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Practical Chats for Intentional Living
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Monday Feb 11, 2019
Monday Feb 11, 2019
*DISCLAIMER* This episode contains adult themes and is not intended for little ears.
39. Natural Aphrodisiacs in Marriage with Certified Sex Therapist, Dr. Douglas Rosenau
**Transcription Below**
Song of Solomon 4:7 NIV “All beautiful you are, my darling; there is no flaw in you.”
Dr. Douglas Rosenau has truly been a pioneer in Christian sex therapy. He isa licensed marriage and family therapist, certified sex therapist, author, speaker, adjunct professor, and co-founder of Sexual Wholeness. His training in both theology and counseling helps couples enrich and reclaim God’s wonderful gift of sexual intimacy.
At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Books by Dr. Doug with various co-authors:
Celebration of Sex for Newlyweds
Secrets of Eve by Dr. Archibald Hart, Catherine Hart Weber, and Debra Taylor
Thank You to Our Sponsor: Richmont Graduate University
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message.
I'm so excited for our new sponsor, Richmont Graduate University. This is where I received my master's degree and I have nothing but positive things to say about them. If you've never heard of Richmont, Richmont Graduate University is a faith-based, non-profit institution, and they have campuses in Atlanta, Georgia, and Chattanooga, Tennessee.
Richmont provides fully accredited graduate-level training through its School of Counseling and School of Ministry programs. Richmont also has a network of counseling centers, and in 2018, they completed over 25,000 sessions. To learn more about Richmont master's degree programs and counseling services, visit richmont.edu.
Today we get to hear from Dr. Douglas Rosenau. [00:01:18] He is a certified sex therapist and a successful author. After listening to nearly 60,000 hours of stories, he still enjoys joining new clients in their own unique journey with care and acceptance.
Today we're going to talk about natural aphrodisiacs in marriage. Dr. Doug shares many stories to portray how couples can be playful with each other and enjoy the adventure and gift of sexuality as God intended. Here's our chat.
Welcome back today, Dr. Doug.
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Thank you, Laura.
Laura Dugger: It's so good to have you with us again. For those who haven't heard our original chat, do you mind just telling us a bit about yourself?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Sure. Well, I am a missionary kid. I was actually born in Africa and grew up there and went to seminary. I think my parents were kind of happy about that because "I might go back to Africa" I think was some of their thinking, but also ministry is good.
Then I decided I really wanted... God was leading me more into counseling, being a therapist, and being a counselor. So I was working on a master's and a doctorate at Northern Illinois University in counseling. [00:02:26] One of my friends went and took a sex therapy class at Loyola Med School and so God really just laid on my heart to be a voice for healthy sexuality, especially within the Christian population, people of faith.
And it was really funny because my parents, I didn't know that at first, but they really struggled with their son, a sex therapist. That seemed really oxymoron. Christian sex therapist, that did not seem to go together at all. But over time, you know, some of their friends came and said, "You must be proud of your son because he's working in a very difficult and important area. And they became proud of me over time and actually were passing my books out before they passed away and so on
But it's been an interesting journey of really being a pioneer. I mean, I don't say that lightly but doing this in the 70s and especially the 80s and 90s and trying to sort through and really having coming again from a really Christian value system and in perspective and trying to help people of faith say sex is good, we can deal with it better. [00:03:38]
Laura Dugger: You've done a great job and contributed so much to the field which we are very grateful to you. Like you mentioned, you've worked in this field for decades and you've documented various natural aphrodisiacs over time. Can you share some of those with us today?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Yeah. When I think of an aphrodisiac, it would be something that could enhance a sex life, could enhance lovemaking. So everyone, I think, wants something artificial. There are natural aphrodisiacs. There are things that really can enhance your lovemaking, can enhance your sex life.
We're talking about what gets in the way of especially wives and fun lovemaking is just fatigue. One research study said that was the number one thing that got in the way. So I think part of one natural aphrodisiac is learning self-nurture, to try to take time to be rested. [00:04:42] And I think that that is an aphrodisiac that sometimes husbands don't recognize, that if she's got one or two or three kids, she's on call, especially if she's a full-time homemaker, even if she's working a homemaker, even worse maybe.
So things like just a natural aphrodisiac with the time and being rested might be just giving the kids a bath, you know, might be taking them to the park to let them swing on the swing set for a while. So I think that's an aphrodisiac we don't think about.
This is kind of funny. I'm in Georgia, and so I had a really country client, first time to do any type of counseling. At the end of it, I said to him, I said, "So what do you think about counseling?" And he says, "You know, Dr. Rosenau, now you ain't told me nothing my mama didn't tell me." And I said, "I bet you, if you were doing everything your mama told you, you probably wouldn't even be here." And Mama would say, Get enough sleep, you know, eat right, be healthy. And I think that's an aphrodisiac actually. That if we really are trying to sort through... [00:05:46]
And I'm even throwing in the exercise part of it too, because I really feel like another thing that really gets in the way of, oftentimes, and this is more of a female thing, with my aging clients, but the body image thing. That's a real break, you know, real turn-off at times, where wives will think, Oh, I don't know what to make... oh, I put on 20 pounds of baby weight, and I'm just not attractive.
And I'm thinking, No, that's really in your head, because probably, and this would be another natural aphrodisiac, was just thinking we're sexy, because I think that's true. I remember just recently the couple was saying... he was saying, "I don't notice the baby weight." He's like, "I love being in you. I love you. I love everything." And she's, "Oh, no, no, no, we can't really have a good sex life until I've lost his baby weight."
I finally said to her, I said, "Would you listen to him?" I just told her, I said, "Would you listen to him?" He doesn't notice it. He doesn't notice it. Please believe him. [00:06:45] But I would say, if body image is an issue, I'm more about being healthy than I am about weight. But sometimes just having flexibility and taking a yoga class will make you a better lover. If you're looking at just what did Mama tell you to do, stay healthy, eat right, get enough sleep.
So I think in aphrodisiacs, sometimes it's just those practical things like that, Laura: fighting body image issues, exercising, getting enough sleep and rest.
Laura Dugger: That is so good. And to touch on something that you brought up, I remember studying at Richmont Graduate University, and one of the first classes that I took with you as my professor, you said, similar to that example, that this woman was one of your clients and she said, "Oh, these extra few pounds of baby weight, I'm carrying them. He's just looking at me and he's going to notice my pooch or that my thighs have gotten bigger." And you said he just looks at her and says, "Oh, naked woman."
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: "Look at those nipples. Wow." Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that subconsciousness, because... you know, it's fascinating. [00:07:47] I have had clients that came in more for communication skills, other thing, sex wasn't the issue. And I thought, "Wow, they're both obese." She's 60 pounds overweight. I said, "Well, how's your sex life?" And they said, "Great. I just jump him all the time." And he's there grinning, "Yeah, she does." And I'm thinking, "Wow, that woman's accepted. I am Eve. This is the Eve that I am right now, but dread it all, it is a good Eve."
Laura Dugger: Absolutely. You've talked about other natural aphrodisiacs before, one of them being deepening intimate companionship. So what are some stories that you've heard about couples offering acts of self-sacrificing love?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Well, you know, let me talk about that too. But one of the things that came to mind when you talked about deepening intimate companionship is there really is such a thing as hotel sex. [00:08:51] There really is such a thing as vacation sex. And I've tried to think through why it's that. And I think part of it is you feel closer.
I mean, it's not that you're just at the beach and maybe you're lucky enough to be at the beach and the kids are at grandma's. I mean, that would really be lucky. But it's that you're spending that much time together and just having fun together. I think that this really is an aphrodisiac of taking time to be close and really...
I don't know if I were thinking about self-sacrificing. Maybe some of it would be usually within a couple, one of them isn't a planner. Maybe that person needs to take... sometimes it's the husband. Maybe that person needs to take the initiative to plan the vacation. You know, it is interesting how the self-sacrifice of...
Well, let me give you an example. So couples will sometimes... I'll get them to say, give me your favorite script of what it would look like for good lovemaking. [00:09:53] What oftentimes comes up is the husband taking more initiative, like even to get the babysitter or to get the kids over to their friend's house or whatever it is.
So I think some of the self-sacrificing could be, I'm taking initiative. And I don't think husbands realize sometimes how much that is an aphrodisiac to have said, You know, babe, we're going out Friday night. I've already got to sit her. Or you know what? I'm going to surprise you Friday morning. You know, we're going to a hotel tonight. What about the kids? Kids are taken care of. Your friend Jeannie's got them. We've got them. We've got it covered.
It's a turn-on. I don't think the husband even understands that that kind of attention to detail and the companionship and being able to be a little self-sacrificing, a little intentionality, how much of a turn-on it can be. Or vice versa. Like the wife saying, "Wow, we're at the beach. I'm going to put in a couple of his favorite lingeries or whatever it is, you know, we're going to have some fun together. [00:10:55] So I think there is ways that we're not doing what's natural. It is a little sacrificial, but it really pays off.
Laura Dugger: Just being more aware and intentional even in self-sacrificing. Well, and you've written about this before, that expressing empathy is different from agreeing with. Can you share more about that?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Well, actually, I got to piggyback on these examples of the gender differences because I think that there's times where we're trying to empathize, but it's not our reality. What I will say is empathy is walking in someone else's shoes, but it doesn't have to be being the other person's shoes. It doesn't have to be agreeing with it.
Like if the husband or wife says, I like oral sex, and the other person is saying, "Ah, that doesn't sound very fun to me," or "I might enjoy you doing it to me, but not me doing it to you," or whatever. And so I'm thinking, They don't have to agree. They just have to walk in each other's shoes better. Why do you like oral sex? Or why do you like this or that? Or what's going on with you? [00:12:05]
So empathy is understanding. That's my synonym. It's not agreeing. It's not thinking the same way. But if you understand, sometimes that helps you shift a little bit or helps you kind of think through what's important.
I always talk about meaning-making. You know, what would you like your sex life to mean? You know, what would you like it to express? So I think empathy really helps. So if the husband says, you know, "There's something about your body that's just arousing to me." To me, part of oral sex is just I'm close to parts of you that are really arousing that you share with no one else. And it's just fun.
Are the man saying the same thing to the wife? You know, I'm sharing parts of me that are really important to my masculinity and you're enjoying it. So if they could talk about some of the meaning-making and really the empathy more than the behavior, it would be helpful. [00:13:01] Because sometimes you can modify the behaviors.
One wife was saying to me, "I know he likes oral sex," and she says, "but there's just some part of that that, I don't know, I'm really a neat freak and I'm really OCD about stuff." And I said, Well, can you just play with his penis. I mean, just to enjoy that part of masculinity that he finds very important and kind of defining who he is at times more so than should be.
And she said, "Oh, I do that. We have fun, and I'm comfortable with that." She says, "I sometimes even kiss it." I said, "Well, you know, I think you're doing all he needs." I said, maybe if you could just keep playing with it and kiss it. So I'm trying to help them understand more empathetic than agreeing, and with the empathy, then maybe finding behaviors that work, but not getting all caught up in the behavior, rather than really trying to hear what's really being desired or needed.
Laura Dugger: Yes, getting to the heart part of it.
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Yeah. Yeah, which is an aphrodisiac, I think, to be able to talk like that and be able to hear each other's reality and to not judge it. [00:14:09] But just understand it, not agree with it or think, well, that's not something I'm gonna do. But just trying to understand it better.
Laura Dugger: Certainly. We're just gonna go through... you have a list of these. So let's talk about a few more Okay, one of them is focusing in the moment and being sexually mindful. What are some ways women have told you that they're able to bring their minds into the bedroom?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Well, I think, you know, it's kind of fascinating, Laura. We're both therapists. There's just a huge kick right now. Everything's on mindfulness. There's just so much being written and talked about with mindfulness. And then we're getting into kind of a debate: Is mindfulness Eastern, is it Buddhism or is it Christian?
I think it's just a good trade. I don't think we can assign it to a religious faith per se. Because it really is that idea. Like one of the Christian fathers said that there's a sacrament of the present moment. [00:15:12] I like that. That this moment, this moment of lovemaking is sacred. Could you please forget about the clothes being in the dryer?
I think with wives especially, and this is actually brain chemistry because wives, their left and right hemisphere has a greater connection and so they can multitask easier and they can be distracted easier too. I think that there's kind of two levels of mindfulness. I think especially with women, with wives, one level of mindfulness is just truly getting themselves into the bedroom with privacy, with connection.
Then I think the second level of mindfulness is really tuning into their bodies and allowing the feelings to be there in just pleasurable, meaningful, arousing ways. So, I think both of those.
Mindfulness oftentimes talks about spotlighting the senses and really focusing the senses. So I think that a general level of mindfulness is just being present. And then there can be a more specific level of mindfulness that actually gets into really understanding and enjoying my arousal and my ability to be orgasmic and to work on that. [00:16:19]
But I think that's very difficult. I mean, my wife will — typical of wives — sometimes in the middle of lovemaking, will lean over and say those really, you know, romantic words. Granddaughter's coming tomorrow. I'm thinking, "Yeah, that's good. Okay. I like her too." But she's thinking about things she hasn't gotten done yet. And I'm thinking about, "Wow, this is fun."
I think that whole first level of mindfulness is hard at times. Because clients will say to me, their wife will lean over and say, you know, baby's going to wake up in 10 minutes. And I'm thinking, Wow, that was really arousing. But I think that there's some of that, Oh, it's just life. But I think that there is ways that we can focus better. Maybe if the baby's going to wake up in 10 minutes, maybe you should just settle for intimacy and just kissing and cuddling and not having to go all the way. It may be a time to do that and enjoy each other. So focus. It's hard but important. [00:17:21]
You know what's fascinating too is I'm working more with aging clients, with boomers that are now 50 to 75. Or 55, 75. As men grow older, testosterone is lower, they have to learn to focus better. So mindfulness to me, for a guy who's 68, is going to be a quest also, you know, lessening distractions and being able to really be there mentally and then really focus and allow the arousal to be there.
I think there's differing populations, like women, and their multitasking ability and their distractibility are aging, that this mindfulness is really an important aphrodisiac, being able to focus and be really present.
Laura Dugger: And there's hope because it's a learned skill. So you can grow in that.
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Oh yeah.
Laura Dugger: That's encouraging. And now a brief message from our sponsor.
Sponsor: Richmont Graduate University's School of Counseling program has a proud reputation of faith integration and clinical excellence. [00:18:22] Richmont's Master of Arts in Clinical Mental Health Counseling is CACREP accredited, and graduates consistently perform in the top 15% on their National Counselor Examination.
The School of Counseling also features graduate certificates that offer specialized training for students and licensed professionals. Certificates are available in Marriage and Family Therapy, Christian Sex Therapy, Trauma Counseling, Child and Adolescent Counseling, Spirituality and Counseling Practice, and Addictions Counseling.
During my time at Richmont, specifically on their Atlanta campus, my life was profoundly changed. Spiritually, it was a season of growth through the personal connection with faculty and mentorship you benefit from as a student. And after graduation, it was easy to land my first job in California, as Richmont had a great reputation around the country.
With campuses in Atlanta, Chattanooga, and online, Richmont is known for its distinguished faculty and unparalleled in-field training. [00:19:22] The university enjoys a rich heritage beginning back in 1933. You can learn more about Richmont by visiting richmont.edu. That's richmont.edu.
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Laura Dugger: Another one that you've talked about is developing romance, adventure, and sensual variety. What are some ways that couples can explore individual inspirations?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: One just little way that would be easy is planning sexual surprises. I think that's a way to get variety in romance and to keep that lover, that flirtatious "I like you, but I'm not only your roommate and your pairing partner. I'm your lover. You are important to me". So I think that trying to plan sexual surprises. [00:20:25]
It's always fascinating to me when I give that assignment to clients, how creative they can be. One of them, it was Christmas time and so her husband was out jogging. The kids were gone that night. So she made up this palette with only the Christmas tree lights and she had on next to nothing lingerie. And when he came in the door, she was on there underneath it like his Christmas gift. Yeah, it was fun. I see a lot of different things like that that are just surprises that are playful at times or are sometimes just thoughtful. Like getting the babysitter.
The reason I thought about that with surprise is that I have had wives at times have the kids gone and truly beat their husband at the door naked. I mean, you know, behind the door so the neighbors didn't see. But I'm thinking there's all kinds of things that are just surprising that we can do that keeps the flirtation and that sense of romance.
I think also when you look at romance, I get convicted all the time as being a therapist because I'll suggest things to my clients. [00:21:27] Like I had one husband, I said, "When's the last time you got her flowers? He said, "It's been a long time." That very week my wife said, "You haven't got me flowers in a long time." And I thought, "Here I am coaching romance and I am not very romantic."
Like one of my clients, he was going to be out of town. So he just put little notes all over. And when he called her, he said, "Go look in the spice closet and look in the cookie jar or go look in whatever." I thought, Oh. Sometimes I get angry at husbands that set such a good example. It makes me feel shamed, you know, like where are my notes?
So I think there's a lot of things that we could do that are surprises, that are thoughtful, that are romantic, that really keep the buzz alive, you know, keep that energy going.
Laura Dugger: I love that. And you always use the word "playful". That is so playful. It keeps it fun and energizing. [00:22:30] Another aphrodisiac that you talk about is indulging in uninhibited feelings. So what do you see as some roadblocks to couples being able to be playful with one another?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Some of these things I've thought about so long, but I think with this one, it's the inability to be childlike. It's really fascinating to me that the great wisdom teacher Jesus said, if you really want to understand heaven, the kingdom of heaven, God, study little children. And I've really thought about that so much over the years that part of really expressing feelings is being childlike.
I think of little kids, how excited they get about, they anticipate better than we do. We've gotten jaded as adults. So they can get excited for two hours over an ice cream cone. And then I think about little children, how curious they are. I mean, they just run around naked and don't know they're naked. [00:23:30]
So I'm thinking, what do we do to really express feelings? I think part of it is learning to be childlike again, to squeal, to really express those feelings and to have more of them, and to be uninhibited around the feelings.
Here's an exercise I sometimes give my clients. I'll say, I'm in Atlanta, Georgia, so we're near an amusement park called Six Flags. Six Flags has like 10, 12 different roller coasters. So I'll say to them, I want you to go to Six Flags and just you and your wife spend a Saturday at Six Flags. If you have to take the kids, okay, but I want you to ride on about, you know, five or six or eight of the roller coasters. I want you to squeal and laugh and throw your hands up and ride in the back car, which bumps you more, and just really have fun and be childlike again. And I say, Oh, I think we could do that. That'd be hard. I think we could do that."
But here's really, I said, No, no, no, no, no. That's not my assignment. My assignment is I want you to bring all those feelings back to your bedroom. And I want you to squeal and laugh and feel like you're on the last car and just really have fun and anticipate just like a roller coaster. [00:24:32]
It's hard as adults to be that playful and to be that uninhibited with feelings. We just get our feelings kind of, especially men, but women too... We just, you know, pink boys don't cry and, you know, and we kind of push the feelings back and we don't get as excited. Because I sometimes will say, do you groan or squeal? I think for a healthy sex life, you've got to learn to express feelings.
Laura Dugger: Definitely. And that gives such a good picture to understand and bring it down to a different level.
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We've got a few more that you've mentioned. You talk about creating spontaneous structure. So breaking that down, how do couples negotiate or compromise to find a healthy rhythm for how often is good for them to connect sexually?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: I purposely put what seems like an oxymoron, spontaneous and structure. Those don't go together really. but I'm putting them deliberately together because I will say to couples, especially if they have two or three kids, I'll say, "You probably have, in a week, maybe four optimal times when you could actually have sex. So, are we going to camp on spontaneity? Are we going to camp on optimal times?
So I really feel like couple sex lives really suffer because they don't structure enough, and they don't realize that you can't be spontaneous anymore. You're going to have to be structured. It's so pleasing to me, like, couples that make a time sacred.
I was working with a couple of young couples and they knew that I didn't... They were in the same small group in their church, same small group, and they knew I never shared anything. [00:26:48] But I said, "I need to call that couple back." And he said, "Don't call them tonight. Thursday is their sex night." I said, "Is that what they call it? No, they call it their date night. They call it their date night, but they really schedule stuff off. They wouldn't pick up their phone on their date night. They make it sacred." And I thought, yes, Lord, thank you. We need to sometimes make things sacred and really have an optimal time that we protect, actually.
So it's kind of funny with that couple, small group stayed off of their date night. Mom and dad stayed off of their date night. You know what I mean? If it was a concert they were going to, it probably couldn't be Thursday night. I mean, they would make exceptions.
So where does spontaneity come in? I think spontaneity comes in during the optimal times. One couple came to me and they said, "We haven't made love in three months and we really enjoy sex." They went through the whole litany of, you know, mom came to visit and the kids got the flu and her periods and blah, blah, blah. They just tried to give me all the reasons why they like sex but hadn't made love in three months. [00:27:53]
So I just said... I gave my optimal time speech. I said, "I think that you guys are just not going to have much of a sex life if you don't really think through and structure in sometimes." So they were trying to think through one time during the week and one time on weekend. They were saying, "I think maybe Friday night would be the best night." And I said, well, why don't you just make one of them sacred?
So they were going to settle on Friday night and try to make that at least once a week for a while to see if they can get over the almost inertia that takes place when you don't have sex in a while. There's sexual inertia. A sex life at rest tends to stay at rest. And you got to kickstart.
Anyway, Friday night was the night. And I said, "Don't make me call you. Laura, these were the last words going out of my office. "Dr. Doc, you have destroyed all of our spontaneity." And I said, "Oh, three months. you haven't made love and I'm destroying your spontaneity." I said, "I am so sorry for destroying your spontaneity."
But I said to them, "I'm not destroying your spontaneity. I said, "I'm not telling you when and how, and where to do anything on Friday night." I said, "You may make your lovemaking your dessert after a really great meal out together. Or you may come home and just have the kids gone and just enjoy each other before you go out to eat. [00:29:15] Or you may have the freedom of making love on the dining room table rather than your bed. I mean, I'm not destroying your spontaneity. I'm just saying if you don't have an optimal time, I'm sorry, that structure is really, really critical if they have a great sex life.
Laura Dugger: It's so good.
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: I don't work with any couples that aren't busy. Even if they don't have children, they're way too busy to have a great sex life unless they really plan some.
Laura Dugger: Yes. I think that's crucial to hear. That's really good and practical. Let's hit on one more that you say it's communicating before, during, and after lovemaking. If couples are looking for a way to communicate today, what is one follow-up discussion question that you recommend they ask each other?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: To me, what's really important with the communicating is I'm actually wanting them to try to think through how they can communicate more about lovemaking and during lovemaking. Laura, what I would want them to really sort on would be how do you communicate about sex before lovemaking. How do you flirt? How do you initiate? How do you tease? How do you really do some anticipation and build-up?
So I think things like tonight's the night, texting, and not to her boss, but to his... you know, and just being able to have that kind of anticipation and build up. So that would be applying especially to lovemaking before. And I think during lovemaking is really important. [00:30:40] I don't think couples communicate enough during lovemaking.
Like one example that I have, and I thought this was so touching, was one of my clients had been really severely sexually abused and traumatized and so she got triggered a lot during their lovemaking. And she says, "You know what really keeps me in the present and keeps me with my husband and my lover?" I said, "What?" "When he talks to me." And she said, "He'll just talk and it's not always sexy, Doug. It's sometimes just "Oh I enjoy you" or "Isn't this fun?" And "Oh I'm looking forward to the weekend and being with you." And she said, "Just his voice keeps me present."
So I think we really lose at times some of the fun that we can have by not talking more. This was just really keeping her present and really involved. But I think it's also an aphrodisiac to be able to just spontaneously say, "Wow, that's great."
I was doing a marriage conference somewhat recently, actually last Friday. So we were talking about this, talking during lovemaking, because I think it's a real aphrodisiac. And they were saying, "Wow, so you do." And he said, sometimes we do. And I said, "I pray during lovemaking." They said, no. And I said, Yeah. I said, "Sometimes I've just been praying, Lord, thank you for her vagina. Thank you for sex. Thank you. This is such a meaningful way to feel connected and feel one flesh." And I'm just enjoying this so much. Thank you. Thank you." [00:32:02] And they were just laughing.
Then one of the young husbands in the thing said, "Well, I actually pray too. Oh Lord, please let me last." I said, "Well, that's a good prayer too, bud."
So I think during the communicating and the enjoying and the talking and just really sharing, I think that's important. Then the after is just kind of the afterglow of really saying, "Oh, that was meaningful. Wow, I enjoyed this or whatever. So I think that there's that communicating that couples can do that really gives them just that intimate connecting that they want, you know, that meaning-making that this is fun, this is affectionate, this is really something I do with no one else. So I think the talking we don't do enough of.
Laura Dugger: That's so good. And if somebody is local here in Atlanta, and they want to meet with you or schedule an appointment to learn more about these things or improve their sex life, where would you direct them to go?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Well, where you went to graduate school, Richmont Graduate University. [00:33:04] We have a sex therapy track. Actually, Atlanta really is blessed with a lot of sex therapists. But they can call me Doug Rosenau, R-O-S-E-N-A-U. The non-profit that I work with and help found is called Sexual Wholeness. And we're just working on our website now, but we have a good sexualwholeness.com. One word, sexualwholeness.com.
We have a list of sex therapists there. Our certifying board is called the American Board of Christian Sex Therapists. So we have up there our associate and certified people around the country. So that would be another resource that they could have, sexualwholeness.com. They could go there and they could find resources, perhaps in their state at least, that could be helpful for them.
Laura Dugger: That's great. Then additionally, you've also published quite a few books. Could you just share a little bit about those so somebody who isn't local here could still go to Amazon and find one of these if they wanted to learn more about these topics?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Okay. Well, one of them is called Total Intimacy. I talk about the colors of intimacy and just how to build a better sex life. This may be stale or maybe trauma through an affair or other things or sexual abuse. [00:34:15] So it really is a good book for husbands and wives and a lot of good discussion questions and practical advice. Total Intimacy, just 100 pages.
Then I also have written a book called A Celebration of Sex. And that's kind of my big manual that's been out since 94. It's the second edition. I'm thinking of a third edition. I always tell people when you get a 400-page manual, it's only... they should bump the price. But it's only like 18 bucks, which is pretty amazing in today's... it should be 26, but that's okay.
So I think A Celebration of Sex would be one that would be worth buying, even if it's for a couple chapters in it. You know, just pick and choose. Body image or making love during the children years or whatever, you know the world's greatest lover which is more about attitude than it is about technique.
Then I've spun off from A Celebration of Sex to A Celebration of Sex After 50 for aging. Then I have A Celebration of Sex for Newlyweds which is just a 135-page book that kind of condenses some of the bigger concepts in the A Celebration of Sex. [00:35:15]
Laura Dugger: And there's one that you're working on currently that we can be looking out for a revised edition for singles. Could you tell us about that?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Yeah. I just really feel like singles are neglected. And so often in my Christian background, we say to wait, but we never say why we're disciplining genital sexuality and why we feel like genital sexuality should be more, it can only be really fully expressed in the trusting committed relationship of marriage.
It's called Soul Virgins. I'm gonna rework it some but it's the idea of a bigger picture. It's not what you're not doing, it's how can God call you to be sexually whole as a person, how can God help you embrace horny. That's a big word in my book. You need to embrace horny. All of us have sexual desire and arousal. It's what we choose to do with it that can affect us. It's not that we have them that's wrong. It's just how we choose to steward them, to discipline them really.
That that'll be a book I would... yeah. If you have single friends and ones that are trying to make sense of sexuality. So now it's titled Soul Virgins. And soul in scripture oftentimes is just the total personhood, a three-dimensional body, mind, and heart personhood. [00:36:30] So I'm trying to say [euchacity?] is more than just what you don't do or do. It's your personhood. It's what you're trying to create, both single and married. Yeah.
Laura Dugger: That's so good. Thank you for sharing about all of those. I know they will help a lot of people. We're called The Savvy Sauce here for a reason. "Savvy" means practical knowledge or insight. So today as our final question, Dr. Doug, we'd love to hear, what is your savvy sauce?
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: My savvy sauce today would be forget about spontaneity. Find those optimal times and get a regular sex life. It is amazing what that is intended to do to clear the air, to keep you connected, to keep you intimate. So really talk with your mate, what would be at least one time a week that we're going to try to keep sacred? What would be another time or two that we could fall back on or that we would enjoy together? So I think I would just say let's find some optimal times and make them sacred. [00:37:31]
I don't think sometimes couples think through how having a good sex life isn't optional, that that really is God's intent for marriage, and that there really is a way... It's fascinating that couples that do have a good sex life, they don't argue as much and the arguments don't last as long. Somehow sex clears the air.
It makes them feel more connected. They cut more slack somehow. Some of the research would say that a good sex life like that in marriage really does actually prolong your life, and it really is a stress release, and that those couples that make love frequently are happier. I like to think that as a sex therapist.
But I don't think we do think through sometimes that this is not just us saying, do it. This is us saying, there's tremendous benefit by trying to find that out the whole time and that having regular connecting. I don't think wives understand at times that making love to their husband more than anything else makes them feel an item. I think more than anything else makes them feel... because wives will sometimes say to me, "Why does he go around grinning for a day or two?" I'm saying it's not just because he had an orgasm. It's because he really feels connected and likes you more somehow with just all that oxytocin flowing and the hormones and other kinds of things.
So I think it really is so bonding. And more so sometimes and couples really even understand and it clears the air and it just is... it also is to me a way for adults to play. You know, how do we be childlike and play as adults? Well, God gave us sex, you know, in marriage. That really can be a playground. You know, a time of just really having fun together. [00:39:15]
I think that when we look at the optimal, we've got to be careful to really realize this is important. There's a lot of benefits to this.
Laura Dugger: Certainly. Well, that's such a great note to end on today. Thank you for all that you've contributed to this field. Thank you for your continuing work and encouraging even the next generation and your resources that are out there. You're a wonderful friend, and I appreciate your time today.
Dr. Douglas Rosenau: Thanks.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. [00:40:17] But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. [00:41:17] Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. [00:42:18]
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
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