113 Supernatural Restoration Story with Bob and Audrey Meisner

*DISCLAIMER* Parts of this message are not intended for little ears

 

113. Supernatural Restoration Story with Bob and Audrey Meisner

 

**Transcription Below**

 

Proverbs 17:9 says “He who covers over an offense promotes love, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends.”

 

Bob and Audrey Meisner are best-selling authors, conference speakers, and Founders of Love Married Life ®. They both have their Doctorates in Ministry and specialize in helping marriages build and maintain phenomenal love. Their message of hope is authenticated by their own compelling story of God rescuing their marriage.

 

Known for their joy, transparency and practical principles, their message of God’s unconditional love, forgiveness and hope has been featured around the world through magazine articles, TV programs and churches. Bob and Audrey have four children and live in Phoenix, Arizona

 

At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. 

 

Books by Bob and Audrey Meisner:

 

Marriage Undercover

Best Friends, Best Lovers

Your Supernatural Marriage

Like Yourself, Love Your Life by Audrey Meisner

Wake Up Smiling by Audrey Meisner

Free E-Books: My Communication Goals and My Personality Goals

 

Bob and Audrey Meisner’s Website

Bob and Audrey Meisner’s Podcast

Bob and Audrey Meisner’s Marriage Intensive

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage

 

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

 

[00:00:18] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message. 

 

I am thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, Winshape Marriage. Their weekend retreats will strengthen your marriage, and you will enjoy this gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at Winshapemarriage.org. That's winshapemarriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.

 

I heard an incredible story over a decade ago, and it has always stuck with me. Then recently, I came across Proverbs 17:9, and I couldn't get that story out of my head. Proverbs 17:9 says, "He who covers over an offense promotes love, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends." [00:01:20] 

 

This scripture always reminds me of Bob and Audrey Meisner. So after I closed my Bible that day, I emailed them and requested they would be guests on this episode, and they said yes! So here we are. I hope your faith is expanded after hearing this redemptive story.

 

Here's our chat. 

 

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Bob and Audrey.

 

Audrey Meisner: Oh my gosh, we have been so excited about this. I love the title of your podcast. I just think it's so unique and fun, and I'm always about the fun.

 

Bob Meisner: Yeah, the time that we'll spend together, I believe, will be extremely meaningful and beneficial to the listener.

 

Audrey Meisner: Mm-hmm. We're honored to be here, Laura.

 

Laura Dugger: Well, I'm so thrilled to have both of you. I've admired you from afar.

 

Bob Meisner: Wow.

 

Audrey Meisner: Aw, I love that. We're family together. I love to say that we're not just like family, because we are family. We really all share such mutual belief in knowing that Jesus is amazing. And so we get to share that together. [00:02:24] 

 

Laura Dugger: Absolutely. I'm so excited for people to hear your story. So let's just begin with you two taking us back to how you first met each other.

 

Audrey Meisner: We started with a friendship. Bob was my brother's roommate, my big brother's roommate. It was a friendship, but I remember the moment we started sharing hearts with each other. I remember we would have these conversations, like, "There's something about me. This is not friends anymore." And we got to get out of the friend zone. 

 

And so it took a while. I had to, you know, drop some pretty stark hints. We started dating for a couple of months, and then we got engaged right away.

 

Bob Meisner: We got engaged that summer, and then we lived apart for a year. She went back to school. I went home to my home state, Michigan. And we spent, you know, basically a year apart.

 

Audrey Meisner: Engaged.

 

Bob Meisner: Engaged. And then that next summer we were married.

 

Audrey Meisner: Yeah.

 

Bob Meisner: So it was pretty quick.

 

Audrey Meisner: And we've been in ministry our entire lives. We immediately started working together for my parents' ministry in Canada. [00:03:24] And it was just very natural for us to love people. I think that, you know, we were very attracted to each other, like we just wanted to get married now. You know how that is once you know. And so we spent that year apart. We just dove into full-time ministry and just loved life together.

 

Bob Meisner: What we really enjoyed about each other, you know, from the very beginning, is that, you know, we love the Lord, we wanted to be world changers. We believed that the two of us together, we would be able to do something that we couldn't do apart from each other.

 

And I think that's one of the beauties of marriage, you know, where the two really come together and create a unified vision. Honestly, we are better together than we are apart.

 

Audrey Meisner: And so we got married, and we just... I even remember on our honeymoon, Laura, that I looked at... like we were young. We were 19 and 21. But I looked at Bob, and I said, "You know what? We could have kids, and no one could stop us. Like we're adults. No one can tell us what we can't do, you know? [00:04:25] 

 

Bob Meisner: But we thought the wise or smart thing to do would be to at least wait a couple years.

 

Audrey Meisner: Yes. 

 

Bob Meisner: So we did. 

 

Audrey Meisner: We barely waited.

 

Bob Meisner: But we really wanted and loved children.

 

Audrey Meisner: Yeah, we couldn't wait to have kids. So it was pretty early in our marriage where we had three kids in five years. We had a boy and then a girl and a boy. And just loved being parents together.

 

Bob Meisner: We loved married life. 

 

Laura Dugger: Well, and I just want to say this upfront, that we all already love you and root for you. But I know we have to go through the sin and ashes to then discover the beauty that comes later. So about 17 years into your marriage, what happened?

 

Bob Meisner: All I could say is that I believe we had the best marriage imaginable. This was not on the radar. We weren't arguing. We weren't fighting with each other. Life wasn't difficult. In fact, life was busy. Audrey and I were very, very busy doing really good things. [00:05:26] An international children's television program. A national daily Christian TV.

 

Audrey Meisner: We were pastoring a church together.

 

Bob Meisner: We were pastoring a church. And we just thought, "What more could we do?"

 

Audrey Meisner: You hear the busyness of three entire careers all happening at the same time, plus raising our kids. So I remember years back when we had been in service, and I heard the words "Beware of the barrenness of busyness". And it's a really silent, covert operation when you just start making choices to just keep helping people and just losing that connection. Even though you're getting along, we just were missing the connection.

 

Laura Dugger: So you're in ministry, you've got children in the home right now. And at this point, their ages are teenagers?

 

Audrey Meisner: Yeah, they were like 10, 12, and 15 years old. Let me just set the stage for what happened here, Laura, because it was on my part, we were busy, and I was just working really hard. [00:06:29] I remember just feeling that quiet desperation of feeling trapped in my life, that we were too committed to too many things. And I was starting to dread every new day because I was the happy one. I'm the fun one.

 

So I've got to wake up and put that... I don't want to call it a mask because I truly was happy as far as I'm a joyful person. But the exhaustion and the over-responsibility was just weighing on me, and I never felt like I could ever do enough to get everything done in the day. I was starting to feel just literally exhausted. I was not telling him about this at all. This was a very silent struggle that I was going through.

 

A young guy started coming to the church that we were pastoring, and he started just asking me... He just started noticing all the work I was doing. And you know what's really weird is it just felt good for somebody to notice. He said, "Does anyone know how much you do in a day? Does anyone see what you're doing?" And I just went, "Wow." [00:07:30] 

 

And what happened was I felt like my heart just got heard. Like somebody noticed that maybe it's not that easy or that I'm going through more than anyone might know. So he touched a place in my heart which drew me into this friendship with him.

 

And we were more like I was helping him, and it was just one of those relationships where, Oh, we're just friends. And I'm so glad that I can be friends with this guy because he's helping me. Now he's starting to tell me how beautiful I am and I thought, "Oh, my gosh, that feels so good. We need to get you a girlfriend." But I was just happy for the attention and happy for the help.

 

So this just became a friendship. That's where I can say that I made a small compromise, and that was just that I started having private email conversations with him. I started thinking, "A little compromise, I can go out for lunch with him."

 

This is the part that is so sobering because there's no such thing as a small compromise because when you start to lean towards sin, sin will take you further than you ever dreamed it would go. [00:08:37] Sin is never satisfied. It kept wanting more. Wanted that next conversation, wanted to get a little bit more private, maybe a little more intimate.

 

Before long, that friendship lasted a while, but it did turn into a sexual affair. And that is something I never dreamed that I was even capable of because I loved Jesus all my life. I love my husband. I love my kids. We're leaders. My passion is to bring people to Jesus, so now I'm carrying this intense secret. I cannot even describe to you the turmoil of living a dual life, like a duplicity of lying so that I can get out of the house. 

 

All of a sudden, I was on this crazy train, and I was carrying this secret, and I was emotionally like a junior high person. I knew that everything that I was doing went against who I was. 

 

After three weeks of having this sexual affair, we stopped the affair, and he immediately moved away the next day. [00:09:37] I said, "You're going to have to leave town." And that was when I just made the decision, I will never do that again. I am going to repent. No one ever needs to know about this because this will never happen again. Nobody knows, and it'll never happen again.

 

So there I was with my secret. I planned on keeping the secret, but it was only a couple days of me, you know, just really praying and asking God to forgive me. And I heard that still small voice in my heart saying, "You need to tell Bob." And I resisted it. I fought it. I thought, "No, no, no, no, no, no, he doesn't have to know. I'll just be such a good girl. I'll just make up for this and be really good." See, the enemy loves secrets, and the secret has a power to divide intimacy. Even if it's an unspoken secret, it has power. 

 

A couple days after that guy left town, I'm not a confrontational person. I hadn't confronted Bob in 17 years about anything. I'm a people pleaser. [00:10:39] This is completely against me, but everything in me just fell at his feet and said, "Honey, we need to talk." And I still remember exactly where you are. When you have a moment like this in your life, you do not forget where you are.

 

I remember the office, the empty office. I remember the chair in the corner, and I just fell at Bob's feet and I said, "Honey, I've got to tell you something. I had an affair. I committed adultery."

 

Laura Dugger: Wow. And such a tender moment in the office. So, Bob, at that point when you first heard the news, how did you respond?

 

Bob Meisner: Not well. I could say that. It was like a real surprise because I know her. And this is completely incongruent with who she is and who we are as a couple and as a family. So I began to ask questions. I began to interrogate. I found out who it was, when. You know, it just began to compile. I just became angry. [00:11:40] 

 

But the only thought that I had in my mind was, I don't have an answer, but I don't want this to ever happen again. So it's not just like a little oops or a hiccup in the relationship and, you know, okay, I forgive you. Let's move on. 

 

It was like, how do I express anger? You know, how do I really show I'm really disappointed? Honestly, I was clueless of what to do. And I remember storming out of the room and I sat at my office desk and I stared at a blank wall and I just simply whispered, "Holy Spirit, I don't know what to do." 

 

But it was that such small act of humility and he immediately answered me and he began a rescue plan for me. He began a rescue plan for my marriage, you know, for our family. And he reminded me of a gentleman that I had met about a year earlier and he said, "Call him." [00:12:40] 

 

I called him. I let him know what I was going through, and the first question that he asked me was, "Who knows?" I said, "Nobody." He says, "Good, let's keep it that way." And I was like, "But I need to get more people involved. I mean, this is a big deal. I mean, we need to create at least a committee to figure out how are we going to fix this?"

 

And he said, "Bob," he says, "Don't you tell anyone until we have more time to talk later this evening." Well, that evening we got together and we, you know, sat and we spoke over a speakerphone and he began to challenge me, which I was so surprised because I was just waiting for him to begin to correct and, you know, Audrey, how could you have done this? You were so wrong. What were you thinking? None of that happened. And he began to challenge me. 

 

I was really surprised because he began to challenge me with the heart of God. [00:13:41] Proverbs 25 too says this, "It's God's glory to conceal a matter and for a king to discover its understanding." Everything inside of me wanted to expose and wanted to shame. Everything inside of me wanted to control. It was being driven by fear. And he's challenging me with the heart of a Father, with the heart of God. And he says, "That's not his nature. He is one who covers."

 

Now, it's not that he turns a blind eye, it's not that he ignores, but rather He covers. And in covering, there are two primary principles. The first one is to protect from any further injury or harm. And then the second one is to promote healing. When we've been caught or wounded, we go immediately and we cover that wound. We protect that wound. 

 

Everything inside of me wanted to expose and to shame Audrey. [00:14:41] There was so much fear inside of me. I just wanted to force my will. But that's not the heart of God. God covers and He covers me. And so I'm being challenged that very first night, Bob, will you cover your wife? Rather than exposing her, rather than shaming her, would you sense the love of God? And would you love her? And would you cover her?

 

You see, I think so often when these kinds of things happen, we blow them up and we just really prolong the healing process. And it's just like, what is the heart of God? I mean, I was being really challenged. And all that I knew is that I was out of my mind and this man knows something that I don't. So I had to trust him. I had to believe him.

 

And so that began. Then the next day, Audrey told her parents. We were living in Winnipeg. [00:15:42] We went to Phoenix for about a week. We got some help there. And it was almost as though, Okay, we're on a path of recovery.

 

Laura Dugger: I can hear the tenderness as you both share this and just God's grace is so evident.

 

Bob Meisner: You know what, Laura? I want to underscore that. A lot of people can misinterpret it and think, Oh, man, that dude's still hurting over this. Well, you know, it hurts. But when I go back and I remember moments like this, I become tender and I can feel the emotion because it was in my deepest hurt, in my deepest pain where I have been the most loved. And when I sense and feel and I know that love, it's wow. You see, it's love that really does conquer all. [00:16:43] 

 

Audrey Meisner: It's those times of pain where you just experience Jesus like you never even dreamed.

 

Bob Meisner: That love is so real.

 

Audrey Meisner: It's so real. And when you need Him, He's there. Everyone who's been in a lot of pain knows what it feels like when you go to bed and Jesus is the last thing before you close off. And when you first wake up, you need Him so much. 

 

So we got through those first couple weeks. I can't say it was easy. It was so painful, the continual interrogation, you know, just needing details, of course, of what I did. And every time I'd answer a question, I would just feel ripped from the inside of me that I have to say out loud what I had done. 

 

After about two weeks, we were okay, like, considering what was happening. That's when we found out... We went to a doctor's office and we found out that I had become pregnant as a result of the affair. And I remember walking to that doctor's office and I thought, "When I told Bob about this affair, I didn't think I could face my future. [00:17:46] But now that I was pregnant, I didn't think I could face my life. 

 

I didn't see any form or idea of hope because this baby would not look like the other kids. The other kids are like 10, 12, and 15 years old. The enemy just screamed in my head, "You're going to be known for the rest of your life for this most stupid and selfish thing that you've ever done. And your kids are going to have to pay. Their lives are going to be broken and tainted and confused."

 

I love my kids so much. And the thought of them having to pay for my selfishness in some way in their lives, like, it's just such a contradiction because I just want to protect my kids from pain. And here this is going to be like a forever stain on our family. 

 

I didn't know what to do. To say I was scared is an understatement. I was scared out of my mind. As I said, the baby won't look like the others. [00:18:45] It's going to be obvious to everyone. I'm disqualified from everything I felt like I was born to do, which was to love people and tell people about Jesus.

 

A couple days after I found that out, I was alone in the kitchen and I was in torment and I made a phone call and I called the abortion clinic. And I said, "What do I do if I have to remain anonymous? What do I do?" And they said, "Oh, it's really easy. You just have to give us your address and we'll send you 10 pills in the mail. And you just take one every week for 10 weeks and your problem will be gone." 

 

And I hung up the phone and I fell to my knees. And I just said, "Father, I said, you're my dad. You're my dad in heaven." And I said, "Please, please, I know I can't get an abortion because two wrongs do not make a right. Everything in me is saying I can't destroy this baby. [00:19:47] But Father, if you love me, if you love me, I've wanted to serve you all my conscious years since I was three years old. I just want to serve you. But if you could just please, please, I'm begging you, take this baby to heaven now."

 

I begged him for a miscarriage. So just take this baby to heaven. And as I say that, it's so emotional for me because I'm sitting here today just saying he did not answer that prayer. You know how we have these great ideas of how God could fix everything. But He says, "You know what? I'm not going to evacuate you out of your circumstances. But, Audrey, I'm going to come right to where you are and I'm going to hold you. And together, we are going to take it one day at a time and we are going to walk through." 

 

The famous Psalm says, "Though you walk through the valley of the shadow of death, you fear no evil for I'm with you and my rod and my staff they comfort you." [00:20:48] And just that word "comfort" because every day He comforts us. 

 

And when we're in pain and fear, so scared that we can't make it through, His presence becomes so real and His hope becomes your anchor that that's the only thing that you can hope for. So I didn't follow through with that. 

 

It was a couple of days later, I was alone in the car with my dad and I have a very, very merciful, loving, earthly dad. I was alone in the car with him and I felt so safe with him because he wasn't judging me. And I said, "Dad, I don't know what to do because there's a baby. I don't know how to face my life because there's a baby.

 

And he put his hand on my shoulder and he just said one thing. He said, "Audrey, that's what you did. But that is not who you are." [00:21:48] And those words came over me and I chose to make those the forefront of my every day, all day. That is what I did but that is not who I am. 

 

People in this world and on this earth will judge you by your worst mistake. But my heavenly father calls me His own. He calls me his daughter. And He says that He's never going to leave me. He's never going to turn his back on me. But he's going to be with me.

 

Laura Dugger: And what I admire about both of you is that in these times of distress, you turned toward the Lord, you called out for Him and he answered with loving kindness as He always does.

 

Audrey Meisner: So true, Laura. 

 

Laura Dugger: Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor. 

 

Sponsor: I'm so excited to share today's sponsor, Winshape Marriage, with you. Winshape Marriage is a fantastic ministry that helps couples prepare, strengthen, and if needed, even save their marriage. [00:22:54] Winshape Marriage is grounded on the belief that the strongest marriages are the ones that are nurtured, even if it seems like things are going smoothly. That way, they'll be stronger if they do hit a bump along their marital journey.

 

Through their weekend retreats, Winshape Marriage invites couples to enjoy time away to simply focus on each other. These weekend retreats are hosted within the beautiful refuge of Winshape Retreat, perched in the mountains of Rome, Georgia, which is just a short drive from Atlanta, Birmingham, and Chattanooga. 

 

While you and your spouse are there, you'll be well-fed, well-nurtured, and well-cared for. During your time away in this beautiful place, you and your spouse will learn from expert speakers and explore topics related to intimacy, overcoming challenges, improving communication, and so much more. 

 

I've stayed on-site at Winshape before, and I can attest to their generosity, food, and content. You will be so grateful you went.

 

To find an experience that's right for you and your spouse, head to their website, WinshapeMarriage.org. That's WinshapeMarriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship. [00:23:58] 

 

Laura Dugger: And so at this point, how did you choose together to tell your children the news?

 

Bob Meisner: We resigned all of our positions, you know, living there in Canada, and we moved to Phoenix, Arizona. I'm a born American citizen, and so we were able to do that. But it wasn't that we were running from anything, but rather we were going to a place. We needed help. I knew that in and of myself, I didn't have it. So I needed direction.

 

You know, as Audrey said earlier, I don't want to mess up my family. You see, in my life, I know the pains of divorce as a young person, you know, with my parents walking through it. And it's just like, I don't want my kids to experience this. And so, God, I need you to be real. And that's what you're saying, Laura. We turned to Him. [00:24:57] But then all of a sudden, everything that you know about or believe about God, I need it to be real. I need it to be for me. That was where I was going.

 

Because everything that I had learned, everything that I had ever read, anything that I had ever preached, I needed it to be my reality. And so I just began to press hard, recognizing how deficient I was. But He is my source. And so Audrey's about four months pregnant and it was just after dinner one evening and I'm going through the process and I'm being challenged again in my heart by my pastor. You know, you can cover Audrey. And so I'm learning this covering. And it's not just how I cover her. But you can't give what you first don't experience. And I'm going through the process of experiencing the extravagance of the Father's love and He's covering me. You see, He's more than enough for me. And when that becomes mine, now I can give it away.

 

So she's four months pregnant, we have, you know, a typical classic Meisner family meeting up in the bedroom. And the kids walk in, and they enter the room and they see their mom and dad sitting on the floor crying. I remember my 15-year-old son. Just fear gripped his heart. And you could see it on his face. It's just like, uh-oh, something's really wrong. [00:26:34] 

 

My daughter, 13, she comes in, and my son, 10 years old, he comes in, and here we are, a family of five and everything's about to change. But before I said one word, I stood up and I went and I pulled a large queen-size blanket from the bed. And I took that blanket and I covered Audrey from head to foot. And then I knelt down beside her and I wrapped my arms around her and I held her tight. And I looked deep into my children's eyes and I said, "Kids, this is what God does when we make a mistake. He comes to us and He covers us. He wraps His arms around us and He begins to whisper, 'I'll never leave you. I'll never forsake you.'" 

 

With Audrey covered and held in my arms, I looked deep in my children's eyes and I said, "Kids, we're a family. I'm not going anywhere. [00:27:36] We belong with each other." And with Audrey fully covered, I said, "Kids, your mom has made a mistake but you're going to have a baby brother."

 

Well, immediately, my oldest son, he's crying. He understood what had happened. My daughter, she's crying. But it only took her but a moment. And she begins to grin from ear to ear and she stares me down. And she says, "Daddy, we're having a baby." And she feels my pain and starts to cry. But she cannot contain the excitement. And she just looks at me eye to eye, "Daddy, we're having a baby." 

 

My 10-year-old son, David, he's watching all of this and he says, "I just don't get it." He says, "At least I'm not going to be the youngest anymore." That's how we told our kids. We went from that room as a family. We're a family. And we belong with each other. [00:28:39] 

 

We had, again, good days-

 

Audrey Meisner: It wasn't always easy.

 

Bob Meisner: Oh, gosh, not always easy.

 

Audrey Meisner: It was the hardest. Absolutely one of the most challenging days of our life where God was meeting us in those days.

 

Bob Meisner: Yeah. Audrey would grow and get larger and my daughter is just loving this baby, you know, rubbing Mommy's tummy, talking to the baby, you know. And then she would look at me as like, "Is this okay, Dad?" And I'm like, "Yes, sweetheart. You love that baby with everything that you've got."

 

And so it was. It was very, very challenging for me. And there was just such an immaturity. I needed to grow up. And I had no idea the depth of that in my own life.

 

Laura Dugger: Wow. Now how has life changed for both of you since that moment?

 

Bob Meisner: I'd like to kind of share with the people how this baby was born. I mean, that's a pretty cool day. [00:29:40] But I'll back it up just a little bit, because I kept asking my pastor, my friend, to help me, you know, just tell me what to do and he continually refused, because it's just like, I've got to get to God's throne room myself. I don't need him to be my answer. I need God to be my answer. I need Him to be my source. 

 

But this one morning, we're having just a quick coffee together and I'm like, what do I do? Because I had a real national presence. So I had people calling me saying, "Bob and Audrey, you're doing so good, but you can't keep this baby. Don't bring that added pressure to your marriage. Don't bring that to your children." We have people in the church, "You can adopt this baby out."

 

So that morning I was with Him, and I'm just like, "Leo, what do I do? What do I do?" Finally, it was almost as though he had enough of me, and he says, "Bob, there's a baby on your doorstep. [00:30:42] What do you do? Will you participate with this fatherless generation, or will you become a father to the fatherless? You've got to grow up." 

 

Probably one of the most loving things I ever experienced. So we went to the hospital, and it was probably just a few months later. And I choose my words very carefully. When my son was born, when our son was born, I gave him my name, Robert, because I don't want him to ever question a day in his life whose boy he is. He's my son, and he belongs. His middle name is Theodore, which means divine gift, because he's not an accident. He's not a mistake. He's not the result of a sexual affair. But just like my other three children, born out of the heart of God and entrusted to us, we're a family. [00:31:52] 

 

Laura Dugger: Yeah. Wow. That is incredible. Thank you so much. Both of you just bringing us into that to see what that experience was like. You've mentioned God throughout the entire process, but He had even more in store for the two of you. 

 

And, Audrey, Satan was whispering to you that this would ruin your plans forever and you couldn't do ministry and yet He's used this. So can you share what has come since that point in both of your lives?

 

Audrey Meisner: Yeah. It was a process. You know, we can't shortcut a healing process. We never dreamed in a million years that we would ever start sharing our story. The process of healing changed. And once Robert was born, there was a shift in our home where it was just sort of like this closure, like this new reality, new normal.

 

Bob Meisner: Because what was concealed is now revealed. Here he is. So as a family, we just began to grow with each other. [00:32:51] 

 

Audrey Meisner: And it was just amazing to me how the kids to this day have embraced Robert. Like there is no difference other than he's a lot younger and maybe a little bit darker. But I mean, my goodness, like we are a family with four kids.

 

But how this is what happened is a couple years later, we were asked to share this story. And I was like, "Whoa, like I don't want..." Like that was-

 

Bob Meisner: That was terrifying.

 

Audrey Meisner: That was terrifying for sure.

 

Bob Meisner: I do want to say this. After a couple of years, it was almost as though we were right back into ministry. We were right back to where we were previous. And yet it was like this isn't what we want. And it's almost as though we're back into this tandem lifestyle again. And it's like we are missing the benefit of our union of oneness. There's a place where you kind of modify behavior. You weather the storm but-

 

Audrey Meisner: But we started to slip. We started to slip back in the same rut of being busy and getting into that. [00:33:54] 

 

Bob Meisner: That routine and busyness. 

 

Audrey Meisner: But then something in us we just knew wasn't okay. I went through an experience where after two years, Bob was really in a depression because I think he could just feel that we haven't really dealt with this in a way.

 

Bob Meisner: And I'm trying to be okay. 

 

Audrey Meisner: He's trying to be okay.

 

Bob Meisner: I'm managing my anger. You see, I'm managing the images and the thoughts that I have. But again, it was challenging.

 

Audrey Meisner: It was. I remember one day when I just had done everything I could to fix him and be better and perform and be the most amazing wife ever. But I remember when God whispered into my heart and He said, "You know what, Audrey, changing Bob isn't your job. The most irresistible thing that you can do for your husband is stop trying to change him or fix him or heal him or make him better." 

 

There was a day I remember when I just released Bob and said, "God, I trust you with him." And something transformed in my heart. And it was just a couple of years later when we went through a very deep moment where I saw myself as Jesus saw me so righteous and clean. [00:35:00] I don't have to prove myself anymore. 

 

Then later that same weekend, Bob had a moment where he absolutely chose to rescue me rather than judge me. And those experiences turned into something very transformational in our hearts. And now we started to feel the strength of the story rather than the fear of our story or the sadness in our story. We started to feel God restoring us and redeeming this.

 

There became this presence of God that would come. And when we first told our story, marriages started to say, Wow, if you can do that, then we can work through our stuff. And we began growing in our understanding of what the contributing factors were that brought us to that point.

 

We started dealing with unresolved conflict that had been there right from the very beginning that we didn't have the skills to navigate. And it turned into writing books and a marriage ministry and, you know, our children growing up together and seeing true... [00:36:06] 

 

There's no performance or fakeness in the life that we have where our kids. Yeah, we're not perfect but there is just this atmosphere of love in our house. We've actually named our house the House of Mercy, where we don't want our kids running away from home when they mess up. We want our kids running to home because this is our house of mercy. And we do real life together.

 

Laura Dugger: Amen to all of that, especially that none of us are perfect. 

 

Hey, friends, we appreciate you so much. Over 100 of you have left a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, and you have no idea how much that helps The Savvy Sauce podcast. 

 

Basically, the more ratings and reviews we have, the more Apple Podcasts shares our podcast to help others easily discover it. Also, when we gain more listeners, high quality guests are more likely to agree to come on for future interviews and sponsors are willing to fund our work so we can continue sharing this practical and biblical teaching through these conversations. [00:37:12] 

 

You are a critical part of this process. So thank you for generously giving your time to give us a five-star rating and review. 

 

We certainly can all learn from our own and even others' mistakes. What do you think is the biggest lesson that God taught each of you about your part in your marriage not going the way you had originally envisioned?

 

Audrey Meisner: Well, you asked both of us, so I'll go first. Basically, one of the biggest lessons I learned was that I had never understood or had the skill to navigate disappointment. Early on in our marriage, I had felt disappointed with Bob, but I never learned how to voice that, how to express it, how to be honest about it.

 

So when I would try to voice a disappointment, it would turn into a conflict where I would feel attacked and I would shut down. And that became a pattern in our life where disappointment turned into unresolved conflict, which turned into despair. And it resulted in not having an honest and real relationship in a deep kind of a way. [00:38:17] And I can see now that that affected me right from the beginning.

 

Bob Meisner: There are definitely foundational things that are in there. And boy, what a question, Laura. Just one? Are you kidding me? 

 

Audrey Meisner: Yeah. What is the biggest lesson? I just gave you a big lesson. There's like a million of them. I just chose one. You know what I mean?

 

Bob Meisner: When people begin to get help or they're recognizing they're having a breakdown in their relationship, usually it goes to a place of communication. For us, I felt like we communicated, but we really didn't. What we found is that... you know, typically in psychology, you have the passive, the aggressive, passive-aggressive, and the assertive. I throw in a fifth one. And that fifth one is the Jesus model.

 

Audrey Meisner: Yeah. I love Jesus model.

 

Bob Meisner: And Jesus teaches in communication to speak the truth in love. [00:39:18] 

 

Audrey Meisner: Yes.

 

Bob Meisner: And what we found in our relationship is that I had no problem speaking truth.

 

Audrey Meisner: Came natural to you.

 

Bob Meisner: But bringing it in a loving way, wow, did that ever have to change? And then for Audrey-

 

Audrey Meisner: Yeah, for me, I was really going to be loving and sweet and nice and kind. But I just held back truth of how I was really feeling or truth about how I was... you know, in the deepest part of me, I just hid that and thought, Oh, I can just choose what I'll tell Bob. If it's going to cause a conflict, then I'll just not say it. So I was really good at speaking love, 100 percent love, but my truth wasn't as strong. I have realized since then Bob feels most loved when I'm truthful.

 

Bob Meisner: So that was one of them. The other is that I wanted to blame her and the circumstances and I wanted that to give me permission to be angry, to be distant, to withhold, to be unloving. [00:40:18] Why? Because it's your fault. And then we shift blame. And you might think, well, yeah, of course. And it's like, No, I can't change anyone but I can take personal responsibility for me. So I had to learn what is it to be a husband, to be a father. I am so thankful that I'm not the person I used to be-

 

Audrey Meisner: Me too. I mean, I meant to vote me, Bob. I did not mean that about you. But I am, to be honest.

 

Bob Meisner: Thank God for fixing my husband.

 

Audrey Meisner: No, no, no. I'm glad that I'm not the person I used to be too. But we're both on it. I have to admit. I am glad you're not the person you used to be. Because you're much nicer now. You're a lot kinder. We've both taken serious personal responsibility for how we have over, in our personality and in our behavior styles, when you overuse your strengths, they become your weakness.

 

Bob Meisner: You know, one of the things people look for is why. You know, you drill it into the other person. Why did you do this? Why did you say that? And it's always linked to a judgment. And what you want to do is you want to hang blame somewhere. There isn't one logical explanation that would ever make it okay.

 

Audrey Meisner: Would you make it feel better? It's never going to feel okay. No.

 

Bob Meisner: No. It was wrong. It never should have happened, but it did. So where do we go to from here? [00:41:46] 

 

Laura Dugger: It sounds like you just resisted that victim mentality and chose the remedy, like you're saying, of just- 

 

Bob Meisner: I was a good victim, Laura. I was. Because it's easy. Because then people would come and say to me, "Hey, Bob, why are you so sad? Why do I sense this sadness about you?" And it's just like, "Oh, here, you don't know my story. Let me tell you my story." And then all of a sudden, they're just like, "Oh, I get it."  You see? 

 

I always relate that to blind Bartimaeus, where he goes to Jesus, but before he goes to meet Him, it says that he removed His garment and He went to Jesus, and Jesus asked Him this question. He says, "Bartimaeus, what do you want?" He says, "I want to see." And better phrased this way, what are you willing for me to do for you? [00:42:46] 

 

And Bartimaeus is like, "Lord, I want to regain sight." But him removing his garment is very important because that garment that he wore identified him as a legitimate blind man worthy of receiving alms. You see, I could have worn a garment the rest of my life and I could say, yeah, I'm this way because of, and now I live circumstantially, you know, because of this and then I blame and on and on. But it was just like, I'm going to leave that garment behind. Jesus, open my eyes. I need your perspective. I don't see right. I'm blind. I'm angry. You see, I'm resentful. Jesus, I need to see what you see. And that was a huge transformational journey for me.

 

Laura Dugger: Wow. And on this unexpected journey, is there anything else that either of you have discovered that you'd like to share with either a single or a married couple that's listening right now? [00:43:49]

 

Audrey Meisner: Yeah. Probably that your spouse... like no one's responsible to make you happy. No one can be your source, but Jesus. For me, when I was in that place of quiet desperation, I needed Jesus, but I needed to get honest with Him to create a space where you really experience Jesus. You don't just know about Him and you don't just pray to Him using nice language, but you actually, you know, experiences love and you can go to your secret place. 

 

But as you're there in that place, as you close your eyes, just say, Jesus, I need you and you are my source. And then whenever I try and expect Bob to be my source for anything, it can result in disappointment. It's never fair to see someone as your source. Bob is my number one contributor, but he is not my source. 

 

So for a single person, you know what? You need Jesus. Jesus is your source for absolutely everything. As a married person, he's your source. That's how we're protected from becoming users in relationships. [00:44:51] We want to love because we are so loved. You know, like experience God's love so that you can love others.

 

Bob Meisner: Something I'd like to bring out is that in fear... fear will always create worst-case scenario.

 

Audrey Meisner: Right.

 

Bob Meisner: And fear will always control. So you'll either be controlling to others or that emotion will want to drive your life. I remember when I had the first thought and it was like my first panic attack. The first time I had ever had the thought, what do I do if she's pregnant? And I remember where I was walking with Audrey and my pastor and I'm like, "I'm going to drop this bombshell of a question. I mean, it's going to stump him because I don't know what to do." So I asked him and I just said, "Leo, what do I do if she's pregnant?" Because for me, I'm thinking this is a game changer. There is no marriage after this. 

 

But before I could even finish asking the question, he immediately responded, "Bob, His grace will be more than enough for you." [00:45:56] I tell you, Laura, I remember it was... I clenched my fist and it's just like, dude, I'll take you out right now. No, really. I was just like, don't give me this religious cliché. This is my life that we're talking about. I mean, this is that inner war that happens in nanoseconds. 

 

But immediately the Holy Spirit spoke to my heart and said, "Bob, this man knows something about my nature and character you know nothing about. My grace is more than enough for you." And that began my journey to His throne room, you see, for His enablement, His empowerment for my life, for His realities to become mine. That began my journey because I recognized how deficient I was in love. And He is love.

 

Laura Dugger: That is just incredible to hear you both even just sum it up that way. And clearly, you are such a wise and encouraging couple. [00:46:59] 

 

Audrey Meisner: Aw, I love it. That is our heart. We sure want to love people, that's for sure.

 

Bob Meisner: I know there's people that listen. And it's not that your marriage has to be on the rocks for this to be applicable. But you get to know the God who designed you, who has dreamed you up. And no matter where you are, I can say with absolute confidence in Jesus, your best days really are ahead of you.

 

Audrey Meisner: And your Redeemer lives because I didn't think there was a redemption to this story. But I think of the people who have had an abortion that are listening and it hurts. I think of the people who have had a divorce that are listening and saying, we didn't know this when I got a divorce. And I didn't know what kind of painful road I was going to go on and stuff. 

 

And I just want to say to those people, whatever has happened, yes, those are the facts of life, but even you get to draw a line in the sand today and just choose and decide to shout it from the housetops that your Redeemer lives. [00:48:02] I speak it right to your heart. Your Redeemer lives, you guys. I know you don't see the happy ending to the story, but there's not... And maybe your story didn't end like ours, but there is redemption and there is future. There is hope just because Jesus is so creative. He can innovate a new plan and a new idea for your life that you could never have imagined.

 

Laura Dugger: Yes, and amen. Where can listeners go to gain even more encouragement from both of you?

 

Audrey Meisner: Our website is lovemarriedlife.com. I love that we have some free eBooks there because they're kind of some of our favorite subjects. Like My Personality Goals talks about how in our personal behavior... Bob and I are so different. Like Bob loves to do things right and I love to do things fast. So we're very different in our approach to everything. 

 

Bob Meisner: But yet when we got married, we thought we were identical.

 

Audrey Meisner: Yeah, right. So we've really developed free eBook called My Personality Goals. [00:49:04] We have developed just helping people understand that when you overuse your strength, that's when they become your blind spots. But when you can understand your spouse, it just brings a lot of help.

 

So My Personality Goals, that's for singles or married. And My Communication Goals, those two free eBooks, I encourage people to download those. And then listen to our podcast called All About Relationships. 

 

Also, a lot of couples come for deep, intense, where they come to our house in Phoenix for three days and we do an intensive. They stay at a hotel, but we spend eight hours a day and we do a three-day intensive with couples. 

 

This has been my favorite part of ministry because we see couples... they might be some couples just to come to learn how to minister to others. But in three days to invest eight hours a day to get to the deep-rooted destructive cycles that keep you going around and around and around the same laps. We get to help you break those. [00:49:58] And that's probably one of my favorite things about what we do.

 

Laura Dugger: Well, and I always like to remind listeners, if this is your first time with us, we will always link to all of these resources. 

 

Audrey Meisner: Oh, thank you, Laura. 

 

Laura Dugger: Yes. We want to make it very easy for you to find Bob and Audrey. And you know that we're called The Savvy Sauce-

 

Audrey Meisner: Yes! I love it. So "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or discernment. And so as my final question for each of you today, what is your savvy sauce?

 

Audrey Meisner: Oh, I love this question. I think our savvy sauce together is that we are so different and we refuse to see each other as our problem. But I see Bob as my gift. And then we can sing a song together when we are in harmony.

 

Bob Meisner: Behavioral modification, it will only take you so far. We really work towards a heart transformation. Because it's from the heart that emerges all the boundaries of our life. [00:51:00] In other words, every sense of limitation that we experience, it really does flow from the heart.

 

And we can spend an entire lifetime focusing on the problems or the limitations that we perceive that are outside of our influence. But in reality, these limitations are based on what I believe about myself in my heart to be true, whether that be good or bad. 

 

Proverbs 4:23 says, "Guard your heart above all else." And so I want to live transformed. It's a great feeling to live clean, you know, tailor your behavior. You know, boy, am I ever being good. It gets to be exhausting. When people oftentimes read a book, attend a marriage seminar, it's like they walk away with another 10 things to do, another list. It only works as long as you're working the list. I want to live free.

 

Audrey Meisner: Is that your savvy sauce, Bob? [00:52:01] 

 

Bob Meisner: Different than living clean. I want to live free. And that's where we experience effortless victory through a transformed heart.

 

Audrey Meisner: Because life becomes easy and fun. We believe that marriage is fun.

 

Bob Meisner: Yeah, fun.

 

Audrey Meisner: There is our savvy sauce.

 

Bob Meisner: Some people think it's hard. No, no, it's intentional.

 

Audrey Meisner: I get that.

 

Bob Meisner: But boy, it is fun.

 

Audrey Meisner: So in a word, our savvy sauce is marriage is fun.

 

Bob Meisner: Okay.

 

Laura Dugger: That's so good. Well, Bob and Audrey, your story just does not cease to amaze me because it does point to a loving and patient and gracious Heavenly Father who is in the ministry of reconciliation. So thank you for sharing your story with all of us today.

 

Bob Meisner: Thank you.

 

Audrey Meisner: Thank you for just finding us and for loving us and inviting us. We feel really loved by you. Thank you, Laura.

 

Bob Meisner: Thank you.

 

Audrey Meisner: We thank you for all your amazing listeners.

 

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. [00:53:00] Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

 

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

 

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:54:02] 

 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. 

 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. 

 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:55:04] 

 

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. 

 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. 

 

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [00:56:00] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.