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Practical Chats for Intentional Living
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Monday Mar 24, 2025
Monday Mar 24, 2025
257. Mother Daughter Relationship During Teen Years and Beyond with Sandra Stanley and Allie Stanley Cooney
"Love never fails." 1 Corinthians 13:8a NIV
**Transcription Below**
Sandra Stanley received her Bachelor of Science degree from Georgia Tech and Master of Arts from Dallas Theological Seminary. Sandra has a heart for foster kids and foster families, as she and Andy have been foster parents since 2010. Her ministry passion is promoting foster care in the local church. Much of her time these days is spent working on various writing projects and continuing her involvement with Fostering Together, the foster care initiative of North Point Ministries. Connect with her online:
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sandrawstanley
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sandra.w.stanley/
- X: https://twitter.com/sandrawstanley
- Website: https://www.sandrastanley.com/
Allie Stanley Cooney graduated from Auburn University with a degree in Communication. She completed the North Point Residency program and simultaneously earned a Masters of Christian Education degree from Dallas Theological Seminary. With a decade of experience guiding students along their spiritual journeys, Allie is passionate about empowering middle school, high school and college students to embrace a life devoted to following Jesus wholeheartedly. She has a heart for middle school and high school students and can often be spotted at any number of local coffee shops pouring into girls in those seasons of life.
Connect with her on socials:
Questions and Topics We Cover:
- How can understanding the three potential relationship stages help these daughters navigate relationships with friends and with boys?
- When we coach our daughters through developing friendships, what questions do you suggest we ask for clarification and what Scripture do you share for understanding our responsibility within friendships?
- I love how you both emphasize alone time with Jesus. How can we learn and apply this?
Other Episodes Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce:
200 Planting Seeds of Faith in Our Children with Courtney DeFeo
196 Parenting for the Relationship with Sandra Stanley
Related Episodes on The Savvy Sauce:
Intentional Questions to Ask Our Kids with Susan Seay
207 Cultivating Character in Our Children with Cynthia Yanof
212 School Series: Benefits of Homeschooling with Jodi Mockabee
217 Tween/Teen Females: How to Navigate Changes during Puberty with Dr. Jennifer Degler
220 Cultivating Healthy Family Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman
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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”
Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
**Transcription**
Music: (0:00 – 0:08)
Laura Dugger: (0:09 - 1:46)
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Duggar, and I'm so glad you're here.
Leman Property Management Co. has the apartment you will be able to call home, with over 1,700 apartment units available in Central Illinois. Visit them today at lemanproperties.com or connect with them on Facebook.
I am so excited to get to host these guests, Sandra Stanley and her daughter, Allie Stanley Cooney. They have co-authored this amazing book entitled, Meet Me in the Middle, and throughout it I just loved their sense of humor. I appreciated their witty comments that had me laughing in the middle of their stories, but I also appreciate the practicality this book has to offer.
If you think back, Courtney DeFeo was a previous guest and we discussed the treasured Bible study, which is a great thing for mothers to walk through with their tween daughters, maybe girls of approximately ages 10 to 12, so I'll make sure and link that episode in the show notes, but today's book that we're kind of emphasizing is really good as that next step to highlight perhaps with your junior high or high school daughter. It's a beautiful book because you get really both real perspectives of the mother and the daughter from two drastically different angles, and that's kind of what our conversation is gonna look like today as I get to interview mother-daughter duo, Sandra and Allie. Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Sandra and Allie.
Sandra Stanley: (1:59 - 2:03)
Thank you for having us.
Allie Stanley Cooney:
Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here.
Sandra Stanley:
We really are.
Laura Dugger: (2:04 - 2:13)
Well, I would love for us to just begin with the two of you sharing some of the hardest and sweetest phases that you've walked through in your own mother-daughter relationship.
Sandra Stanley: (2:14 - 4:00)
Okay, well, let's see. Allie, this is funny and this kind of weaves through probably every question, but we are wired very differently from each other, and I am more analytical, efficient, organized, you know, all that. Allie is so creative and just spontaneous, and she is the best content creator and all of that kind of stuff, and I obsess over the details of did I capitalize everything and spell everything, and so while that has been amazing in this project working together because we kind of, you know, can just sort of coach each other along in our strengths, there were some times along the way in when she was growing up that that would just naturally cause some clashes, and that is mostly on me because I have a hard time understanding why efficiency didn't make it to the fruits of the spirit list, and you know, in parenting, efficiency is not the goal. The relationship is the goal, and I would switch those sometimes and err on the side of trying to be efficient, so often when we had those difficult times, it was on me, not her, because of all that kind of stuff, so the sweetest part, though, is she has always inspired me.
Even when she was a kid, she just had a maturity and a desire to have an intimate relationship with the Lord from an early, early age, and I think she just challenged Andy and me both in our just our personal walks with the Lord and authenticity and a bunch of things like that, so it's been a sweet relationship, and we pretty much talk all day long.
Allie Stanley Cooney: (4:00 - 4:34)
Yeah, I was gonna say the sweetest season, I think, is definitely this one because I had a baby girl about two years ago, and I remember holding my baby girl for the first, second, third time, whatever, and just like, I love her so much, I'm so overwhelmed, and then looking at my mom and being like, wait a minute, you've loved me this much this whole time? Like, that's crazy. So I think getting to be a mom and doing this project together and all the things, I think this season has been definitely one of the sweetest for sure.
Laura Dugger: (4:34 - 5:07)
I think that's very encouraging to anybody raising children in their home, but with your book, there were so many topics for mothers and daughters, but I'd love to first focus on this one section that you title, Finding Your People, and it's where you're talking about relationships, especially with friends and with boys, and so Allie, how can understanding the three potential relationship stages help these daughters navigate relationships with friends and with boys?
Allie Stanley Cooney: (5:08 - 7:43)
Yeah, definitely, so how our book is laid out, a little bit of context, my mom wrote the first eight chapters to the moms, and then I wrote the back eight chapters to the girls, and we go through these different topics, and one of the topics, like you said, is friends and boys, so when I was thinking about that chapter, there's some, I feel like when you're in middle school, when you're in high school, friends and boys, that's what you're thinking about, that's what you care about, that's what probably you want to read about if you're gonna have to read something, so I wanted to break this down in a way that it's not natural for, you know, middle schoolers and high schoolers to think about, so we break down the three, the three potential stages, stages, that's what I'm looking for, we break down the three stages and let them know that in each stage of a potential relationship, you're called to love, and so the first stage is just before you enter into this relationship, or before you become really close friends, when you're kind of thinking through, is this something I want, is this something that will be good for you, asking the questions like, does this person make me more like Jesus, is this person a good influence, will this person help my life be better, or will it ultimately make it worse, and what does it look like to navigate that season really well, and then the next season is when you're in the relationship, and how can you love that person well while also honoring yourself and honoring that person, and then the last one I think is my favorite, because I think we forget about it potentially, and obviously a lot of our relationships, my best friend that I met in middle school is still one of my very best friends, but a lot of relationships that you have in middle school and in high school, they tend to go away, so there is a stage that is after the relationship, whether that's a breakup, or you just kind of drift apart, whatever that looks like, and the reminder that we're still called to love, because I know culture especially is like, breakup, you should just say horrible things about them, and trash them, and if anybody's friends with them, then you can't be friends with them, and I think the reality is, no, even when the relationship is over, you're still called to love them, and that doesn't mean you need to be with them, or anything like that, but it does mean being kind about them, being thoughtful, being gentle, even when you're no longer in that relationship, so I think that's something that students don't really think about, once the relationship is over, it's like moving on, yeah, you're not called to anything anymore, so yeah.
Laura Dugger: (7:44 - 8:13)
I love it, and you really highlight the scripture in 1 Corinthians 13, and so even though your lessons there were directed at daughters, there's something for each of us to learn for relationships, and Sandra, I'd love to hear from your side too, when we're coaching our daughters through developing friendships, what questions do you suggest we ask for clarification, and what scripture do you share for understanding our responsibility within friendships?
Sandra Stanley: (8:14 - 10:28)
Yes, great question. Well, and Allie talked about the structure of the book a little bit, you know, that we have eight topics. I write eight to the mom’s. She writes eight to the girls, in the middle is the meet me in the middle section, where they come together, and where they can have these conversations, so that's the time when maybe we are talking about, okay, what is a good friend, you know, what does a good friend look like, what are some characteristics of someone that you want to be friends with, and that you want to see every day, and do life together with, what are those characteristics, what makes a lifelong friend, you know, what's the difference between a short-term friend and a long-term friend, what causes friendships to be short-term, you know, what are the things that can cause one to end, and another big question that we talk about is, do you, and do I, and this all applies to us too, not just to the girls, so when we're doing this meet me in the middle section, and having these conversations, this is a two-way conversation, and I think as moms, it's so important for us to be, you know, authentic, and to dive in and say, yeah, I kind of still struggle with this too, but do I want to become more like this potential friend, that's a big question, is there, you know, is this a person that I want to be like, because scripture is clear in Ephesians 5, “He who walks with the wise becomes wise, and companion of fools suffers harm.” That's an important thing to talk about with our kids. You are going to become more like the people that you spend time with. Another question is: Is this somebody I want to introduce my mom and dad to? I remember there were talking with our middle son years, you know, after college, after he was already married. He said, you know, I always knew, this is not a person for me, if I knew it wasn't someone that I would want to bring home and introduce to you and dad, or to Allie. You know, is this somebody that I want Allie to be friends with for the next bunch of decades, so you know, is this somebody I want to introduce my family to, and so we do take a deep dive into 1 Corinthians 13, the love chapter, Allie asked the girls to circle the characteristics of love, I asked the moms, hey, play along, circle the characteristics of love, let's talk about what it really looks like to love, and let's talk about what it really looks like to have friends who are lovely, and who we want to spend more time with.
Laura Dugger: (10:29 - 10:58)
There's so much wisdom in that, and then I think one of your secret sauces, just as a family in general, is your practical teaching, and so if we're taking this even further, let's dive in, it's between pages 64 and 65, but there are a few quotes that I'd love for you to unpack, and one of the first ones is, don't trade what you want most for what you want in the moment.
Sandra Stanley: (10:59 - 11:01)
Right, right, do you want to talk about that?
Allie Stanley Cooney: (11:01 - 11:43)
Yeah, so I think it's really easy, especially when you're in middle school and high school, and you want to be popular, and you don't want to be left out, and you might want to have a boyfriend, and the reality is, if you just zoom back a little bit, you know, it's like, okay, what do you ultimately want? You ultimately want a healthy family, you ultimately want things in the future, and unfortunately, in middle school and high school, there are certain decisions that you can make that can ultimately compromise what you ultimately want, and so I think having that wisdom and that forethought of, why don't you even think about what you want? Like, have you ever sat down and thought about what you want in your future?
Let's do that together, and then back it up from there, and then see if you're making decisions that will lead to that.
Sandra Stanley: (11:44 - 12:55)
Yeah, I think so, and the good thing about the book is moms can contextualize some of this to the age of their daughters, so if it's an older daughter, and she's in a relationship where, you know, there's likely to be some struggle with, you know, how far do I go physically, you know, what are my standards going to be, is all that, to relate to all that, this particular quote is such an important thing to talk about.
Don't trade what you want most for what you might want in the moment, and that speaks, you know, really loudly to a physical relationship, and one of the good things about doing this meet-me-in-the-middle-with-a-daughter is you can have these conversations ahead of time, before there's a face, you know, that we're talking about, or a particular boyfriend or friendship. We can have these conversations early, and then when these things come, we can go back and go, hey, remember what we talked about, about don't trade what you want most for what you want in the moment? Let's just, I want you to go on this date, but I want you to remember that, you know, the decisions that you're gonna make now, they're gonna impact what your future is gonna be like, and the story that you're gonna tell, so that was, that was just kind of what we were, had in our minds as we talked about, don't trade what you want most for what you want in the moment.
Laura Dugger: (12:55 - 13:06)
Well, then you follow it up with, don't let your future be negatively influenced by people who won't even be in your future, and I think that kind of...
Allie Stanley Cooney: (13:07 - 13:41)
I remember that clicking when I was in high school. I remember, I was dating a guy, and I was like, no, I don't want to marry him, like, no, like, that'd be crazy. What?
And then I'm like, why am I dating him? Like, yeah, I don't want anything, I don't want my friendships impacted, like, I don't want to push my friendships away because I'm spending more time with him. Like there's so many things other than just physical boundaries, which obviously that's a huge one too.
But even aside from that, people who aren't going to be in your life long-term do have the potential to affect your future. So I think that's a really important one too.
Sandra Stanley: (13:41 - 14:28)
And affect the relationships that you want to carry into your future. Your good friends, you know, the people that you want to spend time with. So that's a really important one, I think.
And these are great conversation topics. You know, even if you write it on a card and hand it to your daughter and say, hey, let's talk about what this looks like. Don't let your future be negatively influenced by people who won't even be in your future.
And this is where the mom in the conversation that they're having in the meet me in the middle section can talk about a relationship that she can remember having that she thought was going to be forever. And it was, you know, seven months of her life. And then it was over.
So having those opportunities to have these conversations with our girls is so important. And these two particular quotes are really important to talk about ahead of time.
Laura Dugger: (14:29 - 14:52)
Certainly. And it just circles back to even Allie, those three things that you were talking about earlier, those three stages, your conclusion in that section is love never fails. And so if we actually are loving in the way the list of first Corinthians 13 love list, then that is hopefully going to set our daughters and us as mothers up for success.
Sandra Stanley: (14:52 - 14:53)
Absolutely.
Laura Dugger: (14:54 - 16:57)
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And Sandra, would you mind just setting the scene, take us back to that day that you walked into your sweet daughter's messy room?
Sandra Stanley: (16:59 - 19:08)
Which time? So, this is so funny, and it goes back to how we're wired so differently. I have a place for everything and everything has its place, and I clean up as I go, and all of that kind of stuff, and my sweet, creative daughter just operates differently.
But that manifests itself in a messy room, which really wasn't okay. And growing up, obviously, we want to teach our children just good habits and being tidy and all the things that are gonna serve them well later. So there was one particular day, she was at school, and I had been in her room doing something and realized, wow, this is kind of off the chart messy.
And so when she gets home, we're gonna have to have a conversation about this whole thing. So fast forward, we get to the afternoon, Allie's upstairs, and I know she's up there in her room, so this will be a good time. And I wasn't always the best at picking my approach or my timing, but I did work on it.
So by the time she was in high school, I think I was better maybe at that. She might not think so. But anyway, so anyway, so I walk in her room and I look, and she's sitting on the floor, just furiously typing.
And she goes, mom, before I can even say anything, mom, my girls are going into high school, I'm getting ready to leave to go to college, and there's just some things I need them to know. So I'm writing Allie's rules for high school. And she said, let me read them to you.
So she starts reading this list. And with every single one, my heart just started, I mean, I just started melting into the messy floor with her because I thought this is so much more important. If I were to describe the bullseye on the target in parenting, it would have nothing to do with the clean room.
It would have everything to do with the character of her heart. And as she was writing and reading me these rules, I thought this is Allie's heart on display. And it just kind of was a life changing moment for me.
And then I asked her if I could put it on my blog. I was actively blogging at the time. And she's like, sure, nobody will see it.
So you can put it on your blog.
Allie Stanley Cooney: (19:09 - 19:09)
Cute little blog.
Sandra Stanley: (19:09 - 19:37)
And as it turned out, it went viral and was all over the place and radio shows in the mornings and all that. On the first day of school, back to school in Fulton County in Atlanta, there was the Burt Show, I think it's still show, Burt Show, a radio show, drive time show. And he was reading them, reading them off.
And everybody in his studio was all commenting on each one of them. So as all of Fulton County is driving to school, Allie's rules for high school were being read to them.
Laura Dugger: (19:38 - 19:45)
Wow. I mean, I guess knowing the list, it doesn't surprise me that it would go viral.
Allie Stanley Cooney: (19:46 - 19:48)
And I- Surprised me, for sure, yeah.
Laura Dugger: (19:49 - 19:59)
Well, I envision mothers and daughters even listening to this conversation together. I do wonder if my daughters would love to pause and go back and say, remember, mark of good parenting is not a clean room.
Sandra Stanley: (20:00 - 20:03)
So- Right, they're gonna bookmark that statement, yeah.
Laura Dugger: (20:04 - 20:10)
I was guilty of that too, growing up. But Allie, would you be willing to share some of those rules with us?
Allie Stanley Cooney: (20:10 - 21:44)
Yeah, no, I'd love to. Well, I will say, so I was going into high school as the small group girls that I was leading. No, no, sorry, I was going into college while the small group girls I was leading were going into high school.
And there was just a lot of things I wanted them to know and to remember and things we had talked about and things that maybe I had learned the hard way or watched my friends learn the hard way. So I will say, hearing them go, like I didn't write them for everybody to hear them. You didn't write them for a universal audience.
No, I think I would have written them differently, but it's sweet now and I'm glad. So I'll just read a couple. I won't do all of them because there's 20 in the book.
But one, surround yourself with people who build you up, not with people who tear you down. Have an accountability partner and be willing to tell her everything. Emphasis on her.
Yep, be so, so, so, so, so, so careful about who you date. This one's my favorite. I don't know why, I just, I really, this one hits home.
If you're wondering if you should break up with him, break up with him. That's the one I learned the hard way. Yep.
Pray, pray, pray. Don't ever forget how much you need God. Have a quiet time.
It may seem like a hassle, but it will help you stay close to God. Be nice to your parents. They love you and want what's best for you.
So if you disagree with them, just remember that they're a lot smarter than you. Sorry about that. Never be afraid to say no.
When you fall on your face, get back up. There's a bunch more, but the last one is one of my favorites and it's selfies are for faces. That sounds like a good one.
Sandra Stanley: (21:44 - 21:49)
That was such an insightful one just for girls to hear. Silly. You know, you do a face, a face.
Allie Stanley Cooney: (21:49 - 21:52)
I mean, it was mostly like an inside joke.
Sandra Stanley: (21:52 - 22:03)
So there were several that were inside jokes for them, which didn't make fun and didn't make a lot of sense on the radio to drive time in Fulton County, but they made it all funny and fun.
Allie Stanley Cooney: (22:03 - 22:05)
So that's a couple of them.
Laura Dugger: (22:05 - 22:17)
I actually thought that was one of my favorites as well. It was put in a succinct way. And at that time, you were just a few years ahead of them.
And so hearing that from you lands differently than hearing that from mom.
Allie Stanley Cooney: (22:18 - 22:18)
Yeah.
Laura Dugger: (22:19 - 22:35)
But Allie, you're kind of explaining, it was one of those decisions, if you reverse back a little bit, can you share, you write that it was one of the best decisions to grow your faith. And it's something pretty replicable that I'm hoping others will grasp onto as well.
Allie Stanley Cooney: (22:35 - 23:12)
No, and that was, if I'm remembering correctly, what I wrote in there, there's a couple of things, but deciding to be a middle school small group leader when I was in high school was probably the best decision I made for my faith because it caused me to take it really seriously. It made me realize, oh, the decisions I make aren't just going to affect me, it's actually now gonna affect these girls. I remember having a moment where I realized, okay, I don't wanna make any decision where I'm gonna be tempted to lie to these girls about it.
Cause you know, middle school girls, they asked me everything.
Sandra Stanley: (23:13 - 23:13)
No boundaries.
Allie Stanley Cooney: (23:13 - 23:46)
And they were all in my business. And so realizing like, okay, I don't wanna make a decision where if they ask me, which they will, I don't want to be tempted to lie to them. So what did those decisions look like?
What would I be proud to tell them? And ultimately what decisions do I want them to make when they're in high school? So it not only drew me a lot closer to Jesus, cause they also would ask me theological questions and like faith questions.
And I was like, I don't know, let me dive in. But also it was a really cool accountability that I really loved having in high school.
Sandra Stanley: (23:47 - 24:21)
This is really one of the things that we've done for a long time in our church. And that is allow our high school students to partner with an adult to lead these small groups. And it just has, it has impacted all three of our kids in their faith journey.
And again, to Allie's point, a big part of it is accountability. Like, oh my goodness, I don't want my girls or my guys to, I don't wanna do something that's gonna cause me to either have to lie or that would be disappointing to them. And so I think it was a, I think it's a great part of the program, yeah.
But so volunteering, always huge.
Laura Dugger: (24:22 - 24:32)
Agreed. And to get our students into ministry where they get to experience leadership early on, I think that's so profoundly impactful for faith.
Sandra Stanley: (24:32 - 24:33)
That's exactly right, yes.
Laura Dugger: (24:34 - 24:59)
Well, and something else that both of you emphasize, which I especially appreciated, was spending alone time with Jesus. And Allie, you were saying that we have to incorporate foundational beliefs and practices into our lives, specifically through two steps, learning and applying. So, will you elaborate on both of those parts?
Allie Stanley Cooney: (25:00 - 26:11)
Yeah, so I, yeah, I mean, that's how we grow our faith. We can't have a faith if we don't know anything, and then we can't really have a faith if we're not putting what we know into practice. So, the learning really just looks like reading your Bible.
You know, it looks like it's those really obvious, quote unquote, steps. If you go to church, you've listened to the message and you take in the information about Jesus and about scripture and about God and about who you are and about who people are, and that's you’re learning. You have to learn, you have to take in the information.
And then the second one is when you put it into practice, you know, you actually live out what scripture says, you live out what you're learning in church, you love the people around you well, you root yourself and establish yourself in the love of Jesus and who he says you are, and you walk in your identity. So, it's so multifaceted and there's a lot to it, but ultimately, if you can break it down and tell the girls, hey, we learn, and then we take what we learn and we do it, and that's how you grow your faith. And even when it gets hard, you keep going.
And even when people push back, you keep doing it, you keep learning, and you keep applying. And ultimately, that's how your faith grows.
Sandra Stanley: (26:12 - 26:20)
And that is how a Jesus follower consistently follows Jesus. So, it's such an important thing. Yeah, absolutely.
Laura Dugger: (26:21 - 26:52)
Well, and even one example of that, you first of all say, keep continually putting truth in front of you, but then you go a step further and you say, well, even before that, spend a little bit of time thinking about the best way to keep truth in front of you. And you challenge readers to consider the routines and rhythms of their normal day and see where they can put important truths in. So, do either of you have an example of how you do that in your own life?
Allie Stanley Cooney: (26:53 - 27:54)
Yeah, and it's looked really different throughout my life. And I think I wanna give permission to these girls that it's okay if it looks different than somebody else, because we learn and we feel close to our heavenly father in different ways than everybody else and in different seasons of life. So, I remember when I was in middle school, I had a devotional, and it was very story-based.
It was like made up stories, but it had something to learn at the end of it. It had a moral and it was always Jesus-centered, and it was always about simple things like generosity and gratitude. And reading stories for me was how I connected with God.
And then as I got older, I started reading scripture for myself and I'm a huge journaler. So now my time looks a lot like reading scripture and journaling and then journaling some more and then reading scripture. And that's kind of where I find my time with the Lord.
Yeah, but it's definitely changed over time.
Sandra Stanley: (27:54 - 31:31)
I would say that mine has changed in different seasons of life too. When you're single and you've got lots of flexibility and time, it really looked one way for me. It was morning and it was longer and all of that.
In the parenting seasons, it looked different throughout that journey when the little ones, I would try to get up before them and try to get my quiet time in, but it really did. It ebbed and flowed in the amount of time I was able to spend and all of that. In this season, I have more time.
And for me, it's always been better in the morning. I know some people are better at night and that's fine. For me, it's been morning, and I just have to have my space, my particular place that I go with all my quiet time materials there.
And when I'm there, it just, the distractions are minimal. And that’s because that's just my place to be alone with my heavenly father. I've got a little spot to pray and a spot to sit and read and study.
And so that's what it looks like for me. I am so often asked by moms; do we make our kids have a quiet time? Do I make my middle school son or my middle school daughter or high school daughter have a quiet time?
And I always say, no, you don't need to make them do it. But I suggest three things. You model it, you encourage it, and you make it easy.
You model it, you encourage it and make it easy. So, I, my kids saw me and Andy having quiet times their whole childhood. And again, it looked different, different seasons, but they knew that we both spent time in the word and in prayer.
And that just modeled it for them. So, it was something that they just grew up kind of assuming is a given, which is a good thing, but you can also encourage it. And that's one of the things that we did was we just helped them as they got older, figure out what does this look like for you?
You know, what kind of, are you a morning person? Are you an evening person? Is this gonna be, you know, just helping them figure out best times and best practices and all that for their personality and temperaments.
And then making it easy. We always made sure our kids had age-appropriate Bibles in every season, starting when they couldn't even read little picture Bibles that were their own. We wanted them to have their own Bible and never remember a time that they didn't have their own.
And so we just made sure that, you know, different seasons of their lives, they had age appropriate Bibles. And one of the things that I did, and this is just a kind of a, maybe a little fun thing, their Easter baskets every year, while, you know, it always had some chocolate bunnies, you know, and all the normal Easter basket things, I always made sure that there were quiet time tools in their Easter basket that were age appropriate and, you know, proclivity appropriate based on what they liked. And, you know, one of our sons was a reader, one wasn't so much a reader, but if it was about an athlete and the athlete's testimony, they would both read that.
So, I would put all kinds of different things for Allie, journaling stuff, pens, colored pencils, just anything that I thought would encourage their journey in a quiet time. That was my big time to do that. And then of course, other times of the year, we would add some things, but model it, encourage it, make it easy.
And that's the best way to set your kids up to maybe make this as a habit. And even when they don't, nagging isn't gonna help, so don't nag, you know, don't nag under the guise of I'm just reminding them, but model it, encourage it in the appropriate ways and then make it easy.
Laura Dugger: (31:31 - 31:48)
And I even thought there was additional practical wisdom that you shared within that section, just encouraging the mamas, guard your time. And how do you see that intentionality tying over into our time with the Lord?
Sandra Stanley: (31:48 - 34:00)
Definitely it ties over. I think, you know, as we think about motherhood and Allie is experiencing this now, there's a whole other layer of busyness that gets added to your life. It's almost like the things on your calendar double.
And then as they get older, it's even more and more intense as they get older, because everybody, you know, has jobs. So, in this season with these moms of middle school and high school girls, they might be having their first little jobs or and your other kids also. So anyway, it's just a busy season and our time is limited.
So, we always say, Andy and I say this all the time to parents, your time is limited. So, you've got to limit what you do with your time. And when you make it a priority to have that time alone with your heavenly father, that's one of your biggest yeses.
And then they're just going to be some no's in different seasons. I call them categorical no's in different seasons of parenting. When the kids were little, I had all these categories of things that are just a no for now.
This might be a yes for later. It's a no for now. So, things like I'm doing now, like writing projects or speaking, or, you know, just stuff like that were no's when my kids were young, because those are so time consuming.
And so those were no for now, but not forever categories of things. So, I would say to moms and to daughters, you know, your time is limited. So, you've got to limit it.
And so, you know, pay attention to what the most important things are. And I would say, go so far as to say calendar those things, put those things on your calendar and treat them like appointments. Because typically the mom is the calendar keeper for the whole family.
And what we put on our calendars, what we actually do. And so I've always used my calendar that way to make sure that the most important things are on the calendar, even little things like call my grandmother, you know, back during those seasons, because I would get busy and, you know, two weeks would go by and, you know, I knew my time with her was limited. So just even little things like that I've always calendared.
And I think our quiet time may be something we need to calendar and give it a time slot. And, you know, for me, again, I'm the efficiency person. So that just works for me.
That doesn't necessarily mean that's for everybody, but it works for me.
Laura Dugger: (34:00 - 34:23)
I think that's so good, Sandra. Thank you for sharing. And the two of you wrote about a couple really helpful words in a different section that was titled Family is Forever.
So, can you speak to the roles that gentleness and gratitude play in creating an enjoyable family culture? Yes.
Allie Stanley Cooney: (34:23 - 34:31)
Yeah, well, I feel like a lot of girls feel like they don't have a lot of control within their family dynamics.
Sandra Stanley: (34:31 - 34:34)
So, this was the topic on family in the book.
Allie Stanley Cooney: (34:34 - 36:07)
So, you don't choose your family. You're not choosing what you're having for dinner. You're not choosing your curfew or your classes.
A lot of times in that season, it can feel like there's no control. And so, I wanted to give the girls a couple things that, hey, you do have a choice in these and you do control these as far as it depends on you. And so those things were appreciation, forgiveness, and gentleness.
So, appreciation, you can choose to appreciate your family. You can choose to appreciate your mom. You can choose to say thank you to the people around you for what they do.
Forgiveness, you choose to forgive. And then gentleness. This came a lot from my relationship with my brothers specifically.
How is the youngest of three? Of the youngest, I have two older brothers, and they were mean. Not gentle.
They were mean. And so, learning like, hey, they want you to respond in aggression. They want you to get angry.
That's kind of- They want a reaction. They want a reaction from you. And so responding in gentleness is actually how you deescalate the situation.
And I think that those things, it kind of gives girls like, oh, I'm not totally helpless. I'm not totally out of control. I can actually choose these things and I can choose to do them or not.
And I can see how it positively affects the family or if I choose not to do them, how it negatively affects the family. And we all have ownership in the family culture and vibes and feelings. And so, I think that helps the girls kind of have a grasp on something in their family.
Laura Dugger: (36:08 - 38:01)
That's so good. And even, not that either one is more important for the other, but I really was thinking that sets children apart if they are grateful. And that sets parents apart if they are gentle and both are obviously encouraged in the Bible.
So I just thought that was incredible how you drew that out.
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I'll make sure and link to that episode in the show notes. That was about parenting, even starting with younger age children, which was wonderful. But Allie, this is my first time getting to meet you.
So, I'll share with you too. Your dad was actually my first pastor after I became a believer. So, I remember him preaching a series on better decisions, fewer regrets.
And he would challenge us to ask ourselves a question. I think I'm getting this right. In light of my past experiences, my current circumstances and my future hopes and dreams, what's the wise thing to do?
And so, as we're nearing the close of our conversation, would you like to share, after absorbing all this information from the conversation and from your book, now what? What is the wise thing to do?
Allie Stanley Cooney: (38:01 - 39:57)
Yeah, so our last chapter is on decision-making because I do think all of it kind of points to the decisions and we point back to Philippians 4, where Paul is saying, now put it into practice. Everything you've learned, everything you've seen, all of these things, it's time to put it into practice. And so, pointing these girls and pointing these moms to stop in a moment and ask themselves exactly what you just said.
Okay, in spite of my past and my present and my future, what is the wise thing to do? What is the thing that will lead to healthier relationships? What is the thing that will lead to less regret in the future?
And I think it's even just a choice to stop and just ask that, because a lot of times we just go, go, go. We don't have time to stop to really think through anything, but the idea of, okay, before we make a decision, let's actually stop and ask ourselves, what is the wise thing to do? And it's not always gonna be popular.
It's not always gonna be easy. And sometimes you might be the only one doing it, but I know in my experience, and even when I was in high school, I went to public school, so I was surrounded by a lot of people who weren't making the wisest decisions and they were my friends and realizing, okay, I'm gonna, even though it's not popular, even though they might laugh at me, even though this might not go well for me, I know what I want my future to look like and therefore I'm gonna do the right thing. I'm gonna say no, or I'm gonna say yes, or I'm gonna do whatever I know the right thing to do is and just trust that it's gonna be okay and trust that my close friends will stick by me and my family will stick by me and they'll be proud of me. And so I think it's hard to do in the moment, but if you have that filter and if you stop and ask, then I think it's really, really great for you and your future.
Sandra Stanley: (39:58 - 41:46)
And for moms and daughters to have this question in their back pocket as these things roll out, as hard decisions come along, it's just really important to ask what is the wise thing to do? And I think an approach for parenting in general, but especially for these moms of middle and high school girls, an approach and part of a conversation is, hey, Allie, I love you so much. And my goal is for you to get to the end of these middle school years or the end of these high school years with as few regrets as possible.
So, we're gonna get in the habit of asking this question, what is the wise thing for me to do? What is the wise thing for me to do in this situation? And the second question we talk about in that decision-making chapter is what story do I wanna tell?
When all of this is said and done, when this decision, even this one decision, when this is over and I'm on the other side of it, what is the story that I will want to tell? I think I'm gonna make that decision based on that. So those two questions, what is the wise thing to do and what story am I gonna wanna tell?
Those are big, big conversation pieces for moms and daughters to have and for moms and kids in general and dads and families to have, what's the wise thing to do and what story do you wanna tell? Because we wanna get them to a place where they have as few regrets as possible and God can certainly use our regrets, He can use our stuff. We're not gonna be perfect.
We are not gonna always get it right and we're not always gonna make the wise decision. And I think us being honest and chatting with our kids about decisions we didn't make that were the right ones that we might carry a little bit of baggage around on at the appropriate time and in the appropriate way, we can have those conversations with our kids and let them know, hey, I'm not perfect and I'm not expecting you to be perfect but let's get in the habit of asking these questions because they will cause us to have fewer regrets on the other side.
Laura Dugger: (41:47 - 41:53)
So, good and it really puts you on the same team which you are when you're having these conversations.
Sandra Stanley: (41:53 - 42:18)
And sometimes your kids don't feel that. They don't feel like we're on their team. They feel like we aren't because we don't want them to have fun or we don't want them to have freedom or whatever.
And it really does. These conversations do emphasize, hey, I am on your team and I am only saying no to this because I am so for you. And I think these conversations set us up for that.
Laura Dugger: (42:19 - 42:27)
Well, you've shared some wise questions. Would you also be willing to share the prayer that Allie, I believe you prayed through high school?
Allie Stanley Cooney: (42:28 - 42:36)
Yes, the prayer is give me the wisdom to know what's right and the courage to do what's right, even when it's hard and even when I have to do it by myself.
Sandra Stanley: (42:36 - 43:23)
We started praying that for our kids before they even knew what we were saying. When they were toddlers, we were praying this prayer with them. And as they got older, that's when we tacked on the end, even if I'm the only one, even if I'm doing it by myself.
Because as you get older and you get into middle school and high school, sometimes you feel like you're the only one. And we celebrated like crazy when we caught our kids making a hard decision and especially if they were the only one. So, when we saw them making wise decisions, we didn't always catch it, but if we did, we wanted them to know this is to be celebrated because what's rewarded is repeated.
And we wanted to reward our kids for making those tough decisions. And I think Allie carried that on with her all the way through, so.
Laura Dugger: (43:24 - 43:36)
Love that so much. And really, it's such a joy to learn from both of you. Can you tell us where to go after this conversation where we can continue learning from the wisdom of each of you?
Sandra Stanley: (43:36 - 43:56)
Thank you. Yeah, the book is anywhere that you buy books, you know, on Amazon, all of the different places where you buy books. My website, sandrastanley.com has lots of links. Instagram, Allie Kay Cooney, yeah. So we're talking about it a lot these days, just in the season of talking about maybe in the middle.
Laura Dugger: (43:57 - 44:13)
Love it. Well, you may know that I have one final question for you because we are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for each one of you today, what is your savvy sauce?
Sandra Stanley: (44:14 - 45:04)
You go. Okay, I'll start first. I think, Laura, it really is my calendar dictates my life.
But again, that's kind of a personality thing. But for me, if I don't get it on my calendar, it may or may not get done. So for me to put the biggest, most important things on my calendar, it just makes life more smooth for me.
So, I use my calendar for everything. There was a season where I even calendared exercise because it was a crazy season. I thought if I don't put it on here, I'm not gonna do it.
I have a rhythm with that now, so it's a little bit easier. But even things like making sure I'm checking in with my mom and dad, because they are in there getting to their late eighties and, you know, just little reminders of things that are most important that I don't wanna miss, that are easy to miss when I get busy, I just use my calendar for everything.
Allie Stanley Cooney: (45:05 - 45:51)
Yeah, I think, I don't know if this is exactly what you mean, but recently, I wanna be off my phone more because it's just everyone's addicted to their phone. So, I got this thing called a brick, and I saw it on Instagram, ironically. But you can tap your phone onto it, and it basically shuts down any app other than whatever apps you want.
And the whole thing is you're turning your phone back into a tool and not a distraction. And it's pretty much changed my life. Because I'll sleep with it on brick, and then so I can't wake up and just like be on my phone.
So, then I have to like intentionally undo it to go on Instagram or do whatever. And then I just keep it bricked. And so, I'm not just scrolling, and it's been really, really helpful.
Laura Dugger: (45:52 - 46:21)
I love it, those are so wonderful. And God has just blessed both of you with so many gifts, but I'm seeing so much wisdom, so much beauty in both of you, but your generosity to share because you have a unique family situation and are very well known. And yet you just are giving of yourselves through the time here, through the knowledge and wisdom that you shared in your book.
So, I want to say thank you for a thousand things, but thank you for being my guest today.
Sandra Stanley: (46:21 - 46:26)
Thank you for having us. We really appreciate it. This was very fun.
Yeah.
Laura Dugger: (46:27 - 49:41)
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?
It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.
Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.
We need a savior. But God loved us so much, he made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.
That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says, “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” So would you pray with me now?
Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life?
We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him. You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason.
We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started? First, tell someone.
Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible.
I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. You can start by reading the book of John. Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ.
I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “In the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
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