to understand who they are in Christ through the lens of the Enneagram. Meaning, why do they do what they do? Where are they struggling? How can they become more like Christ? And what's preventing them or keeping them from that? So that's kind of what we're doing these days, and we're really enjoying it. 

Laura Dugger: I think it's such a fascinating work. Some people who are listening may love personality tests like we do, and some may loathe them. So let's just lay the foundation. Why do you think that it's important to both understand and apply the Enneagram? [00:02:29] 

Beth McCord: You know, I think all personality assessments are great in a sense. I mean, I'm sure maybe not all. I don't know all of them. But in general, it's just really good to get to know ourselves. But they're all going to be very different. And they all have different strengths and probably weaknesses to them all. 

The reason why I focus on the Enneagram and why I think it's really important, especially as a believer, is that God cares about our heart, not just the outward manifestations, because it's the outward manifestations that reveals our heart. And that's what He's trying to get to, and He wants our heart to become more like Christ. 

Well, so many of us don't even know why we do what we do. Like, why do we think something, feel something, or react a certain way, behave a certain way? I mean, we kind of know on the surface, but do we really know what drove that? What was the motivation behind that? 

What I would contend is most of the time we really don't. Usually, when I'm working with clients, we'll talk about a specific topic and they'll give me a reason, but it's usually still the top of the iceberg. [00:03:30] They don't realize it, but it's not getting to the core motivation. And that's where the Enneagram is so helpful, because it brings astonishing clarity to why we do what we do. 

When we can get to the why, plus bringing the gospel, then we can fully see ourselves for who we are without shame, self-condemnation, and fear, because that's been taken care of by Christ. We can look at our heart for really what it is and bring it back to Christ and experience His unconditional love, forgiveness, and the freedom we have in Him. 

Laura Dugger: You're kind of already alluding to this, but just specifically, how does the Enneagram help us to understand more about ourselves, our God, and the gospel? 

Beth McCord: Yeah, so how it helps us to understand ourselves. Think about the Enneagram as, let's say, an internal GPS. So, you have your current location, which is your main type, and your main personality type has a healthiest destination for it, which what we would say is being aligned with the gospel or understanding your true identity in Christ. [00:04:35] 

That's where we want to go, right? But so often we fall asleep, we get distracted, and we start veering off our best path. We keep falling into these pitfalls on the side of the road and get stuck, and we don't understand why we keep doing it. The Enneagram is going to help us to understand this "why" so that we can... What I always tell people, it's kind of like we're putting rumble strips on the highway. You know, those things on the side of the highway that when you hit them, they go da, da, da, da. Well, we want the Enneagram to be utilized in that way. 

The Enneagram itself is just a tool. It's just showing us where our heart is and how we're doing. It's not the transformation. The transformation is the gospel. But the Enneagram is going to help you to know if you're going to fall into that pitfall again or if you're actually on your best path. You're leaning on Christ. You're trusting in Him. 

So we want the Enneagram to do that so that you know really how you're doing. Now, how that will help you with your relationship with God, I think is pretty clear. But it lets you know, wow, the Lord has done really great work in me, and now I'm experiencing a deeper and more freeing relationship with Him. [00:05:46] 

But even if we're not, let's say we keep falling into that same pitfall, we don't have to have the self-condemnation, fear, and shame that our flesh wants to, and especially the one that doesn't want us to live in our identity in Christ. He is constantly beating us up. 

So with that, what we can do is say, you know, wait, hold on a second. I don't have to beat myself up here. I don't have to have the shame and self-condemnation and fear. Even though I'm still in this ditch and I'm stuck in mud and I can't get out, I can still surrender and depend on the Holy Spirit because He's the one that pulls me out and He's the one that gets me back on my right path, not me. That's where the real freedom comes. 

This isn't about pull yourself up by your bootstraps, figure it out, get on your best path, then God will love you. No, He's already loved you, and He still continues to advocate for us. And so that's how our relationship with Christ can become more deep and real.

Then with others, what's amazing about the Enneagram is not only does it reveal why you do what you do, but you have the ability now to understand others in a very deep and real way so that you can have compassion and understanding, mercy, grace, and hopefully forgiveness and then a way to communicate with one another that hopefully has less conflict and more reconciliation. [00:07:05] 

Laura Dugger: You've just laid out such a clear vision already. So is there anything else that you want to explain before we learn about each specific number? 

Beth McCord: You know, what I would say is none of the numbers are gender specific. There's not one number that's more female or male. Also, there's not one number that's better than the other. They're all equal in their amazing reflective qualities of God, because God created us all to reflect Him. But on this side of heaven, we also have our great weaknesses, and every type at their worst is the worst, and every type at their best is the best. So no one gets a prize for being better or worse. The whole focus is how can we all unify in our diversity to glorify God. And so we just want to make sure that we're lifting every number up. 

Now, at times, certain numbers might irritate your personality type. But that doesn't mean that they are less than or worse. It just means that we, who are irritated, need to learn to extend understanding, grace, and compassion to become a more secure and unified body of Christ. [00:08:12] 

Laura Dugger: Okay, now everybody is probably so curious about what their own number is. So let's just dive in and cover numbers one through nine in depth. 

Beth McCord: Great. So what I'll do is the way to find your type is to find your core motivations, the things that drive why you think, feel, and behave in the ways you do. These core motivations are going to peel back all of the behaviors that people see or that you even see in yourself. It gets to the core, and that's why we call it the core motivations. 

There's the core fear. This is the thing that you're always running away from. This cannot happen. You have a core desire. You think, if I could just obtain this, then everything will be bliss and perfect. You have a core weakness. The core weakness is kind of like the thorn in our side or our Achilles heel. It's that thing that is always tripping us up. It creates a weakness in us. But God is our strength, even in our weakness. [00:09:11] 

Then we have the core longing. The core longing is the message that your heart has always longed to hear from, let's say, your parents at first, and then teachers, coaches, then your spouse, and maybe your children, and your work. This is where Christ has actually answered it. And when we rest in His provision for this, we no longer are trying to manipulate or coerce or demand it from others. We get to allow Christ's message to us to fill us up. And then everyone else, if they do give it to us, it's a bonus on top.

So those are the four elements that we're going to really focus on. We won't get into it at this very moment, but you might find that like, well, I kind of see myself in two types or three types. That's perfectly normal. There's lots of reasons for that. But we're wanting to find the one that is your absolute core, why you do what you do. So be listening for that.

So we'll just dive in and I'll tell you the core motivations and maybe give just a little insight on each of these types, just to kind of help clarify. The type one is the moral perfectionist. And the type ones fear being wrong, bad, evil, inappropriate, corruptible, unredeemable. They desire to have integrity, to be right, virtuous, to basically be the good girl or the good boy. This has to do with right and wrong, ethics, morals, procedures, standards, policies, those kinds of things. [00:10:38] 

Now, there are other types that want to do what's right or do what's good, but this gets down to the real core of ethics. So their weakness, the type one, the core weakness is resentment. Now, this is anger that's really been repressed. Because they have this constant frustration and dissatisfaction with themselves, others, and the world. Because it's not perfect. They can see it.

In fact, it's not that moral perfectionists are walking around looking for imperfections. It leaps out at them and assaults them. And they're constantly being bombarded by these imperfections and they think everyone has the same scenario happening. And so when someone steps over a piece of trash or something, they don't fix something, they get resentful. Like, are you just leaving this for me to do? 

Now, the other person may not have seen it at all or could care less. It doesn't bother them. But the type one thinks everyone is like them and has this really loud berating, one loud inner critic that is constantly telling them to do this, do that. This is wrong. You should do this. They should do that. [00:11:47] And they think everyone else has that, and so they feel resentful that they have to be the adult in the group or in the family or in the workplace to get everything done right. And that's where their resentment comes in. 

Now, their core longing, the message that their heart has always longed to hear, is for someone to tell them, you are good. But that's what Christ has answered for them, and not because they were good, but God can say you are good because of Christ in them, because of His finished work, His righteousness put on them. That's what God is looking at. So it gives the freedom for the one to rest in Christ's righteousness and to know that they're safe and secure in that. 

The Type 2 is a supportive advisor, and they fear being worthless, needy, inconsequential, dispensable, disposed, and definitely not being worthy of being loved and wanted. What they desire is to be appreciated, wanted, and loved. Their core weakness is pride, and this is the inability or unwillingness to acknowledge their own suffering and needs, but instead what they do is they focus on the needs of others and then they confidently insert their help and advice into someone else's life, whether it was asked for or not. [00:13:03]

The reason that they'll do that is they want to hear gratitude, affirmation, encouragement, thankfulness, because those things represent to them that they're valuable, wanted, and loved. So the core longing that they have always wanted to hear is you are wanted and loved for just being you. You don't have to serve or support or give anymore. You can just rest in Christ's accomplishments. That is so amazing. If a type two can rest in that, they will be so filled up. And they're still going to be giving and serving, but it's going to be out of an overflow versus desperately needing someone to give them the affirmation or the gratitude that they think they must have.

Laura Dugger: Okay, that makes sense. And just to clarify, I'm trying to envision people that I know who have said they're twos. Is it really shocking to them when they discover that pride is... how do you describe it? 

Beth McCord: The core weakness. In other circles, it's called the deadly sin or the passion. But I kind of like the core weakness because it really talks about that thorn in our side that just won't go away. But yes, sometimes twos are shocked by it, and then other twos aren't as much. I think it depends on how aware they are. 

And some type nines will think they're a two, and those are probably the ones that are really shocked. The difference between, and we'll get into this a little bit later, the difference between a nine and a two is the nines are there to accommodate. So they're waiting for someone to tell them how to help them. They're not going to insert their help. Whereas the twos know other people's feelings and needs and they insert their help quite confidently. Especially when they're not doing well, or they feel that they're unloved and unwanted, they'll ramp up their help and support and advice giving in order to get the affirmation and value that they think they need. [00:14:55] 

So Twos, they have this instinct to know what other people need and their feelings. So in a sense, they have this pride, like, no, I really do know what you need. And it could be true, but it doesn't mean others really want it. So they can overstep their bounds. And so, yes, on one side, they don't want to admit it because admitting it means, well, then maybe I won't be valued or wanted if someone sees my weakness. At the same time, a lot of them are like, But no, it's true, I do know what they need. So it's kind of this mixed bag. 

Laura Dugger: Interesting. Okay. And now what about threes? 

Beth McCord: So type three, the successful achiever, they fear failing, being incompetent, inefficient, exposed, unsuccessful, and definitely not appearing like having a high status or high regard. So, what they desire is to be valuable, admired, and respected. So, for them, it is all about image. What do other people see? Are they achieving? Are they successful? Are they admired? [00:15:56] 

Now, the core weakness of the three is deceit. What this really means in the Enneagram is that threes deceive themselves into believing that they're only the image that they present to others through success and achievements. So it's similar to, let's say, a placekicker in football. There's a saying that says, you're as good as your last kick. Well, for the three, you're as good as your last success. So they're constantly coming up with new goals and strategies and tasks and projects to check it off the list. And when they can check it off the list and they've done a good job, or at least it appears they've done a good job, then they feel okay and safe and secure because it's all about other people seeing that they have value. 

So what they would love to hear, their core longing, is you are loved and valued for being just yourself. You do not need to achieve my love. And so the threes are shocked when they hear this. What? I don't have to achieve it? I don't have to earn it? No. Especially with Christ. He accomplished everything on your behalf and gave it to you. [00:17:02] So your perfect accomplishments are literally His perfect accomplishments. And that's what you get to rest in now. So you get to still achieve and be successful, but it's now out of an overflow instead of a desperate need for the heart. 

Laura Dugger: I love hearing the freedom with each of these. It's great. 

Beth McCord: Yeah. So our type four, the romantic individualist. Their core fear is being inadequate, emotionally cut off, plain and mundane. They feel defective and flawed and they fear not having significance. So what they desire is to be their authentic self, unique, special, and different. 

Now, their core weakness is envy. And how this plays out is that they feel that there's something fundamentally missing in them or something that's defective and flawed. And this leads them to have envy that others have possessions or qualities that they lack. So they long for what is missing and they try to become unique in a certain way, hoping that others won't see the flaws or the defects that they think they have and that others will be enamored by their uniqueness and therefore love them for that. [00:18:14] 

So what they long to hear is "you are loved and seen for exactly who you are, special and unique". So, we want them to realize God knows you intimately. He's the one that created you. He created you special and unique to be you. You don't have to become more unique or the most unique. You are simply loved for being who you are. And that's what we want for us to know. 

Laura Dugger: And maybe this is stereotyping too much, but is it common for a 4 to be in a really creative career? 

Beth McCord: The fours are very creative. All types can be creative. And 4s and 7s typically are kind of seen as the creative types, but all of them can be, obviously. But they do love to express themselves uniquely in some form of creativity or art. Now, when I say that, that is a wide-open field. 

We had a senior pastor in central Illinois that my husband was an associate pastor under him, and he was a type four. And for him, his sermons are his work of art. [00:19:19] It's the expression of himself in his uniqueness. So it can be in a lot of varieties, but yes, they want to basically give the world their unique self in some form of creativity. 

Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor. 

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Laura Dugger: And what about fives? 

Beth McCord: So the type five is the investigative thinker and they fear annihilation, being ignorant, invaded, incapable, not existing, or obligations placed upon them and being overwhelmed. They desire to be capable and competent and having a lot of knowledge about pretty much everything. Now, they usually specialize in one field, but the more knowledge to them, the better. And the lack of knowledge is where the fears come in. 

The core weakness of the five is avarice. Now, avarice can usually mean like being greedy with money, but that's not what this means. This is that they feel they lack inner resources and that too much interaction with others will lead to catastrophic depletion, which leads them to withhold themselves from being in contact with others. [00:21:38] So what they'll do is they'll kind of hoard or hold on to their resources and minimize their needs because they fear that if they need others, that interaction, too much of it can lead to this catastrophic depletion. 

It can sound extreme for those that aren't fives, but this is like taking introversion to the next level. And it's not just that they're introverts. This has to do more with just this energy resource. Because most fives are introverted, but there's a lot of social fives, but they still all need this time to plug in. And where they plug in to get recharged is by being alone and being able to process their thoughts and their feelings. 

So what you'll find is type fives usually have a secret, secret place that they like to get away to do this recharging. If they can't, they will try to maybe put AirPods in their ears or headphones. Maybe they'll read a book in a corner. They'll somehow quote-unquote, get away to recharge and to be alone. [00:22:41] 

And when anyone interrupts that or intrudes in that space, it's almost like they have to start all over again. It depletes it quickly. So they need to get away because if they don't, they're not able to process their thoughts and their feelings well enough to then feel confident to say what needs to be said. 

A lot of people can think this means they're not people people, they don't like people. That's not it at all. This has to do with their energy resources. So just being mindful of how much battery life they have and do they need to recharge and working with a five on that will be immensely helpful to them. 

Now, what they long to hear is your needs are not a problem. The reason why that's so important for fives is they literally think that their needs are like these big boulders that if they ask them when they're handing a big boulder over and how is that person going to carry it? It's going to be too big. It's too much. And so they want to minimize their needs so that, one, they can take care of themselves, but two, they don't have to burden others. So they would love to know that their needs are not a problem. [00:23:45] 

Well, of course, their needs are not a problem. God knows their needs and knows exactly how to be there and deliver and replenish their energy resources. 

Laura Dugger: And I'm curious, too, something that you had mentioned, that fear comes in maybe when they don't know all the answers. Do fives find it very life-giving to research things? 

Beth McCord: Yes, very much. They're great researchers and they're great observers. They observe things that you think they're not even observing. You might be thinking they're playing a video game or reading a book, but they are really taking in everything and to the point where it's exhausting for them. It really depletes them. And that's why they need that alone time as well. 

But yes, they love to research information so that they'll feel capable and confident to then make a confident decision or move in a direction. But the problem with that is, as you know, and I know, there's a never-ending supply of information. So, when is it that they're going to feel they have enough to make that decision? That's where they can get hung up. 

Laura Dugger: Oh, okay. Okay, now sixes. 

Beth McCord: Yeah, so type six is the loyal guardian, and they fear fear itself being without support or guidance, being alone, blamed, targeted, and physically abandoned. And what they're really desiring is to have security, guidance, and support. Now, their core weakness is anxiety, and this is a constant scanning and preparing for either worst-case scenarios or just anything that could go wrong. It doesn't always have to be the worst, but just anything. [00:25:15] 

So they have an inner committee. Whereas the Type 1 has one loud inner critic, the sixes have an internal committee that are chiming in from all different perspectives. So what about this? What about that? But did you remember this? But did you consider that? You know, so they're all chiming in, which makes it very confusing for the six to know how to move forward. Which one should I listen to? What direction should I go? So there's a lot of self-doubt and not trusting themselves because of this internal kind of chaos and possibilities.

So they look for mentors or support system or belief system outside them that they can listen to and feel like they can trust and then move in that direction. So it could be also some researching, kind of like a five, but they're doing it to find an answer to feel safe and secure to move forward in and to know what's the right path to avoid this inner committee that's giving them too many options. [00:26:15] 

Laura Dugger: And I'm curious, to take it one step further, the sixes then, after they make a decision, what happens to that whole committee? 

Beth McCord: Oh yeah, then they doubt the decision because now they're going to start to think, Well, now this could happen, now that could happen. You know, like, did you realize that this could happen? Did you consider it? So it just continues this dialogue of what if, what if, what if. 

And that can just be really challenging for the six. My husband is a six, my mom and my son. And it's been really neat to watch them grow and to access different tools and resources in how to effectively navigate that inner committee and do it in a way that is honoring to how God designed them. 

Laura Dugger: I know a lot of sixes in my life as well. So what are some of those practical tips or resources that have been really meaningful to them? 

Beth McCord: Well, one that is meaningful for all of us to use, but especially sixes, is a counseling technique. [00:27:17] I'm not a counselor, I'm just a coach, but I have utilized this with a counselor. It's called internal family systems. It is a great way for the sixes and all of us to know the parts in us. 

It just happens that the sixes parts are pretty loud all the time. And when the sixes can learn what this inner committee is and who's chiming in and why, and to navigate that better and to not be so scared of it, but be kind of the mature adult of the group and listen to them and direct the group, that's a more effective way. So my husband calls it his team and he has team meetings. Like, who's upset? Who's maybe freaking out? Who's worried? And listening to them. It doesn't mean he has to believe them, but he can listen to them and guide them and guide the team. 

Beth McCord: There's a book we've read recently that we really love. It's called Boundaries for the Soul. The authors are Allison Cook and Katie Miller. It's just an excellent book really talking about this subject. So that'd be a great resource to dive into. [00:28:19] 

Laura Dugger: Okay, we'll link to that in the show notes.

Beth McCord: The core longing for the Six is they would love to hear someone say, you are safe. Of course, with Christ, they are safe, right? God is the cleft, the safety place, the place where we can go to be safe and secure. So for the six, Christ is exactly that for them. 

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This has been so helpful. Let's just keep going with the sevens. [00:29:20] 

Beth McCord: Great. Okay, so sevens are our entertaining optimists, and they fear being deprived, trapped in emotional pain, being limited, definitely being bored, or missing out on anything fun. What they're desiring is to be happy, satisfied, and fully content. 

Now, their core weakness is gluttony. This isn't just about food. This is an insatiable desire to fill oneself up with experiences and stimulation because they want to avoid this emotional pain and anxiety that they have inside. So what they do is they pursue a variety of positive stimulating ideas and activities so that they think by doing that, they're going to be fulfilled. 

But what happens is that they have this like empty bucket inside that they're trying to fill up and it has holes in it. So the more they try to fill, the more anxious they get to fill it and demand others to help them fill it, the more it just spills out at the end, the more desperate they get. But the more that they can be present in the moment, see the blessings they have and feel gratitude and savor it all, the more their holes get plugged up and the more they're going to feel satisfied and content. [00:30:30] 

And what they long to hear is, you will be taken care of. The reason why they feel that is not that, let's say, their parents didn't, you know, try. They may have really tried, but the sevens have this insatiable desire, like nobody can fill this bucket up because of those holes. So they think, "Well, I better take care of myself. I'm the only one that's going to figure this out." And that's just not true. Christ does take care of them. He's the spring of living water. He will replenish them and fill them up to the full. 

Laura Dugger: Definitely relate to that one. That's my number. 

Beth McCord: Oh, good. So that spoke to you? 

Laura Dugger: Yes, definitely. What about eights? 

Beth McCord: All right. So type eight is the protective challenger. Their core fear is being weak, powerless, harmed, controlled, manipulated, and definitely at the mercy of injustice. And what they're wanting to do is to protect themselves and anyone else that is at the mercy of injustice, that is innocent. Their core weakness is lust. And this isn't about relationship desires. This is a constant need for intensity, control, and exerting themselves by pushing themselves willfully on anything or anyone to get what they want. 

The eights I call snowplow. The reason why I use the snowplow analogy, and you're in the middle of Illinois, and I used to live in the middle of Illinois, and we very well know we have to have these massive diesel trucks that plow the snow off the highways and the major roads. [00:31:57] Because if we all got out there with our little snow shovels, or even the little trucks out there that have a little snow shovel on the front, it's just not going to do it. Not for the kind of snow we're talking about. We need these massive snowplows. So it's beautiful that they're a snowplow and that they can plow a path for others. 

The problem comes when the aides are so focused on what has to happen or what they desire or their needs that they focus on the end result that they're aiming for and they start plowing without seeing who's in front of them. And so they can nick cars on the road or plow straight over them and people are like, Hey, why are you being so intense or harsh? And the eights are like, what, what are you talking about? I'm just plowing. You know, why are you in the way? If you can't handle it, get out of the way.

What we want the eights to realize is we need your intensity, we need your power, but we need you to see the people in front of you and tell them to get behind you so that you can plow a path for them, which is ultimately really what an eight wants to do. And they're fantastic at it. But we need them to take a little bit more time and understanding the other types and to be in relationship with them versus against them, or to be kind of at odds, or being able to push forward too much. [00:33:12] So that's what we really want the eights to know. 

The core longing for the eight is to hear, you will not be betrayed. And the great news about that is that Christ was literally the most betrayed. And so he understands what that means to want that. But also when He says it, that you will not be betrayed or forsaken, He means it. And so eights can fully rest in the protection that Christ offers them. 

Laura Dugger: I've heard something before, I'd love to hear if this is true or not, that eights, sometimes people can experience them as being insensitive, but they typically have a soft spot for children and animals. Is that true? 

Beth McCord: It is, yeah. Well, eights actually really have some of the most tender hearts on the Enneagram, and that is why they have that tough exterior. Think about if your arm had a third-degree burn, you would do pretty much anything to protect it from someone bumping into it or harming it. That's what they're doing with this very tender heart. [00:34:13] They're putting on a very strong exterior so that no one can blindside them, betray them, harm them. 

And so it comes across to some as intense, intimidating, harsh, blunt, too direct, confrontational. But to them, they don't quite see it that way. A lot of times they're shocked when people describe them in those terms. They think they're being normal, maybe a little bit more than others, but not the way others perceive them. But you'll see this tender heart pop out mostly with the innocent, which usually could reflect with babies or children or animals, especially like little puppies and kitties. 

Anything that's innocent, and especially if they see anyone harming the innocent, you will definitely see an eight's power and strength come out viscerally immediately. So yes, they are very tender with those. 

Laura Dugger: Okay. And the final number, I believe, is your number. 

Beth McCord: It is. 

Laura Dugger: And it's also my husband's, so I'm biased, but I love nines. So let's learn about them. [00:35:19]

Beth McCord: Yeah. Okay. So yeah, this is my number. The type nines are the peaceful mediators. Our core fears have to do with being in any kind of conflict or tension, loveless, shut out of relationships, in any kind of discord, and definitely being overlooked. Now, what we're wanting is, our desire is to have inner stability and peace of mind. And just kind of stability everywhere, like everyone be happy, everyone be okay. That's what we're really looking for. 

The core weakness of the nine is sloth. And this is really the desire to not be affected by life. Basically, it's an unwillingness to be fully awake to themselves, whether it's their desires, needs, abilities, talents, all of it. Because when they can not focus on themselves, they can focus on others and make them happy. The thought is, if I can make everyone else happy and okay, then I can finally be okay and there's no tension. Everything's fine. 

So the nines will overlook themselves and merge with others and go along to get along thinking that's going to bring peace and harmony. But it doesn't. You know, it only perpetuates the problem. They don't think it's going to. [00:36:30] So really, the nines can lose their voice. They don't know what they want, why they want it. And so they're just going to merge. 

Now, what the nines really long for is to hear someone say or reflect that "your presence matters, your voice matters, you're important". Because they ultimately don't think they are, that's why they're willing to give up themselves and emerge with others, because they see others as more important than themselves. 

Laura Dugger: That's so interesting because being married to one and as a seven, it's very easy for me to talk a lot. I've noticed I'm very intentional to not interrupt my husband because it may take a little bit longer to get there in the conversation. But I feel like they have so much to offer and usually have something profound if you don't derail them. 

Beth McCord: Oh, totally true. But here's the thing, they have to believe it themselves. or they're not going to even show up. That's the work of the nine. The work of the nine is to realize that Christ created you and wants you and loves you because you matter to Him. [00:37:35] He came out of heaven and came to earth to live a perfect life, die a brutal death, and to raise again because you matter. It's only until us, nines, believe that and really live that out that will recognize my views, my voice, my thoughts, and desires matter just like anyone else, not more, but just like anyone else, and I need to share instead of hoard it. 

So usually what nines do is Deep down, we kind of know we have something to offer, but we question it like, No, I don't really matter. I shouldn't say anything. But deep down, there's like the Holy Spirit saying, no, speak, move forward, do this, do that. "I don't know." So we have to take a big step of faith and try new things. do something, be confident, assert ourselves, but super hard and very scary. And our personality is screaming at us the whole time, like, "Don't assert yourself. No one's going to care. This doesn't matter." [00:38:37] 

So we have to go against that and say, No, Christ has given me something special. I can't hoard it for only myself. I need to bless others by giving it away. And that's a really hard thing. But once we start seeing it blessing others, it gets a little bit easier because that's really ultimately what we want to do.

Laura Dugger: Definitely. And it seems like it would take a lot of courage for that first step, but it really is beneficial to others. And something else with the nines that I've noticed, you can correct me if it's just something I see in my husband or if it's common for nines, is that they really relate or they can understand all the other numbers and put themselves in others' shoes. 

Beth McCord: Yes. Our superpower is we know how to be with all the types, merge with their energy, enjoy what they enjoy for the most part. If a nine doesn't like something, they know it and everyone else is going to know it because they're not going to do it. So nines don't do what they don't want to do. We can be very stubborn. But other than that, if it's something that we're not like hardcore, we'll not do this, we're pretty open. And we'll try lots of things. And we'll merge with people's lives and enjoy it for the most part and go along to get along. 

So that allows us to really get to know all the types and also to really bring in some hard messages or some really good truths in a way that the other person can hear. [00:39:59] And I know that that's kind of one reason why God put me in this position is I get the honor to work with a lot of people and tell them things that are pretty honest and true. But as a nine, I know how to say it in a way that they can listen to it and feel honored and loved, instead of saying it in a way that would really hurt and isolate them and frustrate them and anger them. That's not going to do anyone any good. So we do have that ability. 

And if nines could kind of wake up and see, if we would just step out and bless the world, so much more peace and harmony and transformation would happen. So I'm calling all my nines out there to step out into it. It's really a wonderful thing to offer others. 

Laura Dugger: Yes, and you are great at that, Beth. There were just a few more follow-up questions. As I was thinking about the one, is it common for a lot of firstborns to be ones? 

Beth McCord: I wouldn't say that birth order is necessarily going to determine the type. [00:41:00] I do think birth order affects the type. Meaning, let's say if you're even a type 9, and you're a firstborn, you might be a little bit more assertive than a type 9 who is the baby of the family. I do think the birth order does affect it because the parents are kind of looking at the firstborn to be the mature one, to be the responsible one, to be a good example. 

Now, if you're a type 1 and the firstborn, that's a pretty heavy load because not only do you have your own inner critic, but most likely you've got either society's rules that you should be this perfect firstborn child to model perfection to the rest of the kids. Or your parents might even be saying it or hoping that you'll do it. And so it just kind of makes it... it reinforces that. So does that make sense? 

Laura Dugger: Definitely. That helps clarify. One more question. You mentioned a superpower for the nines. I am curious, for the sevens, is a superpower being able to initiate friendships or relationships?

Beth McCord: Yeah, definitely. I mean, sevens, their superpowers are connectivity. They are great at connecting people with other people and not really just for their own gain. In fact, it's probably for the gain of others. [00:42:18] My dad is a seven and he loves connecting different ministries to one another. They can see, oh, you over here who have this gifting or skill set, and you over here, you guys need each other. And he knows how to bring them together. And that is just a really beautiful quality that a seven can have. 

Laura Dugger: That makes a lot of sense. That gets me fired up to think about everybody connecting and maximizing the potential there. Just processing now what you've talked about and being a seven, when you want to be taken care of, I've noticed that in that way, if somebody would initiate friendship or connection with me, that's one way that it really communicates love. So I wonder if that's a seven thing as well.

Beth McCord: Absolutely. Yeah. So usually what you're going to see in people is what they're giving to you is what they really are hoping in return. They may not be thinking that or trying to communicate that, but it too is supporting, giving, being thoughtful, strategic in their gifts and ways of helping because they really want someone to be able to do that to them. [00:43:25] 

But unfortunately, usually, it doesn't happen for all of us. All of us feel that we're not getting in return what we're longing for and what we think we're giving others. Like, why don't they do that for me? The eights want to be protected. Well, they're protecting everyone else. 

That's why the Enneagram is so great because now as a nine, I can realize when I'm with my eight friends, it's not that they don't want peace and harmony, but they see it through a totally different lens. They see peace and harmony coming from strength and yummy offense and not the defense. Well, when I can recognize that, I can feel loved by them in the way that they bring it to me or the way they offer it to me, instead of demanding it in the way that I think it should be. And that helps us to then really have a deeper relationship with one another and a deeper respect. 

Laura Dugger: And definitely helps us to love others as well, going back to the original part, why this is so important.

Beth McCord: Right. 

Laura Dugger: I know that you've said before that sometimes every number wants the same end goal, but there's a different reason that drives the why behind it. [00:44:34] So can you give some illustrations?

Beth McCord: I was thinking about packing. So let's say everyone has to pack for a trip, all nine types. Why would they pack the way they pack is going to be different. And they're all going to think their way of packing is the right way. And so it's going to be kind of fun to look at the different ways of packing. 

Well, the type one is going to think through every single day and all the things that need to happen and what's the appropriate right tire. Then they're going to make sure it's probably pressed and folded in a way that's going to have the least amount of wrinkles so that hopefully when they get there, they have the right things for the right occasions so that they look appropriate and that it's right. 

The two, they're going to want to make sure that they bring anything extra for the people that they're visiting. So maybe a little gift, maybe a trinket, maybe a card, maybe a gift card to thank them for letting them stay there. So, anything that they can do that is thoughtful on the behalf of others as they get there is really going to be important for it, too. [00:45:38] 

The three is going to make sure that, one, they have the best, most efficient luggage, first of all, and then they're going to maximize the efficiency of that luggage by packing it in a very strategic way. But at the same time, making sure that whatever they're packing is definitely going to give them the most successful image so that people can really admire them. 

Now, the Type 4s, they're going to bring only those things that are authentic and true for them. They're not trying to pack in a way that everyone else packs. In fact, they're going to pack the way they want to pack and they're going to use a luggage that represents them well. Whether it is a kind of a standard luggage, they're going to make sure theirs is unique and reflects them. 

Same with the clothes that they're going to bring and anything else is going to reflect their own personal values and creativity. And they're hoping that others will see it and be like, "Oh my gosh, that's the coolest bag I've ever seen. Or I love that shirt. That is so unique. Where'd you get it?" That will really mean a lot to the fours. [00:46:40] 

Now the fives, they're going to probably research all the luggage that's available and find the one that is going to be the best for them. for the kinds of travels that they're going to be doing. Then they're going to bring definitely maybe like a Kindle or a laptop or an iPad or something that they can continue to doing reading and research along the way. But they're probably going to minimize their luggage. They're not going to have as much as some of the other types because they just don't want to be overwhelmed and intruded on their own space, even with their own luggage. 

The sixes, they're going to sit and think about all the things that could go wrong with this trip. And then they're going to plan strategically of what they should pack in order to avert all of those things. So is it going to rain? Is it going to snow? Is it going to be hot? Is it going to be cold? Well, what if someone gets hurt? Will they have... maybe they need a little safety kit, oh, even maybe a sewing kit, just in case. So all the things like that, they're going to think through and pack for their trip. [00:47:41] 

The sevens are going to definitely make sure that whatever they pack, they're able and ready for something fun. Like, okay, well, what if something fun comes up and I need my tennis shoes? Maybe I should pack my tennis shoes. Well, what about my yoga pants? Maybe something will come up. So the sevens are going to make sure that they're ready for the fun and not be limited. 

The eights, they don't want to be controlled by anyone to pack what others want them to pack. They're going to pack what they want to pack and that's it. So they're also going to be the ones that are going to push the limits on like the airlines. If they want something, they're going to try to pack it and try to get away with it. Not because they're, you know, trying to harm anyone or hurt anything, they just want what they want and they're going to go for it. 

Then the nines, we're going to pack one, anything comfy. anything easy, nothing over the top, and we're also going to be mindful of everyone we're going to be with and every situation we're going to be at to try to accommodate for all of it, which as you can already imagine, you feel like you're going crazy because how can you do that? But that's what the nines are going to do. Like, okay, well, I'm going to be with my aunts and uncles on this side of the family and they're a little bit more formal and traditional, but my other side of the family, whereas flannels. So they're going to probably try to find something in the middle so that everyone feels comfortable with them. [00:49:02] There you go, the nine types. 

Laura Dugger: Oh my goodness, that's awesome. When you know people that are those numbers, it can be so funny when it's that accurate. We don't have enough time to dive into wings and triads and lines, but there's so much more for people to study. What resources do you recommend for them for further study and even just identifying their own number? 

Beth McCord: No, that's a great question because a lot of people think, oh, well, if I just find my type and read about that, I'm done. Well, that's not really what's going to bring the transformation you're longing for. What's going to bring transformation is understanding how the Enneagram works.

So like a GPS, you can look at a GPS, but that doesn't mean you're using it. With the Enneagram, we want you to learn how to use the features of your internal GPS. The best way to do that is called my Discovering You online course. That's going to take you through what is the Enneagram, how to use the Enneagram. Like you said, there's things called wings and triads and then there's these lines connecting all the different types. What are those? 

Those all help you to know, are you doing well, staying on your best path, or are you veering off course and falling in your common pitfall? So I'll explain all of that in that course, plus an overview of all nine types, kind of like we did today, but obviously a little bit deeper, in a two-hour overview presentation. It's broken down into 14 modules and it has a very beautifully designed workbook by my designer, Jane Butler, that will be useful for years to come. So that is Discovering You and it's under my online courses at YourEnneagramCoach.com. [00:50:40]  

The next thing is if you find your type, you want to get exploring you. These are my private coaching sessions, but now in pre-recorded videos. So I've taken the guide sheets where I break down your personality and the bite-sized lessons into this online coaching course so that you can learn, stretch, and grow without becoming overwhelmed. But it's specific to you. 

And it's not just about your type, it's how to transform and to be more like Christ. So that's exploring you. Again, that's under the online course tab of my website, yourintegramcoach.com. 

Laura Dugger: Awesome. I hope everybody gets to go check that out. You have so graciously offered for $10 off either of those courses when you use the code 10OFF. So all of us are very grateful to you, Beth, for offering that. 

You may already know that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. We just want to hear your practical tips to apply to our own lives. So as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce? [00:51:49] 

Beth McCord: So my savvy sauce would be don't commit a suicide. A suicide is where we assume others see the world and react to the world the same way we do. And so when others don't, we assume wrongly and we can be hurt or we can then end up hurting them or our relationship. Whereas with the Enneagram, you can now start to go, oh, I think they're seeing the world from a totally different perspective. Let me ask some clarifying questions before I react in a wrong way, which is committing a suicide, hurting your relationships with others. So that would be my savvy sauce. 

Laura Dugger: I love it. I truly have never met a nine that I didn't like and you are no exception. 

Beth McCord: Oh, thanks. 

Laura Dugger: You're just such an endearing person and really I'm so grateful for this time together today. So thank you, Beth. 

Beth McCord: Yeah, thank you. 

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. [00:52:50] But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. [00:53:55] Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. [00:55:03] 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. 

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time. [00:55:56]