111 Building Love Together in Blended Families with Ron Deal

111. Building Love Together in Blended Families with Ron Deal

 

**Transcription Below**

 

1 Corinthians 13:8a (NIV) "Love never fails."

 

Ron Deal is President of Smart Stepfamilies™ and Director of FamilyLife Blended® for FamilyLife®. He is a family ministry consultant and conducts marriage and family seminars around the country; he specializes in marriage education and stepfamily enrichment.

 

Ron Deal’s Website for Blended Families

Connect with Ron Deal on Social Media @familylifeblended 

 

At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. 

 

Building Love Together in Blended Families by Dr. Gary Chapman and Ron L Deal

Smart Stepfamily by Ron Deal

The Smart Stepfamily Marriage by Ron Deal, David H. Olson, and Evelyn Thompson (Foreword)

The Smart Stepfamily Guide to Financial Planning by Ron Deal, Greg S. Pettys, and David. O. Edwards

The Smart Stepdad by Ron Deal

The Smart Stepmom by Ron Deal and Laura Petherbridge (Contributor)

 

Other Savvy Sauce Episode Mentioned:

 

Episode 85: 5 Love Languages with Dr. Gary Chapman

 

Thank You to Our Sponsors: Leman Property Management Company and Fae & Monroe

 

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

 

[00:00:18] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Fae & Monroe makes hand-stamped jewelry and accessories, and it's located right here in central Illinois. They provide delicate, personal, everyday necklaces, as well as keychains and accessories. Check them out at FayAndMonroe.com.

 

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Although this is an episode designed to specifically address unique challenges that arise for anyone marrying again after divorce or death of a spouse, I still believe we can all learn from this wisdom of strengthening relationships. 

 

Ron Deal is our guest, and he is a relationship expert. He's a marriage and family therapist, best-selling author, podcaster, and popular conference speaker. [00:01:22] He's also the president of Smart Stepfamilies.

 

Today we're going to cover concepts from a recent book of his, which he wrote with Dr. Gary Chapman, one of our previous guests from Episode 85. This book is titled Building Love Together in Blended Families, and I can't wait for all of us to listen in on his practical instruction for ways that we can strengthen our marital relationship and parenting.

 

Here's our chat. 

 

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Ron.

 

Ron Deal: Well, thank you. It's an honor to be with you.

 

Laura Dugger: Will you just get us started by telling us a bit about yourself and how you originally developed a passion for this line of work?

 

Ron Deal: Yeah. I'm a Midwestern kid born and raised in Des Moines, Iowa. I met my now-wife in seventh grade. I can still see her standing at the end of the hallway at her locker. We eventually got to know each other and fell in love by the time we were ending our senior year and went off to college, got married, decided we wanted to go into ministry. [00:02:29] 

 

My first job I was a youth minister working with kids. And boy, did I figure out fast, Laura, that I didn't know enough about the family or the family system to really be as helpful to them as I wanted to be.

 

So like you, I went back to graduate school and I got a degree in Marriage and Family Therapy. At that point, I really wanted to help kids, but I also wanted to help their families. I knew the family system is where children grew up. The climate had everything to do with their well-being. 

 

So I went into family ministry doing some counseling, but spending a lot of my time on prevention, enrichment, doing marriage enrichment, parent training, working with single-parent families, and decided we needed to work with blended families because as a clinician, I knew I'd had quite a bit of experience working with stepfamilies. But in ministry, not many people were paying any attention to that.

 

So this is back in the early 1990s when I started doing what's now stepfamily ministry, my full-time job. [00:03:29] And little did I know hardly anybody was trying to do something to help blended families within a Christian community or Christian context. So I found myself kind of trying to figure it out and talking to anybody I could find that was interested in the subject. Long story short, it eventually became my life.

 

We've now written eight books and have a ninth on the way and half a dozen resources. I work with a large international ministry called FamilyLife. We're in over 100 countries around the world, but we have a huge footprint here in the United States. Thousands of people come to our marriage conference every year. 

 

And now we started what we call FamilyLife Blended, which is my Smart Stepfamily material plus the FamilyLife material. So we do events and online training and resources, video curriculum, books, small group studies, all kinds of things for stepfamilies around the world at this point. [00:04:30] 

 

Laura Dugger: Well, it's really incredible to get to witness your work, Ron. This is something I haven't told you yet, that I've actually followed your work for years. My mom is the one I credit with introducing me to podcasts. But even before that, it was radio programs. And so this may have been in the 90s or early 2000s. It was a while back that I remember hearing you first speak and really be the leader of a Christian view of grace with stepfamilies. So thank you for your work.

 

Ron Deal: Well, I appreciate that very much.

 

Laura Dugger: And now just from a broader context, what do you see as one of the most overlooked and underestimated needs of any relationship?

 

Ron Deal: For a long time, the Christian community and marriage educators, even people from a non-faith perspective, inadvertently gave the message that it's my job to make my wife happy. Now, I firmly believe that it's my job to die to myself, to love my wife well, and care for her in whatever ways that I can. [00:05:37] 

 

But sometimes the way we would teach it, we kind of suggested to people that if your wife's not happy, then it's your fault. Or if your husband's not happy, then it's your fault as the wife. All of a sudden, you know, it's kind of like we've relieved people of their own responsibility for their own personhood and well-being, their identity, their walk with God as a factor in who they are in their marriage and their family and their parenting. 

 

And I think that's making a comeback, and it should make a comeback, that there's a balance to be found here. That each of us is accountable and responsible for who we are, and we bring our best selves to our marriage. 

 

And striving to be my best self is a part of growing up. It's a part of growing up in Christ, growing up as a person, becoming mature. That's something we're called to do and invited to do, I think, in our walk with God. So bridging that into the marriage and family space is something that I think has been overlooked for some time. [00:06:41] 

 

Laura Dugger: That's such an important point about that personal responsibility piece, and just resisting more of that victim mentality, which really doesn't serve anyone. But now as we consider blended families specifically, how does your relationship with God and your learning from the Bible, how does all of that influence your beliefs about coming alongside stepfamilies?

 

Ron Deal: There's an interesting thing that happens. In our effort to follow God well and honor Him, we have, I think rightfully so within the Christian community, placed a big emphasis on remaining faithful in our marriages. We talk about covenant relationships and responsibilities and decisions that we make to be committed to a spouse, and we need to honor that. And divorce is not a part of keeping promises, right? So we want to discourage the breaking of promises and encourage the keeping of promises, and rightfully so. [00:07:43] 

 

I think, unfortunately, in our effort to do that, we've kind of talked down to people who did experience divorce. We use words like broken family as if to imply that somehow people living in an intact family are not broken. Well, that's not true. We're all broken. We're all in need of redemption. 

 

And so we inadvertently marginalize people who have been through hardship and difficulty, whether they made a choice that led to the divorce or they didn't. Whatever the story is, God still loves and forgives and redeems and blesses people who have had a breakup of a marriage.

 

People in blended families then are remarried, and there's this other theological concept about remarriage. In our effort to try to handle the Scriptures well, sometimes I think we have, again, inadvertently taught a meta-message that suggested that somehow divorce is bad, remarriage is also bad. If you're divorced and remarried, you don't belong at church. [00:08:45] And that is so not right. That is so not the intent or the heart behind the Scriptures. 

 

And so we have to deal with that now. We have to talk about blended family living in theological ways and also in practical ways to invite church leaders to say, yeah, you know what? The church is all about redemption. It's a hospital. It's not a place for healthy people. It's a place where people go when they need help. That's who we are. That's what we do. We do that day in and day out. Why is this any different? It's really not. 

 

I guess I would say early on when I started doing this, I felt like I had to fight those theological battles and not so much anymore. Thankfully, that's gotten a lot easier. The conversation is more about practically how do we help and encourage people in blended families.

 

Laura Dugger: Wow. Will you take us back? Do you think you can pinpoint any turning points or was there any specific Scripture that helped people understand theologically what is now what you're saying a little bit more understood? [00:09:46] 

 

Ron Deal: Yeah, I think it's just simply stepping back from the Scriptures and saying, yes, we want to encourage people to honor their promises and their commitments. But then let's also notice that the whole of Scripture is a narrative about God pursuing us in our imperfections and providing redemption and grace ultimately through Jesus Christ. 

 

If you look at that and you go, Okay, let's just look at the families of the Bible. How messed up were they? Abraham and his family. Abraham and Sarah promised a child. The whole world is going to be blessed through their child. Only she's not getting pregnant. So she has this brilliant idea.

 

Now, Laura, I just got to ask you, how many times have you suggested to women, look, if you can't get pregnant, just give your husband a maidservant. Let her become wife number two. It'll all work out fine. That's not advice that we get. But that's how the family of promise started. Jesus is a descendant of that.

 

Then it gets worse, right? [00:10:47] The story of Joseph and his brother selling him into slavery is not about simple sibling jealousy. It's a narrative of a favored child who was born by the favored wife to a man who had three other wives and a whole lot of children, half-brothers, half-sisters, stepchildren to stepmothers, and there's only one favored child in the bunch.

 

It's a story of stepfamily dysfunction and jealousy. This is not a new narrative. God has always worked with imperfect people to bring about his perfect causes and purposes. And that's what He does, is restore and redeem. 

 

Our faithfulness doesn't fix every decision we've ever made in our past, but it ascribes righteousness to us in spite of that past. And by the way, Jesus had a stepdad. I'm pretty sure that's true. Best story of the whole thing is there's this woman that Jesus meets in John chapter four, a woman at the well. She has a very sordid past. She's been married five times. [00:11:46] She's now living with a guy because she's given up on marriage and love in general. We don't know if she's divorced five times. We don't know if she was widowed five times.

 

But the story narrative implies there was a lot of shame going on within her. That's why she's isolated and alone from the community of people and at the well all by herself. She's probably been divorced at least once, if not multiple times.

 

And what does Jesus do? Well, he loves her. He talks to her like a person as she is. He actually uses her story of thirst and trying to find love as a way of helping her open her heart to the truthfulness of God's grace and mercy for her. In the end of the story, she drinks living water, she sees and understands that she's embraced by God.

 

This woman who was at the beginning of the story embarrassed about her past is now at the end of the story using her story to invite other people to come and meet Jesus. That's my story too. That's your story. That's everybody who's listening story. [00:12:48] 

 

It doesn't matter whether you've been divorced or remarried or whatever that narrative is. God loves, forgives, invites, encourages, blesses. Says, Come walk with Me. Just drink some water and let's go. I think that message makes a lot of sense to people. And there's just so much hope in it. That's the narrative we tell in the ministry that I run.

 

Laura Dugger: That is such a powerful picture of what Scripture presents theologically for this topic. And I know you said you also focus a lot on the practical side. So even currently with what you're hearing from these blended families, what are some of the most helpful practical implications you recommended?

 

Ron Deal: Let's just start at a high level. And let me just say driving a stepfamily, if I could say it that way, is different than driving a biological first family. Quick illustration. If you know how to drive a car, which a lot of people do, and I said, all right, then you know how to drive a motorcycle. [00:13:52] You'd say, Oh, well, I don't know. I mean, I kind of know how to ride a bike, but I'm not sure I know how to ride a motorcycle. Isn't that different? How do you handle corners? How do you handle speed? How do you change lanes? How do you make sure defensive driving other cars can see you? 

 

Yeah, there's a whole lot of things that are different and unique about navigating a motorcycle than driving a car. But they're both vehicles. They both have engines. They both need maintenance. They both have certain laws and things that go along with the boundaries and how you use them well, etc., etc..

 

Same thing's true. Blended families are families. They have relationships. They have guidelines and healthy and unhealthy. They're a vehicle, just like a first family is a vehicle. But you do drive the blended family differently. 

 

There are dynamics that are different. There are defensive postures that you need to have. There are qualities and attributes that are unique, and there are struggles that are unique. [00:14:51] So we help people understand those struggles. 

 

It's a little bit like if you have a special needs child. There's some unique things around that. If you have a child who's educationally challenged, there's some unique ways you need to try to learn to help that child learn so that they can manage adulthood. 

 

It's not unlike many things in life. But when people go into the blended life experience thinking they're driving a car, well, they corner way too fast. And, boy, they're not watching out for other traffic like they need to be. They can get sideswiped or rear-ended or tip over pretty quickly. 

 

Imagine a car with eight people in it. You can imagine that pretty easily. Imagine a motorcycle with eight people on it. Oh, wow, we just got complicated. How do we balance? How do we work together? Right. That's what we do is we help people understand driving this vehicle and what it takes to stay on the road and get to where you want to go. [00:15:50] 

 

Laura Dugger: Well, and let's just take that a step further then and talk about a few things that are specific to blended families. Could you just explain the attachment triangles that are apparent?

 

Ron Deal: Yeah. So this is a key concept, and it's a little hard to explain. But let me just give you a typical scenario. One of the things that's very true about driving this vehicle called the blended family is that parenting and marriage stuff is deeply intertwined. Now, that's also true in first families where a couple is raising their biological children. But in blended families, this can get tripped up all too easily, and it can have devastating impact. 

 

So, for example, imagine a conversation where a stepmother, for example, comes to her husband and says, Hey, Johnny's not getting out of bed in the morning. It's making everybody late. Could you help me get him going? And the dad says, "Well, I don't know. That's not a big deal. I think he's doing fine. Let's not worry about it." And the stepmother is feeling, "Oh, I'm unheard. I'm powerless. And you just defended your son over me. [00:16:52] It feels like you've chosen him over me. That feels like I'm unimportant to you." 

 

So what started as a parenting question quickly became some sort of a statement about the importance of marriage. The stepmom in this scenario is kind of an outsider to the parenting process between her husband and his son. Like when she comes on the scene in the beginning, she's very much outside that. Her husband and son have a history and routines and rituals and ways of doing things, and they understand each other.

 

And his parenting of the past as a single dad and even before he was a widow or his first divorce, all of that plays into what the child expects. But now the stepmother, an outsider to all of that, is coming in saying, "Hey, help me get him out of bed." So she is stuck as an outsider is the way we would say that.

 

She comes in as an outsider, and she tried to do something to be a part of the parenting team, only her husband said no. [00:17:51] And now she's really an outsider. So powerless and helpless and frustrated. She has to deal with the fallout of him not being ready to go in the morning, all of that. 

 

So it's parenting and marriage all at the same time. I like to say in blended families, there's a dangerous intersection where you're riding this vehicle, this motorcycle, and at the intersection of Parenting Street and Marriage Avenue, there's a whole lot of collisions. 

 

And you have to navigate it really carefully because ultimately it pulls on the couple's relationship. It ultimately makes them feel like they are not together, they are not one, that they are different and separate. And when that happens, it doesn't matter how motivated anybody else might be, the family falls apart. There is a reason the divorce rate is higher in blended families than it is in first families. And it's this intersection. 

 

But here's another triangle that is a key one. And this one has sort of indirect connection with the children. [00:18:52] It can be about a former spouse. Imagine a former spouse, an ex-husband, who picks up the phone and calls his ex-wife, who is now married to a new guy. This former husband is just really difficult to get along with. He's not a great parent. He's unreliable and inconsistent. And he's just belligerent and bitter and angry over the divorce and whatever.

 

And so he can create all kinds of havoc in his former wife's new marriage, in their parenting, in the new stepdad who's going, Look, he may be a wonderful stepdad, a very high-character person. But if the biological dad is telling the kids, "I'm your dad, he's not, don't listen to him, listen to me," well, then stepdad is just going to have a really rough go. And it has nothing to do with him. It has very little to do with his wife or their marriage. It has everything to do with somebody who does not live in their home.

 

So here's the big reality. Blended families are tall and wide, I like to say. In this new book that I wrote with Gary Chapman, Building Love Together in Blended Families, we say they're tall and wide. [00:19:55] Tall because they're multigenerational, there's lots of generations that are being affected by the step relationships, and they're wide in the sense that there's often at least two homes, if not three or four homes. And it's just difficult. It is so very difficult to navigate all of those pieces. 

 

In other words, here's another way of saying it. To this woman who marries a great guy, what they both have to accept is that her ex-husband is still a part of their marriage. He is still a part of their family. His parenting matters. Who he is as a person matters. His finances matter. His schedule matters. His morality matters. He is a part of your family. 

 

That's a hard reality for a lot of people. They think, "Well, I divorced him. That's over with." If you share children, it's never over with. Learning how to navigate that terrain, deal with former spouses in light of what happens in your home is just one of those complex pieces that helps you learn how to ride and drive this motorcycle. [00:20:59] 

 

Laura Dugger: Ron, if I'm hearing correctly, too, it does sound like one of the most common issues with a new blended family would be if they are also parents. You would say that's where a lot of the friction comes. Is that right?

 

Ron Deal: I would say the presence of children from any previous relationship is just a multiplier of complexity. So this leaves a co-parenting issue. You and your former spouse, how do you raising those children together? It's a parent, step-parent in your home, the new marriage matter. 

 

And then there's children dealing with losses and sadness from the past and loyalty issues. We might call that a loyalty conflict or a love conflict. I love my dad, I love my stepdad, I have a problem. I don't know how to make space for both of those people at the same time in my heart. 

 

That is a very common kid issue. It's something they have to work through. And only when they find peace with that can they openly give themselves into a loving relationship with their step-parent. [00:22:02] 99% of the time, they will side with a biological parent, even if that bio-parent is not a nice person. The step-parent gets the lesser end of that deal just because of their loyalty or love for their biological parent. So, again, lots of things dealing with children, adults, dynamics, parenting, and marriage.

 

Laura Dugger: I just appreciate your work because it is so relevant today. If we look at the numbers, just in American culture, I believe it's nearly half the couples who have a step-parent or step-child connected to their relationship. 

 

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Laura Dugger: What are a few blended family principles for loving well?

 

Ron Deal: So in this book, Building Love Together in Blended Families, one of the things I do is summarize all the other work. And this is hard to do. But like I said, I've written multiple books, like The Smart Stepfamily, which is a best-selling book. And we just summarize some of those principles in this new one and just said, for example, blended families are not born with a sense of familiness.

 

By the way, I like making up words. I hope that's okay with you. Familiness is different than coupleness. But blended families are not born with a sense of familiness. [00:25:09] Your journey nurtures it. 

 

So when you get married and form a blended family, you bring definition to one relationship, your couple relationship, coupleness. You bring definition because you announce to the world, we're married now. There's legal implications for that. There's practical implications for that. There's sexual implications for that. There's expectations in terms of fidelity in this relationship. 

 

And the whole world says, yay, happy, glad for you guys. You're married, husband and wife. That is clear. What is unclear is how you're going to be a family. Because children are saying, Okay, now I've got a step-parent and three step-siblings. What do I do with them? Where do I put them in my heart? How do I make space for that? I have time and energy for this person. How about for that person? I love my mom. I sort of like my stepdad. I really love my dad. That's the familiness stuff kids are working on. 

 

The other familiness thing that's really key is parenting and step-parenting. How are we going to be a team? You and I parent differently. [00:26:09] Maybe both adults are bringing kids into the equation. We parent differently. 

 

Maybe the children are adults. And, Laura, this is very important because this is a big assumption a lot of people make. Empty nest parents who get married later in life just assume because their children are adults that they're not going to have any problem with it. That is not true at all. Kids 35 years of age have the same adjustments as kids 15 years of age or 5 years of age. 

 

They have to now redefine their whole family, their identity within the family, their relationship with their parent who got married. They have to figure all this out too. And now there's grandkids involved in the picture. All of that to say, familiness is a journey that generally takes anywhere from five to seven years to figure out.

 

Coupledness came on the day you got married in the sense that everybody around you and within your relationship, you knew who you were, husband and wife. Everybody else, it takes them five to seven years to figure it out. That is a deep surprise to a lot of people and they get caught off guard by that. [00:27:10] 

 

And here's the way that looks in real life. The kids loved this future step-parent. They got along fine. They had some activities. Everything seemed to be rolling forward. The wedding comes and now somebody's like, "Hey, yeah, no, I don't want you telling me to pick up my socks. No. It was kind of fine when you were dating my mom, but now you're in my bedroom telling me to pick up my socks. You are not my dad." That's real life. And that relationship and defining, bringing definition to that relationship takes time. 

 

So we help people pause. We help people be patient. We help them understand what to do in the meantime. How do you get to that definition? And that's part of what this book really does. 

 

I think the real positive thing that Building Love Together in Blended Families does that my other materials don't is that it really talks about utilizing the five love languages, for example, to help bonding in a family, to help you bring definition to your familiness. [00:28:10] I think there's some very practical things in this book that help with that.

 

Laura Dugger: I would echo that. I think in your book it does lay out just something that you can grab onto so quickly and just a great resource where they can turn to that and get some ideas and see how it applies. 

 

As we transition to thinking about the blended family couple, I think it's always helpful to hear stories or practical tips. So in a blended family, how can a couple grow in their marriage?

 

Ron Deal: Well, you know, one of the things you got to do is work hard to protect your marriage because of that intersection of Parenting Street and Marriage Avenue and there's a lot of collisions. You work really hard to honor one another. So it's simple things, but they have profound impact. 

 

For example, a biological parent who was a single parent, perhaps for a few years before getting married again, they are so used to making all the decisions quickly, decisively. [00:29:14] The kids know what you're going to say before you say it. For you to pause and make space for the step-parent is helpful to say to your kids, "Hey, look, hold on. I'll get back to you on that. I'm going to go talk to my spouse."

 

And they say, "Well, why dad? You never had to ask anybody before. Why do you have to ask her?" "Well, she's my wife now. And that matters. Turns out that that's a big deal. You know, she's going to be my partner for the rest of our life and so I want to include her in this." 

 

Now, you've just made a huge statement to your children. Marriage matters. I'm committed. It's redefining who I am in relation to you and we all have to make these adjustments. And it elevates the status of the step-parent into the parenting system. And it gives her some power she didn't have any other way. And the kids get the message they have to respect the stepmom because dad respects her. That's massive, Laura. That's huge. 

 

Consider the alternative of somebody who doesn't include the step-parent, doesn't find a way to bring them into the parenting and the kids don't respect. [00:30:21] I work with a guy who told me, "Yeah, I had a great stepdad came into my life when I was about five. I called him dad pretty quickly." And I was like, "Hey, that sounds wonderful." 

 

And then he gave me whiplash and he said, "But I never respected him." And I said, "Wow, why not? I mean, you liked him. You got along. You even called him dad." He goes, "Yeah, but mom told us after she got married kids, if anything ever goes wrong between you and my husband, don't worry about it. I'll protect you. We'll just leave." 

 

And it was like, Okay, so mom doesn't respect him and you don't have to respect him. The message came through loud and clear. And even as a five-year-old, he understood, I don't have to respect this guy. So it put huge limitations on their relationship. That sort of stuff really matters. 

 

We tell the story in the book. Pretty complex story. So I'll go into all the details, but it's a very practical one about a single mom who, during the single mom years, her love language is quality time and her kids' love language was quality time. [00:31:21] 

 

So guess what they did every night before bed? They laid in bed and they had quality time. They talked about the day. As she reported to me and shared this, she said, "But it was really us surviving life together. It was really us getting through the hard transition of going through the divorce and the kids' angst over that. We loved on each other. We cared for each other. It worked for them. It was wonderful. It was a foxhole experience, surviving life."

 

Fast forward. She meets a wonderful guy. He's got a couple of kids of his own. They get married and, you know, her husband's biggest complaint pretty quickly is, "Oh my gosh, she spends an hour and a half in the bedtime ritual with her kids every night." You know, sometimes it was 30 minutes, but often it was an hour to an hour and a half. He said, "I'm sitting out there. My kids are in bed. I'm waiting for some couple time with my wife, feeling unimportant, feeling like I'm left out of this whole mix. But then she comes out and she's so tired. She goes straight to bed. We don't get any time. I'm resenting the children." 

 

Like, okay, so you hear the ritual that was working before the marriage is now working against the marriage now that they're a family. [00:32:24] So what do they do? Well, first of all, they had to talk and listen and hear one another. Mom was defensive of her kids at first, but she finally said, "You know what? I can understand my husband. He's just looking for some time with me. He's not against them." He had to be patient and say, "Look, this ritual is important." 

 

I helped him see her kids really, really need that time with their mother because they've gone through another change. They've lost mom to you and they've lost mom to your kids in some way. Not emotionally, not entirely, but they've lost some of her time. They've lost some of her energy to those people. So they need a little reassurance. Reassurance is a good thing for children. 

 

However, mom, you got to put some limitations on this from a time standpoint. You need to make a statement to your children about the importance of your marriage as well. You got to balance these two things, love your kids and love your husband. It's not either or. It is "both and". So let's work on this. 

 

So they ultimately came together, made some decisions. Mom agreed she needed to start putting time limits on the nighttime ritual. [00:33:26] Guess what that meant? A little angst in the children. Did they push back? Yes. Did they say, mom, did they whine and complain? You bet. So she had to say, I love you, BUT this is what's going to happen. Bedtime ritual is over. I'm walking out the door. I'm going to spend time with my husband. 

 

Those subtle, but very significant changes create familiness. And without that, they're going to be stuck night after night, after night, feeling like they're not together as a couple.

 

Laura Dugger: And it sounds like it takes such discernment. I love how you say "both and" I think that's so apparent in scripture for so many things and just how you're applying it here because both are important. And yet if someone needs help with that discernment right now, I guess we can't give a blanket statement, but would you say the order of priorities typically needs to start with a couple?

 

Ron Deal: Yeah. I would say... and let me be delicate with this because I think sometimes people hear the wrong thing. [00:34:29] So let me talk around it. Yes, ultimately the marriage is a huge priority relationship. When scripture talks about leave father and mother and cleave to your spouse, it's saying shift your allegiance to your new spouse. That does not mean you abandon father and mother, neglect father and mother. When they get old, make them take care of themselves. Stop honoring them. Nope. There's another command in the Bible about honoring father and mother. 

 

So clearly allegiance to your wife does not mean stopping to love and respect parents. It just means your primary allegiance is to your spouse. 

 

The same thing happens if you happen to have children when you get married. You shift primary allegiance to your spouse, but that does not mean you stop caring for kids or neglect kids or abandon kids or stop pouring your time and energy into them, especially during their childhood years. You're going to continue to do all of that and make sure everybody knows till death do you part on this marriage. [00:35:29] Like there has to be that sense of ultimate allegiance.

 

Practically though you're still making sacrifices on the adult level on behalf of children, but there have to be moments in time where, you know, and your partner knows and your kids know this marriage is not going away. It is a deciding relationship within the family system. 

 

The mistake is when people hear, Oh, just love your new spouse and forget about your kids. Nobody's saying that. There's no balance in that. Maintaining the "both and" is how you keep the balance.

 

Laura Dugger: Our team would love to know, has The Savvy Sauce benefited you in any way? Our hope is that your life is enriched just a little bit more after listening and applying lessons from each episode. If you have enjoyed this podcast, would you put your support into action by pledging $2 or even $5 a month to become a patron?

 

You will receive some awesome perks and your contribution will help us offset the production costs for The Savvy Sauce so we can still make the majority of our content free to the public. [00:36:37] We hope you consider partnering with us today. Just visit our website, TheSavvySauce.com, and click on our Patreon tab. Thank you for your participation. 

 

Will you now share how your five Ps apply to step-parents?

 

Ron Deal: Yeah. I think what we've talked about so far is a helpful precursor to this conversation. So five Ps of step parenting.

 

1. Number one, partner, right? So partner with your spouse. That is step-parents, partner with the biological parent because as we've kind of already talked about, the biological parent is the one who sets you up to be successful. They're the ones who communicate to the children, look, this is my husband. He's your stepdad now. 

 

The biological parent does not demand that children love step-parents. Nobody can demand that. Well, we can demand that you be courteous and decent and kind and respect them like you would any other adult authority in your life. [00:37:36] Like a coach on the soccer field, like your teacher in math class, like the youth pastor who takes you on the youth retreat. And you respect that person's authority. You respect a step-parent's authority on day one in our family. Partnering is huge. 

 

2. Number two is pursue. So step parents pursue a relationship with the children. 

 

3. But you need to do it at number three, a pace at which the children can receive it. So those work together, pursue but at a pace that they can receive. 

 

Here's a quick analogy. If I were to ask you, Laura, let's assume COVID is over, pandemic is gone and you have some new neighbors, a couple doors down and you can actually go and meet them. All right? And if I said to you, go make friends, you know, get to know them a little bit, well, what you would not do, I don't think, is walk down and bang on their door and yell at the top of your lungs, "I'm your new BFF. Open up. I'm hungry. I want to get some food out of your refrigerator." 

 

That's not going to help make friends, right? They don't know you. They don't trust you. [00:38:36] They don't understand what you're about and what your motivation is. And so they are not opening that door. 

 

Well, a lot of step-parents pursue at a pace like that. "Hey, I'm your new dad. My way or the highway. You need to act," right? That's going to do nothing to build a relationship, right? They've just slammed the door and double bolt locked it.

 

What you would do if you're going to make friends with the new neighbors, you'd probably knock on the door and be very polite and wait. And if they came to the door and talk through the door, "Hello, who is it?" you'd say, "Well, this is Laura and I'm your neighbor and I just want to invite you to." 

 

You would find some common ground to begin a dialogue in the hopes that they crack the door open. In which case now you got one eyeball. You can see one eye through the crack and you can talk to the eye and hopefully find some more common ground over which they begin to slowly open the door of their heart to you.

 

You get the analogy. You got to pursue at a pace that they will receive. Someday, maybe, you'll be invited into the living room and maybe they'll offer you a drink of water. [00:39:40] That's the culmination of this pursuit. Step-parents get too eager, too fast, and get too anxious about developing this relationship. They push and they inadvertently get themselves pushed away. 

 

4. That brings me to the fourth P, patience. Patience is so very critical because sometimes you sit on the doorstep and knock and they just talk through the door and that's all they're going to give you. I'm thinking of adult children. Dad got married at the age of 70 and he married this new woman. She's nice but she's not my mom and I don't need her in my life. I'm an adult. I got my own life, career, children, stuff I got to be involved in. I don't have time to develop a relationship with Dad's new wife. Now notice that language. Not my stepmom, not my mom, dad's new wife. 

 

That's a distant connection at best for the adult children. They're just not highly motivated to build that connection and they don't need to be. So you have to be patient. That's the bottom line. You can get mad at them, you can be frustrated, you can criticize them all you want, all they're going to do is keep the door shut. [00:40:47] Patience is really important. 

 

5. The next P is persistence. Persistence is that not giving up even if you feel discouraged or frustrated but just noticing this is a long-term journey and you're just going to chip away at it and you're going to stay with the process.

 

That's the five P's. By the way, we do have a bonus P. And that would be prayer. This whole process needs to be bathed in a whole lot of prayer because nobody knows exactly when you should zig or when you should zag, when do you move toward or when do you step back a notch. There's a lot of unknowns. Husband and wife, parent and step-parent put a lot of prayer into this.

 

Laura Dugger: Ron, you've worked with so many blended families. What have you seen as some of the best practices that they've used for overcoming barriers and fostering more peaceful sibling relationships?

 

Ron Deal: When it comes to siblings, I'm quick to tell people and we talk about this in Building Love Together in Blended Families. There's a whole chapter on this. [00:41:49] Just like with step-parents and step-child relationships, you can't force or demand love. That's something two people figure out in their own time, in their own way. They develop that. It comes with trust.

 

So you can't demand love between step-siblings but you can create a climate that makes it more likely that they'll become friends and then eventually figure out how to be siblings. It's just managing climate. With younger children, it's "Hey, hey, hey, hey. We don't slap our sister. We don't treat each other that way. Be nice."

 

Those sorts of practical, honest things. We celebrate one another's victories. We show up for one another's soccer games. We cheer on each other. You can insist, if you will, create a climate where people are involved in the kinds of things that make them on the same team with one another. They'll have to figure out how close they get, how deep that relationship goes. That's entirely up to them. [00:42:50] Time and time spent together will usually facilitate and foster that. 

 

By the way, a simple little fact that I like to share with people about step-sibling relationships. The research is pretty clear that early on in the family journey, step-siblings have less conflict than biological siblings. On the surface, you would hear that and you would go, hey, that's good news. Yeah, it is good news because it's less stuff for you to have to manage or deal with as a parent.

 

But it actually is indicative of the fact that they're less emotionally connected because they don't know each other or trust each other or love each other like they do siblings, they don't necessarily unload on each other, they're kind of nice.

 

It's kind of like when somebody tells you your kid is such a great kid in this classroom at school and you're like, Are you talking about my child? Because they're just a different child with other people, not their own family. Same thing's true between step-siblings.

 

But research shows that as time goes on and as step-sibling relationships deepen, the conflict goes up. [00:43:52] So the irony is the closer they get, the more conflict they may have. That's actually a positive sign instead of a negative one. But of course, you've got to deal with the conflict. So it's a process and you're trying to manage the climate so the process can happen.

 

Laura Dugger: And one other side that we don't often consider is how blended families can now involve maybe three living generations of family members. So how can step-families navigate healthy relationships with the grandparents involved?

 

Ron Deal: Yeah, it's a good question. Again, we've got a whole chapter on grandparenting in this book. I think grandparents have a significant role to play. They can give so many positive messages. They can help children deal with the transitions in and out of a single-parent home into a blended-family home. They're the ones that are there, who are consistent caregivers to grandchildren throughout the different transitions that are taking place. [00:44:51] All of that helps provide a stabilizing factor for kids. 

 

But it also depends on how you become a step-grandparent. So, for example, there's four different types of grandparents or step-grandparents, I should say. Imagine you're in your early 70s and you're a widow and you meet this person who's also a widow and you decide to get married and you're thinking it's just the two of us, life's free. Well, you may bring grandkids and this new spouse may bring grandkids and you immediately become step-grandparents to the other's grandkids and you don't know them from Adam or Eve. Like you don't know these kids at all.

 

You have a loving relationship with your biological grandkids, but now you've got a 15-year-old step-grandson that you don't know or know anything about. And wow, he's had some things exposed to him in his life that you would never want for your grandkids. So all of a sudden it's a hard relationship to develop. You're new on the scene. The 15-year-old didn't ask for you. You didn't ask for him. Right? [00:45:52] 

 

That could create some challenge. And so those five P's come into play. They are still going to apply. You're still going to pursue and pace and be persistent. And all of that is helpful. Knowing the kid's love language and how to approach that with some wisdom. All of that we flesh out in the book is a bonding process that helps step-grandparents. 

 

One important factor here is what we call the middle generation. So the upper generation is the grandparent or step-grandparent, the lower generation is the children and the middle generation is the parents, the adult parents. They make or break whether a step-grandparent can even be involved in somebody's life.

 

So you marry this guy and he has grandchildren. Well, what if his adult children say, Uh-uh, we don't really want you spending time with our kids. Well, then you can't. All of a sudden there's a roadblock there. So you'd have to build a relationship with them first, gain their trust, then you might have access to the step-grandchildren. [00:46:50] So again, multi-layered, multi-generational, multi-household. It can be complex.

 

Laura Dugger: It can be so complex. And yet you've given us so much hope through this chat. So if you had to just boil all of this information down to a single action step, where would you encourage couples to start today?

 

Ron Deal: Well, get smart. All of my materials are called the Smart Stepfamily, the Smart Stepmom, the Smart Stepdad. Smart Stepfamilies is the brand, right? 

 

The smarter you get about driving this vehicle and understanding how it works and how to steer it and navigate it and the maintenance on this motorcycle, the easier it is for you to be successful, to find what you got married for. Right?

 

And so start that journey. And let me tell you, 25 years ago, 27 years ago, when I really started first doing this, people complained to me for a decade and a half, there's nothing available on stepfamily living. And it was true. But it is no longer true. [00:47:53] 

 

We have more materials in audio form and book form and resource and video and more coming out on a regular basis. You have no excuse to learn about this and to get smart, which helps you navigate the journey well and walk with God. 

 

So come see us. Go to Rondeal.org. That's my personal website. You'll have access to everything that I have available through FamilyLife, through Smart Stepfamilies, events, podcasts, social media, all of it. You'll have access to it. Rondeal.org.

 

Laura Dugger: And if this is anybody's first time listening, we always will link to this in both our show notes and on our resources tab of the website, TheSavvySauce.com. But Ron, is there any other place that you would point them to follow you online?

 

Ron Deal: Well, yeah, there's multiple places, social media wise, Facebook, Twitter. But I think it's best if you just go to that one website because then you'll see the vast options. [00:48:56] Some people absorb information through audio. So our podcast, the FamilyLife Blended podcast is a great tool for them. But other people much rather read or watch a video. Well, we kind of have all of those distribution channels available to people, and a lot of them are free. It's a lot of free material. And so I think go to Rondeal.org and then you'll be able to find what works for you.

 

Laura Dugger: Wonderful. I'm excited for people to get started today and find more hope and encouragement. We are called The Savvy Sauce here because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so Ron is my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?

 

Ron Deal: Well, you know, probably one of the most influential things in my life in the last 15 years has been a simple little phrase "What I know about me". I use this all the time in my own personal life. My wife and I use it together in our marriage. We use it in our parenting. I use it with my clients. And I'm teaching it in marriage conferences. 

 

Because essentially what the phrase does, what I know about me, is it puts me in a mode of humility where I begin to reflect what's going on inside of me to the outside world. [00:50:13] So in my marriage, when I find myself frustrated or angry or upset or my wife's upset with me and she comes to me and all of a sudden I want to get defensive to stop and to say, Okay, what I know about me is that I'm feeling defensive and I'm feeling accused.

 

And what I usually do with that is I push back on you and I argue with you, honey, because I want you to like me, but that never works because then that just makes you more angry. And so what I'm not going to do is I'm not going to push back. I just want to hear you. I want to try to absorb this and understand a little bit better. And then I'm going to try to just affirm what you're about to say. 

 

Now, if I go to the trouble of saying all of that out loud, a couple of things happen. Number one, I get my heart in the right place. I put on my humility and I'm called by God to put on humility. Then and only then... by the way, the brain science behind this is fascinating. Then and only then, Laura, am I calm enough to actually use all the skills and things that I've learned through the years and tools that I have in my emotional relational toolbox. [00:51:21] If I don't calm down and put on humility, I will never use the tools. So that's number one.

 

Number two, if I go to the trouble of saying all that out loud, my wife now knows Ron just put on his humility. I don't have to worry about him being defensive or argumentative like he used to be because now I know he's managing himself. So I just need to manage myself. 

 

And guess what happens? She stops being a little more focused on me and a little more focused on herself, and we now have two people who have put on humility and are trying to walk correctly and rightfully before God and with each other in a loving way. And the odds of us finding our way through that conflict have gone up tremendously. It's still conflict. It's still uncomfortable. That's life. But with a little humility, at least we're not against each other. We're more on each other's side. What I know about me, that's the tool I'm using more and more these days. [00:52:22] 

 

Laura Dugger: I love it. Such a memorable phrase. Ron, I just want to say thank you for your faithful work in this space and thank you for teaching us more about God's grace today. I truly appreciated having you as my guest.

 

Ron Deal: Thank you, Laura. It's been an honor to be with you.

 

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

 

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. [00:53:24] 

 

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. 

 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? [00:54:23] We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. 

 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. 

 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?

 

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. 

 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. 

 

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. [00:55:27] 

 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.