106 Answering Listeners Questions about Sex with Kelli Willard

*DISCLAIMER* This episode contains adult themes and is not intended for little ears. 

 

106. Answering Listener’s Questions About Sex with Kelli Willard

 

**Transcription Below**

 

Romans 14:19 (BSB) “So then, let us pursue what leads to peace and to mutual edification.” 

 

Kelli Willard is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and is a pro-neurodiversity professional with 10 years experience counseling individuals and couples north of Atlanta. She's a proud mommy to two young children with colorful brains, and describes her own brain as "colorful" as well. When Kelli's not in the therapy room, or with her family, she's writing her upcoming book, "My Colorful Brain: A Neurodivergent Identity Workbook." Follow her on Instagram @love_all_the_brains or on the web at www.loveallthebrains.com and www.intimatemarriage.org. 

 

At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. 

 

Celebration of Sex by Dr. Douglas Rosenau

Restoring the Pleasure by Dr. Clifford and Joyce Penner

Building Intimate Marriages Website (770)822-4505

The Porn Trap by Wendy Maltz

Your Brain on Porn by Gary Wilson

Connect with Kelli: kelli@intimatemarriage.org

 

Thank You to Our Sponsor: Samaritan Ministries

 

Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website

 

Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!

 

Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

 

[00:00:18] <music>

 

Laura Dugger: Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message. 

 

Samaritan Ministries offers a biblical solution to health care, connecting you with other Christians who will support you spiritually and financially when you experience a medical need. Learn more at SamaritanMinistries.org. 

 

Kelli Willard is a Christian sex therapist, and she's going to answer all of our listener questions today.

 

Here's our chat. 

 

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Kelli. 

 

Kelli Willard: Hi.

 

Laura Dugger: We're so excited to have you. Can you just start us off today by sharing a bit more about yourself, your family, and your work?

 

Kelli Willard: Well, yes, I've been licensed as a marriage and family therapist now in the state of Georgia, practicing for about 10 years, married 16 years to my total and complete opposite. [00:01:21] We are different on paper in every way possible. Meaning that if you score us on tests like the Myers-Briggs or Enneagram or any of these popular tests, we will really peg out quite dramatically on the different ends of the spectrum there. 

 

It has been quite a learning experience to come to an acceptance of we will never be truly satisfied, I guess, with sort of the way that the other person takes in information or gives out information. And that's okay because together we form this real power couple because of our differences. 

 

I have two children. I have a boy who is about to be eight and a daughter who just turned six, and they are little reflections of my husband and I in various ways, although they do have certain challenges that are a little different than us. So I have a very happy, exciting, challenging life here north of Atlanta. [00:02:20] 

 

Laura Dugger: That's awesome to get just a little glimpse of your husband and your two kids.

 

I'm so grateful that our paths crossed way back when we met at Richmont Graduate University in Atlanta. For anyone who doesn't know our stories, the two of us actually studied the same thing, which was Marriage and Family Therapy with a specialization in Christian Sex Therapy. 

 

I know that a question that often comes up when you meet someone new is, how did you decide to become a certified sex therapist? 

 

Kelli Willard: Well, I was one of those kids who very early on found school to be my refuge, and so I was able to just love school and love learning from a very early age. I sort of embraced my nerdiness quite early, and from that came the application to be in the International Baccalaureate Program, the IB program, where you were allowed to sort of specialize, for lack of a better word, in high school, and I chose psychology. [00:03:21] 

 

And I very soon, in 10th grade, realized that I was sort of electively choosing to write all my papers in psychology about sex, and it was interesting to me. It was something that I had no experience with, to clarify. I just was very interested in interactions, particularly sexual interactions, between people. 

 

So I just sort of thought, If I wasn't going to be a famous opera singer, which was also something I thought I wanted to do, that I would be a psychologist or be a therapist, specifically a sex therapist. I just kind of knew that. 

 

Laura Dugger: Now that you're in this field, what has amazed or even shocked you the most? 

 

Kelli Willard: I think probably the amazing thing that continues to hit me time and time again after 10 years of sitting with people in their pain and hearing their stories is that we are all so uniquely different, but at our core we are the same. 

 

We want the same things. [00:04:20] We want to be seen, and we want to be heard, and we want to be loved, and we want to give the love that we have in our hearts to another person. And we want that to be a fair dynamic and a just dynamic and a joyful dynamic.

 

Laura Dugger: Throughout all of these episodes, we will put things out there about once a month around sex, especially with a biblical worldview or perspective. And so we're just going to go through quite a few different topics that people have asked about. 

 

So let's just start. I think everyone's curious about the clients who come to see you. What are some of the common stories you hear or the common problems that present for clients who are seeking Christian sex therapy? 

 

Kelli Willard: The most common thing that comes into my office is concern about desire differences, where perhaps at the beginning of the relationship the couple decided together to abstain from sex, and then they're married now, and so everything is on the table, so to speak, and so they're wondering why the desire, particularly for the female, hasn't really caught up to speed. [00:05:31] Because newsflash, desire is not necessarily a switch that you can turn on or off. 

 

Or the couple has been married for quite some time, and they experienced maybe a very high desire, both together, male and female, at the beginning of the marriage, and then that has sort of had a leveling-off effect, whether it be for the female or for the male or both, where life has just gotten in the way, really, and busyness has taken over, children and time and energy levels, and so there is this big difference where one person's desire is either starting to awaken again, or maybe it's just always been high from the beginning, or maybe it's always been low from the beginning, and they're just wondering, am I normal? Is this normal? 

 

We know that we could be doing this better, but we don't know how to fix this. We don't know how to talk about what we would like from this sexual experience together, and what is okay to do together and experience together

 

Laura Dugger: One person wrote in and asked, how can a female focus during sex if she says that she's thinking about every single distraction? [00:06:39] How would you respond to that? 

 

Kelli Willard: I would say that that is a very common concern in my office for the majority of females that I work with, particularly those with ADD. But I think it's part of just how the female brain is wired. And I know that's not comforting for me to say. Although maybe it is. 

 

I do seek to validate this person and to say that there's nothing inherently broken about you. There is nothing wrong with you that your body has less testosterone than your husband, which then drives, for most men, the initiating effect of playfully inviting their partner to sex and then being able to sort of zero in on the experience.

 

That is part testosterone and part brain wiring for him if that is part of his brain type. He may be ADHD and have trouble focusing too. 

 

So to go back to this female kind of question, I think there is a special imperative that we have as women to learn how to breathe and have a certain level of comfort with our bodies, including our brains, to be able to put ourself present in the moment and to be not just okay with what's happening as long as it's emotionally safe and physically safe, of course, but to be excited maybe about what's happening or just the potential of what's happening. [00:07:55] 

 

Which statistically for women, if we're looking at the data, may not come in the experience, the sexual experience, until about a little bit in, you know, 10, 15, 20 minutes in to sort of have women respond, okay, yes, now I'm focused, now I'm in it.

 

You know, to give yourself that grace of there may be a buffer period for every sexual experience or the most of sexual experiences where it's going to be a concentrated effort to sort of put yourself in the noticing business of attention to the five senses. What am I seeing, what am I smelling, what am I tasting, what am I touching, what am I hearing?

 

Are those things that are accelerating for me and putting me in the spirit of the connection time or are these going to be breaks for me? Are they going to take me away from the experience for logical reasons? 

 

Maybe there is not enough privacy in the room, maybe you're noticing with your eyes visually that the door is open and you have children in the house sleeping. It's a very simple way to not be labeling yourself as, oh, so distracted, but maybe reframe that as, well, I'm going to do something practical for the situation, secure my privacy, bring my focus back to then what else am I seeing? [00:09:04] Oh, yeah, there's my husband. Oh, yeah, there I am. I'm seeing myself touching his face.

 

Laura Dugger: Now moving to another listener, someone asked, how is my struggle with body image affecting my intimacy in marriage?

 

Kelli Willard: I was going to say there's a lot there that's very individualized. So I can speak to sort of a conglomerate of women. For some women, it will go as far as to be a sexual dysfunction in that their body just stops responding. 

 

If they're not fully present and fully okay with their bodies and okay with their husband's bodies and okay with what is happening, then there can be an effect where penetration can be impossible even because the muscles will spasm in the vaginal area, the pelvic floor area, and result in what we call vaginismus. That can be an extreme form of a body image issue sort of taking over and then interrupting what could be a very pleasant experience. [00:10:06] 

 

Or it could be very minor. It could be a thought that kind of comes and goes of, Well, am I pretty? Am I not? Is he thinking I'm pretty? Oh, I hope he's not looking at my stretch marks. 

 

It could be anywhere on the range from a distraction to a dysfunction. All of these things are important because there's a lot in between there. But I would want to talk to that person and see, well, how do you see this show up? 

 

Is it something where your negative self-talk is really driving the experience for you and robbing you of joy? Or is it something that you're actively coping with and it's only every now and then that it gets you? Or does it just shut you down completely to where you don't want to engage or when you do try to engage, your body is not responding?

 

Laura Dugger: Another person wrote in and asked, is there any science behind the use it or lose it mentality?

 

Kelli Willard: There is a very common saying we have as Christian sex therapists that a sex life at rest tends to stay at rest and a sex life in motion tends to stay in motion. [00:11:05] And so there is some truth that if you're not using intentionality and nurturing your sex life with your husband, then there will be an effect there of either emotional distancing. 

 

Maybe you're just not feeling attached to each other because your bodies aren't attaching regularly, or maybe some walls start and resentments start building up or maybe some old negative self-talk creeps in about, well, does he want me or not? Do I want him or not? Or are we even in love? This really can spiral out of control very quickly for some people.

 

But I don't think that you'll ever forget how to engage together. I think there's always a way to sort of remember those pleasant sensations that you have and to revive them with some new creative lovemaking strategies over the years, even if it's been a long time since you've connected. 

 

The hope is that when you do connect, you're connecting in creative, playful, loving ways that are honoring to both of you. And you can sort of explore how to get that ball rolling again together in ways, like I said, that are honoring to both of you. [00:12:09] 

 

Laura Dugger: I think that actually ties into... I'll combine a few of these questions. You're talking about being playful and creative. Multiple people wrote in and said things like, do you have any creative ways to have sex, especially when the kids are at home? Or do you have any creative tips for how to connect and have more fun sexually in our marriage?

 

Kelli Willard: Yes. And so much of this is about attitudes and the attitude that you bring to the experience. Because if you are in the right mindset for play, you've already won. If you're in that mindset and your husband says, well, why don't we try this creative thing that's out of your typical wheelhouse or something? If you're in the mind of play, you can sort of laugh together about it, even if the answer is no. And no always means no. 

 

But the point is that you're able to sort of creatively come up with things together that are creative solutions. They don't have to be just so bonkers, bananas crazy. [00:13:08] It could just be as simple as, "Well, the children are upstairs and we actually found ourselves in the basement. We usually have sex in our room, but there is this guest room here. The kids are old enough and safe and watching a movie. We have 30 minutes. Why don't we go in this different room?"

 

That's a creative solution, a flexible solution, that if you're in the attitude of play, you can see this is a potential fun thing. If you're in the attitude or if this triggers for you, be it from dynamics of your relationship or from your past, if this triggers a level of unsafety for you, then you're going to have a hard time getting into the attitude of play and attention needs to be paid to that instead of just criticizing yourself or allowing yourself to be criticized by the other person for being a stick in the mud. There's something real happening there to pay attention to.

 

So that's one of the things is to just adopt attitude of play whenever possible so that you can creatively think of things together and just be open to the different suggestions that you come up with. [00:14:09] Because I think you're more flexible than you think. It's just that you're probably used to shooting things down pretty often for a lot of reasons and we need to take this into a sort of a safe zone when it's not in the heat of the moment, in safe conversations outside of the bedroom to say, Wow, what does play mean for you? We always kind of do this. What about this? 

 

Or maybe we're in a season of life where we do need to schedule in order to then be playful. And so it's just sort of figuring that out, how you can get into that right attitude space.

 

Laura Dugger: And now a brief message from our sponsor. 

 

Sponsor: Thank you to today's sponsor, Samaritan Ministries. We know that God's love is steadfast and true. He cares for us as we are called to care for one another. Samaritan Ministries connects hundreds of thousands of Christians across the nation who care for one another through prayer, encouragement, and financial support for medical needs. 

 

As a Samaritan member, when a healthcare need arises, you get to choose the doctor, hospital, and pharmacy that works best for you and your family. [00:15:16] You also have access to resources that can help you choose a provider, price medical procedures, and get medical advice before you visit the doctor. 

 

Each month, Samaritan members send their financial gift directly to a member who has a medical need. They pray for them and they send a note of encouragement, all while reflecting God's love and care. Members then use the money they receive to pay their healthcare providers directly. 

 

You can find comfort in the prayers, encouragement, and direct financial support from other members who strive to minister to all aspects of your health care need, spiritual, emotional, physical, and financial. New members are always welcome. Learn more at SamaritanMinistries.org.

 

Laura Dugger: Changing gears here, someone else asks, what are some benefits for married couples who are connecting frequently? [00:16:15] 

 

Kelli Willard: Well, what they're doing for their relationship is they're establishing a really healthy buffer of good emotional feelings and connectiveness that they can draw upon when they're not being sexual. Everyone gets irritated with each other. And so if you are irritated with your spouse, and I'm talking about annoyances, not abuse, you can remind yourself, This is the person that I share a special bond with. This is the person that knows my body and accepts my body and who is capable of helping me to feel really good.

 

You kind of build that John Gottman, he's a marriage researcher, that ratio of five positive experiences to every one negative experience that this researcher has found sort of tends to keep a couple afloat and reporting that they're satisfied in marriage. 

 

And so if you're having some good sexual experiences, then boom, that goes into your five positive kind of category. And hopefully, you're talking lovingly to each other and you're doing acts of service and all those other love language things. [00:17:14] 

 

So if the one negative annoyance or even some struggles and challenges happens in your marriage, you can have that buffer. It's just a touch point, a literal touch point that you have that we like each other, we're emotionally and physically safe with each other, and we can draw upon that bond when we need it.

 

Laura Dugger: Here's another question. What are some common practices that you see in couples who are enjoying a fulfilling and meaningful sex life in marriage?

 

Kelli Willard: These are couples who can do the separation between work and play. These are the couples that are able to have either a working date once a week or some regular time of doing sort of the work of marriage of, okay, what's our schedule look like? Who's taking the kids here? What are we doing? They're doing the business, the finances. They're doing things as well as you can.

 

And then they're having times too where they're just able to forget about all of that stress and just go and ride go-karts. [00:18:15] Or these are couples that put sex in that category of play and just sort of release and enjoyment of each other, and they're able to contain the two. 

 

When they're having sex, they're able to kind of put their mind in the place of the five senses of the experience and enjoying the connection, and they're able to communicate and coach each other if needed, and they're able to work through any challenge they have there and just enjoy each other, which may or may not result in orgasm. It just results in oneness. 

 

They can keep sort of the work, the business, out of that sacred space. And likewise, when they're working, they're not playing. When they're working, they are doing the business stuff, and there's no bleedover. 

 

So these are also couples that have it figured out for childcare, which is not an easy thing at all, and they are carving out privacy for themselves, whether or not it's an actual babysitter or maybe it's just there's a certain time of day where they know the kids are going to sleep through the night. Or maybe it's during the day when the kids are at school. [00:19:19] There's a way that they've figured out the privacy component.

 

The last thing I'll mention is they've figured out how to manage their personal energy levels, whether it's choosing a time of day where they're more energetic or just to be able to talk about, well, okay, after this time of night, closed for business, but this time of day, open for business. 

 

You know, there's a way that they've been able to talk about when they have energy and to be able to give those invitations and refusals, no is okay, with respect back and forth and attention to the data that the other person is giving them about their energy levels and what they need to feel private and whatnot. 

 

They've kind of figured some of that out, and they have a little formula, and they go with it, and they're flexible to change it if they need to. 

 

Laura Dugger: How do you tell your spouse you want more in the bedroom without sounding like your sex together isn't great?

 

Kelli Willard: Well, there is an old technique that is not necessarily a therapy technique. [00:20:20] It was probably in pop culture somewhere, but I love it. I will sometimes joke with my clients quite frequently because this is a sacred topic, but it is also a very fun topic. 

 

So I usually coach the sandwich method to where the top slice of bread is a compliment, the meat of the sandwich is what you'd like to change or something more or better or different. Even a complaint can go in there. And then the bottom bread is another compliment.

 

So an example would be, "Honey, I love it when we kiss each other. We've been married for X amount of years, and we're still kissing. That's great. I love your kisses. You know, sometimes they can be a little sloppy for me." Here, I'm getting into the meat of it. "I don't want you to kiss this area or that. Can we change this, that, or the other? "You're a great husband. I really appreciate how you washed the dishes the other day for me. That spoke my love language."

 

There is a way that you can approach these topics by leading with some strengths and positivity and then linking that to something that could be improved from your perspective. [00:21:22] 

 

And the person is going to be a little bit more receptive. Like, Oh, okay, yeah, she is recognizing the things that I do well, and we have some common ground there. Yeah, I like kissing too. You know, we're starting from a place of togetherness and strength, and that puts us in a great position to be able to flexibly troubleshoot that meat portion, even if it's sort of a hot topic.

 

You've primed the pump there for the conversation to go well. And as long as the other person isn't too defensive, you should be able to have a pretty good conversation, and then you're going to end on a positive note and hopefully some gratitude for the conversation taking place on both parts. 

 

One, the husband is thankful for the assertiveness of the wife, and two, then the wife is thankful that she's been assertive, of course, and also that hopefully the husband has been flexible and listening. That can sometimes take a lot of support in a third party to be present, to be able to negotiate and talk without, like I mentioned, those high levels of defensiveness or feeling attacked or just having a very low sense of self-esteem that if someone mentions something about your sexual performance or your body or something like that, that you just crumble. [00:22:30] So some people will need some extra support there, and that's okay.

 

Laura Dugger: This next question is the most common one that we get, and it's always worded in a different way, so I'll just choose one way. Recently somebody asked, what is a good frequency in sex?

 

Kelli Willard: A good frequency of sex is going to be when you and your spouse can say on any given day, kind of, we're connected, we're bonded, we're a team, and sex is part of that. So if that's that you connect and have a healthy, loving, mutual sexual experience where you experience bondedness and oneness once a week, once a month, twice a week, every other week, three times a week. You get me here, there's variation. 

 

As long as you are saying in times of non-sexual, not just in the bedroom, but if I polled you, if I called you up and said, hey, how do you feel about your spouse? If you were able to say, "Oh, my spouse and I, we're a team, we're pretty connected most of the time... And you know what, sex is a part of that," then I would say, well, you've probably hit a really good frequency. Because sex is kind of on your mind, you're including that as part of your bond. [00:23:46] 

 

And I would say if you're not able to say that, unless there's some pain and trauma there that we need to get at that's just very logical, of course, sex wouldn't be in that healthy zone for you yet, then I would say, Okay, well, maybe let's look at your frequency. 

 

Are you tapping into this resource in your marriage to experience oneness and bondedness enough? Is it enough of a priority for you in your marriage that it would sort of be on your mind when I talked about togetherness? 

 

Some of that is cultural, too. In the South, we don't just talk sex. So some of that is just maybe sex isn't really super on your mind, no matter how, quote-unquote, frequent it is. But I would just, in a therapy setting, use that sort of as a clinical gauge. Are you experiencing oneness on some level of regularity to be able to include sex as part of your bond?

 

Laura Dugger: And I'll ask one follow-up question for that. Is there any even amount on either extreme that you would caution clients? Let's say there is no trauma, there is no sexual abuse. [00:24:48] Is there a gauge that you see of this may be too frequent or too infrequent?

 

Kelli Willard: Yes. Just from clinical experience only here of 10 years of listening to stories, as a practitioner, I always have a little bit of a pause when I hear things like, Oh, we connect sexually everyday or every other day. Because in my experience... and remember, people aren't really coming to a sex therapist when things are just going great. 

 

So there may be people out there listening that are able to connect every day and want that, and it's both very mutual. They both want that. 

 

But from my experience, when I hear that level of very frequent connection every day, multiple times a day, every other day, that's a lot. I would say, is this something that is both mutually desired, or is this kind of in the line of a duty sex, or is one person kind of feeling like they need to do this in order for the other person to be in a good mood, or are they using that as sort of like a temperature gauge of their relationship, or on the very extreme end, is this sort of compulsive in that...? Sometimes I hear, "Well, he can't go to sleep without it, and so I just do this, and I'm kind of feeling like his sleeping pill." [00:26:00] 

 

So then I would caution whether or not that is truly for oneness and bonding, or is that for some other purpose? Are you just trying to get to sleep? Are you trying to scratch a compulsive itch kind of? Is this something that you feel like you need to or you were told one time you had to, otherwise it would indicate that you just are going to fall apart or that he or she would stray elsewhere, which are frequent lies that we sometimes tend to believe, or maybe are even explicitly taught about our role as a wife, that we have to do this to keep a man or something. And I would just sort of challenge that frequency. Is it really serving the purpose of oneness that sex is desired for by God? 

 

And then infrequent, I would say that really varies because there are some couples that will connect monthly or every other month and report a very stable, wonderful marriage and sex life, and it's maybe due to aging or physical concerns or whatever it might be. There might be a disability involved or just season of life where their priorities are kind of elsewhere. [00:27:01] And even if sex was on the top of their list, they're okay with that level of intimacy. 

 

So there is no right or wrong here, but I do just like the kind of quote-unquote too frequent sex, I would question that couple where it was kind of once a month or every other month or something. I would kind of question to say, are we missing out on some opportunities maybe to connect more? Are you truly satisfied with this? But I won't dictate that for anybody. They may be perfectly fine with that.

 

Laura Dugger: I think that's great to have a helpful guide on either end. You speak to so many people there.

 

You seriously do not want to miss out on our Patreon guests. One example from last September is Tracey LeGrand's episode, which discusses the science of female orgasm. She also shares how couples can enjoy a more pleasure-filled sex life, and she brings some scripture to life in a new way I've never considered. 

 

Please don't miss out.  Pledge $5 today and receive this episode in addition to many others when you visit thesavvysauce.com and click on our "Patreon" tab. [00:28:07] Then click "Join Patreon here". We think you're going to love it. 

 

Someone else wrote in and said, How do we help our kids not be inhibited about sex when they are married?

 

Kelli Willard: Well, I would say what you do in front of your kids matters, and so please keep healthy boundaries, obviously. But I'm talking about the little kisses on the cheek, the hugs that you give each other as parents. How you show your children that you love their father is really important so that then they are learning... And I'm speaking as a wife here, so I'm just speaking to the women for just a minute. Obviously, this applies to men, too, in loving their wives. 

 

But what you model to them is what they are going to see as, quote-unquote, normal, is going to form sort of a template in their minds of what then their expectations in their own marriage is going to be. [00:29:05] 

 

So I don't want the single parents out there listening to think, "Oh, I've just completely ruined my child. I'm not in a healthy dynamic of healthy remarriage with anybody, and so they're not seeing anything, and all they're going to remember is all this pain. They've never seen me kiss in a loving way with their father." 

 

I don't want to induce shame by this conversation because in that case of the single parent, I would say there's just going to be a lot of good conversations with the child about what is healthy and vision casting and whatnot.

 

But if you're in a dynamic where you're a married partner, I would just think about how are we modeling affection to each other through our kisses, through our hugs, and they will then internalize some of that as sort of normal. 

 

I would think, how do I show affection to my child in an appropriate way? Am I free with my hugs, and am I paying attention to consent? Maybe I'm not a hugger, and so I show my love in different ways. [00:30:02] But if I am a hugger and my child isn't, I'm just not going to barrel through and hug because I want them to have a healthy marriage someday. No, that's not respecting that child's body.

 

First and foremost, you're respecting that child's body autonomy, and you're paying attention to their physical touch needs, and you're seeking to kind of be responsive to that, and you're modeling too. If you're not a hugger but they are, it's okay to tell your kids, you know, Mommy's not feeling like a hug right now. How about we do a high five instead?

 

And so you're setting them up for some good communication about physical touch in the future with their spouse, which then paves a really good foundation for them in the marriage.

 

Laura Dugger: Kelli, you've done an incredible job not knowing these questions ahead of time and just being willing to engage with these different members of the audience. So thank you for that. If anybody's listening and they want to follow up with you online, or even if they want to make an appointment with you, where would you direct them? [00:31:02] 

 

Kelli Willard: Yes, I work for Building Intimate Marriages in North Atlanta. So we have a website, IntimateMarriage.org, and I can be reached personally at my email, Kelli@intimateMarriage.org. Our phone number is (770) 822-4505. I'm sure you'll put this all in the show notes.

 

But you can find more information about our practice there. We have lots of free resources and exciting things if you're not in our area. But we hope if you're local to us that you'll come see us.

 

Laura Dugger: Thank you for that, in case anyone wants to follow up. I just have one final question for you today. We're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And we would love to know from you, Kelli, what is your savvy sauce?

 

Kelli Willard: I would say that God has designed each and every one of us with a beautiful uniqueness that reflects Him and also is so powerful in order to connect interpersonally with other people. [00:32:08] So in our marriage, that is just such a special opportunity. 

 

If we can start to know ourselves and love ourselves and show our spouse parts of us, our inner workings, and give them the opportunity to be themselves too, you're going to have some powerful sex because that sex is going to be an outflow of that verbal communication that you're having back and forth about, Here's who I am. Oh, I love how you are. Oh, yes, I married you for this. And then your bodies are going to follow that.

 

So that emotional connection really can breed some really powerful physical connection. And I just want to send encouragement that we can all learn to love ourselves better and how God created us and be more authentic more often with our spouse and let them be authentic too.

 

Laura Dugger: Well, this time has been incredibly informative. Thank you so much for being my guest today. [00:33:08] 

 

Kelli Willard: Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Anytime you want me to answer questions, I'm here.

 

Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

 

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

 

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. [00:34:13] This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. 

 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. 

 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. 

 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. [00:35:15] We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?

 

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. 

 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. 

 

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." [00:36:16] The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. 

 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.