226 Tech-Savvy Family with Paul Asay

226. Tech-Savvy Family with Paul Asay

 

**Transcription Below**

 

Philippians 4:8 (NIV) "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."

 

Paul Asay has been part of the Plugged In staff since 2007, watching and reviewing roughly 15 quintillion movies and television shows. He’s written for a number of other publications too, including Time, The Washington Post, and Christianity Today. The author of several books, Paul loves to find spirituality in unexpected places, including popular entertainment, and he loves all things superhero. His vices include James Bond films, Mountain Dew, and terrible B-grade movies. He’s married, has two children, runs marathons on occasion, and hopes to someday own his own tuxedo. Feel free to follow him on Twitter @AsayPaul.

 

The Plugged In Staff gives families essential tools to understand, navigate, and impact the culture in which they live. Through their reviews, articles, and discussions, they aim to spark intellectual thought, spiritual growth, and a desire to follow the command of Colossians 2:8: “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.”

 

Plugged In Website

The Plugged In Show Podcast

Becoming a Screen-Savvy Family: How to Navigate a Media-Saturated World - and Why We Should

 

Questions and Topics We Discuss:

1. From your line of work, what patterns have you observed between children and technology?

2. Will you also share helpful truths from your book about the impact of our devices on our brain?

3. Are there any certain types of movies or apps or video games or social media that you say a blanket “no” to?

 

 Thank You to Our Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank

 

Recommended Episodes from The Savvy Sauce on Similar Topics:

Mastering Technology so it Does Not Master You with Dr. Sylvia Hart Frejd

Tech and Parenting with Molly DeFrank

Technology and Parenting with Arlene Pellicane

Promoting a Family Culture of Reading with Megan Kaeb

Inspiring Your Children to be Readers Part 2 with Megan Kaeb

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

[00:00:18] <music>

Laura Dugger: Thank you to an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank, who paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Learn more about this amazing nonprofit organization at MidwestFoodBank.org. 

Paul Asay is my guest today. He reviews movies and television shows for Plugged In. He's also an author, and his latest book with the Plugged In team releases tomorrow. It's entitled Becoming a Screen-Savvy Family: How to Navigate a Media-Saturated World--And Why We Should. We're going to discuss some ways to become a screen-savvy family with young kids and teenagers, and even adult children. 

Here's our chat.

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Paul.

Paul Asay: Thank you so much for having me, Laura. I am thrilled to be here. [00:01:19] 

Laura Dugger: Well, I'd love for you to get us started by just sharing an overview of your family and your current life stage.

Paul Asay: You bet. So I am a father of two. My son is 33. My daughter is 30. So what we're going to be talking a lot about today is stuff that I've dealt with for a number of years. The interesting thing about being a parent is you realize that even though your kids are adults, the parenting never really stops. It continues to go on, right? So that's kind of where I am.

I'm married. I live in Colorado Springs. Both of my kids live in town, so I get to see them a whole bunch, which is a joy. I actually have a new little grandbaby that I am doting on right now. So that's kind of where I am.

Laura Dugger: Oh, congratulations. That's such an exciting time.

Paul Asay: Yeah, we could spend the whole hour talking about my grandchild if you wanted to.

Laura Dugger: I love that. That is so awesome that that seems to be across the board that you just really do. [00:02:22] It is grandparenting.

Paul Asay: It really is. It truly is.

Laura Dugger: Well, also, I'd love to talk about your career because your work is so unique. So can you just describe what it looks like from day to day?

Paul Asay: You bet. As a movie reviewer and as a Christian movie reviewer, it is a very unique job. I didn't even realize that such a job existed before I took it. It is an unusual gig. It makes me feel a little guilty, honestly, sometimes because I watch movies and TV for a living. So it feels like when you're saying, Oh, man, I have to watch this TV show. It's a little bit counterintuitive for a lot of people who might listen to that. 

But honestly, the weekdays probably don't look that much different just day to day than a lot of other people. So I work pretty much a 40, 50 hour week and the hours are reasonably regular. [00:03:25] 

There are times in my working life where the hours can creep up just because there's so many movies to review, so many things that you have to put an eye on. And so that can get a little bit taxing. 

The one unusual part about it is that we do drive to a bigger city. I live in Colorado Springs. So we drive up to Denver probably every week, sometimes twice a week, sometimes three times a week to go see some advanced screenings of movies. And we just sort of go there and we take tons and tons of notes as we sit in these movie screens.

I have a light-up pen that I use to take notes. I make sure that I'm counting all the profanities. I'm making sure that I'm taking notes as far as I can in terms of problematic content that might bother some parents. And then, you know, that evening or the next morning, I sit down and I just start writing about it.

Laura Dugger: That is so fascinating, even just visualizing the light-up pen and the practical things that you're doing. [00:04:28] Truly, Paul, I am so grateful for your work because it benefits parents and families like ours to guard against consuming things that may not be good or healthy for us. 

But I think as you describe it, it leaves me prayerful for you. And I'm just so curious, how do you protect yourself with all of this violence and crudeness and even sexuality that you're exposed to when reviewing media for Plugged In?

Paul Asay: Well, that's a great question. And it is something that we take really seriously. Right? As a matter of fact, we're in the process of interviewing some intern candidates. That's one of the things that we talk very seriously with them about, because we'll be asking them to do a lot of the same stuff that we do. That ironically involves us going to movies, seeing TV shows, listening to music that we might say parents and families should stay away from. [00:05:32] So we want to make sure that they're prepared for that part of the gig. 

And how we deal with it, we have a very small staff and we've been working together for a while now. And the way that we do it is really threefold.

The first thing we do is we do quite a bit of research. We try to find out what we can be prepared for, what we might be expecting. Obviously, we go to the movies to see exactly what's in the movie. But usually, there are some clues online that we can sort of draw from and see what we might be in store for. 

And then we pray about it. We pray about it very sincerely. We pray about it very transparently to have some... I don't like to necessarily over-spiritualize it, but I do believe that often in our job, we do have sort of a little bit of protection that has been supernaturally given to us. And we pray for that every single time we go to a movie. [00:06:32] 

The next thing that really happens is in the present, when we're actually watching something, when I'm in a room with my light up and taking notes. The process of taking notes actually sort of helps distance us a little bit from the content that we're seeing on screen. Right. We know because we have this pad of paper, we have this pen. We know that we're working. We are not there to just let the movie wash over us. So our brains are fully engaged. We're leaning forward. We're taking notes.

That can really help us to sort of process what we're seeing as we're seeing it. It helps create a little bit of... I don't want to say a barrier, but I do think it sort of creates a little bit of a line between us that wouldn't necessarily be there if we were just watching a movie on our free time. 

The third thing, and this is actually one of my very favorite parts of the job, we get a chance to, the next morning, we talk about it. [00:07:33] We talk about it a lot. We have a really good staff that we work with. And I love talking about the movie that I just saw with some of my coworkers because oftentimes they will have thoughts that I didn't have. Sometimes if they see a movie, I might have a thought that they didn't have. And that sort of helps bring the movie to a more manageable size, helps us know how to think about it. In our jobs, that's kind of critical is to know how to think about these sorts of content issues.

Laura Dugger: Wow, that is so interesting. Thank you for sharing that. I think you're even modeling a few tips that we can take as families.

Paul Asay: Yeah. I think that that's true. I mean, I don't think a lot of families are going to be bringing in a pad of paper and a pen. They're not going to be necessarily counting swear words. But I do believe that when you are a parent, when you are taking your family into kind of these realms, there are some things that you can be mindful of based on a little bit of what we do. [00:08:40] 

I think we can pray about it. We can research what is in a movie beforehand. There's a lot of really great sites out there that can help you walk through them. Plugged In is one of them. You can sort of be prepared for what you might see, and you can decide even before you go whether you should or not. But really, the key, I think, for a lot of parents is to talk about it.

Don't be afraid to bring up conversations with your kids after you see a movie. Talk about the issues that you see, what they loved about a movie, what scared them, what troubled them. Sometimes these movies can be a fantastic catalyst for parent-child bonding moments. Because we all love movies, we all like to talk about them. And it gives us a chance to maybe dig a little bit deeper, to talk about issues that might be a little bit ticklish that you might stay away from otherwise.

Laura Dugger: That's well said. From this line of work, what patterns have you observed between children and technology in general? [00:09:44] 

Paul Asay: Oh, man. I tell you what. The world out there is getting more and more technologically saturated, should we say. I think that we live in a very techno world where it is inescapable. So the challenges that parents have today when it comes to technology are exponentially harder in some ways than maybe my parents had when they were raising me. You know, one TV that was right in the middle of the living room didn't have very many channels. You just sat down, and so everybody knew what you were doing. 

Everybody has a screen in their pocket now. Everybody has access to so much stuff. So parents have challenges that are pretty daunting now. We really do our best where I work to try to help protect and help guide what that technology... the role of technology might have in a family. [00:10:51] We try to suggest some nice curbs that can help keep technology in its proper place. But we know that it's kind of an avoidable right now. Unless you just pack up your family and you live on 50 acres in Montana without cell phone service, it is going to be a part of your life. 

One of the things that I would go back again and again and again to the idea that the most important thing for parents is to talk about these things. Keep the line of communication open. To be mindful that your kids are involved with technology and to always talk with them about how they're using it, what they're seeing. And try as much as you can to make those conversations open, nonjudgmental.

It's important for parents not to freak out because that can really close the door on a lot of conversation. And I think it's really important that kids feel comfortable sharing what they're seeing, what they're quote-unquote learning online with their parents. [00:11:58] And the only way to keep those lines of communication open is to be calm, be rational. Keep your standards high but to not freak out if your kids accidentally see something that they probably shouldn't.

Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor. 

Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank exists to provide industry-leading food relief to those in need while feeding them spiritually. They are a food charity with a desire to demonstrate God's love by providing help to those in need.

Unlike other parts of the world where there's not enough food, in America the resources actually do exist. That's why food pantries and food banks like Midwest Food Bank are so important. The goods that they deliver to their agency partners help to supplement the food supply for families and individuals across our country, aiding those whose resources are beyond stretched.

Midwest Food Bank also supports people globally through their locations in Haiti and East Africa, which are some of the areas hardest hit by hunger arising from poverty. [00:13:03] This ministry reaches millions of people every year, and thanks to the Lord's provision, 99% of every donation goes directly toward providing food to people in need. The remaining 1% of income is used for fundraising, costs of leadership, oversight, and other administrative expenses.

Donations, volunteers, and prayers are always appreciated from Midwest Food Bank. To learn more, visit MidwestFoodBank.org or listen to episode 83 of The Savvy Sauce, where the founder, David Kieser, shares miracles of God that he's witnessed through this nonprofit organization. I hope you check them out today.

Laura Dugger: I'm just going to share two of the quotes from your book, and I'd love for you to elaborate on this topic. So the first one you write is, "The younger we are, the more likely it is that those stories will influence us." And then you also say a conclusion that less is better and holding off is wise. [00:14:07] 

Paul Asay: That, more than anything, is one of the keys for how parents can sort of navigate this curious world that we're in. And I realize that probably a lot of your listeners, they may have older kids. They might be 12 or 15, and so the idea of putting some of these rules in place now can feel a little bit daunting. Like the horse is already out of the barn, and you just got to corral it the best you can.

But when you have a chance, you need to be mindful that the younger your child is, the more influential these screens tend to be, the more influential that technology tends to be. Pediatricians recommend that kids under the age of two stay away from screens entirely. And that is because screens can really impact so much of how we learn as a young, young child. 

Our brains are so malleable, so sponge-like when we're young, and we are using that time to learn how to interact with people. [00:15:10] We look at faces. We look at the world around us. We touch. We feel. We taste. When we're young, this is how we learn.

Screens take us away from sort of that real-world environment, and it can slow down and really change how we interact with the real nuts and bolts of the world around us. Experts have said that it can impact sleep. It can impact our learning patterns. It can delay language ability. It can mess with our attention spans. There are so many reasons why screens can be really, really problematic, and the younger you are, the more problematic they can be. So it's really important to be very mindful of those screens. 

I know that as a parent, it can be really, really tempting. Your kids are going to go crazy sometimes, right? They throw fits. They ask so many questions. Sometimes you need to have a little bit of time to just get some stuff done that doesn't involve the kids. And so it can be really tempting to set them in front of a screen, to let them absorb a show. [00:16:19] 

Even if the show is really good, I would just put a word of caution in there because of how screens change how we learn, how we develop. Be very mindful of that as you think about just letting a screen be a babysitter. It's really hard.

It's so tempting, and I totally understand that every parent is going to do it probably a little bit, but just keep that in mind, that those screens change how you interact with the world. 

Now, the older you get, obviously, those screens continue to have an impact on your life, and one of the biggest questions that we get at Plugged In is, when do I let my kid have his own cell phone? When do I let my kid have that outside connection? That's a very tricky question. 

We have one person on our team who is sort of our tech expert who suggests the age of 13, not before the age of 13. But we also really feel that in the world that we live in, we really want to keep those decisions in the hands of parents. [00:17:25] So you just have to be mindful of how your kids utilize technology, how they might misuse it, and be mindful of that as you sort of weigh these decisions.

Laura Dugger: And another part of it that you really drew out in your book that I had not considered this important part of media, especially in adolescence, is the impact of music on our emotions. So can you share a bit, even from your personal experience or from your research in this area, why is music so powerful, especially in those teen and tween years?

Paul Asay: It's so critical. We're living in the Taylor Swift age, right? Taylor Swift is everywhere. There are so many teens, especially teen girls, who gravitate to her. And why is that? It's because they feel like she understands them. They feel like she is speaking for them in a way. And that is really the power of music. [00:18:25] 

We spend so much time talking about screens, and screens are super, super important. But when I look back at my own childhood, my own formative teen years, I really did lean into music. Music was a way that... the music I listened to helped me process the incredibly powerful feelings that I was going through. It helped me process breakups. It helped me process fear and insecurity. 

The thing about music is that it can also sort of encourage us to stay there. It can be not just a catalyst, not just a tool to help process some of these really powerful feelings that we feel, but it can bring us down.

We all know that sometimes when we listen to a song from our childhood, it can make us feel a certain way. We can remember exactly how we felt when we first heard that song or exactly how that song came into our lives during a really difficult moment in our lives. [00:19:32] We can feel that same way.

I know that when I was a kid, sometimes I would listen to songs over and over and over again because they reinforced those feelings. And at that time, I wanted that reinforcement. But that reinforcement, while it can be at times cathartic, it's not always healthy. You need to be aware that especially songs that have really dark messaging, songs that encourage self-harm or have real issues with body image, or even sometimes you hear a lot of songs that glory in money and sex and all these sorts of thing, they can...

Because music touches our hearts in a way that really nothing else does, it can make you think, yes, that sort of stuff is what I want. That is what I aspire to. It doesn't happen with every song, obviously. It doesn't happen with every kid who listens to a bad song, obviously. But it can influence how we think and how we feel. [00:20:43] And maybe that's the most critical part of this, is it makes us feel.

It short-circuits our thinking processes and makes us feel certain ways. When we're guided by our emotions, that can inevitably lead us down some kind of tricky roads.

Laura Dugger: Absolutely. That makes sense because on the flip side, the songs and hymns and spiritual songs that they talk about in the Bible, that's such a form of discipleship. And there's so much goodness about music sinking into our soul. But I love that word of caution that it has to be the right kind of messaging, the right kind of music.

Paul Asay: Yeah. Let me just riff on that because I think that's a beautiful example. When you're talking – when I go into church, that is my favorite part of the service. The ability to sing, the ability to join all these voices within the congregation. [00:21:43] These songs can make us feel closer to God. And that's a place where music is a beautiful thing. 

Music can be just amazing. It can take us to places emotionally that would just be hard to get to any other way. But because of that, when the messaging is not on point, it can take us down some really strange roads. And those transformative moments can transform us into people that we ultimately don't want to be.

Laura Dugger: Yes. So very important to be wise and discerning with the inputs. I'd love to hear eventually many more of the positives because there's so many things we can enjoy as a family or with our peers. But first, I think it is important to zero in on some of the alarming statistics or warnings that we need to make sure we're aware of. So will you share just some of the helpful truths from your book about the impact of the devices on our brain? [00:22:46] 

Paul Asay: Yeah, absolutely. There is more and more evidence that screens can impact us in really harmful ways. In many ways, I know that this is sort of a controversial word to use within this context, but it can bring all the harbingers of addiction.

An addiction therapist from England talked about how giving a smartphone to a kid is a little like giving them a gram of cocaine because of how damaging and addictive it can be. That is something that we should be really, really mindful of when we think about our kids. 

For those of us who had kids who had phones, we know that it can be the very last thing they look at before they go to bed. It can be the very first thing they look at in the morning. It is attached to their hands in ways where it's almost a part of their body and being. They can spend more time interacting with screens than they might spend interacting with real people. [00:23:52] 

And that is a really interesting dynamic that we have not seen in all the thousands of years that we've been around. That is a dynamic that is new — the ability to interact with screens so much. It really has become sort of a conduit, the primary way that so many kids and teens spend time with their own friends. So it's a very significant part of their lives. 

These screens have a way of moving us out of reality and into worlds of our own design. You can see that in the TV shows that we watch, the movies that we watch, the TikTok vids that we watch. We can escape from the real world. And these phones give us an opportunity to make that escape. 

In addition, when you're looking at social media, we can design worlds, shape worlds essentially that are to our own liking too. Everybody knows that society is probably as polarized as it has ever been. [00:24:54] It seems very, very difficult to talk with people who might disagree with you. And part of that, I think a large part of it can be attributed to the internet, technology, and social media because we sort of form these communities where everybody kind of sort of agrees with us.

Back in the old days when you sat down at a barbershop or hung out with friends, there was no guarantee that everybody would share your thoughts and feelings on everything that you think and feel. But now you really can select exactly what you think is right and spend time with people who think the very same things, which means that a lot of our preconceptions are no longer challenged. It keeps us away from thinking proactively. So there are so many different ways in which these screens impact us. 

Another really simple example that I see in my own life, I don't look at maps anymore. [00:25:53] I rely on my phone to tell me where to go. That I think is pretty interesting. You have these incredible tools that we use all the time. And in a lot of ways, they are incredibly helpful and incredibly useful. And yet, because of how helpful and useful they are, it moves us into a space where we're not necessarily thinking as much for ourselves. We lose our attention spans. We lean more toward feelings, less into thoughts. That can really impact how we process the world around us. 

There's a lot of brain chemistry that goes into it. But studies have shown that we tend to... nowadays, because of our reliance on technology, our limbic region of our brains, where sort of the emotional and behavioral responses lives, don't get nearly as much input from sort of the rational part of our brains because it takes more time and more energy. [00:26:59] And our phones and some of the technology that we use gives us an excuse to avoid some of those taxing, thoughtful things that our brains used to be so good at.

Laura Dugger: Wow, that is so interesting because it makes me think there are definitely wise times to abstain because of all these reasons. But there are also times to redeem technology, to redeem media. So if you're thinking of ideas of best practices that you've seen or recommendations you have for teens and families, what are some of your best ideas for redeeming media and technology?

Paul Asay: It's a great question. I think I would start by talking about some of the beautiful moments that technology can bring into your family's life. My daughter and I have always loved really terrible B-old sci-fi movies, the 1950s, 1960s sci-fi movies. [00:28:04] 

We have watched many of those, sat side by side from the time she was 14 to the present day. We watch those movies and we spend time just making fun of them and enjoying each other's company as we do so. When you think about Christmastime, there are so many incredibly beautiful traditions that many of our families have built up around Christmastime.

But for many families, a lot of it might be watching a special Christmas movie together. It's a Wonderful Life is one of my very favorite movies. A lot of families love Elf. There's a ton of movies that are navigable for families that can become moments of togetherness. And that can be one of the beautiful things about entertainment, that it brings us together. 

You know, we were talking a little bit about music earlier and I think about what I was saying, the transformative feeling of music in church. [00:29:04] That is another place where you feel connected. When you go to a music concert and you're with thousands of other people, there is something powerful about that moment.

And that power isn't all bad. There can be a real beauty in that power, that beauty of enjoying something communally. Entertainment so often can be sort of that communal structure, that thing that brings us together, just as stories always have. We resonate with the stories that we're told. They can help us see into the lives of somebody who's sitting next to you, who we might not necessarily understand that much about. But the stories that we share, the commonalities that we have, can help bring us closer together. 

So that's a really long-winded way of saying entertainment can be beautiful. And it's at its most beautiful, I think, when it's a communal thing, when it brings families and people together. [00:30:04] 

But obviously we need to be mindful of the amount of time that we spend with it and make sure that we keep it in sort of that vein where it's communal. When you talk about these phones, that's one thing that they have helped transform entertainment in. It becomes a singular thing. We watch TikTok videos alone. We watch whole TV shows alone. It becomes something that separates us instead of bringing us together. 

So when we're talking about families and how they should manage these screens that can be so powerful and so good in a lot of ways, sort of push away some of the bad elements for them, a couple of really simple things to think about. 

When you're watching stuff, try to watch it all together. This sounds really old-fashioned today, but carve out some time to watch a really fun family movie together. Carve out a space where you can come together as a family and enjoy something that you all enjoy that you can talk about afterwards. [00:31:07] And be mindful of those times when those screens can separate us.

I would really encourage parents, no matter how old their kids are, to carve out some spaces in their home that are phone-free zones. We don't bring the phone into the kitchen, for instance. Or your bedroom is not a place for your phone.

If you can, try to institute maybe a rule where they actually put down their phone maybe an hour or so before bed. Studies have shown that looking at a phone right before you go to sleep can really, really impact sleep patterns. So an hour away from a screen before you go to bed can be incredibly helpful in sort of calibrating our sleep patterns. So try to think about ways how you can actually remove that phone, remove that temptation from a child's bedroom. 

We always had a rule, no phones at the dinner table. We never used phones at the dinner table because that was a time for face-to-face communication, conversation, talking about the day, talking about issues that are really impacting all of us. [00:32:14] You need to have those face-to-face times. 

And as much as possible, make sure that those screens that are so much a part of our kids' lives are in your sight, within your purview. I think that those are good guidelines. I know that those can be difficult to adhere to in this media-saturated world. I know that it can be very daunting to take away phones even for a time from your kids because they love them so much. But as much as you can as a family, curb some of that time. Don't eliminate it but curb it so that you can spend some time face-to-face, eye-to-eye. I think that's really important.

Laura Dugger: I agree with you because that's training their affections to be more for relationship rather than training their affections to be for this thing they may naturally love but isn't the healthiest to binge on. [00:33:13] To kind of sum it up, what I'm hearing is themes of recommending togetherness and dialogue rather than separation or isolation or greedy consumption. 

But what are some proactive ways we can disciple our children towards healthy stewardship of technology?

Paul Asay: I think it's really instituting some of those really nuts and bolts basic rules. Later is better when it comes to technology. Try to keep your kids as free of screens for as long as you can. That will serve them well. Make sure that you keep some places in your house that are screen-free. Always, always, always try to keep the screens, the technology that we use within a relational framework, if you will.

We relate to screens a lot and we need to be mindful of how we relate to them because as we know, whenever we go overboard on anything, it can be really unhealthy. [00:34:21] A lot of people compare... and we do this in the book. We compare screens to sugar. The technology that we use can be sugar. And the younger you are, of course, the more sugar you want. You don't see that there's anything wrong with eating Cocoa Pebbles for every meal every day because our bodies crave that sugar.

The younger you are, the more you crave those screens. And as parents, just as we don't give our kids Cocoa Pebbles for every meal, we need to be mindful of keeping their screens in check too. That involves screen-free zones. It involves screen-free time. 

And most especially, something that you said, Laura, just now that really I want to drive home, the dialogue. Talking with your kids, there is no, no replacement for that. 

One of the things that I think as your kids get older, parents can feel like their children, especially as they get into their early mid-teens, they're not even listening to mom and dad anymore. [00:35:22] That is not true. That is categorically false.

Even when it seems like your kids are not listening to you, they are. Even though you have so many other influences coming into your kids' lives from friends to teachers to especially the screens that they watch, mom and dad are still far and away the most influential figures in your child's life. 

They are craving conversation.  They are craving dialogue. They are craving guidance to help them navigate this crazy, crazy world that we live in. They need it, they want it, even when they don't seem like they do. And so you need to be very, very mindful of keeping those lines of communication open. 

Talk with your kids. Talk with them about what they're seeing on screens. Talk with them about what they're reading on social media. [00:36:23] Make sure that you are in their lives powerfully because they need you. They need to have your influence in their lives. There is no replacement for a mom and dad. 

Even when the conversations are difficult, even when they're uncomfortable, come in and embrace those opportunities to talk because those opportunities to talk, those are what are going to be most impactful in shaping your child's life.

Laura Dugger: I want to take a moment to say thank you. You are the reason our team gets to delight in this work, and we appreciate each of you so very much. If you're benefiting from the lessons learned and applied from The Savvy Sauce, would you take a minute to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts?

Five-star ratings and reviews help us reach more people around the globe, and that promotes our goal of sharing joy. So join us in that endeavor with your valuable feedback. Thanks again for being here with us. [00:37:24] 

Do you have any questions that you suggest we ask our kids and even begin to train them to ask themselves?

Paul Asay: Yeah, absolutely. I think that it really begins with just making it as conversational as possible. You know, when you watch a movie, it's good to just sort of say, okay, what did you love about this movie? What did you like about this particular character? 

Talk with them honestly. Were there things about this movie that scared you? Were there things that made you worry or bothered you? Did some questions sort of pop up as you were watching these movies? Because a lot of times, I know in my own life, even now, even now as a movie reviewer, I will go to a movie and it will make me think about an issue that I hadn't thought about before or think about it in a slightly different way.

That's one of the beauties and powers of movie. But it can also be a stumbling point too if it doesn't have the guidance that a parent can bring into the conversation. [00:38:28] So really just talking naturally when you're talking about a movie, when you're talking about a TV show, to just ask some really basic questions because those questions can lead to other questions.

Another thing that has been surprisingly helpful in a lot of the lives of families that we hear from, and granted, the families we hear from use Plugged In a lot, they really take media discernment seriously. But because they have used our resource so often, sometimes they will actually go to their child. Their child will say, "I want to see this movie." And the parent will say, "Well, let's go ahead and look at Plugged In together and see what it says." 

And they'll read the review for whatever movie it is. And then the parent will say, "So what do you think? Do you think that this is a movie that's appropriate for you? Do you think that this is going to be something that you should watch?" And surprisingly, often, kids will say, you know what? I think I'm going to wait a year or two for this. I don't think that it's appropriate. [00:39:35] 

So sometimes even bringing them into the decision-making process when it comes to entertainment, when it comes to technology, you might be surprised at how mature your kids are actually processing the decision. When you give them a say, it could go surprisingly well. 

Now, let's be honest. I'm not sure if I would have been that kid. There are going to be kids who might go a totally different way. But at the same time, you might be surprised at how mature your kids are really dealing with it.

Laura Dugger: Also I'll just share a couple of things that I learned from you while reading these sections about interacting and dialoguing with our children. I love this one question. I'm just going to read it verbatim. You said, "What images or content bothered you or stayed with you?" I think that's so helpful. 

And then also you go into detail about running the media through the filter of Philippians 4:8. [00:40:35] So there's just all kinds of practical takeaways in the book. But also as I think of being parents, and we do have a responsibility to some point to protect our children. So are there any certain types of movies or apps or video games or social media that you just say a blanket no to?

Paul Asay: It's a great question. I would say there would be a few. And those would be entertainment options that are really predicated on sin itself, right? Technology that involves cheating. There's a lot of cheating apps out there or things that are designed to actually keep secrets from their parents. Those are things you want to stay away from.

Obviously, pornography is a huge issue. Anything that feels like pornography, you would want to stay away from. Things that are predicated on what is absolutely opposite of Philippians 4:8. [00:41:33] Whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely. You want to push away from those as much as possible. 

That said, one of our primary objectives at Plugged In is to keep the decisions in parents' hand. I think that moms and dads know their kids far better than we do. Moms and dads know their weaknesses, know what might be tempting, what might be really problematic or troubling, what might give them nightmares far better than we do. And sometimes some really difficult movies that you would say, Oh, I would be really cautious about this and we should be really cautious about it, sometimes those can hit people in a certain way that actually helps them more than you would expect.

For instance, horror movies are something that a lot of parents would say, no, we are not watching this. I hate horror movies. I don't want my kids watching it. And that is absolutely, absolutely right. [00:42:36] But Plugged In will probably not say never go see a horror movie because we have tons of stories of people who look at some of those movies with their really strong definitions of good and evil. The idea of this spiritual battle between light and dark that sometimes resonates with people.

I know people who have actually been drawn closer to Christ after watching a horror movie. And so entertainment is so much not only about what it is distributing to you, but what you bring to the party. And so it would be hard to give too many blanket answers. It's always so, so contextual.

Laura Dugger: That's very balanced response. I really appreciate that. Let's just begin to wind down our time with a story to illustrate why this all matters. So as your book had a few contributing authors, can you share one of the stories that one of the authors wrote about their dad when he was a residential assistant in college? [00:43:44] 

Paul Asay: Yeah, absolutely. His name is Kennedy Unthank and his father was a residential assistant in college. You know, he was very, very mindful of his entertainment choices. Right? And there was one moment, if I'm remembering the story correctly, where he refused to watch a movie, refused to watch a movie in college. And obviously, college is a time where if you're staying away from certain movies because it doesn't fit your moral structure, you're going to get some mocking for that.

Some people are going to judge you for that. And there was one woman who judged him pretty harshly for that. But the moment stuck in that woman's brain for 10 years and later they had an opportunity to connect. And she told him that that moment that she scorned him so much for she thought about every week of her life and it wound up being an instrumental moment in her life as she drew closer to Christ herself. [00:44:51] 

She used that moment that... you know, I am sure that Kennedy's dad was feeling really embarrassed and thought that there was nothing good that can come from it. But when we have those experiences, it's always planting seeds. We never know when we do good for Christ, how that is going to be impacting people who are with us.

Sometimes those seeds take a long time to germinate. And this was 10 years for this woman. But because of that act of courage by one of my co-workers' dads, that woman came to Christ. And that's an important thing for us to remember in our everyday lives.

Laura Dugger: That is so powerful. Paul, I've just enjoyed this conversation so much, but you have a lot to still offer. So if we want to continue learning more from you, where would you direct us to go after this chat?

Paul Asay: The best place is really to go to PluggedIn.com. This is a Plugged In project, as we've noted. Our staff is really passionate about teaching many a sermon, talking about technology, talking about how you can use it in your family's life for better, not for worse. [00:46:00] 

Obviously, all of our reviews are there, but we do a lot of talking on the blog. And we're able to let our personalities come out a little bit on that blog. And we also have a podcast that you can find on PluggedIn.com. We really enjoy the conversations that we have on our podcast. It is really free form. We all are very different. So that can lead to a lot of spirited conversations. 

But those are really healthy and fun and energizing. And I hope that the people who listen to our podcast enjoy them as much as I enjoy participating in them.

Laura Dugger: I love that. We will certainly link to all of those places in the show notes for today's episode. You may be familiar that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so as my final question for you today, Paul, what is your savvy sauce?

Paul Asay: It's a great question. I love that. [00:47:00] I'll be honest. I recently wrote another book sort of about my experience with depression. I've dealt with depression for most of my adult life. One thing that I have learned to do, one of the things that helps me practically every day of my life is I wake up and I think of three things to be grateful for, to thank God for. It can be really simple things. Hot water. When I take a shower, it's really nice to have hot water.  It can be for big things. How my parents raised me. The love of my kids. It can be those things that we can lean into. 

But I think when we start off our day showing gratitude, it changes the whole tenor of the time that we're dealing with so many problems, so many issues that come up with us every single day. To be grateful, to know that you have so many reasons to be grateful for. I think that that can really adjust the tenor of everybody's day. [00:48:02] 

Laura Dugger: Wow. Thank you so much for being transparent as you share that. I just have experienced you as such a humble and gracious man to converse with. So thank you for teaching us how to steward this well in our own lives and help to steward this well for our family. I just appreciate you, Paul, and I want to say thank you for being my guest.

Paul Asay: Well, I have really, really enjoyed it. Thank you so much, Laura.

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves.

This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior. [00:49:04] 

But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news.

Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us.

Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. [00:50:05] Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started? 

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John. 

Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. [00:51:08] 

We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.