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Practical Chats for Intentional Living
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Monday Oct 29, 2018
Monday Oct 29, 2018
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: I want to say thank you to today's sponsor, Fair+Simple. This business connects people with gifts and products that are making a positive impact. If you'd like to learn more, visit fairandsimple.com.
Welcome, friends. Today we get to hear from one of the smartest people I know, Jackie Coleman. Jackie is a marriage and family therapist. Additionally, she has worked in various educational settings after graduating from Harvard Graduate School of Education. She is a wife of John and mother to two, with number three on the way.
Today we get to chat with Jackie and learn about nurturing friendships as a mom, practical ways to take care of ourselves, and she even shares a few book recommendations. Wherever this finds you, driving, cleaning, cooking, or anywhere else, I hope you enjoy the chat as much as I did. [00:01:19]
Hey, Jackie.
Jackie Coleman: Hi, Laura. How's it going?
Laura Dugger: Great. Thanks so much for joining us today. Jackie and I met through graduate school in Atlanta over 10 years ago when we were both studying to become marriage and family therapists. Jackie currently lives in Atlanta, but is originally from Rhode Island. Can you just give us a snapshot of your life from that point forward?
Jackie Coleman: Absolutely. I know it's a big leap thinking of a girl from Rhode Island in Georgia, but the middle of my sophomore year in high school, my dad decided he wanted to start a practice. He's a pediatrician. He wanted to start a practice in a warmer location, so he sold our snowblower and moved us south. And I will say, he moved us on Christmas Day, which added a little bit of insult to injury, I think, and I disliked my parents maybe for about a week, and then the transition was great. [00:02:17]
So I went to high school in Georgia for one year, and then I did my senior year of high school, enrolled at Berry College, which is in Rome, Georgia. And that's where I met my husband.
Laura Dugger: That's amazing. And you've had a great attitude throughout all of it. And it's been such a...
Jackie Coleman: Except for that one week that I didn't like my parents so much.
Laura Dugger: Maybe on Christmas Day. Understandable. But it's been a privilege to know you single and then married and now as a mom. So how has life changed for you since becoming a mother?
Jackie Coleman: Oh man, how has it not changed? I feel like everything has changed for me, from the work that I'm doing, from my sleep schedule, from the working out that I actually am not doing these days so much, just schedule literally everything, I feel like, is different.
Laura Dugger: Was that what you expected? [00:03:15]
Jackie Coleman: I honestly don't think that there was any way that pre-baby that I could anticipate what life would look like. Sometimes we look back, John and I are sitting on the couch as we're watching the kids, and we're like, "What was life like before?" And it's hard to remember that. But I think before you have kids it's almost impossible to think about what life will look like?
So, no, it wasn't until I held my son for the first time that my world got turned upside down and changed everything. My priorities changed, my heart changed, and it was totally unexpected.
Laura Dugger: That's amazing. And when you say your priorities changed, you were in a pretty unique and high-pressure job at the time. Were you expecting to continue being a working mom once you had children?
Jackie Coleman: Yes, that was the plan. [00:04:12] All throughout the pregnancy and into the first, probably first few weeks of my maternity leave, I was certainly expecting to go back, was starting to make the plans necessary to do that. And I just remember sitting at the kitchen table researching different child care options and sitting there in tears looking up at my husband and saying, "I can't do this. I can't do it."
So we had a lot of serious talks about what that would look like and the feasibility of that. We got to a point where that's what we did. And I'm so grateful. That was definitely where my heart was at and I'm so glad that we were on the same page.
Laura Dugger: You are in a very heavy lifting stage of parenting right now with three little ones. Can you share how are you nurturing friendships during this phase of life with littles at home?
Jackie Coleman: Yes, that's a great question. I find that it's an exhausting period of time. [00:05:15] So if I weren't intentional about friendship, I would tend to stay at home. Once the kids are down, I'd put on my PJs and climb into bed, probably. But in this phase of life, friendship is so important for my sanity, for my emotional engagement, for my intellectual engagement.
So there are a few things that I tend to do. One is that I have a few standing commitments. Some are weekly, some are monthly. These I don't back out of unless, you know, kid is sick, something more catastrophic. But these things are things that I expect. They're on my calendar. An example is I have a book club that I'll do once a month. It's so great for friendship. It's so great for my mind. It's just really interesting conversation every time that I go.
Another thing that I am committed to Bi-weekly is a small group. And this I will not cancel on unless, again, there's something more catastrophic going on. [00:06:22] Then also weekly potluck with my family. So that gets me out and with the kids and seeing cousins and my mom and brother sister nephews. So those are a few of the things that I will not cancel on and that I just expect every week.
Another thing I would say is just realizing the importance of proximity. In this phase of life, it is just not practical with nap times, with eating, with early bedtimes to drive, you know, 30 minutes to see a friend regularly. So I have been really intentional about developing a few key relationships right in my neighborhood.
One of my very best friends lives in our backyard, and our kids love playing together, which is such a blessing. I have another dear friend who lives a couple doors down. They're just some of my greatest friends and we see each other the most frequently because of the convenience of proximity. [00:07:31]
So there's definitely something to be said about that and just the practicality of this stage of life and how important that is. That also say that there are a few... probably two to three deep friendships that I will do the drive for. And that, when an opportunity comes to hang out or spend time together, I will make that a priority.
In this phase of life also, I think early on, I like having a lot of friends and it was fun to have light conversation. Right now I'm craving depth of friendship, and you can really only do that with a select few.
Laura Dugger: Great point. With those few, if they aren't close in proximity, practically speaking, how do you get out of the house or meet them if it is a bit of a drive?
Jackie Coleman: Occasionally, we'll meet up after the kids are asleep. My husband's really great about encouraging me to get out in the evening. And it's hard to get myself. geared up to go and muster the energy to go. But I never regret it. [00:08:43]
We've had a couple of pottery dates or we just meet up for a late dinner. So that's an easier way to do it. We often will get together with a huge group of the kids. There are two friends that I'm thinking of in particular and we'll do just a park play date or just a way that the kids can be engaged, but we can also connect on a friend level. So we'll do that.
Probably I would say we get together once every two weeks and make that a priority even though we're not living all that close.
Laura Dugger: That makes sense. And are these friends that you're talking about that aren't close proximity, are these friends that you've had since before you were a mom?
Jackie Coleman: Yes. One is a friend that was from pre-mom stage, and then she introduced me to this other friend once we had kids. So our friendship has evolved over the years, which is really special.
Laura Dugger: Definitely. So you've got a history with them, and then meeting up every couple weeks, you can just pick up where you left off. [00:09:46]
Jackie Coleman: Yes, yes. It's really, really special.
Laura Dugger: I love your creative solutions, that you're still able to make friendships a priority when a lot of people would say this is a really difficult stage to be doing that. What would you say to other moms who might be listening and maybe they're in a similar season, but they feel guilty about connecting with friends because they're wondering if that's going to be taking away time from them being with their own kids?
Jackie Coleman: Sure. I would say a couple things about that. Mom guilt is real. You can feel it, but it's important not to internalize it. You can feel it about basically anything. I do. When it comes to feeding your soul as a mom, as a person, as an individual, I would say that's a non-negotiable.
I know for me I am a much better mom when I feel like I have a little bit of time carved out that's for me. [00:10:50] Whether it's downtime or with a friend. I think you're doing yourself and your kids a service by feeding your emotional and your spiritual intellectual, sometimes your physical needs. I would say that.
I would also say there are some creative ways to also include the kids and let them have a blast while you're also having a blast with moms. I sometimes do this by organizing, maybe it's a large park play date with a bunch of moms from our little preschool. So we'll get like five or six moms together and a whole slew of kids, sometimes we'll get a Chick-fil-A platter or we'll get some ice cream and let the kids just have a blast. And they are having way more fun, I can guarantee you, than if they were just home with me. [00:11:47]
Then I also get the engagement of a number of moms that I probably wouldn't see unless we did something like that.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that is such great wisdom and you're taking care of everybody at that point. It's a win for everyone both examples that you gave. I love it.
Jackie Coleman: Thanks.
Laura Dugger: So another question I have for you is how do you practice self-care as a mom?
Jackie Coleman: Well, it's easy to let this fall by the wayside unless you are very thoughtful about it. I would say I'm very grateful to my husband who is incredibly encouraging of me going out and having some time, whether that's on a weekend or once the kids are in bed. I'll also say he is very busy and he does travel a lot, but he's also encouraging me getting a babysitter probably much more frequently than I would ever allow myself to do if it were just me. But he knows how important that is. [00:12:50]
So having someone that's supportive, whether it's a friend that can encourage you to maybe think along those lines, your husband, a mom, just someone in your support network that can be looking out for your well-being. Because I know a lot of times we as moms will sacrifice our well-being for our kids. So it's just important to get those reminders sometimes. So I'm so appreciative to him that he's often saying, "Why don't you go? Go out. Let's let you have some time." So that's one way.
And I realize also that finances might not make that conducive for some, like budgetary constraints, but there are also ways that I have found in the home that I can recharge. We have a workout room downstairs. I did joke at the beginning that I have not been working out, which is the truth. There is a workout room downstairs that I have used in the past that if I just... you know, whether John's traveling, I just need to let off some steam. You know, I can go down there. [00:13:53]
You know, watching a TV show and not feeling guilty about the pile of laundry that's sitting next to you. I do that, too. You know, just knowing yourself and knowing what you need. So there are some ways that you can fulfill those kind of need for self-care in your own home, too. It's not necessarily that you have to spend money on a babysitter to get out, but you can take the time at your house, too.
Laura Dugger: I love that. And there's something unique that you've always done, and it's a once-a-year treat. Can you tell us more about that?
Jackie Coleman: I would love to tell you about this. It's one of my favorite things. Once a year at Christmas time, my one request for a gift is that I get one night away in a hotel room. My husband sets it up. And it is just the most amazing time where I know I have 24 hours to read a book, to soak in a tub, to just have some time to sleep. [00:14:56] It's my favorite gift. I think that I'm so grateful that I get to do that once a year.
There has been an occasion where I invited a friend and that was so fun. And then there are times that I just crave to be by myself. So it's a great, great gift that I'm so grateful for.
Laura Dugger: That's awesome. Again, another creative solution, and I love that it can just fill your tank for such a long time. I've witnessed you interacting with your kids, and it does seem to always come from such a full place.
I'd like to pause for a moment and say thank you to today's sponsor, Fair + Simple. Fair + Simple connects people with gifts and products that are making a positive impact. One of the unique items in their shop is a Fair + Simple card. A recipient of a Fair + Simple card can redeem it online for any single item in the gift collection. [00:15:54]
Every item supports women, education, and fair trade in areas of need. To browse their collection and learn more, check out their website, fairandsimple.com. Thanks for your sponsorship.
Switching gears here, so you're a working mom. For you personally, what does your work-life balance look like?
Jackie Coleman: Well, I was working in the education realm, but more on a policy level. Now I'm actually in the classroom, which is a total switch. I'm teaching at my daughter's preschool, so I'm teaching pre-K, and I am loving it. It's an amazing opportunity that allows me to have a work outlet while at the same time being on the same exact schedule as my kids. So it's a really unique opportunity to have a little bit of my feet in both worlds, I would say. [00:16:53]
So I think like being open to the fact that your desires can change and there's nothing wrong with that. Just being aware of what you're needing and wanting in different seasons and then just trying to figure out how that fits in with your current life and responsibilities.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that's well said. So you can relate to all kinds of moms out there. I love that. And for years, you and your husband have both had an interest in reviewing how other people are balancing this and have even published an article. Is that right?
Jackie Coleman: Yes. Actually, got a book deal writing on how dual career couple can stay happy. And the funniest thing is, as we were drafting this book, our son was just a few months old. And I remember looking at my husband and saying, "This isn't going to work. We are so unbalanced right now. We are not being true to what we're saying." [00:17:54]
So we ended up giving up that book deal just because life was too full. And we knew that we couldn't juggle all the balls that were being thrown at us. So that was an interesting twist on that opportunity. But we did write an article on how couples can stay happy amidst a lot of work and life pressure.
But most recently John has written an article that has revolutionized the way that I at least have thought about work and life and the balance of the two. And he basically is saying that there's a work and a life component to basically every area of life. It doesn't have to be that work is confined to an office. And life is confined to the joyful part the fun and engaging family and extracurricular. [00:18:52]
What he's saying is basically there is work and life to both. For example, in a job there are things that you really enjoy doing that bring life to you and fulfillment, but there are also parts of your job that you don't like. Maybe that's filling out your timesheets, maybe that's you know doing a certain type of report, I don't know.
And then as a mom there is so much that brings me joy, from finding the things that give my children the giggles to, you know, reading a book to them to hearing their thoughts about the day, talking about their highs and lows. But there is the work component of being at home. There is changing of the diapers, you know, there's the tantrums, there's just a lot of difficult things as well.
So he said that it's important to find and maximize your joyful and your purposeful areas of both work and life and that through that you can flourish. [00:19:58] So I just love that. And that's how I think about a lot of the things that we both engage in and making sure that we're maximizing kind of the purpose in what we're doing and the joyful aspects of what we're doing.
Laura Dugger: That is fascinating. I love that concept. Thank you for sharing. We'll make sure and[00:20:24] [00:20:24] [00:20:18] get a link posted for our show notes so that you can read John's most recent article.
Jackie Coleman: And there will be no link to the book about how dual career couples stay happy because it doesn't exist.
Laura Dugger: Hey, friends, I just wanted to give you a quick reminder that we're asking for ratings and reviews on whatever platform you use to listen to this podcast. If you would be willing, could you also hit subscribe to the podcast and share this with a friend? Thanks for listening. Now back to the show.
As we keep going here, it seems like each season presents some unique challenges along with some wonderful yet temporary gifts. So what would you say you're loving right now in your current season? [00:21:01]
Jackie Coleman: I would have to say the stage of life that my kids are in right now is just so fun. I love hearing their thoughts, playing with them. My son says these amazing prayers that just bring tears to my eyes, literally. I mean, that sounds cheesy, but it's just beautiful to hear his heart.
Reading longer chapter books is really fun, instead of the Where Is Baby's Belly Button? 15,000 times. But what's so interesting is I will often, once they're asleep, will flip through old photos. We have like 10,000 photos on Dropbox, and I'll just flip back to when they were really little. And it's just so crazy to me how quickly time has flown by from those stages. And when you're in it, it just feels like it's never ending. And it's wonderful, but there are a lot of things that are hard about it. [00:22:07]
And I guess it just reminds me that I really want to enjoy every phase that we're in because every moment just seems so fleeting. I was reading, I guess it was a blog post about you just never know when you're going to experience the last of something with the kids, whether that's the last snuggle in your rocking chair or the last time they stuck their thumb or, you know, all these last moments.
It just made me think about all the times that I have experienced less and not even realize that it was the last time that they're going to do something or need something from me. I don't want to miss moments by wishing for the next. I certainly did that much too frequently. When the kids were really little, we had them so close together. So they're 17 months apart and it just feels like that stage was such a blur. [00:23:05]
In that time my dad got sick. Like very sick. He got pancreatic cancer. And just that stage was so painful and so exhausting that I just couldn't wait for relief. But now looking back, I just see how quickly time is going by. So I just don't want to ever take these moments for granted, even the tantrum-y ones.
Laura Dugger: That's a really, really great point. You have such a great perspective. And no doubt going through challenges has helped shape your grateful heart. Some people might hear this podcast today and just think, "Oh, she's got it together and life is so easy," but you've had your share of difficulties too. And you were alluding to it there. Can you elaborate on that season when your dad got sick and what's helped you through this grieving process?
Jackie Coleman: Yeah, I'm sure. That season does feel like an incredible blur. [00:24:06] Got pregnant when my son was seven months old. So just, you know, a time where you want to be very hands-on. I was exhausted. I was really sick for about five months during that pregnancy. And then had my daughter and she was such an easy baby. So I can't even blame it on her because she was awesome. She was so copacetic, smiley, giggly. But just having them close together.
My son was a late walker. Just was very physically taxing. It took a lot of strategy that you can think about getting them in a car and to go anywhere. And then my dad got sick around six months when my daughter... I mean when my daughter was six months old and it took all hands on deck, from my husband being incredible and watching the kids so I could spend overnights in hospice with my dad.
Then my dad fought a really hard fight but pancreatic cancer, it was too late in the game and he died. [00:25:15] It was very shortly after, two days after that, that my son was admitted to the hospital for some... they didn't even know what was wrong. He was just holding his head funny. He had a Pre-abscess in his neck, it turned out in mono. So he's fighting two big things. Ended up staying in the hospital for a week.
So I remember getting ready for my dad's funeral in the hospital and I just thought, "It can't get worse than this. It can't get worse than this." But all the while, despite such hardship from all these unknowns with my son being in the hospital to losing my dad, faith was the anchor. Because I had so many people reminding me of the truth, of the biblical truths and pouring into me and listening to me wail.
So I'm so grateful that I had a support network and they... gosh, just from family to friends just really got me through such a tremendously painful time. [00:26:21]
And even there, from that point, I feel like my faith has deepened. Just walking through that experience with my dad, hearing the things he said right up at the end, watching his faith was so incredibly strong, even despite facing probably the scariest and worst diagnosis that I could think of. So I'm so grateful for my faith. Otherwise, I think I would have probably withered.
Laura Dugger: I am so glad I was able to meet your dad. He was an incredible man. What were some of those things you said you learned from his faith, even in those last days? What were some of the things that he said that you really cherish?
Jackie Coleman: Sure. He had four principles that he lived by. He wrote these out before he got sick. So these were truly principles that he lived by. And the first is to trust God. [00:27:21] The second is: expect a miracle. The third is: never take a single moment for granted. And the fourth is: be anxious for nothing.
Now, I do these very imperfectly, but they are posted on my refrigerator as a daily reminder to heed these wise words that my dad got from the Bible, from sermons, from just his own faith. So I try to put those into practice daily.
And then also the things that he said right up until the end, his faith never wavered. He was desperate to go with Jesus. He saw amazing things that I know were so authentic. I think it was just his excitement about the next step, which is so scary to me. Death is so scary and unknown to me, but watching him kind of it was almost like he was going between these two worlds, it was so exciting to him and it made it so exciting for me to think about what might be next. [00:28:41]
So it took kind of this like fear and anxiety out of death and more of a curiosity for me. Now, I can't say that I'm excited about it yet, but I just got to witness things that I think aren't natural. And it was just such a beautiful and painful time, but I am so grateful for that experience.
Laura Dugger: Jackie, you have walked well through so many difficulties. Honored to get a watch you do that well. And just to even hear your faith strengthening through all that, it's miraculous.
Jackie Coleman: Thank you.
Laura Dugger: Expecting a miracle.
Jackie Coleman: Yes.
Laura Dugger: Well, and as we conclude today, I saved our most lighthearted topic for last.
Jackie Coleman: Okay.
Laura Dugger: So we would all love to hear your practical tips that each of us can emulate beginning today. So what is your savvy sauce as a mom? [00:29:40]
Jackie Coleman: My savvy sauce. I'm going to start with probably the most lighthearted and maybe ridiculous, but we'll just start there. I have to say, this day and age, convenience is at our fingertips. It's just amazing. As moms of these little, amazing young children, we should use these conveniences unabashedly.
So some of the things that I do, I love getting my groceries delivered to my front door before 7 a.m. once a week. It is just such a gift to not have to bring my children to the grocery store, which I have never liked going to the grocery store as we have talked about a few times. It is just probably my least favorite place in the world.
I have an Amazon Fresh subscription, so that just saves me about two hours a week. One other thing, from early, early on, I've tried to encourage my children to engage in independent play. [00:30:47] And I know this is where a lot of mom guilt can come in. I know I feel it, and I have to kind of talk myself out of it sometimes, where we want to be engaging with them or entertaining them. But really, it's so good for them to do their own thing and to get lost in their little world. But it also allows me a little bit of time to get dinner done or laundry folded while they play. So we have lots of playtime together, but this is a skill that I've tried to teach them, I guess.
A small thing, I think often I was catching myself calling them if I needed them to do something or if they were in trouble. I just noticed that they would associate... it almost seems like when I called their name, they would associate with something negative. So I really try to have something positive to say or an encouragement or a treat or just something. Because kids are just pros at selective listening, I have found. [00:31:45]
Laura Dugger: So true.
Jackie Coleman: So giving them a reason to listen and perk up when you call their name, I've just tried to do that. Now, my daughter has a very spicy personality. So we have a chair that we call the whining chair. So she has a penchant for whining. She's just a pro. So when she starts to rev up with the whining, she goes to the chair. So it's not allowed in any other place but the chair. And now it's to the point where she said, "But I don't want the chair." And I'll say, "Well, you have to stop whining." And she will. Sometimes. Sometimes I will say. It's not perfect. But that's been really helpful to have a space that she will go to when that starts to rev up.
I would also say that we are so grateful that we have a church that feeds both us and our kids, that we love going to. We actually were attending a church before the one that we're at right now that our kids did not enjoy going to. You know, it's so important for our kids to love church. And they ask. They ask midweek. They're like, "Are we going to church today?" [00:32:56]
That does my heart so good. But we also get fed. So I think finding a church home that is good for the entire family has been great for us. Let's see, I am wanting to... I just read this in a book recently, Ben Sasse's book called, I think, The Vanishing American Adult, which was a really fascinating read.
But one of his big suggestions is to build a bookshelf for your kids and be really thoughtful about the books and the messaging and the ideas that you want them to read over time. One way that I've done that, there's this incredible book that's called Honey for a Child's Heart. And it has so many different reading lists for the different ages for the different genres of book. So we are building a list and slowly building a bookshelf for our kids of books that we want them to read now and as they age. [00:33:55] So I think those are just a few thoughts on some of the areas that I feel savvy.
Laura Dugger: Absolutely. No, that is an incredible list. I need to take notes on all of these. We'll have to put those books in the show notes as well if anybody's interested in looking into those to building their own bookshelf for their kids.
Jackie, you are just a wealth of wisdom. I hope that every individual listener is going to leave today as inspired as I have been through this conversation. You are just one of the most caring people I've ever known. Every time I'm around you, I feel like I learn something new. So thank you for sharing your savvy ways with us today.
Jackie Coleman: Laura, thank you so much for having me. This was a blast.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. [00:34:57] But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. [00:36:01] Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. [00:37:07] Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
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